Blood Sugar Spikes, Carb Myths, GLP-1s, and Fat Loss Tips from a Type 1 Diabetic (Ben Tzeel) | Ep 343
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Are carbs really your enemy? Should you be training fasted? Can someone with diabetes actually build muscle and thrive?
Registered dietitian and strength coach Ben Zeal, who’s been living with type 1 diabetes for over 25 years, joins me to break down some of the biggest myths in fitness and nutrition. We discuss carb fear, insulin misconceptions, and the truth about fasted training, CGMs, GLP-1s, and more.
Ben also covers how blood sugar management isn't just for diabetics, but for anyone wanting consistent energy, better performance, and body composition goals that stick. Our discussion is packed with real talk and practical strategies to train smarter, eat with confidence, and stop fearing carbs.
Today, you’ll learn all about:
4:39 – Should non-diabetics track glucose?
6:13 – Walks, workouts, and insulin sensitivity
9:28 – Can movement replace medication?
13:11 – How to overcome carb fear
15:14 – Best training approach for blood sugar
22:36 – Stress: the hidden blood sugar saboteur
27:40 – GLP-1 drugs and smart strategy
30:48 – What insulin pumps actually do
36:32 – How to become a consistent lifter
41:44 – Does fiber really matter for blood sugar?
44:25 – Where to find Ben and free resources
Rethinking Carbs, Blood Sugar, and Fat Loss (Even If You’re Not Diabetic)
If you’ve been avoiding carbs, skipping breakfast to train fasted, or worrying about blood sugar spikes because of something you saw on Instagram, this episode is going to challenge some of those assumptions and probably relieve a lot of unnecessary stress.
Today’s conversation with registered dietitian and strength coach Ben Tzeel is packed with practical, evidence-based strategies to improve insulin sensitivity, body composition, and energy levels… whether you’re managing type 1 diabetes or just trying to perform and feel better. Ben’s been living with diabetes for 25 years and brings a ton of lived experience to the science, but most of what we talk about applies to anyone.
Let’s unpack what you really need to know about blood sugar, carbs, fasting, training, and GLP-1 medications in the real world.
Carbs Aren’t the Enemy (and Blood Sugar Spikes Aren’t Always Bad)
If you don’t have diabetes, your body is already doing a great job of regulating blood sugar. A post-meal “spike” of 10 points on your CGM doesn’t mean you need to panic. The variability and range of your blood sugar matter far more than isolated highs or lows. And even then, for most non-diabetics, it’s just not something to obsess over.
If you do have diabetes, managing your time-in-range and using tools like walking, lifting, and nutrition can absolutely help. As Ben shared, something as simple as walking after a meal can have a powerful blood sugar-lowering effect, comparable in some cases to the effect of medications like metformin.
Why Lifting and Muscle Mass Are Your Metabolic Superpower
Here’s the part the fitness influencers often skip over: muscle is your largest reservoir for glucose. The more muscle you carry and the more you use it through strength training and movement, the more glucose your body can absorb without needing a big insulin response. That means less volatility in blood sugar and more room for flexibility with your nutrition.
Ben explained it as a series of gates (like a combination lock) that open up when you move, letting glucose into the muscle even without insulin. The takeaway? Lifting weights and walking regularly give you a built-in buffer for eating more carbs while keeping blood sugar in check.
Yes, You Can Eat Pizza and Cereal (Even with Diabetes)
One of the best insights from Ben was how important it is to repair the relationship with food if you’ve been told “you can’t have this” for years. Whether it’s diabetes or just diet culture fear-mongering, cutting out foods you love usually backfires.
The key is balance, awareness, and slow exposure. Ben works with clients to reintroduce foods like cereal or pizza with a plan… maybe higher protein versions, or eaten after activity. It’s not about restriction. It’s about building confidence that your body can handle these foods when the rest of your routine is on point.
Fasted Training: Smart Strategy or Overhyped Hack?
Let’s clear this up. Fasted training is not a magical fat-burning tool. It’s not superior for fat loss. It’s just a tool, one that might make sense for convenience, schedule, or, in Ben’s case, blood sugar management without needing to pre-bolus insulin.
For most people, there’s no major downside if protein is evenly distributed throughout the day. So train fasted if it helps you stay consistent. But don’t fall into the trap of thinking it’s required for results.
GLP-1s: Use the Tool, Don’t Rely on the Tool
GLP-1 agonists like Ozempic or Mounjaro have changed the game for weight loss and diabetes management. But they’re not magic. Ben made a strong case for using them as a springboard, not a crutch. If you don’t change your nutrition and activity, you’ll just regain the weight when you stop taking them.
That’s why his team focuses on the trifecta of nutrition, training, and blood sugar control. The medication may help you eat less, but the muscle you build, the habits you create, and the awareness you develop are what allow you to keep the results.
Tracking and Data (That Actually Matter)
If you’re managing blood sugar, CGM data is obviously essential. But even if you’re not, tracking macros (especially protein and total energy intake) is still one of the most effective ways to influence your body composition and performance.
Ben also keeps an eye on labs like A1c, thyroid panels, and sex hormones. And his advice? Don’t ignore stress. Chronic stress will wreck your blood sugar, your recovery, and your ability to stay consistent.
Becoming a Lifter for Life
One of the most powerful takeaways came near the end of our conversation: don’t expect perfection overnight. If your blood sugar isn’t ideal, or your weight loss is slow, or your training is inconsistent, that doesn’t mean you’re failing.
It means you’re human.
The real win is showing up consistently, lifting weights regularly, staying active, and eating in a way that you enjoy and can sustain. That’s how you build a physique and a lifestyle that actually lasts.
Final Thoughts
Carbs aren’t the problem. Insulin isn’t the enemy. And CGMs aren’t magic.
But walking more, lifting regularly, tracking protein and energy intake, and finding an approach that works for your lifestyle? That’s the foundation.
Whether you’re managing diabetes or just want to stop spinning your wheels with fat loss, take the pressure off and focus on what you can control. You don’t need extreme diets or fancy protocols. You need muscle, movement, and a mindset built for the long haul.
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Transcript
Philip Pape: 0:01
If you're avoiding carbs because you're afraid of blood sugar spikes, you're training fasted because someone said it burns more fat, or you think insulin is a problem, is the enemy of fat loss, but you're still dealing with energy crashes, inconsistent performance, you don't have the fat loss results you want for the effort you're putting in, then this episode is for you. Today, my guest, who has been managing type 1 diabetes for 25 years, has learned a lot about metabolism, insulin and body composition, and he is going to clarify some of those topics carb timing, insulin sensitivity, fat loss that the industry often gets wrong. So listen in tune in, because you're going to learn a ton about blood sugar, carbs and fasting that will help you focus your efforts to optimize your metabolism and finally get the results you want. Will help you focus your efforts to optimize your metabolism and finally get the results you want. Welcome to Wits and Weights, the show that helps you build a strong, healthy physique using evidence, engineering and efficiency. I'm your host, philip Pape, and today we're going to discuss how someone living with type 1 diabetes has developed strategies that are going to help you help everyone when it comes to building muscle, optimizing health. Some of these are going to be counterintuitive. Yes, we're going to get into carbs and blood sugar and some of the hot topics, because they are important.
Philip Pape: 1:15
My guest is Ben Zeal, a registered dietitian, certified diabetes educator and certified strength coach, who was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at age 7.
Philip Pape: 1:25
And rather than letting this limit him, he's built a successful practice called your Diabetes Insider and helps thousands of people with diabetes live unrestricted lives while maintaining excellent blood sugar control, which is an amazing thing, because I definitely get that sense of frustration and sometimes hopelessness from individuals who feel like their medical history and their genetics are holding them back in some way. Ben's got over 25 years of personal experience, advanced credentials in nutrition and strength training. He's tested every approach, from high carb to low carb to intermittent fasting, and it's developed a hybrid approach that optimizes muscle building and glycemic control. Developed a hybrid approach that optimizes muscle building and glycemic control. So today I think you're going to learn a lot about myths like CGMs how useful are they, how to use them, how to navigate the carb confusion based on the evidence. His tips on building muscle while managing blood sugar to help you go after gains whether you have diabetes or not. With that, ben, welcome to the show.
Ben Tzeel: 2:24
I am so excited to be here and that was honestly the nicest intro anyone's ever done, so thank you.
Philip Pape: 2:29
Well, I appreciate that man and it's well-deserved. We were talking before, we were recording how we connected and we haven't had someone talk about diabetes specifically on the show, especially who has lived it. There is a lifter out there. She's called the Canadian Forklift. You know Jessica Bittner, which I'd love to have.
Ben Tzeel: 2:46
I don't know, I don't know. I know who she is and she's. I mean, my God, I'm like I would love to be just in remotely that stratosphere. Yeah.
Philip Pape: 2:54
Yeah, yeah, no, but it's inspired because, like in our Facebook group, when I hear from clients no, mainly people who haven't worked with me yet and you'll hear that sense of like, well, because I have diabetes, I can't X, y, z and I want to bust some of those today with you. So let's get into it. Let's start with blood sugar in general, because there's some science and mechanisms behind this, how the body works, and I guess I would say if there's one thing everyone could understand about blood sugar, what would that be?
Ben Tzeel: 3:20
Oh man, this is such a good question too. I feel like it's tough right, because I feel like, as a person with diabetes, it's obviously a different perspective, because I'm over here thinking, well, I have to stay in range, or at least relatively in range the majority of the time, but someone without diabetes, you've got all the hysteria but the fascination with what's my glucose right now. So the biggest thing is to not overreact to the blips that you see with blood sugars, and a perfect example of this would be I one time it was probably three, four years ago went out to breakfast with one of my friends. He was a dietician as well and he doesn't have diabetes, and so I figured you know what, let's see what happens. You're wearing a CGM, you got a CGM from your healthcare provider, whoever it was. Let's compare, let's eat the same pancakes, let's see what happens.
Ben Tzeel: 4:02
And it was hilarious. Of course, as a person with diabetes, I'm going to see more of a rise just because it was carbs and it was a good amount. These were chocolate chip pancakes that we didn't hold back, we had just lifted, and my blood sugar went up probably 160, 170. His blood sugar I absolutely I cannot make this up 94. He went from like 85 to 94. And he's oh my God, I went up nine points and I'm thinking, man, I would love to go up nine points eating some chocolate chip pancakes. So I think a lot of people, especially without diabetes, they see these changes in the graph like oh my goodness, my blood sugar just spiked. But you have to really put it in perspective. Was it a substantial enough spike to really warrant any sort of concern?
Philip Pape: 4:39
Yeah, no. So let's talk about that. Do people without? So we're kind of covering two populations here, but do people have to be concerned based on the range that they sit at with a baseline, or based on the variance? Who should even measure this?
Ben Tzeel: 4:54
Oh, it's tough. And so I think, if we're going diabetes specific first, just Google kind of, you know, parse it out Diabetes specific first, I would say it's more of the time that you are in range, right. So the standard for a Dexcom Pacific first, I would say it's more of the time that you are in range, right. So the standard for a Dexcom, which I would consider the gold standard for CGM, is typically, on default, 70 to 180. If you tell me you're 80%, 85% in range, you're doing awesome, because as people with diabetes, you're probably not going to be 100% in range unless you're just straight up not eating or you have everything just completely perfect and all you do is diabetes in your life, which is not realistic. But for people without diabetes I would say I mean it's tough right, because yes, you want to stay in a controlled range and ideally you don't ever want to go above 130, 140 if possible, and that would mean you ate a lot of carbs in one sitting and did not do anything to insulin sensitize yourself. So I think the biggest thing is variability matters, I think range matters, but I think time within the range, and if you don't have diabetes, the smaller the range the better, no-transcript.
Ben Tzeel: 6:13
Go without food for a second. What can you do outside of food to get your body in a prime position to be able to absorb the carbs and the sugar that's within the blood, right? And so, of course, there's two main ways the body can do it. There's insulin, right, of course, and then there's also with physical activity, using the calcium channels. You can basically do the same mechanism but not have insulin involved. So people like oh, if I take a walk after I eat, my blood sugar doesn't go as high because you've now started allowing your muscle to take up that glucose from the blood without doing anything else, and so that's what I typically refer to. So if I tell people hey, you're very active, you're walking, you're lifting, whatever you might be doing, that's going to put you in a prime position to have a little more variability and wiggle room, so your number may not spike as high depending on what types of carbs you're eating. So that's typically my primary way, I would say, from an insulin sensitivity standpoint.
Philip Pape: 7:07
Nailed it. There we go Cool, nice. So walking and lifting and muscle are some of the phrases you mentioned, and there's confusion around how that works. So I often use colloquial language here, for two reasons. One is hey, I don't know all the science at any one time out of my head, and number two is that's what people understand as analogies, right? So the idea that the bigger your muscles, the more they can hold and store in terms of glucose, as well as the more active you are, the more you shuttle those nutrients. You talked about calcium channels, so maybe break it down when you walk. Just in that moment, what is happening?
Ben Tzeel: 7:36
So basically, in a nutshell, just imagine that there's these gates, right, and you have to have a certain molecule attached to a gate, and there's four gates or a combination lock, whichever one's easier for you to imagine, and basically you just have to turn the lock to have each of the things in the code go, you know, get open, and once you do one, two, three, four, boom, it's open and the glucose can come in. So it's that simple and at that point, because you're walking and you're in motion, these gates will stay open, they'll continue sucking up glucose into the cell, pulling it out of the blood, and that allows your blood sugar to either not rise as high or, you know, in the case of someone whose blood sugar might be already high at baseline, to bring it down.
Philip Pape: 8:13
Awesome. And does being sedentary have an amplifying negative effect? And by that I mean, is it simply? This is an important question, right? Is it simply not giving you the benefit of walking, or is it amplifying the worsening of that effect of not using insulin?
Ben Tzeel: 8:28
Oh man, I love these questions. These are the things that I always wish people ask, but I never get asked. So I think it's. I think it's both right.
Ben Tzeel: 8:35
I think if somebody's body is used to a certain amount of activity at baseline and I've seen this in myself, I've seen this with patients all the time where, let let's say, your body's used to 8000 steps per day and today you just decided to hang out, have a lazy day, Netflix, whatever you are going to see that negative impact because your body is already used to a certain baseline and you're not even close to approaching that.
Ben Tzeel: 8:56
So you might notice insulin resistance just because you're not moving, compared to your norm. So I think there's that aspect of things where you're not giving your body what it wants. You start walking, your insulin sensitivity goes back, your blood sugar goes right back in the range. It is absolutely unreal how specific that is and I've seen it with myself and many, many, many people. But I also think just that baseline in general, if you're not moving, it's not doing you any favors and that doesn't mean you need to be in perpetual motion on a treadmill or a walking pad, but I think your body really appreciates. Our bodies are meant to move right. Our body needs to stay in motion.
Philip Pape: 9:28
Loves to move, loves to lift, loves to be functional and active in the world. And so, when you think of someone with diabetes like yourself, I've heard the claim and maybe it's true, right that the walking after meals is as effective, or more than metformin right Than a diabetes medication. What are your thoughts on that? Like, how can diabetics actually can they manage to an extent where they can limit or eliminate some of their pharmacology from their lifestyle? How important is all this for that?
Ben Tzeel: 9:54
Well, I would joke that I'm married to a pharmacist but I'm not the pharmacist so I can't answer completely right. But what I would say is, from an efficacy standpoint, walking after meals or really any sort of light activity post meal can do absolute wonders. You just can't expect it to do all of the heavy lifting metaphorically of the medication. So, for example, if someone's on insulin or if I'm on insulin and I go out to dinner and I know okay, I had a ton of carbs, I'm going to walk after this meal, it will definitely blunt the ability for my blood sugar to keep rising. But then if I walk for 10 or 15 minutes when I stop moving, if my blood sugar was going to keep going, it's going to keep going up, like it's not just going to completely stop and oh, everything's perfect now, but also it depends on the duration you're walking and a bunch of other factors.
Philip Pape: 10:36
That's good to know. So it's a matter of degrees and again, that reinforces why you need to measure that when it's a concern for you and when it's not. It sounds like just being active and lifting could probably be enough. I mean, I don't measure my, I've never measured my blood glucose and I don't plan to because you know, I kind of understand the science that you're talking about and I've had guests on who are big advocates for it and one of the reasons they say it's helpful for non-diabetics maybe is to see the results of your food balancing right, like when you balance your macros, or having enough protein, fats along with the carbs. How important is food balance and blood sugar management from that perspective?
Ben Tzeel: 11:14
I would say food balance, diabetes or not, food balance is going to be imperative. And, like you're saying right, if somebody's hey, my macros are being hit and I'm one of the people who's more liberal I don't care how you do it, as long as you do it. You can break the protein up and you know certain amounts, whatever fits in your life. But if you want intermittent fast, go for it. You want to be lower carb, go for it. If you hit your numbers, you hit your numbers.
Ben Tzeel: 11:35
But from a blood sugar standpoint, I will say having fat and protein at meals will help with not spiking quite as high as you possibly could. But on on the flip side, there's people who and I don't advocate for this way of eating but there's people in diabetes land who will basically just eat carbs, nothing else, just carbs. No, basically no fat, basically no protein, and their blood sugars are just fine because there's no potential for anything to slow down digestion, anything to induce insulin resistance. So there's these different camps and within diabetes land too, you get the people on the low carb side. So I think everyone always asks what's the best way to eat with it, and I don't think there's necessarily a perfect method or we would all do it, but on the flip side, I think that from a food standpoint, you have to have balance within it, otherwise you're going to spike more than you want to.
Philip Pape: 12:19
Okay, and then to extend that, very interesting, you talk about the like only carb approach. I feel bad for those guys because, as much as I love carbs, I got to have my protein when you're lifting. But it does bring up the restriction in the extreme camps and the reasons people do diets which are often, I'll say, flawed, and I it saddens me because if you're going to do something, it should be intentional for a purpose, and if you're doing it for the wrong purpose, then you're just shooting yourself in the foot. The big one is just cutting carbs for X, y, z, right. Cutting carbs to lose weight? No, that's energy balance. Cutting carbs because we think it's going to cause more fat storage, that's a whole topic about, again, insulin sensitivity and the flawed hypothesis related to fat burning versus glucose. It's just two energy systems that you know. It all balances out. What are your thoughts then on someone on diabetes who doesn't quite understand this and is afraid of carbs? What are your thoughts on that?
Ben Tzeel: 13:11
So my first thing is I give them an ice cream sundae. No, I'm totally kidding, but my thing with that is here's a pizza. First of all, pizza is like the biggest nightmare for most people with diabetes. We fix it, but something I would say is somebody who's nervous. It happens all the time because you get this dysfunctional relationship with food, because everyone says you can't have this, you can't have this, you can't have this, which does not serve anybody.
Ben Tzeel: 13:32
I'm always trying to figure out. My team's always trying to figure out where does this come from? Where does this stem from? Was it one bad incident? Was it one care provider early on in your diabetes career?
Ben Tzeel: 13:40
If we're going to call it that, that may have led you astray. And then, from there, how can we challenge this? Because I'm not asking you to eat a whole pizza, but we also can't have you concerned about a bowl of Cheetos that's next to you because you're concerned about what it's going to do to your blood sugar. So at the end of the day, it's going to be hey. How can we get you to slowly break out of this comfort zone? If it's something that you're interested, that will work for your blood sugar management? Because, to a degree. Are carbs needed? We could debate that and that's a fun. I love that topic in general but you don't necessarily need carbs if you live with diabetes. But a lot of people feel better, and so to me I'm like, if you can have a less restrictive life, you already have enough things going on with diabetes. Let's make it less restrictive but also be able to still balance your blood sugar. I don't see any problem with it. So slow, steady exposure, I think, will be what ultimately saves it.
Philip Pape: 14:26
Yeah, and that sounds sustainable to me. Um, so then let's tie this all back to lifting, which we alluded to a little bit, but one of my favorite topics, uh, specifically your approach to training that makes the most sense for building muscle from a blood management perspective. And if the answer is look just any training approach that's effective to build muscle and strength is is all you need. But where I'm going with this is there's some, I understand, there's some science around blood sugar management, insulin sensitivity, with the training session itself, the, the stimulus, recovery, adaptation, inflammation, post-training and then the fact that you have this tissue on your frame and like is it more important to focus on neuromuscular strength versus hypertrophy? You know like I'm giving you a lot here, but it's also a blank canvas, so go for it.
Ben Tzeel: 15:14
Oh man, these are like the types of questions that make me wish that I had stuck with the PhD I was doing for a while. I was doing that before I became a dietician. I was like I'm going to go get a PhD and only study diabetes and macronutrient composition and body composition, and I would have been doing exactly what you're describing. And then I was like I'm going to be a dietician, I like people. So, that being said, with all of these questions, I would say from a training perspective, it all kind of folds into itself right, because, like you said, having more muscle at baseline ideally means more insulin sensitivity, easier for the muscle to have the ability to bring glucose into the cell. Everybody is happier that way. But at the same time, from a training perspective, if you train at all, there's potentially up to a 72-hour window of increased insulin sensitivity, depending on your level of training.
Ben Tzeel: 15:56
Now, someone like me I've trained for I don't know more than half my life, so at that point I'm probably not getting a 72-hour boost, I'm probably getting it closer to a 24-hour boost, but it's still something.
Ben Tzeel: 16:06
So my first step is for most people they're not doing anything. Hey, let's get you started working out with something that you like. I don't really care what it is, preferably there's resistance training a few times a week, but as you really start getting getting into the weeds, how can we get you from a hypertrophy standpoint and then some of the muscular endurance standpoint? I think a combination of those two. It doesn't have to be perfect, doesn't be any sort of, you know, linear, undulating periodization, but something of that nature where we can get both. We get the best of both worlds, where, hey, there's going to be muscle on your frame but also you have the ability, if you decide to go, you know, do some sort of crazy 20 rep set, you can still get through it and still get the benefits from an insulin sensitivity standpoint, cause for hours later you're going to be especially the first 12 hours you're going to be more sensitive.
Philip Pape: 16:48
Nice and are you an advocate of bulking cutting? You know you prefer people to stay at maintenance and do it slowly. Does it matter? Like it's preference?
Ben Tzeel: 16:55
I think it matters where your blood sugar control is. First, because in my mind I don't really want you doing anything crazy until I know your numbers are not going to look like the Rocky Mountains, because otherwise, at the end of the day, you know when your blood sugar is higher, everything's just is more dysfunctional because your blood literally moves slower to the body. It's like syrup instead of normal blood flow. So that's not going to help you with recovery. And then with low blood sugars you can't train. So if your blood sugar is constantly bouncing, we got to stabilize that first. Ideally, if somebody's eating too little and their metabolic rate is slow, fix that at the same time. Then say, okay, now let's go, body comp, let's go.
Philip Pape: 17:28
Yeah, I'm a big advocate of that as well Priming your body for success in a maintenance mode where you're not stressing it out with these other things. So once you've got that in place, tying it back to carbs, do you find people does it make a difference when folks like really throw in the carbs into their diet and they're trying to build muscle, or do you find that it's very personal?
Ben Tzeel: 17:48
I find it tends to be more energy balance focus and protein focus. But what I will say is, from a carb perspective, if you're trying to lift heavier, of course you and I both know it's going to be like rocket fuel. So you tell someone who's eating 80 grams of carbs per day oh hey, we're, we're going to slowly up at. Oh, now you're at 160. And suddenly they're deadlifting more than they've ever done and they're feeling amazing. That's probably just a function of the carbs, but from a carb standpoint I don't really feel like it's 100% necessary, like I've done.
Ben Tzeel: 18:13
Like you mentioned earlier in the intro, I've gone all the way down to 40 grams of carbs per day. I think I was eating 3,300 at maintenance and I was still lifting heavy and it was rough but I could still do it. And then, on the flip side, I've gone all the way up to close to 500 per day and it was great. Lifting was great. My blood sugars, on the other hand, not as amazing. At the time I was also in college, so different conversation, but it's definitely possible.
Philip Pape: 18:35
Yeah, it's good to understand that the experimentation you went through itself is the missing piece for a lot of folks, in my opinion, in that, like I think of clients who start with me, and I think of one in particular who was afraid of carbs and wanted to work with me just to eat more carbs. He doesn't have diabetes, but my answer to a question would be a question like why don't you try it and let me know? Because at the end of the day, that's all you can tell. So it sounds like when you get the blood sugar managed properly, when you're eating in a balanced way, when you've got some reasonable targets for your performance, for your activity, you can then start to tweak the dials right and push one way or the other and see, and that sounds like a nice, safe approach to do it, even if you are a little bit fearful at first, because you've proved to yourself right through the data where you're at. So what kind of data, what kind of metrics do you like to track?
Ben Tzeel: 19:23
So, of course, blood sugars right. For most, most of the people that come to our practice, they have a continuous glucose monitor or they have some way to measure their blood sugar consistent. So that's that's going to be imperative because, again, everything in my world and our world, you know, branches out from that. But I would say total macros are going to be massive as well. And especially, you know the calories and the protein. And, for our sake, we look at the carbs simply as a function of how do they relate to the blood sugars? Because, again, if someone comes in and they're eating 400 carbs a day, I'm not going to suddenly cut them to 200. I'm not going to increase it either.
Ben Tzeel: 19:53
I want to get an idea of okay, if we have this here, are your numbers any more steady now that you're paying closer attention? And then, from a training perspective, okay, how many days per week are you training? What's your intensity of your training? I like when people track the numbers. Not everybody does. Everyone's got a different commitment to activity and you know this only too well. But if I can get that data too, I love it. We'll look at labs, we'll look at the whole picture as much as we can, but typically from a diabetes standpoint, can we look at the food? Can we look at the blood sugars? How do they interlink? And then, ultimately, what decisions can we make based on this?
Philip Pape: 20:24
Cool and you mentioned labs. So what? What are you looking at there for blood work?
Ben Tzeel: 20:27
So of course, a1c cause that's going to be technically the you know the average of the blood sugar over the last three months a little more complicated, but generally the gist that one's going to be a big one. We do like thyroid because for two reasons. One, and especially in type one diabetes land, where it's almost like a buy one, get one free for autoimmune disorders, thyroid tends to be one of the ones that goes, and so we like to keep just an eye on that to ensure that that's not getting out of hand. And you know we don't prescribe but we'll tell people. Hey, we see this. Maybe consider talking to your doc about this, your endocrinologist or PCP, whoever those Two of the big ones.
Ben Tzeel: 20:57
We'll look at the CBC, cmp, all the lipids, just to make sure everything's behaving itself, and every now and then there's something that's off, but it's nothing typically wild. And for some of the men, especially as men get older, we do like to look at the testosterone, similar with women. We'll look at the estrogen because that can have a pretty big impact on blood sugar as well, especially as those levels start to decline.
Philip Pape: 21:18
Yeah, yeah, makes total sense. So then, like with the A1C, another thought that came to mind is the correlation between that and what are the biggest factors? Right, and I know, just simply managing your weight and body fat. You know, people are always surprised to learn how much of an impact that does have. Independent of everything else. What are your thoughts on, like, the two or three biggest hitters for A1C?
Ben Tzeel: 21:37
I would say the first one for A1C, I think far and away is is your? If you're on insulin, is your dosing on point? If you're not on insulin, is your medication on point? Because without that, at baseline right, you're going to be already behind the eight ball. And I don't care if someone's the best carb counter in the world, if your insulin to carb ratio is wrong, it's not going to matter. Your blood sugar is going to be all over the place. So that you know dosing mixed with carb counting and, technically, protein and fat counting, that's always far and away number one.
Ben Tzeel: 22:03
I would say number two would be the activity side of things, because with that I remember vividly, there was one patient usually trains like four or five days a week and he, for whatever reason, for two weeks just didn't train. His blood sugar average went up 15 points just from not training. Ate the same, everything else the same, just went up 15 points, which in A1C world that's going to be almost a half a point or a little more than half. That's a substantial difference, especially from a long-term complication risk. So that's going to always be number two. And then number three for A1C believe it or not, stress, stress will wreck you, absolutely wreck you.
Philip Pape: 22:36
Yeah, you mentioned stress. Isn't that the common denominator with everything, literally? You mentioned stress. Isn't that the common denominator with everything Like even um? I just recorded an episode about chronic inflammation and how, like, the biggest drivers are related to lifestyle. I mean, visceral fat is a driver, but, like you know, you and I talked about being sedentary and not having that blood flow and how that affects insulin sensitivity and blood sugar. Well, that's also stress. That's lifestyle. It's all interrelated and yet it's one of the things that it's not sexy to talk about. Right? Sleep and stress. We all need more sleep and less stress. So, speaking of stress, I think about things that stress our body. Right, one of those is a calorie deficit, but another would be potentially fasted training. I'm curious of your thoughts about fasted training. Yeah, yeah, just go.
Ben Tzeel: 23:19
As I sit here, literally having training, trained, fasted, right before we're talking right now.
Philip Pape: 23:24
OK so.
Ben Tzeel: 23:25
I personally do it. Some people love it, some people hate it. The reason I do it is twofold right, I don't have any insulin on board from any sort of boluses, which in my world, just makes life slightly simpler. So I don't have to worry about my blood sugar potentially falling off a cliff. And I don't have to worry about my blood sugar potentially falling off a cliff and I don't have to worry about any food in my system for that. Some people don't like it because oh, there should be something in your system before.
Ben Tzeel: 23:45
For me it's like from a muscle standpoint too. I know there's the potential for breakdown. I know there's ways to mitigate that. I just see as the tradeoff. I'm like, if I still hit my targets more down the average person, yes, but if it's, it's kind of in my mind it's like SPF 30, where you block 98% of the sun, or SPF 70 block 99. It's like is that little teeny 1% difference going to really make that big a difference? If my numbers are happier, which is going to make everything better in the longterm, I'll take the happier blood sugars. But I think it's. It's totally viable. Some people if their blood sugar still crashed, then they need to have a concern with that, but we'll work through it. But I I personally do it and I love it.
Philip Pape: 24:24
Cool, so you do it for blood sugar purposes.
Ben Tzeel: 24:27
Mainly blood sugar. Also just convenience, like I like just having it done, then I can do what I want to do. Cool.
Philip Pape: 24:32
Which is with intention, with purpose, like I think that's the main theme, is that people are thinking I should do fasted training because it's better for fat loss or something, and I and I think that that doesn't work. And also you, like you said you're you've got to look at the the cons and they're actually insignificant, like we know now from protein, recent protein research, that you could distribute it just about however you want and it's like like a couple percent difference right In outcomes. You know, and you it sounds like you've been training a long time so you've like got a big baseline, et cetera, et cetera. So yeah, I just wanted to get that out for people. It's like sure you can do it if it's convenient. It's like intermittent fasting, like the main reason you do that is it's probably convenient for you and maybe it helps you control your calories, right. Like it's not autophagy and longevity and all that stuff. Do you agree?
Ben Tzeel: 25:16
I'm going to laugh and say this too. I also intermittent fast and I only do it because I like eating two larger meals. I do not care about everything else. Like, that's just how I like to do it, and from an esophageal everything. If there's a little benefit, cool. But I'm not doing it because, oh, it'll.
Philip Pape: 25:29
You know for sure, help me live eight minutes longer per day, like no, it's just, you know, if you like it, like it, you know carnivore, keto, this and the other. I'm like look, if you like meat and liver and eggs as your diet, you love it. You think you can do that the rest of your life. You feel great, you perform, you're not worried about the consequences of not having fiber. You know whatever, uh, go for it, right, like it's not. I'm not here to tell you what to do or what not to do, but rather to say that don't let others fearmonger you into thinking you have to do this. It's like the two opposites. What is your biggest boogeyman right now that we haven't touched on in the industry?
Ben Tzeel: 26:09
Oh geez. I mean, besides carnivore which I don't even think carnivore is a problem I just don't think most people can stick to it for longer than three weeks. Yeah, that's the main thing. Yeah, Okay, glp ones Not even a question. Okay, okay, I don't think that's even a question. I think because it's everywhere, it's pervasive and it's it's fine. But I think a lot of people view them in a really skewed way, diabetes or not. Continue.
Philip Pape: 26:31
Tell me more when you say cause I yeah, no, we're probably on the same page with this, the nuance, but yeah, let me hear it.
Ben Tzeel: 26:37
So with it I mean the irony is they were initially developed for people with diabetes right, and for people with diabetes they can do amazing work and I'm grateful that they exist. But then, when it became old, they can help with weight loss. Everyone just assumes I'm going to take this thing, it'll be fine, and then I'll lose all this weight. And I mean the studies you've seen on the study show that once you get off of it, if you don't change anything, you're you're done for. You're just going to gain it all back.
Ben Tzeel: 26:59
And I tell people I'm like it's just, it's basically a manufactured calorie deficit because you're feeling disgusting so you don't want to eat anything. It's like you could do the same thing. You know you want to track and put in a little effort, but I always will say if you want to use it and I've had patients use them with amazing success and I think they're incredible If they're used as a springboard if you do everything else with them, if you do the nutrition side, if you do the exercise side and then from a blood sugar standpoint in our population, if you do the blood sugar have that on point it will work incredibly. I've had people lose well over 100 pounds and they're amazing, but the key is to not have it. So you're so reliant on them that the moment that they're out of the picture, you're completely SOL. That's the problem, and I think so many people just want to use them as this crutch and say it's the magic answer, and in that case it's not.
Philip Pape: 27:40
Yeah, okay, I 100% agree. I mean, that's what it comes down to. It's like and I know you referred to your holy trinity, I think, right, nutrition, training, blood sugar, and I guess for me, without thinking as much about the blood sugar, for nine diabetics it's like nutrition, training and lifestyle. Same idea. The whole thing is use it as a tool to help with the potentially gene-related appetite dysfunction you have with your brains, which we know is a real thing and it's exacerbated based on your history, and then do the lifestyle and then come off of it. And I also have worked with clients who, like on terzapatide, which is one of the more powerful ones who say like look, I am doing a lot of the things, but now I'm worried that when I come off, you know I'm just going to start gaining all the weight back and I think there's like a titration method for that. So, given that you work with diabetic population who's probably taking the original Ozempic right, like the OG for diabetes, how do you work with them to come off of that as a strategy?
Ben Tzeel: 28:32
And so the fun thing it's the two things I'll say. One is for Manjaro. For whatever reason, it just seems like it works better. Again, I've never taken it personally, but I've seen in the, in the probably three dozen people we've had who are on it, it always seems like Manjaro skews a better result. So Zempix kind of there calms the noise, but that's just. I forgot to mention that before.
Ben Tzeel: 28:49
So I want to make sure.
Ben Tzeel: 28:50
I said that, but from a from a titrating off standpoint, my biggest thing is making sure, from a metabolism standpoint, if we can make sure that you are eating an amount that's still reasonable.
Ben Tzeel: 28:59
Maybe you're in a deficit, ideally you're still in a deficit, but then we can slowly start to rebuild it back up and have them say, hey, I can know I can hit these targets every single day. I can hit these targets every single day. Then I have confidence that, as I need to reverse diet, if I choose to reverse diet and I want to eat more, I'm going to do so in a slow and controlled manner, because otherwise that's exactly what's going from a hunger standpoint, is going to go nuts and they're going to eat a bunch of more food than they're used to and the weight's going to come back, so it really just becomes hey, can we get you in a position where, as the doctor, I don't do any of the titration right, but as the doctor starts to bring it down, how can we make sure everything else in your life is set up for success?
Philip Pape: 29:43
So you don't have to stress fail-safes in place yeah, it's a good way to put it, Fail-safes and the titration and kind of increasing the calories or even going to maybe a little bit more aggressively over maintenance as you do it. Whatever strategy makes sense for folks, so that once the appetite kicks in you're actually eating enough, that appetite's not as much a concern versus continuing in a dieting phase as you come off, because that's definitely going to be challenging.
Ben Tzeel: 30:05
Not only is it going to be hellish, but then, if you're able to change the frame and say, hey, you are likely going to be eating a little bit more, your appetite's going to come back. How can we use this to our advantage? Are we going to go into maybe a more of a strength building phase, if you're able to get the mindset shift with that too?
Philip Pape: 30:25
I think it can do amazing things, but someone has to be ready for that point, or otherwise they're going to absolutely fail, totally agree. All right, I'm switching it up a little bit here because insulin pumps are an area that I know nothing about. I've known diabetes. I've seen the various technology. I always thought it was kind of interesting how they work and how they've evolved over time. But I guess the question is just maybe tell us a little bit about how it works. But also, do you know, do you take breaks from using it? How does that affect the blood sugar management with the other strategies that you work on?
Ben Tzeel: 30:48
Oh man, I was going to say I've been on a pump on and off, but mostly on since 2002, which is kind of crazy. So I've I've seen the evolution of a pump where you have to do all the math yourself and plug in everything to a pump where it does a lot of the work for you not everything, but a lot of it for you and can make your life a lot easier. So, in a nutshell, you know someone without a pump. You have type one diabetes or you're insulin dependent. You're taking an injection every time you eat, you're taking some sort of basal insulin, long acting, that will last the entire day. What a pump will do is it'll just be constantly giving you teeny little amounts 24, seven to function as that basal and every time you eat a meal you dial up and say, hey, I want to eat a meal, this is 30 grams of carbs. Boom, you take your dose and now you go eat and you're fine. So it makes life a lot simpler because you're taking fewer injections as long as the pump is working and there's algorithms now that can make life a lot easier. Oh, it sees, your blood sugar is going up a little bit. Here's a little bit insulin for you, so you don't have to actively correct it. So from a simplicity standpoint, it can help a lot. It also can shut your insulin down if it notices you're trending down. So for a lot of parents with kids, super, super helpful with these algorithms, for a lot of people that make life easier. It's amazing.
Ben Tzeel: 31:51
But I would say a couple of things that people get hung up on is they expect it to do everything for them, which it's not going to.
Ben Tzeel: 31:56
You still have to have some sort of active managing role.
Ben Tzeel: 31:58
But when the sites don't work like I'm on an Omnipod right now, which is the wireless one and when the sites don't work you're not getting insulin or you're not getting as much as you think you're getting, so suddenly you could eat a meal it's the same meal you eat every day but if you're not getting the amount of insulin you thought, your blood sugar is shooting up and there's no real way to bring it down until you replace that site or take an injection. So that's one of the big I'm going to call it cautionary but one of the big things that people have to realize is you have to have a backup plan for that, and there are times where I've gotten frustrated because I've had this for almost 26 years. I have scar tissue, so sometimes I run into issues of sight. So that's when I'll take a break, like you're alluding to, where I'll say I'm going to go on injections for a few days, or for a few weeks or a few months, depending how frustrated I am, and then I can always come back.
Philip Pape: 32:42
Cool man, Thanks for explaining that. Yeah, I wasn't 100% sure how they worked and wanted the audience to understand, and it's just another tool that you've got to be aware of, obviously as part of the strategy for managing the blood sugar. So kind of related or maybe not related, but I think you've said that diabetes can be a strength rather than a limitation. I'd love to hear your thoughts on what you mean by that can be a strength rather than a limitation.
Allan: 33:04
I'd love to hear your thoughts on what you mean by that. Hi, my name is Alan and I just want to give a shout out to Philip, pape of Wits and Weights for being a huge part of the foundation for my continued health and well-being. Philip exemplifies a nutrition coach who demonstrates how much he cares. Philip works tirelessly and with dedication to provide coaching, support and major content for us to use. He creates a practical approach from research and Philip empowers all of us to use food as quality for our health. He is skilled in how to assess and direct nutrition. Philip creates a community full of wisdom, support and camaraderie. In summary, philip Pate is the real deal. He knows how to assess and direct nutrition and he continues to steer me in the right direction. Thank you, philip.
Ben Tzeel: 33:55
So I think what was really tough was I was diagnosed at seven, right? So you're seven, you want to just make friends and have fun, live a second grade life, right? And you're not paying attention to this thing. And I kept getting told no, no, no, no, no. You can't get strong, you can't play sports, you can't lift, you can't have the cupcakes with your friends and it got really frustrating.
Ben Tzeel: 34:18
And so over the years at first I was I'd run into resistance, but I started realizing that the resilience standpoint I think it really builds a lot of resilience and it forces you to build a lot of resilience.
Ben Tzeel: 34:27
And also thinking about it from just a health standpoint, from you know, if you're looking at it as a positive, you're way more in tune with your health than the average person. Like somebody you know in a conversation who's listening to this is probably already in tune with lifting and working out and food, but someone who's not, you know, relative to that, you're way more. You have to be more in tune. I have to know everything that's going on in my body. I have to be paying attention to my sleep. There's 40 plus factors that can impact your blood sugar at any given moment. I need to be paying attention to these things. So, while it takes up a lot of bandwidth, I feel like from a longevity standpoint as long as blood sugars are maintained, I think in a really weird way this is keeping me on my toes and more accountable, because you get real immediate feedback if you're not paying attention.
Philip Pape: 35:07
Yeah, yeah, To the point where it threatens your very physiology and your life. I imagine you know not to find a point on it. So then, based on that, what you've learned and kind of the insights you've had, are there a couple of big lessons that you like to share with folks, whether they are dealing with diabetes or not, for training, nutrition, whatever, and it could be mindset, could be psychology you've taken away from that experience.
Ben Tzeel: 35:29
I think one huge thing I've seen again with myself with patients is you have to everyone has to understand, from a consistency standpoint, you're not gonna just explode to perfection right away.
Ben Tzeel: 35:40
And so with your blood sugars right, if you're like my, numbers are way higher than they should be, you can't expect in two weeks your blood sugars are going to be perfect. If you're trying to lose 50 pounds, you didn't take two weeks to, you know, gain the 50 pounds. You're probably not going to take two weeks to lose it. So I think, just keeping expectations tempered and enjoying the ride along the way it's with life in general, lifting and lifting pretty moderate, heavy to heavy, a good amount of time, typically solves a lot of problems that otherwise would you know, would be very nasty. So I've just, the more I've done it, I've like, oh, I got into this when I was 14. Like I really love lifting, I don't think I understood the benefit at the time and the significance you start when you're 14 for aesthetics and for sports, but realizing as a lifelong thing this is massive for people with diabetes.
Philip Pape: 36:32
Yeah, and I would extend that to say it is massive for everyone, because that message is the message I try to share on every podcast I go on and I'm surprised sometimes when I talk to a health coach who's like, well, I don't really lift weight, like you're missing out on the biggest piece of the pie in my opinion. So you know, I love what you said about. You know, you can't explode to perfection. We are not just a society, but as a species we want to get things solved. Like once we know we have a goal, we want to go after it, we want to get it solved and we're like you know how do we make that happen as quickly as possible? And so when you combine that with realistic expectations like it's going to take time and enjoying the ride, meaning you know what you could still get dopamine hits and short-term wins. Anyway, if you're smart about, like, constructing the process the right way, it can all work out.
Philip Pape: 37:17
I was talking to Nick Delgadillo. He's the CEO of Starting Strength Gyms and he was talking about how, like, new lifters will get that self-motivation once they start seeing the results come fast, especially when you're you know, you're squatting three times a week and weight's going up every time, but then after a certain period of time it starts to get really hard and the progress starts to slow down and you can't just necessarily be a lifter for its own sake, right, you have to kind of parlay that into maybe a sport or something you enjoy or whatever. And I joked because I said, well, I actually do love lifting and some people just love it for its own sake. He's like cool, you're the easiest person to coach, aren't you? What are your thoughts on that in terms of people who don't lift regularly and are listening, being consistent, getting in the gym, thinking it's not something for me or I don't like it? How do I get to like it? You know those things. How do I start? How do I be consistent? How do I become a lifter for life?
Ben Tzeel: 38:08
I think, and I think for some people I've talked to especially, they're even nervous about the gym, right, because there's, oh my God, everyone's going to be watching me and looking. When nobody actually cares and I think they'll be nice and supportive, but if they're in their heads I'll be like let's get you started with something at home. You know, you can get a couple of resistance bands you can get, you can use your body weight and you can do a lot with just those two things. But you know, then you add in, you know, a couple of little weights and then, when you're comfortable, hey, let me go into the gym and let me make it a twice a week thing. I'm going twice a week for half an hour. I's add that third day, let's add that fourth day, let's extend it by 10 minutes.
Ben Tzeel: 38:43
Suddenly you look back and a year from now, you just went from I'm barely squeaking in there twice a week for 30 minutes to I'm here four times a week for an hour. And as you start to see those games like you were alluding to, people start to see that and they're like I want to keep seeing these games, I want to see this progress. I see the changes in my body, and that's, I feel like, how people tend to at least from what I've seen fall in love with. It is they see the progress, but then also they don't realize until they look back whoa, I'm here way more than I'd ever thought I would be.
Philip Pape: 39:10
For sure. Take the action, get the result, get the motivation and make sure to look back what's happened in the before and after you have to, and I'm bad at that myself.
Ben Tzeel: 39:26
There are times where I'm like, wow, I just didn't. And I'm like, oh, but I was supposed to do that, and so that's a problem that I've worked on all the time where I'm like I need to give myself some credit. But to that point right. I vividly remember to one patient where she started out eating 40 grams of protein a day and she thought that was a lot, and a year later she was at 150 grams, just plowing, and she was like I ate 150 grams of protein every day. I'm like, yeah, remember when you could only eat 40? And she's like, how did I live? I was like, great, great question. Only you can answer that.
Philip Pape: 39:45
Exactly.
Ben Tzeel: 39:46
But that's, I think, a way to kind of summarize that part where you don't realize how much you've done until you look back and say, wow, that was awesome.
Philip Pape: 39:53
For sure. Always good to have some mindset psychology on the show, because that's what a lot of times people struggle with, not just the nuts and bolts and the information. So we've addressed some fear mongering, we've addressed some myths, we've addressed blood sugar management. Speaking of blood sugar, I guess you and I talked before we recorded about some of the hot, spicy topics. I guess what would be something that's, I guess, on the dangerous side that is being promoted by the gurus and the fitfluencers related to blood sugar, that they just totally get it wrong and it could actually hurt people maybe.
Ben Tzeel: 40:23
Man, that is a good one, because I feel like a lot of them everybody still talks about you know, oh, when you're done working out, you better have this massive insulin spike. So you better spike your blood sugar with all these carbs and, like I wouldn't even say it's necessarily dangerous, it's been around since I started lifting no-transcript. Probably not going to work for me. You don't need to actually do that. From what I've seen in the research has shown you don't really have to do that either, but I haven't seen tons of craziness. I'm sure there is. I also don't always go looking for it, which is probably for my own sanity's sake, because I see enough stuff about nasty blood sugars and how to cure your diabetes and getting told that you can eat random things. So I see enough of that and I'm like I don't want to fill my brain with more trash.
Philip Pape: 41:18
All right, I get that man. Yeah, I wish I could just like get rid of social media altogether and just delete it all and there's days I'm like could I live off the grid, would it be fun?
Ben Tzeel: 41:28
And then I'm like, no, I'm like two days, I want to see what people are doing.
Philip Pape: 41:30
Exactly All right. So then let's go more moderate approach. I alluded to fiber once, I think, talking about carnivore. What role does it play in blood sugar control? Is it necessary Because some people say, well, it's not essential, just like carbs aren't essential? What are your thoughts on fiber?
Ben Tzeel: 41:44
I don't know if I'd go so far to say necessary, but I would say doing two things. One would be slowing down the potential blood sugar spike. So you eat a meal and if your blood sugar would have gone I'm just going to throw out arbitrary numbers If it would have gone to 180, if you've got a good amount of fiber, maybe you're only going to 140 just because it slows digestion so much. I think and I don't have all of the fun super in-depth data on this, but I do know from a gut health perspective there's a lot of links with gut health and blood sugars and the microbiome and the different possibilities of if your microbiome's off, your blood sugar control could get worse. That's, I think, the bigger thing with fiber is. I think there's a lot of impact on the gut that people don't pay attention to.
Philip Pape: 42:24
Yeah, I agree, and it's. I don't think there are any very many people who are educated enough or expert enough to convey the full answer, but, um, there is someone. Oh man, what's his name? Justin Cottle. Do you know Justin Cottle? He's, he's a. He is an anatomy researcher. Uh, he worked at the anatomy lab. It's the big one. I forget the name he's. He's also a YouTuber now.
Philip Pape: 42:46
Really nice guy, actually remind me a lot of him Cause he's. He's very nuanced. You know, positive guy, doesn't want to like fear monger, any of this stuff and he'll give you a really good explanation of the whole, uh, digestive tract and like how fiber affects the microbiota and how diverse sources of fiber and different even eating different apples on different days, you know the different pectins from the different skins will feed that bacteria and we just don't know. So I worry that someone eating carnivore 20 years from now will they have some effect that we haven't been able to study yet because of the length. But you know, we know having fiber has positive outcomes. So I don't know what having no fiber, what the outcome is going to be, is the question.
Ben Tzeel: 43:24
Yeah, I don't know if I want to know, honestly, because even in, like the keto people, at least they're getting fiber. It may be crazy amounts that might be manufactured, but it's something.
Philip Pape: 43:33
For sure, for sure, all right, man. Well, with all of this stuff, is there anything that we didn't cover? Anything you wished I would have asked, and then what would your answer be?
Ben Tzeel: 43:42
Man, honestly it's one of the most fun in-depth ones I've gotten to do in a long time, so I'm feeling like we covered a lot of stuff. I don't want to overdo it, Cool man.
Philip Pape: 43:52
No, that works. That works. I think you covered all the main points. Where do you want people to look yourself up and learn more about this?
Ben Tzeel: 43:58
I would say if people are interested, diabetes or not, my team and I are able to work with you, know people from all walks of life who want that nutritional insight, especially in relation to blood sugars, but at man of zeal on Instagram and Tik TOK. So M a N O F T Z E E L. And then your diabetes insidercom is the place for you know what our team does. We've got free stuff on there. We've got tons of different freebies, opt-ins and knowledge for you to be able to learn more about diabetes and make your life better.
Philip Pape: 44:25
And there's a podcast too, right.
Ben Tzeel: 44:27
There is a podcast, the your Diabetes Insider podcast, very cleverly named so that one's a lot of fun if you want to hear some more real, raw rants and fun nuanced diabetes knowledge.
Philip Pape: 44:36
For sure, yeah, so we'll throw those in the show notes. Manofzeal at IG. That's with the silent T in there Yourdiabetesinsidercom and yourdiabetesinsiderdiabetes. I'm sorry, I flipped them. Which is the domain? The domain is.
Ben Tzeel: 44:50
Oh, yourdiabetesinsidercom and then yourdiabetesinsiderpodcast. Okay, okay, so super original on the podcast no no no, that's good.
Philip Pape: 44:57
I switched the podcast name, All right, man. Well, yeah, no, it's been a lot of fun. Ben, I appreciate your approach to all of this and I like that people have, you know, the flexibility no matter whether they're on the diabetes or not to really kind of eat and train in a lot of different ways, as long as they're doing it and living an active lifestyle right. Just not for blood sugar alone, but just just to thrive. So thank you so much for sharing that message.
Ben Tzeel: 45:19
I'm just grateful that I got to chat with you and hopefully educate some people, diabetes or not, that you know it doesn't have to restrict your life.
Philip Pape: 45:26
Awesome. So great for having you on. Thanks for coming on.
Ben Tzeel: 45:29
Thank you.
