Lean Bulk to Gain Muscle at 68 Despite Shoulder Issues | Ep 329
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"You're too old to build muscle."
"With injuries like that, you should stop lifting weights."
Have you heard these discouraging statements from doctors, trainers, or well-meaning friends, either yourself or older adults in your life?
We are shattering these harmful myths through the journey of my client Beth, who at 68 years old is successfully building muscle despite dealing with a significant shoulder injury.
If you've been told that age means you can't build muscle anymore or that injuries mean you should abandon your fitness goals, this episode will change your perspective.
Beth reveals exactly how she's adapting her training around medical limitations, why prioritizing muscle growth before fat loss has been revolutionary, and the specific techniques allowing her to gain muscle despite challenges that might sideline others.
Main Takeaways:
Why building muscle is not only possible but essential after 60
How to adapt training around injuries without sacrificing progress
The mindset shift needed when transitioning from years of dieting to muscle building
Why strength training becomes more important, not less, as we age
How to balance strength training with other activities like cycling
Timestamps:
0:01 - Building muscle after 60 despite shoulder injuries
4:50 - History with "traditional" dieting (Weight Watchers, Nutrisystem, etc.)
6:53 - How thyroid medication changes affected her metabolism
15:49 - Dealing with shoulder injuries (SLAP lesion and rotator cuff issues)
19:21 - Training modifications for shoulder limitations
24:44 - Psychological benefits of being strong at any age
26:56 - How she gained mostly muscle and dropped body fat without having to lose weight
31:01 - How strength training enhances her cycling performance
35:02 - Strategies for balancing strength training, biking, and recovery
46:54 - Advice for older adults hesitant about strength training
47:58 - Beth's 94-year-old mother who lifts weights
Join WWPU (Wits & Weights Physique University) free for 2 weeks!
Over 60 Lean Bulking (Even After an Injury!)
Most people assume muscle growth stops after 40. Some push it to 50, but 60? Forget about it. And if you’ve got an injury on top of that, you’re expected to sit down, slow down, and give up.
That’s exactly why this story matters.
In this episode, I talk to Beth, a 68-year-old member of my coaching program, who’s doing the opposite of what most people her age are told to do. She’s not cutting calories. She’s not overdoing cardio. She’s not trying to get “toned.” Instead, she’s lean bulking. Purposefully adding calories. Training with structure. Working around a shoulder injury. And most importantly, building muscle.
If you’ve ever questioned whether it’s possible to change your physique later in life or thought your medical limitations were a hard stop, this one will change your mind.
The power of a lean bulk (yes, even postmenopause)
Beth didn’t start from scratch. She was already active. She had tracked macros. She’d used MacroFactor. She’d done P90X. She’d ridden bikes, run races, and counted Weight Watchers points in the past. But she hit a wall. Despite everything she “knew,” her weight kept creeping up and her metabolism felt like it was in freefall.
That’s when she reached out and we changed the strategy.
Instead of cutting, we focused on muscle. Instead of lowering calories, we raised them. That’s when things shifted.
Her lean mass increased. Her energy returned. Her lifts improved. And her body looked and felt stronger than it had in years—even though her body weight was technically the highest it had ever been.
Why? Because she finally had the inputs aligned for growth. Not just physical growth, but metabolic, mental, and emotional growth. She was doing something most women her age are never told is even an option.
What if you’re injured?
Beth’s shoulder pain wasn’t minor. We’re talking SLAP tear, tendinopathy, and osteoarthritis. Her ortho told her no overhead pressing, no lat pulldowns, no reaching behind her back.
But she didn’t quit.
Instead, we modified. Machines replaced barbells. She discovered the safety squat bar. She limited bench range of motion and used a Smith machine to find pain-free angles. She took the pressure off perfection and focused on consistency.
That decision alone is something most people miss. Training around pain is better than not training at all. It’s not about what you can’t do. It’s about what you can do.
And Beth is living proof of that.
Her results speak for themselves
Body weight: up 3 pounds
Lean mass: up 4 pounds
Strength: steadily increasing
Confidence: through the roof
Lifestyle: more active than ever
Even with shoulder limitations, her leg strength is better. Her biking feels easier. She can lift her own bike, carry a case of water, and do things she couldn’t years ago. She’s prepping for a biking vacation this fall and training like someone half her age. And she’s doing it all with intention and control.
Why this matters for YOU
If you’re over 40, 50, or 60, it is absolutely still worth chasing strength. You can build muscle. You can reshape your body. You can avoid the trap of yo-yo dieting and the long-term consequences of constant restriction.
Beth’s story is a reminder that lean bulking is not just for young guys. It’s for women. It’s for older adults. It’s for anyone who wants to regain control of their health and performance.
And yes, there’s always a way to work around your limitations if you have the right mindset and coaching.
If you want to join a community that supports that kind of transformation, where the people lift each other up (literally and figuratively), check out Physique University. You’ll find people like Beth who aren’t interested in the latest fad—they’re interested in what works.
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Transcript
Philip Pape: 0:01
If you think it's impossible to build muscle after 60, or 50, or even 40, or injuries mean you have to abandon your fitness goals, think again. My client, beth, has not only embraced a lean bulk at 68 years old, but is succeeding despite a complex shoulder injury. In today's conversation, you'll discover how she's adapted her training around medical limitations, why prioritizing muscle growth before fat loss has been a game changer for her results and the exact strategies that are working when other approaches failed. If you are dealing with age-related concerns, recovering from injury or tired of yo-yo dieting, beth's approach proves it's never too late to transform your physique with the right strategy. Welcome to Wits and Weights, the show that helps you build a strong, healthy physique using evidence, engineering and efficiency.
Philip Pape: 0:58
I'm your host, philip Haith, and I've got something special for you today, because I'm sitting down with Beth, a member of our Physique University community who is challenging conventional wisdom about fitness after 60. At 68 years old, she is navigating a significant shoulder injury while purposefully building muscle mass, and that is a strategy that contradicts much of what she'd been told throughout her life and many of you have probably heard. Today we're going to talk about how she's adapting her training around those limitations, the mindset shifts that have been critical to her progress, and the specific techniques that are allowing her to gain muscle despite challenges that might have sidelined others. We'll also get into some real-time coaching to optimize her approach going forward and give you some takeaways to apply regardless of your age or your limitations. Beth, very excited that we can do this together, so thank you for joining me.
Beth: 1:49
Thank you for having me Excited to do it.
Philip Pape: 1:52
Yeah, yeah, no, it's great. I'm excited for the listeners to learn about how you've done this, because there are definitely a lot of naysayers and there's a lot of frustration out there, and you've experienced some of that. Right, you've spent most of your life trying different diets, weight loss approaches and now, at the young age of 68, you are focused on building muscle and not just necessarily cutting calories. What made you decide to pursue muscle building at this stage, instead of focusing on what you did before or on weight loss or anything else?
Beth: 2:25
at this stage, instead of focusing on what you did before or on weight loss or anything else. Muscle building is actually not totally new to me. I actually used to lift weights in my 20s. I've always been very active, but then I switched, I suppose like a lot of people, and did more cardio. I suppose like a lot of people, and did more cardio, and I say I've always been active. It's. It has changed and evolved over different times. I've been a runner. I did some triathlons in my thirties. I do a lot of bike riding right now and I'm planning for a bike riding vacation and that's part of my decision-making in in trying to put on some muscle and to do a building phase versus um dieting. But uh, also did P90X about 10 or 15 years ago when that was on the phrase.
Philip Pape: 3:23
I remember that that was so much fun.
Beth: 3:26
I've done a lot of different things and I've been listening to Philip on the just following the hard details of what's going on and trying to figure out what's going on versus just cut calories, yeah, so very interested in following all that, so decided to join. But I, of course, was wanting to lose some fat. I had previously, was about 10 or 15 pounds lighter and I've had some changes in thyroid medications and some different things and the weight has accumulated and I wanted to knock it off and I wanted to knock it off.
Philip Pape: 4:25
Cool yeah, all right, no, we're going to. I want to get into each of those, because listeners are like Ooh, thyroid, let's talk that. Oh, you did P90X, and what are you talking about? Following the details and doing the science? So, uh, you know, you and I know what it is. But let's, let's walk through one at a time. Um, I, I, we've talked in the past and I know you've done I think you've done Weight Watchers, nutrisystem, all of that in the past. When was that? And then, from there to now, how did you, how did you get where you are today?
Beth: 4:50
Weight Watchers was, probably has has been, a part of my life. I've never been grossly overweight, though, but you know, like everybody, you're always especially women we want to be thin and lean, um and um. I always thought Weight Watchers was very healthy, but I also learned there's ways to, uh, to get around that, and I'm tired of the. I didn't like the whole point system and tired of the. I didn't like the whole point system and and doing all that, and I've tried to educate myself on on being healthy. I want to be my healthiest as I age and, um, I've been I've actually been counting macros for a few years now. Um, so I know how to do that and I kind of liked it.
Beth: 5:46
But, like all people, it's like I feel like I know how to do it and what I'm supposed to be doing, but it was still the weight. The weight gain was still getting away from me, and I don't want to throw the thyroid out again, but with the change in thyroid medicines and I've used macro factor, I was just seeing my expenditure go crashing down. So you know, I was eating 1900 calories a year ago and biking and doing things. I was lifting weights a year ago, but maybe not as consistently or following a plan as well as I am now, and I can't eat 1900 calories without gaining a lot of weight. And I just watched that expenditure a macro factor coming down and watched my weight going up and it's like things are changing and I need to get a hold of this.
Philip Pape: 6:53
Yeah, so awareness is the first step, right, and that leads. That makes me think what, when you were tracking macros in the past and you were still gaining weight and that wasn't what you wanted, were you? I assume you weren't using macro factor or you weren't aware of your expenditure, perhaps such that you were at maintenance or in a surplus without thinking you were, or you thought you were in a deficit and you weren't.
Beth: 7:15
I was not. I was at macros that had worked for me in the past Um and I was using a different app Um and um when I started getting into Macrofactor and seeing what was going on. You can see just this downward slope and I think it's mostly related to the thyroid issues and I know women like to blame thyroid for a lot of things, but I've been hypothyroid since the 90s, so I've been on medication for a long time and what was working just changed. I started having actually some heart issues. I was having tachycardia with exercise that was beyond what it should have been, with exercise that was beyond what it should have been, and the weight gain and some hot flashes that were beyond menopause hot flashes. So it turns out.
Philip Pape: 8:20
I was hyperthyroid, got it Okay. I mean, at least you found this out Because of the meds yeah, because of the meds.
Philip Pape: 8:24
Yeah, because of the meds and and um, and I know, working with other clients on on synthetic T3 and other thyroid meds, that there's a lot of tweaking sometimes involved to find the right levels for you. So here's the thing. A lot of people are going to be listening and they're saying, oh, so your expenditure was crashing down. You know, on one hand you could throw up your hands and say like that's, that's the end of it, like there's nothing I can do. On the other hand, you can say you know what? It's great that you have the data to show you your expenditures crashing, like whatever app you use or however you calculate it. I mean, we use macro factor because it's the only app that can give you that information.
Philip Pape: 9:00
It's not the app's fault, right, that the expenditure is going down, and it's not yours either. It's just the reality of what's happening. So, um, what did you decide to do at that point? I mean, I know the answer here, beth, but just for the listener, what did you decide to do once that pattern occurred? Quit, be more specific, you mean quit trying to lose fat, lose weight.
Beth: 9:22
No, I just I was doing the trial of Whitson Waits University and I absolutely love all the information and I love the way that you're data driven and I love all of that. But I was like all of that. But I was like this is just. This is just me crashing my my medicines and I need to get this under control before I can move on to, um, losing weight, and this is not the time to be trying to lose weight. And you were very kind enough to come to my rescue and talk to me very kindly and help me out there.
Philip Pape: 10:10
Yeah, I appreciate that, because it's just as not just as it's almost as frustrating for me to see you go through that and then now be in the position of we've got to figure something out. And sometimes that decision is like you decided to do is, let's focus on recovery and um, a different goal in the short term, or maybe in the medium or long-term, while potentially addressing other things, which is a great strategy. I mean, anyone listening if, if you've got and we're going to talk about your physical injuries too, but if you've got things going on you've got to recover from, why add more stress to the situation with dieting and fat loss? Now, if you were burning 3000 calories and it was like a moderate deficit you could do easily. That's a different situation, but that wasn't the situation. So, um, you decided then to come out of fat loss and figure out what to do next, right, and that was potentially build some muscle.
Beth: 11:02
Yes, yes, um, I did finally find my maintenance in um in macro factor and it was much lower than what I would have liked, but it is what it is. Um and have to deal with that. So, um, we discussed it and decided to do a somewhat of a lean build, to add in a little bit calories and try and put some muscle on um, try and preserve my metabolism. If not, maybe keep it a little push up Um, and so this is a. This is brand new. I have never tried to. I've always wanted muscle, but I've never tried to purposefully add in calories and put a build on in that way. So it's new.
Philip Pape: 12:05
And is that because of fear of gaining weight? Is that just because it is new and you're not sure what it's going to come of it?
Beth: 12:15
Yes, it's a fear of gaining weight. You spend your life trying to. You know, I've said that I've never been overweight. This is my highest weight non-pregnancy weight that I've ever been. But honestly, I do feel like I have more muscle than the last time that I was here. I have been here before and it looks different. It looks different. I got to say it's, it's. It's not quite as devastating as it has been in the past and I also know that my metabolism is doing a little better. And I want to just throw one thing out. I'm going to throw out about wits and weights. That was very nice.
Beth: 13:06
You were on vacation.
Beth: 13:09
I started this whole lean bill and it was just interesting because my expenditure did start going up but my weight trend started going down and it was just doing some strange little things there to begin with and you were on vacation, so I didn't want to bother you on vacation and I knew you would answer it when you got back. But I reached out to another member. I just got into the build part of Wits and Weight and found someone that had been through this before and looked like they kind of did the same thing and I won't mention names, but she very generously answered me and reassured me, and so don't be afraid to tweak it a little bit. You know, up your calories just a little bit if you need to. You may need to make a little jump and it just feels like a family, is, I guess, what I'm trying to get at. You were not there, I know you would have been, but you were on vacation, well-deserved vacation, and I just reached out and I got an answer very quickly and very kindly and it was great.
Philip Pape: 14:28
Yeah.
Beth: 14:29
I I just wanted to give a shout out to the community. It's a great community. It feels like. It feels like you get to know people and that they are family.
Philip Pape: 14:37
I love that you said that, because I remember seeing that message come through. I don't know if you can hear my dogs, but we both have dogs. Um, I saw the message come through cause I still monitor that stuff, even when I'm on vacation just on the back end, and then I saw someone chime in and I'm like this is the power of numbers. Obviously, I take one vacation a year for a week, and that's when you needed the help, but I'm glad that you saw the power of having others have gone through the same experience. That's why I made this for us and I say us myself included, because I like to have others to bounce ideas off and learn from too.
Philip Pape: 15:12
Um, not everybody is, I guess, as public or wants to share in that way, right, that's why there's different ways to do this for people. Some people want to keep things private, uh, but by doing that you could leverage the, the, the learning from someone else. So, um, yeah, that's great. Thank you for mentioning that. Thank you for mentioning that. Um, so let's talk about your current situation then, right now, because you're also dealing with shoulder issues, right, and you've got an injury, a slap to lesion, I think was the specifics, some osteoarthritis, tendinopathy and your rotator cuff. Um, what's what's going on there, your rotator cuff. What's going on there?
Beth: 15:49
I don't know what's going on there. I've been very lucky. I haven't had joint issues in the past or any kind of injuries. It was not from strength training, it was from newly being retired and taking up golf Very dangerous sport. Didn't know it was a dangerous sport.
Philip Pape: 16:13
You'd be surprised all those sports.
Beth: 16:15
Yeah, I've done triathlons, I've done horseback riding and I get injured playing golf. So anyway, it's just a nagging injury and my orthopedic surgeon has suggested not doing any kind of overhead presses, not doing any lat pulls. I have not been in physical therapy, although I'm exploring that right now because I want to get back to doing overhead presses and whatever, and it's not a severe pain but it's not very hard to get it hurting. It'll be good for a week and then I can reach the wrong way and something happens. So every time I look at different exercise plans and we're going to talk about that perhaps later or perhaps now, I don't know. You know, everything includes doing some lat pulldowns or doing some overhead press. Overhead press is a normal part of compound exercise that you expect to do. I've also changed my doing a bench press. I do a bench press but I have started doing it on a Smith machine and I set the pins where my elbows can't come down further than my chest.
Philip Pape: 17:50
So partial ROM, partial ROM or spotto press kind of a few inches high.
Beth: 17:54
Just a few inches high, because it does hurt to come down and it also affects before this actually happened back early September. It's been going on and off for since then, um, but it's affected being able to do uh, a squat. My arm does not feel comfortable being pulled back in that kind of position and so I've been doing leg presses, um, and just recently started doing hack squat because I can do those easily. So I've moved more towards machines. I was previously doing a lot with the barbell, but I'm not doing very much with the barbell anymore.
Philip Pape: 18:44
Let's talk through this now, because I have personal experience with this myself having had rotator cuff surgery and also literally just went to my surgeon yesterday just to relate to your story, and found I have, because of my anatomy, my supraspinatus, which is the top part of the rotator cuff tendon, is much more prone to friction from I don't know if it's like the clavicle or the scapula that hits it and he's like, yep, so you might have this your whole life, where there's just a chance that you're going to tear your tendon. I'm like, oh, that's great. So, first of all, there is a great physical therapist I know who's a barbell trainer. His name is John Patrizzo. Shout out to him.
Philip Pape: 19:21
He was on the show a long time ago. He and I chat occasionally. He will do, he will do some coaching for me with regards to this. So if you ever want a connection, um, I know he'll do a free zoom call just to talk to you about it and give you some suggestions. But as far as a few things, a squat, totally understand what you mean. Do you have access to a safety bar?
Beth: 19:41
I do I've never used it, but I do that will solve the problem.
Philip Pape: 19:45
For that then, you could squat normally for the rest of your life, because your hands will be in front of you. Neutral position, no big deal. You don't have to extend your shoulder. Okay, that's check. Okay, now you can squat. Okay.
Beth: 19:58
I will try it next time.
Philip Pape: 19:59
Yeah, yeah, safety bar and anybody listening, that would be the one with the big yoke on it. It has some handles that stick in front. Um, a little bit of a caber bar, what's that? Are they heavier than the traditional bar? Usually, like mine is 65, um, but it depends on the specific one. There's also different brands, like the kabuki transformer bar is another one where it's actually got adjustable angles and stuff to it. Um, yeah, so just check it out they. Maybe there's a what they would call woman's version, which I know it's like insulting these days, but there's a woman might be a woman's version that's lighter, kind of like a lighter barbell.
Beth: 20:34
Okay.
Philip Pape: 20:35
Yeah, and then for the pressing um, I'm definitely not against. Like machines have their place. For sure it can be a huge tool. Um, with pressing use, I think you said you could do incline right, Incline pressing. With pressing, I think you said you could do incline right, Incline pressing.
Beth: 20:48
I was not told. No, I actually have an appointment with my surgeon after this this afternoon. Oh, cool Okay.
Philip Pape: 20:56
Because what comes to mind is there's grip, so neutral grips, and I know you're doing some of this. There's grip, there's changing the range of motion and so even if you do an incline dumbbell press or even a barbell press, you could do a very narrow grip or a neutral grip with the dumbbells. And a lot of people don't think about that. They're like I'm just going to press them, just rotate into a neutral grip and try that out. Um, do it as long as it, as long as you feel no pain, because correct me if I'm wrong when you do, when you tweak it cause you're doing the wrong thing, it happens pretty quickly, right?
Beth: 21:29
It does, and I was told not to do overhead presses that it would impinge on the tendon. However, I don't feel any pain with doing overhead presses, and that's one of the things I'm going to talk to him about. What hurts me more is internal rotation, like taking a shirt off or reaching back.
Philip Pape: 21:54
Yep Internal like as if you pulled your back. You pulled your hand behind your back and tried to clamp it to your back right. Yes, internal rotation Yep.
Beth: 22:03
That's what really bothers me.
Philip Pape: 22:05
Okay, One of the best stretches for that is to lay on the ground on your back, put your arm, you know, put, put your, put your arm at 90 degrees and then just push your forearm forward down to the ground. Okay, that's a great stretch for that. Um, it's also why you're you can't squat. That's why you have discomfort squatting. Is the internal rotation Right? Um?
Beth: 22:26
right, that's, that's. Yeah. Well, that's more external. Have discomfort. Squatting is the internal rotation.
Philip Pape: 22:28
Right, right, that's what that's. Yeah, well, that's more external rotation, but still same idea, um, but anyway. But you're going to talk to him and then and then we can connect you with John If you need to. The point is, for the pressing um, as long as you don't feel pain, and training sessions with that movement over the next couple weeks that it doesn't start to accumulate. You just want to stay far away from that so you don't get inflammation, you don't jack up the inflammation.
Philip Pape: 22:58
So partial ROM, like you're doing with the Smith, is great. You can do that with a traditional bar where you literally just stop annually two inches above. That's called a spotto press. You could put pins. You could also do a very close grip kind of like people do for close grip bench, and just make that your own, your normal bench. You know, tuck, tuck your elbows in and you'll notice that should feel a lot different because your shoulders are hardly getting involved. Gotcha, tuck them in. Um other than that you can get crazy with like multi bars and lots of other things. But if you just find like three or four substitutions and just stick with those, you know it should work.
Philip Pape: 23:34
We can go over more specifics outside of this call. If you want, like, what can I do for this, what can I do for this, I can give you options. That would be awesome, yeah, so the good thing is, you continue to train, like a lot of people would just give up, and you're continuing to train. I actually love it. You love it, yeah, cause you get. You get the result.
Beth: 23:54
Well, I just feel so good when I come out. It's it's a kind of a non-negotiable Good. Monday, wednesday, friday it's to the gym.
Philip Pape: 24:02
Yeah, it needs to be. It needs to be a non-negotiable. It's like eating protein it's got to be a non-negotiable. And you, you actually shared some data with me. You shared a lot of data, which I love. Data and no, no, no, it's great. I mean I cause a lot of. It was like yesterday and I haven't even had time to process all of it, but what I did notice a few things. One is your body fat has gone down and you've gained lean mass, which is body recomposition, and you kind of alluded to that earlier when you said I was, you were uncomfortable gaining weight, and then you said but it's not, the sky's not falling and in fact, maybe that's given you the stimulus and the growth anabolic environment you needed all these years. Potentially, what do you think? Because I have been lifting weights.
Beth: 24:44
I'm not new to lifting weights, but I'm definitely putting muscle on and the whole reason we're doing this podcast is doing the protein challenge. So I'm getting lots of good protein and extra calories about 100 extra calories over what my expenditure is and it definitely seems to be working.
Philip Pape: 25:09
Tell us more when you say seems to working what? Let's get into some specifics.
Beth: 25:14
Um, I had not been changing a lot with strength grains and getting PRS and I'm not making amazing changes in lifts, but it's going up steadily, um, so I'm going to a new level with the lifts, um, and I have good energy um to do it. Um, I'm in the gym for an hour hour and 15 minutes and um feeling good about that, um, but I mean I could just feeling good about that, but I mean I could, just I can see the muscle and I'm looking forward to down the line when I take off some fat and can actually see it a little more. But I'm definitely just I'm feeling stronger, I can see the muscle and it's all good.
Philip Pape: 26:09
Yeah, Not only is it good, it's phenomenal. Let me tell you why, Cause you did send me your data. I'm looking at it right now. You went from a body weight of 142 with 91 pounds of lean mass to 145 at 95 pounds, and I'm just rounding numbers. Basically, you gained like almost pure muscle, effectively, is what you did, which is like like 80% of the now, just to put it in perspective, we know some of that is that's lean mass, which includes muscle, bone, water and organs. So the other thing that changes is water and everybody gains a little bit of fluid when they start gaining from carbs and such. But honestly, to gain that much um, in terms of lean mass because of your measurements, the way we do it here we use the Navy formula and all that is phenomenal, Like that's.
Philip Pape: 26:56
That tells me something there's. There's almost like a newbie gains that you're getting, even though you have lifted your whole life, that you didn't get to experience until now, which is crazy. That are not crazy. It's wonderful. I mean, you're 68. And again, people are hearing this like Whoa, you could still build muscle at 68. You can do it at 78, 88, 98. Honestly, it's great. I'm just saying it's, it's amazing, yeah.
Beth: 27:15
And I mean, I have to be honest, I love being able to be strong. It's, um, we've talked about I'm training for a bike vacation and you know I'm able to, you know I'm able to, you know, lift my bike easily out in and out of the truck and putting it up on the wall. And um, you know, we were over at a friend's house and she asked me to go get my husband to carry in a case of water and I'm like, well, I'll go get it. No, no, no, no, no, you don't need to be doing that. It's like it's not anything I can do that.
Philip Pape: 27:48
Love it.
Beth: 27:49
Um, and I love it. I don't, I mean I like, I like being strong, I want to stay strong. My mother lived to be 98. So I hope, um, I'm hoping, up carrying in the case of water when I'm 98. Um, maybe, maybe not I don't know you should be.
Philip Pape: 28:05
You should be able to, you should be able to.
Beth: 28:07
You should be able to.
Philip Pape: 28:08
I've talked to bodybuilders in their eighties. Who you're like? They're like 55, right.
Beth: 28:14
No, they're not, I am, I like, I like being strong, it's. You know, my husband is just like can you pick up that end of the couch? My daughter recently moved and we have a sleeper sofa and it's like I got it. I'm okay Picking it up and go and it's a good feeling, yeah.
Philip Pape: 28:33
Yeah, sorry, I'm letting you speak, but it's a good feeling. I mean, when people are thinking, why do I do this? Is there something that? So now it's a good feeling, it feels great to be strong, that alone probably motivates you. But is there anything along the line that you've actively sought to get better at, or you've done this for a reason?
Beth: 28:53
let's say Um, just want to live a long, strong life. Um, I just want to. Um, my husband and I like active vacations. We're usually, we're usually biking and hiking, and I don't know if I would know what to do just to sit on the beach all day Not that I don't like to do that, I do but I like being able to do other things too. Um, that's great. I like being active. I don't. I don't want to sit around for my life and yeah and we talk about.
Philip Pape: 29:31
it's funny because some people put themselves in a box with these things, like, when it comes to strength, physique development, whatever, um, where they're, they're almost focused too much on, too much on the process, and I say that in a way. What I mean by that is they're focused too much on I have to do protein, I have to have calories, I have to lift weights, as opposed to leaning into that bigger picture of how it fits your life. And early on when you joined, I remember you talking about biking and, um, sometimes people think, oh, we're the no cardio people, right? Like, like we, we talk about lifting and walking and maybe sprinting, but we're not about endurance athletics.
Philip Pape: 30:11
But for you, that is something you enjoy and it's part of your activity. It's a sport that you, uh, lean into and it helps you thrive and live your active life. So the strength training and the diet and everything supports it, um, is is from my perspective. So what are your thoughts on? What are your thoughts on that in general? Like, why do you love to bike? How does this help with your biking, and so on.
Beth: 30:33
Oh, it absolutely helps with the biking. Um, I actually went out. I, I uh, I'm a fair weather biker. I like a beautiful day and being out on my bike and, um, it's, it's, it's good for the mind, it just makes you feel good to be out on a beautiful day and to be doing something physical and the strength.
Beth: 31:01
We went out the other day and I live in Kentucky, it's been a little windy and weather here, if you ever catch the news and we went out the other day and it was 18, 19 mile an hour winds with gusts up to 35 or 40. And I'm like this is crazy, we don't need to be out here. But we decided to go. We just did 11 miles, which is not going that far, and I felt good, I had the strength to do it. We've got lots of hills and hills and wind and, um, my legs are just a lot stronger. Um, it was, it was actually could make it enjoyable, um, on a not so great day. But, um, uh, the the strength is definitely helpful on the bike, but the strength is definitely helpful on the bike.
Philip Pape: 31:50
Yep, yep, that's what I hear, yeah.
Beth: 31:52
If it was just a little flat road and we're just going slow and tottering around, it wouldn't matter that much. But we've got a lot of hills and we are trying to do some distance We'll be building up here. Right now we're just doing my longest ride is about 20 miles, but we'll be working up to 30 or 40. Probably is all we will, but that's still a couple hours out riding hours yeah, I mean it makes.
Philip Pape: 32:21
It makes a lot of sense. We we hear time and again dealing with athletes or people who have a sport, that strength is a foundation, such that it, like it's an amplifier for everything else. You know it's it, it makes everything else easier. And so when you talk about pumping your legs in a concentric fashion over and over thousands of times, it makes sense that if you can produce more force than the next person who weighs the same, that you'll have an easier time of it. Right, right, just to put it in pure math.
Beth: 32:49
Yes, Just bringing out the engineer in you. Yeah, yeah yeah.
Philip Pape: 32:52
No, it's important to know, though. Yeah.
Beth: 32:55
But it also prevents injury.
Philip Pape: 32:58
That is true, yeah.
Beth: 33:00
Less likely to get injured, whether it's biking or doing anything else. 100%, but I'm thinking in the biking world it's good to have that muscle strength.
Philip Pape: 33:13
Yep, and you'll find this with sports, with BJJ, I have a client who's a competitive rifle shooter. Oh, wow, I have a client who's a competitive rifle shooter Pretty cool and she, for the first few months we worked together, she was doing kind of a group class because we didn't want to touch her training. We wanted to focus on diet. First she had quite a bit of weight to lose, let's say, plus 300 pounds and we then recently switched her to lifting more, like you're doing right, focus on strength, focus on progression, and she's like wow, this is just making the sport my rifle sport so much easier all of a sudden, within within weeks. And I think it's again.
Philip Pape: 33:51
Another thing is the things you want to do in your life, whether it's biking or a sport, or soccer or even walking. You know, walking upstairs, depending. If you're 85 and frail and you've never lifted, and then you start lifting, you can walk upstairs. That's, that's an amazing, uh, life transformation for someone. So you're very inspiring, beth, because people are hearing this and hopefully think, wow, I can. You know, age is not a factor, honestly, if you do this.
Beth: 34:17
It's. It's really not. I mean I do have the shoulder ache and I've never had that before, but it's okay, um, just work around it and and not that big a deal. But I don't want to say that I don't feel that different than when I was 40, but I really don't. I mean I can't. There's nothing that I can't. There's nothing I can't do if I want to, um, and it's great.
Philip Pape: 34:42
So I know you're always focused on what to do next and how to continue optimizing refining. You and I talked back and forth before this recording about your lifting, your workouts, a little bit about your nutrition in your next phase. Where do you feel like you need the most help at the moment? What's the number one thing you're focused on that you have questions on.
Beth: 35:02
My biggest questions are going to be on just balancing everything, because it's very hard. I am taking a total rest day today. I biked over the weekend. I lifted weights yesterday. Thyroid's been cut a little bit so it takes me a little time to adjust to those and tired and learning to take a rest day. And maybe I talked to you a little bit about maybe cutting. I hate to cut back on the strength training. I don't really want to cut back. I want to be more efficient with it so that I can fit everything in and have the energy to do everything. So I'm looking for balance and scheduling it all getting it all in but also getting the rest. I need to do it.
Philip Pape: 35:58
Okay, tell me, let's break down the big blocks of time throughout your week. So start with training. How many days and how long are your sessions?
Beth: 36:25
it's on the treadmill and, um, I usually do a little bit. The first set of exercises I usually do warmups. Um, for whatever I'm lifting, If it's like press, I'll do warmup sets is my warmups. Um, I don't do a lot of stretching.
Philip Pape: 36:38
Okay, so a little over an hour that's. That's totally reasonable. Most people train between an hour and hour and a half. If you're doing, you're doing four days. Right At the moment I'm doing three days. You're doing three Okay. However, I could add in a fourth day and just do it at home with dumbbells Um wait, we're trying to, we're trying to take stuff away here, beth, right, I know, and that's a hold.
Beth: 37:00
And that's my problem. I get it.
Philip Pape: 37:03
We want to do it all we want to do it all. Okay, so you've got three sessions a week. Those are on weekdays. Those are on weekdays. I go Monday, wednesday, friday.
Beth: 37:14
Could you do one on the weekend? How would that work with your schedule? Um, I could.
Philip Pape: 37:16
And I only bring that up as a lot of people don't even think about it. They're like, oh wait a minute, I can make one of my training days a Saturday or Sunday, and that solves a whole bunch of issues for some people. Some others have like tons going on on the weekend and it doesn't work.
Beth: 37:28
Um, but I like the. There's no reason why I can't do it on the weekend.
Philip Pape: 37:32
Yeah, just an option. It's an option Like so I've I've worked with folks, and myself included, who've had, let's say, four day or even five day programs and you always think Monday, tuesday, thursday, friday, but nothing prevents you from doing like Monday, tuesday, thursday, saturday. Or you know like, if you're doing a five day program, you can make Tuesday and Wednesday your days off. You know what I mean. So that's one option. Um, so you've got your training blocks and then those are at a gym, so it's an hour, an hour 15 plus commute.
Beth: 37:59
Yes.
Philip Pape: 38:00
Which is like 15 or something.
Beth: 38:02
It's 15, plus commute, yes, which is like 15 or something. It's 10 minutes.
Philip Pape: 38:04
It's nowhere all right. So it's almost two hours. And then you got your shower and your prep, your bag, gym bag and all that. So almost two hours on those three days. Um, what's the next big block that you have throughout your week where you're doing it regularly and it takes time?
Beth: 38:18
um, so t usually, uh, we go to a track it's a motor speedway track that's open, so we have no cars to worry about that's open to bikers and runners, um, and my husband loves to do that. So we go on Tuesday nights to do that. We're not going tonight cause we're getting weather again tonight to do that. We're not going tonight because we're getting weather again tonight, and that's usually a big block of time. We're trying to get in about 30 miles, which is a good two hours, and it's about a 40 minute back and forth, so it's about an hour and a half of commute. Also.
Philip Pape: 39:03
Okay, but that is that a non-negotiable right there at that one.
Beth: 39:06
That's pretty non-negotiable Okay.
Philip Pape: 39:08
So it's in there, All right, Um, cause you're you're talking about balance and I mean it's. It is. It is a function of priorities and not only priorities, but, um, is there anything you can eliminate? That's like the bottom of the list where I go. Can you, can you eliminate, can you delegate, can you automate? And then the other stuff just stays like it is today, Cause it's optimal, Like your training is probably the only way you could save time potentially is have a full gym at home. You know, I don't know if that's even an option to have, like a barbell gym with some machines and stuff at home.
Beth: 39:39
I don't have a barbell at home. Um, I don't have a barbell.
Philip Pape: 39:47
I do have power blocks that go up much higher than I will ever use and a bench yeah, you said that that's right, so you could yeah, you could take one of your instead of adding a fourth day. Take one of your three days and make them at home and now. So that would save you what 30 minutes from commute, okay yeah, I have time.
Beth: 40:00
It's more energy, is what? Okay, I'm thinking to be honest okay, so you're training you. You train monday, wednesday, friday, with the tuesday biking yes, and then I've got to get in a couple more days of biking. For sure, this isn't a bike race that I'm training for, it's a vacation, but it still will be you or 30 miles of biking in the mountains.
Philip Pape: 40:25
Okay, this is where I'm thinking. So one of two options that come to mind, one is is potentially, um, either cutting out a lifting session altogether and I always hate to say that but if it's short term cause, when is your, when is your vacation?
Beth: 40:38
September. We've got a long time to go.
Philip Pape: 40:41
Okay, You've got four months. I wouldn't do that just yet. Um, that's one option. The second option would be you could split your training into four or five much shorter days, since time isn't the problem and recovery, recovery is the issue. Some people recover better with smaller sessions. Right, If you're doing, are you doing? I know you sent me your workout, but it's um, is it a push-pull legs or is it a full body?
Beth: 41:04
It's more full body. Yeah, it's what I had been doing, and then I started playing with it this past week and I'm not sure I'm happy with where it's at, so we'll talk about that later.
Philip Pape: 41:16
Yeah, because you could do a four-day where the sessions are like a half hour and you do three lifts. You know something like that. Um, that's the second option. The third option is just moving the days around and make it work better, because the biking day is smack dab between two training days.
Philip Pape: 41:34
And that's where I would rather almost like if you were training Monday, wednesday, friday and could put the biking day wherever you want. The long one, I'd put it on Saturday. So since you don't have that situation, it's like what? If Tuesday is like your Saturday and then you would do, your training week would be Thursday, saturday, monday or whatever. You could do the math, but you know what I mean. You'd have, you'd have Tuesday, and when you do, wednesday would be off.
Beth: 41:57
So take a rest day on Wednesday.
Philip Pape: 41:59
Yeah, and just shift it so it's like Monday, thursday, thursday, saturday, something like that. You know what I mean. Right, you can flip it around in your head do Thursday, saturday, monday, but you don't have the same idea. Um, what about what? What about the other days? What, how much? What kind of activity are you doing?
Beth: 42:16
Um, I am walking. Is is up around 9,000. I think it was averaged 8,800 for the week and I'll have to get out and walk. I've got the dogs to walk and usually in the summertime that picks up too a little bit. I know last summer I was doing more around 11,000.
Philip Pape: 42:39
Well, that's reasonable, Beth. So 8,000, it's not even taxing. It's fine. How's your sleep?
Beth: 42:45
Sleep is good.
Philip Pape: 42:46
Sleep is good Stress.
Beth: 42:48
Stress is pretty good Okay.
Philip Pape: 42:52
So let's get deeper then, when you talk about energy. When is it worse? During the week, and what does it feel like?
Beth: 43:01
I guess I was exhausted last night and today and so it's like today is just an enforced rest day. I'm not even doing a lot of walking today, um, because we had a big bike ride on Sunday, um, and also biked on Saturday, but it was that short, windy one, but that was still a hard bike ride, even though it was short, and then lifted weights yesterday and yesterday afternoon I was beat and I should be. I mean, it was. I don't know that anything is happening, it's just that I need to. I just want to make sure that I get like a couple of rest days, which means I'm going to be biking on days that I'm lifting too.
Philip Pape: 43:45
Yeah and that's not the worst thing in the world, it's just if you're doing full body. That's where the challenge could be, so that's where I was going to go next with you, beth, is the split makes even more sense where you have two light upper body days and then two lower bodies, and the lower bodies are very far removed from your biking.
Beth: 44:04
And I kind of like that. Okay, I like a little bit shorter, maybe a little bit shorter lifting days.
Philip Pape: 44:10
Yeah, cause if you're okay with the commute time and all that, it's not a big deal. Some people like to go to the gym almost every day, so, um, that's. I think that would work for you. It's like just a typical four day split where your heavy biking day comes after potentially an upper body day, and then you get a rest day after that and then a lower than an upper, than a lower meaning wait, upper or no, then lower, upper, lower. I have to figure that out, but yeah, there's a way to do that to make it work. Okay, we'll get into specifics. Yeah, that would work, and then you could just follow a traditional kind of like you're training now pretty much any four-day split would work, and you might just have to cut off some movements if it's too much and then substitute the movements for your shoulder. That's what I would do.
Philip Pape: 45:04
Do? I know you use Boost Camp, right? I do so. I often recommend programs in there from other coaches for people because I'm just like pick the best program for you right now. I followed my own and others and you can kind of mix around when you need to. But, um, maybe filter through there on the different things, say four day and this and that and then, or I can find one for you as well. There's I'm pretty familiar with them by now, by now. Or you can just use one of my four days in the Physique University as well. Okay, all right. Anything else that we didn't cover so far?
Beth: 45:31
I don't think so. I think we've covered it. The only thing maybe, is doing periodization that at some point in time here, doing periodization that I'm at some point in time here. I'll go into a and go into a fat loss phase, and I'm actually kind of looking forward to to doing this and and think about doing this again, you know, doing a building phase here get addicted to it in a way right, and then get back into a building phase and then maybe get into a maintenance phase.
Beth: 46:07
I don't know. We'll have to, we'll have to talk and figure that all out.
Philip Pape: 46:10
But we'll talk. I mean the. The one piece of advice on fat loss is just pick a quiet time of year, you know like. Don't pick it when you know you'd want to eat all the foods, right like holidays. Be careful gotcha, gotcha.
Beth: 46:22
That's probably the good building phase, I would guess.
Philip Pape: 46:24
Exactly, exactly.
Beth: 46:25
Thanksgiving or Christmas is that build time?
Philip Pape: 46:28
Exactly it is. It's how you line it up. It works out really well, all right. So I guess my last question or two here One is if let's say there's really anybody listening, but say, older adults who might be hesitant to prioritize building muscle, yeah, maybe they have injuries or medical conditions like you're facing a bit, maybe they don't, maybe it's just a hesitation, like you had. What advice would you give them based on your experience?
Beth: 46:54
To do it. Jump on in there, get started. Go to the gym, start lifting. My biggest recommendation, seeing my friends that don't lift and um, whatever is to, to take it slow. You don't have to. You don't have to go in and lift a hundred pounds to start with on the barbell. You go in and and you know, lift that five or 10 pound dumbbell, whatever you can do and and build from there. Um, it's not, it's not a sprint. Unveil whatever you can do and build from there. It's not a sprint, it's just take your time and just start.
Philip Pape: 47:29
Just start, take your time.
Beth: 47:31
Be patient. It's a wonderful feeling.
Philip Pape: 47:33
It's a wonderful feeling. Yeah, definitely lean into that. There is a lot of misinformation or misunderstanding from people who don't lift. I see it as well. My parents live in the villages there. You know people there in the seventies, eighties, nineties and it's these things, these ideas about I'm going to get hurt, or that's too heavy, or my doctor said not to do this, or blah, blah, blah, like you've heard it all, and it's never too late to start.
Beth: 47:55
So um, please, please, please do. That was an inspiration and I found was absolutely hilarious.
Beth: 47:58
That was an inspiration and I found was absolutely hilarious. My mother lived to be 98 and she was good most of the time. She lived in a house for a long time with steps and we're like do you need to get out of the house? She goes no, that's my exercise, that keeps me going. If I have to go up the steps to go to bed, then that keeps me going. But she moved to Florida eventually and I was going down to visit her one time and I hadn't seen her in several months and I said well, do you want to do lunch? I'll be there by lunchtime and she goes I would love to do lunch but it's going to have to be after one o'clock because I'm going to be in the gym. And I was like and I think she was about 94. Then I was like, okay, that's great.
Philip Pape: 48:44
That is awesome, I love it.
Beth: 48:46
And she did not lift weights all her life but she did walk and she did stay active in her own way At 94, she had her personal trainer and I'm peeking in the window and she's got a dumbbell in her hand and she was going to town and I was like, yes, I like it. Yes, no excuses people, if you're listening for lunch.
Philip Pape: 49:12
That's so inspirational. Um, yeah, yeah, please, please do guys. I mean, the older I get, the more I see it with with that generation and I don't want to be there and, heck, I even have shoulder issues at the young age of my forties or whatever it happens. All of us. So what you keep training, you find a way, you keep moving, keep learning. So if you're listening and Beth's journey has sparked something in you which I hope it has and you want to take a smarter approach, which is just getting started, like she just said, getting started working around whatever limitations you have we're all different, we all have things.
Philip Pape: 49:47
It's no reason not to do it. Maybe you're navigating the hormonal changes. Maybe you're tired of the social media craziness and misinformation. Then try out Physique University like jump in, there's a free trial. You can say hi to Beth. You can see what's going on. We do challenges all the time. A free trial you can say hi to Beth. You can see what's going on. We do challenges all the time. She actually won our protein challenge, which is one of the reasons Her reward is getting grilled on a podcast, you see. So, yeah, just check it out. I'm not going to pitch it any more than that. We'll include the link in the show notes. But, beth, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Thank you for sharing the experience. People need to hear this because it's very important, so thank you.
Beth: 50:23
Thank you for giving me the chance. Appreciate it.
