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Philip Pape 3/5/24 Philip Pape 3/5/24

Ep 152: My Complete Muscle-Building Nutrition Blueprint (Bulking to Get Lean and Fit Over 40)

Philip shares how he built 10 more pounds of muscle at 43 and your complete nutrition and training blueprint for doing the same thing. He discusses why you would want to gain weight on purpose, the fear of weight gain while building muscle, and the exact protocol behind it. Philip also talks about four bulking scenarios, how to distribute your macros, training principles, a new mantra to frame your mental state, and many more.

Today, Philip (@witsandweights) hosts a live training with the Wits and Weights community. He shares how he built 10 more pounds of muscle at 43 and your complete nutrition and training blueprint for doing the same thing.

He discusses why you would want to gain weight on purpose, the fear of weight gain while building muscle, and the exact protocol behind it. Philip also talks about four bulking scenarios, how to distribute your macros, training principles, a new mantra to frame your mental state, and many more.

Philip also shares a downloadable bonus guide, his Muscle-Building Nutrition Blueprint, that details the EXACT steps to set up your nutrition, training, recovery, and tracking to build as much muscle as possible (while minimizing fat gain) for an effective bulking phase.

Today, you’ll learn all about:

1:16 Why would you gain weight on purpose?
3:58 What is bulking, and what drives it?
6:13 Why Philip doesn't recommend scales of fat percentage sensors?
7:52 Four different bulking scenarios
2:07 Your rate of gain and tracking what you eat
15:16 How do you distribute your macros?
18:32 Should you eat carbs before or after a workout?
23:26 How do I compensate for missing carbs after cutting out alcohol?
24:13 Do you adjust the next few days if you exceed your calories?
25:22 Training principles
30:11 New mantra to frame your mental state
32:10 Things you can track
35:05 Philip's muscle-building phase
41:35 Outro

Episode resources:

Episode summary:

Embarking on a journey of muscle growth can often be shrouded in myths and misconceptions, particularly when it comes to bulking. Many individuals, especially women, fear the process, concerned that it will lead to excessive fat gain or an undesired bulky appearance. However, with the right strategies in place, bulking can lead to substantial and transformative muscle growth, all the while enhancing metabolism and forging a healthier body composition.

The podcast episode is not just about crafting an impressive physique; it is about empowering individuals with knowledge and tools to achieve physical self-mastery. With the host's personal experience of adding 10 pounds of muscle at 43, the episode offers listeners a pragmatic nutrition and training blueprint, irrespective of their dietary preferences or fitness levels.

The conversation tackles the process of bulking head-on, dispelling fears and providing a clear path forward. One of the primary focuses is on the importance of a calorie surplus coupled with a balanced intake of macronutrients. Protein, the building block of muscle, is emphasized, with the recommendation of consuming 0.71 grams per pound of body weight for effective muscle synthesis.

Furthermore, the episode delves into the intricacies of various bulking strategies, highlighting the optimal range of gaining body weight as a balance between muscle gain and fat control. For beginners or those who have taken a hiatus from training, a more aggressive approach may be warranted, with the potential for gaining a bit more.

Flexibility in nutrition is another key topic, with the discussion including a range of dietary preferences, from carnivorous to vegetarian. The importance of including a variety of protein sources, digestible carbohydrates, and healthy fats is outlined, as well as the potential for incorporating smoothies and treats to maintain mental well-being and diet sustainability.

Tracking progress is another pillar of successful bulking, and the episode emphasizes the need for a robust tracking tool to measure weight and muscle gains accurately. The psychological aspect of bulking is not neglected, with strategies to maintain motivation and navigate the challenges of mini-cuts presented.

Lastly, the episode touches on the broader impacts of muscle gain, including increased metabolic rate, improved body composition, and the psychological benefits of achieving personal fitness goals. The host's message is clear: with the right mindset and a tailored approach to diet and training, anyone can unlock the secrets to substantial muscle growth.

As the podcast wraps up, Philip invites listeners to engage with the community and continue their journey toward achieving their dream physique. The episode serves as a powerful reminder that bulking, when done correctly, can be an empowering process leading to a stronger, healthier, and more confident self.

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Transcript

Philip Pape 00:00

You can intuitively build muscle if you've never done it before, while also optimizing the process. So you can gain muscle, but you might gain a lot of fat. Or you might have a bunch of plateaus on the way if you try to do it intuitively, versus just getting the result you want as quick as possible. Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host, Philip Pape. And this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger, optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry. So you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in Wits & Weights

Philip Pape 00:41

community Welcome to another episode of the Wits & Weights podcast. So we are here today in our live training with the community talking about how I built 10 more pounds of muscle at the age of 43. And more specifically, the complete nutrition and training blueprint for how to do that. And if you're listening and watching, if you're watching the replay, you get a bonus guide that goes along with this that is much more detailed. And I might bring that up here in the training later on. But we're just gonna dive right in and talk about these topics, those who are alive through your questions in the chat. And we're just going to start by answering the question like Why would you gain weight on purpose? You know, a lot of people it's obvious, a lot of guys especially are like, yeah, I get I want to gain I want to build muscle makes sense. A lot of women might be fearful, some guys are fearful, you know, there's no gender divides when it comes to a fear of gaining weight, because so many of us have spent our lives dieting, not dieting, dieting, not dieting, and kind of chasing that number on the scale thinking that that's going to get us where we want to be for how, how we look how we feel, whatever, whatever reason we're going after. However, if you just just do some simple math with me here, if you weigh 150 pounds at 20% body fat, which for a male is kind of average above average, maybe probably average for most men, if not a little bit less for females just add 10% to that, if you're on a 50 pounds 20% body fat at the age of 30. And then you don't do anything the rest of your life in terms of training, or nutrition, which is the majority of people, right? Most people are not resistance training. Most people don't eat enough protein, etc. And what do you gain or lose weight over time, you're gonna lose 1% of your muscle every year. So after 30 years, by the time you're 60, you've now lost pounds and pounds of muscle. If on the other hand, you start training, you start eating the right way, even if you don't gain a lot of weight, right, even if you don't go on a muscle building phase just to maintain your weight, you are going to have at least avoid losing that muscle. And then if you do what we're talking about today, and you take time to build muscle, you can add 20 3040 pounds of muscle in your lifetime. For men, it's 40, maybe a little more for women, it's like 30. That's a lot of muscle. And if you just do simple math and say okay, I go from 150 pounds to 180 pounds of pure muscle, which implies that you've gained maybe you've done a fat loss you've gained to go down to fat loss over time to get there, you're going to be at a lower body fat percentage, right. So you're going to be like 16% body fat at 180 pounds. And so that's a that's a profound thing to just let sit with your brain that you can be 30 pounds heavier, but look leaner look more well muscled, get the physique, you're actually going for the shape that you're going for. Not only that, it gives you a higher metabolism, your baseline metabolic rates higher because muscle is more expensive, and your overall metabolisms higher because you're just carrying more weight, everything you do takes more energy, you can push more in the gym, etc. And then that means you can eat more. And that means fat loss is easier. And that means you're not dieting all the time you're instead energized all the time, energy fullness, food freedom, whenever you want. So that's what we're going for right? Throw in the chat if that's not what you want, in which case, today's session is not appropriate for you. Okay, so let's keep going. Alright, so let's bulk right, what is bulking? Exactly? The word itself scares some people because they don't want to get bulky, especially women I talked to but you know, you're not going to look like Arnold, I would love to look like Arnold It is never gonna happen. It's fat fat. It'll never happen without steroids. But I can still, you know, look great, especially for my age. And you can too. And so bulking is just the idea of gaining weight deliberately to gain muscle. There's four things that drive an effective bulk. And if you miss out on any of these, it's going to be significantly less effective and lead to more fat loss or just just not just fits and starts. And you can see those on the screen but they are your surplus. So that's eating more calories than you burn. Number two is protein getting sufficient protein, which is the building blocks of your muscle tissue in the form of amino acids, that's protein. So we're going for around a gram per pound of body weight is the universal evidence base standard. You can be a little bit less than that in a bit. loading phase to be honest, you can be as low as point seven and be just fine. Some guys, some women love protein love to eat meat. And they're higher than that. There's always a trade off with fats and carbs. So being at that minimum is what's important. Number three is training for progressive overload. This is honestly the one that most people miss. And by Miss, I mean, they might be going to the gym, they might be training, but they're not doing it effectively. They're not actually progressing over time, in some form of intensity volume sets, you know, to actually demonstrate that they're getting stronger and putting those calories to good use building muscle. And then number four is recovery. A lot of people shortchanges, they're like, Well, I'm eating more food. So recovery is less important. But sleep, protecting your joints, lifting in a way that allows you to get to the gym the next time, so you're not excessively sore, or have you know, achy joints, or give yourself tendinitis are all important ways to continue that building phase efficiently. And quickly, just like in fat loss, we want to get it over and done. Well, in a building phase, we want to actually, you know, pack on that muscle, because we know there's fat coming along for the ride. So you kind of want to balance the two as best you can. And then I see some questions coming in the chat. I'll either answer them if that makes sense. Or I'll hold off on them. Let's go with this one. I think I heard a podcast you don't recommend scales of fat percentage sensors. Why? What do you recommend set question for later, okay, I'm just going to answer that. Because they're inaccurate, they're highly inaccurate. So whatever number they tell you, you can't believe they could be off on any given day. However, if you take the trend over time, they tend to be much more valid. So if it says you're 22%, body fat, you might be 17, you might be 27. But if it says 22 Now, and then 21, the next week, and then 20, the next week and 19, the next week, you're probably losing fat. So that's it. Okay, so the the four drivers of the bulk, as I said, with a surplus, the protein, the training, the recovery. And then there's one more, that's kind of a bonus, but a lower priority. And that's the timing of nutrients. I'm a firm believer that you shouldn't train fasted, unless there's a really good reason to, and also that you can be smart about timing your carbs and protein around your workouts to give you more performance, and thus, more out of your training. Okay, so let's keep going here. Are we talking about the C food diet, SCE food diet here, a lot of people when they think of bulking, they think just eat whatever you want, you gain a bunch of weight. As long as I'm gaining weight, I'm gaining muscle. Yes, I know that if you're gaining weight, you probably are gaining some muscle if you're doing the other things. But we also don't want to gain too much fat. And the first book I ever did was back in 2019 and 20 timeframe. And I did just that I drink a bunch of whole milk, I eat a bunch of processed foods, I eat whenever I wanted, I didn't track and again, like 50 pounds and a few months, including a lot of muscle, but also a lot of fat, and then it took time to cut it off. I'm going to lay out the four different scenarios here. And why I think one of them is optimal for most people. Okay, so the first one is a lean bulk when people think lean gain, main gain. What's What's the other words people use? Gain tain right? They think, Okay, I'm going to gain as slowly as possible so that I don't gain any fat. But I still gain muscle. The problem with that approach is now you're just stretching out for many more months, if not years, the time it takes to build the same amount of muscle you could have built in a few months, and then cut off the fat in like a month or two, you know, the timescales don't make a lot of sense, unless you're okay, delaying the muscle gain, because you just don't want to be in a fat loss phase ever. And that's a valid reason. If you never want to diet ever, and you just want to take longer doing this process, you can do that. The second rate of gain, okay, so for those listening, the lean bulk is very barely above maintenance. So like point one 2.2% of your body weight a week, in that time in that rage, a little bit more aggressive than that is what I would call the optimal range. And that is point two to point 3% of your body weight per week. Now, this is been held up time and again by studies including one by Dr. Eric helms at all that came out in 2023. It was reviewed in mass. I had Dr. Bill Campbell on the show, and he talked about it. And I think I did a whole episode on it as well. So I'm pretty confident that this rate again, from my own experience, as well, is solid, and it's not that aggressive, but it's aggressive enough that you're gonna see meaningful weight gain over time. So point two to point 3% body weight per week is that sweet spot where your use an individual can probably maximize muscle and not leave much on the table, but also avoid getting too fat. Okay? However, if you're a beginner, or if you're D trained and you have or you haven't been training effectively for a while, you might want to go a little more aggressive and this is what I call the aggressive rate of gain. And that's point three to half a percent body weight a week. And you'll see this recommended by a lot of coaches. You'll see A male centered coaches like guys, like Danny Morgan, or Cody McBroom, or whoever might talk about these rates of gains like half a percent of your body weight a week, yeah, you're gonna gain a little more fat, but you'll definitely gain all the muscle. However, I think it's too aggressive for late intermediate or late novice, early, intermediate or more advanced athlete. If you're a beginner, however, I would go for that, because your body is going to respond favorably to the muscle building signal, and probably pack on a really good ratio of fat to muscle. All right, and then the most aggressive rate is the dirty or dreamer bulk, right, the one that I went through before and I don't know, maybe raise your hand, if you've tried this before, it's kind of like the easiest one to do. And, and it's fine, but you're just going to gain a ton of fat. And the only reason I would suggest doing this, either, you're a beginner, and you're totally cool with the fat game, maybe you're lean, maybe you're skinny, 22 year old male. And it's like totally worth going after that for your first novice linear building phase. Or if you're trying to push your max lifts. So here's a very interesting thing. I used to have a theory that if I pushed the amount of weight that I gained, that the muscle would scale up, because now I'm able to lift a lot more. We know that like adding tons of weight, mass moves mass, your lifts go up. Why would that translate extra muscle, but what we find is beyond this optimal rate of gain, you're only gaining pure fat. And the strength gains are not relative, their absolute, meaning the you're only gaining, you're only gaining strength because your weight is going up, you're not actually getting stronger relative to your weight. And that makes sense because of leverages cross sectional area, all that that gives you a better ability to push more force, but you're not gaining more muscle doing it. So if you're a power lifter, if you're going after competition, you don't max lifts for that reason, strongman, whatever, yeah, maybe it worked. Maybe it makes sense for you, right? Other than that I would go with aggressive for beginners are optimal for everyone else. Alright, so we have questions in the chat, if anything is not clear as we move forward. So how much should you eat, I'm going to suggest that you have two options. One is make it easy for yourself, use macro factor, use my code Wits, & Weights for the free trial, try it out, you're going to love it, and it's going to calculate everything for you. Because this can get a little bit complicated, it actually gets more complicated than losing fat. Okay, and I'll explain why in a second. So if you want to do it by hand, just for fun, or because you don't want to use an app and you want to make it hard on yourself, which is fine. And then update it every week, based on your metabolism, this is how you would do it. First, you will find your maintenance calories, the only way to do that accurately, is not a wearable, not a calculator. It's to track your food for two or three weeks while you maintain your weight as best you can. Whatever you ate on average, is your is your metabolism, it's very hard to do by hand. So I suggest just using macro factor get moving past it and being efficient, but you do it by hand. That's how you do it. Now once you've got your maintenance calories, let's say it's 2500, you're gonna pick a rate of gain, like we just talked about. So aggressive or optimal, most likely. So we're going to say for this example optimal at point 3%. And then you're just going to calculate your weekly gain as your wait times the rate. So here we go. The, in this example, imagine you're 180 pounds, and you want to gain rate at point 3% pounds a week. 180 times point 3% is point five, four pounds a week, it's about a half a pound a week, right about a little over two pounds a month. So the surplus you you need to eat above your maintenance calories is only five, four pounds a week times the 2500 calories divided by seven days. All right, a lot. I know it's a lot of math here. So so that gives you 193 calories. Now you're probably wondering where does 2500 come from? Okay, you've probably heard of the 3500 Calorie rule when you lose fat. A pound of adipose tissue is about 40 4200 calories and a pound of muscle tissues about 800 Something calories, because it's much more dense. If you subtract the two, you get 3500 calories. Well, when we're losing weight, we just want to lose fat. So we calculate for fat. When you're gaining muscle, you want to gain some muscle and some fat. You don't want to gain fat, but you're going to and assuming a 5050 ratio, right? Because it's another question you might have, I would say most people can assume 5050 is in the ballpark of what they're gonna get. And my last two building phases. That's exactly what happened with me when I wanted that optimal rate. If you do that, and you say, Okay, I'm gonna take half of a pound of adipose tissue and half of a pound of muscle tissue and add them together, you get 2500 calories, not 3500 calories. So a lot of people might be gaining too quickly, thinking they're gaining at a certain rate when they're actually getting more fat because of that, okay, so the surplus you need is probably less than you think. And this is how you would calculate it. If you use macro factor. It does it for for you, and it adapts to you, as it realizes that you are gaining at a slightly different ratio than 5050. So if you gain more quickly or slower than it expected, it knows you're actually gaining a different ratio of muscle to fat. And we'll adjust accordingly each week. Okay, macros are next people wonder how do I distribute my macros. So again, macro factor will do this really well for you, based on the evidence, but let's start with Protein Protein is the muscle macro array, we needed to build new tissue, we're going to aim for point seven, one gram per pound of body weight. And so in the same example, we just use, if you're 180 pounds, you're going to eat 130 to 180. It's a big wide range. And if you're not already eating sufficient protein, I would say, figure that out first, at maintenance, understand what foods you can choose to get there. And then once that's locked down, you know you'll you'll be ready to go into your building phase. For most people, I recommend eating two to five feedings a day for practical purposes. Many of you probably heard the recent study, the big meta analysis that showed that you could even eat 100 grams of protein all at once, and your body is still going to use that effectively over time by just extending the window of muscle protein synthesis. But who wants to get 100 grams of protein in one meal, that's that's the thing. So in reality, you're trying to scarf down 3000 Plus calories a day for most people, women is probably less and you don't want to feel distended when you eat. And you want to be able to eat throughout the day and not feel hungry. So two to five feedings says it makes sense for most people, practically speaking, there's no need to fast, definitely no need to train fasted, and you're not trying to lose weight. So just eat. That's at the end for hard gainers. That's one of the problems is they come to me say, Look, I can't lose weight, how many times you get in a day three times, okay, we hit that's part of the problem, let's eat four or five, six so that you get more of an appetite. All right, fats, fats are pretty simple. I like.

Philip Pape 16:56

Generally for my clients, I just tell them eat what they like, and the fats are going to work themselves out, especially in the gaining phase. But if you need a number 20 to 30% of calories is in the ballpark for most people. If you're more, if you come from a low carb environment where you ate a lot more fattier foods like dairy, meat and such eggs, you can go a little higher, it's just going to eat into the carbs a bit, but you have a lot of calories to work with. So 20 to 30% is reasonable. And then the rest of the calories come from carbs. And why do we need carbs for muscle building? I am going to say that is almost 0% of the time do you want to go low carb while you're building muscle, unless there's a medical reason, like if it's related to diabetes, type one diabetes, particularly if you've got some sort of intolerance to like a million carb based foods, or something like that. Otherwise, I want you to experiment with your body and performance. Bringing those carbs up to a decent level which could be to something three something 400 Something grams of carbs, which might sound crazy to a lot of you I did a whole episode called more muscle, more carbs. And I got some hate on that from the people who are just anti carbs still, and I don't get it. Because we do it. If you do it and you try it, you'll see what it does for your lifts for the amount of reps you can bang out in the gym, for how you sleep, or how you recover. I mean, the list goes on and on. And we know from the evidence you can build five times as much muscle having moderate high carbs versus a low carb or keto approach. I'm not saying you can't build muscle on keto. I'm not saying that's not what you like, don't do it. I'm just saying if you're agnostic to it, go for the carbs. Got a comment in the chat? Let's see. Would it make a difference to eat the carbs within an hour or two after the workout? If during the day carbs have been part of the diet? Intake nighttimes my preferred time for workouts within an hour or two after the workout? If during the day carbs have been part? Would it make a difference? Oh, you're saying after. So bowling No, not as much. That's a good point. If it's at nighttime, and you want to get to sleep and you don't want your sleep interrupted by your digestion, and you're working out that late, I would say experiment number one. But number two, I think it's more important to get the carbs ahead of time, then necessarily afterward and then the next day you're just going to refuel anyway. But like with any of these these very specific answers, I would say experiment with yourself for like two weeks and see how it affects your sleep. See how it affects your recovery and see how it affects your performance the next time in the gym. Okay, so protein carbs around workout sets. So my general recommendation is like within an hour or two before within an hour or two after have some protein and carbs have like 2530 grams of protein or more and have at least a one to one or more of carbs to protein. Hey, this is Philip and I hope you're enjoying this episode of Wits & Weights, I started Wits & Weights to help people who want to build muscle lose fat and actually look like they lift. I've noticed that when people improve their strength and physique, they not only look and feel better, they transform other areas of their life. their health, their mental resilience and their confidence in everything they do. And since you're listening to this podcast, I assume you want the same things the same success, whether you recently started lifting, or you've been at this for a while and want to optimize and reach a new level of success. Either way, my one on one coaching focused on engineering your physique, and body composition is for you. If you want expert guidance and want to get results faster, easier, and with fewer frustrations along the way to actually look like you lift, go to wits & weights.com, and click on coaching, or use the link in my show notes to apply today, I'll ask you a few short questions to decide if we're a good fit. If we are, we'll get you started this week. Now, back to the show.

Philip Pape 20:46

Alright, so as far as what should you eat, I don't want to spend too much time on this. When I work with clients, I don't give them meal plans, like I want, I want people to come up with their own meal plan based on the options available to you based on what you like, and your lifestyle and preferences. But I'll help you figure that out. It's pretty simple. You need a lot of everything. So everything goes. That's the general idea here. You know, 80 90% Whole Foods is always a great approach with the rest of it being indulgences as opposed to 100% Whole Foods, which can be unsustainable, as well as hardly any a Whole Foods, which isn't great for your health. So starting with protein, you've got me you've got dairy, you've got plant based proteins as well. You know, if you're vegetarian, you have the option to go higher fat like ribeyes instead of sirloin, like a whole milk versions of dairy instead of one or 2%. So this is your option, add a little more flavor and pizzazz to your food. Carbs anything goes but like white rice, and potatoes and fruits are great sources of carbs that go down pretty easy, could add more calories. If you need them in the form of olive oil, maybe a little butter. I don't like lots of butter, because the saturated fat but some butter in your stir fry. And in your, you know, rice can be delicious. Smoothies are a great way to just breathe, digest a bunch of food. So it goes down easy if you need the calories. And then indulgences like this is your moment, if you like the bagels and you weren't eating that during fat loss, or if you like ice cream or pizza or whatever, have it, have it occasionally. And give yourself that mental relief to say yeah, this is a flexible approach. I love living this way. But I'm not going to do a dreamer bulk of like, you know, candy and junk food and pizza doughnuts all the time. Alcohol is the other thing I wanted to address. Alcohol is never a positive for your health just period. It just never is. But it's a lifestyle thing. And it's your choice. If you enjoy it for other reasons, it does increase fat storage, it does inhibit muscle protein synthesis, and it does disrupt sleep. And it does increase your visceral fat accumulation as part of the fat that you're gaining. So if you want to avoid all those things, I would limit or replace alcohol with non alcoholic versions. I'm a big fan of na beer these days, there's a lot of great brands and even non alcoholic liquor is available. So give that a shot. Let's see a cut out alcohol and I'm having trouble making up for the missing carbs. Okay, so I want to poke at that Aaron because alcohol does have some carbs I agree but it also has a lot of other empty calories. It's called it's you know, its energy, its alcohol, but it has to get metabolized by the body and it doesn't get used for anything other than fat storage. Missing carbs. I'm feeling my finding myself full but still needing more calories and the foods jessen's To replace the alcohol. I mean, you could have that's where you could have a beverage if you're looking for a beverage you can have a smoothie of some kind with dense foods in there, you know, think anything based on a nut like peanut butter, think adding oil to foods like that, you know, more refined carbs, which I know is like a huge nono in some spaces. Like we're fine. No, everything's got to be the whole or brown varieties. But like white rice, white pasta based foods, if you're gluten tolerant, not everybody is. But if you're gluten tolerant, it's a long list. Fruit. Also, you know, the more denser fruits that are that have a lot of calories. So what else comes to mind if you if anybody else has ideas, throw them in the chat. When you go over your calorie count from indulgences, you just take the loss, I think you're seeing the loss or you adjust down the next day or two. Okay, it's an interesting one. If you're in a gaining phase and you go over calories, just start the next day it's fine. Like you'll just get a little bump that day, if you're in a fat loss phase. Okay, whatever phase you're in, I don't like making up if that's the principle, I don't like making up the calories. So I would just look at what I did. Readjust the next day come up with a better meal plan and learn from these minor mistakes so that you continue having a flexible approach going forward. But don't ever make make up for it. dates, dried fruit. Yeah, great dates, dyed fruit, dried fruit, raisins, yeah, great options, and then supplements. Creatine. I mentioned creatine here just because I think everyone would benefit 20% of people are non responders. The tiniest tiniest piece of fraction of people are allergic. It's very rare thing I like to mention it. So if you have a weird reaction, that's why but most people are responsive. And it's good. It's supposed to be good for brain health as well. They're finding the evidence. Okay. So training, alright, I'm not going to spend a lot of time on training today, because it's more about nutrition. I do have a lot of podcasts I've done specifically about training. But here are my principles. Okay, spend enough time building muscles. So you actually get the benefit. That's the first big one. A lot of people, they do all the training things, right. But then they only spend two months and then they stop. So six months, I like six months, some coaches say four or five, I like six because it's that stretch goal. And lets you think of your schedule ahead of time, and plan it out with the seasons. So for me, I like to like right now I'm in a fat loss phase, ironically, as I give this muscle building talk, but it's going to be done going into spring. And then I'm gonna just bulk all the way till February. So for me, it's like nine months, I love it. And now you're going through the fall of the party season, the fall, you're going through holidays, all of that. So spend at least six months building and plan out your week gain accordingly. Workout 3d five days a week. So if you if you're gonna build muscle, you can't be a one or two day mean, unless you're an advocate of low volume training and have a really good program for that like as a powerlifter something, most people are going to benefit from three to five days a week, or six. But I mean, three to five is usually optimal. As far as what what the program should look like, oh, there's, there's a million, there's a million out there. I mean, you could buy ones from like mine pump from Andy Baker, there's stuff on TrainerRoad, there's a million programs that are work. Principle wise, I like anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour and a half, where you're doing about four to six movements, you're doing about three to five sets, and they're in the four to 15 rep range. And I realized that's like a wide range. Because all of it can be effective. We're trying to build muscle, we're not going for maximal strength. But a strength based program can still build muscle. That makes sense. So I like a little both, which were the which I call power building where I'm doing like a compound lift, then I'm doing a compound lift accessory. So I might do a deadlift that I might do like an RDL. And then I might do two or three more isolation movements. You can do body part splits, bro splits, you can do push pull legs, you can do upper lower can do conjugate, the list goes on and on. You can do Texas method, high medium, you know, heavy light medium, the sky's the limit. Okay? Don't use that as an excuse to prevent you from making progress. Christo says working on maps powerlift right now, and I'm super impressed with the results. Beautiful. It's a great one, my clients, I can give them access to all the mind pump programs I own. They're a big fan of coaches just kind of giving away their stuff. So if you work with me, we'll give you those train zero to two reps from failure. Proximity to failure is one of the most important principles. Because if you're going into the gym, you're banging out 10 reps and you've got five reps in the tank, you are just not giving your muscles the stimulus they need to grow. So 02 reps from failure. Usually that means two reps or so on a big lift closer to zero reps on isolation work, use long enough rest periods. Okay, this is another one. If you're going to the gym and constantly doing the intensity stuff like 30 seconds rest, you may not be getting the most benefit from some of the bigger movements, where if you took the three minutes or even four minutes to rest, now you could hit all the sets and get all the effective reps. Now conversely, intensity techniques rely on the opposite approach, deliberately sorting the rest period, so that you're closer to the effective reps on the next set right away. So I just want to make sure that people are using long enough rest periods when they need them. And and I wanted to mention that, okay, adding weight and reps every session, this is the gold here progressive overload, right, something has to go up something, either you bang out an extra rep, or you increase the weight, or both, or you even at a set, whatever the programming calls for, you can't be static, if you're gaining weight in your body and you're not going up in weight in the gym. Not only does that demonstrate you're not building muscle, it demonstrates you're getting weaker, because your heavier body should be able to push more weight. So it has to go up it just has to and if it's not, something needs to be addressed. Okay. And that's, that's a good opportunity to kind of dive in. Last but not least pick a program you can stick with that you enjoy. That's it, like pick something you love. If you tell me I hate going to the gym. Well, maybe that's not the right program for you. Or you're just not, you know, using one of these principles. Okay, I'm wired up today. I don't know this stuff excites me. You guys like this stuff? Okay. See nutrition wise, what do you think about the approach of three to four weeks on a surplus fall by one week on a deficit and repeating the cycle for the purpose of minimizing fat gain. I don't like it Christos. I don't. If you're in fat loss, and you took a diet break, the only thing that's going to help with is your mental state. We know that there's no physiological benefit. Same thing happens the other way around. If you're gaining muscle, and then you take a break. Yeah, you're not going to gain more fat, you're not going to gain more muscle. Right? It makes sense like you're just slowing it down. I do like the idea that I was going to talk about it later if I get to it, but if not, it's in the guide. I like taking up getting cut in the middle of a long building phase potentially, to lop off some fat and then continue. But you got to be very deliberate about it. I wouldn't do it frequently. loved my energy. Good. Good. Been talking all day. So I'm losing my voice here. All right, your new mantra. All right, I've got a, I've got a quote up on the screen. I'm gonna say it out loud for those listening. And I want you guys to kind of say this to yourself. You're if you're on mute now want to say it out loud with me, please do. I'm excited to gain weight for the first time in my life, because I'm an athlete who wants to be lean and well, muscle, I'm intentionally gaining weight with a plan. And we'll be putting all those calories to good use. I accept the fact that I'll gain some fat. But that's a small short term trade off to gain so much muscle, more than I've ever gained in my life. I will focus on my lifts, how great I feel, and all the other positive things that come with gaining muscle. Okay, I think this is important. I think framing and mental state is important. Because you can't focus on the fact that you're gaining fat. Because you'll get discouraged. You just Well, I did a whole episode called why I'm getting fluffy before I get jacked. And I have those insecurities. And I look in the mirror and I'm like, Yeah, you know, but then I realize that it's, that's nothing for what I'm gaining out of this process. And most people just don't have the mental fortitude to even attempt it. And so you guys are all here, you're ready to go. This is step one. Okay, as far as how do you know you're making progress? You've got to track the things that tell you you're making progress. sounds obvious, but a lot of people will come to me like, I'm stuck. I can't gain weight. Same thing with the opposite. I'm stuck. I can't lose weight. Why are you tracking your food? No. Okay, track your food. Right? Or, I mean, there's a million reasons why but it often comes down to you just don't have data. And if you're gonna tell me that it's too tedious, then I'm going to say okay, then it's not as important to you, as it should be. Like, there's no way around it. You can't intuitively, you can intuitively build muscle if you've never done it before, while also optimizing the process. So you can gain muscle, but you might gain a lot of fat. Or you might have a bunch of plateaus on the way if you try to do it intuitively, versus just getting the result you want as quick as possible. So things that you can track, you can track your scale weight, of course, to know that you're gaining, you track your Trend weight, which macro factor does for you. That's a three week moving average. you track your body measurements, not to focus on your waist, because that's going to go up. But your biceps, your thighs, your chest, your neck, those should go up and indicate fat or muscle gain. You can measure your body fat using the Navy formula, if you want, you definitely need to log your your lifts and know that you're progressing. You can log your biofeedback I find it less important during gaining and losing, because all biofeedback tends to be positive. But if you track your biofeedback, and you're like in a hard gaming plateau, you might notice that, hey, I'm hungry. Well, that's a good indication you're not eating enough. And then bloodwork is always nice to have just as a before and after. So you can track other things beyond that. If you have like an aura ring, and Apple Watch all this. It's fun, cardio, health, all that. But these are the main things. If I had to pick two or three, what would they be? Well, I didn't even have food on this list, right? Because we talked about that separately. So it would be food. But then I would track your average weight. And I would track while I let it. I don't like these questions, but you have to only pick a few right?

Philip Pape 33:24

I shouldn't have taken the bait. So I would track weight, and I would track do you have to track your training? Gosh, I feel like you have to. Yeah, wait and training. That's it. Everything else you can kind of tell by how your pants feel how you look. Right? Your weight tells you you're you're putting in the calories in your training log tells you you're getting stronger, good body measurements, I like them weekly, just for to make it a habit I do on Sunday mornings and then put them in a spreadsheet. And by the way, I'm gonna I have a tracker for that it's going to be part of part of something that's coming up that I'm gonna mention in my bonus surprise at the end. So I'm not gonna, like I say now, Okay, keep going. So don't be done. What holds people back? Okay. Not tracking stuff. Like all the stuff we just talked about. Going too quickly or going too slowly, of course, because if you go too slowly, you're just going to stall out. And if you go too quickly, you're going to get too much fat. Not doing it for long enough like we talked about not training hard, not recovering hard gaining and staying there meaning you know, your heart gaining and then you just don't do anything about it. Fear of getting fat we talked about and then letting life deter you like making an excuse. All this happened, oh, I got injured. Oh, I look, I had surgery. I didn't let it deter me. I know people all the time get injured, and they work around it. I know people that they have to go on a three week vacation. They make it work. Like you can make it work that that is life. Like that's the norm the norm is life. So unless you know there's like three months where you're going to be in a cave without access to a gym, and even then you could like rig up some rocks. Well, you need food too. But anyway, don't let life deter you. Okay, So, we're already we only have 20 minutes left, see this, I knew what would happen. The rest of this presentation is a walkthrough of my real life muscle building phase, proceed with caution only if you truly want to unlock the most muscle gains possible and save time and hassle. Should you continue in the same morning as in the guide. So here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna fly through this because I want to leave like 10 minutes at least to answer questions, and then everyone here is going to get the slides. And they're going to get the blueprint itself, that's going to explain everything, when you can always reach out to me if something doesn't make sense. Okay, so my plan was, I wanted to get jacked, I want to go after as much muscle as I can. I barely I just started training hard, like four years ago. And I know a lot about this stuff, but I don't have the results I want yet out of it, I have great results, but I want to keep going. So I'm gonna gain at four I did this is over, I gained at point 3% body weight a week. I did it for I aimed for six to nine months, it ended up being 10 months, including a month of layoff in between because of life. I had surgery and I had a rapid fat loss phase that I did. And my target weight was 185. It started at 165. I later adjusted it to 190 and never lock yourself in to an exact number be adaptable. Was I successful? This information will all be in the the blueprint and even way more detailed than this where I explain everything. What was I successful? Well, I gained 11.3 pounds of lean mass, and I gained 12.9 pounds of fat. If you assume there's like a pound or two of fluid in the lean mass, then the ratio is maybe slightly worse. But it's still almost 5050 I'm happy with that, like for a guy who has been training, you know, for years. So I consider myself intermediate 5050 is great. For a beginner, I would say a little more lean mass than that. And then for an advanced athlete a little bit less. So my effective rate of gain was point four, eight, which was almost exactly what I was going for. And all my all my circumference measurements went up. So my waist went up three inches, you know, chest, an inch, bicep inch and a half thigh, 1.7 neck half inch. And I'm very happy with that. And so body fat wise, it went up about 5% what I know from my own personal experiences, I feel leaner than I ever have at 190. I mean, now I'm like 183 because I am in a fat loss phase and going back the other direction. But you will find that every time you gain every time you cut fat, you're able to go higher and higher and higher weight but still feel leaner, it's a great thing. Okay, my metabolism was all over the place. This is why you should use macro factor to be honest, because there's no other way to do this easily. My metabolism, if you look where it started, when I started gaining, it actually went down, then it kind of stayed around. Then I had rotator cuff surgery. And then it shot way up. As my shoulder healed itself. It shot up by 200 to 300 calories. I couldn't train as you know, I couldn't train at all after the surgery. And then I had to slowly get back into it. I didn't let life deterred me, I kept working on it. I went to maintenance that I went back into again. And my metabolism actually kept dropping this whole time. Not sure why like my activity was fine. But I think it was just because I wasn't training hard during this period. And then we had our shred Tober rapid fat loss phase. For 14 days, my expenditure dropped even more than I started building again. And ever since then climb, climb, climb, climb back to a reasonable level. Now, in previous building phases, I've been up to like 3400 calories. So I ended this one around 3100. And this just tells you that our bodies can, you know, be unpredictable, is split says. But it does give us good information of like what happens in different phases. And when somebody asked me, should I stop tracking because I'm sick? Or because I'm this or that? Assuming the tracking itself isn't a stress a stressor or problem? I say yeah, keep tracking because it gives you information on what your body does during these anomalies. Okay, so that's my metabolism, my trendweight went up from one, about 168 to 190. And you can see that it was pretty smooth, even though the scale weight goes up and down constantly. But the trendweight kept going. And I had surgery, I lost weight, a little bit of weight because my metabolism shot up as you saw on the last slide. So I went into what amounted to a hard gainer phase, unintentionally, I actually ate more and more and more, but I couldn't keep up. And then finally it turned around. And I started to gain again. Then I had the rapid fat loss phase where I lost about four pounds of body fat, which was cool. And that's an example where he like to crystallize his question, you could use a mini cut or micro cut in the middle of a phase to help you extend it. And then I continued from there and it was smooth sailing pretty much for the rest of the build. If you look at my nutrition, I'm pretty consistent. I'm pretty boring. People who are boring tend tend to be successful with this stuff. Because they just eat the same things and are just dialed in. Not everybody's like that and you can still get great success even if you're If you have more variance, you have to be consistent, but you can have more variability. So if you look at my graph here, my protein carbs, or protein, fats, carbs pretty much stayed where they needed to be the whole time. And you can see the nutrition trended with my expenditure. So it went up and down, you know, every week, depending on what I needed to keep the surplus the same. And then all the spikes are just like parties or nights out or I was like GABA, just wanna eat what I want today, which you have a lot more flexibility to do that in a building phase. The blue that doesn't have a color is probably alcohol. So occasionally I drink. I rarely drink these days, maybe once every few weeks, but that's what those are. Okay, measurements, I already mentioned that they went up, I'm not going to dwell on this, this is all my, you know, my waist went up as a gain fat, and then my chest, biceps and thighs all went up as I gain muscle. So I was happy with that. And you should be too if you see things go into that direction. My body fat went up as expected by about four or 5%. This is based on the Navy formula, which uses my neck and waist. So it's a simple ratio. Little bit complicated formula, you can put it in a spreadsheet, or you can Google it, and you can track the trend. I don't care about the number. I care about the trend now am I leanness when I started at Wayne 168 I was about 15 16% body fat, which you might say well that's not even that lean. And I agree and so my fat loss phase now my intent is to get closer to 10% which I've just never been there my entire life. I've always been a bit fluffy or overweight and that's why I love shaving my body this way. Okay, any other questions? Cool. Well thanks everybody for coming again. I will send out everything by email. If you don't get that you can always reach out to me Philip with one L at Wits & Weights comm or Instagram at Wits & Weights, or our Facebook group or everywhere else. So pixel for coming. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights. Please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong

Philip Pape 3/1/24 Philip Pape 3/1/24

Ep 151: The Surprising Link Between Gut Health, Fat Loss, and Body Composition with Josh Dech

How do gut bacteria affect your metabolism, hormonal balance, inflammation, and overall physical performance? What foods and nutrients can nurture a healthy gut microbiome to enhance fat loss and improve body composition?

In this episode, Philip (@witsandweights) speaks with Josh Dech, an ex-paramedic and Holistic Nutritionist specializing in gut health. They explore the complex, often misunderstood link between gut health, fat loss, and body composition. They bust some common myths and highlight strategies for maintaining gut health and giving it the attention it deserves.

Josh, also the host of ReversABLE: The Ultimate Gut Health Podcast, knows all about the connections between your gut and the rest of your health, body, and mind. And it was the successes his clients have had with complex digestive diseases, previously thought to be impossible, that got him connected to some of the world’s most renowned doctors. Josh has been recruited to the Priority Health Academy as a medical lecturer, helping educate doctors on a holistic approach to gut health.

Get an EXCLUSIVE bonus interview with Josh on home gut health tests, pre/probiotics, the connection between gut health and urinary tract infections in women, and more. Click here: https://witsandweights.com/bonus

Today, you’ll learn all about:

2:15 Personal connection to gut health
4:41 Gut bacteria and its impact on hormones
7:19 The role of gut bacteria in weight loss
12:06 Gut microbiota imbalances and hormonal disruptions
13:57 Factors altering gut bacteria and strategies for a healthy gut
16:09 Gut health, imbalances, and inflammation
21:36 Strategies for a healthy gut bacteria
25:29 Nutritional principles and gut repair
27:08 Food choices and nature's influence
31:52 The role of fiber, pre/post/probiotics
38:20 Intuitive eating
41:54 Effects of exercise on gut bacteria
43:24 The question Josh wished Philip had asked
45:29 Where to learn more about Josh
46:18 Outro

Episode resources:

ReversABLE: The Ultimate Gut Health Podcast - reversablepod.com
Website: The Gut Health Solution – gutsolution.ca
Facebook: @joshdech.health
IG: @joshdech.health

Episode summary:

As the wellness industry continues to expand, new revelations about the human body emerge, shifting paradigms and challenging long-held beliefs. Among these, the role of the gut microbiome in health has sparked a revolution, attracting the attention of holistic nutritionists like Josh Dech. In a recent podcast episode, Josh explores the intricate relationship between the gut microbiome, weight management, and cognitive function, providing a new perspective on well-being.

Our gut microbiome is an invisible universe teeming with life. Comprising trillions of bacteria, this complex ecosystem is integral to our metabolism, immune system, and even our moods. Dech highlights the importance of nurturing this delicate balance through dietary choices and lifestyle habits. But it's not just about what we consume; it's understanding how each individual's unique bacterial blueprint can influence their overall health.

The discussion extends to how imbalances in the gut microbiome can lead to inflammation and a cascade of health issues. Josh sheds light on the 'silent saboteurs' within our gut that may manifest as skin conditions, autoimmune diseases, and mental health challenges. These revelations underscore the potential for a more personalized healthcare approach, one that caters to the individual complexities of the microbiome.

In the realm of weight loss, Josh debunks the calorie deficit myth by examining an experiment with mice that suggests our gut bacteria could significantly impact our ability to shed pounds. He posits that perhaps it's not just about the calories in versus calories out but also about the state of our gut health. This groundbreaking insight could transform the way we approach fat loss and metabolism.

Furthermore, Josh discusses the significance of early life factors, such as childbirth method and breastfeeding, in establishing a robust gut microbiome. These early interactions with bacteria lay the groundwork for future health, influencing our susceptibility to diseases and our ability to maintain a healthy weight.

Building a strong immune system, Josh explains, involves not only nurturing the gut but also avoiding substances that harm it, such as alcohol and environmental toxins. He emphasizes that prevention is key and that by making healthier choices, we can strengthen our body's natural defenses.

The conversation doesn't stop there. Josh delves into the role of prebiotics, probiotics, and postbiotics in digestive health, using analogies to simplify these complex concepts. He stresses that not everyone needs prebiotics and that certain probiotic strains can be strategically employed to address specific health concerns.

Physical activity is another piece of the puzzle, with Josh explaining the bidirectional relationship between exercise and gut health. Physical activity promotes the growth of beneficial bacteria, enhancing immune function and potentially leading to a more favorable body composition.

As the episode concludes, listeners are left with a wealth of knowledge on how to achieve optimal health through understanding and supporting their gut microbiome. Josh’s insights from his podcast 'Reversible' serve as a testament to the power of the gut in shaping our fitness and cognitive clarity.

The conversation with Josh Dech is more than just a discussion; it's a transformative lesson in health and well-being. The gut microbiome's role in our lives is profound, and by embracing these insights, we can embark on a journey to not only better physical health but also mental and emotional well-being.

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Transcript

Josh Dech 00:00

Many of us are overfed but undernourished. And so we're seeing a lot of these things coming through. So you just have to give your body the tools, remove the things causing the problem, and it has the ability to heal itself. Right? Headaches are not a byproduct of aspirin deficiency. Pray there's something else going on. And that's what we have to look at. Here it is, where's your body? What's blocking it from doing this job?

Philip Pape 00:23

Josh Dech 02:12

a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.

Philip Pape 02:14

As we talked about before we started recording, this is the first deep dive we'll be doing into gut health. So I know the listeners are excited for all about it. And just so that they understand your expertise in this area, just tell us why gut health in particular appealed to you in the context of holistic health.

Josh Dech 02:30

It truly wasn't it's one of those things that was actually love at first sight. You know, I used to be a paramedic and I was in the reactive health care space, I want to do more proactive and really help people change the lives where I do now. And so it was just very, very different. When, in long and short after chain of events was at a trade show, I heard somebody speaking from a holistic nutrition school about the gut and gut biome. And I heard that I said, that isn't I'm going to do for the rest of my life. So I started saving up and I went back to school, and I've been hooked ever since. We talked about the importance. And I'll tell you as kind of a quick overview, we can dive into this one, Phillip more if you'd like. But our guts, I argue our gut and our gut microbiome is it's a bacteria community living inside of our gut, I argue they're more important than our DNA, at the very least as important. Because if you think about it, we have 23,000 genes in the human genome, right? That make up a human being, we have over 3 million genes inside your gut bacteria. So they are vast in number they outnumber your own body cells 10 to one, they do everything for you from detoxification, to hormone balancing to producing vitamins in cellular health and immune response. And they determine how socially we feel like being and what diseases you will not get. They are everything. And it's one of the most fascinating emerging sciences that I've ever seen.

Philip Pape 03:49

Yeah, I was gonna say when he first started saying you fell in love with it, it was like, people don't see it as a sexy topic, so to speak. Right. But when you really get into it, I mean, you're speaking to me from what the science and kind of engineering background of and I've talked to my girls about this before, we have more bacteria in our body like, well, more bacteria than our body than anything else. Just effectively walking. Hosts, right.

Josh Dech 04:12

Yeah, I mean, the question is, are you you? Are you more microbes? Right? You probably were like Pigpen you know, from Charlie Brown, this dust cloud of microbes pulling around us and following us everywhere. It's it's really wild. Yeah,

Philip Pape 04:24

and especially that it affects so many different things. One of the parallels is we talk a lot on this show about building muscle and I've come more and more to believe that muscle is the center of of so many metabolic diseases and health issues we have even more than than weight management right and so I kind of hammer home that message. I like your message here that maybe gut health itself can have a profound you know, cascading effect on everything else. I want to get into that and the audience here listens to the show specifically cares a lot about body composition and fat loss and building muscle and that kind of thing. So we don't necessary have to get into every single facet of of health. But how does it directly impact those things, you know, body composition hormones, maybe, maybe appetite satiety, those kinds of things?

Josh Dech 05:09

Well, probiotics, right be a bacterium living inside of your gut or oral probiotic supplements you take, they work as signaling messengers. So they have all kinds of stuff we're still truly learning about, there are trillions, but 100 trillion bacteria inside of your gut. And we're still just learning about most of them, we really have really firm studies on about 100. These are the ones we can really see inside GI maps, we're exploring different things with different genus and species. But it's all very rudimentary stuff in the grand scheme of it, we're talking as rudimentary as you know, bacteria knowledge really, in contrast would have been in the 1800s, when we just discovered that they exist, right? We haven't even discovered really, the use of the biome started becoming a thing back in the late 80s, early 90s. And understanding the gut and gut bacteria. So it's really quite complex. And unfortunately, the truth is Philip, we don't fully understand how the gut bacteria relates to weight loss, but we do know some. So there are certain strains, for example, that influence inflammation, hormonal balancing, insulin and carbohydrate metabolism. A really big one popular in media right now is akkermansia. And that's when we do see quite a lot in that, again, helps dozens and dozens of benefits for that one specific strain. But I'll give you an interesting anecdote. And effectively, the study concluded that it helps but we don't know why. So researchers actually gave mice a heavy dose of antibiotics to wipe out the gut bacteria, right, they wanted to test the effects of calorie deficits or calorie restricted diets to see what they lose weight. So in the control mice, right, that was a healthy, untouched gut bacteria. They found calorie restriction, of course, like anybody else, reduced body weight, and it had tons of benefits to their gut and gut biomes that increase their growth of beneficial bacteria, of course, growth hormone and muscle retention, all the things you typically see from having a caloric deficit or from fasting. But in the mice who are given antibiotics, they flushed out as much bacteria as they could from their gut, they didn't get the same benefits from calorie restriction, weight loss was either fully restricted or limited. And so they really effectively lead to the conclusion that our gut bacteria have a direct role in weight loss, right? So it begs the question, like if your bacteria is damaged, can you still lose weight? And so to reference another study, they fed obese mice Because mice eat poop, right? That's just the facts. I'm talking about eating feces, I'm not saying you guys should eat most poop. What they did is they gave these mice, they fed the obese mice, diets that were mixed with feces from lean healthy mice, and the obese mice were able to lose weight effectively. And on the flip side, right? lean mice are given bacteria from obese mice, and they are more prone to weight gain. And so it just goes to really show our gut bacteria have a major role in weight loss. And so they don't really understand fully how it works. But we know that it does work. That's something we're still exploring. But the studies really indicate like it has a role in the food reward system and all kinds of stuff for compulsive eating, and no dietary driven behavior. So there's lots of really amazing connections there.

Philip Pape 08:07

So I want to explore that, right? Because I I fully subscribe to the idea that we don't have to know why things work always to understand that they work, especially when they're very complex. Like even when it comes to why how muscles respond to a stimulus and grow it. We're still trying to figure that out. So when you talk about the the mice experiment, is this an isocaloric? Experiment, like both are fed the same calories, there's ad libitum, like they get to eat whatever they want to be referred the

Josh Dech 08:35

same. So they're identical diets. It's okay idea is if we want to compare, of course, right, any comparative analysis has to be as identical as possible on both sides to produce as many complicating factors or restrictions as possible. And so that's what they done, they gave them the same diets the same calorie deficit the same everything and found that the disruptive bacterium did not lose weight, which, besides the obvious, right food and insulin and 60% of you know, America being considered type two diabetes, or prediabetes. We can actively see all the food and all the things that 17,000 plus pesticides how they actually disrupt our gut microbiomes and lead to disease processes. In that way alone, I believe that's a large contributor to the obesity crisis.

Philip Pape 09:16

That makes a lot of sense. And I want to poke at that one more, one more level, because when I hear that the deficit was the same, I would challenge that in the wording because I imagine that there was the reason they didn't lose weight was because they couldn't maintain the same deficit in those mice. Because the other side of the equation probably probably decreased right them a tablet, I gotta, I gotta imagine their their expenditure came down. And that was why they couldn't lose weight, right? Because we know energy balance is what it is.

Josh Dech 09:41

Well, you're right. So there would be some complications there. Right? For example, if the mice were bloated, having pain they might lay around more, they might not be as active or as energetic. So definitely, that's a factor that it comes part and parcel with altering any microbiota, right? I specialize in Crohn's and Colitis, and those people are some of the most fatigued, drained exhausted people. You In medicine next to cancer patients actively going through chemo. So those are the factors we can't control. But if we even look at just testing, you know, a BMR, or an RMR, we can see a lot of congruence in there as well. So you're very, very right to state that Phillip because is it the only factor? No. Is it a major playing factor in the overall outcomes at the end? Regardless of its mechanism and pathology? Yes,

Philip Pape 10:21

yeah, it's important for people to know because then then they understand what the MEK it's kind of like sleep right? When you look at sleep deprivation studies. And we know that it increases hunger, and can lead to more consumption. But in studies where they've controlled the calories, it also leads to differences in weight loss, but that's because the expenditure has changed for the sleep deprived group, right, they're there, their body compensates. So I was just curious about that. So you're saying we don't really know the mechanisms per se. And part of that is because there's a lot to work, a lot of work to be done. And you said, we only understand 100 species out of 100 out of a trillion or 100 trillion. What was that? So

Josh Dech 10:55

we have roughly estimate, say, between one and 2000 different species, seven to 9000 strains, some estimates are now saying two to 4000 species it's ever evolving at this stage, we've really scratched the surface. But even if we take the one or 2000, with seven to 9000 strains, we can multiply it out to say there's 18 million different bacterium multiplied out into about 100 trillion different individual bacteria within the gut. And so we look at that that's sort of when we say we only know 100. I say that because it's what we test for. So we use gi mapping, which is a stool sample, which I'm sure you're familiar with, and maybe many of your listeners are, it's a GI sample or stool sample, we sent to a lab for analysis with a give us a cultural count of all the bacteria individually, either their species, umbrellas, like all lactobacillus or Bifidobacterium. Or there are some other tests that can really break them down by individual genus, so you can see the strains of each individual and what's lacking. And so with those, again, we maybe see upwards of 100 different genus of bacteria on these tests. And that's it, we can actively test or have some sort of ability to intervene on via supplementation, probiotics, or probiotics, those types of things. Okay, so

Philip Pape 12:06

then, is there a set of profiles or an ideal profile? Where we maybe a balance of the certain species that we're going for in most humans? Or is it highly individual? And then how does that balance affect some of this, for example, hormonal disruptions? You know, what I'm asking? Yeah.

Josh Dech 12:23

So we look at reference ranges, the thing is about lab testing is pretty arbitrary, for the most part, right? We know this, because look, for example, at blood labs, right, I'm sure you've seen your fair share of blood labs or steady blood work over time. And those reference ranges are based on a population where 90 plus percent of people are not metabolically healthy, they're actually very sick. And so what we're considering normal is far from optimal. And the challenge further with these lab tests, this is just the truth of them. They're useful tools, but often nondiagnostic is that you only need for adults 120 different reference points to create lab reference ranges for this test, we can say 120 people, maybe they have sick bacteria, maybe they don't. And so you and I fill up as total strangers share approximately 99 to 99.9% of our DNA, right? Never met total strangers, we share only 20 to 30% of the DNA of our microbiome. And so we look at these reference ranges for me, I'm not looking to get people ideally at back in the green if you're on the red, you're not detectable, that's a problem. But you know, dealing gut and gut health and gut disease, I look at these reference ranges is exactly that the references, but oftentimes we use them to try to clinically diagnose right now if you detect pathogens, salmonella, you know, type of pathogenic strains of E. coli, Clostridium difficile, we can see those go okay, yeah, this person is very ill they have an infection of those parasites. But what reference ranges are ideal for that person's physiology? I'd say still, to this point, looking at probably, you know, two dozen GI maps a month. I think it's a crapshoot, no pun intended.

Philip Pape 13:56

So is there a baseline you can establish for an individual then when they're young that would that would tell you that are like right out of the womb, you already have this big divergence?

Josh Dech 14:03

Yeah, so I'm not going to give your listeners anything useful here. So unfortunately, it's really building an awareness around what it means. But here's the deal. When we're born again, we have such a variety of different species and strains. And that depends largely on what's consumed, how active we are your bacteria, right? If you're vaginally born versus C section, dramatically different because you're actually inoculated covered head to toe. Even orally, you'll get some of that in you. If you look at bottle fed versus breastfed, we know the incidence rates for SIDS or sudden infant death syndrome is twice as high from a meta analysis of 19 or 20 Different studies, it's twice as high for babies who are bottle fed than those who are strictly breastfed. And so we know these microbes have a role to play the nutrients that come from it. If you look at, for example, people who grew up on farms versus those who live in apartments in New York City, very different microbes and microbial diversity or variety of bacteria that live inside the gut. So it's all about exposure, getting outside playing with animals, letting them lick your face playing in the dirt touching, you know, grass and food and natural things. And that's how we develop variety. The challenge is, again, the baseline we might get from a baby to answer the original question, can you get a baseline when you're born? Well, that thumbprint so to speak, that blueprint of mycobacteria, that microbiome DNA actually sets in differently for each person, but it really establishes around four years old plus or minus a year. And so we could take it from there. But then the question is bottle fed, breastfed hold, raise playing outside helicopter parents? What kind of food? What kind of diversity is a child picky? All those things matter? And so it's such a, unfortunately, well, I'll say fortunately, unfortunately, fortunately, we know enough about it, we can take action on a lot of these things. And I use gi mapping and almost every Crohn's Colitis patient that I see, the unfortunate part is that it's such a wide array of variables for missteps, or, you know, Miss judgment or misdiagnosis, it really is impossible to say here is our answer. Here's the definitive line, because there's way too much variety, and we're dealing with trillions, we probably won't know for another 100 years.

Philip Pape 16:09

Okay, good. So we've established that. So now we can maybe take the bigger picture approach of, first of all, I do understand the link with some things that you mentioned, like inflammation, and others that might be associated with obesity and peoples who struggle with weight management, because we often attack it from the behavior and choice and lifestyle perspective, which I think is good for everybody to do. But some people don't respond as well. And I want to understand that link, and what what is destroying our gut bacteria or altering it as we live our life? And then of course, we'll get into how do we develop healthy gut bacteria? So I just threw like three different questions that you, but I think, I think you got it all.

Josh Dech 16:51

making notes. So let's deal with inflammation first. So inflammation coming from the gut comes from a lot of places, primarily, we're gonna see it from bacteria. Now, every bacteria lives in the gut, right? Well, not every bacteria lives in the gut, the ones that live in your gut are responsible for your gut, we do have microbiomes all over the body, right? Oral nasal, on your scalp, your hair, skin, eyebrows, groin, right, rectal, vaginal, oral, these are all different microbiomes. And everybody has a unique one. And so inflammation comes when there's disharmony or imbalance. And so the acronym I typically use or the analogy, rather, is that, you know, everything in this world has a role to play in the economy, or in the general ecosystem of a city, a town or neighborhood. And whether we agree with it or not, even the crack dealer at the gas station has a role to play in the local economy, right, or the local judicial system that's got a role somewhere. And so they have a role to play. So even the bad bacteria, the Candida, the Clostridium, those ones still have a role to play when they are in regular normal levels. But if every gas station, every grocery store, every coffee shop, sold nothing but crack. Now we've got a problem, right? Things just fall apart. So in the same way, where you have an overrun of these bad what we call opportunistic or pathogen, bacteria, the dangerous ones, then we have imbalances. Just the same if you have too much good imagine too much gentrification. It's all you know, 25 year old white girls moving into a neighborhood now you have 15, Starbucks and no groceries. So it's another

Philip Pape 18:23

trigger a bunch of people on this this episode represents.

Josh Dech 18:28

So we look at this, we have to understand the imbalances that are the problem. Everything lives. It's not about competition. It's about harmony inside the gut. And so when people are triggered, high cortisol, high stress, high inflammation, creates disharmony. And so when we look at these and say, Okay, there's imbalance in the gut bacteria, these do three main things that we'll start to see. Number one, we can see actual toxins being produced, right, like we go into the term of LPs, it's labeled polysaccharide. Or another word is endo toxins, right. And they'll just meaning within the toxins created by these bacteria. Now they get out, they create inflammation, they lead to more imbalance. Inflammation also creates imbalance because healthy, happy bacteria can't live inside of a house is on fire. But the bad guys love that. They want to move into inflammation, they want to create inflammation, they want sugar, alcohol, breads, those types of things. And so that's one way imbalance creates actual inflammatory markers or byproducts from the bacteria. The second thing we see from the inflammation is leaky gut. Now there are some people who still say I leaky gut BS, but there are some really great informations out there about leaky gut, we know it exists. We know the role of Zonulin, for example, that actually creates further leaks. But when you have inflammation, the cells in your intestines spread apart further than normal. Now, typically, they're held together by something called gap junctions. It's a little binder that holds them together, and healthy things by nutrients pass through that wall, the small intestine. It's only one cell thick before it enters your blood you can get to lymphatic system They're all kinds. But that's micro molecules to at an appropriate size to transfer through the tissue to get into your blood and circulate as they should. But if you're inflamed, and you have large leaks and large gaps, now macro molecules, these endotoxins, these things can pass through getting around the superhighway of your body, which is your blood, your lymphatic can get to your brain, your joints, your skin, and when it gets there, it disrupts those microbiome. So we see acne, psoriasis, arthritis, hair loss, all kinds of other things, anxiety, depression, and things get into the brain. Because these leaks go beyond they create leaky lung. So I've seen asthma from a gut inflammation, we see leaky brain anxiety, depression, schizophrenia, other mental health conditions can all be connected back to the gut, and immune conditions. One of the primary legs, actually autoimmune conditions is leaky gut. So lupus and MS, all that stuff goes back to the gut. So that's our main two ways. endotoxins, leaky gut, the third way that we can see would be actual immunological issues, because you know, 70 to 90% of your immune system is within your gut, right? The actual B cells and T cells, these immune cells are grown and matured in the gut. Or we see an imbalance in things like neurotransmitters, which have a feedback loop to creating stress to creating inflammation, gi changes, which again, further disrupt things. So those are kind of your main umbrellas in which we see inflammation coming from the gut. Okay,

Philip Pape 21:21

yeah, no. So assuming there are too many crack dealers, or rich white girls, you're going to have you're going to have the toxins create inflammatory markers, the the leakage for the macromolecules that can then spread throughout the body and immune issues, immunological issues. So yeah, that's good. So then how do we how do we reverse that? How do we either develop healthy gut bacteria in the first place? If someone is listening to it, and maybe he's younger? I assume there's a time factor to this, but maybe I'm wrong. of age and lifestyle? How do we how do we develop the healthy bacteria?

Josh Dech 21:50

Great question. So we can go all the way back to birth? Right. I mean, we know like we talked about we mentioned being born vaginal and breastfed changes, everything in breastfeeding actually changes the structure, the bone structure, the nose, the mouth and the skull. You'll notice people who knows breathe when who are breastfed tend to have a wider John more square shape and wider, broader cheekbones, and those who are maybe bottle fed and mouth breathe, right, they can actually see that shrinking. And so there's physiological changes there which translate to the rest of your health. But of course, the immediate inoculation of bacterium from breast milk, right? And then, of course, that inoculation from being vaginally born through the birth canal. Those are our top two ways from birth. Now, nobody listening to this podcast is a baby. So I'll just skip ahead to the next bit. It's growing up, right? If you have kids, and they're outside playing, let them get their hands dirty, let them touch stuff, right, let them go and pick their nose, you're gonna introduce bacteria, they're gonna get sick, their immune system is going to build it's going to adapt. That's the adaptive immune system. Again, like we talked about, farmers have the most diverse, robust micro biomes of all that are typically tested or again, like native tribes and native indigenous tribes living in the jungle living off the land, right? They have the most inoculation of bacteria and are the healthiest coincidently don't have a 10th of the health issues we have. And so that's number one is development. It's exposure. It's from birth, it's regulation. Hey,

Philip Pape 23:15

this is Philip. And I hope you're enjoying this guest interview on Wits & Weights. If you're finding it valuable, you can get a bonus conversation we recorded. If you're on our email list, just go to wits & weights.com/bonus, or click the link in the show notes. Insiders on our email list will get a link to the bonus conversation where my guest will give you the exact steps to take related to one of the topics in today's episode. Again, these conversations are only available if you're on our free email list. To get the bonus exclusive content with today's guest. Just go to wits & weights.com/bonus, or click the link in the show notes. Now back to the show.

Josh Dech 23:57

Now, if we talk about the things, how to basically create a better gut, we want to stop talk about prevention. Number one, we want to prevent damage. That's your alcohols, your sugars. I'm a big advocate against gluten for the most part, especially in autoimmune disease. Those are huge, huge components. We have to look at antibiotics, medications, smoking, fried food, packaged foods, high fructose corn syrup, things that damage the liver, because everything's connected, right? Western medicine has this very reductionist view of the human body where it's just your gut, just your thyroid, just your brain, just your skin. We have skin issues with topical ointment, but your skin is a detox organ, largest organ in the body. It's typically a reflection of internal issues coming out externally. And so we have this reductionist view or it's systematic one thing at a time, but your entire body's connected so we have to look at that general health. So if we're doing things to disrupt that high stress, basic principles like not chewing your food, eating garbage, food, those disrupt the gut, or anything that disrupts the biome pesticides, right we dump a billion pounds of pesticides on our food every year. There's about 17,000 different pesticides approved for use in the USA. And there's 50% more highly toxic pesticides used in the USA than say in the UK, for example, of highly dangerous stuff that we know causes genetic damage. DNA damage, destroys gut bacteria glyphosate being one of the worst. One of the worst offenders that we see right now. Oatmeal for those listening. That's, that's Roundup, right? Yes, Roundup. Absolutely. And all your grains, right. They're sprayed and covered in this stuff. And that's the problem is we're being fed, poisoned effectively. We look at things in our water. We know there are forever chemicals, these PF A's, we know that 60 plus percent of all Americans take regular prescription drugs, maybe it's 50%. But 60 70%, over 5060 years old. Take two or more regular drugs. So imagine how many pharmaceuticals birth control all that goes into our water? So drinking filtered water, these are all prevention steps, right? It's like how do I get my house to stop burning down, we'll stop pouring gasoline on it first, number one. Number two, we want to talk repair and rebuild. That's where we won. After we've stopped. We let things cool off. We improve inflammatory responses, we give your body the tools it needs in the form of resources, which is food, nutrients, nutrition. Many of us are overfed but undernourished. And so we're seeing a lot of these things coming through. So you just have to give your body the tools, remove the things causing the problem, and it has the ability to heal itself. Right? Headaches are not a byproduct of aspirin deficiency. Pray there's something else going on. If that's what we have to look at here is where's your body? What's blocking it from doing this job?

Philip Pape 26:36

So I know, I know what people are thinking right now already. They're like, Oh, here we go. Again, that sounds so overwhelming, right? All the snaps that I have made. And, you know, we talk a lot on this show about flexible dieting and doing what works for you. And not not necessarily changing everything all at once. But taking steps day by day. And I guess I know that I know. That's what the listener is thinking, right? Because you said alcohol, sugar, good medications, birth control, smoking. You know, some things are the big ones like smoking. I mean, I hopefully nobody's doing that. I mean, people are doing that. But hopefully that's like a big one that you would cut out. But you know, when you say sugar, or when you say gluten, right? A lot of people might say, well, you know, I tolerate gluten fine. And I need to eat a lot of carbs because I'm building muscle. And I'm also meant managing my weight. Okay, and I feel okay, where's that line? Where's that balance? Because I know people don't want to just restrict a whole bunch of things. I'm just, I'm just asking what of that were that is for you. Yeah,

Josh Dech 27:27

that's, that's what you're really willing to sacrifice. Like, I am covered in tattoos. I know heavy metals are bad for my body. And I'm probably gonna fight these the rest of my life. And I made a decision. I was like, I want them anyway. So we make bad choices. You know, ultimately, the closer we get to nature, the further we get from disease and wherever that line is, is up to you. For me. I'm a big advocate for animal based diets, but I don't eat carnivore, I eat a lot of meat. I still eat some fruits and make soup for my wife or something, you know, maybe then I'll have I'll have some vegetables. But that for me is where I'm most comfortable. I feel that one's nourished. Some people say, Well, I want to go and drink. Well, the good news is, well, bad news is we know zero milligrams of alcohol are ever good for the human body. But the good news is you have an immense amount of defense mechanisms. In fact, there's something in between in your stomach between the stomach and small intestine called TLR. For its toll like receptor number four, and they stand guard, and they basically say you can come in, you shall not pass by the standard, like Gandalf at the bridge. And so what they want to do is they control and regulate things coming in and out. I'm sure we've all eaten something or those sensitive guts. No, I've eaten I've drank Tim Hortons coffee. I've had something and ran right through the 10 minutes I was on the toilet. That's actually your toll like receptor for opening up deliberately creating leaky gut. Leaky gut is a defense mechanism. It's a good thing. So it opens the floodgates, right? Like putting your thumb over a hose on the driveway to wash things out and push them through so it will not toxify the body. Your body does that with gluten. It recognizes it now. Not everybody has a notable bloated gluten sensitivity. But Dr. Tom O'Brien he says to me says the ones who have gut issues with gluten are the lucky ones because they know pretty quickly it's the gluten but those who have arthritis, skin issues, brain fog, mental clarity issues two, three days later, we're not putting it together. But they say everybody has some kind of issue with gluten, whether or not they tolerate it, whether or not they have celiac, everyone has some kind of issue. And those toll like receptors open that floodgate up in some way. Now, the other hand, those toll like receptors when you drink alcohol, well what are the main uses for alcohol, right? We use them for drinking. So it's either celebration or commiseration. Whatever your preference is. We use it for sanitization. And we sometimes use it as additives or ingredients for tinctures. But that's about it. Otherwise, alcohol has no main purpose really, maybe as a preserve or something else. It didn't but that's it. And so we know more. We know for example, for using a sanitization it destroys bacteria, but most of our backs Serial living our large intestine, the vast majority, like 90 plus percent of our gut bacteria are there, it's three to five pounds of it making up two to 3% of the average human body weight. Now imagine taking alcohol in a colonoscopy and rinsing out the colon one, it would burn like hell, but two, you would destroy everything in there. So these toll like receptors do have a defense mechanism. What they do is they block that alcohol and trickle it through ever so slowly, you can absorb some to the mouth, some through the stomach, which very few things can absorb in the stomach itself. And it trickles it through at a rate that your body can absorb it into the blood to put it through your liver, would rather put it to your liver and your brain that into your gut to destroy gut bacteria. That is how sacred our gut bacteria is to the body. And so there are defense mechanisms, sugar feeds bad bacteria, some people can tolerate it better. If you have Candida, if you have imbalances, those guys love sugar, they will make more toxins. I'm not saying sugar free forever, right? But if you have an infection, maybe look at it for six weeks, eight weeks, 12 weeks as a remedy of sorts, right to get you to healthy where you can tolerate the influx of the sugars. Yeah,

Philip Pape 31:05

so a couple of themes come to mind. One is our body's ability to withstand some level of toxicity, but not very much. And it really depends on the toxin you're putting in. So like you said, there's always a trade off. And I definitely I definitely agree on alcohol, like there's no good that comes from it. And even the rationalizations people use for having it, I think there are substitutions for that. But the the other thing was that I'm also a fan of elimination diets. So like what you're suggesting, even though I don't 100% buy into everything about gluten, and we can agree to disagree, that's fine. We're not gonna solve it here. And that's okay. But on the Elimination Diet piece of and I'm sure you walk clients through some version of that, where you basically, you know, they stop exposing your body to a whole bunch of things, and then maybe reintroduce as needed to see what the offender might be. I do want to ask about related to food, fiber, and prebiotics, people ask about that all the time, like, what is the role of fiber or how much we kind of know the general guidelines, but some people swear by more some people say the tube, there's too much fiber you can have, and what exactly the role is of that. And then also prebiotics, and both foods, probiotic and prebiotic foods and supplements. So I don't know how many, again, big topic, but yeah, I'll grant everybody what everybody wants to know about,

Josh Dech 32:19

I can skim those short. So let's talk about pre post and probiotics. So use the analogy of fish in a fish tank, right? Your probiotics are the living organism inside, that's the bacteria, that's the goldfish in the fishbowl, right? The prebiotics are the food, that's what the bacteria or the fish eat post biotics or the fish poop. That's what they produce. Now that poop can be a very, very good in the ecosystem, there are critters that eat that poop as food, there are critters that utilize it, it can be a good thing. But if we have too much poop in the tank, right, it gets really muddy and the fish die. And that's the same thing with the bacteria. If we have too much byproducts that are not being utilized too much bad bacteria producing excess bacteria poop so to speak, then that becomes problematic. And so prebiotics are the food that we want to know, right? So not everybody needs prebiotics. If you have a really nice healthy balance. prebiotics might be helpful for you. If you have imbalance or like a low floor of good bacteria. prebiotics might be very good to bring them up to par. If you have lots of high bacteria and bad bacteria, they're producing too much fish poop, right? And that becomes problematic. On the other hand, they compete for space, right big fish, eat little fish, some other fish, they compete against each other. And so we introduce certain species of probiotics. I use them strategically in my clients. If someone has an overgrowth, for example of C diff, right a lot of people dealing with gut disease have gone through the wringer been in hospital treated with antibiotics. There are actually certain strains and species of lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium. We can use to inhibit or reduce the risk factor of getting a C Diff infection. Somebody's dealing with Candida right certain overgrowth, we can use like saccharomyces boulardii, for example, to help inhibit candida overgrowth, or SIBO and overgrowth of bacteria, Lactobacillus reuteri might be very good for that. Bacterial vaginosis reuteri and RAM Gnosis are great for that, like women who get UTIs my clients literally give them a coconut oil of Tom take a tampon, put coconut oil on it, and take this is one by metagenics called Ultra floor women's. And it's got Lactobacillus reuteri and Rab Gnosis I'll have empty a capsule on the tampon insert, leave it overnight, and nine out of 10 times it's gone in one day, so far 100% of the time has gone on to it's even been used for yeast infections, but because it's a urinary tract infection, and when veterinary tracking the use of infections, that's right. Okay, because those infections are imbalances of bacteria. That's all it is. And bacteria compete for space. And if you use vaginally native bacteria, right, like rhamnosus and reuteri, they can get in there and do their job and the same happens to the gut. And we can use bacteria strategically competing for space. So that's kind of the overview of prebiotics, probiotics and post biotics Now, let's talk about fiber. I'm in the air on this one. So as it got specialist dealing with, again, Crohn's Colitis being one of the most severe gut diseases next to colon cancer people, these people, they're so inflamed, they can't breathe, they can't do things they can't go out. Sometimes if 3040 50 bowel movements a day with blood and mucus, it's quite debilitating. And so a lot of them can't handle the fiber can't break it down. Right? It's very rough. But even myself, I have a very healthy gut. But I don't eat a lot of fiber and my bowels are great. In fact, I actually I tried on a challenge carnivore for like eight weeks, give or take. And I did my bloodwork and my GI maps a month or two before in several months after I went carnivore and then still animal based to this day, my blood work was improved dramatically, my GI map, my stool was improved dramatically, and I get very little fiber. And so I truly am on the fence fiber can be great. I use it in samples, for example, someone comes back and they have very low diversity, I will give them you know, probiotic based foods, fermented food, probiotic supplements, spore probiotics to get in and grow. And I will nurture those with prebiotics and food. But right now, it's something that I'm very interested in learning as the research is still coming out. The conventional wisdom is your bacteria need fiber, because they take that they ferment it, they turn it into butyrate, and valerate and propriate, these short chain fatty acids and byproducts. But on the other hand, you get people who don't eat a lick of fiber, but have a very healthy body and a very healthy gut. And I think a lot of this data, like we talked about is very, very skewed. Because for example, we get people coming in with such diverse micro biomes. And our samples are from a sick population. And if we were to go over to, you know, the jungle somewhere and take these people living off the land and test their micro biomes, they eat very little fiber, maybe some fruits, but most plants are poisonous, or very few plants are going to be healthy. But most animals, we can eat something like 2% of plants are not poisoned, and 98% of animals are safe to eat. And so they eat primarily carnivore based or animal based diets, and they don't have the diseases we do. And so I'm curious to see as the research that may be coming out soon on the microbiomes and microbial diversity of these indigenous tribes. And that I believe should be our reference ranges for North America, even though we have different land, different culture, different species and strains. It's what is the standard of food and nutrition? Do we really need that much fiber, like the argument of fiber is eat it because you can't break it down. So it scrubs you and it feeds your bacteria. But the argument against me is don't eat it because you can't break it down. So which is right, we can't have it both ways. And so my clients do very, very well on animal based diets, very few do well on plant in my experience.

Philip Pape 37:38

Okay, that's another another area of where we probably have a little disagreement only because which I love. Let's Let's go. Yeah, and but people also know me as a nice guy, I'm not a big I don't I don't have big debate show to be honest. And when it comes to fiber, honestly, there's different reasons people eat it, right. Like, in some cases, it's where satiety, and I've definitely heard of people who become more regular and feel better with more fiber. But I've also seen where I've just got too much fiber, or people with UC and IBS and stuff like that, where it's like, gotta be really careful what kind of fiber you get. Other bodybuilders are like, let's just pack on the insoluble fiber when we're in a diet, you know, because it all goes through, you know, so, again, I'm not I don't think we're going to resolve that here. And there's all different camps, who the next thing I really want to talk about is then physical activity, and gut health, you know, walking and things like that, because I know that walking after a meal seems to help with digestion and blood sugar control with a lot of folks. I'm but I'm looking at bidirectionally. How does, What's the link between physical activity and gut health? You can get specific if you want, what types of activity or just more general?

Josh Dech 38:42

sure if I can back that up. One sec. For you, Philip, I agree with you on the disagreeing, I think it's wise to and I vote for intuitive eating. I still to this day, even though I advocate for animal based do make heavy plant based diets for my clients. Because everyone's different. And that's the interesting thing is we just don't know, there's evidence on both sides. There's things that and this was I want to get this for the listener because I don't want to say, you know, eat meat, nothing but meat. I'm an advocate for animal based. But I've had people like I said, thrive with more plants because they need it. I think it's all individual. Once we develop a level of intuitive eating, there's a difference there between cravings, right? Like why do women crave chocolate when they're on their period? Well, they're looking for iron, magnesium, and carbs or sugars to create progesterone. And so that's a large part of its intuition. But if you drive past the McDonald's thing that smells good, that's not intuitive eating. That's a craving, right? It's genetically modified food to trigger your brain. And so when I look at this, for me, it's what works well for you. And even though I'll recommend diets to my clients, ultimately they are the judge and they know it doesn't doesn't agree with them. And so for the listeners, take what I say with a grain of salt, do your own research test on yourself. Take what Philip says try it take what I say try it and come to your own conclusion. And that's very, very important.

Philip Pape 39:57

Oh that's for sure Ray because I used to say that I won't work with vegetarians or vegans in my program. And I started to open that up when I realized that they can be successful. It just requires a lot more work when you're kind of on the fringes of different diets. And I've seen the same on the other direction with with carnivore. Interestingly, when you're trying to get a lot of protein, if you're omnivorous, it's going to be a lot of animal products anyway. Yes. But then the and then the plants come in there to kind of fill it in with the nutrients and the the data and the fiber and stuff. Agreed. Cool. So yeah, physical activity. I'm

Josh Dech 40:28

curious about because we will activity short. So let's talk physical activity, that bi directional relationship. We know physical activity actually influences the growth of beneficial bacteria influences the immune system promoting detoxification, right sweating major detox pathway, lymphatics, blood, liver, guts, skin, they're all major detox pathways. Even respiration is a detox pathway for certain things. And so they're very, very beneficial all that regard. But it's interesting. So back to these mouse studies, they had actually shown the metabolic benefits to blood sugar and insulin and blood pressure, other vital signs of mice who are given a transplant of fecal bacteria, like oral transplant from fit mice. So lazy, not in I won't say lazy, they're not lazy. They're made to be lazy. But inactive mice who have poor metabolic health, we're getting bacteria from mice with good metabolic health. And the poor health mice became healthier simply by gaining those bacteria. Because again, these bacteria produce all kinds of byproducts, they have all kinds of signaling pathways that go back and forth to every cell in the body. Right? Even probiotics, right? It's very hard to culture them, a lot of them are actually dead in capsule, they're not living organisms anymore. But they even have these positive post biotic they made that coming through the system, even though they don't culture, they go through Cree benefits because those byproducts signal back and forth to cytokines and cells and neurotransmitters and all kinds for production. So it's part of the ecosystem anyways, and exercise benefits all regards. Now. I wouldn't say go and eat a meal than to go for a run, you're gonna vomit. I mean, everybody's gone swimming after a large meal like crab, that's fine. But in general, there is a bi directional relationship of good bacteria to producing healthy metabolic benefits allowing better Hormonal Health, metabolic health. Energy, blood pressure, insulin, right output, strength, neurological health, and vice versa, or exercise directly benefits your bacterial profiles.

Philip Pape 42:25

Yeah, no. Love it. I mean, there's no there's no disadvantage to being active. And it's fascinating that you can transfer the profile, the gut profile of active Meissen to inactive mice, they're going to they're going to be looking for that as another. Give it two years. It'll be right because just like we have the weight loss drugs now. Yeah. Fecal

Josh Dech 42:43

transplants if they're already trying to patent certain strains. And like, I see that 50 years from now, I made a prediction already that the very wealthy will be purchasing fecal transplants to have to exercise less and get the benefits like the doing the surgery and pills today,

Philip Pape 42:57

for sure. Yeah, no, it's insane. And I'm a big fan of lifestyle change. And I know that's, that's what you're an advocate for here. And even if we can't understand the why we can understand the what to do about it to some extent, you know, we could at least compare and try and experiment. We're going to be recording a small, a small mini episode after this to answer a few more questions for listeners who are on my email list. So for folks who want even more from Joshua, we're going to answer some things as well as q&a. But before we leave, is there anything you wish I had asked you, Josh? And what is your answer?

Josh Dech 43:27

Wow, that's a great question. We've covered so much. Here's my thing that I think everybody should know. Maybe it's kind of a last word here. Your gut bacteria really like we talked about? Here it is everything the power of one small thing? Are you familiar Phillip with toxoplasmosis?

Philip Pape 43:44

That sounds familiar. Is that the one you get from cat? Pouches? Yeah,

Josh Dech 43:49

that's the one so anybody who's been pregnant by no other doctor says like, don't change the litter box, because they contain a parasite are prone to containing a parasite called Toxoplasma gondii. Now, these toxoplasma are parasites. Their goal is to get into the belly of a cat, right? Because they want to live their best life. They want to do what they do and breed and grow and, you know, hashtag live, laugh, love, and so they get to a cat. How do they do that? Well, they actually will make themselves get into mice because they know mice get eaten by cats. This little individual parasite knows this. But it goes two steps further number one, it actually burns out the dendrites the fear center of the mouse's brain and to make less afraid of cats as a prey animal, it runs the other direction. So now it's not afraid of cats, but it takes it a step further. The second piece is it rewires the mouse's brain in order to be sexually attracted to the smell of cat urine so will then seek out cats not be afraid of cats, increasing the likelihood of ending up in a cat's belly. And we've seen tests from people for example, who have been really heroic running into a burning building to save a stranger jumping into the street to push a baby out of the way of a moving car who's not paying attention. Many of them have been infected with toxoplasma bacterium so much so the US military has been mutterings about using it in soldiers for that suffering a battle. But the idea being this one little parasite, right? Has that much power to rewrite an entire biological organism from a mouse to a human, that's one, you have 100 trillion bacteria inside of your gut. If they are in line, picture what they can do for you, if they're out of balance, imagine what they could do to you an afterthought I'll leave you with.

Philip Pape 45:21

And it's a positive one, in my opinion, right? Because now you have the power of choice and control over that to some extent. 100%. You do? Awesome. That's, that's what I take from it. So Josh, where can listeners learn more about you and your work? So

Josh Dech 45:34

easiest way to get a hold of me is over at gut solution.ca. I do work worldwide for those dealing with Crohn's and Colitis. There's links there, of course, to the podcast, any information you want. I'm biased. It's a great show. If you want to learn more about gut specifically, every single week, we have some sort of world famous expert, Steven Gundry. William Lee, we have a famous plastic surgeon from Beverly Hills actually coming in to talk about wound healing, all kinds of cool connects between your gut and your everyday health. And we also do weekly episodes, just q&a. From our listeners submitted question, we make an episode for you. And that's like you mentioned reversible, the Ultimate Health podcast but it can all be found at gut solution.ca. Cut

Philip Pape 46:12

solution.ca. So that's out of Canada. Yes, sir. Calgary,

Josh Dech 46:15

Alberta.

Philip Pape 46:16

That's right. All right. We'll definitely put that in the show notes. And for those listening, follow the podcast reversible, and get all the great content that Josh just mentioned. Josh, it was a pleasure to have you on the show, man.

Josh Dech 46:27

It's a lot of fun pleasure being here. Thanks so much. Hello.

Philip Pape 46:31

Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights. Please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong.

Philip Pape 2/27/24 Philip Pape 2/27/24

Ep 150: Why You Can’t Lose Weight While Others See Great Results

Does losing weight and, more importantly, losing fat feel impossible no matter how hard you try? Have you ever lost 10 pounds only to gain back 15? Do you dread stepping on the scale because it never seems to budge?

If you can't figure out why the formula works for others but not you, this co-created and co-hosted episode breaks down the real reasons you haven’t been seeing results.

Join Philip (@witsandweights) and his special co-host today, Scott Friedman, as they lift the curtain on common weight loss mistakes and provide actionable solutions. You’ll walk away ready to troubleshoot plateaus, optimize body composition, and create a plan that finally helps you shed fat for good.

Scott Friedman (@scottfriedman24) is the host of The Power of Progress podcast. Scott bridges fitness and mindset with his podcast, aiming to end self-sabotage in fitness routines, inspire consistency, and promote a healthier lifestyle. His podcast dismisses fad diets, magic pills, and best routines, focusing instead on personal growth and the journey towards better health.

Today, you’ll learn all about:

3:29 Narrative shift: Fat loss vs. weight loss
6:47 Understanding the road ahead (pitfalls)
9:06 Restrictive diets vs. flexible dieting (the hamster wheel of diet)
14:50 Uninformed optimism or informed pessimism
19:56 Not tracking or inaccurate tracking, and intuitive eating
31:00 Top 5 foods that have hidden calories
41:56 Giving up too quickly and overcoming plateaus
49:53 Too aggressive with the rate of loss
55:20 Understanding what ‘hard’ feels like and getting discouraged
1:01:16 Not prioritizing hunger management: not enough fiber
1:08:51 Not moving enough
1:10:58 Not training with enough load or "intensity"
1:16:28 Cardio for fat loss
1:19:39 Not sleeping enough, too much stress, or too much medium/high-intensity cardio
1:26:25 Outro

Episode resources:

Episode summary:

Embarking on the weight loss journey often feels like navigating a labyrinth, where each turn comes with its own set of myths, misconceptions, and unseen challenges. The pursuit of lifelong health and fitness isn't just about shedding pounds but mastering a sustainable lifestyle that harmonizes the body and mind. In the latest podcast episode, we explore the multifaceted world of weight loss, bringing to light the strategies that pave the way to lasting change.

At the core of successful weight management is understanding body composition, which transcends the digits that appear on a scale. This comprehensive episode dissects the significance of muscle mass in maintaining a healthy metabolism and outlines the fallacies that lead to weight loss plateaus. Co-hosts Philip Pape and Scott Friedman provide a roadmap to navigate common pitfalls like inaccurate calorie tracking and the psychological cycle of dieting that hampers progress.

A critical aspect discussed is the psychology of dieting and the power of flexible nutrition. The conversation illuminates how strict, restrictive diets can backfire, causing binges and a yo-yo effect, whereas a flexible approach allows for sustainable, long-term adherence. Emphasizing adaptability and a realistic perspective on health, the hosts guide listeners through the importance of goal-aligned dietary patterns.

Moreover, the episode underscores the value of tracking progress as a tool for managing nutrition without stress. Personal anecdotes illustrate how tracking can cultivate an understanding of portion sizes and caloric intake. Yet, tracking is not proposed as a lifelong dieting tactic but as a temporary educational step to develop mindful eating habits.

The psychological journey of setting and pursuing fitness goals is another cornerstone topic. The discussion touches upon the behavioral changes necessary for sustainable health improvements. Recognizing that a well-informed mindset is vital to prevent the common pitfall of abandoning goals due to uninformed optimism or unrealistic expectations.

As the episode progresses, listeners are equipped with practical tips for managing hunger and maintaining muscle mass during weight loss. The hosts share their personal experiences and the science behind hunger management, highlighting the benefits of protein-rich and fiber-filled diets for satiety.

In the realm of fitness, the podcast delves into the efficiency of training for fat loss. It dispels the myth that more workout volume is better, advocating for high-load training and the importance of consistent lifting. This section serves as a reminder that smart training is just as crucial as nutrition in the weight loss equation.

Lastly, the episode touches on the essential roles of sleep and stress management in weight loss. The hosts offer actionable advice for enhancing sleep quality and managing life's stressors, demonstrating how these lifestyle factors are intertwined with weight management.

By the end of the episode, listeners are armed with a comprehensive understanding of the complexities of weight loss. The hosts emphasize that the journey to health is an ongoing process that requires a balanced approach to diet, exercise, and mental well-being. The goal isn't to chase quick fixes but to build a foundation for a lifetime of fitness and health.

In essence, this podcast episode is more than just a guide to weight loss; it's an invitation to transform your relationship with health and fitness. With every strategy discussed and every myth debunked, the message is clear: mastering the maze of weight loss is within reach, and the path to a healthier you is ready to be crafted.

Have you followed the podcast?

Get notified of new episodes. Use your favorite podcast platform or one of the buttons below. Then hit “Subscribe” or “Follow” and you’re good to go!

Transcript

Philip Pape 00:00

What if losing weight and more importantly, fat? feels impossible no matter how hard you try, have you ever lost 10 pounds only to gain back 15? Do you dread stepping on the scale because it never seems to budge. If you can't figure out why the formula works for others, but not you, this episode breaks down the real reasons you haven't been seeing results. Join me and my special co host, Scott Freedman of the power of progress podcast. As we lift the curtain on common weight loss mistakes and provide actionable solutions. You'll walk away ready to troubleshoot plateaus, optimize body composition, and create a plan that finally helps you shed fat for good. Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in Wits & Weights community and

Scott Friedman 01:07

the power of progress team.

Philip Pape 01:10

Welcome to a very special co hosted episode co created episode of the show. I'm Philip Pape of the Wits & Weights podcast for skeptics of the fitness industry who want to live longer by getting stronger with strength training and sustainable nutrition.

Scott Friedman 01:25

And I'm Scott Friedman, the host of the power of progress podcast where fitness meets mindset. And for those of you who have trouble getting started and finally want to have long term results. Awesome

Philip Pape 01:35

and this episode is being dropped into both feeds. This is a first ever co created co hosted show where we are teaming up to bring you double the value.

Scott Friedman 01:45

And today we're tackling the frustrating questions of why some people struggle to lose weight while others seem to shed pounds effortlessly. You'll learn about the hidden obstacles that sabotage even the most disciplined dieters from inaccurate tracking up to the weekend and indulgences that erase a week's worth of progress. You'll come away with a clear solution to manage hunger, maintain muscle stimulate fat troubleshoot plateaus based on the latest science on nutrition, metabolism and physiology. You'll also

Philip Pape 02:14

learn a framework for translating motivation into lasting results, we're going to peel back the confusion on how fast you should lose weight. Where does training and movement come into it and the power of your mindset so you can finally make progress. Consider today's episode, your blueprint for optimizing body composition, and designing, eating and training plans that flex to suit your needs. So you can ditch the diet hamster wheel once and for all.

Scott Friedman 02:36

Before we jump in. If you love this show, then you'll love both our shows. And the best way you can support the show is to follow subscribe to both of these shows on your favorite podcast app and get notified for future episodes.

Philip Pape 02:50

And of course, if you're listening on Wits, & Weights, I want you to go right now and check out the power of progress with Scott Friedman and give it a follow.

Scott Friedman 02:57

And if you're listening to power progress follow Wits & Weights with Philip Pape on the podcast app of your choice.

Philip Pape 03:04

All right, man. So now that we've gotten to that very awkward, scripted intro,

Scott Friedman 03:08

probably mostly because of me. No,

Philip Pape 03:10

no, no, no, no, you know, we're experimenting, but I'm sure I'm sure you guys listening are loving it. So we're gonna get into today's topic, which is why you can't lose weight, while others see great results. Now, if you're watching the video, and we're doing this fun little thing where the topic is going to come up on screen. But don't worry if you're only listening to audio, because we're going to say the topic before we get into it. And I'm just going to start with the basics. We're talking about why you can't lose weight, right. But the question I think you should ask yourself is do I want to lose weight? Why am I trying to lose weight? Is that really the goal? And I don't know about you, Scott like it. When you think of the avatars, when you think of body composition, what people want? Do you want to be skinny? Or do you want to be lean and muscled? Right? Lean

Scott Friedman 03:53

and muscle? Right? Like I feel like that's everyone's goal. When they say they want to lose weight? I feel like they're said they want to have lean muscle versus just kind of having this skinny bill. That's my opinion, not at least,

Philip Pape 04:03

exactly right. And I think especially for a lot of women who come come into me as a client, I'm sure you see the same thing. It's more of a reframing to say, Okay, why does the number on the scale matter? Maybe it doesn't matter so much as the performance, the fitness how you look how you feel. And so I always like to make that distinction of fat loss versus weight loss, right? Scale, weight doesn't mean a thing, if how you look how you feel, how you perform isn't what you want. And you know, I have personal experience with this right now, because I just started a fat loss phase. And some of my lifting buddies are saying, Why are you losing fat, you look pretty lean, and I'm 190 the heaviest I've ever been, quote unquote, lean. And I see this with women all the time to where it's like, they can carry 20 more pounds and be lean because they've spent time building muscle first. So before we get into like, here's why you're not losing weight, and if you want to be in a fat loss phase, ask yourself if that's the goal. And then if it is because of fat loss Then we have to get into the details. Scott and I are going to talk about calorie deficits tracking all the other things to get there. So that's my take on that.

Scott Friedman 05:07

I agree. I mean, I think that we have this weird thing in the industry that's like, hey, I want to lose weight, I want the we just use weight as like, the Kleenex term like Kleenex actually isn't the brand, like it's not one brand of tissues actually called facial tissue, but everyone calls a Kleenex, because that's the brand when said, we want to lose weight, they just call it weight loss versus fat loss, because it gets fast, not sexy, or whatever it might be. But the reality is, if your goal is to literally just lose pounds, and that's it, sure, weight loss is great. But if your goal is to look better, than we might want to be talking about fat loss, and if that's the case of scale, doesn't matter. And it really, you said it perfectly, it's just a narrative shift, we have to kind of change that story. Every person I've ever talked to comes to me and says, I want to lose weight. And I'm like, Are you sure? Because if I put him in, so I, my brother and I were about the same height, same weight, so we both weigh about 175 Give or take, I work out, he does not shirts off, we look very, very, very different. But weights all that matters, right? So no, clearly there's something else there. So I think diving into like the fat loss, and people understanding how to look better, from a fat perspective, I think is really what's gonna help people move forward. For

Philip Pape 06:19

sure, man. And one last comment on this. And then we get to the next topic is really weight is a number just like your circumference measurements, just like you know how many calories you eat, just like how much sleep you're getting. And it's important in terms of, okay, if I have a goal, and I know for sure, I'm going to keep training, and then I'm going to go into calorie deficit and lose 20 pounds of fat, I need to know that I'm losing 20 pounds of fat. So of course, weight becomes a relevant statistic over time with the trend. So we can get to some of that. But I want to shift it over to the next topic, Scott. So I'm gonna bring that up on the screen for you. Yeah,

Scott Friedman 06:55

understand the road ahead. I mean, it's building a perspective of what you need to do in order to succeed. So most people jump into a goal without understanding what the road ahead actually looks like. So my example I give for this is, you're not going to go hiking in high heels, like if you know you're going hiking, you're not going to pack high heels to go hiking, very simple, but most people decide that they are going to do that and they are going to wear heels. That's very common when you're trying to lose weight or lose fat, because you think it's going to be the straight path, the straight line for it is going to be super simple. This is it. But the reality is there's gonna be bumps and Ben cracks along the way that you did not account for. And that's what causes a lot of people to quit.

Philip Pape 07:40

Yeah, so what you're saying is, it's not a straight line, it's like any plan, you come up with a plan, it's going to change on day two, I don't remember the famous quote was probably Winston Churchill that had to do with that, like, you have a plan. And you'll get to your end goal at some point, even though it changes on day two. Whereas if you don't have a plan, you just never get there, right? You just meander forever lost in the woods, maybe wearing heels as well. So

Scott Friedman 08:02

overnight wearing heels? I think it's I mean, if Winston Churchill said that's pretty far everyone has a plan to get punched in the mouth, right? What is the plan to go? Do? I'm gonna lose, I'm gonna lose 40 pounds of fat, I'm gonna do all this and then not realize that, Oh, wow. For week four to eight, I didn't lose. What do you use weight here as a catch all term for the moment. But oh, I didn't lose any weight for four to eight weeks. It's like, yeah, like, that's probably going to happen along the way. And if you're able to account for that, when you go through it, you're going to be less discouraged moving forward, and therefore more likely to stick to what you're doing. And so that's kind of the, the emphasis of understand the road ahead. Because if you just think, perfect, awesome, things will always go my way, you're going to be disappointed. And that disappointment leads to failing, if you can understand, okay, throughout the 40 weeks or 20 weeks, what I whatever I'm doing, there's gonna be issues that are going to arise, I'm going to have the cake at the wedding, I'm going to do this, I'm gonna go on vacation, if you can plan for those things, or at least acknowledge they're going to happen, you are significantly more likely to stick with what you're trying to do long term. And I think people just kind of missed that. They just think it should be perfect all the time.

Philip Pape 09:06

And I think that's a perfect segue into the next diet. We're talking about restrictive versus a flexible approach, which is exactly what you're saying. It's like having that adaptability for life. Because life is going to happen as opposed to seeing life as this anomaly that came out of nowhere that you couldn't plan for it's going to happen, right? We we look at the history, we look at the science of dieting, it's no surprise that when you tell yourself, I'm not going to eat these 80% of foods that are available to me that you're going to eventually binge and you're going to fall off the wagon, so to speak, and get off track, whatever you want to call it because you've given yourself such a restrictive, prescriptive approach to your diet as in I'm only going to eat meat carnivore folks, or I'm not going to eat carbs, keto folks, right. And I always say like, Okay, if you love eating that way, I'm gonna use that word. Like if you just just crave and love and you get up every day, you're like, Yes, I'm on keto. Like this is amazing. I get to keep for the rest of my life. Perfect Man for you. How many people do that? How many people are like, hey, I really want to have a car I'm here and, or even on cardboard or like an orange would be nice. I don't know. So we you know, without getting into all the science like that goes back for decades. restrictive diets cause you to binge they caused you to gain weight again, it's hard to maintain the weight loss. And it's because just what Scott was saying, You're not giving yourself room, Grace, flexibility, you know, whatever adaptability. But if you say, You know what, I'm going to stick within some targets that align with my goals, but give myself 100% freedom to pick what I want to eat to meet those goals. Compare those two approaches, and imagine which one's more successful.

Scott Friedman 10:42

I might take a slightly different approach on this I kind of I like it because I am very much anti like dieting 100%, but maybe not for the same reasons I do think you have. Let's just say there's 30 Major diets out there, you know, carnivore keto, which I've done, I've done a lot of these whole 30 I guess, vegans, Titan thing, one, but that's more of a lifestyle thing. Whatever it is, they

Philip Pape 11:04

want you to think it's a lifestyle, right?

Scott Friedman 11:08

They all say that in their lifestyle. Half the people that do it are like, this is the greatest thing ever. And they can show you research, they can show you status studies that is like this is so beneficial for you. The other half are like this was terrible. I didn't see any result. And the research they show you is horrible, terrible. You shouldn't do it for your body for you can talk about keto is a great example how you know, there's evidence to support keto evidence against keto, what's true, it's probably somewhere in the middle. So my take on that is, you know, first, when you're doing a diet, if you're not trying to learn how to do it on your own, and you're consistently being restricted all the time, and don't really learn why you're doing or what you're doing that I think it's a giant waste of time, because it's not sustainable, long term. If you're like, look, this is what I love, like you were saying before, fine, go for I have nothing against people who do keto long term, I have nothing against people who don't who are vegans long term I know nothing against because if it works for you, and you can do it and you enjoy it, and this is the goal you want to go for, because they probably do work for the right person. But the reality is most of these diets are meant to be kind of a medium to get you to the result you want. And then you stop. And that's the issue. Is that the stopping point? So if you get to the issue of keto, right, the biggest issue with keto in my opinion, is people will do it, they lose either keto, I lost 25 pounds in two months. And I didn't gain it back because I knew exactly how to do the reading the refeeding period, most people finish their goal gave me I did it and then they go, Wow, that cake looks delicious, those dogs are great, they get back into old habits. And without that strict that strict protocol, they gain all the weight back. Because they didn't learn it, they don't know that they just did a goal. They didn't learn anything. And now they're not eating as restrictive and therefore, they're not seeing the results anymore. So that's where I take a little bit of a different approach of like, it's more of like, if you can go into it. Number one, knowing this is what you're going to be doing. Or you can learn how to almost undo it. Like when you're not get to keep the results when you're done, then I'm kind of look go for it. But overall for the average person for me specifically, like I don't flexible dieting, I like to eat what I want to eat, when I want to eat it for the most part, obviously, the hit your, your macros, and we'll probably get into that a little bit later. But that's my kind of my take away of the eating and how do you have to enjoy it? I'm not sure I enjoy what I'm eating now. But I also have a lot of restrictions because I have a really bad stomach. So you know, it's almost like I kind of eat just I eat to survive Most of the time. So I'm not really sure I'm the best example of it. But that's kind of my slightly different take on restrictive dieting.

Philip Pape 13:41

Yeah, no, I hear you. Sometimes when I get a conversation with a client, and I'm like, I make a suggestion like remember, I don't eat I can't eat this, this this and like, Ah, that's right. That's right. That's right. I should have looked at my notes on that. You can't eat

13:52

turkey every single day for a year.

Philip Pape 13:57

Yeah, no, I mean, we're pretty aligned, you know. And our however we communicate this may resonate with different people. But I was talking to Bill Campbell religion, as I mentioned, and he talks about the keto diet and muscle building. And again, it comes down to your specific goal, if you want to use it short term versus long term, all these things. And for some people who are eating just the standard American diet with like 70%, ultra processed foods, if you went to keto or carnivore or Mediterranean, whatever, it'd be a massive improvement. And it would jumpstart you toward you know, better health. But then the problem is people get in their mindset, oh, everything associated with keto needs to be retained, because it's better as opposed to, oh, I ended up you know, getting rid of like some toxic things I was intolerant to and I got rid of the processed foods, and I learned how to be more filled, you know, satiety, and they don't introduce things back ever right and that's what leads to the restriction in my opinion, but up All right, anyway, we're gonna talk a lot more about dieting and stuff as we go through. I want to get into some mindset stuff, Scott, because that is where your expertise lies. So take it away with us next time. Okay, so

Scott Friedman 15:00

this is kind of the behavior change aspect of things. This is kind of where my bread and butter is I love nutrition certified fitness or all that stuff, same as you, but you definitely had the mechanics and I kind of go through the mindset aspect a little bit more and uninformed optimism and informed pessimism, what does that mean? So I'm gonna use New Years as kind of the the catch all here. That's what the easiest way to understand that what happens on New Year's every single year right and I'm not making fun this is just this is what happens is you say, Okay, I'm gonna jump into this, I'm going to do this amazing, I'm gonna go to the gym, I'm gonna lose all this weight, it's gonna be awesome. Or my friend told me about this new awesome diet, or all you have to do is order the smoothies and you're going to lose 40 pounds, you jump into something, you hear something shiny, you're like, oh my gosh, that's so let me do that. I'm gonna jump over here. Then you start to do it. And you're like, ah, yeah, this sucks. Like, I no longer wait, like, this is harder than I thought it was. The results are harder, I had to do way more, I thought it was just buy this drink this I'm gonna get I thought it was all this easy stuff. And now you're realizing that wow, this really is not as easy as I thought. And you get to the informed pessimism. So the uninformed optimism aspect of kind of goal setting, jumping into things is I'm happy, I'm jubilant, I can't wait to do it. I'm so excited, motivated to workout every day motivated for this diet, then you realize, Wow, this isn't going to be as easy as I thought it was gonna be. And then you get to the informed pessimism where now you're sad. Now you're discouraged. Now you're annoyed, frustrated, whatever the word is you want to use, because it's not we thought it was, it's harder than you thought it was. And now it's like, you kind of hit a crossroads, or you kind of hit this thing called the valley of despair, where you have a couple choices. One, you can either jump to the next shiny object that you see, another friend is doing a different diet or a different workout program, you jump to that with uninformed optimism, and you go through the same cycle. Or you can stick with what you're doing realize you may have made the mistake, but if you keep going, you can progress through. And people kind of hit that that that point. And so it's kind of it looks like I think it was a reverse parabola, I think is the word I want to use. For all your math, people out there is the very bottom, they have a choice to either go back up, or circle back around. And a lot of people just circle back around. Yo Yo dieting is the exact the exact example of this, where it's just up, down, up, down, up, down, or a different diet every six months, because it's not working. It was easier, harder, easier, harder. So that's uninformed optimism, informed pessimism. And the biggest thing is just don't jump into things without actually maybe taking five minutes to look it up. Look at reviews, look at what you actually have to do talk to someone talk to someone who's done it before, how hard is this? Like, is this actually super easy. And I think when you put yourself in a situation, that can give you negative a negative feedback loop, you're just significantly less likely to continue moving forward. And that's why a lot of people quit. People, a lot of people quit, no goals aren't specific enough on New Year's or, you know, I didn't realize what I was doing, or I jumped in too fast. All of this stuff can be avoided, if you just take a second to think about or ask an expert, or whatever it is, what does this actually look like? What do I actually have to do for this, get some information, and then you can make your informed decision so that you can actually start seeing results and actually understand that this is what heart is going to feel like this is what's going to feel like as I do this, versus wow, I didn't realize that was gonna suck, I should start over or just give up forever, you burn out and you stop. And a year later, you're talking to Philip, right? Hey, I need to coach because I gave up a year ago because, you know, I didn't realize what I was doing, I would get really depressed about it, which happens all the time. So just taking a little bit of insight prior to is super important that

Philip Pape 18:33

impulsiveness, which I can be accused of, of wanting to jump into things, you've learned to temper it a little bit, like you said, with sleeping on it, you know, just sleeping on it, and then getting the info. It's what marketers used to latch on to people and take advantage of their, their high when they get exposed to like the shiny object, right? It's like, I gotta lose weight, and I'm ready to go. And by the way, you're gonna get a 20% discount if you sign up right now and right, all of that, that's kind of take advantage of that psychology. So the converse, like you said, is like, you know, take it easy, get get informed, listen to our podcast, which you know, will educate you. But also, when you're trying to do things like don't do so many things. Don't take such a huge leap. You know, maybe dip your toe in and do those baby steps, do the you know, push your comfort zone, don't don't go way outside your comfort zone. All of this is great, like mindset from day one before even get to any of this and decide that I'm just going to do some crazy diet or program for for weight loss. Anything more on that? No,

Scott Friedman 19:28

I think that's it just I think the takeaway is, look, when you're looking to do anything, it doesn't matter what it is just don't just jump into it, take a second read if the offer is too good to be true, or they're like, Oh, this is the last hour to screw them. Like just take a second, you know, and think it through. And then when you make your decision, whatever it is, stick with it, hammer it out. Don't give up after one week, give it some time to see if it actually work and then push forward with it. So those would be my takeaways as they get through and push for once you do it.

Philip Pape 19:55

Cool, man. Yeah. So let's keep going with this train here and get into one My favorite topics which is tracking and I want to say like 80% of the people that reach out to me, you know, Facebook or wherever else and and have an issue a challenge like, Hey, I'm having trouble losing weight, or now I'm a woman in my 40s menopause, perimenopause hormones are catching up to me. I can't lose weight. One of my first questions always is, do you know how much you eat? Like, are you tracking? Just a very simple thing like that. And this can apply to lots of things in life, but we're talking food here. You can't possibly know that you're actually in a deficit if you don't know how much you're eating, and how much you need to eat. Right? Simple as that. So what are the biggest roadblocks for people when it comes to weight loss? Fat Loss is just they don't know how many calories they burn. They don't know how much they eat. They don't know how much fiber do I need macros, like all that stuff. On top of that, it's a mystery, what their life looks like in a given week, meaning they graze from their kids plates, they eat the candy from the bowl in the office, they drink, you know, three glasses of beer, not just one or two, right? Or it's a big heavy Imperial Stout that I love. And it's like 400 calories, not 200 calories. But it's only one glass, one glass. It's a glass of beer, right? They're all the same glass, glass of beer. Right? So you have all these hidden calories, and then the weekends. So the classic like Monday through Friday, I'm quote unquote, good. And then I eat a little bit more on the weekend. Now even a lot more on the weekend, most likely, I could go to the Mexican restaurant in town with my wife and like even having eaten a big lunch and not be too hungry. And I'll easily come out 1500 calories from my dinner from the chips and all that you know the cheese, right? So people talk about intuitive eating. And I like to always push back and say, Look until you've developed the skill of knowing you how much you eat, what you like to eat your habits, your meal, timing, all of that. Even, you know, irrespective of dieting and gaining just awareness, just knowledge until you have that. You can't be intuitive in anything. Like what is intuitive. I'm just going to eat till I'm full. I mean, you might disagree. I don't know we can get into like Intuitive Eating versus the skill of intuitive eating that you develop after tracking. But yeah, one of the biggest problems is that you're just not tracking for some time to gain that awareness, even if you're not going to track long term. Yeah,

Scott Friedman 22:17

I mean, I am when I first started, and I think people would be surprised to hear this is I tracked everything. I mean, I'm talking I would literally buy a bag of baby carrots and I would literally count 12 Carrots owl for 35 calories and write it down. Okay, that's it I was made fun of all the time. It's just like crazy. Religiously tracking it like just craziness. And but a built the system. Like I was able to kind of No, I don't do that. But I was able to build the system. Okay, I kind of now I can eyeball this. I can look at this and say okay, that's a portion of here. I have now have that skill set to do it. I think tracking is monumentally important. I'll give two major examples. One I had a client, I should have a client. Many clients were like, Hey, I eat great. Look at what they're eating. Oh, you are eating great. That's perfect. I'm not losing weight or fat. I mean, okay, well, are you sure you're tracking everything? Yes, I am. Okay. Well, first thing is you're not they've the Phantom calories hearts about the one Oreo they pick up or the what? Oh, yeah, I forgot track that read that people always forget to track kind of the nuances. They don't realize serving sizes are actually significantly smaller than what we think they would be, I believe, as I said, or is one Oreos like 70 calories. I mean, just just throwing it out there for everyone. Like that's, that's not a small number like because you're not eating one or you're eating for so like that's a little bit different. I also think that when it comes to people don't realize you can over eat unhealthy food too. I mean, healthy foods great. It's great for nutrients. It's great. Such a feel your body, but you can overeat it. My dad was trying to lose weight a couple years ago, and he was eating awesome. I was like you're eating healthy. How are you losing weight? This is perfect. And then he tells me he's having a bag of almonds every day. And I'm gonna go, What do you mean the 100 Calorie pack of almonds? No, I don't Well, I don't know, a bag of almonds shows you the bag. The whole bag is like 800 calories worth of almonds. They go let's go dude, like your 500 above your main like you can't. And so I think when you don't track it, it's very difficult to understand what's happening. I'm not saying you have to be a religious track because a lot of people don't want to track because it's it can be hard. It can be tedious. It's restrictive. But I find that when you start tracking number one, you're instantly cutting off about 300 calories a day because you don't put number one you don't want to put it on the sheet to show your Coach Self accountability. Right like you had the receipt and you don't want to show me when you had that. It's number one you get or you realize, oh I didn't realize I was doing that you get start getting rid of your calories. Number two, you're able to kind of see how much of something is and then start to kind of build that quote unquote, intuition over time as you kind of get better at it. So I am a huge believer in tracking I think there's a time in place for I think that at least track your main meal right at least get the main culprits or what you can track out Obviously, not every restaurant has, you know, the tracking mechanism available, right. But like, maybe there are a lot of mainstream restaurants that do so do it where you can, and the more you can do it, you are decreasing the percentage chance that you get it wrong, that's all I'm trying to do is just decrease the chance that we get it wrong, let's increase your probability of success doesn't be perfect. You know, 80% is better than 50%. Right. And that's what I'm trying to do. So I think tracking is important. And what I tell people to do is if you just if you hate tracking fine track for three days, let's get a baseline of what you're trying to do. The intuitive eating part, my first gut instinct to Intuitive Eating is like, go pound sand. Like I think it's the dumbest thing because, like, how can you have intuition? If you've never done it before? Or you have like, your intuition got you elicit I'm not trying, I'm not trying to mean either. Like, the reality is, if you're trying to lose 50 pounds, you're probably obese. And your intuition got you there.

Philip Pape 25:54

Got you there. Yeah,

Scott Friedman 25:55

got you there. So using that same method, how is it gonna get you I know, maybe you're paying attention more, but I think you need to something's disconnected, I think you need to learn the skills. And then over time, I think you'll you can gain the skill of intuition or the intuitions as skill, not just a trait, I think you have to learn it. And then once you get good enough, then you can start being well, this was about this or this is, by the way, it's still I've been doing it for over a decade. And it's still difficult, I still screw up olive oil, or whatever it is all the time. And I'm over eating or handfuls of stuff. So I think that tracking is monumentally important, because it's just it's very difficult to do on its own. All

Philip Pape 26:31

well said, I want to expand on a couple of those. So just with the intuition and the intuitive eating, I find that when you're at maintenance, when you're just trying to maintain your weight, if you've gone through one or two phases, where you have tracked a bit, and you get a sense for those hunger signals, and you've regulated the foods that you're eating, right, where you're now eating the protein you need and everything. And you just keep eating that way. And listen to your body, it's it's pretty good for keeping you, you know, at roughly the same weight, give or take, say two, three to five pounds, once you have that skill, but as soon as you try to go to fat loss, for example, which I'm doing right now, myself, I've done this like five times. And I always forget the hunger and some of the other aspects that you know, not at you, while you're in that phase, where if I wasn't tracking, I would have to like, they would require some level of discipline and willpower above and beyond. Because I'm not tracking to say like, I need to, I need to sit with that hunger, knowing that that hunger is telling me I'm in that deficit. And it's kind of a weird thing, you know, but if I had the numbers, I'm like, Okay, I got 1000 calories left, I'm just gonna plant it in, I'm going to sit with my hunger and work around it next day. Right.

Scott Friedman 27:32

And it actually like people take the hunger as a bad thing. That's a great point. And think about that. Like, if you have that hunger pain, we'll call it from one day of not eating all the way as we do in the US. But if you have 500 calories left, you know that you can eat more. And if you're not tracking almost mentally, like oh my god, what do I do? Do I eat? Why not even try to lose weight? Am I over? Just take half of that discipline out of the equation? And the discipline goes, Look, if I'm out of calories, I know a lot of calories today. And I got it now my body's just fighting me. This is normal. And it takes a little bit of that stress off. That's great. That's a great point. Yeah, yeah.

Philip Pape 28:05

And even and even when you are tracking, it's it also gives you a calibration against the hunger so that if you're trying to improve the signal, the hunger signals, like if you're trying to, you can never out game hunger, but there's like tricks, you know, that we all try to do. If you can do that and say, Okay, now I know I'm in a deficit, and I've mitigated hunger as much as possible, it's a great place to be, you know, it gives you that confidence. As far as like the minutiae of the friction of tracking, which comes up all the time, like, oh, that sounds tedious, like I like to come in from from it from two perspectives. One on one side, at least when I have a new client, it's let's not worry about all the different specific food selections right now, let's just get more protein and fiber in there in general, right in every meal, because that's going to that additive approach is going to start displacing other things and crowding out the other foods, and you're gonna start feeling better and fuller anyway, at the same time, while you're tracking, I don't want you to get neurotic about it. Like, I want you to just, if you feel tedious about it, reach out to me, because I will probably give you a hack that's going to make it less tedious such as when someone says like, well, there's 20 ingredients on my salad. Like, how about just track the one ingredient that gives you the calories in that salad or you know, like, type in house salad and look it up and just ballpark it. Trust me if you're within 30% That's actually good enough. Even the evidence has supported this like plus or minus 30% of what you think it is. versus not tracking at all is actually good enough to get you to your goals just so people don't stress out. There are ways around that friction.

Scott Friedman 29:31

What's the most important track of all so calories? Protein, carbs, fat Well, or sugar fiber? What will be like your like numbers, they're like they're fighting you. What's the one thing you will at least track this?

Philip Pape 29:42

Oh, yeah, that's it's between protein and calories. It depends because like, you can kind of know you're getting enough protein without tracking it. But it's a lot harder to know you're getting enough calories without tracking it. You know what I mean?

Scott Friedman 29:54

Yeah, I switch it based on the client that has based on need, like what is their specific goal and feel like If it's weight loss, I might do protein, because they're not losing weight that we know or just eating too many calories versus protein. I want to reserve as much muscle as I possibly can. So sometimes I'll switch it off. But yeah, it's tough one, right? Check the one thing, it can be tough. And

Philip Pape 30:14

for people listening to your podcast and hearing me, all my clients track and and we track a lot. So like, if that doesn't appeal to you, you're not going to work with me. It's just it's a binary thing. So like, I don't do portions I don't do, you know, intuitive, I don't do just this or just that. We track everything. But trust me, I use tools that are very, very frictionless to make it as easy as possible. And to me, like if you get those quick wins, and you're using that low friction process that works together. But if you're using tools that are a little bit more frustrating, or you're not, you're not taking a 8020 approach, that's where you can like shoot yourself in the foot no matter what you're doing. What's like,

Scott Friedman 30:49

what's like a tool, like what you mean by a tool, I got a hotline like calculator or like, What do you

Philip Pape 30:53

mean? No, I mean, so my clients whose macro factor by stronger by science, it's a food logging app.

Scott Friedman 30:57

Got it a specific app. Yeah, gotcha. Makes sense. I wanted to give a little bit of a takeaway, or we can kind of split up a little bit, but like the top five things that do like hidden calories, what were your take, what are your top five foods or whatever it is to have like hidden issues that people don't realize is like, Oh my God, this has so many calories in it. And if you either eliminate or do half of what you're doing, you actually just couldn't see

Philip Pape 31:18

instant results. Yeah, you want me to go through all five that I've got? Yeah, go for it. Okay, so, yeah, what I came up with is first high calorie drinks. Super easy to change, right? You can go from coke to Diet Coke, Coke from alcohol. The lighter alcohol or non alcoholic beer, which I'm huge into right now is non alcoholic beer. It's fun, it's tasty and a lot less calories. And then the fancy coffees, everyone gets a Starbucks Come on, like, oh, it's Olivia, dessert. Me? No.

Scott Friedman 31:46

You don't need all that you're drinking 1000 calories for coffee. It's not uncommon. Just pump that sugar and call it what it is. Sometimes it's a milk smoothie or whatever it it's just like it's not even real coffee.

Philip Pape 31:56

It is and I think some people have like there's a little bit of a blind spot that there are options. And so sometimes it is just information like hey, you love hot chocolate. Did you know hot chocolate is like cocoa and some sort of milk base that you can take like almond milk, cocoa and some stevia and have like almost no calorie hot chocolate. It tastes pretty good. Like, you know, hacks like that. So that's, that's the first one. Second one is sauces and dressings. And that's a catch all for like, hidden stuff that's in restaurant food. But even when you make a sandwich, and you slather some Manny's on there, man, if you weigh that on a food scale, you'll see like a very thin, like scrape of mayonnaise will give you like 100 calories. So you know, just watch out like mustard is great too, and it's almost no calories. So that's number two. If you're in

Scott Friedman 32:43

anywhere in Chicago, I think they're started open up more across the country but Portillo's has like this house trusting that they have the tiny brick into this big 250 calories and they give you two to three of them to put on your salads. Your salads like 600 calories, add 1500 calories and you don't even realize it tastes so good. So yeah, I agree understand sauces dressings. Just be careful because it up some shocked at how little you need to get the serving size and most service sizes are pretty hefty. I mean, these aren't they're not small. No,

Philip Pape 33:17

they're not. And it's mostly because of the fat right? It was very calorie dense. When I met my wife, you know, she eats salads dry. Like she doesn't use any dressing, which was shocking to me, because I love blue cheese dressing and you know, oil vinegar. But what I'll do now is I'll get like the I don't know if it's bubbles, or what's that brand of barbecue sauce. It's like almost no calories. You know, and barbecue sauce on salad sounds weird, but it kind of tastes like that. Like, what does that berry French dressing or whatever. I know it sounds weird, but you gotta get the right type. It tastes like what's that orange dressing? French dressing

Scott Friedman 33:49

mustard, beautiful bustled salads.

Philip Pape 33:51

No, that's crazy, man.

Scott Friedman 33:55

But by barbecue sauce is where I am not advocating for barbecue sauce on salads. I also don't eat barbecue sauce. So that's just oh, your various reasons. That's okay. But boy, I can see what you're saying. I mean, my favorite dressing personally is balsamic vinegar. I love that. So that's my, that's my go to for almost everything. And

Philip Pape 34:12

one other hack there. Just Just before we go on is like if you have a salad, I like chicken thigh salads when I'm in fat loss phase, because the little bit of extra fat on the chicken thigh acts as a dressing on the salad without very much fat at all. So it's like just coating that salad with a little bit of that mouthfeel from the fat is what we're going for, right? Yeah. Number three would be everything that's called Healthy that they sell in the store in the middle, in the middle aisles. So everything that's a healthy package snack. Not everything. But I mean, just to kind of look at the data, just look what's in there could be much more calorie dense than you think. And I think we know this if you go back to like the 80s when they started the low fat craze and snack walls and all that to today. It's all food science is meant to be highly palatable and getting you to eat more of it and no matter what it's it's going to compare If not going to be favorable compared to Whole Foods, right? No matter how healthy they call it,

Scott Friedman 35:05

oh 100 I mean, and we're also not saying By the way, just because it's calorically dense or than you think it is that you shouldn't eat it, we're just saying, be aware because for example, I buy this granola that is relatively healthy all things considered for granola pretty healthy, you know, organic stuff. And like, that's a serving, like it's so small, and I will find myself eating from the bag, I'll have like six servings without even trying and eat servings 150 calories, and it's just, it's dense, you just have to be aware of it. Because food companies are not your friends. They're not your friends are the opposite of Finding Nemo fish are friends, not food, like these people are not friends at all like they're, they're hunting you like sharks, they know they know they're doing, it's deliberately set to you. So yeah, anything that's labeled healthy or even low calorie is I still think, probably a trap is my take on it.

Philip Pape 35:57

Yeah, 90% of the time. Now, there's some interesting little hacks, Scott that people look at me weirdly when I say it, but like if I have a client who's in fat loss, and I'm fairly low calories, and they're like craving a sandwich, like look, you know that you know, the Excel these this keto bread, it's kind of interesting. It's made with like, wheat starch mixed with a bunch of fiber. It's all it is. And it's actually like 15 grams of fiber and a slice for 40 calories. So I'm like, you know, so there's a magic of food science out there that could serve you, depending on the context we're talking about. Right? So yeah, number four hidden thing would be eating out, just eating out in general. Because just like food manufacturers, restaurants want you to enjoy, have as much food as you can have a bunch of sugar, salt, fat, so you say it's the best thing you've ever had. And then come again and tell your friends how wonderful the food was. If they're not trying to serve your body composition goals, they don't care about. They just care about a delicious meal, which is why you go out to eat, usually for the experience and for the food. So I'm fine. If you want to eat out, plan for it, and know what you're getting into. And then make some smart swaps or choices, not to the extent where you're like suffering and feel like it's not a fun experience like that. That's the counter to his argument is I want you to enjoy the slight indulgence of what you're getting in a restaurant, but do it in a smart way.

Scott Friedman 37:17

No, just I say never eat out does don't do that. Don't go

Philip Pape 37:21

don't eat out food hack.

Scott Friedman 37:23

Hidden calories. Food, don't eat food. You don't eat food. You can't get calories. Now. I agree with you. I think I went to a restaurant recently, actually, shockingly. And this is this. I think this will shock people. I think it was it was either a mozzie it was like a cheese cake five, seven along those lines. I don't know exactly. But the burger and fries was less calories than the salad. Oh, yeah. Like, I'm sitting here. Like, I went ahead and there was an omelet on there as well for breakfast, more calories in the salad. And I was like, How is this possible? And they just they just I mean, we're talking 1500 2000 calories for a meal. That's not even I mean, it's filling but like that's only for one meal, you have a whole rest of the day to go. You can eat your entire daily allotment in one sitting in a restaurant. So it's not that you shouldn't eat out. It's just that be aware of when you're eating out that if you're going to do it, you're doing it and just be aware of it. So it doesn't negatively affect you mentally. Because that's the biggest thing I eat. I eat out. I had wings the other day. I mean, it is what it is not barbecue wings, but I had something. And but yeah, so I agree with you eating out is crazy.

Philip Pape 38:29

Yeah, and the last one I think we touched on already, which is just mindless eating, you know, the grazing? Well, well, what let me let me add nuance here, because mindless isn't just the hidden things that you don't know you're eating. It's the fact that we in modern society are always stimulated by something and doing something we are working or what maybe we're reading a book even but we're always like watching an iPad, watching our phone, doing something eating at the same time. And that can cause you to consume way more calories than if you just were a little bit mindful about I'm not asking you to do like these complex you know, meditative practices of mindful eating that take you know, 45 minutes you can you can

Scott Friedman 39:07

Should we do a reverse? Should we do a reverse influencer take where it's like it before every bite you must meditate like Wim Hof for 30 minutes before every bite of popcorn you can do that. There you

Philip Pape 39:18

go. And that one bite is going to just feel be so filling you won't want another bite of popcorn. Yeah, I know.

39:26

Hi, my name is Lisa and I'd like to Big shout out to my nutrition coach Philip Pape with his coaching I have lost 17 pounds. He helped me identify the reason that I wanted to lose weight and it's very simple longevity. I want to be healthy, active and independent until the day I die. He introduced me to this wonderful Apple macro factor I got that part of my nutrition figured out along with that is the movement part of nutrition. There's a plan to it and really helped me with that. The other thing he helped me with was knowing that I need to get a lot of steps in so the more steps you have, the higher your expenditure is and the easier it is to lose weight when it's presented to you he presents it, it makes even more sense. And another thing that he had was a hunker guide. And that really helped me. So thank you below.

Scott Friedman 40:09

What do you could do is like it, you know, like, I tend to graze. Because I work I work from home. Alright, so my kitchens over there, it's very easy to get to one day I try and do is basically if it's not on a plate, I don't eat it. So I had to pour it on a plate or a bowl. So I could physically see how much I mean. Because if you just do it from the bag, it's just unless we put on a plate, at least you can see it and I believe, don't don't quote me on the size on this, I believe, as you see, we put on a smaller plate, it'll look bigger, and therefore as quote unquote, a hack to make you think you're eating more. There was actually a study done that says our perceptions will indicate our fullness on what we're eating. They basically did, they the three persons that control group study where they gave someone a 300 calories smoothie, they gave one group, the same smoothie was that was 100 calories, they gave a second group the same, so they said it was 900 calories. And they reacted as exactly as you think they would the group that got 100 Calorie smoothie was like, Oh, we're so hungry, we gotta keep going. And the group that had the 900 Calorie smoothie, all the same calories was like we're so full, we can't keep going. So perspective plays a huge role in that grazing mentality. Because you just every 20 minutes go, you're like, oh my god, anything. But if you put on a plate in a bowl, and you see it, it could again, it could help you not eat as much just little things that no extra effort at all.

Philip Pape 41:24

There's so many things like that. I mean, my wife makes the best desserts, and she doesn't like a lot of sugar. So she just leaves out a lot of the sugar. Now sometimes it's replaced with more eggs or butter, which is kind of defeats the purpose. But if in general, it's just a reduction in sugar, I get this, like, you know, this cake and I end up like logging it as a cake. But then realizing I'm actually I'm satisfied. But I noticed that I don't get quite as many calories as I think over the long term because of the fear workout. You know what I'm saying? So like you said, you can trick yourself a little bit in that regard. Okay, so yeah, that was the five things you want to go on to some more mindsets of yours just jump all the way or officially just jump to the next topic? Let's do it. perfect

Scott Friedman 42:05

segue my audience like learn Oh, my audience like no talk more about the foodstuff? We Scott talks about this too much. So basically giving up too quickly overcoming plateaus. I mean, it's I, when we are in the journey, it's very easy to get frustrated here all the time, hey, when do I have to switch my workout or, Hey, it's been two weeks, I'm not seeing weight loss results. Sometimes it takes time. And I think knowing that, again, we talked about kind of builds on each other, knowing that when you go into it and prepare for it, it helps you set proper expectations. If you're three weeks in and quit, because you don't see a change in the mirror on this terrible scale right away. It goes into you're trying to win at something when the reality is there is this concept out there that I call the infinite versus finite paradox of health. And what it is, is basically take a board game, for example, monopoly, there is a clear winner and loser at Monopoly shots, there's a clear winner and loser at shots. Those are finite games, there is a determined ending to determine rule set, and there's a winner. There's just ends. When it comes to your health. It ends when it ends, okay, morbidly like it was not great. It ends with S, but it doesn't end until that point. It's an ongoing cycle forever, right until the last day. And so the issue is we're playing like a, we're playing a chess game. But there's no end to it. And the issue is we think there's this end to it's when people Oh, my God, I lost 40 pounds, and then stop what they're doing. Right? They're like, Oh, and then they gain the 40 pounds back because they stop what they're doing. So the same concept applies, oh, my gosh, I had a bad three weeks. Okay, so what you have another 88,000 weeks to go and you have so much more time to go. We're playing an infinite game where there's no direct winning and losing, it's just about getting to where you want to go and maintain it over time. The key is maintaining it over time. Versus once you get there, nothing magical happens. You're not a better person. I mean, maybe you are but like nothing changes except you just have to keep doing it. Now once you get there becomes easier because you've done it and it's easier to stay I think once you get there, but it's don't go into a journey and spend all the time effort. And number one give up before you even make results because I plateaued well don't just keep going the one thing, think about any field in life, almost any field in life, I can't think of one that is more definitive than fitness and nutrition. There is a clear one to one ratio, eat less calories, lose weight over time, you know, so on so forth, very clear directions. You don't have that in relationships. You don't have that in your job necessarily. You don't I mean, there's nothing that really is like that. And yet it's one of the hardest things for us to accomplish. But take that perspective and take it like a 30,000 foot view and go okay, hold on a second Am I just do this over and over and over and over again. I might not get the instant gratification that I want in the mirror right away. It's on my one bicep curl and look in the Myranda Okay, one bias look like you're not going to get that at the gym. But if you just keep going, and you track over time get not not terrible, not no double crazy what you're going to see results, because there is a direct correlation to what we're trying to do here. And you learn, you grow, you get experience, but people give up so quickly, because they want this, they want to win at this game. And they don't realize that well, what happens after you win, you usually revert back to what you're doing beforehand, which is bad and got to where you were in the first place. And then they don't realize that you have to maintain it over time. So I think going into it understand that this is not something that you do to win, you do it for longevity, you do it so that you can maintain it forever. And I think that it's a very difficult in almost intangible mindset to have. But that's the true nature of health and fitness is that there's no winning at it, it's just yet to get there and maintain it. And that's the game. It's forever. So that's my take on it.

Philip Pape 45:54

It's a very profound concept. And that was that's a really good take. Because, yeah, I want to be deadlifting when I'm 95, and then just keel over the next day like, right, that's

Scott Friedman 46:03

the best way to do it. I

Philip Pape 46:04

don't know, where I'm gonna extend that, because when you talked about tracking and data and awareness, and like, it's not an on off switch, one way that I think we can make it more tangible, right, I'm sure you would agree is the process itself. Like, where can we set ourselves up to get wins daily, I mean, daily, multiple times a day, that's objective, so that we know there's there's going to be something in three weeks or three months or six months, knowing that it works. Now a lot of people don't have the confidence that what they're doing is going to work, because they've tried this, that and the other for the last 30 years. And none of those have worked. Why should we trust Scott, why should we trust Philip, and that is, that's a big barrier to overcome, right. And so that's where like other people who have gone through that you have to to look at objectively at the space and not, you know, not trust marketers and salespeople necessarily, but maybe talk to individuals who've gone through this. And then think about in your own life, as you're listening to this. If you're trying to build muscle, like Scott said, the bicep curl in and of itself isn't going to show you anything. But if you curl, you know, 20 pounds last week, and now your goal is like 22 and a half. And then you do it. Like that's objective data you got stronger that you can get a win from and be super happy about and celebrate, and then go to the next day and the next day after that. So if you can apply that to all the different areas of fitness, not one day, not right now. Like instantly, just pick one thing and then build on it. That in my opinion is a way to not give up too quickly. Because you are seeing progress even on a daily basis.

Scott Friedman 47:33

I just think I think the hard part is doing that. I think the hard part is because people look in the mirror and go I haven't changed. I worked out three days last week, I haven't changed. It's how do we get them from the like, stop worrying about the physical and worry about what we can actually track right now. And we will track the physical, but that just it just takes time. I mean, think of I told my client once I got in trouble for this, so I don't recommend it. But this is me, right? A Nutshell is basically, you know, it was three, we work it out for three weeks together, and they came like once or twice a week, right? So it's very much like, okay, good, good job. But like, we got to do more. They're getting now I'm not seeing any results. This is ridiculous. Of course, we're not even doing diet or just personal training. So I'm like, great. I tell him I look them. And I'm a young gun at this point. So I probably should have been doing this. And I've had decades

Philip Pape 48:19

ago, years, decades. I mean, okay.

Scott Friedman 48:23

And I was like, How old are you is like I'm 40 years ago. Okay, cool. And how long have you been like this for? It's like, ah, since you know, 25? Okay, great. It has been 23 years that you have been doing all this crap to your body, right? Your way doesn't work your way. Got You Here. How will you give me more than three weeks to show you my way? Right? Like it takes more than three weeks to undo 23 years of crap. Alright. And so that's the idea. This is takes a takes a long time you don't go into a company and expect to be CEO in the first three years. Like that's this. This is not how it works like things take time. I'm not sure why we don't have the patience for it. Maybe it's social media, maybe it's just instant gratification that we need now. But I think it's being able to if you can delay gratification of what you're looking to do. For as long as you possibly can, you will see more and better results than you ever thought possible. Period. End of story. There's no nuance to if you can delay gratification. Yeah,

Philip Pape 49:19

no nuance, and I think you alluded to a few times, having support, whether it's a coach or a community or something like that, who you can, even if it's just event and say I'm frustrated, I'm not making progress, and they can be like, school, be patient. We're here for you. We've all been through this. It does take time and Okay, cool. I trust you. And I'll keep going. So like you said, you know, kind of doing it on your own is a little harder only because you have to just be committed and do the experiment and get the data and then see what comes out the other side. Maybe it didn't work, maybe it will. Either way. It's gonna take time to change your body. Cool. Why don't we go to the next thing which is what is the next topic? Okay. Speaking of being impatient, one of the biggest mistakes of course with weight loss is trying to do it too quickly. All right. And part of that is marketing. Part of that is, you know, the restrictive diets, in my opinion, can induce very fast weight loss. The challenge there is that we're trying to lose fat, not weight, going back to the very first point I made. And there's a limit at which your body can shed the energy from the fat cells to turn it into ATP and all that, versus go and consume your muscle mass, right. And we don't want to have that muscle mass deteriorate and waste away. And I like to use these like visceral terms, because I want people to know how bad for your health it is that we lose muscle because it's already happening to you. If you're sedentary, then you exacerbate it by by dieting, by dieting aggressively by by aggressive, I mean, like more than 1% of your body weight a week. If you went on keto, and you did it like all in, and then you lose, you know, 40 pounds in a month, that's probably too aggressive, right? Because that's well beyond the 1% a week. And if you did like a DEXA scan, or you did caliper measurements, you would see you lost some muscle mass. Some of it'll come back, like as soon as you gain weight, but some of it's just gone until you strength train and build it back. So if you're having trouble losing weight, it could be because you're you're going too aggressively with the rate of loss in the past with your yo yo dieting, and your body is adapting very quickly. The hunger ramps up, you binge back and you stop dieting. I'm kind of rambling, Scott, but you can you can bring me back.

Scott Friedman 51:26

I thought it was very clear. I mean, okay, okay, at the end of the day, basically, what you're saying is, your body's going to resist the change, your body's designed to stay in homeostasis, which is basically a status quo, I don't want to change survival. And every time you're trying to lose weight, your body gets signals, okay, hold on a second, we're losing energy here, because it's all about energy that doesn't know that you had a salad you're trying to lose, it doesn't care, it's like, I need this amount of calories to live. By meaning less than this, we need to adapt our physiological functions to this new caloric energy expenditure that we have. So it will lower your metabolism. And if you go too quickly, your body is just going to push way back, it feels like it's dying, and it doesn't know what you're trying to do. And you can't tell it what you're trying to do. It's just, it's just not going to work. And you'll have a lot of bounce back, you know, you're not going to get into like, you know, having to reverse diet and all that kind of stuff, when you go too low for too long. But the idea is your body's going to resist you. So I think he said actually very well, I wasn't I mean, I followed it. So I don't know. Yeah,

Philip Pape 52:20

you know, what I got held up is in my notes, I was trying to separate the ideas of going too aggressively in your past dieting history with yo yo diets, to where you've lost muscle, and it just makes it harder and harder to lose weight versus what you then alluded to, which is metabolic adaptation, you go too quickly, your calories drop severely, and therefore you hit a plateau. And then you're you have trouble losing weight from that point on, which are all valid concepts. I just had a conversation with Jordan lips, you know, Jordan lips, he's, he's a coach, what Jordan loves fitness anyway, he loves to talk about metabolic adaptation. And we had a discussion about how it just exists, like you can't avoid metabolic adaptation. But you can definitely exacerbate it with your lifestyle choices. Right? I mean, we want to Yeah, yeah. And, yeah, so So you can't it's not like you can game it by, you know, reverse dieting and recovery, dieting, all of a sudden, now you burn more calories than you would otherwise, for the same weight and deficit, you're still going to adapt to that same exact level for you. And so the question is, are you doing it at the right rate, that's reasonable. And also practical, like you don't want to be going so aggressive, that it's just, you're hungry all the time, and you're miserable, you have no energy and your hormones are tanked. You can't sleep and you can't train, right? We want to be in that sweet spot where you can go good 1216 weeks, whatever it takes, or even if you need a diet break, and then you continue to actually make that progress. Would you

Scott Friedman 53:41

mentioned earlier, and I want to kind of give a an example to the point. So basically, you said that you're losing muscle when you're not working out, right, you'd be kind of made that point, right. As you get older, it is starting to fade. So basically, you need to maintain your muscle over time. So to me that sounds like is not working out is deflation for your muscle, as inflation is for our money. It's not usually too noticeable, excluding the last three years, but it's usually like 3% a year, similar concept of muscle over the course of the years. If you don't do anything, and you just kind of stay where you're at, you're going to lose muscle might take you a while to figure it out, but you're gonna lose a lot. And then by the time you're 67 years old, like it's like, holy crap, I got you know, I got nothing left. And then it's very hard to build it back up. And so doing it now is actually a very, like, important thing. I just want to kind of make that kind of mental imager people. Yeah,

Philip Pape 54:32

okay. Yeah, let me let me add to that because we lose like 1% of our muscle mass a year from like the age of 30. I mean, it's insane. And I talked to people like you know, guys want to build all this muscle. You know, even if you're not enhanced, you're not on drugs. We want to build all this muscle. And I usually tell people like the most muscle you can build in a lifetime is around 40 pounds for most average males. That's a lot of muscle. But still, we think oh, that's it. However, I want you to to add that muscle to the muscle you're not losing. When you compared to somebody else. So now think of the math, those people are going negative, they're going below zero, right? They're just losing muscle. And now they're 70. You know, let's say 60 years old. And now you have like 60 pounds more muscle than them because of what they've lost versus what you've gained. And I want people to think about how profound that is. That's a great point.

Scott Friedman 55:20

Great point, Don.

Philip Pape 55:22

All right, what do we got next? Man,

Scott Friedman 55:24

I definitely stole this from Alex or Mozi, when he was talking about this, he wasn't talking about fitness, per se. But I love the concept of just look, you're when you go into this, most people don't think this is easy. Most people know that the fitness journey, getting healthy, it's going to be hard. And then they get surprised when they're frustrated. Days go wrong, they're annoyed, they're sad, they're hormonal, whatever it might be, they're just, that's what they want to give up. Take a step back and realize, you knew this is gonna be hard. This is what hard feels like. This is it when you have your hunger pains, when you want to have that slice of cake when your friends are pushing you to do something, and you can't do it because you have this goal. That's what hard feels like. And so next time you're having those struggles, understand that you signed up for this, and you knew this was not going to be a cakewalk. I mean, that would be a cakewalk, then probably gonna change the perspective there. But we knew this wasn't gonna be easy. So going into it, say, hey, look, like if you're feeling like this is bad, or this is hair, well, this, this is hard to do. Great. That's what it feels like. And it's also a sign that you're on the right path. It's also a sign that you're doing the right things. Because if it was easy, then you're probably not doing enough. For example, just from a weightlifting example, if you're doing 10 reps on any exercise, and you get done, I got easy, done great. You probably didn't do it, right. Because if your goal is 10 reps, that 10th rep should be very, very difficult to complete. And the the same concept applies to losing weight or going in fight as we keep building that habit, whatever it might be, there's a specific point of impact that you're going for. And if you don't feel that intensity, that feel that discouragement almost so that that annoyed to get off. I'm looking in the mirror, it's been three weeks, I have not done any inches yet. Great. That's what heart feels like, then you're on the right path, it's just a matter of time, if you're doing the right things until you're gonna see results.

Philip Pape 57:20

Do you think there's like a hardness curve. So for example, there's, there's a huge amount of friction at the beginning. Once you start getting some sort of progress, even though it's hard, you develop some resilience, where the hard is, I guess you can sit with it better, or you can receive it better, or the fact that it's hard becomes a thing you look forward to like what are your thoughts on all of those concepts? Oh,

Scott Friedman 57:43

gosh, there's two, I have two thoughts on it. Because I don't think I have an answer. Because I think it's both I think that one as you get better. I'm not sure it gets easier. But like with the knowledge and experience and even strength that you've gained through it, that you're just more confident. And that confidence of it is just like, Okay, I know it's gonna be hard, no big deal. It's not like for me, like, for example, I'm trying to lift 100 pound dumbbells at any easier than then when it was getting to 70 pound dumbbells, it's still just as hard. My confidence is what's changed? I think it's more of a confidence question than a hardness question. I don't think it ever necessarily gets easier. I think your perspective of what you're doing gets easier, because you have now the experience, you have the social proof that you can do it. And I think that leads to sticking with the program longer and getting those results even though quote unquote, it could be easier Horrocks, I would argue that it's harder to live 350 pounds on bench than 225 in almost every category, regardless of where you're at, just because it's physically heavier, just because you could do to 25. Now whatever, even though you're stronger, I still think it's just as hard to get to that point, if not harder, but I've just had more confidence. I know that's a very niche example is that everyone's doing that. But like, I don't think losing weight gets easier. Inherently I think that you just become better at it. That's my general general take on it.

Philip Pape 59:02

No, that's a great way to put it. And one nuance on that is she mentioned lifting weights, right like curls, we probably all as guys don't mind going and doing curls, right? But you take something like a Bulgarian split squat, which is like on the top five hated exercises or something Oh, hard. And it's like, what is it about those things? And, you know, do Is there any way to make them comparably? Hard to the things that are less hard? Yeah, but what I mean is like, if you really love bench pressing, but you really disliked this other thing. Can we reframe it in a way where we can almost like this as much as benchpress in the context of knowing it's hard, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I

Scott Friedman 59:39

don't know. I don't think I've ever done that. I mean, I think I just do it, and I hate it. And I know I'm gonna hate it and I push it Yeah. And I say I hate it. I just I think maybe that gives me the strength to get past it because I like Benji and I hate Bulgarian split squats. I mean, in the example so is there a way to reframe it? Yes, I 100% think there is a way to reframe it. I'm not sure I have the best answer to do so someone probably smarter and more experienced than me probably has something some sort of Guru reframing method of, but I think also the person's personality takes into effect. I mean, if you talk to a brad Ritter, who is the School of Grandmaster if you know him, but he did this amazing channel, he's all about challenging, almost like a David Goggins kind of deal. They have that mentality of that they love to torture the body. I don't necessarily have that. I'm not sure I can reframe or I don't think they reframe it. I think they just do

Philip Pape 1:00:29

it. They just do it. I don't think that's necessarily healthy for most. I

Scott Friedman 1:00:33

don't I'm not sure it's healthy either. So I think there's ways to reframe, I hesitate to give any specifics on how to do that. But I bet you usually have that personality, you could i My personality is like I had to do this, I'll see results, I'm gonna feel good afterwards, I just kind of have to talk myself up. But it's about the discipline of just doing it in my mind. So

Philip Pape 1:00:51

maybe the principle is for those listening, like, think about a way that you could make it easier for yourself from a reframing perspective, you know what, it's something individual to you. Like, for me, it might be okay, I'm surrounding it with all these other movements that I do love. I'm going to do this one thing, because I know it's going to smash my quads. And that's what I'm working on right now. And then I'm going to measure my my thighs every week, and it's going to get bigger, you know, like somehow to make it a little bit more palatable. But I could be doing this other movement. That's more fun. Okay, so speaking of things that are hard, it's the hunger during fat loss, right? When we talk about having trouble losing weight, I think you talked about it already hunger exists, it's going to happen, it's a sign that your fat cells are releasing energy, I actually just did an episode all about the science behind it very nerdy, very mechanical about the mechanisms in the body of how like fatty acids get turned to ATP. The cool thing about it, Scott is I didn't, I didn't know that 84% of the energy release is carbon dioxide. Like, yes. Did you lose weight? You probably didn't do that. And 16% is water. So I had forgotten that. Because people are always like, Well, where does it actually go? Does it come out in your you know, your urine? Or let? Anyway, hunger happens? Right? So the question is, Can we can we do anything about it? A lot of it is perception, right? Because a lot of hunger is emotional, or habitual, or psychological in some way. You know, like, if you go from a building phase to a fat loss phase, you're eating six times, now you eat three, those other three gaps in the day, your brain is telling you Where's my food? Right. And that's not real hunger necessarily. There's also the way you set up your diet. I'm a huge fan of answering three questions when you set up your diet one, does it fill me up? To do I enjoy it? And three, can I guilt free? Like those are pretty solid questions to ask yourself, that if you violate them, there could be improvements. So when it comes to hunger, you know, things like fiber and protein are the classics. Of if you have the protein in there, which should be fairly high during fat loss, probably around half of your calories, depending on what you know, calorie level you're at. If you have fiber, which can be hard to get if you're not paying attention to it, right. And if you have enough nutrient dense filling foods, you're gonna do everything you can to mitigate hunger. I do like other hacks, like, you know, hydration or vegetable soups. I like eating harder foods you have to digest like, don't throw the fruit in a smoothie in fat loss, like eat the fruit. Eat the fruit, it'll take time you chew it, the saliva, the what do you call hormones in your gut, and your brain will tell you that you're actually getting fuller than if you process the food in a blender. So that's just to get the discussion started. What else you want to add to that?

Scott Friedman 1:03:29

And I mean, that's actually a really I was gonna ask you that question cuz I don't actually know the answer. I'm like, Does eating like for example, I have a smoothie that's probably 400 calories deep. And I can have a I don't feel full from it. And but there's plenty of protein in it. Versus I can have, let's just say ground turkey with with quinoa and veggies, right, whatever I have, which is 350 calories or something like that. And I will be significantly more full from that all things close to equal maybe more protein over here, but like, less calories, maybe because I'm chewing it. Or it's maybe it's a different source of protein. That could be it but I guess Yeah. Is there something to chewing your food versus putting in a smoothie for hunger? I guess hunger retention or not hunger retention?

Philip Pape 1:04:10

Yeah, I think I think it's multiple factors. I think there's there's hormones that get secreted. But there's also the time factor, like you're taking time to eat it. And so it's getting into your stomach and sitting there and starting to trigger those hormones leptin and ghrelin, but even like some magnetite, everybody knows that from the anti obesity drugs. That's like a, I believe that's like a stomach centered hormone, just like serotonin is in the gut, you know, and there's a link between gut health and like, how you feel good and sleep and everything. Between all of those, it's pretty fascinating. But the more you can eat whole foods, take time eating your foods to them, you know, it's gonna help a little bit with hunger. Now, these are hacks, I always like to say they're hacks because at the end of the day, you're in a deficit, and you're going to be hungry to some extent. So it's like, identifying and documenting how that's occurring because something simple like by tightening the feeding window or shifting carbs or shifting, you know, your workout or whatever could be just the ticket to, you know, making the hunger just a little bit less. And the whole point of making it less is just so that you stick with it long enough to get to your goal. Conversely, if hunger is just too much, and you've done everything, you're probably in too big of a deficit is willpower is gonna get you to the end, which is hard for most people like bodybuilders do that. But most of us are not bodybuilders. So, yeah, what do you think?

Scott Friedman 1:05:28

I think I like you said, two things that I specifically do. So people are gonna call me crazy. But I so I do two things. Number one to help hunger measure. So I intermittent fast, I go from right around 14 to 16 hours, I'm trying to gain weight, I'll probably shoot down to 14 to 12 hours, I'm trying to lose weight or maintain weight, I'm at the 15 to 16 Mark, usually, sometimes I go more, but that's the average. So I have eating windows, it helps me I stopped eating at, let's just say 730 Every single night now before is fine, whatever, you know, 30 minutes before, but what it does, it blocks it for me. I don't care how hungry I am. I know I ate for the day, I'm done eating. I don't start again until roughly 10 o'clock the next day or so. Give or take or whatever the the actual math is on that. But what I do is I actually work out at the end of my fast. So from like, 730 to 930. I'm at the gym, not for the full two hours. But do I do sauna. So I'm gonna calm down to our work. I'm not saying two hours, gotta do saunas. And I work out during that. So I workout fasted, and then I get home, I'm feeling great. And then I break the fast with a nice high protein slash carb meal to kind of help with the hunger that I'm having. And then I kind of get the rest of the day. But I think having those windows of eating should not even from any sort of metabolic physiological thing, just from a routine structure standpoint, is so valuable, because it's a rule. And there's it's black and white, don't eat after this time. Don't eat before this time. Again, you're on vacation or not. But regularly speaking, it really helps maintain it, your body adapts to it. But again, after two weeks, if you're like dying from it, of course, we got to switch things up. But overall, if you can kind of find that sweet spot, I think is very helpful when it comes to hunger management.

Philip Pape 1:07:11

That's huge. The principle of it, right? Like people don't have to fast per se, just be routine about it and have a fixed feeding window. And you might get you might go so far. So like schedule it in it first. It's just like tracking, it's like tracking your food might sound a little neurotic. But if you've been all over the place, like just putting on your calendar like this is when I eat you know and get do that for a week or two. And then you're in a routine and there you go. Your body actually your metabolic rate. This is a valid point you brought up, physiologically your metabolic rate will actually down regulate just a bit if you're not in a routine, because of that, like unpredictability of the food supply to your body. So it's like, Oh, you gotta conserve calories. Yeah, yeah, it's so many things can impact your metabolism. And that's when we talk about dieting and weight loss and fat loss. Like a lot of it is about food. But a lot of it is about your lifestyle choices to make eating food easier and able to eat more of it as you're losing that weight. So yeah, other than that, I mean for hunger, I would say swapping foods out, the more you get into a fat loss phase where calories are tight, where you hardly notice a difference, you know, like refined versus white carbs or what did I have in here? My notes? Oh, these were all Ultra processed foods that yeah, okay, this was like soda and candy. You could have diet soda. Like I'm not against diet soda. I have no problem. You aspartame is not going to kill you. That's That's my understanding of the evidence. Just it's better than regular soda or you know, in terms of like trying to manage your calories and sugar and take a whatnot. Alcohol is another one. You know again, if you don't want to cut it out completely be smart about it. Drink light beer, you know, drink, drink fewer times a week, do non alcoholic, which is not alcohol, but it tastes like it. So yeah, that's it. We can go on about hunger, we go to the next topic.

Scott Friedman 1:08:54

This one will be quick. The next one will be quick. All right, basically not moving enough. Pretty. I mean, I think this one's pretty simple, is just move that there was a study done that was like basically, if you walk for a brisk walk for 20 minutes a day, it will decrease your chances for any kind of long term illness or disease by like upwards of 30% I mean, it was crazy amount walk, you burn more calories and you walk, you're gonna feel better when you walk, you're gonna lose more weight when you walk, you're gonna be using your body moving your body, there's just there's so much benefits to moving. Even if it's not, again, I recommending resistance training, but even if it's not that just moving itself is so valuable on a regular basis, and it's gonna help your mood, which, for example, have you ever tried to make a decision while you're sitting on the couch? Don't I always tell people, especially if that decision is not aligned with their goals? So you're like, Oh, I'm so hungry. I'm gonna go I have this popcorn right here before you eat it. Stand up, walk around for 10 seconds and then ask yourself the same question. I would argue that your your answer is going to change change a little bit. Because when you're sick, when you're not moving, everything, just kind of just, it's like stagnant air just kind of sits there, when you're moving, things are working, you're at more oxygen into your head. Like there's a lot of things that have happened in that. And so I think moving is so significant from a multi faceted approach that just got to move, just try and move for 20 minutes every single day, do something as you were starting from nothing, that is the best piece of advice, because just you got to get going, and that it's just shown to help you in so many different areas, not just weight loss, but in every area.

Philip Pape 1:10:28

Yeah, it's not much more to add to add to that, I mean, walking helps with your mental health, like you said, it helps with your, you know, just getting calories to your brain, your brain consumes 20% of the energy of your body, and it's very bio energetic. A lot of people that I know are lifters, and they just lift but then they won't move. And they're actually independent things like lifting weights for acute stress, you know, acutely stressed sessions, it and then not moving at all, there's still a lot of health consequences to that you've got to move. So agree there's not much more to add to that, we go into training. Alright, so training, one of my my my fun topics here is, of course, when you're in a fat loss phase, because again, we're talking about losing weight. And we don't want to lose weight, we want to lose fat, like we want to lose body mass, but we want that body mass to be fat. And the only way that's going to happen is we have sufficient muscle building stimulus, you have to tell your body that you're at least attempting to build muscle in the attempt to at least preserve the muscle maintain the muscle, the cool thing is that it takes a lot less volume, like training volume to maintain muscle than it does to build muscle. So when you go into fat loss phase, the wrong approach is to say I need to burn fat and burn calories, therefore, I'm going to do more like I'm going to do more reps, and I'm going to do more volume, it's actually the opposite. Like you could do almost less as long as you keep the load pretty intense train close to failure, like Scott mentioned earlier, like, gotta feel like it's hard. And it might even feel harder because you're in fat loss. And that's a very efficient way to work out, like three or four days a week, whatever your program says, you might even cut the number of movements and just go heavy. And then now you have all this recovery time to take advantage of the fewer resources you have. But you're still going to hold on to that muscle, which is what we're trying to do.

Scott Friedman 1:12:13

Actually, I'm curious to hear the answer on this one. So let's say at a normal muscle building phase, and you're trying to build specifically muscle, we believe believe that the best ratio of sets per week, or whatever the intensity is about 10 to 20, depending on the person and their training level. If you're in a fat loss phase, what would you say the sets per week for a muscle would be in order to at least be you know, it was that range.

Philip Pape 1:12:39

I mean, if you go by the studies on volume for maintaining muscle, it could be as low as like a quarter to half of your volume. But But I wouldn't just I wouldn't cut it by that much like in practice. Yeah, that's more of like if you've if you've been training a long time, and now you want to do other pursuits, and you don't want to spend so much time in the gym kind of thing. But when you're training, I would just say, Do what you're already doing and gauge the biofeedback you know, in those first few weeks how you feel, but the most Yeah, but the most important thing, honestly, is going to be the stimulus to fatigue, but also the the results with your lifts. Meaning if your lifts are pretty much maintaining more or less, you're probably fine. Right? You're gonna lose strength, but you're probably not gonna lose much muscle if you're doing it that way. And I

Scott Friedman 1:13:24

think a point from a practical point, and when you're losing weights, if you're losing weight, and you can maintain, so let's say you do 100 pounds on whatever the lift is, and you keep doing 100 pounds at 10 reps or whatever the rep range is right? That's actually you're actually gaining muscle because you're losing weight. So if you let's say you weighed 100 pounds, and you're lifting 100 pounds, now you weigh 99 pounds, and you're lifting 100 pounds, that ratio is it's slightly different. That means you're stronger than you were before. Now you're 9897 96. Now eventually what's going to happen is at a certain point, because it happens all of us, unless you're a bodybuilder, are really, really good at this, like the lift is gonna go down. So you could expect the lift to decrease. But you should not do that on purpose. It's just just because you're not strong enough anymore. Because you are going to lose some muscle when you're losing weight. The idea is to lose as little as humanly possible. And that's how you're going to see it. So if you're losing weight and your lifts are staying relatively the same, that's great. You should not I repeat this 100 times everyone has this question. If you are in fat loss phase, do not deliberately decrease the weight that you are training at. You want to stay there until you cannot stay there. So um, for some reason, there's this, I guess, myth out there that, oh, I'm in a fat loss phase, I need to decrease the weight that I'm lifting, which makes no sense to me. No, like nothing changes other than your it's gonna be harder to maintain that in my perspective.

Philip Pape 1:14:43

Yeah. And you hit on you know, there's some counterintuitive things that people just aren't familiar with, like the fact that your relative strength could go up as you're losing weight. I mean, my chin ups and pull ups start to fly when I'm starting to lose weight initially, right? Because I'm just losing weight on my body. Yeah, but what was the other thing I was gonna say about that? It was counterintuitive man and slipped my mind these conversations, it's like I have three things in the buffer and I maybe get to one or two, you know what I'm saying? Oh, yes, I know what it was is recovery and volume. So, again, counter intuitively, you may find it more beneficial, especially if you're older and have like recovery, more limited recovery to work more days a week, but shorter sessions during fat loss, like I've seen that be very successful for people to work. Like if you're normally doing three or four, now you go to five or six, but they're like half hour sessions with three movements. And now you're spreading out that fatigue, and never over stressing yourself from like an energy perspective with the fewer calories coming in. Not for everybody, though, you know, like, especially women can handle more recovery than men. But I've seen this be successful with men too. So just one of those cool little things. I like it.

Scott Friedman 1:15:48

I mentioned point of impact earlier, but basically just make sure you're training whatever rep range, you're doing that last rep. It should be. I thought a huge train of failure guy, I think training near failure is more effective, at least for the average person. I'm not talking about the advanced lifters. But yeah, so like whatever you're doing, if you're doing 10 reps, and you're in the weight loss phase, and you can do more, you probably should do more. And that's probably the wrong weight or the wrong rep ranges that be in Yeah,

Philip Pape 1:16:14

and one last thing I mean, no, I agree about the the RTR reps and reserve like isolation movements, go for it, you know, go to failure, cheater reps, drop sets, whatever intensity stuff you want to do. But like the big list, you know, yeah, one to two, maybe even three from failure depending on what you're doing. One thing we didn't cover, I don't know, if we would have done it on the movement section is just cardio in general cardio can be a huge variable when it comes to fat loss in terms of a negative in my opinion, like doing too much cardio, during fat loss can raise the stress on your body and also make it harder to lose weight. So I know it didn't seem like we had that in the list. Very important, ladies, especially who love to do the spin class, the boot camps, the F 45. The all this stuff. Fat Loss is the last point. Fat Loss is the last phase where you want to actually think exercise equals calorie burn. No, don't do that. Please don't think exercise equals calorie burn, walking and movement and being active. Yeah, that can contribute to that. But if you are running a lot, and now you're affecting your joints, and you're tearing up muscles a bit more, and you're impeding recovery, now your body says well, I need to recover from that. So I'm not gonna have as much to recover from lifting, for example, and I'm not going to have enough to keep your metabolic rate where it needs to be. So now all of a sudden, you start burning fewer and fewer calories. That's not to say you can't have some like medium intensity cardio in there for cardiovascular health and a little bit of calorie burn. But it's got to be, you know, moderated.

Scott Friedman 1:17:38

Yeah, the way I think about it is just like don't do any more than you normally would do. Because you're trying to burn fat. If you're on the treadmill for 30 minutes, that's your that's, that's your fun thing to do. Or you play basketball or pickleball, which is the new thing, you know, do it go do it. Understand, though, first and foremost, it's going to put you in a larger deficit. And that's where you get into trouble with these. And that's really what I think the issue is getting these large deficits, where your body will react negatively, either push, you will fight you really hard or will lower the amount of calories gonna burn in a day. And therefore you get into this cycle of, okay, whoa, I'm burning 500 calories on the treadmill. And I'm only netting 1200 calories a day eating like total eating wise, your body is going to slowly shut down, and then you think, Oh, I gotta eat less, or, or burn more. And then you're only putting in 1000, and then 800. And then you're not losing any more weight. And you get into this kind of cycle. And it's not good for your body. So you know, you want to stick to the I think is a five to 10% deficit, from your caloric maintenance part, which you can find online, whatever it was your coach, whatever it is, and then from there, just kind of try and maintain that. So whatever you do for that, that's what you should do and eat back the calories. So I actually in a fat loss phase, I actually use cardio to eat more so that I can like so. So that I have that I do I do net, I didn't net deficit. So if I have to eat, say just say 1800 calories, what I have to eat to lose a pound a week, I will divide 300 calories on the treadmill, I know I can eat 300 more calories that day to 10. Net, my 1800. So I had to do a dual shifter that I use both kind of ranges to kind of get me there to give me trouble if you don't track it properly. But I do find that it's valuable for some people.

Philip Pape 1:19:15

That's interesting. That's interesting, because I wouldn't use it on a daily day to day basis necessarily like that. But I could see a weekly incorporate Yeah, weekly where like Now you've seen how your expenditure if it's actually gone up and you can increase your calories and then you kind of take advantage but you know, if you're in tune with this stuff, that's the point. If you're in tune, you're watching your numbers and your weights going where you want it to go then great. You're doing everything you want to do. So let's let's go to the last thing because they're all kind of related to stress on the body overall, causing a change in metabolic rate. What's What's the issue here was sleeping stress. Well,

Scott Friedman 1:19:49

one of the biggest things is that you can be doing everything right. And if you're not sleeping enough, you're your again your body. There's a lot of intangible things in your body. We don't See when they're invisible to us that are currently operating on every single day. And a lot of things will happen if you don't sleep well. So I mean, if you don't sleep enough, right increases irritability will increase hunger, you might store more fat because of it, it reduces expenditure, there's so many things that are going to happen if you're not sleeping properly. So the idea is, if you actually also I think if you do too much high intensity cardio, I believe there's a stress threshold or stress threshold that we have, where if you too much stress in the body, and one day, your bed very difficult to sleep as well. There's another thing, there's if you're just hammering it, like you might find that you're having trouble sleeping, which then in turn, will make it harder to lose weight, because other aspects of not having enough sleep are negative. So a lot of things there when it comes to not sleeping enough. So having that kind of self awareness, when you're doing this is pretty important. Because if you're not sleeping well, and you know, you're not sleeping, well, trying to identify, Okay, what am I doing that's causing this lack of sleep? is important? Is it coming from to doing too much? Or is it coming from more of an habitual routine basis? And what I mean by that is, what are you doing before you're going to sleep? Are you you know, watching TV? Are you eating? Are you drinking? What's the activity before bed? What are you doing? And then if you can identify what's happening? Can we reduce or take away something to see it that helps you sleep? So for example, I got the aura ring, not a paid advertisement. So do it at your own. Due to your risk.

Philip Pape 1:21:36

All nutrition coaches have one right?

Scott Friedman 1:21:38

I love I love it. It's interesting. I think I give it like a B on the scale of like 85 out of 100. I think that's where I would scale it right now from the information, but I use it to track my sleep and sudden I'd say hey, man, your resting heart rate was super high last night, like try doing X, Y and Z instead. So what are some things that get my heart rate going? Number one, if I eat too late, which some again, on the weekend or something, if I don't follow my structured routine, that will happen. So if you I believe you might have better knowledge on this than I will I tell people try to eat roughly an hour and a half, two hours before you go to sleep. Right? Like if you're eating 30 minutes for bed, that could cause issues like that will might cause you to be up longer and not get good sleep. Are you drinking before bed that might call again could cause you to wake up more times than you wanted to wake it up once it's probably fine during the night. I don't think that's an issue at all, but multiple times that could cause a disruption and get you where sleep. Are you watching TV. And if you're watching TV, that stimulation, just the stimulation itself. So phone, TV, any sort of stimulation, any argument you have whatever, like your brains up and going. The second thing what that is blue light, how much blue light are you pushing your eyeballs I have, I'm trying to look around, I got blue light glasses over here. So if I'm watching TV later on the computer, like I put these on, and it tastes with a blue light. So at least I get rid of that because I know blue light in me. That's what causes me to have trouble sleeping. So there's a lot of things that you might be doing that you don't realize that are inhibiting your ability to get good sleep, which then silently secretly, Phantom li inhibits your ability to lose weight or lose fat in the long run. And you wouldn't know whatever correlate watching an hour of TV, a high intensity drama tv show that gets your heart rate going to bad sleep to then not losing fat, which it's kind of a loose correlation, but it is there. And so making sure that you can identify any of those stressors can be very important if you're struggling with it.

Philip Pape 1:23:28

Yeah, I think you've covered most most of the stuff like I mean, I know people have heard the Sleep Sleep hacks a million times on all sorts of podcasts, right? But they're always subtle things that might work for you. And there he goes, putting on the glasses. I have the amber ones that I wear at night and sometimes I just fall asleep on the couch wearing those things they work. So what Scott mentioned right, like, is this sleep poor sleep the route the the symptom of another cause? Or is it the sleep routine itself, he brought up a bunch of things I would just say like also if you can find a way to let your mind unwind at some point, and it might not even be right before bed it might be earlier in the day, we're just taking 20 minutes to yourself to literally not get stimulated by anything in the world because everything is stimulating us to get your thoughts out and process those that can actually have a lot like hours later when you go to sleep. That's just a little hack a lot of people don't think about because we're just on and on and on all day. Cool, man. So sleep and stress very important as well to losing weight. We're going on what an hour and a half. So this has been pretty epic and and it's been fun and we covered I mean a vast majority of topics there's probably even more we could have covered. So you know people can check out our shows. I had a blast covering all this. I hope people listening will take one thing you know you don't have to do all 20 Just take like one thing that resonated with you and take that baby step and action forward. And you know do the hard thing like we said it's gonna be a little bit hard but that's that's where the beauty comes from the process. Anything you want to say before we sign off?

Scott Friedman 1:24:56

No, I mean, we covered a vast array topics. It's Obviously, No, you listen to it, you'll get like 20% of what you listen to the first time. So listen to it again and get another 20% and see and kind of get more of it. I think that remember,

Philip Pape 1:25:07

listen to it on both podcasts. Well, yeah, the

Scott Friedman 1:25:10

most important thing you can do is to subscribe to both podcasts, because you're gonna keep hearing this information over and over again. So this is great. Listen to this awesome. Share this with everyone you know, listen to Wits, & Weights, listen to the power of progress. Wherever you're at subscribe, there's YouTube, there's Apple podcasts, or Spotify. Because the more you listen to it, the more you're gonna gain the knowledge, gain the experience, gain the confidence, and you're gonna start seeing results long term. And it's literally completely free to do all of that. So that's the most important thing you can do today is subscribe to both shows, because you'll get the most information and that's the best ROI of today's episode.

Philip Pape 1:25:46

There you go. I don't think I can add to that. I mean, I was gonna say Go Go follow our progress. Go follow Wits, & Weights, wherever you're listening to this in your favorite app, give us a follow, give us a follow. that'll really help us a lot. Don't just download it, give it a follow, share. And we'll be there in your ears for you know, there's our beautiful resonant voices to carry along your fitness journey for months and years to come. Right. I

Scott Friedman 1:26:06

think you have the nice voice I have that like nasally annoying voice. They LISTEN TO ME ON 3x speed to get her over with

Philip Pape 1:26:12

Oh, don't get me started listening quickly. That's another way you can de stress is actually don't listen to. It's funny because my voice is kind of torn up now. So alright, so I just want to thank everybody for listening. I want to thank you for joining me and Scott on this very cool, co hosted co created experience. Todays was valuable, I hope and we covered a lot and I hope you you know, take that step, take that step, whatever it is reach out to us as well. All that information is in the show notes if you need any help and we'll be here to help you. And we'll talk to you next time on Wits. & Weights and power progress. All right, take it easy and stay strong. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights, please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong

Philip Pape 2/23/24 Philip Pape 2/23/24

Ep 149: 4 Surprising Ways to Lose That Midlife Belly Fat with Megan Dahlman

Are you grappling with persistent belly fat? Are the hormonal shifts typically experienced by women over 40 posing challenges to your fitness journey? Philip speaks with fitness expert Megan Dahlman, the sought-after trainer for women over 40 who want to feel their physical best for years to come. We discuss the fun yet frustrating topic of belly fat in women over 40, including the physiological and hormonal changes that affect belly fat and common myths about it, plus 4 surprising, evidence-based strategies for fat loss.

Are you grappling with persistent belly fat? Are the hormonal shifts typically experienced by women over 40 posing challenges to your fitness journey?

Today, Philip (@witsandweights) speaks with fitness expert Megan Dahlman, the sought-after trainer for women over 40 who want to feel their physical best for years to come.

We discuss the fun yet frustrating topic of belly fat in women over 40, including the physiological and hormonal changes that affect belly fat and common myths about it, plus 4 surprising, evidence-based strategies for fat loss.

With a degree in Exercise Science and as a Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist (CSCS), Megan has an uncanny ability to take complicated aspects of your body and make them simple, doable, and actually sustainable.

Through her top 1% podcast, Self Care Simplified, and online training programs and courses, Megan genuinely cares about every woman she interacts with and coaches. Her mission is to empower every woman to feel strong, pain-free, and body-confident, regardless of age.

Get an EXCLUSIVE bonus interview with Megan on the 6 BEST core exercises for women of all stages of life & 3 exercises to avoid if you have a weak core

Today, you’ll learn all about:
2:34 Her philosophy on building muscle
6:31 The gap between the general population and athletes
8:41 Why belly fat is talked about so much
14:32 Hormonal changes during peri and postmenopause on belly fat
17:57 Science behind belly fat accumulation in women over 40
19:55 Belly fat myths
23:48 Sleep and its relation to cortisol and inflammation
26:09 Stress management and the importance of saying "no"
30:20 Nutrition for reducing belly fat
35:02 Tracking and how to eat
39:54 Strength training versus cardio for muscle building
43:31 One question Megan wished Philip had asked her
47:53 Learn more about Megan and her work

Episode resources:

Self Care Simplified podcast
@megandahlman on IG
5-day Core Tune Up: FREE program that safely strengthens your tired, flabby core muscles and restores proper function to your entire midsection!

Episode summary:

When it comes to health and fitness for women over 40, the game changes significantly. The battle against belly fat becomes more complex, and a deeper understanding of one's body is required to navigate through the physiological and hormonal shifts that occur during this stage in life. Megan Dahlman, with her 17 years of experience in fitness training, offers a treasure trove of insights into this transformative period.

Women in midlife face unique challenges that can derail their fitness and health goals if not properly addressed. As estrogen levels fluctuate and eventually decline during perimenopause and menopause, women experience changes in muscle mass, appetite, and fat distribution. These hormonal shifts can significantly affect one's ability to maintain a healthy weight, particularly around the abdomen. Dahlman highlights the critical role medical support plays during this time, urging women to seek out professional guidance to ensure they are on the right track.

The podcast episode delves into the common misconceptions surrounding core workouts and their effectiveness in reducing belly fat. Contrary to popular belief, focusing solely on abdominal exercises does not directly result in a flatter stomach. Instead, Dahlman promotes a holistic approach to health, emphasizing the importance of sleep, stress management, and a well-rounded fitness regimen. She also touches on the detrimental effects of excessive calorie restriction and the overemphasis on cardio as a means of fat loss, advocating for a more balanced and sustainable approach to fitness.

One of the more enlightening discussions in the episode centers around nutrition, particularly the role of protein in a woman's diet during midlife. Dahlman encourages a gradual increase in protein intake to support muscle mass maintenance, offering practical tips for incorporating more protein into one's diet. She simplifies the nutritional landscape with the 'eat your pros' approach, advocating for a focus on protein and produce at every meal without the hassle of calorie counting.

As the conversation progresses, Dahlman shares her "rule of threes" philosophy, a concept that underscores the timeline for fitness results. This principle suggests that it takes three weeks to feel a difference in one's body, three months to visibly notice changes, and three years for new habits to become an integral part of one's identity. It's a reminder of the importance of consistency and patience in the journey towards long-term wellness.

The episode wraps up with an invitation to the listeners to connect with Megan Dahlman through her podcast "Self Care Simplified" and her Instagram, where she continues to share valuable advice and motivation for integrating wellness into daily life.

For women over 40, this podcast episode with Megan Dahlman on serves as a roadmap to mastering midlife fitness. It's a conversation filled with practical advice, evidence-based strategies, and a reassuring voice that empowers women to take control of their health and fitness with confidence and knowledge.

Have you followed the podcast?

Get notified of new episodes. Use your favorite podcast platform or one of the buttons below. Then hit “Subscribe” or “Follow” and you’re good to go!

Transcript

Megan Dahlman 00:00

Don't judge something in the first three weeks, please. Like just give it time to settle in and work for you. And then let's make sure that by three weeks you're starting to feel your body improve. And then around three months, we should be seeing some visible changes. It's probably not going to be this giant change. We're all about no quick fixes around here. But that's a really good benchmark to aim for.

Philip Pape 00:29

Megan Dahlman 02:25

thank you. What an introduction. Excited to be here.

Philip Pape 02:30

That's the thing we do here, Megan, you know, I've been following your work for a bit now. And I loved immediately what I was hearing. And what I was hearing was that you emphasize strength training, and building muscle and a lot of the evidence based stuff that we talked about. But it's also I'll say, nuanced and accessible at the same time, especially for women who are just getting started, you know, you, you kind of take them along for the journey of it's okay, don't stress, you know, one step at a time. Tell us about your personal philosophy, your mission to help women get strong, pain free and confident.

Megan Dahlman 03:02

Yeah, you know, I got my start as an athletic performance specialist. So training like high level athletes, and I always thought that that was so impressive, you know, what a cool thing to have on your resume to be like an Olympic trainer. And it was fun but but how it kind of evolved to who I work with now of primarily 40 plus year old women is I would train athletes, many of them would be young, that their parents would be in the wings watching and they'd be like, Wait a second. Can I work with you like that looks way more fun and effective. Then the Zumba class. I'm going to the My Jazzercise class, you know. And so it started evolving to training adults, kind of the general population of people who are like I really want to move and operate and work like an athlete. Because when it comes down to it, that is how our bodies were created and designed to move period. And so it's fun to bring things from this athletic world, into the average individual and show them how amazing their body can operate. When we focus on those things that help you optimize the way that your body moves, the way your body functions on a daily life on a daily basis. It's so exciting. And I think unfortunately, in the fitness industry, there's this giant chasm between trainers and people who are really fit and athletic. Who this is their life. They love it, they live it, they breathe it like they just know a lot about it. And unfortunately, the large majority of the population where fitness good nutrition, taking care of your body is a foreign concept and really hard to do. And so I keep seeing that gap getting wider between people who are deep into the research and real into it and I care about, I don't care what the study say I just, I want to be able to go through the day and not have my knees hurt. And so that's really my mission is to kind of fill in the gap and be I will, I will bring the evidence based work to you, I'll meet you where you are, I won't bog you down, I won't overwhelm you, I'll keep it as simple as possible. And in the long run, that's gonna make it doable and sustainable and get you excited to keep going. So that's really the philosophy behind and my mission behind everything I do. I think the

Philip Pape 05:36

way you explain all that was the most succinct, direct way that I've ever heard for what many of us are trying to do seriously. I mean, I've interviewed a lot of people on this show, but a few things that stood out to me first, having trained athletes, and then the general population saying, I want to be trained like that right there. That's great evidence that there is a gap and made me wonder, you know, why is that right? And maybe we could explore that a little more. But you also said it's the way we're intended to move. And the word athlete as an identity is very important to people. I found working with clients, men and women, but especially women, when we use that word, I'm like, you are an athlete like, No, I'm not. Yes, you are. And look how far we've come using the principles of an athlete of training and progression and performance and fueling yourself all these positive things that you want to build and not, you know, do the restriction and all the other things that the industry talks about. And then you said there's still a giant chasm, and it's getting bigger. So let's just explore that for a second. I know, we'll get into the topic, but why is it getting bigger? Why is the evidence based stuff not as accessible as it needs to be? Well, I think

Megan Dahlman 06:39

two things are happening right now. I think we have the people who are interested in health are starting to really dig deep. We're getting more and more studies that are coming out all the time. We're starting to get this whole like section of the population that's really interested in like biohacking methods and, you know, kind of those little final one to 2% tweaks. And that starts to be really noisy, especially in the social media space because it catches a lot of attention. And then at the same time, we have the opposite end of the spectrum where the general population America is getting unhealthier and unhealthier. And I think the obesity rates right now in America is staggering. I think we're pushing 50% not just being overweight, but literally obesity. And so these two things are happening. And it's just this, like people are getting the Healthy People are getting so dialed in healthy, like it's almost obsessive. And the unhealthy people are getting even unhealthier. And so there's such a big gap that nobody's like, when the unhealthy people are looking at what you need to do healthy to be healthier. That's what they're seeing. They're seeing the biohackers that are working on that final 1% tweak, like cold plunging is not going to solve my health issue.

Philip Pape 08:08

Red light therapy, right. And

Megan Dahlman 08:10

it's like, and so then they try those biohacking things. And it's like, Well, that didn't work. Because that was so extreme and such this giant leap from where their life looks like today. You know what I mean?

Philip Pape 08:23

Yeah, no, that's a great way to put it. I think of food in that context as well, where you're not even eating whole foods or enough protein, and you're worried about grass fed beef, wagyu, beef, whatever it's like, just just get there from where you are today. And it'll be a huge improvement a step change. Okay, so now one of the things that we're going to talk about today, which is belly fat, has has been in the space for a long time as one of those topics that I don't know, maybe it could be click Beatty, or associated with the, the the training programs related to you know, crunches and all sorts of crazy 1% solutions that you just talked about. Yeah, so we want to take a nuanced approach based on the evidence, but also that's accessible to everyone listening. Before we do, why is this even a topic?

Megan Dahlman 09:10

I think because it is so as statically annoying, for lack of a better term. There's obviously all of the health related issues with carrying excess body fat around your midsection. We know that having what's called visceral fat, especially the fat that is kind of intertwined around your organs, that is extremely unhealthy for your body, your chances of having heart disease and diabetes like they just go through the roof and all of these metabolic syndromes when you have visceral fat, that type of fat that just gets lodged inside of your gut and inside of your torso. It's it's more dangerous than the kind of fat that's more on your limbs. However it in addition into that, I have to say that the belly fat this, this excess fat around the midsection, especially women, but I think men too, we have always had this discomfort with the way that our midsection looks. There's this like obsession with having a nice trim, Veldt figure, you know, where we have a beautiful waist. And so anytime we feel like we're outside of that, where we feel like we're squishy or, or wide or thick around the midsection, we feel like we're not falling into the aesthetic norms of our culture. And that really aggravates us and makes us lose a lot of confidence in our body. And so whenever I'm helping coach, people through this, it's like, let's really make sure that your intentions moving forward are more based on getting you as healthy and functionally fit as possible. And then we'll let the aesthetics fall where they lie. Because I find that when people come at it from it from an angle of I just want to see my abs or I just want to look good. It's a motivation that doesn't very often points you in the wrong direction, you kind of end up feeling like willing to do whatever it takes. And that tends to lead you down an unhealthy route. So if we can be pointed in the direction of like, okay, let me approach chat, like taking care of his belly fat from it, from the healthiest aspect possible from coming about it from as, as healthy as I can and get as healthy and fit as possible, and then let the aesthetics fall, where they live, you're gonna have a much better time and and get the results you really want and without damaging your body in the process.

Philip Pape 11:55

Yeah, that makes that makes a lot of sense. Because the athletic figure many people are going for is an outcome of many, many other things that it may not be a one to one root cause or, you know, proximal, cause. It's funny, because I've just recently recorded an episode of mine coming out soon called, why I'm getting fluffy before I get jacked. And it's a it's just a real honest conversation in my mind about my own fluffiness and belly fat as I gain weight, but I'm doing it on purpose. I know that the final outcome once I lose fat later on will reveal you're working out. But I'm not. I don't care. Because I'd rather get strong right now. And I know it'll pay off just just somewhat tangential. And from a male's perspective, we do have those insecurities as well. Yeah,

Megan Dahlman 12:39

yeah. And it really is that mindset shift and be like, what do I really care about in the long run? Like maybe right? On the surface, I say that I really care about, you know, having a really slim figure or having visible abs. But on the in the hole, if I zoom out and say like, what do I really want for my body? Where do I want my body in five years, 10 years, 20 years, do I want to have a body that has zero back and hip pain that I can say I have extremely dense bones through my spine, I don't have to worry about disc issues or functional issues, I can be fit and active and move like an athlete well into my 70s and 80s. I'm gonna raise my hand at that all day long, and say that that is a higher priority to me, then being able to look great in a swimsuit. And I know I have to just trust that in the back of my head, me pursuing that long term outcome is also going to achieve these more surface level goals that I also have for my aesthetics, and be okay with that. And it just might take a little slower. And like you said, you might have a little fluff in the moment, when you're doing it the right way. Sometimes it it doesn't happen the way we want it to.

Philip Pape 13:59

It's true. It depends on how much of that you want to accept during the various cycles of getting there. Everybody's everybody's body is different. genetics are different, where you lose fat first or not. Changes, you know, men versus women especially. And of course, the place that we gain fat first, and it comes off last as the place we least want it to be. And when people ask about that, usually my response is it's probably just a it's probably just booty call it catch 22 And that that's where you've been seeing it your whole life because you're prone to gaining the fat there. So let's let's talk about we do we do need to dress somewhat of the belly fat piece itself. And what causes that since we know there is a health component not just an aesthetic component, especially the hormonal changes. I want to get into that either during Peri and post menopause or just in general. Tell us about the connection.

Megan Dahlman 14:50

So as you enter perimenopause and then in those postmenopausal years, really what's going on as your estrogen production is declining. Your razors simply not producing as much estrogen. There's other hormones involved too. Even in women, there's the progesterone and testosterone. And then also in men as as men age, there's less testosterone production. But we're kind of talking mostly about the perimenopause and menopausal belly fat. Estrogen, I like to call it the magical hormone, it does so many things in your body, it maintains muscle mass, like it keeps, it's like a little protector and shield around muscle mass loss it, it manages your hunger, it actually is an appetite suppressant and natural appetite suppressant. Estrogen actually helps provide energy and as a mood booster. So your motivation is often a lot higher during the time of the month, when you have high levels of estrogen, you're more likely to want to get out there and get after it, versus like hunker down and not really do much. Estrogen also keeps inflammation at bay, it's an anti inflammatory. So when we see of, when we look at it like that, like, okay, these are all the wonderful things that estrogen does. Now, we know on the flip side, when your body stops producing estrogen, all of these things now start to become a problem, we start to lose muscle mass, we have to work a little harder to maintain and even build muscle mass, our hunger cues start to get all out of whack, we tend to be a little bit more hungry throughout the day, we don't have as high of a mood or motivation if feels like a struggle, we don't have as much energy, we tend to be a little bit more inflamed throughout our body. So we might have some joint pain and achiness due to that inflammation, or maybe excess bloating and just discomfort, which can impact our desire to want to exercise. So all of these things can really be related to that estrogen lack of estrogen production. And then when you also have that estrogen being a little bit more dominant at any given point than progesterone, that can also be a problem, you've probably heard of estrogen dominance, where, yeah, your estrogen is declining in production, but it's also like way out of balance with the other hormones. So all of these things are just kind of like, all out of whack. And now you realize, in my 20s, and in my early 30s, all of these things were so easy, I could exercise and I could see results pretty quickly. Now we have an environment where everything is just a little bit more challenging. And it can make that belly fat situation far more challenging. And we're gonna get into, you know, what we can do for the belly fat. But all of those things that I mentioned, can all point back to an increase in fat storage around the belly region,

Philip Pape 17:57

that alone is a fantastic thing to understand. For women, when it comes to these imbalances. What do we know the mechanism by which fat stored in the abdomen increases due to that,

Megan Dahlman 18:07

we tend to have more of those Alpha receptors of estrogen and those sex hormones in the belly fat region. And so when your hormones are a little bit off kilter, those fat storage cells in the fat area in the belly area tend to be a little bit more sensitive, and they kind of want to hold on to that a little quicker, and release it last. So it's kind of that area. And Women also tend to have those in the tricep region. And in the thigh region, we have a lot of those receptors for that type of hormone fat distribution. So those kind of get a little bit more sensitive when your estrogen levels are not as high.

Philip Pape 19:01

Okay, the triceps I wasn't aware of, but I could I could picture that happening in older women. You know, when you see that visually, what about is there any impact on thyroid or metabolic rate independent of the factory metabolisms affected by all the other things you mentioned? Yeah.

Megan Dahlman 19:17

I mean, it's, it's tangential, you know, it kind of goes side by side with that. A lot of women going through perimenopause and menopause might not have thyroid issues at all. Many of them that is one of the symptoms of menopause is seeing a change in those thyroid hormone production. So that's where working with your doctor and getting those blood tests taken and seeing your thyroid hormone levels, in connection with those other hormonal levels can be really helpful. But not always. So it's yes or no. Yeah,

Philip Pape 19:50

it's complicated. Yeah, as always, it's kind of complicated. So you posted a real recently on Instagram about four strategies for reducing belly If and of course we know how short form video is, maybe there's six maybe there's a you know, the you may have more than four and your feel free to we can add to the list. But it was about the science behind belly fat accumulation women over 40 we're talking about. And I wanted to start with, instead of getting into the four things, are there any other myths or misconceptions on this topic that people will say, maybe the one percenters or even just falsehoods about reducing belly fat before we get into the real things at work,

Megan Dahlman 20:28

I've come up with three, there are three big things when it comes to the belly fat is first and foremost is like spot training, saying, Okay, I have an extra accumulation of fat in my belly region. So give me all of the ab exercises that I can possibly find. And you can spot strengthen, but you cannot spot reduce. So you can't do exercises for one specific region on your body and expect the fat distribution in that region to decrease. However, if you do a bunch of exercises for those particular muscles, those muscles will get stronger. That's how they work. So keeping that in mind, like that is a big misconception, I have a really popular core training program, just a simple like five day core tune up and I get a lot of people signing up for it being like, this is really great, I've got a bunch of fat to lose in my midsection, it's like way, way, way, way Wait, this is good for that in the long run, but for a different reason, I don't want you to go into it thinking that the intention of this core training program is to get rid of the fat around your belly, it doesn't work like that. So spot training is kind of the the first thing and hold on.

Philip Pape 21:41

And a different reason I'm gonna guess is that by having the extra muscle definition, you can reveal it at a higher body fat later on correct.

Megan Dahlman 21:48

And by having a stronger stable core, in the long run, you're going to be able to train with greater capacity and build that muscle over the rest of your body. So, so yet it it's so foundational to everything else you're going to want to try to accomplish. So the second misconception is just straight up calorie reduction. Like I've got excess fat on my body, I gotta just keep cutting, cutting, cutting calories back back back, then unfortunately, there's a lot of women out there that are only consuming eight or 900 calories a day. And now we have reduced metabolic rate. We have muscles that are shrinking because of it. And it's this like backwards effect. And you get to this point where now I'm spot training really hard on my abs. Now I'm cutting calories like crazy. Why is this not working? Let me add in cardio. That's the other misconception. The third one, the third one, so adding more cardio. So that's kind of our go to in our brain of like I have fat to lose. So I better like ramp up my cardio

Philip Pape 23:00

and just cut that energy into that that restricted state. Yeah, exactly. Hey, this is Philip. And I hope you're enjoying this guest interview on Wits & Weights. If you're finding it valuable, you can get a bonus conversation we recorded. If you're on our email list, just go to wits & weights.com/bonus or click the link in the show notes. Insiders on our email list will get a link to the bonus conversation where my guest will give you the exact steps to take related to one of the topics in today's episode. Again, these conversations are only available if you're on our free email list to get the bonus exclusive content with today's guest. Just go to wits & weights.com/bonus, or click the link in the show notes. Now back to the show. Okay, so that's what doesn't work. Let's go over the four things you talked about maybe in the order you mentioned them. I don't know if that's important if the order matters, but the first one was sleep or do you want to reveal these the first one sleep so?

Megan Dahlman 23:59

Yeah. So I think it really does help understanding that what's going on with the belly fat is so hormonal II related. And when you understand that you can say okay, I can do a little bit more thorough approach to attack it. Because we don't in our brains, we have a hard time understanding that a lack of sleep will impact our belly fat, like it doesn't make sense. It's hard for us to make that connection. Like if I get a good night's sleep. How is that gonna reduce my belly fat, like that doesn't like directly relate, but it does. Because when you lack sleep, if you're sleep deprived, your body thinks that it's so stressed out and it creates more cortisol and creates this more inflammatory environment. Especially when you have when your body's bathing in cortisol. It loves to hold on to especially belly fat. Those belly fat receptors are just like really prime to Hold on to that visceral type of fat. So sleep is really, really important. The likelihood of someone who gets excellent sleep, and also has a significant amount of belly fat is, is really low likelihood. So often, if you look at someone who has a lot of belly fat, most of the time they're very poor sleep, or they might have sleep apnea, they might have sleep disturbances like that, or really bad sleep hygiene. And they're very closely related. So sleep is number one, is it getting the point where you can get between six to eight hours of sleep a night? And yes, hormones do impact your quality of sleep. And I know a lot of women going through midlife feel like I, this feels so out of my control, I hear what you're saying, but I don't feel like I can get better sleep. The other things that I'm going to mention, we'll circle back and improve your sleep. So even if you feel like I'm doing all the sleep hygiene stuff, I'm still not sleeping well. I'm trying I really am. These other things will improve your sleep quality, too. So sleep is absolutely first. I agree. And

Philip Pape 26:11

I, there was a study, I've referenced it in the past, I forgot the details of it. But they took two groups, one that was sleep restricted, like five or five and a half hours, the other had eight hours. And they found two different things. One was when they were in a ad libitum like calorie surplus. The group that was sleep deprived, gained more belly fat, yeah, or I'm sorry, isocaloric. So both groups had the same calories, but they were gaining the group that had the sleep deprivation gained more of that fat in their belly. Yep, correlated with what you're saying. And then secondly, when you are allowed to just eat whatever you get a lot hungrier when you have less sleep, so then you gain more weight. So that's just another negative, there's many negatives of poor sleep. We know that sounds good. Okay, they're

Megan Dahlman 26:49

all intertwined that sleep. The second one is stress, stress management. So usually, when I mentioned this, someone will say there's so many things in my life that caused me stress that feel out of my control, and I really can't, I can't get rid of these things. Whether it's, you know, you're a caretaker for other family members, like that is a burden on your life. That could be very stressful, and it's something that you are called to do, like, that's what you have to do. So it's not about getting rid of stresses, sure, if there are things in your life that you can eliminate, like, let's get rid of those like, like leave for work 10 minutes earlier. So you stop dealing with the traffic stress, you know, like, let's, those little things can help. But it's more about how you manage your stress. When your stress is going unchecked. Your body is constantly in this fight or flight response. It's in that sympathetic nervous system environment where it's constantly pumping out those stress hormones, once again, that cortisol, high levels of adrenaline, which adrenaline, which directly impacts your ability to sleep, if you're going to bed stressed, your body is in a fight or flight response. It's in this like geared up charged up state, and it's going to impact your sleep. So I always say, let's come up with two, maybe three things that you can do each day to just manage your stress. It doesn't mean that you have to try to eliminate all your stress, we're just going to figure out how to manage it. Whether you feel like you need to or not. Those things should be constant every day, whether or not you're stressed out so that when you hit a season of life, that's super stressful. You already have these stress management mechanisms happening routinely in your day. You're like I got this, I already have a way to manage my stress system. Great ways to do this is getting up a few minutes earlier and just journaling in the morning or reading or praying or three thinking whatever it might be for you. It could be every afternoon I close my computer, I make a cup of tea and I read my book and I take a nap. I'm a Napper. And then every evening, I go for about a 20 or 30 minute walk. It's not for fitness. It's for stress. So in my normal life, there's three things I do every single day for stress management, whether or not I actually feel stressed out. So that's what I recommend for people is just like always having these things in your life that just keep your stress levels like at a manageable level.

Philip Pape 29:36

Yeah, I love that. We recently did an episode about stress and ask the community what are all your examples and it's, it's beautiful, how many different things people have, whether it's like playing an instrument or walking on the beach, you know? And of course, those of us who lift lifting is an acute stressor that reduces chronic stress as well. Yeah. Especially apparently when done in the morning, which is an interesting thing. It kind of burns down some of that cortisol So great ideas totally agree, I think of the idea of doing something every day consistently, not just because now I'm stressed, let me do this thing, which can be stressful to be like, I need to do something to reduce stress can help. And then since you talked about sleep, I don't know if you're gonna mention this, but more stress can cause an interruption in your sleeping or vice versa. Yep,

Megan Dahlman 30:19

exactly. Yeah, they really go hand in hand. And then of course, that leads us to the next one. Nutrition. Obviously, that plays a role in your belly fat. And the most important things when it comes to having an environment in your body that releases those excess body fat stores and brings you to a good body composition is having good amounts of protein. I think we're all protein fans around here. And reducing those sugars, processed carbs, processed foods in general. So I always like to attack nutrition from a what can we add in more of mentality? Like, what can we wait? Yeah, additive mentality. So what can we put on your plate like more and more and more and more, it, it's such an easier way that will start to kind of crowd out the unhealthy foods. So especially women in midlife, this is the number one thing that most women are not getting enough of his protein. And whenever I mentioned, how much a good ideal amount of protein is for them, their jaw always drops to the floor. And they're like, but I'm not a bodybuilder, I'm like, but you want to keep muscle on your body. Trust me, I know. And so usually, for my goal with women is like, let's, let's just establish a baseline, let's just get a good idea of kind of how much you're eating. Now. I think, on average, most women I work with are kind of around the 10 grams of protein per meal mark, you know, they'll have a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Or they'll have a hard a hard boiled egg. Or they'll have you know, something that kind of

Philip Pape 32:06

one slice of meat on there.

Megan Dahlman 32:09

Yeah, or they'll have like a bowl of cereal that's like protein that you know, a Special K protein, like, right, right? Oh, wait a second, that has six grams protein,

Philip Pape 32:18

there has to be more protein. And if you had a slice of bread, yes. Cereal? Yeah,

Megan Dahlman 32:24

it's like, okay, let's just get a good sense of like where your protein is at now. And then what can we do to add a little bit more in and then just gradually over time, that way, we're not going from, you know, you're used to eating 30 grams of protein a day. And we're suddenly to like trying to get over 100 grams of protein that can feel like a huge leap. Like, let's just slowly ratchet it up, adding a little bit more kind of bringing in a higher quality of looking for I'm, I'm already having Yoker, how can I switch from having like regular yogurt to Greek yogurt that can double it just like that. So, so little tweaks of things that you're already eating, what can I do to what I'm already eating to boost that amount of protein, naturally, so I'm getting close to that 100 grams a day mark. For a lot of women, that's a great threshold to try to get to. Man, if I could get women eating, you know, one gram of protein for how much they weigh or their target weight, that would be amazing, it would make huge difference. That's the stretch goal. Yeah, on their body. But that can feel like a big leap. And that's okay, I understand that. So just figuring out where you're at now and how to just grow that and then the other side of the plate, produce loaded up with produce as much as you can. And that gives you that fiber that helps slow down your digestion, it just helps your body with inflammation, all the things so one really simple hack that I love on the nutrition side is just think eat your pros. Eat your pros. Every meal, look down at your plate, see protein produce protein produce, like if you can just operate throughout your life.

Philip Pape 34:02

Oh, that's where that comes from. Okay, I hadn't looked into that. I thought the pro just meant protein now yet protein and produce good, okay,

Megan Dahlman 34:09

keeps it so simple. You know, it makes sense. You're not like counting, you know, you're not having to like track things like you could go to a restaurant, you can go to a buffet, you can go find yourself in all these challenging eating environments and say like, where's the protein? Where's the produce? If it's from the produce department, like that counts? Like, I don't care if it's fruit or vegetables, like just eat it? This is good. Like, yeah, it's so it's a great way to just say, I know that if on my plate, I see protein here and I see produce here. I'm doing a pretty good job.

Philip Pape 34:41

And if you go to the grocery store, it starts with produce, then it's usually the meat department. Yeah, then it's usually dairy and eggs, and that is all your protein right there. Outside of greens and stuff like that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I love it. I don't know. I could ask a million questions about nutrition because that's like 90% of what we talk about here and I know we'll talk about it on your show as well. All. But two things come to mind. It sounds like you favor a more maybe intuitive and less track approach and maybe wrong because maybe there's different levels, depending on the clients you work with. So maybe address that. And then the second thing is vegetarians and vegans. What are what are your advice for them? Yeah, so

Megan Dahlman 35:16

the first part, I always recommend for women to come into it by starting as simple as possible. Like, most people are coming from a place of like, I'm so haphazard. With my eating, I'm starting at like scratch here. So jumping straight to like more challenging, eating skills, like like tracking and counting calories. And counting macros is pretty advanced, like when you're starting from scratch. So I say, let's just start with the how of eating, how to put protein on your plate, how to put produce on your plate, how to eat slowly, how to hydrate, how to pay attention to how food makes you feel, we have to start there, rather than jumping to more advanced skills. And for a lot of people, that's enough, that gets them to a place where they're really healthy, they feel great. They feel like it's not like taking over their life, and they're getting the results that they want. And so if that's the case, it's like, that's awesome. Like, there's no reason to do it any harder than that. Occasionally, if you're really consistent with the basics, and feel like you do need to dial it up a little bit more, you're not getting the results that you want. It's like great, let's explore those slightly more challenging things. And that's where we can bring in the tracking. There's lots of ways that we can track that are pretty simple, like we can just track of, did I have protein today? Did I have a splurge today, and I like to just use like simple checkmarks to start with, of like, we don't need to like measure numbers yet. Let's just have an awareness tool first. Because you might be splurging five days, five times a day and not realizing it. Let's start with that. Like, can we get your splurge isn't a splurge would be anything outside of like the protein produce good healthy fats, good whole grains, anything that lands outside of that, just put an X on your chart? How many x's are you getting a day, you know, if Can we somehow get that down to mostly checkmarks and just 1x. Awesome. And maybe that'll get you the results that you want without ever having to count anything. So I always say let's start with the lowest common denominator. See if that works first, before we go to something a little bit more tricky. So then talking towards the vegetarian vegan side of things, the protein and produce still works is just a lot of your protein is going to be also produce, which is great enough. My recommendation for more plant based eaters is making sure that well understanding that the protein that comes from plants is most often not complete, doesn't have all those nine essential amino acids that your body needs is the building blocks. So when you're looking at your produce, or your protein that goes on your plate, I say pick two. So to keep it really simple, if you're going to put beans in that meal as your protein also add nuts and seeds, if you're going to have lentils also have peas, if you're going to have tofu also add quinoa, so that you've got like two sources of protein on your plate, rather than just one because if you do eat animal products, you can get plenty of protein and all the essential amino acids you need from just the one source of protein. But if you're a more vegetarian or vegan, you're probably going to be able to cover your bases if you have to plant based protein sources on your plate. That makes sense.

Philip Pape 38:57

Rice and beans. Yes. It's funny because I agree. And that's that's often my advice as well. And the quantity is harder a little bit harder sometimes because now you're competing with fats and carbs, foods. But I have a colleague, he's a coach, he's he's a plant based. He's an omnivore, but he prefers a more plant centric diet. And he has some debates with me and others friendly debates about the complete amino acid thing because he'll show like, even just a very sparse plant diet, you can still get your complete amino acids he likes to show like through all the data, bla bla bla, but we have arguments about that. It's fine. I just wanted to mention that

Megan Dahlman 39:32

it's really tricky to do like that's, you got to really know your stuff. Like you have to really know like, this plant source has these ones. And then this has these ones and then educated Yeah, you have to really be educated and which is cool if you want to nerd out on that stuff. Like go for it. But for the average individual is really challenging. It's really tricky. Yeah. So

Philip Pape 39:54

let's get to the fourth one, which is my favorite. What is that strength

Megan Dahlman 39:58

training so Strength training. So when it comes to belly fat, this is where your brains like, oh, well, let me just do the things that's going to burn the most calories. Well, okay, yes, makes sense. But what ultimately what is the thing that will burn the most calories, and it's anything that's going to put muscle on your frame. Because that is a more thorough approach to having a body that has a faster metabolic rate. And so if you can prioritize strength building or muscle building work, whether that's coming from weightlifting, or using your own body as resistance, I always recommend starting with that start with just bodyweight only work first so that you know how to move and control your body without putting things in your hands and having to figure multiple stuff out at the same time. A lot of people don't think that bodyweight stuff is strength training, like Well think about how heavy your body is you're pushing and pulling that around. That's resistance. Megan,

Philip Pape 41:03

you don't have to convince me I just did leg races this morning. Speaking of vectors that are tough, yeah. Oh,

Megan Dahlman 41:11

man. Oh, yeah. So we can do a really thorough, highly effective resistance training workout without any equipment. So but just something that keeps you in, you know, it's a good strength building routine, and muscle building routine, if it kind of stays in the, like six to 12 repetition range. And if we're, if we're getting significantly outside of that, like six to 12 repetition range, now we're kind of moving a little bit more in the stamina side, it's not going to create as much of that hypertrophy in your muscles. So I always say, let's do the bodyweight only wait, like work first, let's get confident with those movements. And then let's see how once you have the confidence, let's see what we can do to keep ratcheting up the load so that you keep staying as you're getting stronger, you keep staying in that six to 12 repetitions range, which, honestly, for those of us that strength train a lot. That's actually a pretty wide range. I don't know about you, but a workout that has 12 reps, feels very different to me than a workout that has six reps. And to be honest, like, I'd rather do the workout with the six reps.

Philip Pape 42:28

I agree. If people find that out, they do. They're like, Oh, you know, I mean, I'm not just constantly doing all these reps in the gym. No, you're not. It's actually a little bit more fun sometimes. Yeah,

Megan Dahlman 42:36

yeah, I love the heavy, the heavy weight, heavier, low reps, heavy loads is my favorite kind of weight training.

Philip Pape 42:43

It's fun. It is definitely fun. Ya know, I like that six to 12. You know, I've used everything from like, you know, four to six on the strength side to up to 12. And then beyond that, it depends if you have certain bodybuilding programming and specialized stuff you're doing that you did a great episode about this recently, I wanted to mention for the listeners, so you should definitely subscribe to your podcast, self care simplified, because it wasn't long ago, although probably a couple months behind when this comes out. That was about strength training, how to get started, you know how to get started for women, you talked about body weight, and then dumbbells and things. So check that out. In the interest of time, I want listeners to know what we're gonna do. Outside of this episode, for those on our email list, you're gonna get a bonus episode that Megan and I are going to do about the best core exercises themselves. So we're gonna save that for that. But like I asked all my guests before we end up if Is there a question that you wish I asked? What is your answer?

Megan Dahlman 43:37

You know, I think a great question, especially when we're talking about making changes to belly fat is when can you expect to see results? I think this is, you know, you're starting to like, implement the strategies and you're like, Okay, when can I expect to see results? I think most of us want to see them right now. And I think it's really helpful to have a good understanding of when results actually happen. And I like to go with my rule of threes. So usually, once you start doing or implementing a new habit consistently, usually it takes three weeks to feel the benefits of that new habit. So if you're starting a good core training program, usually it takes three weeks to feel your core functioning differently than it had been before. Three months is kind of the next benchmark at three months of consistently doing a good habit and I keep using that word consistent. Because you just need to you need to keep showing up and typically bringing yourself to the table at three months is usually when those visible results really float to the surface. Usually around that three month mark is when you're like okay, I can actually see I can see my muscle because now I can see the fat distribution changing my body composition changing. Most people like I want to see I want those visible results at the three week mark, it's like, well, maybe. But often No, if you don't see anything yet three weeks, like, you're on track. You're, you're not, you're not doing anything wrong. Like, let's make sure you're feeling a difference. Like that's a great indication that you're on the right track. Usually, at the three month mark is when people are like, okay, I can actually, my pants are fitting looser around my midsection. And that's to say, you know, not to say that you won't get some of those results earlier. But I like to give people that really realistic timeline expectation, because it's like, don't judge something in the first three weeks, please, like just give it time to settle in and work for you. And then let's make sure that by three weeks, you're starting to feel your body improve. And then around three months, we should be seeing some visible changes, it's probably not going to be this giant change. We're all about no quick fixes around here. But that's a really good benchmark to aim for. And I find that that's really helpful mentally when you're embarking on something that's hard. I

Philip Pape 46:22

love that. Yeah, three weeks to feel three weeks to see the muscles, or three months to see if

Megan Dahlman 46:27

there is a third benchmark. And I'm always hesitant to mention this one. But it's actually wager three years. Yeah, actually, okay. Three years is when it's now your identity. It usually takes someone of showing up consistently and making their fitness and nutrition a priority, where there's something that happens around the three year mark, where it now is so ingrained in who they are, that they don't have to think about it anymore. It's just part of their life. So it's so habitual. And so I get a lot of women and men that I work with, you know, in the first year where they're like, Why is this still so hard for me to show? Why do I still need accountability? Why do I still need to be like, fighting to make this a priority in my life? And I'm like, you're on track. Like, you haven't reached that three year mark. You know, you're you're still in that baby phase of like, your, your will get there. Right around that three year mark. And I have time and time again. I asked people I work with when they've been at it for three or four years and like, can you imagine your life without this? Like, oh, gosh, no, like, I can't even imagine not doing this. Exactly.

Philip Pape 47:35

Oh, I love that. So three weeks to feel three months to see and three years to be

Megan Dahlman 47:40

Oh, that's good. Oh, there you go.

Philip Pape 47:43

I didn't know I don't know if you're gonna say that another like that'll fit. Become that athlete that we are. That is core to identity and that we are now turning into love it. Okay, Megan, where can people learn more about you and your work? Definitely

Megan Dahlman 47:57

check out my podcast self care simplified. So we are releasing two episodes a week Philip, you're going to be on the show same week that this goes live, which will be really cool. So come check that out. I love to break things down in really, really simple ways. Make them super approachable. And then definitely over on Instagram. I'm there every day multiple times a day. You can find me at Meghan, Dolman, just my name. Love to come say hi.

Philip Pape 48:23

Perfect. I'll throw those in the show notes. As always. This was awesome. Again, we're gonna do a little mini episode that people can catch up there on the email list. And thank you again for coming on the show.

Megan Dahlman 48:33

Thank you for having me, Philip. This has been definitely

Philip Pape 48:37

thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights. Please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong.

Philip Pape 2/20/24 Philip Pape 2/20/24

Ep 148: Q&A - Full-Body vs. Split Routine, Faster Recovery, and Hybrid Training (Lifting + Cardio)

Which is better, full-body training or body part splits? How can you recover faster between workouts, especially when doing a lot of high-intensity cardio? How can you balance lifting and cardio for a hybrid training approach to get the most out of both? Philip is answering these three questions on today’s episode.

Which is better, full-body training or body part splits? How can you recover faster between workouts, especially when doing a lot of high-intensity cardio? How can you balance lifting and cardio for a hybrid training approach to get the most out of both?

Philip (@witsandweights) is answering these three questions on today’s episode.

Today, you’ll learn all about:
3:46 Should I do full-body or target areas daily for lifting or strength training?
10:11 Do you have any advice to improve recovery so I can do a third workout within a week?
28:27 How do I balance resistance training and cardio?
38:50 Outro

Episode resources:

Episode summary:

Philip takes listeners through an enlightening journey to uncover the secrets of maximizing fitness gains, shedding light on the perennial debate between full-body workouts and targeted body part splits, providing insights tailored to different experience levels. For those embarking on their strength training journey, he outlines the benefits of full-body sessions, emphasizing their efficiency in promoting rapid strength gains. Conversely, Philip explains that split routines offer the volume necessary for experienced lifters to break through plateaus and continue progressing.

But what about when the weights are down and the sneakers are tucked away? Recovery, Philip stresses, is not a one-size-fits-all solution. The podcast delves into innovative recovery tactics, addressing even those with the most hectic of schedules. Philipdiscusses the importance of aligning recovery tactics with individual fitness goals and provides practical tips for maintaining fitness on the go, highlighting nutritional hacks and active recovery strategies.

The conversation shifts to a conundrum faced by many gym enthusiasts: the balance between maintaining muscle mass and improving cardiovascular health. Philip breaks down strategies that allow for this delicate balance, such as the use of adjustable dumbbells and microplates, and how to integrate cardio into your regimen without compromising muscle gains. The episode explores the nuances of workout alignment with personal aspirations, be it muscle building, fat loss, or marathon preparation.

Philip also answers questions from the fitness community, emphasizing personalized training plans that align with individual goals and recovery needs. He offers insights on proper nutrition, sufficient protein intake, the impact of fat loss phases on recovery, and the importance of hydration and sleep. He provides actionable advice for truck drivers with limited options, recommending portable high-protein snacks and strategies for improving sleep in challenging conditions.

Listeners learn about the versatility of strength training with adjustable dumbbells, particularly for those with limited gym access, and the importance of technique in maximizing muscle and strength gains. Philip also touches on the importance of varying workout intensities to aid muscle recovery and overall well-being.

In summary, this episode of Whits and Weights presents a comprehensive guide for anyone looking to refine their fitness regimen for optimal results. Philip’s expert advice, combined with practical strategies and personalized insights, offers listeners the tools to revolutionize their training regime and unlock their best bodies through custom workout strategies.

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Get notified of new episodes. Use your favorite podcast platform or one of the buttons below. Then hit “Subscribe” or “Follow” and you’re good to go!

Transcript

Philip Pape 00:00

Which is better full body training or body part splits? How can you recover faster between workouts? Especially when doing a lot of high intensity cardio? How can you balance lifting and cardio for a hybrid training approach? To get the most out of both? I'm answering these three questions on today's episode.

Philip Pape 00:20

Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host, Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry. So you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in Wits & Weights community Welcome to another solo episode of the Wits & Weights podcast. In our last episode 147 A brand new way to workout at home with Josh York, you learn about a company called gym guys, and it's unique in home training model, you'll learn about Josh's intense personal workout and health regimen and how he balances everything. His views on the fitness industry and some practical strategies for training, building muscle and optimizing your fitness. Today for episode 148. We are answering three questions in a q&a questions from the community about training, splits, recovery, and balancing lifting and cardio. And I pulled them together from three different sources, one from Instagram, one from a voice message on our families page and one from Facebook. Now it's been a while since we did a q&a, mainly because we do them all the time in the Wits & Weights Facebook group with our weekly ask Phillip thread. So I wanted to take a quick moment of course and mentioned that yes, we do have a Facebook community that's totally free. Where we do a weekly live q&a. We do free live workshops, lifting form checks, you can post questions and get very positive supportive answers at all times. Just click the link in the show notes to join the Wits & Weights Facebook group and check us out see what it's all about. We'd love to have you. Now before we get to the q&a, I did want to share a couple of fresh five star reviews from Apple so that you can hear directly from listeners. These are very short. The first one is from neuron Tillman. Thanks for leading with value. I love the fact that you give so much valuable information, your transparency is refreshing. Thanks for being so passionate. And he was talking about transparency in the context of the episode I did with the five foolproof strategies for hitting your macros. And one of those I suggested that you use AI tools to give you a meal plan, even though I'm a nutrition coach, and I think that's what he was talking about. Now the second review from T dawg 117, I needed this inspiration. It's a new year. And I'm always looking for more advice on what to do in the gym, and how to be healthier. This podcast does exactly that. I'm so glad I found this. And I will be following from now on. Thank you. Thank you very much for the follow. And by the way, anyone who's listening right now, if you do love this show, the best thing you can do for me is follow the show by following me and click the Follow or subscribe button in Apple, it's called follow. And that will ensure that you get future episodes you get notified. It also though, helps the algorithm the ranking algorithm so that people can find the show is based not just on downloads, but also follows. So that would be very helpful. If you liked the show already. And you'd like to listen to it. Go ahead and click follow. Alright, now let's get to those three questions again, one from Instagram. That's the first one. You can send me a message or a question anytime on Instagram at Wits & Weights. I love to chat with folks and just audio messages, video of text, whatever. All right, this is from AP Cal, MCIL requestion. Lifting better to do full body or target areas each day. All right, she's asking the age old question of should I do three full body sessions each week that involve upper and lower movements in every session and tend to be on the longer side? Or should I split those into body parts or upper lower or push pull leg splits across four, five or even six days a week in a split routine? So let's just break it down at a very high level. What are the differences? full body workouts you have? You're doing upper and lower body movements every session now they may be the same movements are very similar. Like you may like in starting strength where you're squatting every session, you're doing a presser benchpress and you're doing a deadlift. And so this gives you frequency. This gives you significant frequency. You're going three times a week and doing the same movements rather than say once a week on a typical split or maybe twice indirectly. And for a new lifter even an early intermediate. This is fantastic for making progress because you can increase the weight on the bar each session and just push push push and make significant and serious strength gains. very quickly. The other thing is it's it's time efficient in the sense that it's fewer days per week even, even though the sessions might be a little bit longer. So if you're commuting to the gym, and you're trying to just get a lot done for your time, and you're using big compound lifts, it's very time efficient. Now, split routines where you're doing four or five, or even six days a week, you get more volume during the week, this is often needed when you're an elite, intermediate or advanced trainee, because you can no longer progress. If you you know, if you went three days a week, you would just kill yourself, you wouldn't be able to recover, you wouldn't be able to progress. So we, we split it up where you say you're only squatting one of those four days, but then you might be dead lifting or doing other leg movements, another of those four days. So you get more volume, over four or five or six days, because the sessions are a little bit shorter, but now you're doing more sessions. And you could still have frequency with indirect targeting of muscle groups, right? Like you can, you can bench press one day, and close grip bench press a different day where you're focused on triceps, both cases, you're also hitting the chest. So the recovery is also an issue here. Because, yeah, the frequency may be less, but you also need that extra recovery, because you can't advance as quickly as a beginner, right, especially for things like low back recovery and things like that. Now, given your experience, you might already have a good sense of what works for your body in terms of volume and recovery. But we did have a follow up conversation and you mentioned that you're self taught, and I could sense a little bit of a lack of confidence of has what you've been doing, then the best thing for you. So either you already have solid form and technique, or even green some bad habits over the years that need to be unlearned. Either way, here's my recommendation, try a simple Full Body program, something like starting strength, which I talked about how to pick a program way back in the archives in episode two, episode two, and I go back and listen to those early episodes. And I cringe because I like, you know, I feel like I've grown a lot since then as a communicator, however, the content is still solid, I still stand by it. And I think you'll learn a lot about my thinking of the very basics here of what you can incorporate as a beginner. And even if you've been training for 1015 years, and you have so so called bad habits, you may still be a beginner when it comes to proper progressive overload and strength training. So try a three day program like starting strength where you squat press, or bench and deadlift, every session, focus on improving that form, but also making some serious strength gains before you switch to a split. Then when you're ready for a split, I like something like a classic four day upper lower split for most intermediate lifters where, for example, very simple bench on Monday, squat on Tuesday, press on Thursday, deadlift on Friday, and then you have like three or four movements after those big lifts that include, you know, some of the less stressful compound lifts like RDLs, for example, or incline dumbbell presses and so on. And then maybe some isolation work, you know, if you're working on your biceps or shoulders, lateral raises, calf raises, things like that. And then after that the sky's the limit in terms of what options are available to you from pure bro splits, which I talked about with Andy Baker recently in the podcast. So go search that you can go to wits & weights.com/podcast, and search for any past episode with a search box there and find the topic, but look for Andy Baker. And we talked all about bro splits. You could do push pull legs, you could do there are even three days per week programs that are kind of like full body programs. But for more advanced lifters where you're doing like a heavy light medium, instead of going all out every session. And then there are even high frequency programs, which I'm not a big fan of. But for some people they work. Women tend to recover better than men, it might work for you, and so on. As always, as I'm going to say on the show many times. It depends on your goals, your lifestyle, how your body responds. And you know, have fun with it. Like experiment. Life is a journey you have many years to try these things out. The principles are always the same progressive overload, right? Training, hard training, close to failure, having a managing stimulus versus recovery and fatigue. And eventually you're going to cycle through different programs, you might spend anywhere from like 12 weeks to many months, or even a year or more running the same program before you switch it up, depending on how well it's designed. So again, if you haven't gone back far in the archives if you haven't like been a binge listener, go back to episode two attitudes a strength training program. And if you're listening to my podcast and you haven't heard that, or many of the old episodes, definitely go check all those out the very first like 10 episodes were these foundational education series that I put together, which I'd love to revisit at some time to be honest, but they're still pretty solid. And then after that there's a Many, many episodes on these topics. Always reach out to me if you want on IG since we're already connected there, or go use the Wits & Weights comm slash podcast, podcast finder. Okay. Question number two is from the fan list page we have, okay. And this is, if you got a fan list.com/wits & weights, you can submit a voice message. Yeah, it's like old school, you know, call in radio show. And so our second question is from James Carr. And I'm gonna play that for you live on the show right now.

10:32

Hello, my name is James Carr. And I'm a big fan of your podcasts. I love the information that you have. I listen every week, multiple times through the week. So I really appreciate what you put out there on the podcast, and over the road truck driver. 54 will be 65 years old. In February. My question is about recovery. At work out. I'm not new to working out. However, I have deconditioned over the last probably 1012 years. I've just started working out again in about six months ago. I've seen some gains. But my question is, my recovery is so slow, that it's hard for me to get more than two workouts in during the week. And I do a hit style workout. I have dumbbells I gotta eat like barbells. But I'll have at all I have access to this set of adjustable dumbbells and do calisthenics mixed in with some dumbbell work. And I do a certain hit style circuit workout. Play sweet. Daily, it takes me three, sometimes four days in between workouts to get in my next workout. You have any advice, any tips for me to improve my recovery so that I could possibly get a third workout and during the week? Again, I thank you so much for all that you do all your information. All and hope to hear your response. Thank you so much. Have a great day.

Philip Pape 12:21

All right, James, Thanks for leaving a voice message. It's really It's always great to hear directly from dedicated listeners like you, especially in your own voice. It's so cool. So as your question. First of all, I'm, I'm always going to route for someone like you who is committed to working out despite the challenges of being on the road with that kind of lifestyle as a truck driver, the schedule you have, you know, I imagine there's just a lot that interferes with having a typical, you know, routine, both on the nutrition and training side. And here's what I'm going to do for you. Okay, I'm going to answer two questions, I'm going to answer the direct one that you asked. And then I'm going to answer the one that I think you need to hear. Because I bet there are a lot of folks listening or watching who face a similar dilemma of managing recovery. And it's it affects everyone, but especially affects it affects us as we age, right? Those of us over 40 5060, whether you've been doing it a long time or not. There are limitations in a recovery just from the aging process. It's not an excuse, and there's ways to work around it. But we have to be cognizant of that when we think of what our bodies are capable of, and what stress load or capacity they have. And as well as what goal you're going for. So first, the actual question you asked the literal question is about improving recovery, and being able to train a third time each week because you train twice right now. And we're going to talk about your mode of training, which is focused on calisthenics and cardio. So it's effectively an endurance based style training. I know you're using dumbbells, and I realized that that is some level of resistance and load. You didn't however, mention specific program or plan of progression on those. So I'm going to assume they're more you said circuit based. So that's more like a p90x type of deal, which really is endurance, it's good for conditioning, and a little bit of initial strength build, but then it kind of plateaus quickly on the strength side, and it becomes mainly a form of just movement of activity. Okay. And you could already hear in the way that I'm framing this part of the question, where I'm gonna go with a second question and answer that you need to hear, but I'm not there yet. So the issue of recovery, slowing down is pretty common as we age as I mentioned, especially when we're de trained, you said you were getting back into it. So that implies that some lack of conditioning, you're deconditioned. And then these things are compounded by, by age, by the inconsistent schedule by the lack of routine. I'm not saying you don't have a routine, but I'm saying your lifestyle and your job may make that difficult, right? And all these sorts of life factors, sleep and so on. You might be doing too much too soon and just you gotten ahead of your ability to recover. And or you might not be engaging in the behaviors between your workouts needed to recover, right? A lot of what we do has nothing to do with the workout itself so much as what we're doing in between those workouts, which is what I get the sense for what you are asking. So let's start with nutrition, always, are you getting enough protein for for that muscle repair for holding on to that muscle? Again, even if we're not talking about strength training, per se, you know, we all need protein. And the older you get, the more you need, aiming for that, you know, point seven to one gram per pound of body weight. And are you getting enough carbs for energy and recovery, when you do a lot of what we call glycolytic activity, right, where glycogen is a primary source of fuel, like the cardio style that you're doing the hit style, carbs can be extremely beneficial. Before and after your workout, kind of around the workout, you can play with it. So don't be training fasted is when I'm going out with that. And then as a truck driver, you might have limited food options. So definitely get creative with portable, high protein snacks. I don't know if you have a refrigerator or ways to keep things cold in a cooler, because I always go to like Greek yogurt and cottage cheese. But then there's things like nuts and protein bars, protein shakes, jerky, all that kind of stuff. Also, are you eating enough? Overall, I should have asked that to begin with, are you even eating enough calories total, because if you're trying to, if you're in a fat loss phase, which you didn't specify, that's going to have a big impact on your recovery as well. And at least with my clients when we're in a fat loss phase, we're also strength training and we try to keep the cardio pretty reasonably low, it's mostly walking with maybe a little bit of medium intensity, maybe hit session thrown in but not much at all, because the priority is the lifting and holding on to the muscle. So if you're dieting right now, that could that will definitely have a big impact. And so just maybe spend some time in maintenance, recovering all of that and seeing if that helps you get that third session in hydration, or you hydrated, right? Again, being a truck driver, I don't know what you have access to if you're drinking a lot of caffeine or diuretics. But staying hydrated mineralizing your water with electrolytes, something as simple as salt and lemon juice, or you can get convenient powders that can go in there. Right. So hydration. Sleep is vital for all of this. I mean, honestly, I should have said that number one. Besides nutrition sleep is the most important thing when it comes to recovery. Getting enough quantity of sleep quality of sleep. If you have to sleep on your truck, man, I don't know what the situation is. But I'm gonna go for quiet. Cool, you know where sleep mask put stuff in your ears. There's even this cool mask I just started using called URENCO. It's like an electronic eyeball massager, eat an eyeball massager you can use earlier in the day to kind of call me down. So having a quiet sleep environment where there's absolutely no light coming in, is going to be vital. And then having enough sleep, of course, or fit in naps when you can. There's also the idea of active recovery, right? If your primary mode is cardio and endurance, then you really don't want to be doing that same thing on your rest days. So are you just taking it easy and just walking. And by taking it easy, I mean, you still want to walk and move and kind of stretch out especially if you're sitting in a car all day, and get that you know, 810 1000 Steps ish to stay recovered between your sessions. But you also don't want to compound your stress with more cardio. And so we're thinking of like your blood flow, we're thinking of your muscle recovery, we're thinking over digestion, all these things that are aided your gut health and so on, aided by just taking it easy, but but getting the steps in the workout intensity comes to mind as well. Okay, I don't know how your two day sessions look. But maybe they need to be different in the sense that one is like super high intensity one is more moderate. Right? It's kind of like the high intensity pushes the moderate maintains but allows recovery, we do the same thing with strength training with a like a high, medium, low, Heavy, Medium light structure with training where you go, you know, super high intensity, then you go medium, or then you go light, then you go medium, I'm kind of fumbling on my words, but you get the idea. The idea is, rather than put go all out on every session, which could sort of get ahead of your ability to recover, you go all out on one session, and then you dial it back for the second so that you can recover but maintain and then you're able to go out for a third session of maybe somewhere in between, right or maybe it's one high two mediums, something like that, or a high medium and even like a take it easy session where you're you're at least working out, but it's nowhere near the intensity of the other ones. Runners, for example, you know, can really beat themselves up if they're always going after distance or they're always going after speed. And so playing with the training variables, and then working in different cardio zones, you know, split up some zone twos versus the zone four or five with a hit can maybe benefit your recovery. post workout recovery when it's when you're talking cardio. I don't know if you particularly have any particular areas or spots that were used to be injured or you had surgery where you need to massage foam or or, you know, use a lacrosse ball, things like that. You know, I generally like for lifters, I don't worry about that too much unless they have very special circumstances. But those things can help recovery when you kind of warm up or massage out part of your body that you've just used a lot for that session. And then of course, listen to your body. Like if you need the three to four days of recovery. Your body is telling you that it needs that time, right? And so you don't want to get overtrained. You don't want to get injured. And I should have asked us at the beginning, but why do you need to work out a third time? Is it mental health, like if there's a reason you want to work out that has nothing to do with making some sort of gain or progress, there might be an alternative is where I'm going. Hey, this is Philip. And I hope you're enjoying this episode of Wits & Weights, I started Wits & Weights to help people who want to build muscle lose fat and actually look like they lift. I've noticed that when people improve their strength and physique, they not only look and feel better, they transform other areas of their life, their health, their mental resilience and their confidence in everything they do. And since you're listening to this podcast, I assume you want the same things the same success, whether you recently started lifting, or you've been at this for a while and want to optimize and reach a new level of success. Either way, my one on one coaching focused on engineering your physique and body composition is for you. If you want expert guidance and want to get results faster, easier, and with fewer frustrations along the way to actually look like you lift, go to wits & weights.com, and click on coaching, or use the link in my show notes to apply today. I'll ask you a few short questions to decide if we're a good fit. If we are, we'll get you started this week. Now back to the show.

Philip Pape 21:46

Now, here's the thing, I'm gonna give you the answer that I think you need to hear. Because based on what you shared about your current training, and the goals you're aiming for, which I think you mentioned gains in your audio message, right. And you listen to this show. So I assume, James that you want to get stronger. You want to build muscle you want improve your health, you want to prove your body composition, even your physique. And I'd strongly suggest moving away from calisthenics and circuit style training, to traditional strength training. Because I think that more than anything than anything I just told you, which are just kind of band aids on on the fact that you're already just doing hit style training, strength training more than anything will unlock the gains that I think you want and improve your recovery time. And they will still support your work capacity and your cardiovascular health. All right, and here's why. So let's talk about the very big principle underlying all of this muscle growth based on progressive overload. If you want hypertrophy, if you want gains, if you want to get stronger, you want to build muscle, you've got to have progressive overload, right? It's very straightforward with free weights. Now, if you don't have access to barbells, I get it. Dumbbells can still do the job as long as they can go up heavy enough. And if you're, you know, a typically strong guy with your truck driver, and you probably bigger guy, I don't know I'm making an assumption, maybe you're not doesn't matter. A male, there's a female, you probably need dumbbells or adjustable dumbbells that go up to 90 pounds, not just the 52 pound ones. So those aren't going to take you very far. So that's the kind of investment you gotta make, you got to make that choice and get those heavier dumbbells, right. And that'll give you a lot of runway to build some of that strength. You should also have some microplates, to put on those dumbbells so that you can progress in smaller increments where needed. And go ahead and just run a straight forward, you know, sets and reps across strength training program with dumbbells, like there's a million out there, I can point you to one you can, you know, reach out to me directly, we can follow up. But you're not going to do a circuit style training, you're going to do like three or four movements, probably a squat type movement, a press type movement, a hinge type movement, you know, pull type movement. And you can do that three days a week. And you're going to progress in weight over time. And that's how you're going to get stronger. And guess what, it's going to give you more time to recover. It's gonna be way less stressful on your body than these hit style workouts. You'll still build cardiovascular health because when you're lifting heavy, your heart rate goes up. And then you can walk the rest of the time. And you can still do a hit session or two in now I'm not saying you can't. Alright. Now if you can focus on compound movements, like we talked about, you know, squats, deadlifts, presses, it's more efficient with your time, right? It's not as much volume to impede your recovery, you're still gonna make big gains. And you can still do that with the dumbbells as long as they go heavy enough, right? I mean, there's other options like bands and TRX and stuff like that, but I definitely prefer the free weights. Another thing is that when you're training with, say, dumbbells or barbells, you can adjust your training load to manage your fatigue better and make sure you're not pushing beyond what your body can recover. I feel like when it comes to hit and cardio, we get in the zone or the endorphins are firing. You know, our heart rates up we go out And then before long, we don't realize we've actually maybe gone too hard for our recovery ability. Whereas I feel like with lifting you don't, you don't hit that same limit, you can manage it much easier, and then recover faster, and workout smarter. Alright. There's also the fact that if you lift, the three days a week is going to be no problem. I think, like, if you just lift weights, right HIIT sessions could beat you down, beat you up, the lifting sessions, especially when you're getting started, you're just building that initial strength, you can recover pretty quickly, you know, even at whatever age 5060 years old, okay. And that's going to be more beneficial than the high frequency nature of circuit training. Because it's going to provide your muscles the rest that they need to grow, I feel like the circuit training just tears them up. And then you go at it the next time, and you're just sore, but you're not actually building strength and muscle. What else? Let's see, I was going to talk about technique and stuff like that. But I mean, I don't want to get too detailed down the rabbit hole here. The other thing is free weight training, you know, strength training is very versatile, right, you can adjust all these training variables, sets, reps, rest, and programming itself, to work with your truck driving schedule and your recovery capacity. And then I alluded to before that strength training will increase your work capacity naturally. And you can still throw in a few short sessions of medium or high intensity cardio, if you need to increase your conditioning further, which is fine, like some people need to do that. And for others, just adding in a few extra 1000 steps of walking makes all the difference. I didn't, I didn't see details about your step count. But like if you're just doing the cardio, and then you never walk and you just sit all day in your truck, for example. That's another piece of it that could be impeding your recovery, which I kind of addressed when I talked about recovery days. So James, my man, I hope that you will shift your focus toward traditional freeway training, if possible, because I think that's going to yield you much better results in terms of hypertrophy, but also the Recovery Management you're looking for. I've had so many clients start with me, female and male who are just doing too much, and they're doing too much cardio, and we strip it all back, we go to a three day Full Body program, kind of like what I talked about in the first question today. And all of a sudden the stress comes down, the recovery goes up, they're able to eat better sleep more on and on and on kind of compounds on itself. Now, this isn't to say that what you've been doing isn't beneficial. So I don't want to be like, No, you need to stop doing that. But I know when you ask a question like this, for this show, you're looking for a little bit of guidance a little bit, a little bit of coaching, and I'm trying to provide that because I went through a lot of this myself. I did CrossFit for eight years. I've said that many times. And yeah, my conditioning was okay, but nothing else was where I wanted it. And it wasn't until I started lifting weights with progressive overload, that I started to make progress. And so given your goals, what are your goals, a pivot could be what you need to unlock what you've been striving for him, right? Let's think about working out differently. Let's think about optimizing your sessions for the gains you're looking for, and the recovery you're looking for, rather than trying to fit another day of what you're already beating yourself up with, into your already packed schedule. All right, keep up the hustle, James, keep it up. And, you know, please check in again, I want you to check in again. And send me another message with an update on your progress. You know, a few weeks from now, like whatever it makes sense, take action, whatever it is, if it's if it's continuing to do what you're doing, but getting smarter with all the things we talked about nutrition and rest and everything, and walking, go for it. If it's strength training, go for it either way, let me know how it goes. Alright, our last question today is from Facebook. So we're covering all the bases today. And this is from Ryan P. And Ryan says, quote, lately, I've been wanting to learn more about hybrid training. For a long time I only lifted no cardio. Now I'm doing both. And I'm wondering best how to balance them, as I sometimes feel that I'm spinning my wheels trying to make serious progress in both areas simultaneously. And I responded to him on Facebook and I said, Look, this is gonna be an awesome question. And I'm looking forward to answering it. But I wanted to make sure I got this right. When you say you're trying to make serious progress in both areas, simultaneously, that that is that is what the question is centered on it is not just, hey, I want to lift and maybe throwing cardio, it sounds like he really wants to make progress in both. Now we didn't go into details beyond that. I don't know if it's, if you're a competitor and endurance athlete, you know, if it's Ironman Triathlon, that kind of thing, Spartan, you know, whatever, and then you also want to lift, but I think the the advice I'm gonna give you today, the answer I'm gonna give will still be applicable. Alright. And this is a fantastic question, because it's very common. It's a very common dilemma today, because I think a lot of lifters are looking to incorporate more cardio into their routine, but they don't want to sacrifice strength and muscle gains, right. And this idea of hybrid training or concurrent training, it's sometimes called is is about finding the right balance between resistance training and cardiovascular work, so that you have the complete package for your training. Now there are there are some myths that persist one of those is the interference effect. Now there is some truth to the interference effect, the idea that if you do a certain amount of cardio, it will interfere with your recovery and the adaptation from lifting and thus interfere with your gains. But what we've come to find over the years is that it requires a significant amount of cardio to do that. And so there's a large tolerance of cardio that we can handle just fine as lifters. And I'm going to talk about a little bit here how there are even benefits to having cardio for recovery, as a lifter, mainly in getting your cardiovascular health, your work capacity up to snuff up to a certain level. And there are I've had clients, it's very interesting, they're super muscular, they've been training many years. And, but their cardiovascular fitness isn't quite there. So it's a kind of huff and puff in some of the longer workouts, they might not be able to get all the reps. And we just and it turns out that they're only getting 3000 Subs a day, because they have a desk job. And we upped that to six or seven and all of a sudden, boom, resting heart rate comes down, you know, HRV improves, you know, their zone two is is tolerable, and on and on. And that's all it takes. Other people need a little bit more than that. Okay. The key, though, is not to overdo it. And so here's here's my thoughts for you, Ryan. All right. First, what is your primary goal? Like? And I know, I know, you've probably thought that as well. Others have told you this. But you've got to decide which aspect of fitness is more important to you, at the moment, not for your whole life. Just at the moment like by at the moment, I mean, the next three, three months, the next six months, the next year. And I like to face things I like to face Tuesday. I like to face nutrition, I like to face training, even cardio. So in your case, you want to decide what is your goal right now? Do you want to gain muscle? Do you wanna improve cardiovascular health? Do you want to achieve fat loss? Do you want to perform an endurance competition, and then this is going to dictate how you prioritize your training, right? It doesn't mean neglecting one for the other. But understanding which one takes precedent because then you can say, Okay, I've got to set everything off for success for that one thing. And then see what capacity I have left are the other things. It's like, if you have, you can't have 10 of your favorite hobbies that you're doing all the time. You know, unless you unless you don't work or something, but you can't have like, Okay, I like woodworking. And I like, you know, playing video games, and I like playing music and I liked you know, snowboarding and I like this. And this, this is, and you're not going to do all 10 of those things, like almost every day of the week, right, you're gonna pick one that you go through a phase of learning and growing at, and the others you kind of maintain, and then you switch to another one, maybe you can do two at once, but then you're not doing them optimally, you get what I'm saying. So there's a first of all, if lifting is your priority, I would just say hey, lifting is my priority. And I'm going to incorporate strategic cardio, this is what I would do for that I would have low intensity, steady state cardio, okay, this could be biking, for example. And I would do those on your non lifting days or a few hours after your strength training, it's much less likely to interfere, no matter when you do it to be honest, and it can help with blood flow and recovery and work capacity. So I'm cool with that. So two, three, maybe even four of those sessions for 20 minutes, 30 minutes, something like that. Or if you need an hour long session, you know, have fewer of them. And then high intensity interval training if you prefer that. So there's different different schools of thought on this. One school of thought is do it the same day as your lifting session, right after your lifting, but not on a leg day. So like if it's a leg based hit, do it on a non leg day. So that you're kind of doing it in between the leg days and not interfering with the leg workout on the adaptation. But you're also not interfering with overall recovery. By putting it on a rest day you're putting it on after another lifting session, or putting it sufficiently spaced out like 234 hours spaced out if you lift in the morning to hit in the evening, right? Although I don't like high intensity exercise too late in the day, because I interfere with sleep and stress, cortisol everything else. Alright, anyway. So I think I just rambled on. But basically, if you want to have one or two high intensity training sessions, I think that's fine. I think more than that is too much when your priority is lifted. Now, if you want to use periodization, what I would do is structure your training in cycles. So you might focus more on lifting with minimal cardio for a few months, then switch to pre period where the cardio is the the precedence, right. And now instead of like for lifting days and two cardio days you might have for cardio days into lifting days, and the lifting days or just for strength maintenance, you have just the amount of volume needed to maintain, which studies have shown can be as little as a fourth or a fifth, the amount of volume just to maintain your muscles. So you're not trying to make any any progress on your gains. You're just holding on to your progress. And then you're focusing on the cardio, right? So periodization is a great strategy. Nutrition, of course, you're going to have to optimize that but generally it's not going to differ too much unless We're talking about a competition like an endurance competition where you need to carb load and kind of lower the protein, increase the carbs as you get closer to the event. Other than that, keep the protein high, make sure you're eating enough calories, make sure you have carbs to to refuel your energy storage of glycogen, getting plenty of sleep, you know, keep the rest days in there. This is why I like having cardio sometimes on the same day as you're lifting but spaced apart, so that you have full rest days where all you're doing is just walking. Okay? Also monitor all the things like monitor all the things that you want to track, and then adjust. And so if you're a data nerd, like me, I would go all out with all the things that you need, based on what your priority is at that moment. So whether it's strength levels, or your, you know, your body composition, how you feel your biofeedback, if you're an endurance data nerd, you want to look at your zone, what zone, you're in your resting heart rate, your HRV, all that stuff. And then if you notice the progress stalling on the thing that you care about right now, then that's a sign that something's off, right. And then there's also experimenting with different schedules. So despite everything I just said, you said that you're struggling to do both simultaneously. I suspect you're just doing too much. And you're not focusing on one over the other, like we talked about. But you may also want to move things around. So think about your schedule, and see both Should I lift and do cardio in the morning at night, on different days, on the same days, like try different permutations of those, see how your body responds because your life schedule, your work, your family obligations, your stress, your sleep, your food schedule, all of that are going to be tightly interwoven with your training approach. So it's a lot I know. And I kind of tried to answer a bunch of stuff all in one answer. But hopefully that gives you a good idea of how to balance and gives you ideas to balance both. Long story short, prioritize one goal at a time, be strategic, it takes longer to build muscle than to build conditioning. So unless you have a competition that you're going after, I would mostly prioritize building muscle, but then periodized in periods of the conditioning, the endurance, and then when you're doing that you can maintain your muscle. So there you go. Alright, hope that answers your question. That's all we have for questions today. That was three big meaty questions from from everywhere. And if you want your question answered in an upcoming q&a, I would say the best way to do that is either not either join our Wits, & Weights, Facebook community, it'll be one of the best decisions you ever made, because it's totally free. And we do live q&a is in there. There are masterclasses tons of resources a supportive community, right? We announce things we give you early releases of podcasts, episodes, things like that. So join the free Wits & Weights community. You can however, also send me a message on IG at Wits & Weights, look for both links in the show notes. Alright, in our next episode 149 Four surprising ways to lose that midlife belly fat with Megan Dolman making those awesome. I mean, she and I had such a great talk we actually recorded on each other's shows because it just it's such good chemistry. She's, she's amazing. And I like how she treats this topic. It's a fun and you know, frustrating topic. For many of you, especially many of you women, it's the topic of belly fat, especially in women over 40. And she gives it an evidence based treatment that I very much appreciate. You know, we're going to separate fact from fiction, you're going to learn about the physiological and hormonal changes that affect belly fat, right, the visceral, more dangerous fat around your organs. Megan will share four surprising but evidence based strategies for reducing belly fat, and she's gonna give you that confidence to tackle with what's called the midlife fluffing top whether you're looking to enhance your health or physique or just better understand your body. As always, stay strong. And I'll talk to you next time here on the Wits. & Weights podcast.

Philip Pape 38:57

Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights, please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong.

Philip Pape 2/16/24 Philip Pape 2/16/24

Ep 147: A Brand New Way to Workout at Home with Josh York

Philip talks with Josh York, the dynamic founder and CEO of GYMGUYZ, a mobile in-home fitness training provider with over 150 locations across 30 states and three countries. Discover the journey behind GYMGUYZ's rise to a global fitness brand and their unique in-home training model. You'll learn about Josh’s intense personal health regimen and how he balances everything, his views on the fitness industry, and practical strategies in the world of strength training, building muscle, and optimizing your fitness.

How did Josh York transform a simple idea at his parents’ dining room table into a global fitness phenomenon? What practical strategies can you learn from Josh about strength training, muscle building, and fitness optimization?

Today, Philip (@witsandweights) talks with Josh York, the dynamic founder and CEO of GYMGUYZ, a mobile in-home fitness training provider with over 150 locations across 30 states and three countries.

Discover the journey behind GYMGUYZ's rise to a global fitness brand and their unique in-home training model. You'll learn about Josh’s intense personal health regimen and how he balances everything, his views on the fitness industry, and practical strategies in the world of strength training, building muscle, and optimizing your fitness.

From a simple idea at his parents' dining room table, Josh catapulted GYMGUYZ into an international fitness phenomenon, featured on the Inc. 500’s list of fastest-growing private companies. His journey has redefined the fitness landscape with GYMGUYZ's innovative mobile in-home training model, bringing personalized fitness solutions to your doorstep.

Josh also has what some might call an insane daily routine, sleeping just 4-5 hours a night, with a rigorous 4 am workout followed by a sauna session and a 27-degree cold plunge. As a motivational speaker and author, Josh lives a life fueled by passion and purpose, inspiring others with his journey and embodying the ethos of pushing boundaries and reimagining possibilities.

Today, you’ll learn all about:
2:21 Creating GYMGUYZ and the concept behind it
6:22 How to get started
7:48 Strength training, programming, equipment
11:00 Where is it available
11:20 Personal routine including sleep as the "enemy"
15:16 Your workout/nutrition, general philosophy of fitness
19:25 Consistency, motivation, staying positive
23:27 Balancing personal/business
28:05 Opinions on the fitness industry now and into the future
31:24 How to connect with Josh
31:47 Outro

Episode resources:

Josh's podcast: Fuel Your Drive podcast
Website: gymguyz.com
Instagram: @gymguyz
Youtube: @Gymguyz
Facebook: @GYMGUYZ

Episode summary:

As the fitness industry continues to expand and evolve, it becomes increasingly clear that the conventional gym experience isn't the only path to achieving physical fitness and wellness. One trailblazer in the industry, Josh York, has taken a distinctive approach to fitness, proving that innovation, combined with unwavering dedication and discipline, can not only lead to personal success but also create a global fitness empire.

Josh York's story is nothing short of inspiring. He transformed his passion for fitness into a business model that has revolutionized the way people exercise. By establishing GYMGUYZ, a mobile in-home training service, York identified a unique niche – providing tailored workouts to individuals in the comfort of their own homes. The company's growth is a testament to the viability of this concept, proving that convenience and customization are highly sought after in today's fast-paced world.

One of the most striking aspects of York's journey is his personal routine, which speaks volumes about his commitment to fitness and discipline. Rising before the sun at 4 AM and limiting sleep to only a few hours a night might seem extreme to some, but for York, it's all part of his philosophy of pushing the limits and setting the standard for the level of dedication he believes is necessary to achieve greatness. This routine is not merely about physical strength but also about mental toughness and resilience, traits that are invaluable for any entrepreneur.

York's approach to leadership within the fitness industry is also noteworthy. He embodies the 'first in, last out' philosophy, earning him not just respect but also credibility as a fitness leader. This principle extends to his belief that to inspire and lead others effectively, one must practice what they preach. His leadership style emphasizes the importance of being a role model and maintaining the highest standards of personal fitness and professional conduct.

The conversation on the podcast delves into the future of the fitness industry, including the role of social media influencers and the potential integration of AI in personal fitness. York's insights into these trends highlight the importance of authentic, lifestyle-focused solutions over transient fads. As the industry progresses, it's apparent that the most successful fitness brands will be those that can offer genuine, long-term value to their clients.

Aspiring entrepreneurs and fitness enthusiasts alike will find invaluable lessons in York's story. His blend of passion, perseverance, and a strategic mindset exemplifies what it takes to not only succeed in the fitness industry but to create a movement that redefines it. For those looking to follow in his footsteps or explore opportunities with GYMGUYZ, York's journey offers both motivation and a blueprint for success.

In a world where the pursuit of wellness is more prevalent than ever, the innovative approach of GYMGUYZ stands out. Josh York's story is a powerful reminder that with the right mindset, discipline, and innovative thinking, it's possible to turn a simple idea into a flourishing business that changes lives and shapes the future of an entire industry.

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Transcript

Josh York 00:00

You need to move. No one's gonna be moving for you. The only one who moves is yourself. And if you think some pair of goggles or something's gonna change your life, it's not you got to work out, right like sometimes, you know, look, if it's not broken, don't fix it like people are trying to reinvent like the basics of like working out and exercise. Sometimes sticking the basics is all you need to do to get great results. It's really not that it's like this is not rocket science. It's pretty simple, you know.

Philip Pape 00:24

Josh York 02:18

Oh, thanks very much, Philip. I appreciate having me on the show. Yeah, man. So

Philip Pape 02:21

let's just get right into the whole gym guys. Concept, how you started it, expanded it? Well, we'll learn about you along the way. But I know folks are like, what is this if they've never heard of it? And how did you build it? What kind of resistance did you get along the way?

Josh York 02:35

Yes, so I started this in my parents dining room in 2008. Started with the laptop and the vision and the vision has always been to be the largest fitness brand in the world. And we are the largest in home. And onsite personal training, let alone personal training company in the world. And soon we will be the largest fitness brand in the world are continuing to grow rapidly. big year for us. 2023, we opened up new locations, over 203 new cities we expanded into this year and next year, we're going to double that. So very exciting time for us. But for me, I've always been a trainer, loved helping people love changing lives. But being a personal trainer, I always like to say it's just like being a doctor, a doctor without patients is unemployed. And a trainer without clients is unemployed, I used to always say how can I make money when I'm not working? But, you know, the problem is a lot of people who are in the personal training space don't realize, like, they're very, you know, short term, they don't think long term. So they look at it, you know, because honestly, you know, till we've like created this personal training has always been like a job, you know, you can't really make a real strong career out of it. Unless you get into like, you know, Well, honestly, not even if you get into the celebrity stuff side of it, because you're gonna have an expiration date. And I tell everybody that we've created a career path year where people start as trainers for time go to full time become territory managers, area managers, general managers, then franchise owners, but how it'll happen was, I was training pretty much out of high school. I started in high school and I was doing very well very, very well. I was making high six figures as a personal trainer and I gave it all up to take a $30,000 marketing job, because that's what I was taught, you know, you go to school and you get a nine to five job and I'll never forget that first day I walked into that office. The negative energy was literally pouring down the walls. It was just horrible. Everyone's miserable. Everyone hates Mondays Wednesdays a little bit better. And today, people are bouncing off the walls right and if you if you live for two days a week for the rest of your life I'm telling you right now you are broken and you better figure something out because you need to be happy with what you do. And I said you know what, I can't do this anymore. I gotta go back into fitness. I always figure things out. There's always a way every no always gets me closer to a yes and started building up my clients again, right. I gave up all my clients. So I had to start from scratch and one of my clients at the time came in late and said Joshua Washington come to my house. They Just don't have any equipment. I was like, wow, this is like the most simplest idea. No one has ever professionalized this service. No one's ever franchised it. I'm gonna do it got a van stocked with enough equipment to provide you a fantastic workout. 365 days a year backed by our three C's convenient, customized and creative workouts came up with the name Jim guys is an acronym for get you motivated. Goals uniquely yours is zero excuses. The band started out white eventually went to red Red's our color and said I'm gonna go out there and service clients and started driving up and down the expressway and slowly but surely started getting calls and the demand was incredible. Got another band got another van. So our franchising in 2014. We are now franchising once March hits, we'll be franchising now. March 2, I'm gonna be officially sold our first franchise but soon as soon as January one hits will be 10 years we've been franchising. And today we are the largest in home and on site, personal training company in the world. And we service over 1000s of cities, we're in multiple countries, we'll be expanding into more countries this year. We're in 30 states and rapidly growing, and super exciting. And that's kind of how it started. And that's where we are today.

Philip Pape 06:08

Yeah, so what I take from that as you love what you do, for sure, you're super passionate about and I'm assuming you bring that energy to the business, and then it percolates down to the people taking advantage of this with the red vans coming to your doorstep. So I know a lot of folks like myself haven't really heard of the, at the actual model in their thinking, what is this? Right? Because we usually have a few options, we either go to a gym, and you hear people complain all the time, like the commute and the culture of the gym, you know, especially women with the intimidation factor of the gym, sometimes, maybe there's not one near them, or they often don't have power racks and things that they need for like a good workout. Then you have Well, I live in an apartment, I don't have much space, you know, I can't build out the gym in my house, or I don't have the money to afford it. So it sounds like this fills a big gap that I hadn't even thought of and like you said, it's a simple idea. But those are sometimes the best ones. Right? Nobody's serving. So tell us about the specific concept. How does it work? How does it you know what's unique? Just from the time somebody looks you guys up so they get their training session done? Yeah, absolutely. So the

Josh York 07:06

first visit we always give out is free. So they're gonna get three assessments, a body assessment, nutritional assessment and assessment, learn more about themselves, we're gonna obviously get some information about themselves, take some initial measurements, go through, you know, their fat, skeletal muscle, visceral fat, BMI, so on and so forth. That's done through our high tech body analysis machine, we use that we go through nutrition, we do have a whole nutritional platform. And also meals as well if clients are interested in that, and we put them through a fitness evaluation, where we test them in 15 different categories based upon that we then customize the program for each person and get them get them going. And that's what it's all about. And I always say it's great to make a living much better to make a difference. We are in the business of changing lives and helping people and we love we love it. We love what we do.

Philip Pape 07:47

So what if somebody says okay, I, I specifically want to do these kinds of workouts, right? I want to I want to work on the big lifts, right? Or I want to use progressive overload with with certain like a bodybuilding style programming Do you offer the programming is a custom programming, is it templates? Do you work with others programs and bring the equipment like how does that all work? Yeah, so

Josh York 08:06

it's all custom, everything's custom. You know, you know, the majority of our clients, you know, are not body builders, right. Like, we don't have many body builders, as clients, you know, the majority of our clients are people who are looking to increase their fitness, their lifestyle, be healthy living, healthy living, live a healthy lifestyle, excuse me, you know, build some nice, lean muscle tone. But then again, we do have you know, sometimes when clients come on, they want to, you know, get stronger, but we do that too. But people don't realize, like, you know, health is not just about lifting heavy weights, right helps being overall healthy and fit, right, like, can you run a mile? You know, can you go up the stairs and are huffing and puffing? Can you also do an exercise for 1520 reps and, and build that muscle endurance? You know, there's so there's lots of different avenues of what it takes to really be a fit individual. But we're creating a healthy lifestyle for people and that's what we do.

Philip Pape 08:53

Okay, yeah, I really want to get more specific, though, man. Like, if someone Someone wants to live, they do want to lift weights, and they do want to do you know, get overall fit? What is the equipment look like? Like? I'm just trying to imagine how does it come out of the van? How does it get constructed? Like, what does it look like we have,

Josh York 09:08

we have 365 pieces of equipment or vehicle everything's from dumbbells, weights, body bores, pool equipment, isometrics, Plyometrics, boxing equipment, agility, pilates, you name it, everything's in that vehicle, you know, we have barbells, cambered, bars, everything, there's enough weight in there to do whatever you want to do, right? So all that's there and obviously, based on the workout and based on what you're doing that day, based on the customized program that we're giving you is no template, everything's customized to us. You know, we're going to then obviously provide you that workout for that day and then take our stuff and be on our way and come back for the next workout and get you on your next workout. So it's, you know, it's very, very, very obsessively detailed, right, like I'm OCD guy, make sure we provide ourselves with excellent customer service. Our net promoter score has never dropped below 90 in the history of our company. I don't know if a lot of the viewers are familiar with the Net Promoter Score, but the NPS score is a score rated by to consumer anything over 5150 is considered like world class one of the top scorers out there is Ritz Carlton. They're like a 74 we have literally never dropped below 90 in the history of the company. So we really, you know, pride ourselves in providing not just, you know, convenience, but great customer service. It's very, very important to us.

Philip Pape 10:16

Right? Okay. Yeah. So if so you'd have right like, you'll bring your set up a rack and everything for bench presses and stuff like that

Josh York 10:22

we would bench presses, we're usually doing dumbbells, or, you know, we're not doing you know, no one is a gym guys, client bench and 500 pounds, you know, so some of the facilities we do work in have obviously that equipment there. But then, you know, we have, you know, obviously experienced certified personal trainers, so they can be going dumbbell presses, they can be doing straight bar presses, super setting with dumbbell presses, they're gonna be throwing in push ups in there, like, trust me when I tell you, you put up any tough, heavy, strong individual, they'll go through a gym guys workout, oh, they're going to be worked. Let me tell you, and they will be blown away. How challenging and also how rewarding it seems.

Philip Pape 10:59

Yeah. Now folks listening to this show. Are there all over the world? Where do you serve us? So

Josh York 11:05

we serve as the United States, Canada and the United Kingdom? Okay.

Philip Pape 11:08

And you're like in a lot of the big cities are, how hard is it find you guys.

Josh York 11:13

You already have the big cities pretty much true. Coast to coast. Yeah. Cool.

Philip Pape 11:17

All right. Yeah. That was curious about that. What about your personal routine? Because I know a lot of people are interested in that, right? Yeah, my

Josh York 11:23

routine changed since I'm 16 years old, never changed. Never. I am literally so dialed in. I can't be touched. I'm literally I'm the greatest in the world. That's what I believe. I believe I'm unstoppable. You should believe the same thing. Everyone should be the same thing. But I literally take the same step at the same set at the same time, every single day. And I never miss I don't get sick. I don't believe in sickness. That's not for me. I'm just I'm just on a different level when it comes to being mentally tough. And my routine doesn't change them up every day at 329. No matter what some days, I do get up earlier, like last week, I got up at 125. So I had a call in the UK that five hours ahead at 7:30am calls at 230 call. But I'm up every day at 329 Like clockwork, first thing I do, I literally go right into my ice bath. I've been doing this since I'm literally 1617 years old 27 degrees, I go right in for three minutes I come out, you know, wash up, you know, eat a little bit something, get my workout in workout. And then a day I'm used to doing you know, some type of intense cardio, followed by a sauna or if I'm not doing the sauna that day. I'm just you know, doing my cardio, and then I'm coming back home getting ready. I'm at my my building, usually around seven to 715 in the morning and you know, cranking away and you know, putting in about 1617 hours a day and do it all over the next day.

Philip Pape 12:34

So where did the self discipline come from? You said it was since the time you were 16? Because I'm sure there's a lot of people listening to like, well, I don't have that inherently. How do I develop it? Or how can I least change my identity? My mindset to have that, you

Josh York 12:46

gotta You have to want it. It's very simple. You know, I used to do crazy things. Here's the bottom line look, normal doesn't work. If you're a normal, it's just never going to work. The only thing that does work is not normal, right? I am there's nothing about me that's not normal. And if you want to, you know, become successful and spend your time around, successful people, they just move faster, talk faster and faster. That's that's just a fact. Just a fact. But um, I've always wanted to be in shape. I always wanted to be like, just out of control and in incredible shape. And I used to just, you know, I think about what I used to do back in the day, I used to get up literally when I had nothing to do all day and I would bike almost four miles to the gym every day at the crack of dawn, like so I've been doing this like my whole life. And I just I don't know, I just see it with me like when I believe I'm number one. That's what I believe. And I always believe in number one. No one's better than me. That's what I believe. So I've always like had this like thing, this game I always played myself that I have to be number one everywhere. Like even in school back in the day. I had to be number one to go out to recess I had to be number one to get to lunch, like so when I get to the workout. I mean, number one to be there. Like no one can be there before me. I before I got to swim in my home, I used to play this game with myself that when I was in there, I couldn't leave until I was the last person standing. So if someone came in, like in sometimes I was dying in there. I'd be like, you know, sir, you know how much time you have left? Highlands? Well, I once literally made this guy step outside for one second so that I could leave, because I wouldn't leave. But like that's like that's the level of what it takes. Like if you want to achieve great things. You have to be on a whole nother level have a mindset like like just a mindset that is just to most people. Some people might even be listening to that, man, this guy's crazy. And you're damn right. I am crazy. There's nothing normal about me. Like I said, normal doesn't work. And if you cannot get comfortable being uncomfortable and putting yourself through pain every day like suffering, you're not going to go anywhere in life. Because trust me when I tell you the easy way will never pay you well, it's never going to happen. The only way that pays is the hard way. And if you think it's going to be hard to do to do what you want to do. It's going to be a lot harder than you think it's going to be try like 700,000 times harder. It's a very painful experience and when you put yourself through challenging moments and suffering times and do that on a consistent basis like people work out I work out like my Sprint's alone would put your property in a hospital. Like I do things that probably 99.9% of people would not do. Just want to do it. But I do that because that's what makes me unstoppable. And that's what gives me that edge. And that's what I believe. Let

Philip Pape 15:16

me ask you, how does this permeate your business, like down to the personal trainer, and even to your clients? Because now I'm wondering man, people listening to this is like, holy shit this guy, like, if you're in the top point, 00 1%. Man, how do I get at least a 1%? You know, a lot of people are floundering, right? How does that permeate the culture? And how do you get people motivated? Yeah,

Josh York 15:34

good leaders will always create other good leaders. I was just giving this example a couple of weeks ago, I went to this doctor, because I was trying to find a new doctor, right, I can get some up, I want to get my blood drawn. And you know, I was wearing a hoodie, he couldn't tell I guess I was in shape. And he's telling me about how important it is to be in shape. This guy's belly was so far out that he couldn't probably need to see his feet. Now, does that make any sense to you? That someone like that is trying to preach how important it is to work out? And you look like that? And you're preaching

Philip Pape 16:05

to the choir when it comes to doctors, all these? Oh, yeah, so that makes zero

Josh York 16:08

sense. Okay, that makes zero sense. If you want to be a good leader, you better walk it and you better talk it. I'm the first one in and I'm the last one out every single day, I always the last everyone who's before me, okay, I go above and beyond because I'm a leader. And that's what I do. And if you want to be a good leader, you better be a good leader, if you can motivate, inspire your team and get them fired up and get them to keep moving and stay driven. Because you think it's all sunshine and rainbows there are so there is so much pain involved in growing a brand. We're not talking about a business like this is we built a brand, like when you're growing a brand, there is so much involved, if you are not on top of your game, you're not gonna win.

16:53

The most value that I got from this was the fact that I had someone that I could talk to about anything, and that there was going to be no judgement, it was just Well, here are your goals, here's the best way that you're going to achieve it. And then let's work together to help you feel inspired and motivated to do that. And a lot of people out there trying to be coaches, and not all of them have done the work and also just be a genuine person that is positive. And coming from the heart in terms of wanting to help and Philip really embody all of those qualities, I would recommend him to just about anyone that's looking to achieve goals in that realm of their nutrition and building new habits.

Philip Pape 17:38

People who do your workouts, do they get this kind of intensity?

Josh York 17:41

Not everybody, you know, not everybody, not everybody obviously knows me. But you know, my, you know, some of my original clients that I used to train I haven't trained in over a decade are still trained to this date. But you know, look, I am on on another level percent of what I what I am, you're going to be in a very, very good position. But you know, people, you know, people say, Oh, it's not possible. Listen, let me tell you something, it just by you saying that it's not possible. Exactly right, tell you anything is possible. You can do whatever the hell you want to do, as long as you put your mind to it. And you believe that your belief must be so strong that it overpowers everything else because the problem is, most of you people are listening to people. Like he could even be your own mother or father giving you advice when they haven't done what you're trying to do. So why are you taking advice from someone who hasn't done what you're trying to do? It doesn't work. Sometimes that could be the worst advice ever. You have to be the believer because when I started this, you know many people laughed in my face. I could sit here for hours telling you how many trainers I went through before I kept one longer than three months over 60 All you people listening guarantee would do a quit after the 10th one, maybe even a fifth one. Because the majority of people are weak and soft, and fooled by cheap chairs and quit. And the next day could be the day that changes everything. But you give up. It's very simple. If you want to win, it's a game. You got to play the game and the one who plays the game longer stays in the game is one who's always going to win.

Philip Pape 19:10

Yeah, yeah, I heard something yesterday on I don't know if it's unimpacted or whatever. The guy said, you know, if you can't you must kind of came to mind when you said that. Right? Like, first of all, if you think you can, and you say it, of course you're not gonna be able to do it. But anything you can if you play the game, so, men, yeah, you're intense. You're an intense guy. I'm sure you get this. And I don't know, you know, everybody likes different communication styles and personalities. So I'm just trying to kind of kind of keep with you on that level. Tell us a little more on the practical side because the people listening I mean, I'm sure there's entrepreneurs out there and I know you've got a big franchise model and everything but this is more for you know, people just trying to improve their fitness trying to live to eat better, all that. A little more nuts and bolts about kind of your routine or what do you think works well for most people, when you think about your client base and what you guys recommend through gym guys, maybe start started with nutrition. You

Josh York 19:56

know, look, if someone's trying to achieve a goal You gotta just do it right, everyone's waiting for like this perfect moment and like, your fitness is what I believe to anchor to everything in your life, right? Like, couldn't be very successful and have all the money in the world and be a fat animal, you're not successful, okay? You can be, you know, in shape, have all the money in the world and they're horrible relationships and not successful. Like you need to have all three of those components. You need to be able to have money to be, you know, to have that success, have great relationships and be in shape. Because let me tell you something, I've seen people driving around in Ferraris, and they come out and look horrible. Like, I wouldn't trade my life for them for anything like I don't care like I would, I just wouldn't. Like you gotta have all three of those variables. But look, it's very simple, like people overcomplicate this crap. You know, eat protein, every meal, right? Have a carbohydrate, bounce it out, have a color have a vegetable, like people think you need to eat like that all the time. It's called the 8020 rule. You won't even get crazy go 7030 You're still gonna look better than everybody else. But like, tonight, I'm going out to dinner. I'm gonna have my well done chicken parm, I have probably three baskets of bread. I'll have my rigatoni Lavaca. Dude, I like this all the time. But is it every day? No, but I do it pretty much weekly. And I'm rich I got a six pack I'm in great shape. tip top shape. It's about balance right like people like when you think you have to eat salads every single meal and starve yourself like look fasting there there is some very good you know components to fasting I'm I do it myself. But the bottom line is like it's just about consistency and being disciplined. That's the problem. You know, if you want to start, start slow, right, just start with some small steps like just move your body, start getting like 10,000 steps a day to start, that's not hard to do. Make sure every meal like look, if I'm gonna have like a pizza because I want a pizza, I would never have it for a meal, it has to be after a meal like because all my meals are always protein. Same rules apply. If you're gonna have a cheat meal, and you want to go crazy, make sure it's protein, make sure it's like a chicken dish or it's a state issue. It's got any protein, don't just get like a pasta dish. Make sure this chicken in there, make sure the steak in there. That's the rule of thumb. Yep, nutrition is very important. Also, make sure you hydrate right like I drink this water every single day. But we will also make another mistake. Water does not hydrate you water with Himalayan salt or salt extolled electrolytes. If you take salt, like I have salt in there, right now you sprinkle little salt in there, my store container. I don't know if everyone's seen this video. But literally, I think a pitcher that every single day, and I pop it right into my water, because that's what really hydrates you. But these are things you learn over time. But if you want to become a better individual, move your body every day and start with that. And trust me, you want to be successful in life. And let me tell you something, working out is what's going to give you that discipline because what really defines you as a person is how disciplined you are. Because people are getting ready to have these No, these leads nonsense New Year's resolutions, New Year's resolutions are the biggest joke in the world, to be honest with you, you want to have a resolution fine, but you should be having them all the time, quarterly monthly, weekly, not just once a year, because New Year's resolutions die all the time. It's about setting those goals, and you got to do it when you don't want to do it. And you got to act like you love it. Man,

Philip Pape 23:12

there's a lot of good stuff in there. And I would say I agree with 100% of it. Especially the you know, the flexible dieting we talked about all the time. And you mentioned 8020 7030 I mean, the average American is is like 3070 You know the other direction like 70% processed food, right? And starting with one small step, you know, working out giving you discipline, you know, we talked about that too, all the time, just whatever it is the the commitment that it takes to do that. And the fact that you're controlling how your body is changing, right, and you're putting something hard on yourself and seeing it change, you know, your muscles and so on leads to discipline in other areas. So what I'm wondering about you mentioned, fitness isn't non negotiable, you need it in unlocks everything else, you wouldn't want a lot of money if you're not going to live long and you're gonna be you know, fat, you wouldn't want terrible relationships, but with a lot of money. So how do you how do you what is the balance between those and I hate to use that word because sometimes it really is not so much balance as you're just going after it all the time and it changes but what's your thought on that? It's

Josh York 24:06

very simple, right? You need to do all of it. Right? It's look, first of all, there's no such thing as balance but to like equal them all out. Look, I'll give you an example. I was having a conversation with someone the other day. Okay, you know that ice cream thing that ninja creamy

Philip Pape 24:22

ninja creamy. I don't know that man. Okay,

Josh York 24:26

so there's a really good good cheat code here. Okay, you could pretty much make ice cream. You know pretty much you make ice cream in this ninja creamy okay, you get like so a protein shake pour it in there. Put like some

Philip Pape 24:39

Oh, this is Oh, this is this is an appliance yeah creamy. Okay, got it. Got it. Got it. Yeah, just to

Josh York 24:43

give you like, like when you talk about like making changes. You could you could pour it in their freezers overnight then on freezing you mix it in a stain you go put like an Oreo or two in there. Let's say the things probably 300 calories. Okay for like I'm talking like a nice size. You get that same The size of like a Haagen Dazs that's probably like 2700 calories. That's a small change you like hamburgers, soda, why? Okay, go to McDonald's, get a hamburger, or come to my grill and get a hamburger, right? Because they'll have it on a bun, you can still have the same hamburger, you still have same Geez, it's not saturated butter, you can make different choices, you can put some healthy vegetables on there. It's about making small changes, that that your foods can still taste amazing. And you can enjoy it. So that's how you kind of balance that area on fitness. It's a non negotiable, you know, like, God wants you to take your clothes off and stare yourself and tell me if you like how the way you look. Because I love the way I look when I'm naked. And you should love the way you look. But how do you do that? By exercising? It's it's it's it's how you represent yourself. Like, when someone when you walk in there, like when I walk in the room. I demand presence. I don't even say a word. It's just the way I look. It's the energy that comes from me, it's my confidence. That's because I know I'm the greatest and I know I'm number one. But that's because I take care of myself. That's because I you know, you can see my muscles do my share you it's a it's your calling card. So you better do that. Because that's another way to really, really not just, you know, control situations, but get respect. And when you get respect and you have that confidence. People want to work with you. And the last part relationships, man, look, it's everything. If you don't build relationships, you're never going to win, to keep everything. It's the way to open up every single door. You have to be able to build great relationships. And when you can really balance all those out and make all those work. Great things are gonna happen for you and your life. Now. Do you think I like to work out every day? You think I really like waking up every day at 329 in the morning? Really? Ask yourself you really think? No, never I hate it. I don't like it every day you think I like jumping in my eyes fifth, believe it or not honest, true that scares me every single morning I go in every single morning, I have the same feeling. Especially now I live in New York, it's freezing. So all my garage, it's like in the 20s. And I'm jumping in a 27 in the ice bath. But you know what I think I say to myself, no one's gonna do shit like this. No one does what I do. That's why I am who I am. I'm unstoppable. And I jump right in as three minutes of my day, three minutes. And if you do it over and over and over and over again, it's like anything else? It's easy. You

Philip Pape 27:19

don't even think about it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, the thing about walking into a room and commanding attention, I think that could apply to anyone listening. And I've seen it with folks who are just even just going from never working out to working out two weeks later, bigger posture, all of a sudden, more confident, you know, physically not much has changed, but they're standing taller. And I think that's a great visual, because you know, somebody listening might be 60 training for the first time have a lot of weight to lose, you know, they know they're going to have to look a certain way. Like as if they were 30 in a few months, but relative to where they are now, man, it makes a huge difference in everything else. Right? It's just Matt a massively ramps up that confidence to do the other things. And like you said, hard things become easier and easier, even though you don't look forward to them. You still do them because you know the result you get. Cool. So what's like, what's your opinion on the fitness industry overall? You know, we've got so many fitful answers now on social media, we've got a lot of different programs, recommendations, people talking about, you know, all the fad diets, all that stuff. Like I'm just curious about your your

Josh York 28:17

opinion, I think you need to follow and pay attention to people who actually look the part. That's what I think that's number one. Right? You shouldn't be trading with someone who would that if you don't want to look like that right. Now, then again, it depends like, you know, I you know, I have some trainers on my team who have lost hundreds of pounds. Like, that's different. But it's all like you got to align with what you want to align with. Right? And you got to make sure you do the research and you understand what I think about the fitness industry, I think there's a lot of fitness beds out there. You know, the majority of treadmills become amazing clothing racks, a lot of these technology pieces of equipment, no one uses people and actually procrastinators, they don't turn it on. We live in a world that convenience. You know, AI is never replacing fitness. Like when people say that I laugh that makes sense. It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. Like, you need to move, no one's going to be moving for you. The only one who moves is yourself. And if you think some, some pair of goggles or something's going to change your life, it's not you gotta work out, right? Like sometimes, you know, look, if it's not broken, don't fix it, like people are trying to reinvent, like the basics of like working out and exercise. Sometimes ticking the basics is all you need to do to get great results. It's really not that it's like, this is not rocket science. It's pretty simple, you know, but, you know, I just think there's a lot of people talking out there and you know, again, look like the work always has to come before the price. You know, a lot of people are out there and they're trying to like, promote something or say something and they've never actually done anything. So just make sure you're paying attention to the right people and listening to the right people because that's very, very important. Yeah,

Philip Pape 29:46

yeah. And that's why I asked because that some people find that a difficult thing to do to kind of separate that from the noise. And would you say look apart just to clarify. And like you said, some of your trainers, they may have lost hundreds of pounds, and if you just looked at them, you'd say well, maybe they're not the fittest person I've ever seen, but actually, in relative terms, they've made a huge improvement. So that's maybe where some of the confusion is, because then there's also like bodybuilders who may not be very good coaches. So how do you separate that you

Josh York 30:10

just kind of really be smart and do the research. If you don't do the research and you don't understand the background, you know, the, you know, then it's not gonna work, right. So you got to really make sure you do your research, it's very important, before you start jumping to conclusions to say, alright, you know, this person is great for me or not, like, you got to really figure it out.

Philip Pape 30:25

Yeah. What about the future of your industry? Right? The the gap that you fill where things going?

Josh York 30:30

Yeah, look, it's very simple. I'm not just saying this being biased. I'm, you know, I'm being very real, like, we're gonna keep winning, because we're not, we're not a fad. It's a lifestyle, what we do, and at the end of the day, look at the world we live in, right? I'm sure everyone on here is owner of Amazon a minute ago, an hour ago, we can go chances are, you're a prime member, if you're not if I pass out, that's not going anywhere, and true stat 90% of people that have a gym membership don't even go, right. If you look at some of the most successful gym models out there, they're based on you not going because who's going to cancel his membership or five $10 a month. So at the end of the day, this is why we're gonna keep winning. And, you know, I think the people who are obviously, you know, continue to focus on, you know, what we're doing are going to be the ones who keep winning.

Philip Pape 31:09

Cool, man. I mean, we've covered a lot of different things. But I do always like to ask if there's something you want me to ask or a specific thing you wanted to get into that we hadn't already.

Josh York 31:17

You didn't ask me how I'm so handsome. But I'm good, man. I didn't know I think we covered a lot.

Philip Pape 31:23

All right, man. Cool. Well, where can listeners find more about you and your work?

Josh York 31:28

Yeah, you know, go online. You know, you can visit Jim guys.com You know, to learn more about our service. So maybe interested in a franchise? This you know, we do not sell franchises, we award them just make that very clear. We look for the right people, people who are rockstars you want to find out more about me, you just type in Joshua, and I'll pop up pretty much everywhere. And yeah, and that's

Philip Pape 31:47

it. All right, man. I'll add those in the show notes for sure so people can find you. Really thank you for being on the show.

Josh York 31:53

Yeah, my pleasure. I appreciate you having me man. Thank you so much.

Philip Pape 31:58

Philip Pape 2/13/24 Philip Pape 2/13/24

Ep 146: How Your Body Actually “Burns” Fat During Weight Loss (Where Does It Go?)

What really happens to fat when you lose weight? Where does the “stuff” go? How does it leave your fat cells and then your body? In today’s episode, Philip unravels the super-interesting, complex, and surprising journey of how your body burns fat during weight loss. From the moment you hit a calorie deficit to the result of a slimmer waistline, tune in as we decode the metabolic processes and bust common myths about fat loss.

What really happens to fat when you lose weight? Where does the “stuff” go? How does it leave your fat cells and then your body?

In today’s episode, Philip (@witsandweights) unravels the super-interesting, complex, and surprising journey of how your body burns fat during weight loss. From the moment you hit a calorie deficit to the result of a slimmer waistline, tune in as we decode the metabolic processes and bust common myths about fat loss.

Today, you’ll learn all about:
04:57 Exploring how the body burns fat during weight loss
07:19 Fat cell mobilization and the role of hormones
11:45 Fatty acid oxidation and energy
18:10 Water and CO2 loss
20:02 Weightloss through strength training and exercise
25:01 Common fat loss myths debunked
31:18 Practical takeaways for successful fat loss
34:33 Free guides on fat loss
35:44 Outro

Episode resources:

Episode summary:

This episode offers listeners a myth-busting expedition into the true mechanisms of fat loss and body recomposition.

The episode kicks off by addressing a question that has piqued the curiosity of many: Where does fat go when we lose it? The answer is as astonishing as it is scientifically sound—most of the fat we lose is breathed out as carbon dioxide. This revelation is the tip of the iceberg in understanding the metabolic processes that govern the way our bodies handle fat.

Diving deeper into the discussion, the podcast explores the intricate dance of hormones and enzymes that orchestrate fat mobilization. When the body finds itself in a calorie deficit, it triggers a series of hormonal responses that initiate the breakdown of fat cells into free fatty acids and glycerol, which can then be used as energy. The key players in this process include adrenaline, growth hormone, insulin, and cortisol, each with a specific role that contributes to the liberation of energy from fat stores.

However, the episode does more than just dissect the biochemical pathways of fat loss; it also dispels common myths that have long misled the fitness community. One such myth is the concept of spot reduction—the false belief that one can target fat loss in specific body areas. Another is the misunderstanding of overnight weight changes, which are often attributed to fat loss but are predominantly due to fluctuations in water weight.

Strength training emerges as a central theme in the podcast, highlighted as an essential component in boosting metabolic rate and enhancing fat oxidation. Contrary to the misconception that lifting weights is solely for muscle gain, the episode elucidates how strength training plays a pivotal role in increasing one's basal metabolic rate, thus aiding in the fight against fat.

As the conversation shifts toward the art of sustainable body recomposition, the emphasis is placed on the pitfalls of rapid weight loss, which often results in muscle depletion and an unsatisfactory physique. Instead, a gradual approach that focuses on muscle retention is championed for long-term success. This strategy encompasses not only strength training and consistent exercise but also a balanced diet rich in protein, adequate sleep, and recovery practices.

In wrapping up, the podcast touches upon the practical tools for tracking progress, underscoring the importance of body measurements over scale weight. By understanding that the body can undergo significant changes in composition without a corresponding shift in scale weight, listeners are encouraged to look beyond the numbers for a true gauge of their fitness progress.

In essence, episode 146 of Wits and Weights is more than just an informational session on fat loss; it's an empowering discourse that equips listeners with the knowledge to navigate their fitness journeys effectively. By unveiling the metabolic mysteries behind weight loss and debunking entrenched fitness myths, the episode stands as a beacon for those seeking to achieve physical self-mastery through evidence-based methods.

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Transcript

Philip Pape 00:00

What really happens to fat when we lose weight? Where does the stuff go? How does it leave your fat cells and then your body? In today's episode, we are unraveling the super interesting, complex and surprising journey of how your body burns fat during weight loss. From the moment you hit a calorie deficit to the end result of a slimmer waistline. Join us as we decode the metabolic processes and bust common myths about fat loss. Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in. Wits & Weights

Philip Pape 00:56

community Welcome to another solo episode of the Wits & Weights podcast in our last episode 145 Brian Borstein on failure training intensity, home gyms specialization and cardio. Brian shared his vast knowledge on training methods, such as length of partials, maximizing metabolic stress, intensity techniques to save time and ramp up muscle growth ideas for leg movements in a limited home gym, his thoughts on cardio and how to specialize your training for specific body parts and epic conversation back on 145. Today for Episode 146, how your body actually burns fat during weight loss. Where does it go, you'll learn the hidden mechanics of fat loss, which I must admit, took me back to my love of basic science. And this was a good refresher on how all of this works. This is something I've been fascinated with for a while. Today, you're going to learn how your body transforms fat into energy during a calorie deficit. The very interesting dance of hormones and enzymes that mobilize fat cells. And the surprising ways that fat literally exits your body, which is what we're going for, to cause your weight to trend downward over time. Now to make it a bit more practical for this episode, it's not just the science, I'm also going to debunk some of the more persistent fat loss myths explain the impact of activity and strength training on fat loss, and concluded practical, sustainable strategies for effective fat loss and body re composition. I want to give a big shout out to just Cetus in our Wits & Weights Facebook group for suggesting this topic, I had created a post where I asked about things that you wish you knew more about, but haven't heard lately, on a podcast. And we have a lot of people who are avid podcast listeners not just to this show. But if you listen to this show, you probably listen to you know 20 3050 100 other shows like it. And of course, we're trying to be unique here and hit on things that aren't covered as much in other shows. And that's why I wanted to find out what you you know were interested in. So this was definitely an awesome idea. Just see it as something that I'm surprised I hadn't come up with because I've been fascinated by it myself. I've lost sleep over thinking about what the heck is happening. When I go to bed at one weight and I wake up and another what is going on. So huge thank you for the idea. Speaking of the Facebook group, if you're feeling like you're going it alone and would benefit from some real support and engagement by people with the same or similar goals as you, such as body composition, building muscle, losing fat, all the things come join the 100% free Wits & Weights, Facebook community, it's an extremely positive community. Now I've been in a lot of Facebook groups. And I've met people who just don't get a great feel from a lot of these groups. But then they join our group and they're like, this is the one group I'm going to be in and I'm going to use Facebook just for this. Because it's so supportive. So positive. We've got experts that come in, I post a lot of exclusive content. There's the Ask Philip read every Friday where I answer your questions live in the group. So you can post your question throughout the week and then I'll answer it live. We have exclusive workshops, like the mindset workshop on stopping self sabotage with Paul Salter exclusive lives challenges so many things in the group. So I invite you to click the link in my show notes. Always there every episode no matter what your episode you're in, you'll see a link to join the Wits & Weights Facebook group, so you can see what it's all about. Good always leave if you don't like it, but I am pretty sure you're going to really love the atmosphere. And then you could talk to other driven individuals who are looking to improve their body composition using the evidence based approaches that we talked about. For training, nutrition, health, physique, all of that. Again, just click the link in the show notes or search Wits & Weights on Facebook to join the Wits. & Weights Facebook community. Alright, enough of that. Let's jump into today's very, very intriguing topic, how your body actually burns fat right weight loss, where does it go. So when you're in a calorie deficit, meaning you are consuming fewer calories than your body is burning, the body says, whoa, what's going on, you're asking me to do things like exist, move, lift weights, whatever, you know, pump your heart, but you're not giving me enough energy in the form of food. And so the body needs to pull from its energy stores that sells That's right, that's, that's, that's what we love about it. They're like, they're like our battery cells, and we want them to shrink in certain cases. And it's gonna pull from those energy stores those fat cells to make up for the lack of energy coming from that. So the main energy store in the body is fat, it's stored in what we call adipose tissue. And to tap into those fat stores, the body goes through this complex metabolic process to release the energy contained in those fat cells and make it available for the body to use. Now you might have heard it's, it's pretty easy to gain fat, but it's also not so hard to lose it, right. So it kind of is a fast process. When we look at how this all works. Now, our body stores this, this any excess energy that comes in, in fat cells, it converts it in some way, and we're not going to go through that process. But those fat cells those adipocytes, they get stored energy does in the form of triglycerides. So you've probably heard of that, because triglycerides get measured. If you ever get your blood work done, you see your LDL, HDL and triglycerides. And this is why one of a kind of a general proxy for poor health is high triglycerides, because it indicates higher fat storage, right higher body fat. Now, to tap into these fat reserves, you need to be in a calorie deficit, meaning you consume fewer calories than you burn. However, I said that earlier, however, you can tap into these fat cells, even when you're not in a, a total gross deficit. But you're building muscle at the same time. And your body ends up being in a net deficit after accounting for the energy to build that muscle. So it gets a little confusing, because you're like, Well, how do I lose fat, even when I'm not in a deficit, it simply because to your body in terms of what it needs for energy, it thinks it's in a deficit, because you've already used some of that energy to build muscle, just to simplify it, and it and it's like, wait a minute, I still need more energy. So I'm gonna pull it from the fat cells. But to keep this simple, we're going to just say that you are in a calorie deficit, meaning you're eating less than you burn, and then that'll make it easy to understand. Alright, so I want to start with a concept called fat cell mobilization, for fat burning to occur. And you know, when we say burn, we don't mean like it's literally on fire. But yet, there is some sense of reality to that, because we are expending the energy for fat burning to occur. First, the fat itself has to be broken down into what's called three fatty acids, and glycerol. And it does this through a process called lipolysis. This occurs when hormones that regulate your fat metabolism, trigger those fat cells to release their contents. So that's very high level, right? There are hormones that regulate your fat metabolism, they trigger the cells to release their content. And there are 1234 Key hormones that I'm going to talk about briefly here. The first one is adrenaline and noradrenaline kind of a combo. So a lot of the terms I'm going to throw out here are sciency. And even I don't understand them all, because I'm not a biologist, but I'm saying it verbatim. So catecholamine hormones, think that's how you pronounce it, are secreted by the adrenal glands. So you know, the adrenal glands, which produce adrenaline, and this happens in multiple times, but especially during exercise, fasting, which is just another fancy way to say calorie deficit, meaning even within a given day, there are times at which your body is in a deficit, but even over the long term as well. And also stress, right? So these hormones that are secreted activate an enzyme called hormone sensitive lipase HSL, that directly breaks down the triglycerides into free fatty acids. I'll put another way. They bind to the receptors on fat cells, signaling them to release stored fat. So just that just to summarize, right, you do certain things like going to a calorie deficit. There's hormones that get secreted, and they tell the triglycerides to break down into free fatty acids, right. Then we have growth hormone. So growth hormone is secreted by the pituitary gland. And it's done. So impulses which I think is really interesting, especially during sleep and high intensity exercise. So growth hormone activates lipolysis. Remember Life policies is this conversion process through triglycerides, triglyceride lipase enzyme and by boosting the effects of other fat burning hormones. So this is as complicated as is going to get trust me, but if you nerd out on this stuff, I hope you enjoy insulin, we all know about insulin. This is an anabolic hormone. It's an anabolic hormone. We love insulin in the strength and lifting community as much as a bad rap as it gets. For in the anti carb world, it's something we are happy to have, because it's anabolic, and it promotes glycogen, fat and protein storage, when you have lots of nutrients. But when you're in a deficit, the insulin drops and your low insulin levels, further facilitate lipolysis. And then finally, we have cortisol, right, the stress hormone, it's released again, by your adrenals, another hormone released by your adrenal glands, when you are fasting, or you're in a starvation mode, or in a calorie deficit, right. This is why fat loss is stressful for you. Cortisol raises blood sugar, and it promotes gluconeogenesis. And providing fatty acids as fuel, right. gluconeogenesis is when you convert protein into glucose. It prevents adipose tissue from taking up and storing circulated fats. So this in this case, that's a positive that we're going for, because it's actually preventing the storage of fat cells. So the combination of all these hormones in this very complex dance end up bringing the fatty acids from the triglycerides, and these free fatty acids and the glycerol, enter your bloodstream. And now they can be transported to your tissues for energy production. So we're not even talking about the loss of fat yet, we're just talking about the release of the energy from your fat cells, which your body needs, that's why you released it, your body didn't have enough energy, because you were effectively starving it with a calorie deficit, it now needs that energy to kind of make up the difference before it then has the byproducts that lead to weight loss. So we're gonna get to in a second. Okay, hope you're still with all right. So that was, that's all mobilization. Now we have fatty acid oxidation. So once those fatty acids, those free fatty acids are circulating in the bloodstream, they can be transported to your various tissues, like your muscle cells, right and the enter the mitochondria of the cells. Now, you may remember that term from biology, and they undergo what's called beta oxidation at the end, the end result is they produce ATP, adenosine triphosphate, ATP, is the body's usable energy. You may have heard about ATP with when if you've ever learned about energy systems, or the fact that we need that ATP when we we strength train for that when you take creatine, it increases the uptake of ATP into the muscles, which helps with your lifting, right? ATP, it's effectively the the atomic unit of energy for the body, atomic Nami atom but but like a single, it's the ultimate unit of energy. Here's what happens. Number one, fatty acid molecules are broken apart in various stages. And these release what are called acetyl groups. Number two, the acetyl groups go through chemical reactions in the Krebs cycle. Again, biology, I'm not getting into this, trust me, this is as detailed as I go. That Krebs cycle then causes these to produce electrons, those electrons feed into the electron transport chain, and that generates ATP molecules, again, the body's energy, currency. Now you don't have to understand any of what I'm talking about in this episode, to lose fat. But it's really fascinating. At least I find it so. So this process of using oxygen in mitochondria, to break apart fatty acids and generate ATP is what we call fat oxidation. Right? So you see why it's called that we're using the oxygen in the cells break apart, the fatty acids generate ATP. Now, before you actually lose weight, lots of the energy released as ATP is, of course, used by your body for all of its cellular processes, like digestion, keeping your organs functioning, your heart pumping, you're exercising, you're walking, you're using all of your muscles, lifting weights, even sleeping, basically, every breathing, right, everything that makes up your body's metabolism, and adds up to what we think of as your maintenance calories, right, your TDE all the all the energy you need throughout the day, from you know, 12, midnight to 12. Midnight, the next day you're TDE is you need energy from somewhere. So if you don't get it from food, because you're in a deficit, you get it from your fat cells as ATP that's been oxidized. Now, since you're in that calorie deficit, right, and your body has pulled extra energy from fat cells that it couldn't get from your food. Here's where the magic happens. That causes you to lose physical weight on the scale. All right, the carbon atoms from this process are ultimately released as carbon dioxide and the hydrogen atoms combined with oxygen atoms to form water. And this is where we get all of the weight loss during fat burning. These turned into three things. Okay, two I just mentioned and then a third I'll mention a second. Carbon dioxide, water and other minerals So carbon dioxide, around 84% of the mass loss from fat comes from you breathing out co2. Each Tria GLIs Trius sigh glycerol molecule holds a bunch of carbon atoms. And this is a byproduct of the oxidation process we talked about earlier. And all the cellular processes that occur that get used, that were that use the fat cells, what you're left with is this triacylglycerol molecule, and it has a bunch of carbon atoms that get released. And they combine with the carbon and oxygen combined co2. So 84% of the weight you lose, you're breathing it out. That's it. Right. And I was, I was shocked to hear this, when I learned it a couple years ago, I always thought it was your sweat your urine, you're going to the bathroom, a heat, you know, but 84% of the mass loss comes from reading out co2 16%. So almost all the rest come out as water. So this is the loss of hydrogen atoms combined with oxygen to form water. And that comes out through your sweat, your urine, your respiration, like your breathing, where there's there's liquid in your breath as well. And then some other physiological processes. So it's not nothing still 16% of what you lose does come out in the form of water. But 84% of is carbon dioxide. And then there's a trace amount like a half percent or less, that come out as other minerals like phosphorus and sulfur, which you know, can come out in your urine, for example, hence the smell. Okay, so the carbon dioxide, co2 production happens continuously, right? It's always happening, you're obviously always breathing out, but it could reach its highest rates after you eat or during aerobic exercise. And this is why they're all these links between exercise and fat burning and types of exercise, fasted training and all these other things. At the end of the day, don't try to gain the system when it comes to fat burning in that sense. Just be consistent and do the work. And it'll happen. Hey, this is Philip. And I hope you're enjoying this episode of Wits & Weights,

Philip Pape 17:10

I started Wits & Weights to help people who want to build muscle lose fat and actually look like they lift. I've noticed that when people improve their strength and physique, they not only look and feel better, they transform other areas of their life, their health, their mental resilience and their confidence in everything they do. And since you're listening to this podcast, I assume you want the same things the same success, whether you recently started lifting, or you've been at this for a while and want to optimize and reach a new level of success. Either way, my one on one coaching focused on engineering your physique and body composition is for you. If you want expert guidance and want to get results faster, easier, and with fewer frustrations along the way to actually look like you lift, go to wits & weights.com, and click on coaching, or use the link in my show notes to apply today. I'll ask you a few short questions to decide if we're a good fit. And if we are, we'll get you started this week. Now back to the show.

Philip Pape 18:10

Now, the water loss tends to be steadier. Right? It's not continuously like the co2, it's more from sweat from urinating, it depends on your breathing rate, things like that. So in summary, here's the thing. The fat exits fat cells enters the bloodstream, it travels to cells for energy processing, and then leaves the body as co2 and water resulting in weight loss from the loss of carbon atoms. That's it. You're losing carbon. All right. So that's the metabolic process. I hope, hopefully, I kept it high enough level and simple enough that you're like, wow, that's interesting. And maybe I want to learn more about bits and pieces of that. And maybe I'm shocked or surprised that most of it comes out of co2. And that's how you're physically losing weight. Right. Now, real caveat there is that your day to day scale weight doesn't tell you enough information to know how much of that is from the loss of co2, because the water weight fluctuates significant. We talked about that before on the show. But if you're new to the show, or you're wondering about scale weight, the reason we'd like I like my clients to weigh themselves every single day so that we get used to the fact that your weight fluctuates by multiple pounds almost every single day. And only through the trend over time. Can we tell if you're actually losing fat, these carbon atoms are actually leaving your body over time. So it's almost like that the carbon atoms leave slowly, you know, to the tune of, let's say, a pound a week. But every day water, water molecules go in and out at a rate of you know, 123456 pounds a day. So the signal in the noise is hard to detect. Unless you're capturing your weight daily over a long time. And by long I mean two to three weeks to see that that it's actually trending your body mass is actually reducing Carbon atoms via carbon dioxide. Alright, so I did want to touch a little bit on exercise strength training your metabolic rate, how they engage with this process of fat storage and using fat for fuel as well. And then we'll get into common fat loss myths. So just the act of engaging in physical activity really helps with the process of accessing and utilizing fat for fuel. Now, you know that we are a diet neutral show, we don't emphasize one, quote unquote, diet or another. I'm a big fan of flexible dieting and using what works for you. I don't vilify carbs, I don't vilify fat, either any macros really. And we don't really get into the discussions of like, becoming a fat burner, but you know, versus carb burner in the Keto world, you know, going to ketosis, all of that. You use fat for fuel, regardless whether it's your quote, unquote, primary source, because you're short on glucose or not, you you end up using fat for fuel. And, of course, liberating fat from fat cells in the process we just talked about, that's the whole point. That's what fat loss is, is liberating fat, getting those fatty acids available as an energy source via ATP right. Now, being mobile and moving a lot and strength training. These all these activities regulate the hormones that are behind fat metabolism, like cortisol, right, you can become more adaptable to your cortisol curve, you can burn down some of that cortisol if it's too high, when you strength train, and so on. And this only improves the fat oxidation during and after exercise. So there is evidence to say that independent of a calorie deficit, you're going to be more effective at burning fat by being an active person by getting enough sleep by strength training, right. So it's kind of a it feeds on itself. Not only is it beneficial for the the building muscle aspect, and the cardiovascular aspect, it also helps you become better at burning fat. And we know of other things like the fact that if you're sleep deprived, you'll you'll store fat in the more dangerous visceral area, and things like that, that have been demonstrated by the evidence. So there's obviously some connection there. There's both the I'll say the aerobic aspect for the calorie burning aspect, like when you just walk or run or swim or cycle or anything, where you are going to burn, you're going to burn calories, and some of those are going to be fat, calories, you know, there's glucose, there's fat, you're always going to burn some fat. And it's quite a bit, you know, depending on the activity, right. And, of course, this leads to fat release and transport after you exercise. So there's some, there's some evidence that shows that fat burning goes up, even after exercise. So it's not massive, right? We never want to over blow these things. But you've probably heard that before. And so again, just it feeds on itself. Strength training, burns, fats, burns fat in multiple, okay, the primary way that I I love about it, is it increases your metabolic rate, right building muscle elevates your BMR. You know, again, not massively, but to the tune of, you know, six to 10 calories per pound of muscle, that you just burn for having that muscle. And, you know, a male can gain 30 or 40 pounds of muscle in his, like a natural, lifting career, maybe a little more. So I mean, if you had the full 40 pounds of muscle that's 400 calories a day you're burning, versus the person that doesn't just for existing, right. So that's an amazing thing. Strength training also boosts fat oxidation, which is what we were just talking about, it enhances your body's ability to use the fat, it shuttles it into your muscle cells for energy, because you need that, boom, just the act of lifting weights as a fat burning activity. And then it improves insulin sensitivity. We know this as well. It encourages, you know, obviously, muscle growth itself, it needs the insulin and the anabolic result of that insulin, and it balances the insulin activity as a result, right? You're effectively saying, Yeah, give me that blood sugar spike, or give me that extra insulin because I'm going to use it and it bounces off and therefore you become metabolically resilient and more insulin sensitive. And then it's harder for you to store fat over time. I always question statements like that, because in the right calorie surplus, you're going to store fat. But I've seen this anecdotally. And I've heard it for many, many people that the more muscle you build, just the the harder it is to gain, it seems to gain fat after you build up that muscle. And it also seems harder when you're a little bit leaner. Even though some people think it's the opposite. But it seems to be like a runaway effect when you start getting too much body fat. Whereas if you stay leaner, kind of in this nice range is healthy range. I don't know for males, let's say 10 to 20% or so, not something that's a reasonable range right there that you're kind of in an optimal area to not getting too fat more quickly than you want. It's still going to come down to how well trained you are, how much muscle you already have and what rate of gain you go, of course. Alright, so that's how activity plays into At Bat, there are a bunch of misconceptions around how our bodies burn fat that I also wanted to address. So these are, you know, common myths that I came up with. So these are four in particular, that I still hear. The first one is spot reduction. Okay, you can't do you can't target fat loss from a specific body part with a particular exercise or, or anything, right, that cells throughout your body are oxidized, like indiscriminately. One of the few, I guess caveats to that is, you can seem to gain fat in certain areas. For example, if you have if you drink more alcohol, or if you don't get enough sleep, you'll gain belly fat. And also women because of changes in hormones and Peri and post menopause like the change in estrogen may cause more belly fat storage. But again, it's it's a matter of where your body tends to store fat, you can't target the reduction of fat from a particular area without something drastic like surgery. So that's the first one. So if you're trying to reduce belly fat, or you're trying to reveal your six pack abs or whatever, the best thing to do is train your abs and lose fat. That's it when you have some lose fat. Alright, the second misconception is that fat turns into muscle that doesn't have, okay, fat and muscle are two different tissues that cannot directly convert into muscle mass. After it's lost, there are two different things that are happening potentially at the same time. Like you can be burning fat while you are building muscle. Two different things. The third one is I guess I'll call it overnight fat loss, right? Like, if your scale drops two pounds overnight, on the scale, you didn't lose two pounds of fat. Sorry, that's not what happened. Okay, you whatever fat you lost was probably equivalent to your calorie deficit. So if you're in 1000 calorie deficit for the day, okay, that's 1/7 of two pounds. Okay, so that'd be like, if you lost two pounds a week. That'd be like a seventh of that, which is a fraction, a fraction of a pound, I'm not going to do the math, right. The point is, if your scale drops by 234, or five pounds overnight, it's water, it's mostly water. Alright, the noticeable fat loss occurs over time, and it will happen over weeks and months after a cumulative calorie deficit through your diet, right, and also through, well, no exclusively through your diet. But of course, being active and burning more calories and having more muscle allows you to be in that deficit, potentially eating more food. That makes sense. There's no shortcuts, no shortcuts, right? Number four, the fourth is about rapid fat loss. So I've talked about rapid fat loss before I even have a rapid fat loss guide. And Rapid Fat Loss is a very controlled protocol done for a very short time, two weeks, two weeks at the most, where you are training really intensely, not intensely, but the intensity of your training is high, the load is high, right, the weight on the bar is high, and your protein is quite high. And you're able to hold on to most of your muscle mass while losing a bunch of fat two weeks. That's that's a controlled Rapid Fat Loss protocol. But what most people do is they lose fat way too quickly. Not using one of those protocols, but just on a regular diet or, you know, extreme restriction, or a named diet where they cut out a bunch of food groups like carbs, or cut out all, you know, plant products like carnivore, and they lose a bunch of weight very quickly. A lot of its waterways initially, but then they might lose a bunch of tissue. But the problem is, it's not all fat. In fact, probably 25% or even more is muscle muscle loss, let alone the diet not being sustainable. Right. So yeah, your weight on the scale is going to drop really quickly. If you do that, but you just lost a ton of muscle that's going to take time and effort to get back, you're gonna look skinny fat, it's not the physique you're going for at all. What's the point? Why would you do that? Don't do that. All right. So you can speed up fat loss, fat loss just will occur at the rate that it occurs. And if you push the needle too far, you're gonna start losing muscle. It's just like in the other direction, when you're trying to gain muscle, you can't speed up muscle building, by just gaining more weight, you're just gonna gain more fat, the body has limits, which it can do these days. All right, and then I mentioned briefly before, and I want to touch on it again that it is possible, especially for individuals who are training but but are still newer in their training journey to burn significant fat, not not just fat, but a significant amount of fat without necessarily losing weight through body composition, right? This occurs when you're building effectively an equal amount of muscle mass to replace the lost fat. You're not converting converting fat into muscle, but you're doing both at the same time. And so you're you're eating at this level of calories that appears to maintain your weight. But chances are it's actually more than that, because you're compensating for the fact that your body is building this extra tissue. And so it's actually burning more than it would otherwise, right? And, and that's why body recomp can be deceptive. So some people, when they start lifting, they're like, their waist goes down, they start getting stronger, and but they're not gaining or losing weight. So that could be happened, for sure. And I mentioned why before, it's because your body thinks it's in a little bit of a deficit. Because it doesn't have enough energy leftover after the body uses what it means to build muscle, the more advanced you are, the less this is going to happen, because muscle gets added at a much slower rate in more advanced trainees, and therefore, the comparison of muscle gain to fat gain is lopsided, like you can't gain that much muscle in that scenario. So you're either just not going to gain much muscle have maintenance, or you're going to have to be in a slight deficit, I'm sorry, you're gonna have to, you're gonna have to gain weight to build muscle, or you're going to primarily lose fat, even when you're at meat, so not gonna build much muscle. Okay, I hope I explained all that. When it comes to body fat in general, body measurements, like your waist circumference, you know, how you look how you feel in your clothes, things like that are gonna give you better insight than either the scale or some sort of body fat measurement device, which are very inaccurate. So I'm not going to get into that on today's episode. But if you're curious about more, you can always reach out and ask me, Hey, how can I measure my body fat? Okay, practical takeaways. I want to conclude with that. So the first, the first big takeaway is tracking.

Philip Pape 31:25

How often have I mentioned this, and people don't do it. I have people reach out to me all the time saying, like, I I can't lose weight no matter how little I. And my first question is, are you tracking? No, no, no, I'm not tracking, it's tedious or whatever other excuse, insert excuse here. Alright, well, come back to me. After you track for about three or four weeks go use Mac, go download macro factor, use my code, Wits, & Weights, best app around it dynamically adjust your metabolism, you will know very quickly what you're putting in your mouth quality, how much protein, all of that even if you don't try to hit targets just to be aware just to get that you know, level of awareness, then you can use that same tool to be very precise with your fat loss phase and be very confident that you're going to get there in a reasonable amount of time without floundering around and constantly hitting plateaus. The second thing related to that is going at the proper rate of loss. We mentioned earlier that rapid fat loss is not sustainable, and it kill it reduces muscle mass, we want to keep that rate of loss between a quarter and 1% per week. Okay, strength training is a must period. If you listen to the show, you should be strength training. I'm not gonna say by now if it's the first episode you ever listen to go check out a bunch of my other episodes and, and kind of get the bug for why training is pretty much a necessity for everyone on this planet. If you want to be strong fit and have great body composition as well and have good health. But you have to be strength training with progressive overload. You want to be walking. To some extent, you know, eight to 12,000 steps is reasonable. For most people, it's a great target. You're not there yet, work your way up over time by incorporating fun activities that gets you those steps. And then other cardio is really kind of optional, but in certain scenarios. During fat loss, it can be helpful to add a little bit to the calorie burn. Prioritizing sleep prioritizing recovery, prioritizing yourself care. And of course, eating plenty of protein, and eating in a sustainable way that lets you get through the diet without feeling too miserable. Because it's not the most fun to be dieting. It's not like a walk in the park. But it should be as easy as you could make it and if you missed it or you want to go back in the archives. One of our most popular episodes is that covers all of this much more detail is episode 40 Episode 40 Everything you need to know about fat loss simple strategies for a fitter leaner body. Again, just search for episode 40 and have a listen for my detailed breakdown on fat loss. Alright, so to sum it all up fat burning is it's complex biologically, it doesn't have to be that complex practically. So biologically, it's this dance of hormones, of enzymes of intracellular transport, respiration, metabolic processes, all these things that happen that unlock that pesky store fat from your fat cells to create energy that then eliminates waste products for from your body in the form of co2 and water, ultimately resulting in both weight and fat loss. Okay, so before we sign off, I did want to mention that among our free guides are three that are related to fat loss that you might be interested in. And I might be adding more soon here. One is on Rapid Fat Loss one is on female fat loss, and one is on fat loss refeeds but again, if you want just the big picture and fat loss, go check out episode 40. If you want one of these three guides, check them out at wits & weights.com/free or click the link in the show notes. So you can always just go to wits & weights.com and click free stuff at the top as well. And you can find all the free guides with more being added all the time. Okay, so I hope you enjoyed the little bit of science a little bit of practical, a little bit of bit of myth busting, like we do on the show. And in our next episode 147 A brand new way to workout at home with Josh York. Discover the journey behind this interesting company called gym guys. And it's unique in home training model. You'll learn about Josh's intense, and I mean intense, and he's an intense guy, his intense personal health regimen and how he balances everything, his views on the fitness industry, and of course, some practical strategies for training building muscle and optimizing your fitness. As always, stay strong. And I'll talk to you next time here on the Wits & Weights podcast. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights, please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong

Philip Pape 2/9/24 Philip Pape 2/9/24

Ep 145: Bryan Boorstein on Failure Training, Intensity, Home Gyms, Specialization, and Cardio

Have you ever wondered how to maximize muscle growth while saving time? Tune in as Bryan Boorstein reveals intensity techniques that’ll transform your workouts! Philip is joined by Bryan Boorstein, the mastermind and training genius. His extensive knowledge of training methods takes center stage as he delves into captivating topics. From lengthened partials to maximizing metabolic stress and from intensity techniques for efficient workouts to ideas for leg movements in a limited home gym, Bryan shares insights that will elevate your fitness game.

Have you ever wondered how to maximize muscle growth while saving time? Tune in as Bryan Boorstein reveals intensity techniques that’ll transform your workouts!

Today, Philip (@witsandweights) is joined by Bryan Boorstein, the mastermind and training genius. His extensive knowledge of training methods takes center stage as he delves into captivating topics. From lengthened partials to maximizing metabolic stress and from intensity techniques for efficient workouts to ideas for leg movements in a limited home gym, Bryan shares insights that will elevate your fitness game.

As a true “Renaissance Man” of health and fitness, Bryan’s training approach seamlessly integrates elements from bodybuilding, powerlifting, and athleticism. His content and coaching exude knowledge, nuance, and infectious passion, all aimed at helping YOU optimize your physique and performance.

With 25+ years of training experience, Byran collaborates with top athletes. As founder of Evolved Training Systems and Paragon Training Methods, he offers goal-oriented online programs for strength, physique, and skill development. Bryan co-hosts the Eat Train Prosper podcast, sharing practical strategies on nutrition, training, mindset, and lifestyle. His philosophy blends science, experience, and intuition for effective workouts.

Today, you’ll learn all about:

3:20 Lengthened partials - Bryan’s take
9:06 Failure training vs. effective reps - resolving the debate
15:59 Failure vs. submaximal training
24:21 Metabolic stress techniques - favorites and periodization
30:33 Strength vs. hypertrophy training
35:43 Building legs without machines
49:32 Optimizing cardio for muscle growth
58:09 Basic specialization approach
1:02:20 The question Byran wished Philip had asked
1:04:19 Outro

Episode resources:

Instagram: @bryanboorstein – Tons of programs

Episode summary:

Philip Pape invites training expert Brian Borstein to share his extensive knowledge on enhancing physical self-mastery. The episode unfolds with a deep dive into the intersection of cardiovascular fitness and muscle recovery, which, when balanced correctly, can amplify muscle development. Brian enlightens us on the concept of stretch-mediated hypertrophy, where exercises are performed in a muscle's stretched position, a technique that can maximize tension and muscle growth. They explore the benefits of lengthened partials, metabolic stress, and intensity techniques that could revolutionize home gym workouts for leg day.

Brian brings a fresh perspective on cardio, once thought to detract from muscle gains, now understood to be a synergistic component when properly programmed. Cardiovascular work is not only an integral part of fitness and fat loss, but also plays a crucial role in enhancing recovery and allowing for increased gym volume. In this insightful conversation, Brian and Philip dissect the effective reps model, the concept of training to failure, and the merits of personalized workout regimes. They share their personal victories across various training volumes, laying out a roadmap for listeners to tailor their path to fitness success.

As they continue, the focus shifts to the evolution of training methods and intensity techniques. Philip recounts his journey through various fitness programs, from the high-intensity MaxOT to the sub-failure efficiency of CrossFit, and the influence of the evidence-based fitness movement. They touch on the mental and physical challenges presented by intensity techniques like rest-pause and drop sets, emphasizing the need for balance and a sustainable approach that maintains health for lifelong fitness.

Moving into practical application, the episode details how to optimize quad and hamstring training with adjustments for different gym environments. Brian provides actionable tips for those limited to home gyms or commercial gym settings, demonstrating how innovative methods, like the foam roller hack squat, can mimic experiences one might get from professional gym equipment. He further discusses the relevance of single-leg exercises and their versatility in targeting specific muscle groups.

The conversation takes a turn towards the relationship between cardio and muscle gains, busting myths surrounding the interference effect. They delve into recent research that underscores the complementarity of cardiovascular and resistance training, emphasizing improved fitness, recovery, and adaptation from workouts. Brian shares his personal experiences with zone two heart rate training, a measure of cardiovascular fitness that can indicate better mitochondrial function.

Lastly, they explore strategies for body part specialization within a training program, discussing the concept of rotating specialization cycles to focus on volume for targeted muscle groups. The discussion includes practical implementation advice, adjusting exercise order, and proximity to failure to achieve the best results for physique optimization.

This episode is a treasure trove of knowledge for anyone looking to elevate their fitness regimen. Brian Borstein's insights and Philip Pape's engaging discussion provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the latest strategies in muscle growth, cardio synergy, and the art of personalized training. As they conclude, listeners are left with a wealth of information to apply to their workouts and a motivation to push the boundaries of conventional fitness wisdom.

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Transcript

Bryan Boorstein 00:00

It seems intuitively that if you're able to increase your cardiovascular fitness at least to like a decent base level, that this then improves your recovery adaptations allows you to do more volume in the gym and thus you know elicit better gains across the board.

Philip Pape 00:16

Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in. Wits & Weights community Welcome to another episode of the Wits & Weights Podcast. Today I'm joined by mastermind and training genius Brian Borstein. I brought Brian on the show to share with you his vast knowledge on train methods. And we're gonna get into some fun topics like lengthen partials, maximizing metabolic stress intensity techniques to save time and ramp up muscle growth, ideas for leg movements and a home gym. His nuanced and Recently Updated thoughts on cardio and how to specialize your training to get jacked and swell in all the right places. Brian Borstein is a renaissance man of health and fitness. His approach to training combines the best of bodybuilding powerlifting, and athleticism. And he always brings knowledge, nuance and infectious passion into his content and coaching to help you optimize your physique and performance. With over 25 years of training experience, Brian has worked with some of the world's top athletes. He's the founder of evolved training systems and Paragon training methods, offering online goal oriented training programs for strength, physique, and skill at all levels. He's also co hosts of one of my favorite shows, eat train prosper, along with Aaron Stryker, where he shares practical strategies on nutrition training, mindset and lifestyle. Ryan's philosophy combines science experience and intuition to create effective and enjoyable workouts. He's also an intellectually curious dude who takes knowledge from multiple fields, everything from neuroscience and psychology to elite athletic coaching, and even philosophy and he makes cross disciplinary connections that would elude narrower minds. Brian challenges the myths and assumptions in the fitness industry and today he brings his formidable intellect to Wits & Weights, to share his wit and wisdom to empower you to become your best self. So if you self identify as an athlete, aspiring athlete, or you're just a seeker of excellence and personal growth, get ready to learn and be inspired by the master the innovator Brian Borstein. Welcome to the show, Brian.

Bryan Boorstein 02:37

Hey, man, you know, I had high expectations coming in and and you exceeded them. So, you know, that is that is a great trait upon yourself to be able to go in with high expectations and then come out, still exceeding them. So I appreciate the introduction. I'm glad to be here. And yeah, thank you for having me.

Philip Pape 02:56

Yeah, we were joking before because when I reached out to Brian, just for the listener knows what the epic introductions. I sent him a funny video some of my past intros. He's like, ah, the bar is really high, man, you gotta you gotta top that. So Challenge accepted. And, and well deserved. So anyway, you know, I want to jump right into some of the topics. I think the audience will get to know you what you do and your philosophy through our conversation. And I just want to start with lengthen partials. This is a technique where also called long length partials and I think Stretch, stretch mediated hypertrophy, where you perform only the bottom half the exercise, right where the muscles are most stretched. And the intent is to increase tension to produce more hypertrophy. My question for you is do you use these in your personal training? And then do you find them effective?

Bryan Boorstein 03:42

Yeah, you know, I started using them and experimenting with them back in, I want to say 2019, maybe it was early 2020. But there was this initial study by Mao and colleagues that came out around that same time and ascent, it was the first one of this era of research to kind of promote the benefit of lengthen partials or not even LinkedIn partials per se, but that there is benefit to training at long muscle lengths. And so in this study, what they did is they simply compare to a seated leg curl in a hip flexed position, where the hamstring is pre stretched to a lying leg curl in which the hamstring is not pre stretched, and transited shorter muscle legs. And the most interesting part of this whole study wasn't just that the hamstrings grew more from the seated leg curl. It was actually that three of the hamstring muscles grew more from the seated leg curl, but the was it the chrysalis. There was one specific hamstring muscle, the one that wraps around, it's not the chrysalis. It'll come back to me. But one specific hamstring muscle grew more on the lying leg curl Sartorius it was a Sartorius and it's because the sartorius is actually more lengthened, more stretched out in the line. Lying leg curl. So three of them grew more in the seated leg girl because they're more stretched out. And one of them grew more in the lying leg curl because it is more stretched out. And I am always one to jump on things early not to sit there and try and promote to the world that this is the greatest thing. And like one study says we need to do this. So everybody needs to train with these stretch mediated movements, more just that I had been training 20 years at that point. And the opportunity to experiment with something new, was really exciting to me. And so I began training with this notion of long muscle lengths at that time. And then that progressed very quickly from the next sequence of studies that came through that actually did compare lengthen partials to full range. In fact, the next study that I was privy to was Pedrosa and colleagues. And they compared leg extensions that were done at five different ranges of motion, but the only three of them are really important. So they compared one group that did full range of motion leg extensions, one group that just did the bottom of the leg extension up to 50, or 60 degrees of range of motion, or 50 to 60% of the range of motion, it was up to 150 degrees, maybe 140, something like that. And then the third group only did the the short range of motion. So they went from that, like 130 degrees of knee flexion, all the way up to 180, where the legs would be straight, and they just did the top half. And so the the group that did the bottom half only outperformed not just the short muscle length group, but also outperformed the full range of motion muscle group, muscle range group. So at that point, I was like, fully, and that was 2000 22,021. And I began experimenting with them in pretty much all of my movements at that point.

Philip Pape 06:47

And I mean, so just for the average guy who's you know, running a standard hypertrophy Program, or 40, split or something like that, do you recommend adding them in replacing sets with them doing a more for isolation work versus, you know, some bigger lifts because I know, Jeff nippert and others, you know, post content about this all the time, and he's doing them with squats. So what are your general recommendations there?

Bryan Boorstein 07:07

Yeah, I've been a little slower to jump on the bandwagon for lengthen partials for movements that are already lengthened. And so for that, you know, we have movements like an RDL. We have movements like a squat, we have movements, like dumbbell bench press, things like that. And so in my mind, for the first few years of this experimentation, I was thinking, Why would I need to do a lengthen partial on a movement that is already lengthened, overloaded, it's biased to that range of motion already. And even now, I have been experimenting with those, I still mostly feel the same way that you know, there might be very, very, very slight benefit to doing lengthen partials in those movements. But because it is lengthen, overloaded, all the real benefit is by doing a lengthen partial there is spending more of your time under tension in the length and range. Whereas I think a movement that is short overloaded in nature, think, pull downs, rows, leg extensions, leg curls, things like that. Lateral Raises are another really good one, if you're spending the majority of your time or the movement is hardest in the short position, it seems to me that there would be even extra benefit in doing lengthen partials there, and or going to failure at the full range and then letting range of motion drop off as fatigue increases. Ya

Philip Pape 08:34

know, it's interesting, because I have friends that are that are, you know, swear by it. And it's not like it's, it's easier, necessarily, especially when you're doing like you said, for movements that are already lengthen, you know, if you try squats, you realize that, like you said, you're just constantly under tension, it's pretty hard. So it's just trying to, you know, these nuanced things, like you said, they're the become hot topics in the industry, everybody wants to try them, but they're not, you know, they're not gonna replace what's tried and true there may be going to enhance and optimize. So alright, yeah, I was just curious about that. Cool. All right. So another topic that's that's big these days. And you you recently posted about it is the effective reps model, you know, failure training, but specifically the idea that only those last few reps, you know, before failure are the ones that actually count are the ones actually stimulate muscle growth. And for various reasons, the motor motor unit recruitment, the velocity slowing down, whatever. And yet, you pointed out that you can still see effectiveness by modifying volume, even when you're using low or IR which isn't in that range that regime. You in your post, you concluded by saying the following quote, There are many roads to Rome, hypertrophy is extremely forgiving, and that you can train in a variety of ways and achieve hypertrophy. Just make sure the big rocks are satisfied, sufficient effort, sufficient volume, sufficient recovery. So doubling down for us. What are your thoughts on the effective reps model without a four hour podcast and always

Bryan Boorstein 09:59

Yeah, this was from a four hour podcast by data driven strength. And so for anybody that wants the full unabridged version, you can go check that one out. But yeah, I mean, you know, I get questions from young kids all the time in my DMs or elsewhere on the podcast, whatever. And they're always really obsessed with these super nuanced topics like long muscle length training, or like training to failure versus volume, or volume being the primary driver of hypertrophy and all of these things. And at some level, that matters, eventually. But I think that what gets you the most benefit, and probably who's going to take you to 98, or 99% of your genetic potential, is just going to be doing it for a really long time, doing a decent amount of volume, and working pretty damn hard. And recovery is a necessary evil that comes along with that, right? The more work you do, the harder you do that work, the more you have to recover. Another thing that these kids often forget to consider is that they want to do this for life, potentially, they don't just want to get jacked in five years, and then be like, oh, sweet, I'm jacked. Now I can stop training as hard. And I can just go like, be jacked. And that's not really the way this works. I mean, it's a, it's a lifelong game. And for somebody that's been doing it for 25 years, there's a sustainability piece to this as well. And so even if we can look at this new envious study that came out, where it's like, oh, 52 sets to failure per muscle group per week, is gonna get you the most jacked. People fail to look at that, and extrapolate out and back up and say, okay, even if during six or eight weeks, or whatever that study was, the people that worked up to 52 sets did get more jacked than the people that were doing less sets, you got to think of the long term and what does 52 sets a week to failure due to your motivation? What does it do to your joint structures? What does it do to all of the elements that go into creating a lifelong commitment to this endeavor? And so I think, dialing that back to back to the effective reps model is that there are many ways to rope. I have heard so many stories in the trenches from people that swear that, you know, they were doing high volume training. And when they cut their volume back, and they just started going to failure on one or two hard sets, their physiques completely changed. And then I've heard the exact opposite, where people were going to fail, you're doing one too hard, too hard sets per muscle group. And they're like, everything changed when I started doing high volumes and stopped going so close to failure. And I've heard enough of these stories that I just believe them, I think the literal Right, right. Everybody's right, everybody's getting jacked, and everybody's doing things. And so ultimately, my sense of this is that whatever method it is, that speaks to you, and keeps you motivated to train and keeps your body healthy, is probably the one you should do. And so for many people, that's, you know, hey, going close to failure, maybe your form gets compromised, and you end up tweaking your shoulder, tweaking your low back, jacking up your knees squatting, whatever it is, maybe you're not the type of person that should be doing one or two hard sets to failure for each muscle group, maybe you'd be much better off doing 20 to 30 sets at four to six RSR whatever. And so, you know, kind of dialing it back to that actual study. And the thoughts on the effective reps model is the effective reps model essentially states that the closer you get to failure, the more stimulus you get. And I don't really think that that's arguable. Right? Right. The part of it that is arguable are the people. And there's plenty of them out there that say that nothing prior to five reps from failure is stimulative. And that's kind of kind of absurd to even like I almost like struggle to even fathom that, that somebody could say that, because they're literally saying at that point that somebody could do 100 sets, but because they're all at six reps from failure, that they're not going to get any gains. And like, you can just look across the board through anecdote at the way football players have trained for years or the way Olympic lifting athletes train like explosive athletes, and they almost never go to failure. They're just idling technique gets all submaximal work styling technique. All these people are jacked. And so yeah, I think that, you know, there's a number of misconceptions out there about that. But the one thing that isn't arguable is the closer you get to failure, you get more stimulus. But what you do with that is up to you and how many sets you decide to do is going to be dependent upon how close to failure you train.

Philip Pape 14:40

Yeah. And the reason I'm asking you all these is it is kind of a little bit of a bait, but you knew it was coming because that's what you get all the time to get into these other principles of why these things matter. I think Eric helms said recently on his show, like science looks at the norm right looks at the population mean, no matter how big of a sample size you have, what the takeaways are, what may work for most people most of the time, well, that leaves a huge percentage of people that it doesn't work for, like you said, and it's going to vary. So number one experiment right over time, don't just assume that one thing is going to work for you. And I'm sure you see that as somebody who programs, you know, for people, but keeping your body healthy, you know, I didn't start this young, like you or maybe others have, there's a lot of folks who listen here just getting into this, like in their 40s, or 50s. And whether you started young or not, recovery is a huge issue. And you know, we get injuries and surgeries and life and stress and all these things that pile on, I would rather find something that is modest volume, slightly submaximal. That doesn't kill the joints, but still gives me like you said, the 98% progress. A friend of mine, were joking about these nuanced things that the 20 year olds bring up or like that that might be for the point zero 1% elite, that's not you. Like that's just shut up? At least not yet. Now, yeah, not now. Go for it. But it's not yet. Right. So have your views changed at all over the years on the failure versus submaximal training, like, as you've aged, and as you've trained all this time? Yeah, I've actually gone through

Bryan Boorstein 16:08

a number of iterations of training philosophies through my life. So I have a number of different experiences. If you don't mind, I'll just take you through like, very brief version of it. But when I first started in 1997, I stumbled across a group on a community chat board at the time, if you know, there wasn't social media, so it was a easy board. And the group was called power in bulk. And the big voice in power in bulk at the time was a gentleman named Paul Carter. And we all know Paul Carter. Now, Paul Carter is a very antagonizing voice in the industry. And I think that, you know, I personally don't agree with a lot of what he says these days. But one thing that he did that I really think was great for me starting out was he told me back in the late 90s, to basically pick six big movements. And it was a it was a horizontal push a horizontal pole, a vertical push a vertical pole, a squat and a hinge. And he was like, just do those six movements get brutally strong at them, when you can, you know, bench 300, squat, 400, deadlift, 500, then you can start thinking about body part splits and volume manipulation and all of these things. And I thought that was incredible advice. And so that's exactly what I did. If you fast forward about 15 years, I found him on Instagram, seven or eight years ago, and I was like, Hey, dude, like, thanks so much for that great advice you gave me so many years ago, you know, and he goes, Oh, that was stupid advice. I would never give that advice again, you know, and I was like, Well, I thought I thought it was really good advice. But anyway, so I did that for three or four years, basically, three times a week, full body with those six big movements spread across the week. And I got great results. Nothing to complain about. I learned how to train hard and it was super important, mostly like kind of five by five or three by eight type stuff. And then after that I got distracted by the muscle magazines would probably be the best way of saying that as as many of us do. And I followed some of the like Muscle and Fitness body parts splits for a while. But luckily, I then stumbled across a program called Max O T. And God, are you familiar with Maximus? You know, I haven't heard of that one. Alright, cool. So Max O T is a program, you actually can still find it online at as T sports science. It is a body part split program. But what they promoted was low volumes, so is six to nine sets per week per body part. So it's like, you know, Monday's chest day, Tuesday's back day, Wednesday's legs type thing. But it was six to nine hard sets per muscle group, and everything was in the four to six or four to eight rep range. Depending on isolation movements were like the eight, six to eight rep range. But all compounds were four to six. And every set was taken to absolute failure. But because the proximity, or because the volume was low, you could get away with taking all these movements to failure. And then they also did something that was pretty unique at the time, which is that they promoted a D loader Recovery Week, every eight to 10 weeks. So this program I ran off and on literally until 2009, I would say I ran that program off and on for like six to eight years. And I thought it was extremely productive. The best gains that I made through my entire training history was was on Maxa tea. I think that could have been partially because that's when I was turning into a man. And you know, I was eating a bunch of food at the dining hall at college and all that stuff. Yeah, you can't just just give credit to the program. But it did happen to to be that timeframe. After that, I found CrossFit in 2009. And I went through about seven years of competing and coaching in CrossFit. And so that was a completely different stimulus to anything I had done prior. Pretty much everything you do in CrossFit is sub failure because it's all about maximizing efficiency over Time. So that was definitely different. And then when I popped out of CrossFit in 2016, there was this whole new evidence based sphere. And it didn't exist. In the past. There wasn't Brad Schoenfeld and all of these different research RCT research controlled designs and, and all of this stuff. And so I became obsessed with it as as the nerdy science brain that I have. I was like, Oh, my God, like my brain was exploding 20 years into training, I was like, felt like a newbie in the gym again. And the first thing I stumbled across was RP. And Mike is retail. And so that was really my first experience into purposefully not training to failure, and purposefully trying to prioritize volume over proximity to failure stimulus

Philip Pape 20:45

to fatigue ratio. Yeah,

Bryan Boorstein 20:47

yeah, exactly. And, you know, working on exercise selection as an important component, like, does this exercise give me better stimulus to fatigue and that exercise, and so it opened up this whole new world of framing how I was training. And so that was interesting, because I found myself continually trying to push volume. And the way that they programmed at RP and they still do is to the best of my knowledge, is they start mesocycles, far from failure, and then they progress them closer and closer to failure until you reach a point where you're basically at failure, you fatigue is super sky high, and then you d load you recycle and repeat. And so I did that for about two years. And I think it was fine. I, I, I would say that if anything, I lost motivation. It was like the volume was so high, and the fact that you could start a mesocycle at one hour of training. And by the time you add volume, and add proximity to failure and all this stuff, you finish a mesocycle. And your sessions are taking two hours. And they're doubly as hard as they were in the beginning. And so to me, that didn't make a ton of sense. Then I kind of went the other way, and began slowly reducing volume and slowly working closer to failure, which has sort of settled me on the philosophy that I've used for the last few years now where, for the most part, I stick between six to 10 sets per body part per week. And one thing I actually do that I think is semi unique is I took from the RP approach is this progression of proximity to failure across the cycle. And I also in a sense, progressive volume, but I do it very differently than they did. So they would progress it by adding sets week to week, what I tend to do is I add intensity. So we'll go from two reps from failure to one rep from failure to failure by week three, and then on movements that are conducive to it, we'll go into partials and then we'll do rest pause sets. And then we'll do drop sets, and then we'll do lengthened sets. And so each week from three on, we're adding intensity techniques to further bias the length and position to further add stimulus. But we're not doing it by adding a full set, we're just adding like a little teeny dose of stimulus. And, and I've found this to be extremely productive for me. And for clients for the last three years or so.

Philip Pape 23:11

Man, there's so much there. And I could identify with a lot because of your age. And when you've been alive, you're sort of at the ground floor of all of these shifts that we've seen over the last 20 years, from the muscle magazines to the training with the maxilla team and I was in CrossFit for eight years myself. So I get it I started at around 2011 and wasn't very consistent with it. But first time I ever touched a barbell was in CrossFit. So give them credit for that. It's funny because it sounds like you've come a little bit full circle back to the max O T stuff you were doing the 60s and like roughly the same volume per body part, roughly the same kind of in that low end hypertrophy, high end strength range, let's call it you know, my coach is Andy Baker, you probably know any Baker. He's been on the show a few times. But a lot of what you're talking about reminds me of like conjugate style programming does a little bit of that, right? Where you're testing your one RMS to get the intensity, but then you have this dynamic work. That's at a much lower, you know, that's submaximal later in the week. Anyway, it's cool stuff. So with the RP, Renaissance periodization stuff, that's that's all RPE based, right? You were saying? Yeah, well, I

Bryan Boorstein 24:14

mean, that's what I started back when I came out of CrossFit like 2016 1718 That was kind of my RP time. Yeah.

Philip Pape 24:20

So then you mentioned intensity technique. good segue. You've been recently talking about that a lot, too. And I love that stuff, too. Man, the rest, pause the dog crap, rest, pause and drop sets and things like that. So you've been talking about metabolic stress intensity techniques, techniques, like mile reps and drop sets. Why is that principle important? Is it mainly for saving time and taking advantage of the training to failure theory we just talked about or is it? You know, is there another reason to incorporate them?

Bryan Boorstein 24:47

Yeah, you know, I think metabolic stress is certainly a piece of doing rest pause sets and drop sets that that you wouldn't get by just doing straight sets. But I do. I do. would say what you said May is probably more of the reasons in that, it ensures that you're close to failure, especially for clients like intermediate clients that I'm working with that really need to know where failure is, there's nothing like getting them to failure, then making them do rest, pause or drop sets, drop sets can be a little tough, you don't want to drop too much weight, or else it just becomes they're not really reaching failure because of metabolic fatigue, or mental fatigue. It's just like it burns too much. It's like cardio. Yeah, exactly. But when I do drop sets, I tend to drop very little. So the typical drop that you see in studies is like 30 to 40%, I'll usually drop 20%, at most. And so it's usually getting about the same amount of reps that you would get from a rest pause. So if I'm doing a set of eight reps to failure, close to failure, and then I do a rest, pause, where it's 20 seconds rest, I might get three reps, maybe four, if I do a drop set, and I dropped 20%, but I don't take any rest, it's basically the same thing, you're getting four, maybe five reps. So you're still in that zone, where you can actually be confident that you're hitting failure without it being because you're mentally weak, or it burns too much, or it's metabolic fatigue, or something like that. So I love both of those. For that reason, I also love them for time saving, which you also noted, because, you know, everything comes back around in the industry like drops, this used to be so popular in the muscle mag days, you would always be like 10 864 Plus drop set back to the 10 rep weight, like that was that was the way we trained, you know, 26 for increasing weight, you hit a setup for failure, dropped the weight back to the 10 go to failure, again, that was so standard, and it was so effective. And then there was this this period of time and the evidence based space where it seemed as if drop sets got this really bad rap because you're reducing load, which means you're reducing mechanical tension. And mechanical tension is the primary driver of hypertrophy, or whatever. But in reality, my statement is always the muscle is a dumb piece of meat. And it only knows tension. And it doesn't know if you're like this, this is an example, if you're doing a hack squat or some sort of squat pattern movement, and you're taking long as rests at the top of every rep, you can do more weight. But that doesn't mean you're getting more mechanical tension that if you did constant tension reps and therefore used less weight, your your muscles only know the tension that they're receiving. And so when you look at it from that perspective, things like drop sets and rest pause sets and these other intensity methods that force weight reduction, they should be in theory just as effective as doing the straight sets with higher quote, mechanical tension, because you're using higher loading, right? And it seems like the new studies are showing that man, if you look at I think it was Max Coleman was part of the group that led the recent study on drop sets and meta analysis. And they found basically the same thing that I mean, I could be misquoting this, but I think it was five sets of one top set plus four drops was the same as doing three straight sets. Which if you think about it, man, like that's a way faster approach that way faster. Yeah, do a set rest three minutes, do a set rest three minutes, right, you can do one top set, drop that shit four times, and you get the same effect as doing three straight sets. So at least when it comes to hypertrophy, I have been a huge fan of those techniques. And then the other thing I've been using a lot is the progression into lengthened work. So many people that are into lengthened work, they use it from the get go and week one, it's like, Hey, we're biasing this lengthen position go. I really think it's something that you can use as a tool to elicit a higher stimulus throughout a mesocycle. So why not get those easy gains in the beginning in weeks 123 When you're sensitive to the stimulus, and then use the lengthen work more as a tool to increase that stimulus as the mesocycle drags on. Man,

Philip Pape 28:54

I love all that just even the fact that you can use these techniques to teach yourself about failure. You know, my coach has a lot of these programmed in just yesterday I was doing earlier in the week, xe presses with rest pause and it's like, you get 10 then you get five then you maybe get to you know, on that last set, you're just like I can't lift it. So obviously there's some stress there and some and you get a pump and everything so it makes sense.

29:19

My name is Tony, I'm a strength lifter in my 40s Thank you to Phil in his Wits & Weights community for helping me learn more about nutrition and how to implement better ideas into my strength training. Phil has a very, very good understanding of macros and chemical compounds and hormones and all that and he's continuously learning. That's what I like about Phil. He's got a great sense of humor. He's very relaxed, very easy to talk to. One of the greatest things about Phil in my view is that he practices what he preaches. He also works out with barbells he trains heavy you notice that he has made but he trains heavy so if you talk with him about getting in better shape eating better, he's probably going to give you some good advice and I would strongly recommend you You talk with him and help you out thanks.

Philip Pape 30:04

Descending sets are another one actually where you know, you work in a rep range, and you simply drop the weight 10% with the full rest period. So, rather than an intensity technique, you were talking about the fact that we should still be able to get just as much hypertrophy even at a lower weight, a lower load. That's another example that comes to mind. That's not an intensive technique, right? But you can at least let's say you're, you're in the eight to 12 range, and you hit eight or nine reps, you drop the weight after the rest period, and now you still hit it eight or nine, you're still training close to failure just had a lighter weight. What's the counter argument, though? You mentioned for hypertrophy, what about the argument that intensity has its own benefits in terms of load for, say, motor recruitment? Is that reserved mainly for strength and specificity in that regime, like with the big movements, or whatever? Yeah,

Bryan Boorstein 30:50

I mostly speak from a hypertrophy angle. And so I'm getting the sense of the fact that you work with Andy Baker, I'm getting the sense that you have more strength or neural based goals along the way,

Philip Pape 31:01

which I'm actually running his bodybuilding track right now. Okay, personally, it's a six day like a lot of what you're taught, okay, actually, but yeah, but like,

Bryan Boorstein 31:08

even conjugate and stuff like that, like, I don't use I don't touch conjugate type stuff. But yeah, I mean, everything that I come from, from my perspective is in optimizing hypertrophy. And so if we're talking strength, or neural adaptations, or skill development, or anything along those lines, yeah, the game changes for sure, I mean, rest becomes extremely important, because you need to optimize efficiency. And if your like, the biggest problem I see with strength work is people going too close to failure. And when they go too close to failure, they're compromising their motor recruitment. Like, you can just imagine, you know, what a deadlift looks like at rep eight to failure versus rep one, when you're seven reps from failure. And there's not a single person in the world that can make rep eight look exactly the same as rep one, or maybe like, you know, professional powerlifters. And whatever can but but the majority of people out there, there's going to be something that is compromised in the technique, even if it doesn't look like it to the naked eye, even on camera. There's something internally, that joint angles are just slightly shifting, different muscle groups are coming in to do the job. And so it seems to me from what I understand of the research, that the strength gains are just better, manifested further from failure. And I remember a study a number of years ago, that compared four sets of 10, to five sets of and noted to five sets of 10 to 10, sets of five or something along those lines, it was something where the volume was matched. But the group that was doing the sets of five was using their 10 rep max. And what they found was that hypertrophy was relatively equivalent across the groups, I think the group that was going to failure at 10 rep sets actually did better. But the group that was doing the sets of five, with five RSR on each set, they got significantly better strength gains. And so that just speaks to exactly what I'm saying. I mean, you just have to move perfectly. My basketball coach used to always say, practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect and bad practice makes bad habits permanent. And and I think that that applies to, to to strength training as well.

Philip Pape 33:20

So is there is there a logical leap from that to say to saying that, maybe you don't need deadlifts in your programming, if you're going for hypertrophy, like and I'm just making a big logical leap. Right, but because it's such a big taxing movement that requires that motor, you know, yeah, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, no,

Bryan Boorstein 33:40

I don't program deadlifts for for clients. I haven't programmed to deadlift for a hypertrophy client. In since I left CrossFit, really, I mean, literally, it was Mike is retelling the Renaissance periodization group back in 2016 17. When I started following that, they were big on that train of why would you do deadlifts when you can do RDLs or stiff legged deadlifts and get more for the target muscle with less fatigue to the other muscle groups stimulus to fatigue ratio, right. And so yeah, I haven't programmed deadlifts. I don't personally do deadlifts. I brought them back into a cycle for myself during a strength cycle maybe two or two and a half years ago. And for like, two weeks, I was like, Yeah, deadlifts. This is awesome. I haven't done deadlifts for so long. And then by week three, I was like, What am I doing? Like I am so taxed.

Philip Pape 34:30

There's so toxic. Yeah. So,

Bryan Boorstein 34:33

yeah, I don't really think they have much of a place and a hypertrophy program, I think that I could program them in in an intelligent manner. And if someone was really adamant that they wanted them in there, right, they could be used as a hypertrophy movement. But it's like it's so ambiguous as to what they even train you don't know do you put it on like upper body polling day do you put it on in ham day like, like, where do you put it? Because it just it trains everything. It's true

Philip Pape 34:59

is through and and I've seen that rationale of like, sometimes they're included in that particular programs just because people want them just want to do them. Or maybe they're trying to have their cake and eat it too. It's like a power building, you know, program where you maintain some of that specificity for strength, but then also build muscle. But you're right. It's so fatiguing for us older guys, too. Like that's one of the areas you really get hit. When you do too many deadlifts. Yeah, I can tell from personal experience. Cool, man. So I know. Here's the here's another segue then since you were just talking about hamstrings and leg work is a lot of folks are working in their home gyms and I know you, you offer programming for folks who you know, online, who may be going to their own commercial gym or at home, speaking to the home gym goer, so to speak, legs are one of the toughest, at least in my experience in talking with my nutrition clients of trying to get a good well rounded workout because now you need like eight different machines, if you're trying to get everything done. Like for I personally have a vertical leg press and I have a leg developer which is more than most people have in their own gym. We have a rack and maybe maybe a leg developer. How does somebody with you know, and I joked chicken legs? Who wants to build those clauses hands, get the bigger legs? Do it at home? What are your, like two to three most effective movements or equipment or whatever? Yeah,

Bryan Boorstein 36:17

you know, okay, we just did an episode on the train, prosper where it was, it was quads training. And we cool, we basically discussed how you would optimize your quad training for a commercial gym for a home gym. And then for people that only have dumbbells. And so there's three different tiers of kind of how you could go about this. And really, what you just want to do with the home gym, is try to emulate the commercial gym as closely as you can. And so when we're like us, for legs, specifically, we're not just looking at quads, so I'll give you two or three movements for quads, two or three movements for hamstrings. Yep, cool. So for quads, the first thing is to focus on what is your big compound squatting movement going to be. And so you don't have a hack squat machine, you don't have a leg press, you don't have a pendulum squat. But we have two really cool variations that you can do at home. And the first most accessible easiest one is simply the foam roller hack squat. And this was an incredible creation that came out of COVID times basically, a you Jack a foam roller up behind your back horizontal, you put it in the bottom, crease your low back, you put your feet out in a proper squat stance, and you squat down and you grab some dumbbells off the ground, and then you just keep squatting. And the foam roller against the wall essentially acts as a back support for you. And that was a primary movement that I did for six months during the beginning of COVID. And I found that it was extremely productive for quad development. Now if you don't want to do that movement, or you want some other variation, a heels elevated back squat is an extremely quality movement as well. I love doing the heels elevated back squat with a three or four second eccentric with a two or three second pause at the bottom with your ass your ass on your ankles, basically, getting as much knee flexion forward as you can, which is the benefit of the heel wedge there. And then high bar high bar you're so high bar. Yeah, so this is this is the caveat is when you ascend up, the first thing that people want to do is stick their butt up in the air and let their torso fall over. But by doing that, all you're doing is shifting all the tension to the glutes. So what you're gonna have to do is you're gonna have to drop the weight about to 60% of what you would use for a standard back squat without a heel wedge, just doing it for load. And you're gonna now we're doing it for hypertrophy. So what I would I would, here's an example, I would squat, safe 365 For six would be my best like, just hey, I'm going to try and get strong high bar squat. When I went to the heels elevated squat the way that I just talked about it with the slow negative the pause at the bottom, the big chest coming up not making making sure my house doesn't fly up first. I dropped the weight first down to 225. And I stuck there for a few weeks. And then eventually I worked up to 265 for sets of six to eight. But that's a paltry weight compared to 365 You're literally talking like two thirds of the weight and it took me months and months to even work up to that. So I would drop the weight to 60% maybe even less dial in that form your quads will be screaming at you sounds

Philip Pape 39:22

like a man. But is that is that a do? Can you just have weightlifting shoes with plates underneath? Is that enough? Or do you need like a really steep ledge? Yeah,

Bryan Boorstein 39:30

you can do weightlifting shoes with a plate underneath that's fine. The the wedge, even the wedge that I would recommend would probably be a 20 degree wedge. And so that's not like a super super high wedge. I find for most people if you have weightlifting shoes on, you can use a 10 pound plate which isn't even that high, and that'll give you enough knee flexion for most people. If you have really bad ankle mobility, you might want to use a 25 pound plate, but now you're looking at stability concerns potentially. So you do kind of have have to walk that fine line there.

Philip Pape 40:01

And it sounds like a safety bar be a good option for this safety bar would be the best. Yeah, I

Bryan Boorstein 40:06

mean, if you have a safety bar 100% Yeah. Okay, so those are the first two quad movements. Then you have single leg squats of all varieties, you have front foot, elevated split squats, rear foot, elevated split squats, walking lunges, glute dominant, or quad dominant, and that basically just is determined by your torso and Shin angle. So just much like the heels elevated back squat. If you want to target your quads, you want your torso super high up and you want your knee super far over your toe. If you want glute dominant, you send your torso forward, almost like a hybrid RDL squat type movement. And then you try to keep your front chin vertical. And if you can keep your front chin vertical, and how to send your torso over your knee, you're gonna get a lot more glute priority from that exercise. So, so single leg squats of all varieties. And then the last quad movement that you need is something for the rec FEM. And since you don't have a leg extension machine, the go to that I always uses sissy squats. Some people aren't huge fans of sissy squats. So we'll use the reverse Nordic or some people call it the bodyweight leg extension. Kind of hard to explain, but you basically kneel on the ground with your feet behind you, and you kind of fall backwards, but you fall backwards without your hip angle changing. So your torso should form a straight line through your quads, and you fall back till your butt touches your heels, basically. And then you come forward again, without breaking your hip angle at all. Yeah, that'll

Philip Pape 41:37

really stretch out that. That quad tissue there.

Bryan Boorstein 41:39

I'm like, exactly, yeah, so those are the those three quad movements are gonna slay. And then hamstrings are not super challenging. The one thing that you really struggle with with hamstring work without a commercial gym is leg curls. And so the primary movements that we've used in this situation are different hacks to do them at home. My favorite one is actually a slider leg curl. So you put your heels on a towel on a floor, and then you'd kind of lift your hips up, and you just basically slide your feet back toward your butt and then slide your feet back out and slide your feet to where your butt and slide your feet back out. That'll get you a nice hamstring stimulus. You can also do it with banded leg curls. So you can set up a band anchored against the bottom of your power rack, and you can do lying leg curls that way. The problem with the band is it often loses tension at the length and position. And so I've found if you connect two bands together, so you have like a really thick band connected to a slightly thinner band, and then you're basically further away from the anchor point as a result of that, but it kind of evens out the resistance profile for you a little bit. And then another one you can do if you have a rower like a C two rower at home, is you can put your heels onto the seat of the rower and with your back off the edge of the back of the rower on the ground. And essentially do the same slider leg curl where their heels are coming toward you and your heels are going away from you type thing. So that'll get you that RDL stiff legged deadlifts you don't need a commercial gym. For that you just need a barbell or some dumbbells. And then if you have the ability to do any sort of, like you mentioned, a glute ham developer, that that's kind of a semi typical piece of equipment that you might have in a home gym. If you can do any sort of those hip extension, back extension type variations, that will also give you a really solid glute and ham stimulus there as well. So now you've got six exercises, three for quads and three for hams that, you know, should be really solid to get you some good gains.

Philip Pape 43:36

Those are good. And to clarify what I meant developer, it's literally just an attachment on a incline bench to do leg curls, leg extensions. Okay, which day, which is kind of chintzy because like you have to literally stack the whole thing to get to the load you want. And it's wobbly, you know, but um, I really miss the GHDs at the CrossFit gym. That's one thing that they had loads of, yeah,

Bryan Boorstein 43:58

you know, another cheap piece of home equipment that I would just encourage most people to buy if they're at home is a 45 degree hip extension. And, like, if you go on Amazon, there's models for anywhere between 102 $100 and you'll get a ton of use out of that. I mean, very, very effective. I used one for a number of years, just one of those cheap models. And just last year, I upgraded to a like really solid $500 Nicer hip extension 45 degree, but those 100 to $200 ones do the trick, and you'll get plenty of stimulus from those two.

Philip Pape 44:33

How does that compare to a 90 degree? What's what's the difference?

Bryan Boorstein 44:37

Yeah, so it's basically in where the movement is hardest. So when you're using the 90 degree like GHD, but the hardest point is going to be when your torso is horizontal to the ground. So the hardest point is going to be at the top of rep, and because of that, you're going to lose a bunch of tension at the bottom. So when you're hanging off at the at the stretched position where all the muscle is lengthened. You're just not going to get a significant stretch when you're in one Another 90 degree ones. But when you're in the 45 degree, the hardest point of the movement is actually again, where your torso is parallel to the ground. And thus, the top of the movement is actually slightly easier. So it's more of a mid range overload. And you continue to get solid stretch in your hamstrings and glutes, even at the bottom of that rep. So in most cases, if people have the option, I would prefer to have them at the 45 degree.

Philip Pape 45:23

And then last thing, going back to quads if you have a landmine attachment, which is pretty simple thing to get. What do you think of trying to emulate Hack Squats there?

Bryan Boorstein 45:32

Yes, landmine Hack Squats are great. Most people have a problem once they get strong enough getting the bar up to their shoulder. So a couple hacks there is you can put a you can slide a bench, really close to the anchor point of the landmine and then prop the landmine up against the bench. And then that way, when you walk under it, it's basically already at shoulder height. So that works pretty well or rather not at shoulder height, because then you wouldn't be able to squat with it. But you basically go under it into the bottom of the squat and then stand up. So you kind of have to mess around with the where the bench is set. Another thing you can do is you can set your landmine to sorry, I just got a call, you can set your landmine up on a J clip. So that the so that you can just load it right there and then kind of take it off the J clip onto your shoulder from there.

Philip Pape 46:20

Yeah, make make sense that Yeah, I do mine on spotter arms. Same way, you know, to get it to work. Alright, cool, man. So we want to talk about cardio as well. Yoga. Yeah, sure. Okay. Yep. Cool. Yeah. Because I know listening to your show even your own thoughts on that have evolved a little bit over time. Let's let's just break it down. Right. Because when people, there's there's camps when it comes to cardio, and I don't think there should be like, I think cardio is great, to some extent. And it all depends on your priorities. And you've talked about this as well, depends on what your goals are. But there's a lot of misconceptions about the interference effect, losing gains, you know, how do you prioritize incorporate cardio, what's the point of cardio like all of those things, as well as fat loss versus when you're not in fat loss. So I know, I just threw a lot at you, but just I know, you can handle it. What are you know,

Bryan Boorstein 47:10

cart. So interference effect, I think is something that really has changed over time. And it was a number of studies, initially, maybe seven or eight years ago that made people scared of cardio, and I can't reference them specifically at this point. But they were showing that there was in fact, an interference effect. And then there were a series of studies. More recently, in the last, I want to say three years, four years. And they demonstrated that if the programming is done in such a manner where you have a Priority A and a Priority B and one of them is I want to say taking closer to failure. But like you wouldn't take cardio to failure, it's just this idea of one you're working harder on and one you're working not as hard on, they actually can be really helpful to each other. And in fact, now it seems like it's even gone further. And you have this, this view of the bodybuilder athlete that is so under recovered and are not under recovered, but under conditioned, that they're having to rest excessively between sets. And it's not just that they're doing less volume because of this excessive rest that they need to take. But it's then bleeding over into their body's inability to get parasympathetic after the workout. So they're finishing their workout, and they're so out of shape cardiovascularly that their body stays in this heightened sympathetic nervous system state for not just hours, but days like affects you while you're sleeping. The next day, your body is literally not recovering fast enough between weightlifting sessions, because your cardiovascular fitness is so poor. And so it seems intuitively that if you're able to increase your cardiovascular fitness, at least to like a decent base level, that this then improves your recovery adaptations allows you to do more volume in the gym, and thus, you know, elicit better gains across the board.

Philip Pape 49:03

Now that that is interesting, I have to admit I hadn't heard I don't know you talk about it. I just had it didn't sink in. You know, I listened to the podcast, a million podcasts and for some reason, that exact issue of the parasympathetic nervous system and recovery. Now I'm really interested and I'm interested for selfish purposes as well because I used to be in CrossFit like I said, high vo two Max super conditioned and I've done I do way less cardio today than back then. And I work from home. So like you know, there's no excuses. I'm just saying that that's the state of things right now. First of all, how do you measure that fitness level? So that you know what you need to incorporate? Like what are the objective measures whether it's vo two max or HRV or whatever else? And then what is kind of a reasonable you know, you've got life you've got so much time you still want to be training for five, six days a week, amount of cardio to fit in to get past that threshold. Yeah,

Bryan Boorstein 49:52

I'm not so convinced that vo two max is the best variable to use because you're never actually going to Your vo two max or needing your VO two max to recover between sets or even to get parasympathetic after sessions. I think the better metric is zone two, which I think that we can use as a general viewpoint of functioning of your mitochondria. And your mitochondria are the little things, your energy cells that are working on repairing reproduction all the time, like they're always in the background, just typing away, you know, writing new code for your body. And so what I tend to use with people and with myself is the amount of watts per kilo that you can generate while keeping your heart rate in zone two. And so zone two very generally, is going to be peaked like the high end of Zone Two for most people will be 180 minus your age. And that's very, very general, I usually start people at 180 Minus fifth minus their age plus 10. And then have them work up to 180 minus the age, but I'll generally have them work. So I'm 41, we'll just say I'm 40. For easy math. 180 minus 40 is 140. So that's the top of my zone two. So I tried to do my zone to between 130 and 140 beats a minute. If I'm above 140, I feel like I'm getting into zone three. If I'm below 130, I feel like it's pretty easy sledding, and I'm probably in the high end of zone one. And so I tried to do my zone to work in that range. And then I look at what are the watts per kilo that I'm able to generate during that exercise. Now, most people may not have access to watts, that's something you would have on an exercise bike or on a rower or something like that. So essentially, there are other metrics you can use, but you just want to see the output that you have improved over time, while your heart rate stays consistent. So if I could say generate 1.5 watts per kilo, when I started, this is actually my story. My peak, zone two was 1.5 watts per kilo that was like right at the high end, I was like pushing the boundary. So I weighed 90 kilos, I could do 135 Watts, and that was my zone to now, a year and a half later, maybe almost two years, I am up to two watts per kilo. So I'm doing about 180 to 190 watts. And my heart rate is still in the same range, right in that 130 to 140. So I've essentially improved by 33%, or something along those lines. And I've noticed along that same trend, significant improvements in recovery time, sleep quality, HRV resting heart rate, general sense of well being energy throughout the day, ability to focus, all of these kinds of subjective metrics that we feel on a day to day basis have improved as my zone two has improved. Got

Philip Pape 53:01

it? Okay, so no, you are you're actually I was not asking the right question. But you answered the question I was attending, which is how can you how can you measure it to see that the improvement is, you know, to go after the improvement during your activity? And then like you said, there are other measures after the fact like your HIV resting heart rate and so on that that are and biofeedback that are other indicators. Do you know if that the watts per kilo is it's not something we can measure on like a ring or watch, right? It's like one of those

Bryan Boorstein 53:26

show? No, no, but you know what, like, like, you just want to improve your n of one. And so if you have if you have a bike where you can monitor speed, like an indoor trainer bike, and it doesn't give you watts, some bikes do, but it gives you speed. And so you're like, okay, my zone too, right now is that 14.7 miles per hour, well, then you're just trying to increase from 14.7 miles per hour while keeping your heart rate consistent. So you just need to find some subject, something that's objective, some objective metric of performance that you can track on your preferred cardiovascular source modality. And then just try and look and see that go up over time. Perfect, man. Cool. Yeah.

Philip Pape 54:13

I know myself, I've been telling myself I do want to incorporate more cardio now especially get a head into a fat loss phase here after nine months of building which is, but but a lot of people ask this question all the time and my own clients, nutrition clients, it's like, no, we don't just want to walk but like, how much cardio do you do and how does it interfere or not? Now what about during fat loss when you know, recovery capacity is lower and intake is lower? How does that change if if at

Bryan Boorstein 54:41

all? Yeah, I mean, it definitely increases the interference. I mean, I so I do think that you, if if weight training or muscle mass or strength or any of those barbell pursuits, are of top priority to you, then you need to be very cognizant about where you put your cardio training. especially if it's more vo to max or interval style training, I generally consider zone to work to be somewhat cathartic, almost like a pseudo recovery modality. If you're pushing zone to work to the point that it's super fatiguing. I think you're doing it wrong, I think you're doing it too hard. So my general view is that if you're doing Zone Two, you should be able to put that more or less anywhere, although I would caution against putting it really, really close to leg training, certainly not like directly before leg training, but probably also not directly after leg training. But I think anytime like within a few hours, and having a meal in between should be fine or a separate day should be fine. Even like if your quads are sore, and you go do zone two, I don't think that's a problem. In many ways, it actually kind of helps flush some metabolites out of there and helps your recovery. So zone two, I don't think you need to be quite as specific with but any sort of interval work where your legs are really actually working against a resistance. That's not just fatiguing for your legs, it's fatiguing for your entire being like your whole body becomes fatigued, your mind comes to see there's psychological fatigue associated with it work. And that detracts from your ability to focus and put primary energy into your leg training. And then the same would apply if your cardio modality is something that works the upper body, like if you're rowing or you're doing the ski ERG or you're doing one of these other upper body dominant, not dominant, but where the upper body is a large part of the cardiovascular experience, you probably should be cognizant of that as well. Like, I probably wouldn't go row rowing intervals and then go do a back workout or something along those lines. So So yeah, I mean, there's a few things you need to be cognizant of. And then I didn't actually address one of your questions, which was what's the dose that you need to do for this? And so it's very gold dependent. You know, Peter Attia? Are you familiar with him? Oh, yeah, sure. Yeah. He often talks about for health and longevity, having for zone two sessions and one like zone four zone five hit type session each week. And I think that that's kind of a high end for people whose top priority is something involved with weightlifting. I think that's great. If your goal is longevity and wanting to live the longest, healthiest life that you can, that's that's where I tend to fall these days, I've sort of gradually moved away from optimizing physique and more to optimizing, longevity and lifestyle. So I do try to hit what Peter at TSS most weeks, I think for somebody that is really trying to prioritize physiques or, or strength sport, that getting to zone two sessions is a bare minimum, and maybe one hit zone five type session. So you'd have three cardio sessions a week at that point. Cool. Yeah,

Philip Pape 58:01

I like that. All right. Cool, man. I know, we're almost out of time here. Do you have time for like one or two more questions? Sure. Yeah, go for cool. Because you did want to talk specialization briefly. And where I was going with this is a lot of folks are running, we'll call it a template program or a standard program, or even if they have a custom program, and they're just not happy with a certain part of their physique. For guys, maybe it's biceps, right, it might be back might be shoulders, what's kind of a basic specialization approach in terms of like, adding on to your program or supplanting the existing part of your training, just to accelerate a specific body part? Sure,

Bryan Boorstein 58:39

because it's kind of becomes a runaway train at that point. So what we're what I'm actually doing, Jeff hain, who is our mutual friend, he's a client of mine, I'm working one on one with Him. And so he and I have been in deep nerdy talks as we do, about how to optimize physique. And over the last couple of years, the data driven guys have been doing a lot of, and I don't want to say it's research because I don't think there are specific research studies on the topic, but intuitive analysis of, of the topic. And they've kind of ascertain this idea, that rotating specialization cycles where you dial up volume for two or maybe three muscle groups, and then dial down volume for the other five or six muscle groups would be an extremely effective way of going about this. Because we know through research that maintenance volume or the amount of volume you need to maintain gains is so low like literally studies have shown it could be as low as 30% of what it takes to get there. So say it took you 15 sets to grow your legs, you might be able to maintain your legs on five sets. So if we harness that knowledge, and we say okay, well if volume is going to help us grow more and we know we can maintain on less volume, we can jack up the volume on a few muscle group groups, pull down the volume on the remaining muscle groups and do this in kind of a cyclical manner where we spend two to four months on a few different muscle groups, and then switch the rotation, spend two to four months on some different muscle groups, et cetera, et cetera, just kind of roll through like that. And so that's been the way that Jeff and I have been approaching it. Now for a number of months, we've done a lats and triceps specialization. We're currently in a chest, biceps and lateral delts specialization. And we'll probably just continue rolling through these every few months and following those parameters. And then so in that same vein, there's a number of different levers, you can pull, we talked about volume as one, but you can prioritize proximity to failure. So you could take some movements and work them closer to failure and other movements further from failure, you could prioritize exercise order. So you could have some exercises at the beginning of the workout and others at the end. And that's one of the things we're actually using right now with Jeff is, it almost seems taboo to put bicep work before back work. But because back work is no longer a priority for us. That is literally what one of our days looks like we have three bicep movements, then we have a lateral delt movement, I think, or something a tricep movement, and then we have a back movement. So back is literally like the last thing you're working. Whereas in most cases, you would always put back first and then finish with biceps. So you can prioritize exercise order, you can do volume, you can use frequency. So you could train muscle groups more often and put other muscle groups less often. So there's a number of kind of these different levers that you can pull, and just need to figure out kind of how you want to set it up and manipulate it. Yeah,

Philip Pape 1:01:43

that makes a lot of sense, right? Especially the exercise order. People don't often think of that they always think, Oh, do the big lift first or, you know, like, don't write, you don't want to pre exhaust this, but like you said, well, doesn't matter because this is our priority. And also the point that that maintenance doesn't take nearly as much. It's just like when we're in a fat loss phase. And we have to get reframed the mindset that you're not actually going to build new muscle, but you're going to maintain and guess what, it takes a lot less volume. So now you're trying to maximize recovery. Take advantage of that right for a while. Really, Colin? All right. I could talk with you for hours. I mean, it's why I love your show, you know, listening to just all these topics, and I knew I would learn a lot. And I'm hoping the listener learned a ton as well. Is there anything you wish I had asked? that I didn't cover today?

Bryan Boorstein 1:02:24

Yeah, you know, I knew this question was coming in. And I honestly think that we had a really great conversation. There isn't exactly anything that I think you'd ask. I feel like, you know, if we want to come back on we can. One topic that I think is been really interesting, and I've received a lot of questions about recently has been from new dads, and how they would change their training as a result of having a newborn or having a really busy schedule with kids sports practices, or like any other number of things that come along with, you know, being a dad and being busy and having kids and trying to balance everything. So maybe a topic for the next time we get to chat.

Philip Pape 1:03:02

I love it, man you are already inviting yourself on which is good, because I would have done it myself. No, no, that's good. And give me a topic too. So love it. All right, well, where do you want people to find out more about you and your work? Yeah, so

Bryan Boorstein 1:03:16

primarily, you can just find me on Instagram at Brian Borstein. Like you said in the intro, I have two group trading programs. Evolved training systems is kind of my original one. But I don't put a whole ton of time and effort into it at this point. It's more of like I call it my science lab because it's a much smaller population compared to my other programming group, which has Paragon training methods. And so evolved is cool because I get to kind of do what I want. I don't have a business partner. And the programming is what I want it to be. I can get really kind of intimate feedback from the members who have been there with me for a while. And then Paragon is my other larger company we have 15 different programs at this point, we have a full gym, a home gym, and a dumbbell only program for five day four day or three day programming. So literally whatever your equipment is, and whatever your desired training time per week is we have a program for you we have a great community with tons of coaches in the group to kind of help answer questions for you do form checks and and stuff like that. So awesome,

Philip Pape 1:04:19

man. Yeah, definitely include that in there and everyone listening I mean Brian, Brian knows a ton about this, definitely check out the podcast E train prosper as well. And um, check out his stuff because it's you're gonna learn, you know, 1010 things every time you're exposed to some of his content. So keep it up, man. This was a pleasure. It was awesome to have you on I appreciate the conversation today.

Bryan Boorstein 1:04:38

Yeah, I appreciate you having me. Thank you.

Philip Pape 1:04:42

Philip Pape 2/6/24 Philip Pape 2/6/24

Ep 144: How to Overcome Yo-Yo Dieting and a Toxic Body Image to Build Your Fittest Physique Ever

How do you overcome the demons of yo-yo dieting and negative body image? How can strength training be a gateway to a better physique and mindset? Philip sits down with Isis Alvarado, a long-time member of the Wits & Weights community and a fitness and health enthusiast with a 15-year journey marked by personal struggles and triumphs. You’re going to learn the real, tangible strategies that Isis used to overhaul her relationship with food and their body. You’ll discover how strength training can be a gateway to a better physique and mindset. Most importantly, you’ll learn how to apply these lessons in your own life, breaking free from the myths and misconceptions that hold you back in your fitness journey.

How do you overcome the demons of yo-yo dieting and negative body image? How can strength training be a gateway to a better physique and mindset?

Today, Philip (@witsandweights) sits down with Isis Alvarado, a long-time member of the Wits & Weights community and a fitness and health enthusiast with a 15-year journey marked by personal struggles and triumphs, which is exactly what they talk about today.

Isis isn’t just a fitness enthusiast; she’s a warrior who has battled and triumphed over yo-yo dieting and negative body image. As an adult, she broke free from the chains of restrictive eating, discovering the world of strength training and evidence-based nutrition. This wasn’t just a physical transformation but a mental and emotional one. Her story is about resilience, solid information, and transformative impact.

In their conversation today, you’re not just going to hear another transformation story. You’re going to learn the real, tangible strategies that Isis used to overhaul their relationship with food and their body. You’ll discover how strength training can be a gateway to a better physique and mindset. Most importantly, you’ll learn how to apply these lessons in your own life, breaking free from the myths and misconceptions that hold you back in your fitness journey.

Today, you’ll learn all about:

2:57 Childhood environment and its impact on health and body image
5:42 Experiences with yo-yo dieting and beliefs about genetics
7:52 Early adulthood decision to stop dieting and relationship with food
15:32 Catalyst for shifting to strength training and changing fitness approaches
19:03 How the right information led to significant results in less time
28:44 Influence of strength training on physical, mental, and emotional well-being
34:46 Shifting food relationship from restriction to flexibility
40:24 Strategies for finding reliable, evidence-based fitness information
50:57 Impact of fitness journey on personal relationships, career, and goals
53:54 Practical advice for listeners starting their health journey
57:56 Future goals in fitness, health, and helping others
1:00:47 What question did Isis wish Philip had asked
1:04:19 How to connect with Isis
1:05:36 Outro

Episode resources:

Episode summary:

Embarking on a fitness journey can be a transformative experience, not just for the body but for the mind and spirit as well. This is the central theme of the podcast episode featuring Isis Alvarado, whose tale of resilience, strength, and joy is nothing short of inspiring. Throughout the episode, listeners are treated to an in-depth look at the many facets of sustainable fitness and health, debunking common myths and exploring evidence-based strategies for lasting change.

The conversation begins by exploring Isis's early challenges with weight and the negative impact of diet culture. Growing up in a family where weight issues were prevalent, Isis was introduced to dieting at a very young age. This early exposure to the dieting mindset had a lasting effect on her relationship with food and her self-image. As we delve into this part of her story, it's evident how societal pressures and family influences can shape our health narratives from a young age.

Transitioning into the topic of weight loss misconceptions, the podcast takes a critical look at the misunderstandings surrounding genetics, metabolism, and the often underestimated caloric content of snacks. This discussion sheds light on the complexities of managing weight and emphasizes the need for a balanced approach to nutrition. The conversation also touches upon the emotional and psychological impact of restrictive dieting, revealing the turmoil caused by labeling foods as 'good' or 'bad.'

The transformative power of exercise and a shift in mindset come into focus as Isis shares her journey from grueling workout programs to the discovery of weightlifting. This chapter of the episode highlights how finding joy in exercise can change one's approach to fitness and overall well-being. The podcast also celebrates a listener's success story, which echoes the importance of a strategic and informed approach to fitness, showing how knowledge and proper planning can lead to more effective and enjoyable workouts.

Community support plays a crucial role in any transformation, and the podcast emphasizes this through a discussion on the motivating and supportive online space created for listeners. The sense of belonging and the ability to share experiences with others on similar paths provide a valuable source of encouragement. This sense of community is further enhanced by the podcast's focus on the empowering effects of strength training, not only for the body but also for mental clarity and self-perception.

The latter part of the episode delves into the mental and physical challenges of entering a gaining phase, an often-overlooked aspect of fitness. This transition requires a different mindset and approach, highlighting the importance of setting realistic goals and trusting the process. As Isis discusses her experiences and the changes in her mentality, the conversation becomes a testament to the value of embracing the journey and focusing on long-term goals rather than quick fixes.

Navigating through the overwhelming amount of information and misinformation in the fitness world is another significant theme of the episode. The podcast encourages listeners to be open to accurate information and to share helpful resources, emphasizing the readiness to act on evidence-based strategies. This discussion is crucial for anyone trying to sift through the conflicting advice that often circulates in the health and fitness industry.

The episode concludes with a powerful message about the comprehensive benefits of consistent and sustainable fitness habits. It's a reminder that transformation is possible at any age and that the journey towards better health is ongoing. The final words of the episode express gratitude for the insights shared and the impact they have had on listeners' lives, encouraging everyone to continue on their path to self-improvement.

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Transcript

Isis Alvarado 00:00

For me now I'm trying to embrace the fact that it's just the journey that I'm enjoying and that is just bringing me closer to everything that I always dreamed I could never have.

Philip Pape 00:13

Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in. Wits & Weights community Welcome to another episode of the Wits & Weights Podcast. Today I am thrilled to sit down with ISIS Alvarado, a longtime member of the Wits & Weights community and a fitness and health enthusiast with a 15 year journey marked by personal struggles and triumphs, which is exactly what we're going to talk about today. ISIS isn't just a fitness enthusiast, she's a warrior. She's battled and triumph over the all too common demons of yo yo dieting, and negative body image. Her journey began in a family where weight struggles were the norm, leading her to her first diet at the age of 10. This early challenge set the stage for a life altering journey through the highs and lows of self identity, health and well being. But here's where the usual trajectory was turned on its head because as an adult, ISIS broke free from the chains of restrictive eating, discovering the world of strength training, and evidence based nutrition. This wasn't just a physical transformation, though. It was mental and emotional. And her story is about the power of resilience, the importance of having solid information rather than misinformation, and the transformative impact of a balanced and sustainable approach to fitness and nutrition. In our conversation today, you're not just going to hear another transformation story, you're going to learn the real tangible strategies that ISIS used to overhaul her relationship with food and her body, you'll discover how strength training can be a gateway to not just a better physique, but a better mindset. And most importantly, you'll find out how to apply these lessons in your own life breaking free from the myths and misconceptions that hold so many back in their fitness journeys. ISIS. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Isis Alvarado 02:18

Thank you for having me here. I'm very happy to be here.

Philip Pape 02:22

Yeah, I'm so excited to have you on. Because you you've got an incredible story to tell. You've also been very engaged with our community and have a very bright positive spirit, which is appeals to me for sure. And I'm sure our listeners. So let's go way back in the time machine to your childhood, because that's where your early self identity was shaped right? That you told me that you quote came from a family where most were overweight. And even in my home where we would eat healthy homemade food all the time. My mom was overweight. And I consider myself overweight too, even though it probably wasn't. So how can you share what it was like growing up in an environment where, you know, weight struggles are prevalent? And that how that shapes your early perceptions of health and body image?

Isis Alvarado 03:08

Well, yeah, ever since I can't remember. I remember hearing my mom and my aunt talking about diet, about that diet that made them lose like 10 kilos ate with that doctor, you know, like so it was like kind of romanticizing this diet culture, losing weight, and they will see it as you know, like this, for example, this diet that it was the Atkins diet, something like the keto diet. So they, they always thought about it, about how successful it was they lost 10 kilos, but they would never say that actually, they gained more than that way. So it was not as though they weren't caught up in this vortex of dieting, losing weight, and then getting it all again. So I grew up here in this. And when I was about 10 I did my first diet with the full support of my family, of course, and I was praying for losing weight. And even I remember doing one diet when I was like maybe 11 years old, not even tall, which was almost not a thing. It was called the cabbage soup diet. So yeah, yeah, you're supposed to lose like four or five kilos in a week because they weren't eating anything was your soaps, they were surviving on 500 calories a day or something. Course. I did that diet for three days.

Philip Pape 04:28

Yeah, and then you gave up

Isis Alvarado 04:30

right away, right? We'll add up all my life. That was my mindset, you know, like you need to diet to lose weight. But at the same time, it was normal to never be successful like to always lose diet and like lose weight and then gain it back again. Because it was not seeing us as a lifestyle, you know, a sustainable lifestyle but at something you had to know a goal to reach and then what happens like we don't care you just lose the weight and hope Fully pray that it was the body that would never have.

Philip Pape 05:04

I mean, your story is so relatable to probably everybody, everybody listening to this and myself included have been somewhere in our past where we lost weight getting back lost again and back. And just the very idea of what it means to lose weight. First of all, losing weight being the goal, like why is that the goal, we just have been trained to be that that's the goal for some reason, even though we're never happy when we do that. Secondly, how we lose weight, and then it never, we can never maintain it. So it's like this on off switch. And then the kind of I got a little sense of disgust almost when you said you you did a diet at the age of 10. Because that I don't know how common that is for listeners. But I know women especially have a lot of struggles in their childhood with an attention on weight from their parents reflect on that now knowing that that happened, like do you know a lot of people who've been through a similar situation where they were officially dieting at the at that young age? Yeah,

Isis Alvarado 06:00

for sure. Yeah, I come from a country where you know, like, the standards are very unattainable. I come from Venezuela. And like, that, even the people, like men who compete on the men's beauty patients, they already look amazing, and they make them lose more weight. There is this, this idea of beauty that is unattainable. So yes, like, with all my girlfriends, we always talk about diet, even at this age. And at that time, it was pretty much normal. Like no, like, if you say to your parents, I wanna lose weight, I want to go on a diet, they are like, happy for you. Like why not that that's what they thought it was? Good. You know. So, like, reflecting on that. It's, it's actually, for me, like, the biggest damage that it did for me, was the toxic relationship with food that I started developing from that age, because I would say, food as something that will make me be fat, you know. So creating that mindset that you need to eat as little as possible to as much as exercise as possible, in order to look a certain way, until I made that decision that I'm not going to diet anymore. I'm gonna work out because I want to be healthy. I want to live a long life. But I'm not going to restrict myself anymore. So I'd be you know, Chelsea forever.

Philip Pape 07:28

Yeah, yeah. No, I hear you that and you're right, just the very image of certain foods like bread or potatoes. in some people's minds. It's like that equals fat. And, you know, I have clients all the time where I say, Well, have you eaten potatoes? Like, that's a great option for satiety during fat loss. And like, Yeah, well, that's carbs, and, um, and fat loss, and you seem to eat potatoes, like, we just have these links to food. So alright, so then let's fast forward a little bit. Because then in your teenage and college years, you said, that's when you started this yo yo dieting, right? This, lose weight, regain weight, lose weight, regain weight. And you said that you believe being fat was in your genes. And the only way we mean like genetics, right. And the only way to keep away from that was through a lot of food restriction and exercise. A lot of listeners definitely believe, or I'm sure they think that their genetics are sort of hardwired and they're everything. And they're restricting food, and they're doing lots of exercise, especially cardio. So tell us about your life at that time.

Isis Alvarado 08:27

Well, I did believe it was in my genes, because when my aunts were, you know, overweight, even my mom. And as I said, my family in my family, wait, very healthy, we rarely out, etc. But then I realized, you know, my mom was, you know, I call the time snacking and stuff. And that adds up, you know, so she was actually it was not on the genes. Then at some point, I started the thing that I damaged my metabolism forever. And that was worth the work. I did so many diets that now it may I grow it. But now,

Philip Pape 09:03

yeah, hold on, hold on. You said hold on. You said something very interesting about your mom how you thought so you saw her as overweight, but you thought she was dieting, but she was really just sneaking the food in and so she was just over consuming food. I think that's important, right? Like we all we all lie to ourselves in that way many, many times that we just don't know how much we're eating. Yeah, exactly.

Isis Alvarado 09:21

And it's something that I discovered after I started tracking food that, you know, something that things like that harmless little snack, it's actually 500 600 calories. And if you're already in your calories that your body should be eating with your three meals. And actually, that's that's a lot. You know, like if you do two or three times a week, which is very often, you know, some people they snack, like all the time and some people they never do like my dad, he will never snack. But my mom yeah, she's in the kitchen and she's always you know, like, eating here and there. So of course, now that I realize is that yeah, I mean, she He went overweight because he was eating more calories. And was he was burned? Is not that, you know?

Philip Pape 10:05

And then that leads to, well, now I'm overweight and I got to go on a diet, right? I have to just like cut all this weight as fast as possible to get back to some magic number. Yeah,

Isis Alvarado 10:14

exactly. And that made me believe that it wasn't possible for me to be lean, because it was in my genes, I would always say that even you know, eating, I was getting fat from air, you know, but the truth is that I was, I was restricting myself most of my life, you know, like, on and off, because when you restrict yourself, then you have periods in which you restrict yourself to become Feel free. And, you know, the thing is that I was just making my metabolism slower. And at that time, and that's something I started also to understand with the macro factor and thinking your, and nature going up and down. And I realized, of course, I was just my body is just a perfectly good, functioning body that was adapting to the little calories I was given. And I should actually be thankful for that. Because my body was very good to adapt to that. And you know, I love not your new thing, or the way my body was just that acne, like you're eating less now you'll find some with that. Yeah,

Philip Pape 11:18

yeah. And that's another great point for folks listening is that you could be even if you're not losing weight, you could be in this perpetual low energy state where you're eating less than your body needs, but not so little that you're going to lose much weight. And now you're just under fed your metabolisms lower. And you think that you have to eat way less calories than you do for losing weight, or whatever it is. So yeah, all these revelations are important. But let's continue the let's continue getting close to the present. Because I want to, I want to understand the experiences you went through because in early adulthood, you said that you promised yourself you were never going to dye it again. Because you love food and the restrictions that you thought you needed to be lean, were just too much to happily handle. And you started to exercise intensely and regularly and eat quote unquote super healthy, right? Lots of veggies, restricting carbs, having a huge list of foods you love but shouldn't eat because they make you fat. And you thought you could never be lean because it would take too much effort and you couldn't sustain it. So again, clean eating, cutting out carbs and you know foods is good and bad. Just this is your relationship with food at the time, right? Still, not the healthiest.

Isis Alvarado 12:25

Not not that not healthy at all. It was a very unhealthy actually not only for my body, but also mostly for my mind and you're always it's not just it's not only that you end up binging on food more often than not it's also the impact of those changes in your emotions you know, like in your in your mind you know, you feel like you're a failure you feel that you're never gonna be able to do it you know why I can control myself always be like, what's going on? Like? I do very well in other almost all areas in life and Letson mess with food

Philip Pape 13:07

Yeah, falling out quote unquote falling off the wagon all the time right or whatever labels we use.

Isis Alvarado 13:11

Yeah, it made me feel like out of control which I never found in any other areas in my life. It manifests are out of control. So powerless, so frustrated Yeah. So it was all this emotion that he was creating. Not only like the extra calories that I was consuming, because my body was trying to compensate but always okay, it was in my mind,

Philip Pape 13:35

chaos in your mind. And what did the exercise look like? Then you said you were exercising intensity? This is before you got into lifting? What did it Yeah,

Isis Alvarado 13:42

what I was at the end when I start to hate doing 3040 50 minutes of heat, but I went through almost everything I could find and I was just I wanted this one called insanity probably heard about it. Oh, yeah, sure. All for a left off was

Philip Pape 14:02

I was hoping it was a Beachbody one of those programs

Isis Alvarado 14:05

Yeah, it was dance for like hour already. The warmup was like giving me exhausted and I'm not. Wait, am I doing like that? So yeah, I then so

Philip Pape 14:17

it wasn't fun was it probably wasn't fun, either. No,

Isis Alvarado 14:20

I was not enjoying it. I was. And I actually I ended up like, taking to hate for the longest because it was short intervals of time. So I know in my mind, it was nice. 30 seconds you can do 30 seconds. Right? I think so it would feel easier. It will feel more manageable. You know, but I never really enjoyed it. I did and I felt very well afterwards. And I could see that you know, able to help my body somehow I never looked like really fit but I will say that it looks so

Philip Pape 14:57

nice as I can. I mean doing CrossFit for a year. I can relate to that were like, because people have asked me that, well, where are you in shape? And I said, Well, conditioning was there, like you had pretty good heart health probably. Yeah. And and you burned a lot of calories, kind of, but your body probably compensated a little bit as well. But it's because you're just working so much and putting all this intense work in. And we're not saying hits bad, right? Like even as a lifter, a few hit sessions can can be a great thing if you, especially if you can make them enjoyable, but that was your only mode of exercise, which sounds like torture. Okay, so now let's get to the fun stuff we come to like about a year and a half ago, you started lifting,

Isis Alvarado 15:36

right is that about a year and a half? A year? Less than a year and a half a year?

Philip Pape 15:40

Okay. Yeah. And you said that there was a significant shift in your approach to health and fitness. Now, as an adult, you're in less than a year and a half ago? What was the catalyst? What was the thing that led you to break away from the cycle of the eating stuff, you know, restrictive eating, and you're you're dieting, but also the training.

Isis Alvarado 15:57

So first, it started with the training, I was doing it at home, I had worked some you know, after the pandemic, I ended up buying a few things here and there. And then I, I met this friend who was a personal trainer, and she had been training all her life. And she told me, let's work out together a couple of days a week. And I was happy to because I never had friends who wanted to work with me. On the contrary, and not like I had to back them. And so I started working with her at the gym, and we were weightlifting, because that's what she was doing. And I started I realized I actually liked it. Way more than any other kind of exercise I actually liked. You know, Korean liked it. So I started weightlifting with her. But we were just William follow any strategy, we were just there. And she's like, we're just conditioning and now like, in next few months, we'll start with a strategy but I think she really didn't want to get there because he's been doing that all her life. And now she's on her lazy years.

Philip Pape 17:00

Oh, she's just maintaining, so it was more of exercise, not training, we had to actually

Isis Alvarado 17:05

see what it's like so eager to for me to join her because she was not able to bring to the team. Okay, an example activation for so I started and I liked it. So I started to read more about weightlifting, I you know, that's when I discovered your podcast and all and I started, I started to realize that, okay, first I need a strategy. I cannot just go there, to the machines, I can actually I was doing more than what I'm doing now. I was doing seven, eight exercises, you know, like, each time and like pushing very hard, but at the same time not tracking anything. So it was depending on how I was feeling that thing. So I started to realize, okay, I need a strategy. Then also, I became again, open minded to taking care of my nutrition in with an objective in mind with that strategy as well. And I have found the calories before here and there, but I didn't really see. I mean, I didn't know how many calories I had three, you do these calculations online, but they don't work for you. I mean, regulations I read online, were not correct after you know, using manufacturing for a while, so I didn't really see resource. So eventually, I match this together and say now I'm gonna try I started studying and listening to podcasts rather beginning taking notes. And I started doing progressive overload. I designed like I didn't design I took it from different sources, my workouts, I started, I bought macro factor started to follow another calories, they told me and in like maybe four months, I've seen more change that I have ever seen before in my life. And the AFR has been like a fraction of what I actually what I usually have to do to see any kind of changes in my body.

Philip Pape 19:03

Okay, okay, okay. I'm beaming right now ISIS, okay, I have to interject, I'm beaming. Because this is like, what I wish everyone who listened to the show would do is exactly what you're doing is you took action, and you started me took notes, which I love. You've been to the show, and hopefully got a few nuggets, which makes makes me really very proud. And I still am surprised when I hear people say that, believe it or not, I still very surprised. We were like, Yeah, listen to your show. And it actually helped change my life. That that makes me feel great. But for you to say that it helped you get more control and do it in a way that felt like you weren't sacrificing anymore, and you're able to get progress. Like that's what that's what we want. That's what people want out of this journey for it to be a fun thing for it to be a productive thing that doesn't require all this, you know, guts and sweat and discipline and willpower. So I just congratulate you on like taking that action. You made it happen for yourself, but you took the information so, so thank you and I want to applaud you for that.

Isis Alvarado 19:59

Thank you. And now I wanted to find any also to tell you how grateful I am with everything that you share. And like, You're very generous with your time and the the information, also getting people together, I usually don't belong to any online communities. And if I do, I'm just there like knocking on the desk. And you'll have created that space in which I feel also inspired and motivated to share my experiences with other people, you know, like I do have some kind of virtual long distance connection with other people who are going through the same journey, as we all are.

Philip Pape 20:44

That's beautiful ISIS, and I've heard that from a lot of people. And I agree, like in the sense that I'm also in a lot of Facebook groups, and some of them are not very active, or it's just a different fields, a different culture. And having come from, like the world of CrossFit, I was very much missing the community aspect of that, because I work from home, but also with the podcast, knowing that people would reach out and say, Hey, I listen to this. And it helped me out. I'm like, Well, how can we get more and more people who do that who listen to the show, to kind of interact with each other? Because every day we see people come in, who are where you were, like two years ago, or five years ago, they come in, and you can see their questions are like very basic questions, that I'm always surprised that they don't know the answer to but we've all been there. And so our community just said, hey, at any dive in with a very positive attitude, you you'll chime in and somebody who's, you know, an expert lifter will chime in, or whatever the answer is, to improve all of these things. So yeah, I'm glad you said that. And I want to go back to you ISIS with the the recent transformation, you said, because it's, you said you had all this chaos in your mind before, right? Yeah. What it what is your mental state now? Like, how has it changed, and what specific strategies allowed that to change?

Isis Alvarado 22:00

Well, I, you know, and I have self diagnosing, diagnosed myself with that I have a toxic relationship with food, and that I am an emotional eater, et cetera, et cetera. But then also, I realized that man, the biggest trigger for me, was my food restriction, I never worth an emotional eater in INR, I was going through some trauma, or bullying or wherever it takes no, my own my, my relationship with foods started, like the toxicity of it started by restricting the food by restricting the quantity and by restricting the diversity of food I could eat and by relating eating certain foods, so being fat, which is something I never wanted to be, and now that I'm eating more, like, I feel always, I never feel hungry, that I'm eating a lot of carbs. And that I'm eating probably more protein that I never I had never eaten before. It that the desire to be in shape, almost never there, that for once and for like, the other thing is that I also wanted to thank you for it, you talked so much about the sustainability, that it finally made a weight inside of my mind. And for example, when I would bench I would just try to compensate. And the next two, three days, do it at least as little as possible to balance that out. Right. At some point, I you know, I realized that this is not sustainable. You know, like, one day, you just fall off the wagon, which happens to absolutely everyone, even with people who are not, who don't have any younger, unhealthy relationship with food, you'll hear them talking about how they finished the bag of Doritos or whatever, you know, and you am here punishing myself because I did that. Instead of just, it's okay, I ate 1000 calories extra. So what you're not like, maybe if I'm trying to lose weight, it's just gonna, you know, it's gonna delay slow you down a tiny bit. Yeah, and there is no end goal anymore. You know, like, it's just, it's, this is just a process for me. So it's not like before, when with this diet mentality, I want to lose, thank you. And that was the end goal, you know, now is like, I'm just trying to make myself stronger. And hopefully, that will also shed the extra fat. And, you know, just, it's more like a vague goal, like the call is actually in the process to follow this process in a way that is sustainable for my body and for my mind. So is this content I can contact constant mentioning of Sustainability also shifted something in my relationship with food in my binges, you know, like, now if I do, it is very, like rare is just an isolated event before I would bench and then I would try to restrict myself in the next two or three days to compensate the calories. So then I would end up painting again one day or two days later. So it would be always like three, four in a week. Instead of use one, just take it you know, because also, when you see that, you know, black and white, this is bad, I did something wrong. It also brings, you know, the guilt, the feeling of not being enough, but like what's wrong with me. So that makes you self sabotage again. So it all, you know, like all this process has also helped me a lot, mentally and emotionally in my relationship with food. I'm starting to see things with a completely different field. And I don't like now when the last time I didn't, it was the day that my period came. I just wanted to do like eight adventures. I was like, what just happened? Why? And then maybe you can say, Ah, okay, now exactly. It's that I don't and I don't feel bad about it. It's like, okay, whatever, you know, like, I just life goes on. I'm not gonna change anything. Absolutely. And

Philip Pape 26:28

I says you have such a level of self awareness. And you're right that like the buzzwords we use, like sustainability, I say it all the time. And I think it can be it can be overused when you don't explain what that means. And I think you did a really great job explaining different facets of what we mean by sustainability. So what you basically said was, overall, that I heard is, it's part of your life, it's part of your process. You don't think of it as dieting or not dieting, and you talked about the binge restrict cycle, you can't binge on a regular basis, if you're not also restricting on a regular basis to have that cycle. So if you're simply accepting that you can enjoy the foods you like, incorporate them, plan for them. Obviously, we don't want to eat to excess or do anything in excess. We don't want to do that. But your body won't feel great when you do that. Anyway. So incorporate the things you love. Like you said, You're not You're hardly ever hungry, right? And, and maybe you still get golf, golf a little bit here and there because of hormones, because it doesn't matter, you accept it, it's reality, and you move to the next day. You also said that the goal is in the process. I love that quote. He said it's just a process, the goal is in the process. And every day we can have goals, right? Whether it's training, or you know, hitting our macros or making sure that we are satisfied or non fitness related goals as well. I agree. That's how we make things sustainable is just going after those on a regular basis, and then pushing the comfort zone a little bit on the areas where we want to improve. Last thing you said was the no guilt from the black and white mentality. So again, same philosophy, same principle of just do things in moderation, right? Do things in a way that that you can live with sustainably, so you don't have that dieting mentality. And then finally, you mentioned getting stronger, which we all love here. Because if you have a goal to be athletic or strong, or you know, build muscle, it allows the food to support that. And then you're never really restricting. And of course, you can go through a fat loss phase. And you know, we talked about that all the time. Sometimes you do have to do a level of calorie restriction with it for a fat loss phase, but you're still not restricting the types of foods you eat. So thank you for kind of laying the whole masterclass out of sustainable sustainability, ISIS. So yeah, that was just a lot of commentary. So let me ask you another question. Because strength training was critical. And it still is critical to your transformation no more P 90 intensity workouts right. Now so how is it tell us about your training? What does it feel like? How has it transformed your your physique and your mindset? Is it because it's okay to want to have like a great looking body, you know, and I think you do it in a healthy way. So tell us about all that.

Isis Alvarado 29:09

So Well, as I said, I really enjoy my my training. I really love them. I always look forward to going to the gym. And I I didn't realize how much of an impact it has in my mindset until I had to stop for a couple of months, and then vomit and I was also going through some difficult times that were making it a little down. And the moment I went back to the gym, I did that first training after two months, I felt so empowered. You know before I was feeling like I was letting go is he does not bring me down but I was feeling like a little like a bit like a victim. I just did that and I don't know what it is in my brain. I feel like I feel normal again. You know, like I feel like myself again. So definitely that I enjoyed that I enjoy. Like when I'm training, I like the fact that it permits I can meditation, because I have to focus on one thing like Todd, which is like, you can do 10 reps or whatever how many reps I can do is like you can do it, my mind goes down where for a minute, like, for a millisecond, then as my strength goes way up, I think about like, whatever you're not like, I have to boom, it's also it's a mental exercise for me. And yeah, I really am planning my work as now, I plan in the way that I'm going to do the rest I'm going to it. I don't know, more or less. I don't know if that answers your question. It

Philip Pape 30:49

does. No, it appeals to me and the whole structure behind it. Because what you're saying is that, you know, just just so people are listening who may not be as familiar, we are talking about training, where you have a plan, you have sets, reps, movements, yeah, loads all planned out, and then executing on that. And there's a sense of empowerment and control, but I liked it you. You could compare what it was like to not train for a while after having trained and come back and realize, whoa, like I really want this in my life. Because it's just mentally invigorating. And you feel powerful and strong. And I I've seen I have never seen anyone who didn't feel that way, to some extent about strength training. Now, that's different from exercise and like randomly working out and all this high rep stuff and cardio that's different than what you're talking about. You said this is like a form of mindfulness. It's a process you focus, like, there's a common theme here. So you definitely answered the question. I want to inspire people that training can be more, it's more than just building muscle and getting strong. It's a lot of other things.

Isis Alvarado 31:49

Yeah. And actually, like, if you're lucky enough to do it, like to do it with a friend, which I was doing before. Hopefully, I go back to do it in a few months. With my friend, it's also time for socializing, I really enjoy that our friend time in our images that they just, you know, catch up on thing than the weekend or whatever. So if I like it, then you know, like, you have a lot of time for yourself now that I'm going to learn is like, a lot of me time. Okay, I have somebody says I will have to do some online shopping in between that.

Philip Pape 32:25

That's so true. Yeah. Yeah, I

Isis Alvarado 32:27

love it. I know they there is nothing I don't like about strength training. And yeah, it empowers me as well. And for sure, in my physique. I've never seen such a change in my life, even when I have lost like 20 pounds with a diet or something. I've never seen that change. Because actually, when you're used to losing weight without strength training, your body's just becoming smaller, but very slowly, right? So you get in the state in the mirror, maybe when you see a picture of how you were before you're like, oh my god, did I look like that? You know, like you realize you have changed. But with strength training now well, following of course, following a plan a strategy. So in like, three, four months, like now when I'm at the gym looking at, you know, the actual, like exercise, say like doing something and looking at myself in the mirror. I don't recognize my body. Yeah. Is that that's also that definition. So yeah, just yet change with strength training, because it's like, you are not only losing fat, you're building muscle. So you're like, becoming a little smaller, which is not very noticeable, maybe, but then muscle. It's not the Opsahl. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, it's actually very motivating. I mean, not that I need it to go to the gym because I'm lucky enough to understand to really love everything about it, but I get a few I'm not, you know, so much into it. Yeah, no, it's

Philip Pape 33:52

true. Yeah, I agree. And, I mean, I can see your delts and shoulders right here popping, you know, like on the screen. I mean, it's fun to have that physique even when you gain some weight.

34:03

Hi, my name is Lisa. And I'd like to give big shout out to my nutrition coach Philip pape, with his coaching I have lost 17 pounds, he helped me identify the reason that I wanted to lose weight and it's very simple longevity. I want to be healthy, active and independent until the day I die. He introduced me to this wonderful Apple macro factor I got that part of my nutrition figured out along with that is the movement part of nutrition, there's a plan to it and really helped me with that. The other thing he helped me with was knowing that I need to get a lot of steps in so the more steps you have, the higher your expenditure is and the easier it is to lose weight when it's presented to you like he presents it it makes even more sense. And the other thing that he had was a hunter guide and that really helped me so thank you below.

Philip Pape 34:46

So like I wanted to ask you about that. Have you gone through a dedicated gaining phase where you actually gained a little fat as well and and what was that like or have you not done that yet? That's the thing that started okay. Yeah, okay.

Isis Alvarado 34:58

Yeah, remember, I gone from this mentality that putting away these bad days has been like, a challenge for me. I just I was in that guard for like four months. And I decided, Okay, I think I'm ready to go into maintenance, which I'm, I'm now in maintenance a little above maintenance. And I'm still like, I mean, I'm very happy with all that I ate. Very exciting. But I'm still here. I'm like, mentally getting there to go into the gaming thing. I mean, it's gonna be scary for me, but I trust the process now. 100%

Philip Pape 35:33

good. Yeah, no. And I recently did that episode, right? Why I'm getting fluffy before I get jack. So hopefully it helps. That

Isis Alvarado 35:40

one that the one that inspired me to say, Okay, it's time, let's go, like, a month in losing weight is just gonna slow down my metabolism. And, you know, I already look alien enough. You know, before I when I started, it was like, very hard for me even though recommended also like to start, but my mind is still like, you know, reluctant to like if I see myself fluff in the mirror to it about my maintenance calories, but now it's like, Okay, enough. You're looking already, you know, fit enough. It's time to go into the gaining phase. Yeah, which is what I'm doing. I've been like two weeks in at maintenance. So I'm going to stay two more weeks, and then I'm going to increase a little bit more considerably the calories. So I can Okay, cool.

Philip Pape 36:27

Yeah. And if it's your first gaining phase ever, you're probably gonna go go after something like, point 2% A week or something like that, maybe maybe a couple pounds a month gain is what we're looking at, yeah,

Isis Alvarado 36:38

I got both pounds a month, that will be something I'm comfortable with. Exactly,

Philip Pape 36:42

yeah. And, you know, figure, if you did that for six months, that's anywhere from six to 12 pounds, but you're gonna gain, you know, six pounds of muscle or something like that, which is incredible, a credible amount of muscle that you're going to gain. And what I'll say is like, when you're at that phase, where you You're, you're kind of maybe not beginner anymore, but you're getting into intermediate phase, now, you still have the chance of somebody recomp along the way, where, you know, you may gain more muscle than you think you may not. And it's it's embracing the things that you can control and that are a measure of your success in that phase, which is not leanness. It's, it's your lifts, right? It's your muscle, it's even when you want to look in the mirror, it's like focusing on your biceps and your shoulders and things that can be defined even while you're gaining weight, and not focusing so much on your belly ears or other spots that may gain a little more fat. It's, you know, part of the process, you

Isis Alvarado 37:33

know, I'm still hoping that I can, you know, even if I go into client surplus, I will still keep losing weight. And by then,

Philip Pape 37:43

yeah, you may lose your fat while while gaining muscle, fiber

Isis Alvarado 37:46

and muscle because that they can enter my even though I started like lifting like a year and a bit ago, I actually started niche there with a strategy four months ago, or months ago. So I'm still a beginner. So I still gain a lot of muscle.

Philip Pape 38:05

You definitely can you definitely can. What are your thoughts, though, on if you do start to gain some fat? So for example, are you going to take body measurements like your waist circumference, biceps, things like that, so that, you know, whether it's muscle or fat?

Isis Alvarado 38:19

Well, now I'm trying to embrace the fact that, you know, it is a journey, and doesn't matter. And you know, like, you know, we all want this and this idea body, right? Focus on that, for me is now I'm trying to embrace the fact that it's just the journey that I'm enjoying, and that it's just bringing me closer to a physique that I always dreamed of. And I could never have. So of course, it's gonna, as I say, I have a lot of resistance to go into even maintenance. I was like, especially because it's so easy, that it's like I feel I could do, I could continue on account for months on end, because he didn't feel difficult for me. Right. Or to everything. You know, all I have done in my life before that. So it's it's an emotionally challenging, challenging for sure. But I'm willing to trust the process, because it has worked so far. For sure.

Philip Pape 39:19

And I can't wait to see your gains and see you get super stronger in that phase.

Isis Alvarado 39:24

They all said they want the right.

Philip Pape 39:29

Yeah, it's and it's funny because you say that it's going to be its own challenge, right? Because people always think of dieting and cutting and restricting as as a challenge, so to speak in the dieting mentality. But when you are gaining weight to gain muscle, it has its own challenges of doing that from a nutrition intake and carbs and performance perspective, which is kind of fun, right? Because it's the other problem of like, I gotta eat enough. And you maybe and you haven't experienced that yet. It sounds like but when you do it'll be another Yeah, it'll be nice. Yeah. I wouldn't say yes. Yeah, yeah. And it has its own, it'll teach you a lot of things. As far as like you'll, you'll learn about yourself even more about the meal timing and carbs and stuff like that. And if you start to fall behind macro factor will let you know, right? Because you'll start to flatline. Keep keep us up to date in the community as you do that, you know, post some screenshots and stuff, because we'd love to see that. So, all right, I wanted to ask about information and misinformation, because one of the things you mentioned was, you know, took all those years before you finally found like this podcast, and probably some others like it that you listen to now, how do people navigate through that today, knowing that there's so much junk on social media, there's just so many, the things that get all the attention are usually the extreme fringe ideas, or they're like the 1% of like cold baths and red light therapy, and like, all this stuff, that just doesn't matter versus the basics, how do people navigate through all that? How do you do it?

Isis Alvarado 40:59

I didn't know anything for a long time. I thought it wasn't easy, I thought it's not it can be easy. So this is something that, you know, like, actually goes against a lot of what I believed, you know, that I was not gonna be hungry, and I that I was gonna work out on these four days a week, you know, for a very short intervals of time. So it's, you don't really, I didn't really believe we could work until I decided to give it a try. And I think, you know, I still have many friends from my childhood from my college years, who are still struggling, like with weight issues. And they are like barely eating, exercising a lot. And even sometimes I try to tell them, it seems like they're not ready to late. And so I guess, when you are ready, the information will find you. And you will be open to receive it. Because even my friends can see that it's working for me. They just done. They they want to go on one hour, run it very little, etc. I'm like, Okay, I mean, I guess it's not about the information. It's about you being ready for that. Ready?

Philip Pape 42:18

Yeah. Oh, that's so good. Yeah, all the information

Isis Alvarado 42:20

in there. And maybe this information passed through my eyes a while ago, and I didn't need them. Because in my mind, my mindset at that time was thinking that that's not possible. At manatee, you know, like, eating that much. Just working out that little. Yeah.

Philip Pape 42:38

Oh, that you know that I just thought of something when you said that. Because for years, I did low carb diets. And anytime I would see anything that said anything to the contrary, like, no low carb diets are not necessary. Carbs are good for performances. I would just my confirmation bias or whatever bias I had was like mineral that can't be right, like, and so I would ignore anything related to that, which would have led me down this to this world of evidence based fitness. Right? Yeah. My first question to you is, Have you shared this podcast with them?

Isis Alvarado 43:04

I haven't.

Philip Pape 43:07

We'd watch it, share it, share the podcast with everyone just yeah, just very passively say, hey, there's a podcast I really love. Not everybody listens to podcasts, but like, Hey, this is my favorite podcast, send it to them. I'm shameless plug on my part. But honestly, if it helped you, Hopefully we could help.

Isis Alvarado 43:23

That's what we all want, you know, like, to help each other to support each other, you know, to share what has worked for us. But yeah, I mean, they, they I was also doing keto low carb for so long. So then also because I realized that nutrition, it's like, an, you know, like many things in life is like everyone Asian, you know, people, it's like a religion. Yeah, there is one, one universal truth, even amongst professional people, you get bias with what you believe in. So it's not until you are ready. That's why I say you have to be ready to break free from your religion and open your mind to something completely different. You know, like, listen to it. So yeah, it's like

Philip Pape 44:10

being saved from a cult. It's a being being rescued from a cold. Not everybody's ready for it. Right back

Isis Alvarado 44:20

out of there. Oh, yeah. Wait for the like, I'm ready. Yeah,

Philip Pape 44:23

yeah, that's why I guess the best way the best we can do is like love and support people who are in our lives, even if they're maybe making the choices we don't think are best for them. And and gently encourage them and provide support and maybe there'll be when they're ready, you know, it'll be there for them. So that's a, it's a good approach. Plus the idea of, of it being a religion implies that, like you said, a universal truth. If if you are listening to this, and you have if you have the lease like that right now and you're listening to ISIS a story and you can relate to everything she said, you're like, Hmm, maybe I should question some of that. I would go back to your concept of sustainable To me, sustainability is like a principle rather than a dogma, right? Rather than, like, if you have sustainability, it means you can eat in a way for you for forever. And therefore, there's no one right way to eat, it's the way it is for you. So kind of kind of embrace that idea, rather than a specific, you know, these are the right foods.

Isis Alvarado 45:22

Like I really enjoy with weightlifting, but I can see why for some people, they would never enjoy it, you know, they will never get into it. It's just a different way of No, like, working out. So some people, is

Philip Pape 45:36

that true? I just hold on, hold on. I want to challenge that because I have a lot of conversations with this on other podcasts about that, where they'll say, Well, what do you say to people who just don't like weightlifting? And And I'll say, Well, are they doing it the way that I would do it? And if you start like, getting stronger because you're using a training plan and progressive over like, I've never met anybody who doesn't start to like the training, then that's my opinion. What do you guys

Isis Alvarado 45:58

Zack my opinion, but they wouldn't they wouldn't even want to try or they wouldn't wouldn't try it long enough to to like it because of everything. You cannot like something like there is no love at first sight with your workout.

Philip Pape 46:14

True. And it's hard. It's hard, right? Yeah, people. Yes,

Isis Alvarado 46:18

they are very resistant to it, especially women. But now more I see more and more women who are into weightlifting. Actually, much more than before. So yeah, I guess I guess I would believe that everybody would love it, if they give it a try if they are rational enough to understand it enough to decide whether they like it or not. And for sure, they would like it more than any other kind of any any other kind of exercising. But as I said, like some people, they're not even willing to make

Philip Pape 46:53

it true. So that's a lot of wisdom right there seriously, that you just dropped that. You may not like something the first time you try it, but you stick to it, and then you'll see if you like it. And with weightlifting with lifting weights, it seems to be almost universal, that if you do it the right way and start to build muscle, you're going to like it. And there's something like natural about using your body and using your muscles as a human being. Again, in my opinion, I'm very passionate about this. But I've seen people who did not like lifting, and they've done everything. And then all of a sudden, they maybe do some bodyweight movements that help them solve a problem in their life, like an older person who has trouble getting off the couch. And then they start squatting. And now they can get off the couch and their joints don't hurt. And now they're like, Oh, now I see the value in this. And so if you're listening and you like you think you're not gonna like it, you've got to give it a shot like ISIS is saying and tie it to a performance goal you have or a health goal you have or something very specific that you can then train toward, you know, don't just train to be have a great body and a lot of muscle like a year or two years from now. That may be too vague. Do it for the process. Do it for the short term wins and salsa. So yeah, good.

Isis Alvarado 48:02

I think I also think regarding weightlifting, there is a lot of you know, like, people like him when I was younger, and I started going to the gym. Way nifty and for me it was for like bodybuilders so and a lot of people still say like that, at least, where I'm from where I come from, you know, like, like lifting heavy, like we met would have like these tiny little numbers to pink, lifting heavy weight. And using all the machines that was like on he wanted to be like Mr. Olympia, like, gigantic, bulky in the gym. So I think a lot of people still associate by lifting with that, because not long ago, and she messaged me asking me what what do you think, what can you tell me about intermittent fasting? And I was like, what, for losing weight or for health? In general? She's like, No, I just want to lose some weight. And I won't say well, I did it for a long time. And actually, I didn't lose any weight. Because of it. You may or may not, but it does. It's not gonna make you lose weight, per se. But this one, I can tell you how to lose weight very easily. And I kind of talked to her about it, like you have to lift weights, etc. As you say, No, I'm doing for that. She's like 45 And I'm not too old for that. And first, like, actually, you should start lifting weights. If you want to avoid like osteoporosis or whatever, you know, that's the best anyone to do. To avoid all these pains you start on all these health issues you start having when you grow it because of your bones, bone density, etc. So as I say, as I said, if it weren't addressed as I say whenever you want I can guide you to it you just need to find probably a personal trainer who will like help you understand you know the correct one, that's all and they want

Philip Pape 49:52

one ear out the other. Well, she's not ready. She's not ready to leave the call.

Isis Alvarado 49:56

Okay, well, you know, that's what I can do. I just and they plan

Philip Pape 50:00

to see that's true, it's true. And that's a good point too, because some people will hear it over and over and over again. And then like two years later, they'll finally you know, after frustration, they'll finally reach out. And, by the way, for anyone listening, there is an age at which you're too old to lift, and it's the day after you die. That's the age that you're too old to it. And I mean, that literally, because recent studies have shown in your 80s, and 90s, you can build new tissue, I mean, that is so amazing. My own mother's approaching 70. And she's lifting for the first time in her life, she loves it, and she's getting stronger. That's what it's about. It's not just physique, even though physiques a nice side benefit. It's about being a human like, we're, we're mechanical, right, we have these joints and skeletal muscle, and if we don't use it, it all just starts to waste. And you start to get frail. And just like anybody else you see, walking around, your trajectory is poor health, metabolic disease and all of that. And ISIS here is like staving all of that off, she's getting younger every year of her life by lifting. So what else has it improved in your life? Besides, you know, the physical and mental, like, relationships, career personal goals, anything else? Well,

Isis Alvarado 51:08

I mean, already that emotional part of it. And, and the physical part of reading, like a lot, emotionally, it has improved a lot. As I said, when I, this period, in which I was like, a little bit too down, like working out made me feel like myself, again, that's already a huge improvement. I realized that exercise, and it's not just exercise, just because I exercise because I have if I had done some hate or some party or whatever, I would have felt like I wouldn't have felt the same, I would have felt like no,

Philip Pape 51:45

yeah, I'm just exhausted.

Isis Alvarado 51:48

Love me power. Yeah, it makes me feel empowered, then that I would say that the effect in the IP every single aspect in my life, sir. Beautiful,

Philip Pape 52:00

ya know that we hear that a lot of the confidence you get sometimes it sometimes it feeds into other areas where maybe you, you make a decision you would have made otherwise or take take, you know, be work on personal development or make you know, you speak up at work or something, sometimes people have a very specific thing they tie it to with confidence, you're already a very confident person, it seems I suspect a lot of that is inherent in you as well over the years. But the fact that you've found yourself and you've kind of got past the emotional side of it, and now it's been more positive, I can just see it on your face and how you talk. And I think that alone is you're gonna inspire a lot of people, just in general, by your interactions with them. It sounds like already you're doing that. As well as being on the show. I don't want to give the show too much credit, but like, seriously, you're gonna you're gonna inspire a lot of people because it's just just so positive.

Isis Alvarado 52:47

That's mine. Well, that's my job, I

Philip Pape 52:50

for sure.

Isis Alvarado 52:51

I hate to hear people struggling with, you know, their weight issues every time. And every time I talk with my college friends, they're always you know, like, telling me how hard it is why they cannot lose weight. And they are like doing everything and they tell me what they eat. I'm like, Oh my God, you just need to eat more.

Philip Pape 53:10

You know what, you're gonna share this episode with them? Right? All your friends, everyone, you know, like, Hey, look at me, I'm on this fate. I'm famous. I'm on the show. Now, you know, millions of downloads and share it with that. And then maybe they'll get the message and they'll they'll laugh because I'm saying we're saying all these things about the

Isis Alvarado 53:29

identities that religion? Yeah. Another afraid they're gonna be like that.

Philip Pape 53:35

Yeah, maybe maybe you never know, you might be surprised. Now probably be surprised. Like, we're gonna give them the benefit of the doubt when they're

Isis Alvarado 53:42

watching me know for sure. I think a lot of people you know, like, it just takes time. It takes time for some people to like, get the message and be ready. For sure.

Philip Pape 53:53

So tying this all together. For listeners who might be where you once were right, if they're feeling stuck in the unhealthy patterns, maybe it's your friends who are listening to this, but anybody who's listening? What either what practical advice do you want to give them? Like one or two simple tips to start their own journey? or thought of another way? What would you have told yourself, you know, like 15 years ago to kind of jumpstart this, knowing that there's the mental piece you have to get past the this religion of like bias, you have to get past what what would you say?

Isis Alvarado 54:24

Well, I would say that definitely like things are simpler than what you think they should be. And consistency. And sustainability is the main my magic ingredients in this part of my journey. Like being consistent, because I don't see it anymore as an end goal to lose this amount of skills. So it means that it's just my life journey. So of course you have to be consistent. It's okay to like, fall off the log on once in a while, it's okay even if it's twice in a week, whatever, is just keep on the journey. Just keep walking this path, and period. And sustainability helps it consistency. Because the more sustainable you do, like you have to create your own process. Like, for example, I was trying to balance when I was having like my, my once a week, meal out, I was trying to balance my calories of the day to be able to fit that 1000 Calorie burger. And then I realized that, that was putting too much stress in my mind. And you know, I was feeling hungry or whatever. And I say, Okay, I'm just gonna eat enough. And if this day, I eat more calories. Who cares? You know, it's more sustainable for me to do it this way, than to like, do it the other way, which is sacrificing my other two meals, to be able to see that delicious burger that I like to have once a week. So it's all you know, you have to make it sustainable for you. And that will help you be consistent. So

Philip Pape 56:06

true. So true. I mean, you've you got it, you've got it like you figured it out. I just like if you can plan your day, your week, your training, your food, your movement, all that in a way that you can do it or that if it's your life, of course, then you can be consistent. Yeah, some people have a backward they like trying to force in the consistency with some discipline or willpower, with things that they don't like, right? Well, you're saying, Well, if you like it, and it's a process, and it's giving you wins every day, you'll just do it. Just like you

Isis Alvarado 56:36

can, you can't rely on willpower. This is something I have learned the hard way. You can't rely on willpower because it is not an infinite resource. And food is always available. I mean, like if we're talking if you have issues with food, with power on a lawn, it's not gonna get you anywhere, because food is always there.

Philip Pape 56:57

And now the temptation is always there. So why Why try to make it? Yeah, yeah,

Isis Alvarado 57:01

it's not something like alcohol or cigarettes that you can just, like, make disappear from your life completely. So yeah, willpower is not gonna help. You just do create a system that works for you in a sustainable way. They send that that is enjoyable, that doesn't feel like a sacrifice. And now with the right information, I have realized that this system exists for me, it's not a sacrifice, I eat as much as I want. I eat everything that I want, you know, in moderation, of course, I plan it out. And it works very well for me, and it doesn't feel it doesn't have to feel difficult. That's my main main livelihood feels difficult, that's a red flag, you have to find a different way.

Philip Pape 57:48

I love it a system a system that sustainable, enjoyable, doesn't feel like a sacrifice. And that is 100% possible for everyone listening. So I want to know is this what is next in your life? Well, it besides this amazing conversation we had and of course, you're going to share this with all your friends who are going to get you know, converted out of that religion into you know, this sustainable way of life. What are your future goals for your fitness, your health, and this spreading awareness that you seem to be really good to do it here

Isis Alvarado 58:16

are my, my bigger goal right now is to completely heal my relationship with food, do not feel guilty for like not feeling any kind of feeling of guilt or, or self they fade or not being enough because of the way it I want to feel that freedom that you know, I can eat wherever I want. Not literally, but actually I like to eat healthy. I just want to break free from that mental chaos, which is now almost zero, where they learn in my subconscious mind still, like you know, whenever I eat extra calories, it's like tomorrow you will eat those calories that and then I already say that doesn't work for me. And you know, you know, like just heal completely my relationship with food. I am very confident that in the physical aspect of it on the right track and there's no way back. I'm looking forward to my first cycle full cycle of gaining and then Jamie I think to see how it looks. But yeah, mainly my main goal now is focusing on the emotional side of it because everything else it's already it feels it fits perfectly. I I already you know I feel well with what I eat, etc is just the mental side of it, but it's still it's still there. It takes time because it's your subconscious mind. You know, since I was a child, feeling guilty for what I ate, feeling that I had to eat less you know, like sometimes and thinking like maybe I could just go back into the gut you know, like yes Yeah, totally agree. Yeah. All in mind that telling you like, what, are you doing anything too much?

Philip Pape 1:00:06

Right? I mean, it sounds like you've come so far. And you're right, you know, we're always gonna have things that we struggle with or things from our past. And you put it nicely when you said subconscious. And I would even say unconscious, in some cases, pattern, like their patterns, right, their patterns that are just like trained in you. And if it started when you were 10, that's even harder to break because it goes so far back. But since you said that, it reminds me we, you know, in the Wits & Weights community, you know, I would love to have more content about emotion and, and self sabotage and like, you know, unconscious patterns and things like that as part of our, you know, information and maybe some future podcast episodes about that. So I'd love your input on that as we go forward. I do like to ask this question of all guests that we think you know, what's coming, but what one question, did you wish I had asked it? What is your it's

Isis Alvarado 1:00:55

okay, yeah, I had to take about four days. So my.

Philip Pape 1:01:01

So you thought about it in advance, and it was hard. Right. Okay. All right. Oh,

Isis Alvarado 1:01:05

no. So what's the most difficult part of this new

Philip Pape 1:01:09

journey? Okay, good question. But what's your answer?

Isis Alvarado 1:01:13

And the answer is the, the emotional part of it, they're transitioning from the old mentality that I have to do more sacrifice more illness, etc. To this new mentality of things have to be simple and eating? Because it's kind of like, it's like counterintuitive, you know, it's like, it's like, when you're, you're afraid of heights, and you you're gonna jump, even if you tell your mind and say it's safe to jump, let's do it. Your subconscious mind, like, keeps you there, like, frozen. And I can do it, I'm kind of facing that right now. Almost, like very frequent that you have to realize that in the like, you have this internal battle, like, this is too good to be true. This is doing say what you know, like, is it gonna work? How is this gonna work? Like, I have to think much more difficult if they haven't worked? Why isn't it work? So that is my only actual challenge right now with this new way of doing things? Because everything else is? What is there than what I always done? So yeah,

Philip Pape 1:02:26

so the emotional shift in all of your beliefs? Is is difficult. Yeah, yeah.

Isis Alvarado 1:02:33

You are changing from mindset in which things have to be super hard, and you're turning into something easier, it's still difficult for your brain, because your brain gets kind of like, hooked to that mentality, or the idea to that level of difficulty. So when you don't have it, your brains like, Hey, what's going on?

Philip Pape 1:02:54

Because it thinks something bad is gonna happen, right? And thinks, thinks that, that, so So why don't we just why don't we make everybody feel a little bit more easy about or relieved about this? What is the worst that can happen? If you make a quote unquote, wrong decision, like with your food, or your training? What's the worst is going to happen? Like that? Maybe it's hypothetical. But, you know, right. What, it's probably no worse than what's happened in the past when you haven't been doing anything. Actually,

Isis Alvarado 1:03:20

I had this. No, no, no, like, what's the worst that can happen? I'm gonna put away well, I've been putting on weight all of my life. Exactly. My name is not in you. So yeah, you're right, let them happen. It's nothing new, actually, something you've been going through all your life. Exactly.

Philip Pape 1:03:38

And the way we do things and the way ISIS does things, and I know, we didn't get into a lot of detail on that, but it's the awareness. And the control comes from the tracking and monitoring of what you're trying to measure, like ISIS, you know, tracks or food and tracks or lifts and stuff. And it's not quote unquote, calorie counting or like, this very, you know, has to be exactly this thing. It's more just, hey, what's going on with my choices with my body and with the outcome so that I can be that back and change what's happening. And if you have that awareness, you know, if things are going off in the path you don't want, and you can just correct it the way you do. Yeah, yes,

Isis Alvarado 1:04:09

exactly. And it's not about perfection. It's about on constant that consistent. Yep. Sustainability

Philip Pape 1:04:16

and consistently Awesome. All right, is ISIS. Do we want to let anybody know how to reach you here? Or do you want them to find you in the community?

Isis Alvarado 1:04:25

While I'm on the community, I don't really have like a public in social media persona. So it's just personal friends and all but I'm happy and I'm happy to interact with people and on the Facebook community. Beautiful.

Philip Pape 1:04:41

So for everyone listening, we're talking about the Wits & Weights Facebook group, totally free. It's a private group, but it's free. And as I mentioned before, very positive, very supportive. And you can join using the link in our show notes, or just searching Wits & Weights on Facebook, and you'll be able to find ISOCELL Lorado in there. I'll see if I can like link. I don't think I can link to a pro So far, but we'll link to the group so you can find her. Other than that this has been a pleasure, an amazing conversation. I'm really glad we had you on. I'm inspired just talking to you, you're so positive. And again, I'm grateful you came on ISIS.

Isis Alvarado 1:05:11

Thank you. And I really enjoyed this conversation too. And as I said, Thank you for everything you share, like this information has changed my life. And not only the scientific facts that you shared, but also your approach to it. That as I said, it has sunk in my mind and it has been like, it has been a key factor for the changes that I needed to do.

Philip Pape 1:05:36

That means a lot to me and says thank you, and thanks for coming on.

Isis Alvarado 1:05:39

Thank you. Really nice to meet you in person. Well,

Philip Pape 1:05:45

exactly. It's awesome. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights, please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong.

Philip Pape 2/2/24 Philip Pape 2/2/24

Ep 143: Unique Over 40 Workout Strategies for More Muscle, Energy, and Recovery with Brad Williams

Do you know the fitness principles that can be adapted to the over-40 age group? Discover practical tips to maintain a strong and healthy lifestyle beyond 40! Philip speaks with Brad Williams, host of the Over 40 Fitness Hacks podcast. Philip asked him to come on here to talk about the unique challenges and approaches for the over-40 demographic, when he was honored to be on his show recently. They discuss Brad’s motivations behind focusing on this age group, how fitness principles can be adapted to their age, and common age-related fitness myths. Brad shares his insights on effective training styles, managing stress and inflammation, and optimizing nutrition.

Do you know the fitness principles that can be adapted to the over-40 age group? Discover practical tips to maintain a strong and healthy lifestyle beyond 40!

In this episode, Philip (@witsandweights) speaks with Brad Williams, host of the Over 40 Fitness Hacks podcast. Philip asked him to come on here to talk about the unique challenges and approaches for the over-40 demographic, when he was honored to be on his show recently. They discuss Brad’s motivations behind focusing on this age group, how fitness principles can be adapted to their age, and common age-related fitness myths. Brad shares his insights on effective training styles, managing stress and inflammation, and optimizing nutrition. Tune in and learn practical strategies for maintaining a strong and healthy lifestyle beyond 40.

Over the last decade, Brad has owned and operated three gym locations in Orange County, and oversaw more than 40 independent personal trainers, each with their unique training styles. He built a loyal following and sought-after client/trainer community culture within his gym locations.

Post-pandemic, Brad had to focus more on online training and started his fitness podcast called Over 40 Fitness Hacks. The show revolves around Brad’s passion for helping the over-40 crowd fight the aging process while still having a social life.

Today, you’ll learn all about:

2:17 Why focus on over-40 fitness
5:30 Personal fitness and health changes now that you're over 40
10:36 Training principles and adjustments for over 40
15:05 Common misconceptions or objections to training over 40
20:25 General training and programming principles
26:54 How to manage inflammation and stress
33:42 Mental health and fitness
41:08 Counting micros (not just calories/macros)
46:16 Muscle gain and strength expectations for 60s/70s
49:28 The question Brad wished Philip had asked
52:17 Where to find Brad
52:48 Outro

Episode resources:

Podcast "Over 40 Fitness Hacks" and website www.Over40FitnessHacks.com
Join our free insiders list to receive an EXCLUSIVE bonus interview with Brad on how he uses intermittent fasting, 36-hour fasts, EAAs, and more for his personal nutrition approach (and why)!

Episode summary:

As we age, the importance of maintaining a healthy and active lifestyle becomes more apparent. In a recent episode of our podcast, we had the pleasure of speaking with Brad Williams from the Over 40 Fitness Hacks podcast. Brad, an expert in midlife fitness, shares invaluable insights into the best practices for staying fit after 40.

For many, turning 40 marks a pivotal point in their fitness journey. This episode breaks down the myths surrounding midlife fitness and provides listeners with practical advice to help them navigate the changing landscape of their bodies. We discuss high-intensity training, the benefits of time under tension workouts, and the underestimated importance of everyday movement.

One key takeaway is the role of mitochondrial health in combating the aging process. High-intensity workouts, though daunting for some, are crucial in maintaining mitochondrial function. However, the emphasis shifts from the frequency of workouts to the quality of exercise as we age. Brad highlights how a change in mindset is required to adapt our fitness routines to our body's evolving needs.

We also delve into the significance of nutrition in maintaining vitality beyond 40. The conversation includes the crucial role of micro-minerals and the personalization of wellness routines. Stress management, mental health, and managing inflammation are also discussed, with strategies shared from our own experiences in thriving despite these challenges.

The podcast also covers the importance of raising your basal metabolic rate (BMR) by building lean muscle and the necessity of a high-quality diet. Personal anecdotes reveal how food allergies and nutrition can impact overall health. The discussion also touches on the importance of journaling to track how foods affect your body, the connection between stress, cortisol levels, nutrient absorption, and the role of consistent routines in achieving health goals.

The complexities of stress management and its impact on overall well-being are also explored. We examine the strong connection between physical and mental health, highlighting how fitness routines can alleviate anxiety and depression for many. Personal experiences emphasize the importance of perseverance in the journey toward mental health.

Lastly, we discuss the importance of tracking micro-minerals for nutrition, particularly potassium, calcium, magnesium, and vitamin D. Surprising benefits, such as reduced water retention and improved muscle function, are noted when adjusting these nutrient levels. The use of resources like EatThisMuch.com for tracking micros in food is recommended, along with the importance of regular blood work to identify deficiencies.

In conclusion, the episode not only sheds light on the intricacies of midlife fitness but also empowers listeners to take control of their health as they venture into the prime of their life. With Brad's expertise and actionable fitness hacks, our audience is equipped to fine-tune not just their body but their entire approach to well-being.

For those interested in connecting with Brad, he shares how listeners can reach out through his podcast and website. The episode wraps up with a reminder to follow the podcast for more episodes aimed at enhancing both mental and physical strength.

Join us on this invigorating journey as we redefine what it means to be fit after 40. The wealth of knowledge shared in this episode is sure to inspire and motivate anyone looking to maintain their health and fitness in midlife and beyond.

Have you followed the podcast?

Get notified of new episodes. Use your favorite podcast platform or one of the buttons below. Then hit “Subscribe” or “Follow” and you’re good to go!

Transcript

Brad Williams 00:00

Doing a little bit of high intensity training, you know, there's people out there that just love it to death and you know, good for you, I hate it. But having a little bit of that per week actually helps boosts the mitochondrial levels in your body, which is just part of the aging processes. As we slow down, we age we move less, our mitochondria count starts dropping in our body, and that's what keeps us youthful. And it's also the powerhouse in ourselves that utilizes fat and burns fat.

Philip Pape 00:29

Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host, Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger, optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition. We'll uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry, so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in Wits & Weights community Welcome to another episode of the Wits & Weights Podcast. Today I'm joined by Brad Williams, host of the over 40 Fitness hacks podcast. I had the honor of being on his show recently. And I asked him to come on here to talk about the unique challenges and approaches for the over 40 demographic. We'll discuss Brad's motivations behind focusing on this age group, how fitness principles can be adapted to our age. And we're going to of course, debunk common age related fitness myths. Brad will share his insights on effective training styles, managing stress and inflammation and optimizing nutrition. And of course, you're going to learn practical strategies for maintaining a strong, healthy lifestyle beyond Florida. Over the last decade, Brett owned and operated three gym locations in Orange County, and oversaw more than 40 independent personal trainers, each with their unique training styles. He built a loyal following and sought after client trainer community culture within each of his gym locations. Post pandemic, Brad had to focus more on online training, and started his fitness podcast called over 40 Fitness hacks. He wanted the show to revolve around his passion for helping the over 40 Crowd fight the aging process while still having a social life. Brad psyched to see you again. Have you on the show?

Brad Williams 02:08

Yeah, thanks so much for having me on your show is great. Yeah, so

Philip Pape 02:12

it's so much fun, man. The over 40 thing is so hot right now, one of the most common questions I get all the time, is you know what to do for this thing over 40 Whatever it is training, nutrition, you name it, as if it's some magic arbitrary number. And you know, I kind of pick your brain on that, why the over 40 crowd, let's just start there. Yeah.

Brad Williams 02:30

So you know, just as a frame of reference in your intro, you know, I've been a personal trainer for 15 years owned and operated gyms in Orange County. And I think just kind of those were the over 40 crowd was kind of who could afford you know, private personal trainers or semi private personal trainers, which is what I did, you know, I trained a few people still kind of catered the workout, each one of them, but you know, allowed them to share the cost. And just got really good at it. And, and, you know, would always notice the over 40 crowd, you're talking about their aches and pains and how, how much harder it was then in their 20s and 30s. And, you know, I always give them some props for that I get it. But you know, we could still work hard, we can still get there and kind of grind grind, you know, let's, let's get that motivation as being the personal trainer. And then you know, fast forward 15 years, you know, doing everything I've been doing. And finally turning 40 myself. And now I'm seeing the the problems, you know, it's harder to keep the weight off, I'm tired, you know, you got life, work life, family balance, and I'm like, Oh my God, all these all these clients were right, it is harder. But you know, I've got that personal trainer mindset where I refuse to quit, I will literally find the best ways of quickest ways, you know, and safest ways to still get that healthy body that athletically and aesthetically pleasing body. But also, you know, I've also kind of changed my mindset to more longevity as well, over the last few years. So that's, that's kind of where I am now. And I just love helping people, you know, being in our 20s and 30s. That was great. But you know, we had aids to help us out on that. And now we have to worry about a lot more stuff than just how many days we can get to the gym. It doesn't work like that anymore.

Philip Pape 04:17

That's a solid answer. So first of all, thank you for your honesty on saying like it was the people who could afford it like initially is I totally understand. When I was getting into marketing, I'm like, Well, you know, I'm probably not marketing to 21 year olds need high ticket coaching or whatever. So that's funny but then you said that you know, you yourself hadn't quite experienced that yet being in your 20s or 30s at the time and and then you kind of aged into that and now you can really empathize empathize with your clients, which is also a good point because those listening you know, we have a lot in that demographic don't hire 20 year old coach come on, hire the guys that have been through it or grizzled got the little bit of the gray hairs you know, we understand? Exactly, we understand right and then and then the idea of of refusing to quit and like continuing to push appeals to me and I can relate to wanting to get younger, the older you are like now that you're in your 40s. It's like, Forget Father Time, like, we're gonna figure this out, or we're gonna keep going and making progress. But then the idea of people not having age anymore to help them is another good quote you said, because folks are listening to like, Yeah, I know what you mean. Like, in my 20s, I could do anything. And now I've got things happening, like stuff is just happening, whether it's from built up life stress, right, from obligations and their family and stuff like that, or just what happens with your body? So you said you're 42, I'm 43, we're pretty much the same age and the over 40 crowd, is there something that you experienced in the last five years that you attribute to age that you just absolutely couldn't relate to in your 30s? Because you alluded to some of that? Yeah.

Brad Williams 05:51

So you know, I just picked 40 is the number but you know, I started noticing playing real competitive flag football with a lot of my buddies, and noticing some injuries at 30 to 35. Those were the first times I saw ankle rolls, and, you know, almost some meniscus tears in the knees, just from playing a simple sport like that. And I'm like, God, you know, so we train and try to be more functionally fit and do this things. And, you know, it's just you're just, you're fighting a losing battle, you know, if it My thing is, I mean, if you really love and it's gotta be part of your life, then you make it happen. But for me, I finally decided that, no, I'm not getting paid millions of dollars to be an NFL athlete, why am I doing this? You know, there's other things I want to do with my life. So I pretty much just took sports out, you know, minus some pickleball or, you know, whatever. But uh, that's that's kind of the thing. And then right around, I think 37 I had a pretty prominent lower back injury. And you always have to tell people it has nothing to do with the gym or any my workouts. I always got to put that out there. But it was you know, I was the I was the gym owner, I was running three gyms I was the accountant, the bathroom cleaner, the marketing guy, the front desk guy, you know everything right and so I can get these gyms going. And part of it was moving equipment around to keep it fresh and everything. So one day, I was just moving out of one of my gyms, a couple pieces of equipment and, you know, walked in, it was more of a warehouse style gym. And we use these little eye bolts that were anchored into the ground, and we hook our battle ropes to it. So they're basically OSHA trip hazards, right? So we usually put orange cones on him when we lift the shed door. While I was sitting there to grab a couple things. I'm like ADD, though, you know, I don't need to do that. Literally, as soon as I went in there, talk to someone grabbed a frame weight rack, about 45 pounds turn and totally forgot, went out tripped on this thing lunged out so violently, taught myself and stupidly held onto the rack. And immediately I heard the pop. And basically, long story short, I blew out my L five s one. And oh, it's just a nightmare experience. So with with that, and over the, you know, a five year period of time of two surgeries, tons of chiropractor visits, physical therapy, visits, everything, you know, a finally, you know, that's kind of a shock to, you know, humbling you and seeing what's what's worth it to you on, you know, what you can do now what's in it for your future and kind of longevity, you know, stuck with me like how am I supposed to play with my kid later in life, you know, what I want to be able to walk and, you know, deadlifting 450 pounds is just not my future anymore, even though I was functionally sound and safe doing it with all the, you know, personal training principles that I had. But now it's, you know, I had to adopt more of a philosophy of time under tension, you know, a lot of people have different names for it, do negatives or slow mo training, and I just call it time under tension, taking everything I do, slowing it down, you know, instead of one to two seconds to finish each rep of whatever exercise you're doing, I'd take four to five, sometimes longer. And really get that mind body connection, control, feel the contraction, but it allows you to use about half the weight. So now I've just you know, given myself that much more time expended on my body, as far as joints and you know, my spine as well. So, and I've been doing great with that. And we'll talk about other hacks that I've learned that you know, everything is about quality now not quantity. And it's not just movement, and how many times at the gym, you can get, you know, there's now sleep, inflammation, different kinds of stress, all these things that I've incorporated, that we probably should have done in our 20s That's true. But we just didn't care didn't listen to our bodies and we just had so much drive and you know that young energy that we just push past all those things?

Philip Pape 09:43

Yeah, I've yet to meet someone in that age group who will listen, I guess, who will just say, oh, you know what you're saying is very wise. And I understand it's gonna happen to me, so let me know. It's just never happy like we all learn from the school of hard knocks and you're thinking about back surgery. So I have back surgery to I get it l five s one, same thing. So many people listening, have you know, they get the tendinopathy, or the tendinitis or tendon nesis, right, depending what you call it, they get the they have the surgeries. And you get to this fork in the road, you get to these decision points, the older you get, the more you get beat up of what do I do now. And I like your principle of finding something that allows you to continue to train and not using it as an excuse, but also not being stupid, and just saying, Well, I can do the exact same thing that I did before. So we'll get into training a little bit because I liked the idea of modifying tempo, modifying your lifts, it's all good. Like, I'm not dogmatic about that stuff at all, when it's the best thing for you. So, stepping back, what are the big rocks, like the principles for over 40. And again, I know 40 is an arbitrary number, but it's a good transition point. You know, men and women that's in your testosterone hormones start to decline, you know, during menopause, for women, it's when we all get into mid career. So all the stresses there are kids are like 10 years old, roughly. So what are the principles that do change the approach you have to take, like recovery, joint health, you mentioned stuff like that. Yeah,

Brad Williams 11:11

so that's, that was kind of hard for me to grasp, even after the back surgery was, you know, to get to get what I wanted, I would have to put minimum five times in the gym, lifting heavy, you know, to get what I want. And what I noticed was after adopting, you know, this other style of slowing everything down, you don't need to go five times, you know, sometimes I only do two to two days a week. Usually I try to get three, but just how important movement is it doesn't need to be, you know, heavy lifting, obviously, you can do, you can do quite a bit, which is two to three days, and then your other time spent, it'd be walking, right and why I like rucking with a little light weight vest. And movement is really what matters. And I like to preface during COVID When a lot of us trainers had to go home. And we had the luxury of taking some of our gym equipment home and keep it going where our clients, you know how to use whatever they get. They had, and we would still get great workouts for an hour, hour and a half. And then for the rest of the day, we would sit there and do nothing because we weren't even really supposed to go outside, right? Every single one of us gained like 15 pounds. So we did the same workout got all our protein every day. Yeah, that was the one problem was movement, you don't realize like how much we were moving being trainers. And, you know, for me jumping from gym to gym to gym, and just hustling. No, we're not doing that. And that was the first time I was like, oh my god movement, all his matters just as much as you know, lifting to tear down the muscle and rebuild to get that lean muscle mass. And then so going down that rabbit hole, you know, that's why listening to other experts and just really getting into this over 40 Fitness theories of you got to start looking at all this stuff and slow down, give your body time to repair, you got to worry about sleeping better. Supplements stuff only if you can't get it or won't from your diet, there's people that just won't do it. So okay, we've got to supplement it. And then another big one was I really learned the benefit of doing a little bit of high intensity training, you know, there's people out there that just love it to death and you know, good for you, I hate it. But having a little bit of that per week actually helps boost the mitochondrial levels in your body, which is just part of the aging processes. As we slow down, we age we move less, our mitochondria count starts dropping in our body. And that's what keeps us youthful. And it's also the powerhouse in ourselves that utilizes fat and burns fat. So right there is a flag that saying that you're not moving as much you're not doing a lot of this high intensity stuff. You're aging. That's why we're putting on all this fat. I mean, I'm doing the same amount of workouts, I even cut my calories down even more. I'm eating more protein than I ever did. And why might Why am I getting heavier it's because you're not you're not having that same effect of having all that mitochondria. So that was a an addition I had to start adding it and sure enough, it was really easy to start boosting that and without any effort you know one day a week started seeing the results start coming in faster so that's what just kind of threw me down that rabbit hole and now I've got all these different buckets you know one for movement was more contrast one yeah, all that stuff and you don't have to master at all but if you dabble in a little bit of each one of them now being over 40 Oh my god, you can do so much damage. Alright, so

Philip Pape 14:30

there's a lot I want to unpack because I love even the last time you said dabble in each one of them is is a great way to put it because it people try to do maybe they try to do too much. Or maybe they think they have to do everything in every category. But like you said, dabbling, maybe what you're getting at is consistency or you know, having that spread of doing all the basic routines and habits in your life. The healthy routines to some extent most people are not doing any like or most people are doing very little. So you're gonna be way beyond the next person just by doing some of that. A couple of print Suppose I want to tie him because before we started recording, we talked about how there's, there's things we may, quote unquote, disagree on or have controversy on whatever. And we'll probably talk about that at the end and put that in a bonus content for people to listen to. But the idea of doing too much, and moderating your volume and frequency, when I hear you talk about the importance of movement, I think of energy flux, right, I think of your expenditure. And like, like you said, at the cellular level, you're engaging this. But you also mentioned the time and attention principle. And I think there's probably different ways to get to that result, because I had a similar experience in the pandemic, where I had been doing CrossFit for years, which was added like crazy level, I stepped back and just started lifting three days a week. In a sense, I was reducing volume by doing that. And all of a sudden, I could recover and seek more and build, although I was lifting very heavy, but not that heavy, because it was relative to my strength. Yeah. Anyway, the principle though, is the same when people are listening. It's like, don't do too much, you know, realize that recovery demands are higher and your recovery capacities lower with age, move, walk through on a rucksack. Get your sleep, like these are all super important. Right? So thank you for Yeah, I think I think it was good. Those are the big ones. You can chime in when you want because sometimes I just ramble. But the opposite of that is the misconceptions or excuses people make that are not true. Or they cuz I'm sure you see that as well. Like we just talked about what you do need to be cognizant of what do people say? Well, I'm now I'm 40. So you know, what do they say? Yeah, well, one, one, they

Brad Williams 16:31

say, I just don't have time for this? Well, we have we have a solution for that. You don't have to work out as long and hard as you think. And then, you know, others say, well, is you're fighting a losing battle? Well, I mean, you could say that with any aspect of life, right? We're all gonna die someday. But my thing is, when like hate said was especially like women, you know, that are kind of referencing their 20 year old bodies and college life and their friends with their friends, kids, like how I can't get back to that way. And I was like, first of all, you have denser bones now just happens with age and then eventually goes back the other way. Our body just needs more water, it has survival mechanisms to hold on to more fat, you're going to be heavy, no matter what. So the weight, the skills gotta go. Everything is about inches, how you feel, you know, having that muscle to feel functionally well, that you can walk upstairs and do anything you want. And then I mean, there is a diminishing return as we age of being able to simulate protein, how well our digestive tract works. But you don't give up, you still got to optimize it and just work smarter, not harder. And you can you can get real close, like I feel like I have my 29 to 31 year old body. And I think I can hold that for another 2030 years, and I'm barely doing any effort, because I've got my routines down pack. You know, I enjoy life. I know that. And that's the biggest thing is you got to find stuff that works for you. And we'll talk about later. But you know, what I think of for diets and all that, but I've never put anything on anyone. And I just like being a detective what we got to find things that make you feel good for, you know, diet wise, you know, things that you like for exercise, and just keep you moving. And my best thing that I tell clients is, you know, after they've been with me for a while and they're still crying about you know, I don't have my 20 year old body in VR, I talked about that. I was like, Hey, let's let's just look at you. You've been with me for a while and you feel great. And you know everything let's let's put you against your peers, all your friends the same age, how does that look? They're like, Oh my god, I'm

Philip Pape 18:34

so much better, like top 1%

Brad Williams 18:38

Just, you know, in some of my older clients, how much more quicker they are mentally in talking and some of their counterparts are just barely moving, talking so slowly, like that's huge. Now not everything has to be about the six pack and, and dude, I have I spent my whole 20s and 30s trying to keep and hold that six pack. And when it comes down to it, you see these bodybuilders who, you know, look effortlessly holding them, but what they're taking and what they're using for dehydration and all these compounds and chemicals. It's not representative and they only do it for that one Photoshop. What do you think they look like the rest of the year? I see them they're in my gym. they puff up just like me.

Philip Pape 19:21

And where are you? And where are you seeing this the algorithm? Right? You're seeing the algorithm. So oh, man, the the idea of looking at your peers is really powerful, because a few things come to mind. Brad, one is that it doesn't take much to get you there like and you've seen this you can take someone who's been sedentary and within harsh weeks, even there are things that can start to, relative to their peers seem like outliers, like I've seen people who you know, they're starting to get that hunched over posture, even in their late 30s and 40s. You know, they're walking on the desk all day, and then they start lifting weights and two weeks later, you see him standing up like this, right? You know, older books in their 60s 70s who have trouble getting off the couch. Just a little bit of squatting A week later, they're getting off the couch like that stuff is is life changing? And and you talked about like the bigger and denser bones. I think it's all funny, right? Because you're right, women were just like, see how much more powerful muscular they are compared to their peers from a little bit of this? It's, that's I love that approach. It's good. Yeah, yeah. No. And you mentioned like protein MPs declines hormones. Yeah. All that is a fact. So what are you going to do about it? You just do control what you can. Okay, so I actually have a few questions from our members that are Wits, & Weights community for you. I'll sprinkle these in. The first one is really about training and programming. So I think it's a good segue into that. If we're talking over 40, and your goal is body recomp, you know, body composition, which I'm sure most of your clients are looking for that hypertrophy, physique, that kind of stuff. What's your general principle for training and programming? You know, not knowing the individual who we're talking about here? Just general? What are your principles? Yeah,

Brad Williams 20:59

it's still very similar to how I preach to my 20s and 30s. You know, everything is about raising your BMR, your basal metabolic rate, building more lean muscle tissue, when you're burning calories during the workout, to your burning calories, while you know, the aftermath of recovery and the protein synthesis that's happening, and the thermogenics that's burning more calories, and then having a higher BMR. Because now you have you know, three, five pounds more muscle, you're burning more calories at rest, even when you're sleeping than you were before. So that's always been my theory, my whole 15 year career. But now it's just, you know, what changes after 40? Well, we're still going for that. But you know, like I mentioned before, everything's got to be quality, not quantity. So first thing is we really got to start cleaning up the diet. And if, like, one one thing is really hard is, you know, some people can do it. But I mean, I can't all my, almost all my clients can't do it, just get enough protein in the day. Okay, so we tried first real food, but now we got to use protein shakes. Well, you know, I've had bouts of problems with cheaper whey protein concentrate, because it was always the cheapest stuff. And later in life, actually found out I had a severe allergic reaction that was building up to that, that sent me to the hospital twice anaphylactic shock. And now I know I have a milk protein allergy that's been building up. And now that I look back in time, I had noticed almost every single time I had that shake, I was getting a little itch or something wrong with my lip. And those are all the telltale signs that your body's changing and liking something. I'm allergic allergic to a whole slew of other things, by the way, but we don't really have the time to talk about that stuff. So one is this, like, we got to start getting quality stuff, stuff that works with your gut. You know, there's all this science and stuff coming in about your gut biome and who knows which way to go right, but easiest thing to do is start journaling. How you feel like after you eat after you drink anything, I mean, you should never have that bloating feeling seen your liver blowed out. You know, I found out I was allergic to red wine gluten, obviously the milk broccoli, like where did that come from? I almost had a, you know about it that last year, just a good amount of broccoli and just had not like a severe allergic reaction, but enough to cause enough inflammation enough discomfort IBS slightly. And I've noticed that anytime your body's inflamed anytime your body's stress, either no pain or mental heal your cortisol levels, raise your guts not working properly. And so everything you put in your body is just a waste, it's not going to process it correctly, you're not going to get those nutrients until your body is calmed down. And so the best results I've ever gotten is journaling and making sure that everything that I put into my body, my stress, everything is just top notch, my sleep top notch, and then you start seeing the needle just start going like crazy. You're getting all the results you want. So it's not just alcohol anymore. You know, that was a big thing in our 20s and 30s. Like, well, you know what you're getting yourself into if you're drinking on the weekend that pretty much everything's turning to the fat. Well, all these other systems are doing the same thing too. So you have to watch everything now.

Philip Pape 24:16

Yeah, first of all, I feel bad for you. Well, those allergens because like, it's hard for me to relate to some people because my body for whatever reasons, like a tank with anything, I could just put any garbage into it and it's fine. It's just amazing. Other than you're right, some protein patterns, you gotta watch out that certain, certain negative side effects depends. But I think that's important, right? Because as we get older, these tolerances start to show up, or you may develop an allergen. What I found to Brad is people have been living in this state of fog for years not realizing it until they eliminate it from their diet, right. Oh, there's the clarity I was missing. Even alcohol does that to some people. But um, you talked about stress and cortisol and gut kind of malfunctioning and therefore kind of the nutrient partitioning isn't up memo, which is, it's one of these hidden things that people need to be aware of. The journaling is a great tool. So when you talk about journaling, I assume there's many ways people can do this. Is there a particular way you really like and find that people stick with and find useful when it comes to journaling?

Brad Williams 25:17

I don't really have like an app to use, I'm real big, and just keeping paper, I love paper, getting my To Do lists, and then little journals like that. But other clients, they use, like Microsoft notes, or, you know, or just text it to themselves, but just just something that habit and not not only for watching those items. Another one is, you know, we talked about building your routines when you finally feel like, what's the best diet, you know, what are you supposed to eat on there, you know, what type of movement you're doing each day, because you should do something and you need reminders. So you know, I have this down, and probably in mid day or late afternoon, I always see what my to do list is, next page is, you know, all these routines and like, Oh, crap, I forgot to take some fermented food products, but you know, because that helps with your gut biome, allegedly, and it does feel good to me. But just things like that, or your protein powder, you fried take your second shake, if that's something that was important to you. You know, it's hard once you start building these to remember day in day out, and you let three months, six months go by and then you're like, why is nothing working? And then you go back through this stuff. You're like, I forgot, like six of the things I was doing. Yeah. So it's just that's just not how our brain works. You know, some people probably have photographic memories, but no,

Philip Pape 26:29

no, yeah, I hear you're saying, right, because like I used to take to Brazil nuts every day for selenium, that I remember that dropped off at some point. And I used to have a reminder, my phone and I don't anymore, and I'm like, oh, okay, maybe

Brad Williams 26:42

like that. I do nutritional yeast and eggs for the same thing. But I'll forget. I'll forget the nutritional yeast for like, a year.

Philip Pape 26:49

Yeah, yeah. So you gotta write this stuff down. I mean, whether it's a notebook and app reminder, I probably 20 reminders a day for all little things like take my vitamins, you know, or, yep, do this. Do that. So yeah, it's human being human. Okay, so inflammation and stress. You mentioned, physical and emotional, of course, I'm sure when we talk about stress, which increases with age, and part of it is the decades we spent not taking care of our body, like I said, or life becomes stressful with obligations of family, financial obligations, and so on. So, you know, and I'm even putting you to sleep here. Oh, you know, as well as we have this podcast, because we're probably got some stress. Just kidding, man. For those that watching the video, he just just yawns I was joking. Oh, no, I

Brad Williams 27:29

was coughing. I'm muted, so I can pop. That's good. Oh, I

Philip Pape 27:32

thought it was a yawn. That's so funny. And I only say that brand, because I own all the time. And I feel like I'm offending people every time.

Brad Williams 27:38

My teeth, which is why I have some other issues with teeth, although it

Philip Pape 27:42

sounds good. So the question is, how do we take care of the inflammation in the stress? Like, where did those come from? And are there some practical things that people can kind of easily do and then maybe more advanced strategies if you have those? Yeah, so

Brad Williams 27:56

for inflammation as far as like, you know, we already went through that you know, what you're putting in your body, okay, you've written all that down, you're feeling great, your body's never really bloating up, you're working on your, your mental stress, you know, what's going on with work your family, I mean, that could take some time, too. But I'm telling you, until you take care of that, my job is a personal trainer, and your job, you know, trying to go through this journey. It's just, it's not going to happen, or it's going to have marginal results. And one of my favorite stories on that is one of my clients, a female at the time, she was I think, 32 she had been coming for about a year and she wanted to go the distance like almost, you know, bikini prep, if she wanted to, I'd have to refer to someone else that did that kind of stuff. We got great results. Just couldn't get that last, you know, five to 10 pounds off, maybe eight pounds Max, it didn't matter how much better on nutrition, you know, we gave her more movement homework to dues and, you know, progressive overload, like crazy, like we mapped it all out. And throughout that whole time, you know, I would I was noticing that, you know, she'd always talked about work and how she hated her coworkers, her boss, and she had jumped from job to job, she's just, you know, I'm not that person to I couldn't work for corporate anymore and deal with that stuff. But just just the stress, I didn't know how bad it was. And I I was friends with their husband as well. And he told me how bad it was God is, you know, you need to take care of this. And eventually, she got her wish her husband got a like a higher paying job and was able to give her her dream of going out, consulting, you know, LLC and doing it on your own. And I don't think it was maybe eight days, nine days, she lost like eight pounds. Like all the pounds that we were trying to get off and all sudden they came off and we had kind of given up on some of this extra work due. So she reverted back to the lesser time, you know, maybe three, four days a week, and she lost all that weight out of nowhere. That was my first time I've seen the effects of cortisol and how how that can just sit there and work against you. And you know putting seven days a week on it. Two workouts a day isn't gonna isn't gonna do anything until you solve that problem.

Philip Pape 30:09

Hey, this is Philip. And I hope you're enjoying this guest interview on Wits & Weights. If you're finding it valuable, you can get a bonus conversation we recorded. If you're on our email list, just go to wits & weights.com/bonus or click the link in the show notes. Insiders on our email list will get a link to the bonus conversation where my guest will give you the exact steps to take related to one of the topics in today's episode. Again, these conversations are only available if you're on our free email list. To get the bonus exclusive content with today's guest, just go to wits & weights.com/bonus, or click the link in the show notes. Now back to the show.

Brad Williams 30:51

So that was more on that side. And then for stress as far as pain, you know, I went through that chronic pain for sciatica, I don't know how bad yours was Phil, but mine, you know, I got to level 10 And then had to start counting by 10s, I got to like level 70 pain like I would have rather put my hand on a frying pan for 10 seconds, if you would have taken my back pain away. And recovering from all that still having issues and I met someone that helped me with a breathing process called diaphragmatic. Breathing. We're basically just you know, the people call it like belly breathing too. But learning how your nervous system if you can calm that down. It's not just your cortisol levels, but it's just your nervous system as well. Calming that down. And with within three days of doing this style breathing, like 70% of my paying gone. So it's just the power of using these systems properly optimizing them, you got to know about them. First of all, like I've gone down. I've been doing this for a while interviewing tons of guests. I'm sure you have as well. And you just keep learning and finding out new tricks and trade. You know, I thought I never thought I knew everything about personal training, I thought was really good until you meet people more. So

Philip Pape 32:03

it's true. Yeah, when they're specializing. I mean, stress is one of those. It's funny because I'm putting together a podcast episode just on stress for the new year. Because of that, I think this episode might come out after that. But anyway, it's like a hidden like you said, it's this hidden insidious thing that's working against you. And it's probably the one pillar of all the nutrition and training pillars. It's like most nebulous Yeah, exactly. Right. Like eat sleep, you get sleep, it's like hours and do your sleep hygiene, right? training, nutrition, all that's pretty straightforward. With stress, it's like, okay, what do I do, you know, like, you can't necessarily eliminate sources of stress in your life, although that is one way to do it. But it's also how you cope with it. So like these breathing exercises, and things like that are great. I wish there was a kind of a prioritized or kind of simple approach for most people on what to do first. But I don't think it works that way. Because in reality, everyone's going to glom onto something different, right? Like, if you told me to, if you told me to meditate, I'm gonna say go pound sand. It's not my thing. You know, but if you said go for a walk, and then, okay, I got it, I can do that, you know, like, so we got to meet people where they're at. Exactly.

Brad Williams 33:09

You know, for me, I found after I learned this breathing, you know how boring it is to sit there, you know, and I want to meditate. You know, I'd knocked out two birds with one stone, you know, we'll talk about, you know, I've referenced counting your micro minerals, not just your macro minerals, and we can talk about that. But vitamin D was a huge deficit for me and taking care of that was a huge one. So I Married those two together. So I do my belly breathing, while I'm sitting out there getting some sun so I get some vitamin D. So bam, I enjoy it. I love it. I'm not really meditating. I'm almost like kind of fallen asleep. But you know, I'm getting benefit from both. So it's just finding the systems and routines that are working for you. Yeah,

Philip Pape 33:45

the habit stacking that's, that's always really good. Okay, so mental health is another thing I wanted to ask about, sort of tied to that because, you know, at least the more I learned and talk to experts, I'm sure you have as well we see how linked physical health is with mental health to the extent that I've seen people who suffer from anxiety and depression for their whole life. And they just introduce some sort of fitness routine and it starts to improve their mental physical health. What was your experience with that, especially as we get older, you know, and again, the stress probably is tied into that a lot of women I noticed have issues with like anxiety and depression. So what are your thoughts on that?

Brad Williams 34:22

I've seen different things from all walks of life and people on on working on that and finding it in different things. Some people find it in supplements, some people find it through nutrition, I'm one of those people and we talked about that what some were just getting more sunlight a ton of them were you know, finally moving and getting the endorphins and all those hormones from working out. And you know, some people didn't like circuit training and weight training, and that's what I offered. So okay, well, you know, go ride a bike or go do this or go do it outside and something but for most people, it's just know that you have an issue. Know that, you know, maybe there's something out There are some people that there's just no hope you'd ever want to say that, you know, work with your health and wellness professionals on that, that maybe you need more crazy drugs or whatever. But just don't give up. That's the biggest thing. So, you know, being a personal trainer, I'm sure you're the same way we just we get to know clients, we kind of almost become a therapist, at some point, we don't want to give too much direct advice. But what I always give is, I mean, we know this is an issue, this is probably some of the reasons we're not getting the results we want. You got to you got to start searching for answers for this. And you know, I've got some suggestions. I'm not a therapist, I'm not a doctor. But you know, you've heard these things, start looking for it. And just write write in your journal, okay, I tried this, I tried that, you know, I tried a different type of workout, I wouldn't got some sun and don't give up. And, you know, one of the things that I had issues with, from pretty much sixth grade all the way to, you know, my first year in college was very mild, the semi severe depression. I don't know about anxiety, but I suffered through depression. And you know, people who have depression will never let anyone in the whole world know that they have. And, you know, I was one of those people, until finally, as I just can't do this anymore, you start you start looking and not really looking for help, some people need that, but I just never wanted to devote that to anybody. I just went down rabbit holes and went on YouTube, and, you know, listen to experts on podcasts and started trying out different stuff. And lo behold, you know, I find peace with changing my nutrition up and go and more on a Keto low carb diet. And, you know, I never preached that to anybody because there's no diet, that's for everybody. It's what works for you. And then I, you know, we try that with different clients and find what works. But for me, you know, ever since I did that, within less than a week, all my depression, you know, and other issues gone. And it's been like that for I think, six years now. Not once Is it ever reverted back. I mean, that's just tells you that, that doesn't mean my story is gonna be the exact same for someone else. But just, you know, just don't give up, you got to try different stuff never stop. That's

Philip Pape 37:07

the principle I think you that people want to grasp onto is looking for answers and taking control of your health. In my community, we talk a lot recently about gaslighting, especially for women in health care. And, you know, I want to have some peeps of women on my show to talk about that. But it really applies to everyone in that no one else is gonna give you that answer. And even if you have a coach like us, even if you have a doctor, they may not be the person who has the answer. At the end of the day, you have take control and I like to tie it back to the journal and really understanding the correlations in the data between this stuff. Because I've seen very simple things like taking ashwagandha right like I noticed a lot of all of a sudden somebody was in just a woman who was in a terrible mood for two years and felt like like it was a hormonal nine it could be hormonal but started taking a little bit Asha gone and it all went away it's like just from that Yeah, wow, something was deficient and it's somehow helped regulate right and you know, it's hard to figure out what it is so don't assume other people are

Brad Williams 38:03

gonna know or be and you know take take everything with a grain of salt and you know find that people that are kind of vibing with you that have helped you but you know, I have seen doctors research scientists on both sides all attacking each other that know my ways the best way there but otherwise, it's like endless is you can go on a you know, social media rabbit hole like looking at this stuff. And then all the trolls that are commenting attacking each other. Oh, yeah, mine is just like, Okay, I understand that side. That's what they're worried about. And my my side that I kind of believe in, okay, maybe I should not go overboard. So in life, my thing is, you know, find things that work for you. And just do stuff in moderation. Like if you're worried about, you know, I just recently started getting into cold plunging and I saw some doctor renowned doctor on tick tock that was talking about how the heart medical Heart Association doesn't recommend it. And you know, what, why would you go against them? Yeah, I just had a person, a doctor, medical doctor on my podcast three weeks ago, that basically was just trash talking the medical Heart Association and how he has friends on the board, and how they were talking about how they just discovered that they've just totally effed cholesterol and everything about it, but they can't let the world know about it. So it's like this is what's happening behind closed doors. So, I mean, we can only do the best we can do I bet you like 100 500 years from now, we're doing everything wrong. But you know, for now, we just kind of work with what's working.

Philip Pape 39:25

But you talk about being a detective early on in this podcast, and N equals one like experiment on yourself when it comes out. And when you when you talk about trying keto, or going to keto to help when I hear people going to carnivore help. I'm like, you know, there's some truth there. So what is the truth? We need to uncover that and for an individual that could be you know, you just change something that was negative detrimental for you. You've gotten out of the way by going to XYZ, whatever it is, it's keto. Now maybe it's not the same thing that's gonna help somebody else go to their thing. But try it. That's cool. Try it out. Like I've had clients who did carnivore a bunch of things. He's got resolved, right, like gut issues and other stuff got resolved. But then we got them out back to a more balanced diet. And they were still okay. Because we identified okay, it was a couple of things that that were in there that were toxic to you. You know what I mean? So that that's, I think, a reasonable approach to take here, not just assume this is the answer. Exactly.

Brad Williams 40:16

And even for myself, like I've even modified back down the other way, from hardcore keto, to basically just a low carb diet, and I'm able to sustain everything, all the benefits that I had before. And it just works with my lifestyle, but

Philip Pape 40:31

your intolerance is I can see how it'd be like, You got to be careful of like, which which is causing the issue. Exactly.

Brad Williams 40:36

So I think no matter what diet anyone's on, or regimen or anything, you know, just, you know, I think everyone across the board knows that movement is good. You know, drink clean water cleaner water, if you can mineralized water, if you can, you know, non processed foods, almost everyone's on the same page on that. But I think once we get past that platform, you know which direction you should take, that's where all the fighting is happening. So you just kind of got to find it through your own journey.

Philip Pape 41:01

Yeah, and just again, to allude, for the listeners, we're gonna have a little conversation, that's a bonus bonus episode to the email list about one of these controversial topics. So maybe it's intermittent fasting, we'll see. Okay, so one more thing about nutrition is the micros right? Not just kept tracking calories and macros but also micros, potassium, calcium, magnesium, so on? What are your thoughts on that? What What should people track what's important for those over 40? You know, what's, what's your approach there?

Brad Williams 41:28

Yeah, so I came across more of that. Another guest that came on my show was just nerded out on all these micro minerals and all the benefits and no, I knew some I didn't really come from an education on that, but you know, I get my bloodwork done, my doctor tells me I need to, you know, increase my calcium, increase my vitamin D, all that kind of stuff, but no, to really optimize it. And so you got to be careful there because you never know what conditions people have always gotta throw out there. You'll do this with your doctor. That's what I did. You know, I found a doctor that vibes with me that's more kind of a little bit on the holistic side and, you know, have a frame of reference to bounce stuff off. And then if he Okay, is it then I do some of the stuff I want to do. But basically, this guest that was on my show just said, you know, start counting your micro minerals and you know, he everyone believes that different RDA or where it should be. I just said let's play it safe. Let's just Google RDA is what's out there and the Medical Association. And he said you'll, you'll be surprised that you'll be very deficient in some of these minerals. Number one being potassium, okay, let's check it out. I was deficient in calcium deficient magnesium severely deficient in potassium, just like he said, high in sodium, even though I was sitting there trying my best to keep that down. And you really the thing was, you didn't really need to watch sodium too much. If you had potassium high enough to match that sodium. Well, your body works great. And he was right on that. But the other one was vitamin D. Like I mentioned before, I'm a cave dweller. I live in gyms. I don't go out ever in the sun, you know, hardly ever. And now that I do more podcasting, it's even worse. So, you know, I had to get a routine with going outside getting some sun and then supplement the rest. Right? And so

Philip Pape 43:05

how did you hold on how did how did you test all this? Was it like with hair with just blood bloodwork bloodwork?

Brad Williams 43:10

Yeah, it'll it'll show your vitamin D or calcium, magnesium, potassium, all the other ones I don't really test for but I just I basically made a graph took all the RDA is of all the all the vitamins, all the minerals. And then I discovered a cool website, when I'm trying to sit here and you know, use trackers to find all the stuff and I'd I'd see all these popular trackers, I can't remember the most popular one. But you know, it was more of a brain for users to update stuff. And they would totally just skip putting all the the micros in, they would only do the macros, right? Right? So you didn't know how much potassium calcium phosphorus was in any of this food. So a cool website that I found was eat this much.com. And basically, you could take every single raw food on this planet. And it would tell you all the macros and micros for being in the raw form or cooked because it does change and it does matter. So I started doing that and just nerd it out and made a whole graph on it. And that's how I discovered oh my god, my potassium is next to nothing. And had some other issues too. And sure enough, I started working on that food first and then supplement if you need to sell more bananas. Yeah. Well, on my Keto world, I can't have stuff like that. So I have a use for avocados and a little bit of coconut water and stuff like that. And green and green veggies. So after I started doing that all sudden, I just noticed a lot of bloat. You know I've always teetered around single digit body fat, but my goal is I want to be able to get back to but yet still having a social life right. And that's that's been the struggle being over 40 Well, I noticed about three pounds of waterway kicked off just by increasing my potassium right there because that's, that's what potassium and sodium do just do a dance with each other so sodium will hold more water in your cells or in your skin attack. sem will pull it intersect intracellularly into your cells and any excess it'll expel out. So already benefits from that. I felt better in the gym because potassium was plays a big role in your electrical components of your muscles and just felt amazing. So that was another thing I really started pushing on clients, you know, be careful, I couldn't really write anything for them. I don't have the degrees to do that. But just put it on their radar. So, you know, that's all I do is just start, like you said, find the detective and trying to find the deficiencies or, or things that can get them to start looking at.

Philip Pape 45:34

Yeah, I think that's great. Especially especially if you have a diet that is restricting something right? Like, whether it is a Keto or vegan for sure. vegans are probably the most at risk of certain deficiencies that may be found mostly in animal products, not not, I mean, you could pretty much get everything from plants to I get it, but it's harder, it's a lot harder. So tracking these in some way. I like that eat this much.com The app that we use on my clients whose macro factor also can track your, your, your macros macros, okay, be aware of it, because some, like you said, it's like stress, it can be hidden in there some deficiency going on, and that's behind a lot of us like poor sleep. Maybe it's magnesium. Just you just don't know. Yeah, that's another one. Yeah. All right. I want to I want to reserve some time. I think one more. One or two more questions here. One, one was from the community, what about very much older individuals like wishing their 60s and 70s? In terms of muscle gain, like, what can they? What can they expect, if let's say they're just getting into it. Now they're training, they're using progressive overload, you know, anything different, there's really the same principles.

Brad Williams 46:37

Same principles, but just know that as you're getting older, the one thing is injuries that are recovery time getting older, is so much setbacks, it can't happen. I mean, right now, I'm 43. And it can't happen. Imagine, you know, my mom is going through osteoporosis, she's, I think she's turning 70 today, actually. And she's going through that she literally just broke her hand, doing some landscaping, a very soft fall, and she put her hand out broke both her bones in her forearm, like, unbelievable. So that's kind of a thing that we're going to be working on. And she's always been standoffish with working out in strength training, but God that's, it's so great. You're building up bones and all that, yeah, and also calcium playing a big part. But you got to you got to worry about these things. And, you know, that's why I kind of revert back to my doing more time under tension, you can cut half the weight down, you can still progressive overload, because, you know, cut the weight down. As long as you can get the four to six seconds doing everything slow, like I've been talking about, and you can go up in weight go up and wait. There's nothing saying you can't do that. And you might still be able to get to the weights that you were doing before. You know, there's, there's all these theories of you know, that that eccentric contraction or doing negatives, gives you get to that ability to recruit more muscle fibers to get you stronger for your other lifts. But I would still, you know, slow down and watches as you age for those types of injuries. And one of the cool things that I've seen in my life for individuals who have like osteoporosis, and that kind of stuff is, remember power plates when those were big? Yeah. So now there's all these different companies that have like, you know, come in the market that cut the price down. But, you know, the whole theory behind the power plate is, you know, it's using G force, by, you know, moving up and down, left and right back and forward to a certain frequency. And it's been shown that, you know, it's like putting you on Mars or a different planet with there's a little bit more gravity. And you can do simple bodyweight movements with no weights, and get just as great as results if you're using 2030 pound weights. And I've seen that and one of my clients bought a machine for his wife, and she started reversing her, her score, whatever the score was for osteoporosis going the other way. So that's what we're, I'm trying to work on with my mom now, because she's not a huge fitness buff. She doesn't want to go to the gym. All right, I'll train her for free or this. Yeah, for sure. But if I can get her on there for 10 minutes a day, and literally just hold a squat, that's it, you don't have to do anything else. You there's benefit in that. So that's, that's going back to that theory of don't give up find something that's going to work for that client. Love

Philip Pape 49:15

it. No, but the idea of that it takes longer to recover is definitely important, especially if you're getting into it, you still have that level of frailty or fragility. I mean, I definitely seen dudes in their 70s, who have been training for 10 years, and they're, they're stronger than me. And you know, they're fine, probably. But this recovery is still slower for other reasons. Okay, last thing, is there a question you wish I had asked? I know, maybe there's some topics we intended to get to and didn't but is there some burning question you wish I'd asked? And then what is your answer?

Brad Williams 49:43

Tough one. I mean, we're gonna we're gonna kind of talk about maybe fasting in the next little segment, or whatever it is. I'm real big on that whole longevity things. So, a lot. I think I've really gotten into that in the last year, year and a half talking all these experts and just seeing cool Old plunging, doing more sauna type red light therapy, no everything's about stressors and in my life, you know, I understand that. That's the whole business of working out and stressing the body to repair itself. And we knew as personal trainers, like, it's not just how much weight you lift, it's, you know, volume two. And it's not just about destroying muscle fibers or they repair themselves, it's about getting the stimulus to trick your hormones into fixing this problem of being under this stress. So now, I'm starting to see that, you know, longevity is a big thing too. And bodybuilding looks great. But at that high elite level, there's nothing longevity about smashing 300 grams of protein every day, destroying your body like that. When all the signs for longevity says we should probably not be working, you know, all this stuff. So

Philip Pape 50:49

bright, low protein don't work out calorie restriction, all that same thing,

Brad Williams 50:53

it comes back to where do you fit in all this and for me, and my podcast, I want to be that middle ground, the liaison between all those research scientists that are putting out all these things on longevity and other research on worms and mice. And these are the longevity supplements you should be taking or cold plunge and all that, but also seen how they look and move. No, I want to I want to have a little bit more muscle mass and you know, feel like a man and still have my personal training. So I kinda want to be the middle ground and doing a little bit of both, though, you

Philip Pape 51:25

know, I also cannot avoid making that, that declaration that these guys just they look like they're about to just break in half and fall over have some disease. And you're telling me to live out if you have to live long, like that. Forget

Brad Williams 51:39

wasn't paying. Yeah. So I was talking to my brother about this. And he's like, my, one of my goals is to make it the 120 I want to be a guy 120 Still, with some decent size and all that. And he's like, you know, who's got the record? And it's like a, you know, some guy in Asia or I think it was a Chilean mountain man made it to like 133 that's just what's recorded, who knows what happened in the past and all that. And then I pulled up a picture of him showing my brother and he's like, shoot me by ever. Yeah. So that's, that's the other problem is I want to look good and, and be functionally fit not just my organs inside this body that's worried by the sun and wilderness. Alright, so

Philip Pape 52:19

on that positive note? No, I'm just kidding. On that, no, no, this has been awesome. Man. This is a really good conversation. And I want listeners to know where to find you. Obviously, there's the podcasts or 40 Fitness hacks, podcasts that they can subscribe to or follow right now because they're listening to the show. Where else can they find you? Yeah, so that

Brad Williams 52:36

podcast and basically just my website over 40 Fitness hacks.com. And it's for zero not spelled out 40. And pretty much those are my main three, I don't do a whole lot of social media. Even though I am on Twitter. The best is just the hit my website and I have a contact form on there, and just shoot me an email.

Philip Pape 52:52

That's one way to keep stress down Stance. Okay, so I'll definitely put those in the show notes. Of course, so listeners can find you, Brad, this has been a really fantastic conversation. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with me and coming on the show. Yeah, thanks

Brad Williams 53:05

for having me, Philip. It's been a pleasure.

Philip Pape 53:09

Philip Pape 1/30/24 Philip Pape 1/30/24

Ep 142: 5 Foolproof Strategies to Hit Your Macros and Finally Master Fat Loss

Are you struggling to hit your macro targets on an almost daily basis? Is your protein too low or fats and carbs too high during a fat loss phase, making it difficult to hit your target calories without somehow being off-balance or going over?

Today, Philip (@witsandweights ) reveals five easy-to-follow techniques to help you consistently hit your daily macros! By following these strategies, you can ensure that you meet your macro goals and optimize your nutrition to support your fitness and health goals.

Today, you’ll learn all about:

0:00 Intro
3:46 A client shares what strategy worked for them
6:28 Balance the bars
10:30 Copy your best days
13:44 Fill in gaps with protein powder
15:54 Smart swaps
18:15 Use AI-generated meal plans
23:16 Outro

Episode Resources:

Download my free Ultimate Macros Guide and High-Protein Recipe Pack
MacroFactor app – use code WITSANDWEIGHTS to extend your free trial to two weeks

Episode summary:

The journey to achieving fitness goals is often intertwined with mastering the art of meal preparation and understanding the nuances of macronutrient tracking. It's a path that requires not just knowledge but also strategic planning and consistent effort. Our latest podcast episode provides listeners with five essential tactics that are foundational to anyone looking to sculpt their physique, whether the goal is fat loss or muscle gain.

Embarking on this transformative journey requires one to develop a reliable system for hitting macro targets. It's not merely about knowing what macros are but being able to apply practical methods to ensure daily dietary success. One such strategy discussed is the concept of 'balance the bars', which involves keeping a close eye on your macronutrient intake throughout the day and making adjustments as needed to ensure you're on track.

Another key tactic is the use of a meal template based on previous successful days. This approach helps alleviate the dinnertime decision fatigue that many face and streamlines the diet by replicating what has already worked. This replication not only simplifies meal planning but also reinforces the habit of healthy eating, making it more sustainable in the long run.

Protein intake is a critical component of any fitness-focused diet, and the podcast delves into how a simple addition of protein powder can help meet daily targets. This strategy is not only efficient but also eliminates the complexity of meal preparation, especially for those with busy lifestyles. Protein powder becomes an easy solution, and when consumed with meals, it can help balance out the macronutrient profile of the day.

Smart swaps are another tool in the arsenal for those seeking to master their diet. The podcast highlights how cravings can be managed through smart substitutions, offering a flexible approach to dieting. Instead of seeing cravings as setbacks, they become opportunities to make better choices without feeling deprived.

Finally, the episode discusses the revolutionary impact of artificial intelligence on meal planning. With AI, the creation of meal plans can be tailored to individual macro targets, making it easier for anyone to achieve nutritional balance. This innovative approach leverages technology to make meal planning more efficient and less daunting.

As the podcast episode unfolds, listeners are not only provided with actionable advice but also the encouragement to reach out for personalized guidance if needed. The episode is a testament to the host's commitment to helping listeners navigate their fitness journey with clarity and confidence.

In conclusion, the journey to achieving your macro goals and mastering meal prep is an ongoing process that requires both dedication and a willingness to employ new strategies. The five tactics discussed in the podcast serve as a roadmap to dietary success, providing listeners with the tools they need to take control of their nutrition and ultimately, their health.

By incorporating these strategies into your daily routine, you can simplify the complexities of meal planning and macro tracking. The end goal is not just to achieve a balanced diet but to foster a lifestyle that promotes optimal health and well-being. The podcast episode stands as a valuable resource for anyone ready to transform their diet and elevate their fitness journey.

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Get notified of new episodes. Use your favorite podcast platform or one of the buttons below. Then hit “Subscribe” or “Follow” and you’re good to go!

Transcript

Philip Pape 00:00

Are you struggling to hit your macro targets on an almost daily basis, maybe protein is too low, or fats and carbs are too high during a fat loss phase, making it difficult to hit your target calories without somehow being off balance or going over. Today, I'm revealing five foolproof strategies to hit your macros consistently. Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host, Philip Pape. And this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger, optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition. We'll uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry. So you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in Wits & Weights

Philip Pape 00:49

community Welcome to another solo episode of the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host, Philip Pape. And in our last episode 141 Why I'm getting fluffy before I get jacked. I discussed the emotions that you might feel about your body when gaining weight to build muscle and getting a little fluffy on the way I shared my personal journey regarding body image and strategies to help you navigate these challenges. Today for episode 142 Five foolproof strategies to hit your macros. And finally master fat loss, we are diving into the art of macro tracking for effective fat loss, you will learn five foolproof strategies to accurately hit your macro targets, which is an essential skill to develop when you first start tracking, whether it's during the initial awareness stage, or going after a goal like fat loss or building muscle. Now my goal for this episode is to include some strategies that you may not have thought of, but are some that I commonly recommend to my clients. And the fun thing about this podcast is occasionally I think of topics that are really annoying people every day when they reach out to me, things that are should be simple, should be foundational, and yet they get stuck. And the purpose of this podcast is to get you the information you need to get to that foundational skill level, you know, I want you to be able to be training and eating the way you want for your goals, tracking for awareness, all the things we talked about here, before you would ever think about picking up the phone for coaching from me because my goal is not to take you from zero to 80. It's to take you from 80 to 95 or 99. And what I mean by that is I value action takers. I'm an action taker, I love to try to do it myself early on, and build some of those basic skills. And that's why as a coach, I'm not big into recipes and meal plans and things like that. I'm more about helping you go from good to great and optimize the things you've already started to do. So for example, when people when people reach out to me, they're already doing pretty good, and somewhat consistent with things. But now they want to go to the next level to get to that 95 99%. So the fun thing about some of these episodes is they give you all the information for free on how to build those basic foundational skills. And when I hear that people are frustrated in a particular area. As with some of these basics of macro tracking, this is the perfect way to get you those answers. So earlier this week, a client sent me a message after we had used one of these strategies to help with meal planning. Because in my weekly check in one of the questions I asked is, What are your wins for the week? I asked about your momentum builders your lessons. And rather than say, here's how you should do it. I like to ask clients, how would you do it or given the different options I've given you? What is the one that works best for you in your life and your lifestyle, very personal approach because we want it to be sustainable. So here's what she said, quote, clearly, it's easier if I plan a day ahead, what I think I'm going to eat, I'm not one of those people that has to eat with a feel in the moment. So it's very doable, I just have to put time into it for the whole day, instead of just one meal. I did enjoy cooking some chicken breasts and flavored them really nicely. Working from home, it's sometimes hours before I think of eating because there's no one to eat with or nowhere to go. It's very satisfying to plan the meals a day before and see the totals and know that it's going to be better than winging it. Now, this is basic meal planning. And she had already had lots of success, this client with tracking and shifting HER protein and strength training. And she wanted me to work with her because there was just some some nagging areas that were keeping her stuck and preventing her from fully optimizing exactly what she wanted to be where she wanted to be on a consistent basis. And so I helped her use some very simple strategies and hacks to track better and this was meal planning specifically, which is one of the strategies I'm going to talk about today, but I'm going to mention one Very simple hack to make it easy. And she used that, to take it forward. So I'm gonna give that to you for free today. Like anything else, it's a skill. And if you're feeling overwhelmed, even after listening to this episode, and you want a few personalized ideas, just like I shared about my client, just reach out and set up a free call with me, use the link in my show notes for a 30 minute results breakthrough session, and we're just going to hop on a zoom and answer your questions. More importantly, I think is we're going to get you clarity on the next steps so that you can make progress. So you might be stuck not sharing where to go, not sure where to go next. On that call, it's just you and me, you know, no selling no pitching. And by the way, I'm a pretty friendly and compassionate guy to talk to. So it's the same guy you hear on this podcast. So if you if you like what you hear, it's the same thing. If you don't, then you know, I get it, no hard feelings. So if if you're nervous if you're intimidated about having a call with me for some reason, just remember, I'm a fellow human with the same dreams, the same struggles. And what you learn on this show is what you get in real life. So I invite you to click the link in my show notes to set up that free call. I always have spots available, I keep my calendar open, and then I add new ones as needed. You could also go to wits & weights.com, and click free call at the top and set that up. Okay, let's dive into today's topic. Five foolproof strategies to hit your macros. And finally master fat loss. Here we go. The first strategy is what I call balance the bars. If you use macro factor or another nutrition app, I don't know why you would use another app. But let's just go with Matt macro factor for now. If you don't use it, what are you waiting for? Maybe this is the first time you've ever heard of it, because it's the first episode you listen to. You're really lucky then because I'm envious of you for having heard about macro factor for the first time. Go download it. I'll include the link in the show notes, use my code, Wits &, Weights all one word, to get an extra week on the free trial, it's going to change your life as far as nutrition tracking goes. And by the way, the comments I mentioned earlier about helping you go from 80% to 95, or 99%. Most of my clients are already using macro factor before they start working with me, because I've mentioned it to them and they follow the podcast. And they want to set up that initial awareness. But whether you are or you're not, it's a game changer. So in macro factor when you go to your food log, and you tap the macros at the top, it takes you to a screen called nutrition overview. And on the nutrition overview screen, you can see a lot of things you can see your micronutrients. And you can see your macros, of course, you and it shows you the information for today. You can also view averages for the last few weeks, months, and so on. But just for today, you could see where your macros stand in terms of percentages. So carbs, protein, fat, or I should say fat, or protein, fat carbs and that order. And it will tell you what percentage of each relative to your target you've eaten so far. So there are little horizontal bars, I think of them almost like runners in a race. I wish there was little like, you know, turtle and tortoise and some other animal on the three bars. But you're trying to keep them in line throughout the day, your goal is to keep them more or less in sync, and then adjusting the ones that are farther behind to help them catch up in the race. And I know that sounds kind of trivial, but it really isn't. Because how many times have you gone through the day, and it's now mid afternoon or maybe approaching dinner. And all of a sudden, you have been logging your food, but you haven't really been paying attention to the relative percentages necessarily. And you notice that one macro is far behind, maybe it's carbs, maybe it's protein, for a lot of you it's protein, fats are usually not the issue. And honestly, in my opinion, fats can just land wherever and if they're behind, they're behind, I don't even worry about it. I worry more about carbs and protein, unless you as an individual are the type of person that just avoids fats at all costs. And we need to get more fat in your diet. But that's pretty rare. So what I often see is you fall behind on protein, or if you're in a gaining phase, right? If you're trying to build muscle, you might be falling behind on carbs. That's that's pretty common. That's what's going on with me. Now, during a fat loss phase, it's usually protein. So you look at the percentages, and it's very simple. Balance the bars, when you have breakfast, balanced the bars. Let's say they're not balanced on your next snack or meal. Pick, pick foods that balanced the bars, pick foods that take the ones that are falling behind and helps them catch up. So if protein is behind, then that's your priority for the next meal. If carbs are behind, that's the priority for the next meal. So it's a quick visual takes two seconds, you click on it, check out where you are, okay, you know, proteins behind and we gotta get on top of that. And there you go. The visual tracking aspect of it. There's actually there's research that supports it being a an enhancer to adherence and you know, sticking With things, I just think it's convenient and quick, so it takes less time. And I'm always a fan of things that take less time, rather than trying to figure out the numbers, right? The other thing is by looking at it as relative percentages, you don't have to think in terms of grams necessarily just know that one is behind, and you need more of it. So treat it as this fun daily challenge balanced the bars, and even low in protein at lunch plan, a protein rich dinner, and you'll be all set. Okay, so that's strategy number one. Strategy number two. Now, I don't have fancy names for all these strategies. Strategy number two is just to copy your best days. So this is the meal planning strategy. That's similar to what I used with my client who I quoted earlier. And all you have to do is go find a previous day, when everything just clicked, and you hit your macro targets effortless lessly. You know, you call them an eye, the ideal day or your lucky day or your perfect day. I mean, there's no such thing as perfect. But in terms of quantitative numbers, it's the day that got pretty darn close to what your intended on a daily basis. And now that's a blueprint, that's a blueprint for future success. Now, of course, it should be a relatively routine day that you can easily replicate, as opposed to some oddball, you know, you're on vacation and went, and just everything clicked in that way, a routine day, and all you're going to do is replicate it as a meal plan. That's all you're going to do. It's a template, you've got the confidence, he did it before. So now you could do it again. And now this is your template for a new successful day.

Philip Pape 11:35

Hey, this is Philip. And I hope you're enjoying this episode of Wits & Weights, I started Wits & Weights to help people who want to build muscle lose fat and actually look like they lift. I've noticed that when people improve their strength and physique, they not only look and feel better, they transform other areas of their life, their health, their mental resilience and their confidence in everything they do. And since you're listening to this podcast, I assume you want the same things the same success, whether you recently started lifting, or you've been at this for a while and want to optimize and reach a new level of success. Either way, my one on one coaching focused on engineering your physique, and body composition is for you. If you want expert guidance and want to get results faster, easier, and with fewer frustrations along the way to actually look like you lift, go to wits & weights.com, and click on coaching, or use the link in my show notes to apply today. I'll ask you a few short questions to decide if we're a good fit. If we are, we'll get you started this week. Now back to the show. The advanced tip to take this to the next level, of course, is pre planned tomorrow, right now, based on that template and pre log your food, you know in macro factor or whatever tool you're using pre log it and treat that as a meal plan. Right. That's your personal meal plan based on what you like to eat. Because you've done it before, not because I as your coach or some template online is giving you a meal plan. Alright, so there you go. If you're busy, if you have a busy week, if you lose track of time, if you forget to plan out your day, you've already got your plan in your back pocket. It's any successful day you've had in the past. Just go back and repeat it. And if it was recent, chances are you have similar foods in the house. Maybe if it's even something you prepped, go after it. That's it. It can be so powerful to simply give yourself a plan for the next day and relieve all that decision fatigue and all that stress and just execute and guess what, if you don't do it perfectly, it's fine, you're gonna get close. And as you're going through, you can make swaps it's fine, but at least you've got a template to work from rather than a black hole of uncertainty. All right, strategy number three is to fill in your gaps with protein powder. Alright, protein powder is a versatile tool. It is not I don't really consider it a processed food. It's a minimally processed food. I also don't consider it a supplement per se because it is food. It's not like you're trying to kind of have a shortcut by filling in your nutrient gaps with with a pill. It's just food it's just processed from milk, or it's ground up you know P and rice in terms of a vegan powder. And when you when you fill in the gaps of protein powder, you have a quick and easy decision ready to go and you're gonna hit your protein. One way I like to do this I think I heard this on mind pump a while back is to add a half scoop or even a full scoop to a glass of water and drink that with every meal. Just make that your drink with your meal. Instead of thinking of it as like separate protein shakes, or whatnot. The other thing that holds people up is they're trying to make these fancy shakes. They're like protein powder and yogurt and Pete You know, peanut butter powder and some cocoa powder and then we add a little bit of sweetener or maybe a banana. They get complicated and thinking that protein powder can only deliver heard in that way, guess what, a nicely flavored protein powder and throw it in water, you go the down, it tastes pretty good, super easy. Get a blender bottle, shake it up, you're fine. Or mix it with almond milk, which has almost no calories, but has that creaminess of more creaminess like milk. There you go super easy, don't make it more complicated. Alright, so we know how important it is to get protein, I'm assuming that your protein target is sufficient for muscle building, and you're listening to the show. That's a whole nother topic is what the macros need to be. We're not covering that today, plenty of other episodes that I can point you to for that. But getting enough protein, there's all sorts of ways we do it. Adding that half scoop to a glass of water and drinking out with every meal is a quick way to add in what half scoop has like 15 or so grams. So that's, that's three meals, that's 45 more grams of protein right there. Okay, strategy number four is smart swaps, right? Flexibility. We're all about flexibility and adaptability. And that means that even if you do have a meal plan, it can change, that's fine. If you're craving something, find a similar food that satisfies the craving, for example. All right, so an example would be, you have a sweet tooth. So go for a really sweet fruit, like strawberries. In a fat loss phase strawberries are amazing, because they are these big, juicy, you know, plump, sweet, I mean, almost tastes like there's just sugar coming out of them. And yet, amazingly, they have very few calories, you know, you could have a huge bowl of strawberries for like 100 calories, they're full of water, so they fill you up, they have fiber of all the things and and they satisfy your hunger and they satisfy your sweet tooth. Right. And so now, I just went off on a tangent because the point of this, the point of the strategy is for macro balance, right, we're talking about how to hit your macros. So my point here was swapping one food for another that has a different macro makeup, even though it's a similar food, okay, and that could be like if you're going to have ice cream. And I don't know if these are the best examples in my notes, I actually didn't put down examples how to think of somebody ice cream, which is mostly fat and sugar, fat and carbs, right from the from the milk, and sweet sweeteners and whatever other ingredients, and you swap it for a protein like a casein protein with almond milk kind of pudding, that's like ice cream. And now all of a sudden, you've gone from fat and carbs all the way over to protein, like that's a huge swap. So the key is to find a similar food. Okay, and similar doesn't have to be like the exact same thing. It could be. You know, it could be chicken breast versus chicken thigh, but it could be quinoa versus rice versus potatoes. It could be ribeye versus sirloin. It could be any mix of any macros that are similar but have a different balance. And usually that balance comes in the form of for example, protein density. So even going from

Philip Pape 17:59

going from cottage cheese, you know, full fat cottage cheese to 1% cottage cheese, or, you know, zero fat. Yogurt, right? So any any swaps that give you a different macro makeup. And this is actually going to lead to my fifth strategy here, which I think you can use for the last one, and that is to use AI generated meal plans. Now, this, you might be like, Wait a minute. So your nutrition coach telling me you use AI generated meal plans? Yeah, cuz I hate making meal plans. I don't know why you like I don't want to make meal plans. I just want to enjoy my food and hit my macros. And as I evolve the food selection that hits my macros, that becomes future meal plans just like step strategy number two, right, copying your best days. But guess what? There's chat GBT and all these other AI tools that I think are, are terrible for certain things. They're terrible for taking away creativity. But they're great for tedious things. And so if you have a certain target for calories, proteins, fats, carbs, you just feed it into the tool and say, create for me an entire day's meal plan of, you know, three meals and one snack to hit these calories and macros. Right and just let it come up with a plan for you. Now you can get more fancy, you could say, you know I have these foods. What meal can I make that meets this macro balance, right? Or? Here's where I am on my macro balance. What can I eat to correct it and make it more balanced? Like I'm behind on my protein? What can I eat? So it takes all the guesswork out. It avoids lots of again, decision fatigue. When things seem daunting, you know, technology can sometimes be helpful in that regard. And before long what's going to happen is you're going to find and gravitate to foods and meals that work for you with that balance and you will become an expert at your own ability to balance everything you will know as soon and I've seen it with the worst cases people who are just way off of what they need to be, they have no idea how they're going to get there. And we take one step at a time. And we start balancing, balancing balancing get closer, closer, closer, and before long, you're getting your 160 grams of protein, you're keeping the fat, modest, and you're getting your carbs, right. And it works. So those are five strategies. Just to recap, number one, balance the bars balance all the macros in your nutrition, overview and macro factor. Number two, copy your best days, use the days when everything clicked as your template for future meal plans. Number three, fill in the gaps of protein powder. One easy hack is to put half a scoop in a glass of water with every meal. Number four, make smart swaps. Find foods that have different macro different macros than the one you are going to have. Because you're trying to get things to be more balanced. And it can be similar food, or it can be a completely different food, but just make a swap. And don't assume you have to stick to the exact plan that you put together for yourself because we want to be adaptable and flexible. And number five, use AI to generate meal plans for you or generate meals or suggest foods or whatever that can fill in those gaps. And that way, if you're working, you know, even if you're working with me if I'm your coach, have I used AI in the backend? Absolutely what I encourage you to use AI for yourself. Absolutely. I'm a big, you know, do it for yourself type of person. My goal is to help you find the resources that work for you. And if you want to, if you don't want to use AI find we're gonna find, you know, five other potential options that will work for you. I've got lists, I've got guides, I've got tables, I've got all that stuff, of course, but we might as well use tools and you know, engineering and systems and all of those to make our lives easier. Why not? There you have it. Alright, five foolproof strategies to hit your macros every time. There are many more out there. Of course, if none of those struck or resonated with you always reach out and ask for more strategies for your specific situation. You can do that by going to our Facebook community. Totally free you join, you use the Ask Phillip thread, which is a weekly live q&a. And you can ask me a question. Also, as mentioned earlier, if you're feeling overwhelmed, even after listening to this episode, and you want a few personalized ideas, just reach out and set up that free call with me. Use the link in my show notes. It's a 30 minute results breakthrough session on Zoom will hop on that Zoom will answer your questions and we'll get you clarity on the next steps. So you can make progress on one human to another making a habit together. Just go to wits & weights.com, like free call and or use the link in my show notes for the free 30 minute results breakthrough session. Okay, so that was a fairly short one. As far as these episodes go. I hope it was helpful to you. Reach out if you have questions or follow ups or other tips. In our next episode 143 unique over 40 workout strategies for more muscle energy and recovery with Brad Williams, you'll learn about effective training styles, managing stress and inflammation and optimizing nutrition and of course practical strategies for maintaining a strong, healthy lifestyle beyond 40. As always, stay strong. And I'll talk to you next time here on the Wits & Weights podcast. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights, please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong

Philip Pape 1/26/24 Philip Pape 1/26/24

Ep 141: Why I’m Getting Fluffy Before I Get Jacked

Do you struggle with your body image when gaining weight to build muscle? How can you cope with the emotional challenges of getting a little fluffy on the way to your fitness goals? Philip gets real and raw about the emotions you might feel about your body when gaining weight to build muscle and getting a little fluffy on the way. Philip shares his journey regarding his body image so that you'll gain some insights and strategies to help you navigate these challenges. Tune in for an honest, heartfelt conversation about embracing strength, inside and out.

Do you struggle with your body image when gaining weight to build muscle? How can you cope with the emotional challenges of getting a little fluffy on the way to your fitness goals?

Today, Philip (@witsandweights ) gets real and raw about the emotions you might feel about your body when gaining weight to build muscle and getting a little fluffy on the way. Philip shares his journey regarding his body image so that you'll gain some insights and strategies to help you navigate these challenges. Tune in for an honest, heartfelt conversation about embracing strength, inside and out.

Today, you’ll learn all about:

0:00 Intro
3:06 Benefit to building muscle first
6:44 Motivation for building muscle mass
10:26 Women can build muscle
16:29 Your goal and feelings are correct
22:40 Challenges when you're bulking
28:24 Have realistic goals
38:39 Focus on the long-term progress
39:44 Outro

Episode summary:

The pursuit of muscle growth is not just a physical endeavor; it's a complex emotional journey marked by peaks and valleys of mental resilience. As we endeavor to sculpt our bodies, the inevitable weight gain that accompanies muscle building can be a source of internal conflict. Despite knowing the scientific rationale behind the process, the sight of rising numbers on the scale can trigger a torrent of emotions, from doubt to frustration. It's an intricate dance between accepting temporary weight gain and keeping our eyes on the ultimate prize: a stronger, more defined physique.

This emotional landscape is further complicated by societal standards of beauty and fitness. We are constantly bombarded with images of chiseled bodies and lean physiques, setting an expectation that can feel at odds with the bulking phase of muscle development. The pressure can be especially pronounced for women, who face unique challenges in reconciling the desire for strength with the societal ideal of slimness. Yet, it is in the heart of these struggles that the true transformation occurs—not just in the mirror but within the mind itself.

The process of getting 'fluffy' before becoming jacked is not one to be shied away from. It is a strategic cycle that, when embraced, can lead to significant muscle growth and improved body composition. By accepting the discomfort of temporary weight gain, we lay the groundwork for success, whether navigating this journey independently or with the guidance of a coach. As fitness enthusiasts, we must also appreciate the adaptability of our bodies and their capacity to grow stronger, regardless of age or gender.

The psychological side of this journey is equally critical. Overcoming mental barriers involves recognizing that plateaus are natural occurrences in the realm of strength training. The frustration of extended periods of not seeing the desired physical changes can be mitigated by setting performance-driven goals. By focusing on what our bodies can do—lifting heavier weights, performing more repetitions—we shift the emphasis from aesthetics to functionality, fostering a more empowering relationship with our fitness routines.

Adapting to our body's feedback is crucial for progress. When a plateau hits, it may be an indicator that it's time to adjust our strategy. Whether that means increasing caloric intake, enhancing sleep quality, or modifying training variables, such as volume or intensity, these changes can lead to breakthroughs in muscle growth. The key is to remain attuned to the signals our bodies send us and to respond with calculated modifications to our training and nutrition plans.

Finally, addressing body image concerns is a significant aspect of the muscle-building journey. It's essential to set realistic expectations and develop a comprehensive plan to navigate the bulking phase with reduced stress and anxiety. Patience and self-understanding are vital as we come to terms with the idea that gaining a bit of extra fat is a manageable aspect of the process. This acknowledgment empowers us to continue pursuing our goals with confidence and self-compassion.

In essence, the journey to muscle mastery is as much about building mental strength as it is about physical gains. By embracing the full spectrum of emotions that accompany this process, we can emerge not just with a transformed body, but also with a fortified mindset that will serve us well beyond the gym!

Episode Resources:

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Transcript

Philip Pape 00:00

Today we're getting real and raw about the emotions you might feel about your body when gaining weight to build muscle and getting a little fluffy on the way. I'm going unscripted today to share my personal journey regarding my body image, so that you will gain some insights and strategies to help you navigate these challenges. Tune in for an honest heartfelt conversation about embracing strength inside and out. Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host, Philip Pape. And this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger, optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry. So you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in Wits & Weights

Philip Pape 00:53

community Welcome to another solo episode of the Wits &. Weights Podcast. Today I'm doing something completely different. I am going raw, I am going real, I am going mostly unscripted. And by mostly anyone who knows me knows that I could never do something like this completely without thought or planning whatsoever. But I assure you, if you were looking at my notes in front of me, they're extremely minimal. Usually I spend quite a bit of time preparing an outline, references, side notes, quotes, things like that. And today is a little more unscripted. And what I wanted to do was talk about the feelings that I've had and the experience that I've had, while gaining a little extra weight during the muscle building phase. Now there's nothing super unique about this phase, versus the last few times I did this. But these things recur, right, they come up again. And a lot of the things I feel and experience are very common among my clients, and individuals I've spoken to. And they're the fears, a lot of them are fears of those of you who've never gone through muscle building phase before. And this topic comes up time and time again, because we talk about how important it is to build muscle. And yet, if you've got, let's say 20 or 30 pounds to lose, and by that I mean you're kind of carrying a little extra weight, and you don't feel great in your body, and you don't feel comfortable in your clothes. And so you think logically, the next step is to lose weight, even if you do it the quote unquote, right way and lose primarily fat and hold on to muscle. Because you're eating protein, your strength training and all of that, you may still feel like you that's the direction you have to go, because then you'll feel better and you'll be in a good place, and a good level of leanness from which to build muscle. Now, that's not necessarily a false thing, I have had plenty of clients who the first thing we do after the pre diet phase is going into a fat loss phase, who might lose 1015 20 pounds, maybe more if they're bigger, and then build muscle. And we'll tend to work together for maybe 912 months or longer because it takes that much time to go through these full phases. However, if you're not excessively overweight from a health perspective, and you don't mind about being in the body, you're in for a little while longer, I think there's a lot of benefit to building muscle first, just because of the downstream effects of having that extra muscle for your health. But also for your ability to lose fat later and become leaner and get the body you're really going for in the physique you're going for, but possibly at a much higher weight on the scale. In other words, it makes scale weight less important, which is the end goal here because we don't want to be focusing on just that number. Now, I'm saying all this because the biggest fear people have even if they have gone through a fat loss phases, I'm going to gain all this weight back and I'm not going to look great. I'm not going to like my body. And it seems like it's going to take a while because it takes time to build muscle. And the answer is yes, yes, yes. Like those feelings are valid, that you may not love the body or in. But also remember that to get where you want to go requires some trade offs in the meantime, to get something else. And that's something else is the strength and the muscle required to build up that that physique that you're looking for that defined toned, lean whatever physique. So I've come to terms with this over the years. And I was lucky, I was lucky because the first time I ever built muscle properly. And you may have heard me talk about this on other podcasts. I gained a lot of weight in the process because I wasn't tracking my nutrition. And I was just indiscriminately eating and drinking. And by drinking I mean lots of whole milk. In all my shakes, I had whole milk. And I was just eating a lot of food including a lot of processed food, junk food, whatnot. Not a lot of fiber, not a lot of fruits and vegetables, just just maybe with dinner when my wife would cook that for me, but I wouldn't include a lot otherwise, thinking that I just needed to gain tons of mass. Now, on the plus side, I realized how helpful that was to building muscle and strength because all my lifts doubled or tripled in that first that first novice progression I went through. Would they have gone up as much without eating as much I have no Do I haven't gone through it. But I know from working with clients that if you're at maintenance, or if you're not eating in much of a surplus, it's going to be harder, and you are going to build muscle at a slower rate. So having gone through that, and sort of got lucky in that I gained a bunch of weight at the time, not on purpose or not, in spite of my fears, but just because I thought that's what I had to do. And I did it. I realized then oh, no, I wasn't, I wasn't thrilled with how much extra fat I had put on. And that's what led me to my first fat loss phase. And I did that, and that probably took Ooh, 1620, maybe 24 weeks it was it was rather drawn out, because I was kind of learning the ropes at the time, and I didn't have a coach, if you have a coach, you can do it much more efficiently and effectively, with all the plateaus on the way you know how to get through them. But I got through that fat loss phase got down to fairly lean level. And then I went through several muscle building and cutting phases since then, each time learning a ton more about my body, but also realizing that there are patterns that repeat themselves. And one of those is that as I'm gaining weight, when I'm say, four or five months into a six to 12 month building phase, I start to get uncomfortable with my body in several ways, you know, physically and visually. And I've learned to embrace that. Okay. And that's what I'm talking about today. You notice this is totally unscripted, not polished. I'm not I'm not sharing reviews on the podcast, I'm not, you know, giving you a call to action or anything like that just gonna jump right into today's episode. And there's a reason I call it what I'm calling it. And that is why I'm getting fluffy before I get jacked. Okay, that's the name of the episode. You know, my motivation is for wanting to gain weight and muscle mass is to continue to be strong, capable, confident to be able to walk into a room and people kind of turn their heads like, well, that guy is an outlier. To be able to be, you know, the fitness guy on the beach, all of this. And look, I'm in my 40s. I didn't start this until I was almost 40. And some of you are wondering, Well, can I even do this at x age 4045 5055? The answer is yes. If you've never done anything like this, if you've never lifted properly followed your nutrition, gone through cuts or books, or even a proper maintenance phase, you can still do it at any age and get massive progress and results. But the biggest sticking point for so many people is the building muscle phase, because it takes time. And by time, I mean, at least six months. Okay, it takes time. Now, if you were to work with me for, say, six months in my coaching program, and you said, I love this message about building muscle, I'm willing to give it a go, I'm willing to even gain a little fat in the process. But I also want to lose fat, I would first I would say what's most important to you. But then I would say okay, we can actually, we can actually break this up to do both. And we're just going to compress the timelines to be less optimal. So we'll spend probably a month with the with the maintenance phase, getting the habits down to training that consistency, then three months or so. Or maybe even Yeah, three months or so building muscle, okay, and then and then a month and a half or so and fat loss phase. And then we come out of that into maintenance. So you're kind of compressing everything. Now if you have a year to work with, you can think of a year in terms of seasons, and periods of nutrition. And once you've done this a once or twice, you can start to synchronize your muscle building and fat loss phases with the season. And where you're dieting at most, two, maybe three months out of the year, but more likely to and then you're building or maintenance the other 10 months. And the dieting phases are lined up with where you want to become the leanest for the year, which for a lot of people is the summertime, right or the you know, beach weather, the warm weather when you're not wearing as many clothes. So if you think about that timing, that means that 10 months out of the year. So let's say theoretically, from late summer, to the following spring, all through the holidays all through the the Cold War, cold winter months, and when you tend to eat a lot as well. All that time is at least at maintenance calories, or building muscle. And if your goal is to become leaner and develop a better physique and push your PRs in the gym, and train effectively and feel great while doing it all. I'm going to strongly encourage that you build muscle which means you want to be in a calorie surplus. Now that calorie surplus is not going to be massive, it's going to be the the amount of surplus that allows you to gain if you're a male, probably two to three pounds a month. If you're female, probably one to two pounds a month. Now do the math. We're gonna go with females here because I'm gonna be honest, women will make up about two thirds of my client base and probably Be my podcast listeners are also ones that tend to express the most fear about gaining too much weight during this process, I tend to have less men doing that even though some do, because a lot of men are like, Yeah, whatever, I'll just I'll put on the belly. And, you know, there's, there's a little bit of a double standard out there as well, let's be honest of how people are judged for that better or worse perception or not. All of that, okay. And I'm not going to get into the politics of all body image stuff. But where I was going with this is if you're a female, and I say, hey, let's, let's build muscle for 10 months, at, even if it's one pound a month, we'll do the math, that's 10 pounds of weight gain. And if you are, like 150 pound female, that might seem like a lot, like 10 pounds of weight gain is a lot, especially if you think in your head your quote, unquote, ideal weight is, say, 130, well, aren't we going the other direction. And so I'm going to throw in a few caveats to that right to try to convince you but one of those is going to be, you know, of those 10 pounds you gain, if you're a newer, lifter, half of that, or more is going to be muscle, and then you only then have five, or four or five pounds of fat to then lose, which will take no time at all. And now you get into a cycle of like, Okay, that's interesting. So I can be spending most of the year, eating a lot of food, feeling great in the gym, getting stronger, my lists going up, getting more sleep, having less systemic chronic stress, because I have these beautiful, like, acute stressors of being in the gym and lifting heavy. And all of this and my hormones are fully firing in an optimal mode. Are you going to take that right, like and that's, that's part of the sales pitch, so to speak for,

Philip Pape 11:38

of one of the things I'm going to go through throughout this episode is like getting back to focus on on the positives, focusing on the positives of what we're getting out of it. So I might ramble a little bit in the show, but hopefully not because it's just you and me, right? You the listener, me we're having a conversation. Imagine your favorite beverage in your hand or whatever activity you're doing. And just, you know, you know, we're having a conversation and think about the fears and the scenarios that I bring up and whether they relate to you and then what we can do about them. So, back to back to sort of my personal experience with, you've might have seen me or heard me joke about the power belly, I talk about it with my lifting buddies and clients as well, it's usually it's usually guys that are talking about that, and we talk about the power belly. And that is just having more abdominal fat, which men tend to have more abdominal fat, but women tend to have more thighs, but everyone's a little different. And I know for me personally, like the first thing to go when I started gaining weight is my abs. And honestly, I didn't have them for my whole life until a few years ago anyway. So I'm cool with that, knowing that I can get them back. And so the power of belly is just that you're starting to get this app abdominal fat. And correlated with that is your lifts all start going up. And so you're, you're more powerful, you're more strong, you're able to push more, you can think of it as like, Power Lifting belly, right, like, Okay, I've got a power belly, but I'm hitting PRs on my deadlift. So hell yeah. Right. So that it's part of the muscle building process, right? Now, that's not to say that I don't every day, look in the mirror and think, oh, man, I'm like, months away from seeing my abs like, I've got, you know, a saw, I'm saw, right. And we see that about ourselves too soft, I posted a photo of myself doing my best to try to get in just the right angle, and show off a little bit of bicep, where I've got no definition whatsoever, because everything's covered in fat. And if you look at some of the really strong bodybuilders or lifters who've been doing this for many years, when they go into a building phase, if you look at their photos at the end of their phases, they've lost a ton of definition. All right, and you rarely see those photos because it doesn't sell on social media, right? You rarely see those. So the picture that you're fed on social media of people who are jacked and ripped all the time is 100%. False, let's just put it that way that is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of people who look that way first of all, and the algorithm is just showing those to you. And secondly, you can only look that way at your leanest at a practically an unhealthy level of leanness. Now, there is a healthy level of leanness that you can walk around with, after you've built muscle for say, five to 10 years, and you've gotten closer to genetic potential. And you're fairly lean, but not super lean that everyone, anyone I've ever met would be completely thrilled with to be at that point. I think that's what we're trying to get what they call lifestyle lean. And yet even with that, if you don't spend some time in a surplus, gaining some body fat and losing a little bit of that definition, you're not going to maximize the speed at which you build the muscle. And you might be okay with that. So you might be okay taking the next 15 years to try to slowly build muscle. But a lot of people I've met would rather build, say 80% of their potential muscle. I'm just throwing a number out there over the next two or three years. Then take 1015 years to maybe Get there, right. And then over the next two to three years, you're making some sacrifices in terms of your body fats. Okay? So there are these complex feelings we have about body image. And I definitely hear that a lot more from women than men, but I have them, the men I talked to have them as well. And there's also a sort of different backlash out there, where very strong lifters will make fun of or joke around with people who are trying to lose body fat and saying like, Hey, don't you know, you're skinny man, you're too skinny, like people will say that. And that's, that's a, that's a similar form of quote unquote, body shaming. Now I personally don't, I find it hilarious because the people I hang out with we joke with each other. And we know we're doing that. And it's all good. But if anyone listening who knows someone else, who is in this journey for their fitness, they're going to be at a different level of strength, and muscle building and fatness and health than you, and also at a different level than other people their age, right. And if you're this person, you know who I'm talking about where, especially if you're a woman, and guys in the gym, make comments about you, that are just unwarranted. They're just inappropriate. And they're stupid, right? They have no idea what you're going through. And by the way, and you could joke in your head, like, I bet I can, you know, I bet I can deadlift more than that guy. Right? But but maybe you can't. And honestly, it doesn't. It doesn't matter. I'm just saying that that's something that, you know, we joke around. I guess what I'm going with all this is, is very personal. And if you're listening, just know that whatever you feel is correct. And also whatever your goal is, is correct. And the question is how to accept all the things that go along with pursuing and achieving that goal. So that on the balance, you are not in cognitive dissonance, but actually very satisfied with the choices you've made. And that's hard, because if your goal really is to get stronger build muscle, and you know, it takes gaining some weight in the process, you have to and this is one of the few times I say you have to you have to accept the fact that you're going to gain weight, so the scale weights gonna go up, and that there's some body fatness that comes along for the ride. That's just a fact. But you also can recognize that there are many, many, many, many benefits that go along with that before you even get to the, to the end goal. Alright, so the reason that you have to gain some fat along with muscle is simply because that's the body's storage mechanism. As you are bringing in energy, it's very easy to gain fat. And you can only build new muscle tissue so quickly. So you know, as you're training really hard, you're eating your protein, you're eating your calories. If you try to speed that up, your body can't go any faster on the muscle side. So it's going to go much faster on the fat gaining side, the counter argument to that as well, then I'm just going to, I'm going to stay barely above maintenance, so that I don't gain any fat. But it just doesn't seem to work that way. Assume that you're going to gain half of the weight that you gain as fat. That's a good assumption. It could be even more than that if you're more advanced. But I've definitely in my current gaining phase right now after having done this three times in the past, using my rough estimates of body fat, I'm about a 5050 Right now, a one to one, which is awesome. That's the best I could possibly hope for. So I want you to assume that at least half of what you're going to gain no matter how slowly you try to go is going to be fat. The positive about that is that you might as well then go as fast as you can go until the point where fat starts to outpace muscle. And we kind of know what that is, we know that that's around, like I said before, two to three pounds a month for men, one to two pounds for women. And so it equates to something like point two to point 3% of your body weight per week. Yeah, I think I got that right point to 2.3% of your body weight per week on the upper end, the more advanced you are the lower you go. So once you accept that, then you know, it's a fact and it's logic, that you're gonna gain some fat to gain muscle period. Let's just accept it. That's the first thing. Now let's keep going. Because if you're not going to accept that, then you have to accept a much, much longer road to building muscle and getting the physique physique you want. Then there's this dichotomy between all of these insecurities I just talked about, and the societal judgments and the people making comments. By the way, get those toxic people out of your life, stay away from them, or give them the peace of your mind. Like tell them, hey, this is wrong. Stop making comments about my body. Like this is not appropriate. And if you're in a gym setting, go talk to the manager. Go talk to the instructor, right. Hey, this is Philip and I hope you're enjoying this episode of Wits & Weights, I started Wits & Weights to help people who want to build muscle lose fat and actually look like they lift. I've noticed that when people improve their strength and physique, they not only look and feel better, they train for other areas of their life, their health, their mental resilience and their confidence in everything they do. And since you're listening to this podcast, I assume you want the same things the same success, whether you recently started lifting, or you've been at this for a while and want to optimize and reach a new level of success. Either way more one on one coaching focused on engineering, your physique and body composition is for you. If you want expert guidance, and want to get results faster, easier, and with fewer frustrations along the way to actually look like you lift, go to wits & weights.com, and click on coaching, or use the link in my show notes to apply today, I'll ask you a few short questions to decide if we're a good fit. If we are, we'll get you started this week. Now back to the show.

Philip Pape 20:48

They're the insecurities of what happens when your body shape changes, especially because the place that we usually dislike the most is the place where fat goes to first. And that's not coincidence. It's because we are used to the fact that that's the fattest part of our bodies. And so we've we've tied that to our overall body image. And so it kind of is a vicious cycle, right? So you take those insecurities, but then you take the confidence and the positives about getting physically stronger and building muscle. And we know that changing your body composition for the better, can improve your self image can improve your confidence. And so one of the things that comes to mind is, is there a way to still exude and embrace that confidence that comes from knowing you're stronger, you're bigger in a good way, there's muscle there, right? You're filling in your shirts, you know, slit, the shirts are getting a little tighter. But it's not like in the past, just because you were getting fat, it's because those muscles are starting to pop, right? You're creating this marble sculpture underneath this little layer of fat that's going to just be there ready to get revealed when you when you carve out the fat. And yes, you're going to have emotional ups and downs throughout this. But coming back to the positive of embracing the bigger, stronger body and what you're able to do with that body, not just in the gym. But in real life. Maybe you can help somebody like moving furniture around. One of my clients said that she she had to put something in the car, she went with her husband to Home Depot or something and put something big in the car. And she was like, Whoa, like I it was super easy. I had no idea I'd be able to just like Chuck it over there. And she's in a building phase. And she's she's bigger and stronger. Right. So that's, that's one thing that comes to mind. See, I told you this will be unscripted because I have some minimal notes here I'm trying to get through. But but I'm trying to address each of the things that I relate to. Another thing is, the challenges when you're bulking include us kind of the reverse of what happens when you're losing fat, which is you hit plateaus. So when you're losing fat, we all know we hit a weight loss or fat loss plateau, we get stuck. And we're not sure why. Right? We've talked about that in the past, I'm not going to rehash all the reasons why. But we have the same reasons the other direction, where when you're trying to bulk or lean bulk, whatever term you want to use, you're gonna hit plateaus along the way, for a variety of reasons. And the reason I bring that up here with the whole insecurity discussion about getting fluffy, is because number one, when you hit those plateaus, you feel like it's going to take longer. And now you're like oh, now I have to be fluffy for longer, like, Come on, let's get let's build, let's build it's built. And you know for sure if you're in a plateau, if along with those scale, a plateau, your lifts, all of a sudden that week seem like they're harder, like obviously, you should be progressing anyway. But sometimes the progression to the next level feels a lot harder than the last time. And sometimes it feels easy, you know what I'm talking about. And oftentimes, that's correlated with your metabolism ramping up, and you're not eating enough to keep up with it. Even if you're using macro factors, which I highly recommend everyone listening this app on the market for this fact, the only one that can get you to precisely bulk at just the right rate. So you don't gain too much fat, but you also don't accidentally go into a diet. And if you use macro factor, of course you use my code Wits & Weights, all one word. That's my only plug today. All right. So if you're using macro factors, even then, what I often see and tell me if this isn't true with you, in your head, of course, because this is a one way conversation right now that you hit these plateaus on the scale. And sometimes they your weight even goes down, you're like what is going on eating, you know, whatever it might be, I'm eating 2600 Or I'm eating 3000 Or I'm eating 3200 calories a day. Okay. And I'm still not gaining Well, what's probably happening is if you look at your expenditure chart, it's probably increasing pretty quickly. And macro factor doesn't want to be over responsive, it's conservative. And so the if you're working with me as a client, we see that and I recognize it as a true plateau. We will simply get ahead of it by eating more. And I know that sounds like oh, that's an easy solution. But when you know your expenditure, and you know that the weight stall is because the expenditure is going up, and no other variables have changed, that's excellent information to make a decision from to eat more, without the risk that, oh, I'm going to gain a bunch of body fat, because I'm going past the rate that Philip just talked about of like the one to one. And so by doing that, you can get out of the plateau pretty quickly by being proactive and upping those calories as it ramps up. So one of the big challenges and I talked about this on the heart gaining phase is just eating more and more and more and more. And then, and then that correlating with your feeling of fluffiness, or being bloated or being a little bit uncomfortable, because your stomach is always bold, basically. Or maybe you have a little bit more digestive issues, because now you're just eating so much more. Maybe you have more processed food, maybe you have more or less fiber, right, we know the deal. Eating a lot of food has its own challenges. And so you correlate that with being fluffier, like, yeah, I feel like a slob, right? Like, the I just black. I feel like blah, okay. It feels it. It's like, Oh, am I doing the right thing by eating so much? Like, is this okay? That I'm eating, eating, eating? And yet, at the end of the day, you know, you're not unless you're over consuming by 1000s and 1000s of calories. If you're tracking, you're still gonna stay within that correct ballpark to, to get through the plateau and make progress, but not do it so fast that you gain too much fat. Right? That makes sense. So I kind of wanted to address that piece of it. Because a lot of us will. A lot of people will give up. Like they get to these things. And they think, Am I just pushing myself to be like, too fat? Am I just pushing myself out there? And this is this is disgusting. Like, what am I doing? Right? These doubts that we have. I've been through it enough times now to know that I'm going to hit these sticking points, maybe three or four or five times in a, say eight month building cycle. It'll happen quite a bit. And I actually just went, I think I'm coming through it right now. And every time it happens, here's here's how we spin it around. Here's how we reframe it, instead of saying, oh, that's disgusting, what am I going to do, but blah, blah, embrace the fact that, oh, you know what, I can even eat more this week. Now, you might not think of that as a positive. Because if you're already hitting 3200 3400 3600 calories, and you're getting a little tired of it, that's a different issue we need to talk about. Because if you're at the point where you're 789 months into a building phase, and you just are sick of eating, we don't want to be in that mental state, like physiological. You don't want to be there. And it's probably time to come out of that. But assuming you're not there yet, we can embrace the positive, like I just did this week. And I said, All right, well, I guess I need to overcome snap II too, but I'm going to overshoot my calories by maybe one to 200 every day. And I know it's going to be fine. Because I'm trying to break through a plateau right now. All right. So enough about that one. What else? Okay, so, as we go through this building phase, you're going to have lots of self talk, you're going to have this internal narrative about how your body's changing. You might even say like, what happened, I did all this hard work to get my diet under control. And, you know, this flexible dieting approach I'm tracking, I'm strength training really hard. Maybe I even went through a fat loss phase. And that's leanness, and definition where I wanted to be. And I feel like I'm throwing it all the way. This is where I think some combination of self care and coping with the mental aspects of this is going to be important. And so what does that mean? So first of all, we want to have realistic goals, right? That's one thing that comes to mind is assuming we're going at a reasonable rate of gain. And we know that we're following an effective program, and we're lifting more and more each session. Okay, those goals are the ones that we want to go after, not the a year from now I'm going to be leaner, because that's too vague, and it's too far away. So I would rather you focus on performance, performance, performance, and not aesthetics. Even though my comment earlier was that there is a way to embrace your fluffier aesthetics, especially when you have a shirt on and you just look bigger and stronger. Now, I know this is different between men and women. But But ladies, you know, when you've got those bigger thighs, because you're building all that muscle, you know, that's, that's something you can embrace. Or maybe it's the back, right, like, whatever it is for you. Okay, for me, it's like, you know, having kind of broader shoulders, bigger biceps, kind of a big strong back. Now, again, if I took my shirt off, I would feel more insecure, because I've gotten a little extra fluff. But then I'm like, so what? I'm big and strong, this is going to pay off later. However, that's a little piece of it. The rest of it is performance is this holistic view of wow, I am able to go to the gym every single session and get more out of my workouts each time over and over and over and over again. And if you're doing a building phase the right way. Okay, so just like when I my clients are, are focused, right? But they also have a plan and we're able to adapt and use that data that we're tracking to adjust each week, assuming you have that. And you know that if you're coming close to stalling on a lift, there's a A reason why it's either because you're not eating enough, sleeping enough, taking enough rest periods, whatever, you can quickly adjust and keep moving in a building phase, you quote unquote, should be able to constantly make progress. Now for a newer lifter, that might look like squatting three times a week and going up five pounds every time. But as you get more advanced, might look like your squat goes up once a week, or, you know, or twice a week, and then once a week, right? Or maybe you get an extra set in each week, and then you reset to a higher weight and get more set. Whatever it is, you get what I'm saying it's progressive overload, but you should be able to constantly progress. That is the sign you're getting stronger and building muscle. If that if that plateaus or regresses that is where you get concerned and look at what's happening. And adjust because that's really what we're going for. Right, the aesthetics and being fluffy and all that, frankly, it shouldn't matter at all right. But I didn't want to make a podcast episode that said, no, just don't worry about that.

Philip Pape 31:04

That's not how we are as humans. So instead of worrying about that, focus on this, and this is performance, in the more holistic view. Okay. The one thing I can't always address as, as much as maybe others can, I never really had, I never really had an experience with I'll say, disordered eating, like an eating disorder, or super poor body image, like some people face when they're younger, I never was happy with my physique, I always thought I was either either a little bit, a little bit fat, or a little bit skinny fat. And I simply accepted that, like, I would never be able to change that. And so I guess it in its own sense, that is a form of poor body image. It's like, it's, it's accepting fate. And just moving on, which, for anyone knows me, I'm very positive person like I, I like to reframe things I like to think of, well, it could be worse, right? It could be worse. And so that's kind of, it gives me a sense of resilience of mental resilience that has helped me cope over the years with these things. Whereas others might have more anxiety, disorders, depression, things like that, as a response to these things, right. I'm also a male, not a female. So there's certain issues that I never had to face being a male. And I also did lots of diets over the years. So you could argue that I'm right now in the midst of making this podcast, doing some form of rationalization or denial, and in reality, every time I would go on a diet and restrict, it was me responding to some insecurity I had about my body, right? I'll accept that for sure. If I'm just to, you know, kind of open up my, my mindset to my past here and try to be more reflective of it. So if you can do the same, and kind of tap into your experience with past disordered eating patterns, or body image, and how those resurface, right, as you try to gain weight, and what kind of reframing and mental shift we want to have, toward the positives of why we're doing this, which is different than why you gained weight in the past. It's two different things. Right? In the past, you gained weight, unwillingly, you know, unwittingly, or unintentionally, probably from overconsumption, probably didn't have nearly enough protein that you needed, and probably weren't strength training effectively, you were gaining a lot of fat. Well, now the mental shift here is we are gaining a lot of muscle. Oh, by the way, there's a little fat that comes along for right now we're going to cut off later. So we're going to shift it that way. It's, it's a little bit different, isn't it? Right. And also, the fact that we can't live with the societal physique ideals that are out there are, first of all false, like I mentioned before, right, where you equate a six pack abs, you know, with your worth, which it doesn't even exist for 99.99% of people. And instead, focus on the functional strength goal. Now, if you see somebody online, who's similar to you, who's power lifter, or they lift weights, and they're deadlifting, way more than you, it's your body weight, and you're a little bit jealous of that and want to get there, take that driving energy, like I'm not going to criticize you for that, right? Because I think I think funk I think strength and performance is a great thing to go after. Just make sure that it's realistically within your grasp for this building phase. So if you currently deadlift 185, and you're in a six month building phase, your targets probably not going to be 475. But it's going to be some reasonable level, assuming you know, X number of pounds per session or week jump over six months. And you know, a little bit of conservatism built in in there for your life. And you say, Okay, this is a goal, I'm gonna go. I'm at 185. Now my goal is going to be 305 for example, I think those are great goals to have, and ideals to have when you're trying to build muscle. So, what else comes to mind? By the way, reach out to me on Instagram, if you find this, if you find this episode helpful to you, it's very unscripted as you can tell. And I'm almost like cringing in my own skin right now with the lack of detailed notes I have and doing this, but maybe you appreciate where I'm coming from. Right? What I have found is that when you've done it, the first time you do this is the hardest. The second time is still hard, but a little bit less so. And then it should get easier from there. Now, you may have a different experience, this is what I found. I do have a client I can think of in particular who went through a building phase, and then a fat loss phase, she got leaner than she's ever been. And was kind of on the fence about like wanting to lose more versus gain more and was worried about gaining that extra weight back. And we got to a point after mapping out like what are the micro goals for her lifts? Exactly what programming is going to be best for her because she was kind of program hopping for a very short while they're trying to hit other goals that weren't necessarily string focused. So what is the exact program that's going to get you there in the next six months? How can we go at a rate of gain where the end weight on the scale doesn't really sound scary, but it's big enough to push you to gain muscle? Right. And once you have all that in place, once you have a plan and goals and numbers to go after and objective measures, and you're tracking your data and all that, it really does take a lot of that stress off, right. And so there's there's an element of patience, there's elements of no element of knowing yourself, and knowing yourself better. And by that, I mean, once you've gone through it, you will know yourself better, you'll know what works and what doesn't. And what's the worst that's going to happen, the worst that's going to happen is you're going to gain a little bit extra fat than you want it. And you're going to take an extra week or two in the fat loss phase to get it up. Think about that. If you know how to build muscle and you know how to lose fat. What's, what's the big deal of this whole thing anyway, if I'm if I am going to give you a flippant response that sums it all up is what does it matter anyway, you know, you know it's gonna happen now you may not have the confidence because you haven't gone through this before. And I get that. And that's, that's a lot of the people I'm speaking to is if you've never gone through before, you're just not sure. And you're scared. I get it. And that's why I'm that's why I'm putting together this episode just to say that I go, I have the same fear. Like as I sit here, you know, I can grab my belly fat, and I'm like, Okay, I still I'm trying to gain about five more pounds during this building phase. And then I'm gonna do fat last week. But you know what, I've gone through a fat loss phase like three or four times before, and I know it works. And because I know it works. I don't have to be scared about where I am now. Alright, so I'm not sure I covered all the possible things that are in your mind about this topic. And if I didn't, again, I want you to reach out to me on IG at Wits & Weights, where you can email me Philip with one L at wits & weights.com. For a conversation like CRC just say, Hey, I listened to your episode. What about this, like you didn't cover this, let me know, hopefully, I covered most of the big issues. I think that embracing the power belly, or the power hips, or whatever it is, is a positive way to contribute to your strength, your health, your well being because muscle is medicine muscle is primary muscle is the thing that is going to help you live longer, be stronger, eat more food, make fat loss easier, have even more food freedom, right be able to be there for your grandkids, your great grandkids be deadlifting until you're 95 muscle is super powerful. And if that can overwhelm any self doubts about a little bit of fat gain, then embrace it. If you're struggling with similar issues, as I've talked about today, if you're struggling with what it feels like to gain a little bit, a little bit of fat along for the ride, focus on the long term progress over the short term, look in aesthetics. But you can do it by focusing on short term performance focused goals, I can override those doubts about your appearance. So I hope that all makes sense. It wasn't too rambley. And again, if you you know, if you enjoy the episode of the story resonated with you in any way, if you want to chat about your experience your fears, goals, or strategy. If you have a question, you can always send me a message on Instagram at Wits & Weights, or an email Philip at wits & weights.com. Actually, I also have an ability for you to send me a voicemail, which would be really awesome. I don't get a lot of those. I don't know if if folks are afraid to use that or what? Because I get a lot of questions via text, you know, written questions, but you can go to the link in my show notes. I think it's the very last link at the bottom to leave an audio message and I will play that message on the show and answer the question for you. Or even if it's just, you know, not a message without a question. I'll play it on the show. I always love to hear from listeners, even if you just want to say hello. And as I said before, today's episode was a little more than scripted. So that's that's it. That's it for today. As always, stay strong. And I'll talk to you next time here on the Wits. & Weights podcast Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights if you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights, please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong.

Philip Pape 1/23/24 Philip Pape 1/23/24

Ep 140: The Freedom of No More Cheat Meals

Are you tired of the guilt and restriction of so-called cheat meals? What if you could eat what you want and still be healthy? Philip challenges the cheat meal mentality and helps you reframe the language around it. He talks about exploring a more balanced and sustainable approach to eating to help you say goodbye to food guilt and cheat meals and hello to a healthier emotional relationship with food.

Are you tired of the guilt and restriction of so-called cheat meals? What if you could eat what you want and still be healthy?

Today, Philip (@witsandweights) challenges the cheat meal mentality and helps you reframe the language around it. He talks about exploring a more balanced and sustainable approach to eating to help you say goodbye to food guilt and cheat meals and hello to a healthier emotional relationship with food.

Today, you’ll learn all about:

0:00 Intro
4:26 What is a cheat meal
7:53 Cheat meal as a reward
9:21 Increased cravings and binge eating
13:31 Flexible dieting
16:21 Manageable calorie restriction
17:45 Consistent tracking
24:23 Outro

Episode summary:

The episode challenges the traditional notion of cheat meals and the detrimental binary classification of food as 'good' or 'bad.' This podcast stands out as a guiding light for those looking to embrace a healthier, more balanced approach to nutrition, marking a pivotal shift in how we perceive dieting.

The concept of cheat meals has been deeply ingrained in diet culture, often leading to a cycle of restriction, guilt, and overindulgence. Philip argues for the adoption of flexible dieting—a methodology that empowers individuals to incorporate a variety of foods into their diet in a controlled manner. By doing so, the guilt associated with cheat meals dissipates, and the emphasis shifts towards sustainable eating habits that can be maintained long-term.

The conversation touches on the negative emotional relationships that can develop from rigid dieting practices. The 'all or nothing' mentality is dissected, revealing how it can undermine mental well-being and lead to unhealthy patterns such as binge eating. Instead, listeners are encouraged to view food through a lens of nourishment and enjoyment, breaking free from the constraints of traditional dieting paradigms.

The podcast episode doesn't just stop at critiquing the pitfalls of the cheat meal mentality; it also provides practical strategies for maintaining a calorie deficit without feeling deprived. Listeners are guided on how to manage diet fatigue through smart nutritional choices, like setting realistic macro targets and indulging in controlled 'refeeds'—planned increases in calorie intake that do not derail dietary success. This strategic approach allows for flexibility while keeping long-term health goals in sight.

Furthermore, the episode challenges the unhealthy glorification of overindulgent foods by social media influencers, advocating for a more nuanced understanding of what a balanced diet looks like. Philip emphasizes that a flexible diet isn't about strict avoidance but about how different foods can fit within one's nutritional goals. Consistent tracking, understanding one's body needs, and aligning diet with lifestyle are all crucial components of a sustainable diet, which the episode articulates with clarity.

In conclusion, the podcast presents a compelling argument for a diet free from the shackles of the cheat meal mindset. It paints a picture of a nutritional journey that is adaptable, stress-free, and in harmony with one's health and well-being. For anyone seeking to transform their relationship with food and achieve lasting dietary success, this episode is an essential listen.

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Transcript

Philip Pape 00:00

Are you tired of the guilt and restriction that comes with so called cheat meals? Today, we are challenging the cheat meal mentality and exploring a more balanced, sustainable approach to eating and a reframe of our language. Say goodbye to food, guilt and cheat meals and hello to a healthier emotional relationship with food in today's episode Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in. Wits & Weights

Philip Pape 00:49

community Welcome to another solo episode of the Wits & Weights podcast in our last episode 139 Female strength resistance training hormones and muscle growth with Lauren Kilonzo simple, we dived into the latest research and strategies on female specific topics, including the menstrual cycle and strength training, satellite cells and muscle growth, low energy availability machines versus free weights and functional training plus bonus content on how to get started lifting with machine weights available only to our insiders email list. Just go to wits & weights.com/bonus. If you haven't yet, join that list, it's totally free, or click the link in the shownotes. Again, that's wits & weights.com/bonus to join the insider email list. Today for episode 140. The freedom of no more cheat meals we are tackling what is a pet peeve of mine, and that is cheat meals, both the concept itself and also the term. I think this term is used often and not always in the right context and sometimes in the right context. And we're going to explore both of those. We'll explore why moving away from the cheat meal mentality can be so beneficial for your physical and mental health and wellbeing, and how this ties into a flexible sustainable approach to dieting, like we talked about on the show. Now before we dive into the topic, I wanted to mention an awesome new feature that I just implemented on my website called the podcast finder. Right now we're at 140 episodes and counting. And I know it can be hard to find the exact episodes that you want to listen to. on a specific topic, we have new listeners joining all the time. As much as they want to binge all those episodes, there are a lot and cover a lot of different topics. And since those episodes, including the show notes, and the full transcripts are on my website, I decided to add a Google powered search feature. So you can quickly find what you're looking for. All you have to do is go to wits & weights.com/podcast, and then scroll down to the podcast finder. That's wits & weights.com/podcast for the podcast finder, or click the link in the show notes for the podcast finder. And then you can find any topic you want across all those episodes. Now we talked about cheat meals. And we talked about sustainable approach to dieting. Now when I say dieting, I understand that I mean a few things. I mean, either your diet, which is simply the food that you eat, or dieting, as in being in a calorie deficit with the intent of losing fat while holding on to muscle. Either way, it's still a form of restriction. Now, that restriction in the sense that you want to make smart balance choices about what goes into your mouth, to maintain that calorie deficit, not to mention all the non food decisions like your training, step count, or hydration, supplements and so on. All of these can have an impact on your mindset, and your psychology that ties into this idea of cheat meals. So I'm laying the foundation, the fact that we need to be in a calorie deficit, to lose fat. And that that calorie deficit is a form of restriction. And that sometimes we need relief from that restriction, or fatigue, right diet fatigue is sometimes called. And this leads to the concept of cheat meals for many. Now, I don't use cheat meals, I don't use the term cheat meals, and my clients don't use or need cheat meals to be successful ever. And that is what today's episode is all about and why I'm calling it the freedom of no more cheat meals. So first, I want to dive into what they are. What is a cheat meal? How does it impact our mindset? I saw real recently that said, you know, stop hating on cheap meals, you know, you've got to use them learn in our diet. It's just a refeed. But I think there's something insidious about the term itself that can be destructive. And again, if you're the five 10% of people who just use it kind of in a different way, and it doesn't have that meaning to you. Great. All right. I'm not who I am this you're not the person I'm speaking to. I am defining cheat meals today. As a meal that deviates from your nutrition plan, that is typically high in indulgence foods, which usually means more, you know, carbs, fats, sodium, sometimes sugar. And they're often seen as a way to indulge in foods that you crave, while otherwise adhering to a quote unquote, clean diet that is absent of those foods. Very important definition the way I defined it, that means most of the time you're eating in a way that is quite restrictive. And then you save up for this cheat meal, not save up, but mentally you're waiting. And the cheat meal comes in how you eat whatever you want. And it's all the things you could quote unquote, couldn't eat the rest of the time. Okay, this is the problem. The problem is with labeling foods, as binary as good or bad. And the word cheat is exactly doing that. Because when you cheat, it means you are doing something bad that deviates from something good, right? Just think of any other context of cheating. And you can't help but agree with what I'm saying. All right, now, there's a difference between cheat meals, and refeeds refeeds refeeds are controlled, pre planned increases in calories. As part of your overall calorie intake. That's all they are usually in the form of increasing carbs. You can do it for calorie cycling for psychological relief. But it's not the same as saying I'm going to cut and restrict certain foods, and then I'm going to indulge and binge on those foods for my cheat meal. Very different concepts. Both Yes, are intended to provide psychological relief. But refeeds they're usually at least a full day or multiple days in a row. And they are just a scaled up version of an otherwise normal day, usually by increasing carbs. But not necessarily by gorging on indulgences, or cravings that you've restricted on other days, mainly because you're not restricting those on a sustainable diet. So if you're doing this sustainably, you are incorporating indulgences regularly. Anyway, there's no need to quote unquote, cheat, but you may increase calories in a strategic way, for a refeed to different things. So when we when we label foods is good or bad, we're setting ourselves up for a negative relationship with eating right this is when people say I have an emotional eating problem or a negative emotional relationship with food. That's what they're talking about. This is a black and white thinking it's an on off switch. It's feelings of guilt and failure when you choose the food that is that is off limits, right that you're not allowed to have that is, quote unquote, bad. And this is completely counterproductive. It stranger moral conscience is the term that I think that was what Alexander Alan Aragon used in his book, flexible dieting. Because you are bad if you choose a bad food, right, and now you're putting a label on yourself. The other way that cheat meals are used is as a reward, right? It's a reward for like sticking to your diet or sticking to your training or exercise. And this is something called operant, conditioning conditioning, or misapplication thereof, because instead of getting the proper reward for your training, which is I'm stronger, I'm building muscle, I'm performing better, you're actually rewarding that action with something not related. And in fact, that not only not related, right, with a cheat meal, but as an opposition to the goal of your fitness program, which is, you know, to be consistent, to be strong to perform to improve to be an athlete to train all those things well, cheating, and indulging in whatever is and using that as a reward for fitness is perverse. You know, it's a perverse incentive, if you will. So just keep that in mind. Now, research has shown that cheat meals can lead to binge eating to excessive calorie consumption to guilt, shame, negative impacts on future food choices, to cancelling out your calorie deficit, right? Okay, I'm gonna have a cheat meal. I've been quote unquote good all week, and I'm gonna reward myself and all of a sudden you just wipe out the calorie deficit, because it's not a plan in strategic thing like we do with, for example, refeeds and calorie cycling in a sustainable diet. Research shows that cheap meals can increase cravings and make sticking to a diet more difficult because now, all those days when you're trying to quote unquote, stick to this very monk, like, austere, you know, eating pattern, you're just thinking about that cheat meal and your cravings go up. It's it's counterproductive for the very thing that it's supposed to help with, which is the psychological relief. So by strictly avoiding certain foods, you're now going to have stress related over eating. Anytime you get stressed, you're going to go hog wild, you're going to not be able to control yourself, right? And you're going to experience more psychological Stress and become more prone to binge eating. Now, does this sound familiar? Does this sound familiar we, we haven't really gotten into that much discussion on the show about all of those negative emotional impacts of rigid dieting, but it's there.

Philip Pape 10:14

It might seem that cheat meals provide psychological benefits similar to refeeds, because they give you a break from strict dieting and thus prevent binge eating. But the irony is they actually trigger binge eating episodes, because they are paired with absolute restriction of the foods in question outside of the cheat meal window. So I'm saying this in multiple ways to get it into your head, something that I didn't get for many, many years, it didn't understand this, I thought cheat meals were a way to make it sustainable, but it actually does the opposite. The use of cheat meals implies by definition, just think of the word cheat. It implies by definition that you're otherwise continuously dieting with a rigid level of restriction, or you've got food rules. And now you're cheating on those rules. Just like when you cheat on a game, or you cheat on a person, right, you're breaking the rules. And that is not sustainable. Whereas a flexible diet, we always talk about where you incorporate indulgences, you incorporate cravings, as part of the diet itself. Diet, okay. And by incorporate, I don't mean in an excessive amount, and you're always eating quote, unquote, cheat meal type meals, oh, you're including a little here a little there, you're planning it, and you're planning for the calories and macros, and therefore, you don't feel restricted. Right? Then you can combine those with other forms of psychological relief, like controlled refeeds. And these are going to be much more effective long term. Hey, this is Philip. And I hope you're enjoying this episode of Wits & Weights, I started Wits, & Weights to help people who want to build muscle lose fat and actually look like they lift. I've noticed that when people improve their strength and physique, they not only look and feel better, they transform other areas of their life, their health, their mental resilience and their confidence in everything they do. And since you're listening to this podcast, I assume you want the same things the same success, whether you recently started lifting, or you've been at this for a while and want to optimize and reach a new level of success. Either way, my one on one coaching focused on engineering your physique, and body composition is for you. If you want expert guidance and want to get results faster, easier, and with fewer frustrations along the way to actually look like you lift, go to wits & weights.com, and click on coaching, or use the link in my show notes to apply today. I'll ask you a few short questions to decide if we're a good fit. And if we are, we'll get you started this week. Now back to the show.

Philip Pape 12:43

So this concept of cheat meals, it's clear that it's widespread, right. And it's all over social media. And then it even gets skewed even more in a negative direction when influencers glorify the eating of over indulgent foods, as if that itself is healthy in some way. And then it normalizes it even encourages these unhealthy eating behaviors. It's just all wrong. It's all wrong. And we don't need that you don't need cheat meals, you don't need the term cheat meals. We don't need to glorify processed foods, you know, and say that, look, a healthy diet can just have unlimited processed foods, if you can use cheat meals. It's just wrong. So that's my opinion. But I think it's also supported by the evidence. And I wanted to lay out the case, before we get into what do we do instead? Right? So what do we do instead? Well, when we talk about flexible dieting, and those who follow this podcast know what this is, but it's always good to have a refresher. We're talking about balance, focusing on macronutrients and objective measures and outcomes and things that serve you and your goals, right? The micronutrients, the macronutrients, the energy balance, instead of off limit foods, right? It's not about whether you eat this or that. It's a sustainable approach where you have variety, and you have moderation, and you can stick to the long term. Now, I don't want balance and moderation to be confused with things like the food pyramid pyramid, or the government plate idea, or, you know, just just eat in moderation, quote, unquote, and these platitudes and these generic concepts because that's not the same as having something that is in balance for your goals. A good example of that is protein. Right? In my episode where I did about the dangers of low protein for longevity, I talked about how most people have like 10% in their diet is protein, and it really should end up being around 25 to 35 40% of your diet, if you have enough for muscle building muscle preservation, optimal health, but people see that as a high level of protein as opposed to just a balance level protein. So even the definition of balance can be skewed depending on your context. And the point here is it's not about eliminating foods, but understanding how different foods it into your nutritional goals, right. So we are going to have, for example, realistic macro targets, we are going to have realistic rate of loss when we're in a fat loss phase, we're going to have realistic calorie and carb cycling, if that's something you need for you, I just did a client check in today, a longtime client who typically has evenly distribute evenly distributed calories. And she had gone through my Rapid Fat Loss experiment a while back, just to try it out. And she liked the idea of having refeed days how you on days that are fairly routine during your week, where you can eat, you know, leftovers, and you've meal prep and meal planned. If you're in a fat loss phase, it's pretty easy to go with a lower level of calories on those days, and and sort of bank or save, quote unquote, those calories for the higher days. Now, again, we're not talking cheat meals, we're talking, reducing the calories and you're on your weekdays by let's say a couple 100 calories a day, which is not that meaningful to shift those calories and cycle them over to either your training days or the night before morning session, or to your weekends for your lifestyle, whatever makes sense from a psychological and a preference perspective, so that you can be sustainable with your diet. Again, that is totally different from cheat meals where anything goes where you've restricted, and now you're allowing any allowing things in having said that, when you're in a fat loss phase, you're still restricting something and that is the calories you are you are restricting the calories. But we try to make that restriction as manageable and least negative on you and your mind as possible. We do it. We do it through multiple ways we do it by, you know, going at a proper rate of loss. We're doing it by including high satiety and volume foods. We do it by making sure you do have indulgences planned in regularly, so that you never crave or binge or overeat or need a cheat meal, we do it by increasing your expenditure and your activity level as it makes sense. But not too much where you get too much stress. We do it by sleeping more, we do it by potentially reducing alcohol, all of those things to make it more sustainable, even during fat loss. But we never say you can't eat this, or you can't eat that to the point where you're going to now crave it so much that you get off the diet. By the way, this is probably the number one reason people jump off of their diet, they do crash diets, they go lose a lot of weight quickly. And all of a sudden they crave sugar, fats, carbs, sodium, and they just start eating everything in sight, or at least a lot of the things that they had cut out to get to that point, because they're like, I can't do this for the rest of my life, and compounded by muscle loss and all the other things that people do when they're not training that causes them to eat even more, and you get the idea. Okay. So another thing that we want to do is we want to have consistent tracking, right, if you regularly track your intake of calories, or macros, you track your food, you're tracking macros, in something like macro factor, which I can never shut up about, because it's such a great tool for the job. If you download macro factor, you use my code Wits & Weights regularly tracking your intake gives you awareness to understand your body's needs. Without feeling restricted. This gives you the ability to make informed choices. And you don't have to then have a set of rules that you would then be to cheat from makes sense, like cheating is only because you have restrictive rules that you're trying to get away from for a day or for a meal. We don't need to do that. Because you're tracking you know how much protein you eat, you know how much you know, fiber you're getting, you know, that on Saturday, I'm gonna have more calories, and I'm gonna plan in that cheesecake, or that pizza on a planet in, I'm gonna go I'm gonna do us a little bit of time restricted feeding to make it work, right, whatever way is sustainable for you. So consistency, flexible mindset, constantly reviewing what you're doing and gaining getting biofeedback, assessing your progress, making adjustments, ensuring that your diet aligns with your evolving goals and lifestyle, it's not fixed, that's the other thing. The next three weeks might be the same. And then week four, all of a sudden you go on a trip, or you change jobs, or, you know, the days get longer. And now you're going for more walks, any little change like that you change your training program, we'll all be back to your diet. And if you had rigid rules in place, it'd be very hard to adapt to that and it would feel even more stressful. But because we're using a flexible approach, it's adaptable, right? You can still be consistent. You're never trying to be perfect. You're trying to get it right 80% of the time, you can include a variety of foods in your diet with this approach. Okay, you can swap and substitute things it doesn't mean that you okay, if you love ice cream, like I do, put ice cream in there. However, you can always make a substitution and say, You know what, I'm gonna do a protein rich smoothie that's made like an ice cream, you know, and it's cold and put in the freezer and everything and it tastes like ice cream to me, but it also serves my goals and it doesn't kind of take up too much in terms of calories and other things. I don't feel restricted either, because it satisfied my craving for ice cream. So I'm not saying you can't do those smart swaps and substitutes, right? Cauliflower rice versus white rice, spices and herbs versus sauces. You know, you have a sweet tooth, you go for some grapes or banana instead of candy. Right? One of my client's his wife is a Keto. She's on the keto diet. And you know, I say I say stuff about keto, and all the other restrictive diets all the time. But what I what I like is, he takes advantage of the fact his wife is on keto, when he's in a fat loss phase, to use some of the amazing products that food science has given us for the keto diet, such as very low calorie bread. Okay, so there's this bread it's made with. It's made with wheat protein and wheat starch. And so they're able to give it like the thick squishy binding Enos of bread, like white bread, or wheat bread, but with less than half the calories. So it's like 45 calories, a slice instead of 110 calories a slice. And it still tastes like bread. So he's able to have a sandwich, not able to, but he has a sandwich with two slices of bread, and it doesn't hit his hard macros as much. That's smart. Like that's just a smart substitute so that he can still have something that tastes like bread feels like bread, it's pretty much bread, just food science has done wonders to make it less of an impact calorie wise. And that's cool. Like there's nothing wrong with that. That's smart. So anyway, I think you get the idea that having something adaptable and flexible, tracking, adjusting for your goals, week to week, takes the stress out, takes the guesswork out, and doesn't require cheat me. Right. As we wrap up. This isn't a super long episode. But as we wrap up, I hope that you have a kind of new and upgraded mental picture of how a flexible approach to dieting, free from the cheat meal mindset leads to sustainable and enjoyable mindset for nutrition, right? Making peace with embracing a lifestyle, that is something you can do forever for the rest of your life that is aligned with your health and well being does a cheat meal sound like it's something aligned with the health and well being to me a cheat meal is like going to the bar and having 10 drinks, right? It is not aligned with your health and well being. Maybe it's something you feel you have to do once or twice. But it's it's off. Does that make sense? So like me, you're a cheater. But if you're having a cheat meal, you're a cheater? How does that how does that resonate with you, when you are incorporating the things you like, anyway, on a regular basis to where it is not good or bad on or off, then you're not a cheater, in any sense of the word, you're your winner about that you're a winner. So we can reframe that. The idea of cheat meals being something we don't want to have to do, like if we feel that we need or have to have a cheat meal, something else, something else has an opportunity to be improved, then I think that's a more positive and more sustainable approach to nutrition. All right, if you're feeling overwhelmed by this, right by this concept that of cheat meals or but also by emotional eating, if you feel like you don't quite have the control that you want over your diet over your results. Don't just listen to this podcast and move on. Right I want you to reach out to me for a call. I do free calls all the time. I don't sell I don't Pitch Anything. All we do is we sit down, I asked you a few questions, we map out your nutrition strategy, we get you a roadmap for setting up your macros, getting enough protein, including indulgences as part of your plan, handling your social life with confidence, getting real results without feeling restricted, and with absolutely no need whatsoever anymore for the rest of your life, or cheat meals. So if you want to find out more, I invite you to use the link in my show notes to book a 30 minute results breakthrough session. And there we'll get to know your specific goals. And you'll leave the call with the best I'll say two or three next action steps for your nutrition strategy. No pitching no sales like I said before, just you and me having a conversation. Okay, in our next episode 141 Why I'm getting fluffy before I get jacked. I will be discussing the emotions that you might feel about your body when gaining weight to build muscle and getting a little fluffy along the way. I'm going unscripted to share my personal journey regarding body image and strategies to help you navigate these challenges yourself. As always, stay strong. And I'll talk to you next time here on the Wits & Weights podcast.

Philip Pape 24:39

Philip Pape 1/19/24 Philip Pape 1/19/24

Ep 139: Female Strength, Resistance Training, Hormones, & Muscle Growth with Lauren Colenso-Semple

Do female athletes require an entirely different training approach? What hidden factors influence strength and muscle growth in women? Does your menstrual cycle impact your training approach? Today, Philip interviews Lauren Colenso-Semple, a researcher in exercise physiology and endocrinology who focuses on female sex hormones, resistance exercise training, and mechanisms of muscle growth. They discuss some of the topics relevant to female athletes, such as the menstrual cycle and strength training, satellite cells and muscle growth, low energy availability, machines vs. free weights, and functional training.

Do female athletes require an entirely different training approach? What hidden factors influence strength and muscle growth in women? Does your menstrual cycle impact your training approach?

Find out the surprising truth in today's episode!

Join our free insiders list to receive an EXCLUSIVE 10-minute bonus interview with Lauren on how to start training with machine weights, cables, and eventually free weights if you are new to lifting or intimidated by the gym!

Today, Philip (@witsandweights) interviews Lauren Colenso-Semple, a researcher in exercise physiology and endocrinology who focuses on female sex hormones, resistance exercise training, and mechanisms of muscle growth. Lauren is also an expert fitness professional with years of practical experience and certifications in strength & conditioning, sports nutrition, and personal training. Lauren has published many articles and writes for the MASS research review, and in this conversation, they discuss some of the topics relevant to female athletes, such as the menstrual cycle and strength training, satellite cells and muscle growth, low energy availability, machines vs. free weights, and functional training.

Episode summary:

As we delve into the intricate world of women's strength training, it becomes evident that a one-size-fits-all approach falls short in addressing the unique physiological considerations for female athletes. Lauren uncovers the myths surrounding testosterone's role in muscle development and emphasize the importance of a tailored, evidence-based approach to training.

In the realm of athletics, energy availability stands as a cornerstone for peak performance. It's a critical balance that, if tipped, can lead to detrimental effects on muscle protein synthesis and overall health. For the competitive athlete, understanding the implications of energy deficits is paramount. As we discuss strategies to mitigate the adverse effects of low energy states, we underscore the necessity of a post-competition recovery diet and the potential of 'lean gains,' bringing to light the importance of a slight calorie surplus to stimulate metabolism without unwanted weight gain.

Strength training, a pivotal aspect of athletic development, often sparks debate on the efficacy of machines versus free weights. While both can effectively increase strength and muscle growth, they each bring unique benefits to the table. Machines offer safety and ease of use for beginners, while free weights challenge coordination and engage stabilizing muscles. The key lies in personalizing the training regimen, allowing for variation and specificity according to one's fitness goals and sports requirements.

Furthermore, the concept of functional training garners attention, as it pertains to the application of strength in daily activities and sports. We demystify the notion that functional training is a gender-specific requirement, reinforcing that strength is inherently functional, regardless of sex. Despite starting at different baselines, men and women can achieve similar relative gains from resistance training, demonstrating the universality of strength's functional role.

We also provide a platform for ongoing discussion and learning through the Mass Research Review community, YouTube Live sessions, and Instagram updates. The aim is to cultivate a continuous exchange of knowledge and support for athletes and fitness enthusiasts in their quest for physical excellence and understanding.

In closing, this podcast episode transcends the conventional narrative, offering a nuanced perspective on women's athletic performance that is grounded in scientific inquiry and practical coaching wisdom.

Today, you’ll learn all about:

0:00 Intro
1:59 Purpose of the questions Lauren is asking
3:26 The future of understanding female physiology and training
5:29 Female-specific performance and training assumptions
9:27 Menstrual cycle influence on training or the lack thereof
14:35 The role of satellite cells in muscle adaptation in training
21:32 MPS reduction during low energy phases in trained women
30:35 Comparing the effectiveness of machine-based training with free weights
39:45 The usefulness and definition of functional training in fitness
44:46 One question Lauren wished Philip had asked
47:09 Where to learn more about Lauren and her work
47:30 Outro

Episode Resources:

Join our free insiders list to receive an EXCLUSIVE 10-minute bonus interview with Lauren on how to start training with machine weights, cables, and eventually free weights if you are new to lifting or intimidated by the gym!
MASS Research Review
YouTube (MASS Office Hours)
Instagram: @laurencs1

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Transcript

Lauren Colenso-Semple 00:00

Having muscle and being strong is functional. So whatever you can do to promote hypertrophy and strength gain makes you a more functional human being. You don't need to be doing anything fancy.

Philip Pape 00:15

Lauren Colenso-Semple 01:38

Thank you so much for having me.

Philip Pape 01:39

So I've heard you talk about how far behind the research is into female specific factors related to training and performance, you know, other episodes, even women's health in general. And I think you're one of the pioneers, the you know, the modern pioneers in this field. Whether you see yourself as that or not, but you're kind of pushing that boundary forward? What is your driving passion behind this? What's your what's your big purpose for asking the research questions that you're asking?

Lauren Colenso-Semple 02:05

I think it started from a sort of selfish interest in wanting to know what was the best thing to do for my training. And when I was working full time in fitness than it was what's the best way to approach programming for my own clients. And as I became more and more involved in the science, then it kind of evolved into the passion of really trying to understand the deeper molecular mechanisms of what and why. So some of which are not actually practical or actionable, at least, you know, as of now, but I'm really driven by both pursuits, one, meaning how should we train? And how should we train our clients? How do we be evidence based coaches? And you know, what's really going on here from a scientific mechanistic perspective, I

Philip Pape 03:02

could definitely relate to that. I love that it's it started with a passion of your own personal development and growth, and then helping people and then hey, how does soul work? And like you pointed out, there are some things where maybe we've gone down the rabbit hole of study, and maybe there's not a practical application yet, or like we're gonna find out today, associations we thought might exist, that maybe they're not as strong as we thought or don't exist at all, for most people. Where do you think the field stands today compared to like, 10 years ago? And then, you know, is there something we need to catch up on when it comes to understanding of a female physiology and training as we move forward? Yeah,

Lauren Colenso-Semple 03:39

I think I'm also really driven by just the ongoing pursuit of just the intellectual curiosity that's associated with being a scientist. And that's something that I think is really important to highlight, because what we might think we know today will continue to evolve based on additional data, or as we figure out better ways of measuring certain things, or we get access to larger samples or populations that are, you know, less trained, or more trained or younger or older. So I think we've come a long way, in even since I first became aware of the exercise science literature, in the sense that people are focusing more on the fact that we do need to study women, we can't just assume that all the studies that are done in young healthy men are going to apply to young healthy women, and certainly older women as well. So I think we're on the right track, but there's still a lot more work to be done. And I hope to make a contribution to that progression.

Philip Pape 04:49

Yeah, I think I think you are honestly by just the way you communicate and how often you communicate and be willing to come on shows like this. I think you even wrote a paper in one of the Earlier mass issues about, I think it was about male coaches not understanding female physiology or something and, and I take that to heart being a male and wanting to help my clients too. So we're all in this together wanting to like know as much as we can to help. I thought it'd be fun today we talked about before we recorded to go over some of your articles, and maybe some other topics you're interested in. And then I'll give you my best shot at summarizing my interpretation of what you wrote. But then I want to pick your brain on some of the deeper questions. So the first one was your systematic review in frontiers in sports and active living, called current evidence shows no influence of women's menstrual cycle phase on acute strength performance, or adaptations to resistance exercise training. So I think we just gave away the answer in the title. But there is a common assumption that women's fluctuating reproductive hormone levels across the cycle can influence training in some way. I think your review found limited, maybe inconsistent evidence to support that. And what I understand from your conclusions is that some studies have poor methodology. For example, not every woman has a 28 day cycle with ovulation on day 14, right. There's a lot of variability. And then some some may, but the ones that do don't seem to justify any recommendations to adjust training. So what do you think? First of all, what do you think the assumption that this is the case? Why has it persisted? Despite the evidence?

Lauren Colenso-Semple 06:26

I think we have really minimal evidence, it's at this point. And one of the reasons for that is this is really difficult to study, just from a logistical perspective. And I've I've learned that in the trenches trying to actually do this work. And whenever you're trying to, to time any kind of performance testing or exercise training with somebody's menstrual cycle, there's only so much you can plan for even if somebody does have a fairly regular cycle. If it's really important that you're testing in a particular window or on a particular day, then maybe you don't know until the day before, maybe it's a Saturday. So there's a lot of reasons why people either don't account for this or don't want to dive into this particular research question. That said, the the idea that sex hormones would influence adaptations to training, I think, probably comes from the idea that male sex hormones potentially influence adaptations to training. And for a very long time, there was the thought that your testosterone levels or the kind of post exercise bump in testosterone would influence you, and it was a driver of hypertrophy. And now over a long period of time and a lot of studies, we know that it's probably not the case. And as long as you're within a good normal physiological range, that your your propensity for strength adaptations, or muscle growth is fairly similar, or at least it's not tied to your testosterone levels. Or another way to say that is your testosterone levels are not predictive of your response, unless you are in a position of super physiological levels, meaning you're taking exogenous hormones. So we do have a fair amount of literature on the role of testosterone and you know, quote, unquote, anabolic hormones. But we don't have as much information on the female sex hormones. So I think it's a, it's a logical next step, if we're going to try to study more women. Well, hey, what are one of the major biological differences here? With between the sexes? Ovarian hormones are one of them. Right?

Philip Pape 08:59

Yeah. So a couple of things I got from what you said, first of all, it's just really hard, if not impossible to kind of track this stuff. And even if you're going to apply it into at an individual basis, you know, you may not catch it in time, right? It's what you said, or you'd have to have some more precise measure. I think you mentioned on another show how like, you know, men can't tell that their testosterone is high or low. So women can either with their hormones in general, other than certain symptoms that certain women have. And so speaking of the practical considerations, then, for women who do experience changes in their energy or motivation, or some other symptom, is there a practical advice that would help them or should they just not try to do that?

Lauren Colenso-Semple 09:43

Yeah, so I like to make a really clear distinction between adjusting training around menstrual symptoms which tend to occur either right before you start your cycle or during the first couple of days of your cycle, and typically lasts 24 to 48 hours. That, to me is one question versus cycle based training or cycle synched training or whatever the word that you'd like to use, that implies making pretty substantial changes to your program in the phase before ovulation and in the phase after ovulation. And as you mentioned, in the your kind of intro to this topic, the textbook cycle is 28 days, and ovulation happens sort of smack in the middle. So in that context, we'd be saying for these two weeks, you should do this. And for the next two weeks, you should do that. As you mentioned, that's really not the case for everybody. In fact, it's probably only the case for a small percentage of naturally cycling women. So but to bring it back to the menstrual symptoms, those are things like fatigue, or menstrual cramps, or bloating or changes in your motivation. And to the extent that those are affecting your training, I think it's perfectly reasonable to have a plan to adjust accordingly, whether that's skipping a workout completely, or adjusting the intensity, or maybe switching to a different exercise. I think having any sort of auto regulatory component is helpful. And I would say the same if you were up all night with your baby the night before, or, you know, if you were jet lagged, or you weren't feeling well. So I would approach that the same way that I would a lot of other real life scenarios because it's only one or two workouts. Yeah, that

Philip Pape 11:41

seems like the logical conclusion is it's like any biofeedback right? No matter what it is, it's a principle that you're talking about, of just being smart about going with your body and doing what works for you and not being fixed on on on some prescription. I mean, I think that honestly, we could I could ask you 10 More questions. But I think that covers the gist of that topic. To be honest. Is there anything else that comes up often related to this that the women are asking about that you wanted to address? Yeah,

Lauren Colenso-Semple 12:05

I'd say that the sort of ethos from this comes from the fact that you have one hormonal profile in one phase, and then another hormonal profile in another phase. And the assumption is that there would be an influence on either performance or adaptations exercise that are influenced by these unique hormonal profiles. But not only is the timing different between individuals, the hormone levels are dramatically different when you actually measure hormones, which in real life, we tend not to do, but in the lab, we do all the time. And so I've measured hormones in women throughout the cycle, surrounding ovulation, or both. And the the extent to which they fluctuate is highly, highly variable. So you might say, well, we might see online, because estrogen is high, or because progesterone is high, then, you know, insert whatever exercise recommendation or nutritional recommendation. But in reality, you see this huge variability in levels, whereas you might have a small spike in estrogen, but you don't have the huge spike that you would see in the diagram, if you kind of Google hormonal fluctuations across the cycle. So I think it's really important to, to understand that not only does cycle length and ovulation timing vary between individuals, the actual magnitude of the hormone fluctuations is highly variable as well.

Philip Pape 13:42

That's important. Yeah, it kind of reminds me of a lot of things where we tried to biohack our way to these precise it like with the glucose monitoring, or even even honestly, carb and calorie cycling where people do, they're trying to do more than they necessarily need, versus just being consistent kind of doing the average American system will work for you. So thank you for explaining to

Lauren Colenso-Semple 14:03

them. What works for somebody else is going to work for you. And in terms of your your macronutrient ratio, or your calorie intake, our you know, how did that person lose weight at that rate? And oh, can I do that too? Of course not. Because your maintenance calories are not the same as that person's maintenance calories.

Philip Pape 14:23

Exactly. Yeah, that's a key message. Yeah, we talked about that all the time is individualization personalization. It's a big thing. The next thing I wanted to talk about was satellite cells, the role of satellite cells, and I just don't know much about this topic, and I know, the conversation, maybe it's gonna surround the what's interesting about it, and what's practical about knowing that information. So I'm just gonna let you explain the role of satellite cells in adaptations and resistance training and where we go from there.

Lauren Colenso-Semple 14:50

Yeah, so when we think about how muscle hypertrophy occurs, they think about protein synthesis or the accretion of new Do proteins into the muscle that allows the muscle to expand or to grow. And as you first start training, that growth will happen fairly easily. But over time, you need more and more of the sort of machinery, if you will, in order to allow for that protein synthesis to occur. So satellite cells live kind of on the outside of the fiber, and they're not integral to growth, but they can donate their nuclei to assist in expanding the muscle fiber. So there's a little bit of a debate in whether they're necessary for hypertrophy, or they're only necessary for hypertrophy when you're in a developmental stage. So a lot of this work has been done in animal models. And when you study a younger rat, or mice or mouse versus an adult, rat or mouse, you see a little bit of a different response. So it does seem like the role of satellite cells in growth are important in an adolescent, but perhaps not so much in an adult, at least in the rodent models. But the other really important role of satellite cells is the response to muscle damage, which will occur, you know, to varying extents in response to exercise. But if you do a particularly damaging bout, like really high eccentric load exercise, where you do a really, really high volume workout, those are things that for you kind of do too much too quickly. If you're first starting out, and you're getting really, really sore, that is when we might be experiencing kind of high muscle damage post exercise. And that sense, the satellite cells will release other growth factors it to essentially assist with the remodeling and the repair. So perhaps they're not as essential for growth in adults, as they might be in a in a youth population. But they are very critical for remodeling and repair in response and muscle damage. And that can also be in the context of injury in a in a really extreme form, not just exercise. But one of the more interesting questions that is sort of yet to be fully elucidated in regards to satellite cells is it appears that we start to lose them when we age. And so one of the potential mechanisms for that, then is that, you know, they actually serve to maintain your muscle mass. And so as they decline with aging, then we see muscle mass decline as well. Okay,

Philip Pape 17:50

so is that why we I think we've seen a correlation between the increase in satellite cells per fiber and muscle fiber growth? Is that tied into what you're saying that? Is there a cause and effect, like the actual development and training of muscle mass contributes to more satellite cells? Or it's the opposite? That have, yeah, yeah,

Lauren Colenso-Semple 18:10

yeah. So with growth, for sure. And then you you actually, when you look at a really interesting study, people who are taking exogenous testosterone, even after they stopped taking it, they still have more satellite cells. So their potential rule and growth is, is the fact that they can donate their nuclei and then contribute to growth above and beyond what might be possible without them. So if you have more satellite cells, then you have the potential to expand that fiber above and beyond what might be the case. But as you lose them, then not only are you you don't have that potential backup for the high hypertrophic process. You also don't have that machinery available to deal with the repair on the regeneration that you need it from muscle damage.

Philip Pape 19:01

Okay, the transcriptional machinery, are you I'm looking at my notes, probably related to ribosomes and everything else I don't want to get into that. Does. So what's the practical takeaway, then, like, just train and you know, keep yourself strong and healthy? Or is there another takeaway of how to increase satellite cells? Yeah, there,

Lauren Colenso-Semple 19:19

there isn't much of a practical takeaway on this one. This is more of a kind of mechanistic question. But if I if I had to say something, it's really important to train, if you can, when you're younger, and you're in middle age, because when you start training, when you're much older, you still do experience muscle growth, but you're not set up from a hormonal perspective or from a satellite cell perspective to really accrue as much muscle growth as you might have when you were a bit younger. So if you can sort of put the money in the bank now if you will, by starting to training In your younger or middle age, then you will be in a better functional position later in life.

Philip Pape 20:06

Got it? So either get a time machine, right and go back if you if it's too late, or get started now and honestly, that's a great message for anyone, even if you are 65 Get started with strength training if you're not there yet, but it is.

Lauren Colenso-Semple 20:18

It's never too late to start and it's always beneficial. Yeah,

Philip Pape 20:22

no good stuff. Okay, cool. So that's, that's interesting. I always find these these fascinating because you wonder, okay, why why are we researching this, but then at some point, you get this link, that gives you an aha moment, right of maybe practically what to do. The next article I wanted to talk about was the high cost of low energy availability. This is a very, this is also a pretty hot topic, at least in the circle. I'm in here, we talk about it all the time, especially for female clients with the rampant you know, calorie restriction dieting overstress environment we have today. And the article you wrote reviews, a study that showed decrease in muscle protein synthesis and loss of fat free mass, after just 10 days of being in that state of and when we say low energy availability, we just mean decent calorie deficit. In this case, I think it was, I don't, I'm not gonna go through all the numbers, you can do that if you want. But you had them training, they were training and doing some cardio, and despite enough protein and training, because we always say like, you have to have that training stimulus have to have sufficient protein, the low energy availability state reduced both myofibrillar and sarcoplasmic protein synthesis rates and resulted in loss of fat free mass. So that tell us about that, why this is important for us to understand, and then how athletes can minimize, I don't want to say minimize those effects, because effects exist, but maybe minimize being in low energy availability state is probably the end goal here.

Lauren Colenso-Semple 21:46

Yeah. So really, they the effects that they observed in this paper, I think the major takeaway was that the effects are detrimental even in those really short term. And I would say that this is mostly an issue for competitive athletes because they have to be in a in a situation where their energy expenditure is incredibly high, because of all the physical activity they're doing. And they're also trying to be at a certain low weight, either for performance benefits, or for aesthetic physique benefits. And so that's the, if you think about a bikini competitor going on stage and competing, like multiple times per year, for example, or a really high level in endurance athlete, you know, long distance runner or cyclist, where being at a lower weight is advantageous for from a performance benefit. But also, the energy expenditure is just so high from from all the physical activity that you're doing.

Philip Pape 23:00

Hey, this is Philip. And I hope you're enjoying this guest interview on Wits & Weights. If you're finding it valuable, you can get a bonus conversation we recorded. If you're on our email list, just go to wits & weights.com/bonus, or click the link in the show notes. Insiders on our email list will get a link to the bonus conversation where my guests will give you the exact steps to take related to one of the topics in today's episode. Again, these conversations are only available, if you're on our free email list. To get the bonus exclusive content with today's guests, just go to wits & weights.com/bonus, or click the link in the show notes. Now back to the show.

Lauren Colenso-Semple 23:41

I think that what we see with when terms of the physiological disturbances really run the gamut from reproductive function, metabolic disturbance, increased risk of injury. So all signs point to this is not a great idea to be in this state for too long. So if you're somebody who has to be there for a competitive purpose, and there's no way around it, then we get it. But we want to recover from that as soon as possible. And what we don't know entirely is the best way to restore that or the from from a practical perspective. But the sooner that you can return to a state of homeostasis, then the better off you'll be because the detriment of being there for too long is pretty substantial. Okay,

Philip Pape 24:36

and just just so you know, I talked about macro factor all the time on this show, and reverse dieting versus recovery diet and the idea of if you know your expenditure, at the end of that dieting phase, you can at least come back to it pretty rapidly. Would you say that that is a reasonable approach, you know, if you know your dynamic maintenance, just restore to that or is it more complicated than that for some people,

Lauren Colenso-Semple 24:58

I think and this is another thing we don't know is the effects of being there chronically some, you know, in a simple example of you diet down really hard for a physique competition, or, and you're in that state for a couple of weeks, then yeah, if you can restore your, you know, to your chair maintenance or your new maintenance, quickly, then all of the physiological benefits will come. And there really isn't much of an advantage of staying too lean too long, unless you have a subsequent competition. But if you're somebody who is going there, and then trying to restore, but you don't really get there, and then you go back down, and you do that continuously over a year, for example, then what we don't know the kind of chronic effects of doing that over and over again. And so and I think, I would speculate that, it's actually going to take you a really long time to fully restore. Because what we will see with the kind of recovery diet literature in general, although that's pretty limited, that even if you return to your, you know, pre diet weight, sometimes some of the other parameters, like hormone levels, or menstrual cycle function don't return as quickly. And it can, in some cases take months and months for those to actually come back. So I would advise against spending too much time in a state where you're going to be disrupting your hormonal function, your reproductive function, and probably losing muscle mass as well.

Philip Pape 26:51

That makes sense. So in that case, is there is there a strategy of overshooting and just going into a lean gain as soon as you can to speed hasten the recovery? Do we see that happen at the risk of a little bit of fat gain? Of course.

Lauren Colenso-Semple 27:06

Yeah, I feel like the term Lean gain can often be interpreted as I'm going to stay lean,

Philip Pape 27:14

conservative calorie surplus? Okay. Yeah,

Lauren Colenso-Semple 27:19

I would, I would say that, because the and I think that's one of the biggest mistakes that female physique competitors often make is that they're, they get really tied to looking a certain way and a level of, of leanness that just isn't really sustainable. And you pay the price for that. And eventually, you will have to face the either health consequences, metabolic consequences, whatever, you know, what have you with in that situation. So you will have to accept assuming you are very, very lean, you will have to accept a certain level of fat gain, some of us just can't maintain in perpetuity, a super super shredded physique.

Philip Pape 28:03

It's funny because this is anecdotal. But I've gotten to the point with clients now where I have this phrase I use called the top side of maintenance where I've seen it time and time again, you recover and you're not quite recovered, and you just kind of stay there meta, like your rate, metabolic rate just doesn't come up. And he's bumped it up a little bit. And even without gaining much weight at all, or at all, because it's just so negligible, all of a sudden, the metabolism starts to climb. And that's that's people who aren't even as extreme as you're talking about. So just for people listening, it's, you know, like, don't be afraid of these things, know that if your body's not responding, there could be a solution for you. And yeah, is there? Is there anything else about low energy we should cover really just I don't know, the loss of muscle mass, or you mentioned injury risk as well. I think that's an interesting one. Yeah,

Lauren Colenso-Semple 28:50

when you're getting into these really low states of, of energy availability, then pretty much everything is tanking. And so you're, you're just surviving at that point, you're certainly not going to be able to improve your performance. You're not getting strength, you're not gaining muscle, you're potentially slowly losing muscle. And so the app it's not good for your athletic pursuits, it's not good for your health. And I'd say for your example, where people are not necessarily in a, you know, severe state of leanness, but they are kind of hesitating to eat more, or they're hyper focused on sort of even staying like photo shoot lean, if you will. What, what I push my clients to do is allow yourself the time to eat more, yes, gain a little bit of body fat, but really crush it in the gym, get stronger gain muscle and then the next time you diet down, you're going to see those physique enhancements that you're really going for, you know, whether it's a loop development or shorter development, you're not getting there, especially as an intermediate trainee, you're not getting there without being in a in a state of reasonable caloric intake. Yeah.

Philip Pape 30:13

Listen to Lauren, she is full of wisdom. This is great. It really is great advice that just take that time to build the muscle, and it's gonna pay off. And you're gonna enjoy that. I think I mean, in my opinion, just being in a surplus in training and senior lifts golf all the time, it's kind of a fun place to be for a lot of folks with the knowledge that you might get that little power belly and some of us like to call it. Okay, cool. So the next big hot topic that you've written about is machine versus free weights. And the article in mass was does machine based training, improve free weight, strength, performance. And I know this is huge controversy when you watch YouTube or whatever, you'll see all these debates about this. But there's always nuance. And your article discussed discussed a study comparing the two. And the exercises included barbell or machine, squat row, overhead press and bench press, they found a similar muscle growth in the quads, pecs, and abs, and then strength increase similarly on both trained and non trained exercise. And there's more findings, I don't want to just take away from you here, give us the big picture. Starting with novice lifters, we've got definitely beginners who listen and maybe intermediate and some advanced, but on the spectrum, what are the main factors that should I guess, drive someone to someone's decision? Assuming they have access to a full gym and whatever equipment they want? That's the assumption first, what drives them to include free weights and machines in their program? Yeah,

Lauren Colenso-Semple 31:43

so what this study showed that was interesting is they tested everybody at the beginning on all of the machine based exercises and all of the free weight exercises. And then they divided them into two groups. And they had them either train just machine or just free weight. And then they tested everybody again. So when you when you say that the trained or the non trained exercise, just just to clarify, that meant the regardless of whether you were doing machine based training, you had pre and post tests in previous training, as well, and vice versa. So what they found, and I would say is fairly consistent in the literature is that there is some crossover. So if you're doing barbell squats, then you're probably going to improve your strength performance on the hack squat and vice versa. With muscle growth, it's very consistent that you can get equal muscle growth, whether you're doing machine based or free weight exercise training. That said, Of course, if you are competing in powerlifting, or Olympic lifting, or CrossFit or something where you need to focus on the performance of a particular lift, then the principle of specificity is going to be important. You're you have to barbell squat in order to perfect your technique and get super super strong in a barbell squat. But I think for the majority of people who are either focusing on general health or hypertrophy or overall strength, you can feel comfortable including both free weight, or machine based training or kind of mixing it up as you change your program throughout a given year. And feel that you're getting benefits either way, and that those will well transfer to a pretty large degree. The other thing I would say is if you're somebody who is focused on optimizing your hypertrophy, there are some exercises that machines can target much better than free weights. So think about a leg extension machine trying to do that with a free weight really difficult. So if you if you are somebody who is really looking to optimize your physique on all fronts, then I think there's an argument for including some machine based training that perhaps free weight exercises are not optimized for.

Philip Pape 34:11

Okay, yeah, that was a good summary. So for strength, there's some crossover for muscle growth. It's almost anything, can crossover not anything, but I mean, the equivalent type of exercise for that muscle group. Specificity is still important for skill for, you know, performance based events. And it's good to include both I like your last comment about you know, sometimes machines are superior, depending on what your goal is. Is there a case where, what was the question I was gonna ask, essentially, is there a is there a detriment to being exclusive for a while? Or can that also be beneficial? Meaning if you're not a power lifter, you're just focused on general health, general strength of physique of just doing say barbells and free weights for a while just doing machines or some combination, like, you know, doesn't matter? Is it more of a matter of like, do it's kind of enjoyable and get to result Along the way, what's your message there?

Lauren Colenso-Semple 35:01

Yeah, I think there. If you're new, there are some exercises that are really technically challenging. And so you, like a barbell squat is a technically challenging lift, a leg press, not so much. And so if you're somebody who really wants to learn how to do a barbell squat, then great, I probably wouldn't start there, I'd probably start with a goblet squat, and maybe progressed to a box squat and then develop the the skill and the sort of kinesthetic awareness required to do a barbell squat. The same thing goes for a deadlift. It's not an intuitive exercise. And if you're someone who's a bit more intimidated about learning to lift or, or going to the gym, and kind of figuring things out, I think machines are a really great place to start. There's also safety consideration, if you're, you're more likely to have to have a potential accident in a barbell lift. If you don't have a spotter, and you don't know how to bail out than you would be on a machine, there's more just sort of safety things that are in place there. However, not all machines are great for everybody. And you might find that for your limb length, for example, like that leg extension or leg curl machine just doesn't feel good for you. And you just can't kind of get into a position that works. And in that case, I'd say don't use that machine. And there, that's true kind of across the board, people who are shorter can have issues with certain machines. Or if there's a machine locks you into a particular angle of with your shoulder, like you might find that overhead press machine just doesn't feel good to me. Whereas if you're using dumbbells, you have total control over how you adjust that angle. And so I think that's a that's really important and something else to consider. But oh, and the last thing I would say is, if you're tracking your weights over time, then the weights on one machine aren't necessarily going to translate to that, that of another machine. So if you're going to a different gym, or you're using a different machine of the same exercise, then you just need to be aware that you that it's not kind of one size fits all. But with those. That being said, I think machines are great. And free weight exercises are great. And you should really feel free to kind of incorporate whatever you feel comfortable with whatever you prefer, and switch it up over time. And machines do give you that flexibility to like there's a million different ways that you can do a chest fly like you can do with a dumbbell, you can do a cable crossover, you can use a pec deck machine like then that can be kind of fun if you feel like your training is getting stale.

Philip Pape 37:59

Yeah, no, I agree I'm fully on board with that I'm actually doing a bodybuilding program now been doing for four weeks, and it's great to have a little both in there, you know, it's just mentally, psychologically can be helpful, too, when you're trying to put in all that work. One of the one of the interesting tip that Andy Baker gave on our show was, you know, if you use a machine that locks into a certain plane of motion, it might help you with the mind muscle connection for that target muscle that can then transfer to a freeway, just just sharing, you know, because I thought that was there's a lot of benefits to everything. You also meant to mention cable machines, which for the listener, those are more like free weights, even though they're technically called a machine, would you agree or not,

Lauren Colenso-Semple 38:43

I would still call it a machine. Okay. But the the advantage of the cable is that you can adjust your kind of anchor point and so you you aren't locked in. And so you like you can put the cable sack low or, or high or mid range and everything in between. So I love the cable machine. I think they're amazing. And you're also like, the reason I call him machine is because you're getting resistance through the full range of the exercise. And there's really no free way to exercise where that's the case. So yeah, but it's by far the most flexible machine and that's why I love it. Because there's just so many you can make any exercise work for you with with all that flexibility on that.

Philip Pape 39:34

Awesome. So maybe what we'll do is for our little bonus talk after this for the email subscribers, we'll talk about some of your favorite exercises for maybe different body parts, something like that. Sure, yeah. Alright, so the last one is unfunctional training quotes in quotes, functional training. And I have to tell you, I did CrossFit for eight years. So I know the lingo. I came through the ethos like you would use the word of, you know functional training for, you know, natural movement, whatever it's called. And you wrote an article called functional exercise training useful framework, or frivolous fad, examining the term and how it's used in fitness, that there's not really an agreed upon definition of what it is. And that there's maybe a whole bunch of claims that, you know, being be more effective or not, can't be supported because of the terminology. I don't want to get too much into it, I'll let you explain. The term functional training isn't helpful. It's not helpful. What are your what's your thoughts on that?

Lauren Colenso-Semple 40:31

Yeah, this is a term that I've heard since I got my first group fitness or personal trainer certification. And I sort of found the concept a bit confusing at the time. But there were personal trainers in the gym, always doing everything on one leg or on a BOSU and, and then somehow that made it more quote, unquote, functional. So I was really interested to dive into the literature on this, because it turns out, there's really no basis for using this buzzword. And but it's been used for 20 years, and is still really, really popular group fitness classes, definitely emphasize it, private training gems, use that. And often the definition is, or the perceived definition is that doing these types of exercises will translate to your daily physical function. So your ability to walk up the stairs, or carry groceries or do things that are, that are part of your daily life in movement. But it can also be used to describe athletics specific training, like sports specific training. So if we do this, then it will translate to that task in sports. So there's really a kind of nebulous definition. And the words that are used to describe it include so many from from all sorts of exercise, so you see things like strength and muscle growth, balance, endurance, speed, core stability. So there's they're taking all of these components of other really well established types of exercise training, and trying to kind of combine them to develop something that's new, that isn't really new. So the two major components of this that I discussed in the article were core stabilization, and unstable surface training, because those seem like really synonymous with functional training. And the consensus really was, there's not a lot of evidence to suggest that core stabilization training is really that effective, because most core exercises, when you think about exercises that promote, quote, unquote, core stability, we're talking about variations of planks, or unilateral exercises, most of which you're either using no load, or you have to lighten the load in order to adequately perform the exercise, when in reality, what promotes core function or the transfer of force production in the core musculature is going to be load. So you accomplish that by just doing traditional resistance training.

Philip Pape 43:40

I love that that's a great message. I mean, it's got to be loaded. Yeah, you're right, these things are much lighter. And I've also Yeah, the use of functional training to apply to everything from, like you said, movement patterns to sport specific things. And you mentioned specificity in there. It sounds like all the fitness attributes, you combine them into this amazing new program. And for $497. Today, only, you can get your functional training, you know, game on. So anyway, we can be a little tongue in cheek with it. But I just wanted to put that out for folks, because I have heard people say, Well, what do you recommend for functional training? And I think it's good to be very clear with our language. So thank you. Yeah,

Lauren Colenso-Semple 44:20

the most important takeaway is having muscle and being strong, is functional. So whatever you can do to promote hypertrophy and strength gain makes you a more functional human being there, you don't need to be doing anything fancy.

Philip Pape 44:37

Be strong build muscle lift weights, everything we talked about today, and you'll get, you'll get swole and you'll get functional all the same time. So alright, so I like to ask this question of all guests, Lauren, and that is what question Did you wish I had asked and what is your answer?

Lauren Colenso-Semple 44:52

I would say, we didn't talk about sex based differences in response to training and so often there's an assumption that males are primed for strength and hypertrophy in a way that that females are not. And that that is due to their anabolic response, again, going back to the hormones that we discussed earlier, but what we see is that in the pre training, so kind of post puberty, men have more muscle mass than women. And that is because of a post puberty increase in testosterone. So it that's important in development. But when you actually start lifting weights, the rate of increase in muscle mass and strength is actually similar between men and women. And that's something that people really push back on and have a hard time hearing. But that's what the evidence suggests. So again, on an absolute level, women, men who who left are going to be bigger than women who left, because the starting point was different. But from a relative perspective, the gains are similar.

Philip Pape 46:07

That's awesome. Yeah. So you're saying that the, for the same? I guess, relative stimulus in calorie surplus during muscle building, you can gain the same amount per month? Regardless, or something?

Lauren Colenso-Semple 46:21

The same percentage? I mean, so let's say we had two people, but one of each sex with the same amount of muscle mass at baseline, if they train consistently, they will the rate of gain will be similar, regardless,

Philip Pape 46:41

in relative terms to their starting muscle mass. Correct. Okay, cool. No, that's good to know. Actually, I had not, I've always expressed it in absolute terms. And like you said, there is going to be a difference there, as we see and isn't even huge, really, I mean, if you're working at it, you'll get great results. It just may take a tiny bit longer in absolute terms, but women are smaller and have less muscle mass and higher body fat to begin with. So relative terms, it's still the same. Okay, very cool. All right. Where can listeners learn more about you, Lauren, and your work? The

Lauren Colenso-Semple 47:13

massive news research review, please check that out. Mass research review.com. We also do YouTube Live, which is available for anyone, whether you're a subscriber or not every Wednesday night at 7pm. And you can find me on Instagram at @laurencs1.

Philip Pape 47:30

All right, so the mass Research Review, which I'm a subscriber of as well, so definitely big fan of that YouTube Live and iG. I'll put all that in your show notes. Lauren, this was awesome. We covered a lot, but I think it was like super concise and right to the point where people can take it away and run with it. So thank you so much. Thanks

Lauren Colenso-Semple 47:47

so much for having me.

Philip Pape 47:50

Philip Pape 1/16/24 Philip Pape 1/16/24

Ep 138: The Dangers of Low Protein for Longevity

Have you heard the claim that if you eat LESS protein, you’ll live longer? In this episode, Philip debunks the low-protein myth hitting the circuit that says if you want to live longer, you need to eat a LOW PROTEIN diet. Even if it tacked on a couple of years, a low-protein diet would destroy your quality of life and your health span in those years you do have left, assuming it doesn't kill you first, and that's enough to call it dangerous. Today you will learn exactly what these arguments are, whether a low-protein diet has any merit whatsoever, and the optimal level and sources of protein if you want not just a longer lifespan but a longer healthspan.

Have you heard the claim that if you eat LESS protein, you’ll live longer?

In this episode, Philip (@witsandweights) debunks the low-protein myth hitting the circuit that says if you want to live longer, you need to eat a LOW PROTEIN diet. Even if it tacked on a couple of years, a low-protein diet would destroy your quality of life and your health span in those years you do have left, assuming it doesn't kill you first, and that's enough to call it dangerous. Today you will learn exactly what these arguments are, whether a low-protein diet has any merit whatsoever, and the optimal level and sources of protein if you want not just a longer lifespan but a longer healthspan.

Episode summary:

The topic of protein intake and its relation to longevity and health has been a subject of much debate in the nutrition and fitness communities. While some advocate for low-protein diets as a means to extend lifespan, the evidence presented here provides compelling arguments against this approach, particularly for the aging population. The episode provides a detailed exploration of why adequate protein intake is not only beneficial but essential for maintaining muscle mass, immune function, and overall health as we age.

The dangers of subscribing to a low-protein diet, especially among older adults, cannot be overstated. As we age, our bodies become less efficient at synthesizing protein, which can lead to sarcopenia, the degenerative loss of muscle mass and strength. This condition not only impairs mobility and the ability to perform daily tasks but also increases the risk of falls and fractures, which are leading causes of mortality in the elderly. The podcast episode challenges the notion that a low-protein diet could contribute to a longer life, pointing out that any potential gains in lifespan would likely come at the cost of reduced health span, quality of life, and increased vulnerability to injury.

Furthermore, the episode dives into the importance of protein for various bodily functions. Protein plays a critical role in supporting the immune system, which is particularly important for fending off illnesses as we grow older. It is also vital for maintaining bone density, thus helping to prevent osteoporosis, and is a key factor in muscle protein synthesis. The episode highlights that higher protein intake is linked to improved metabolic health markers, such as insulin sensitivity, blood pressure regulation, and cholesterol profiles. These benefits are critical for reducing the risk of chronic diseases associated with aging.

When it comes to the source of protein, the podcast underscores the significance of quality. It encourages a diet rich in whole foods, which are the best sources of protein, whether for omnivores, vegetarians, or vegans. It also addresses concerns about protein supplementation, clarifying that while protein powders derived from whole foods can be part of a balanced diet, it's advisable to limit their consumption to no more than a third of one's daily protein intake.

In summary, the episode convincingly argues that adequate protein intake is paramount for a vigorous and healthy life, particularly as we grow older. It provides a thorough examination of the science behind protein and aging, debunking the low-protein longevity myth and advocating for a diet that includes sufficient high-quality protein to support robust health. The take-home message is clear: to maintain muscle mass, strengthen the immune system, and ensure overall well-being, one must not fall prey to the misguided notion that less protein equals a longer life.

The key to aging gracefully and healthfully is not in restricting protein but in embracing a diet that supports our physical needs throughout the life span. The insights provided in this episode are not just a call to action for those seeking to optimize their health but also a reminder of the power of evidence-based nutrition in shaping our understanding of what it truly means to live a robust, strong, and fulfilling life.

Today, you’ll learn all about:

0:00 Intro
2:09 Recent five-star review on the podcast
4:17 Protein is essential for overall health
6:20 Low protein arguments
10:38 The benefits of high protein
22:45 Broad and deep food matrix
29:09 Outro

Episode Resources:

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Transcript

Philip Pape 00:00

Have you heard the claim that you should eat less protein and you'll live longer? Honestly, I couldn't believe it when I first heard this. And even if it did tack on a couple of years, which is highly doubtful based on the science, a low protein diet will destroy your quality of life and your health span. In those years you have left, assuming it doesn't kill you first. And that's enough for me to call it dangerous and put together this episode. So the low protein zealots don't send you in the wrong direction. Stick around. As we get to the bottom of the low protein hypothesis. One of the fresh new claims in the fitness industry to watch out for put on your skepticism hats as we dive into the dangers of low protein for longevity. Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in Wits & Weights

Philip Pape 01:08

community Welcome to another solo episode of the Wits & Weights podcast. In our last episode 137 Unlock abundance in fitness and every other aspect of life with Rebecca Whitman. Rebecca shared her philosophy of the Seven Pillars of abundance challenging us to rethink how we balance our lives, with an emphasis on physical abundance, and specific tips on harnessing your full potential. Today for episode 138 The dangers of low protein for longevity, we are debunking the low protein hypothesis or myth hitting the circuit that says if you want to live longer, you need to eat a low protein diet. You're either shaking your head in shock right now, or curious whether this claim has any merit whatsoever. Either way, today you're going to learn exactly what these arguments are, whether a low protein diet has any merit and the optimal level and sources of protein if you want not just a longer lifespan, but a longer health span. Now before we do this, I do want to share just one of the recent five star reviews today of this podcast that is relevant not just today's episode, but to the mission of the show, and it's from big jags. Very helpful and informative. This podcast is both helpful and informative because he uses science and experience to help you build both build muscle and lift properly, while maintaining a balanced and reasonable diet. And honestly I couldn't have said it better. myself a combination of science and experience. That's what we call evidence right. And building muscle lifting properly and maintaining a reasonable diet. That's really what it's about. So thank you big Jags for that review. And anybody anyone listening. One of the best things ways you could support the show is to do a five star rating and review on Apple or Spotify. Apple's the only platform where you can write in your review and that is very helpful when others are looking for the show. A good show to watch in the nutrition category and really any category and health and fitness. So I would appreciate if you go pause the episode and write a review on Apple, a five star review if you think it is deserved. All right. Let's put on our skeptic hats together, shall we? In today's topic, the dangers of low protein for longevity. Now I didn't believe it until I saw some let's just say not very well muscled fit flu answers. Sorry to be cruel maybe that's as mean as I get on the show, but look them up for yourself. I won't give them a platform by naming them here. But these these fit fluid answers the so called doctors, you know anyone with an MD in their name that uses that as a I'm gonna call it logical fallacy to to assume that they are an expert. They're making the claim that too much protein is a bad thing for older adults. Despite decades upon decades of research that paints a far more, I was gonna say nuanced picture, but I think it's actually a very clear picture about protein proteins effects on longevity. So I will state this unequivocally and with complete confidence, especially knowing how much it has helped clients of all ages of mine, but especially those over 40 and beyond. Protein is essential for muscle maintenance, immune function and overall health. Furthermore, as we age, protein needs actually increase because we want to prevent muscle loss what we call sarcopenia and copious researchers emphasize the importance of adequate protein intake in older adults for maintaining muscle mass and function, low muscle mass as we age, I am convinced at this point, it's probably the number one risk factor for injury and death because the leading cause of death and people over 75 is falling. We live in a world of physical hazards of other humans like our grandkids when we want to play With and carry. I mean, I don't have grandkids, I have daughters. But same ideas as we age, we want to be able to interact with people in a physical way. They need to haul large objects around whether we're grocery shopping, whether you're helping someone move, going on vacation, doing work around the house, working with your hands, all the things we want to do as humans into old age, simply avoiding joint pain and injury. So muscle is arguably far more important than weight management, in the long run, even for obesity as a cure for obesity, just having more muscle, if we're going to stay fit and avoid metabolic disease. So I'm very passionate about this because any message that says the other the opposite. In fact, going to an extreme like many fad diets have over the years of cutting something out or lowering it significantly, must be questioned on its face, the burden of proof is on them. When we look closely at the science, higher protein still appears clearly beneficial, not detrimental in any way for long term health, no matter your age, and even more so as you age. And there are some major problems with these low protein claims. In what is just an ever growing fringe, one of the new of many fringes of the fitness industry, and one of the message missions of the show is to debunk those claims. So let's get into it. What are the low protein arguments? Some researchers argue that excessive protein increases oxidative stress, inflammation, insulin resistance, and some other mechanisms that accelerate aging. And they often cite studies where rodents are fed isolated protein or amino amino acids, and they just live a shorter lifespan. Serious question for you, dear listener? Are you a rat in a laboratory whose diet consists solely of isolated casein protein? No. Now I know that's a that's a bait, a bait type question. Right? It's more sarcasm than anything. But the problem with these rodents studies are that we have studies and observations of longer living primate species. And I think humans are closer to primates, right, because we are primates than rats that show the opposite effect, you know, including studies in humans themselves, increased lifespan higher, but you know, increased lifespan associated with higher chronic protein feeding. And so this suggests pretty strongly that proteins effects likely depend on your overall diet composition, right, you're not just eating amino acids in high amounts while trapped in a cage. And it may differ between mammalian species. And this is actually a very common roadblock that we run into when we try to extrapolate the results of studies on rodents to everyday life as a human. Now, either that, or the researchers running these experiments, don't want those rats, or those mice to get too jacked and overpower them in the lab. And I guess that theory is equally plausible. So you pick the one you want. Alright? Conversely, there are studies like condo at all, which released just this year by this year. I mean, actually, last year when this episode is coming down to in 2023, which were also done on mice using what they call isocaloric, which is equivalent calorie diets at different percentages of protein, I think it was 1525 35 45% of calories. And they showed that intakes of 25 and 30%, or I'm sorry, 25 and 35% are associated with improved metabolic health into old age. And if you were to extrapolate that to human diet, it's right in the ballpark of the recommendations, we often talk about like point A to point one grams per pound, when you're eating, say 2000 calories, and you're an average sized person is going to put you around 2530 35% of your calories being protein. Now those that percentage goes up during fat loss. But fat loss is a short term period, if you're doing it right, it's at most a few months out of the year. And it puts it a little bit less if your calories are higher if you're in a gaining phase. But it's in the range. It's nowhere near what the low protein advocates are talking about. So go figure, right like whether you want to believe the rat studies or or extrapolate from them or not even they have disagreements. Okay, the other big area for the low protein advocates is a very narrow focus on certain pathways like mTOR and IGF one signaling and they attribute the harm from protein to activating these pathways. The problem here is that they ignore that protein supports many other vital health pathways as well. And proteins ability to build to repair to maintain muscle mass and avoid the significant longevity impeding declines that come with that, such as frailty, and weakness in older age, that's a big problem. Like if you don't think of everything in context and you just sit you know, pull out this one, these one or two pathways. So when you assess the entire body of current research, restricting protein intake does not To appear to provide healthy longevity in humans, right? And note the keyword they're healthy. You know, would you rather live a few extra years being sickly and weak, or live a normal robust lifespan, as a strong functioning rambunctious human who has their wits about them, see what I did there, until the day the Grim Reaper calls, that's where I want to be. Right? Now, when assessing the entire body of research, a low protein diet provides very little benefit at all to aging. And here's the worst thing, it can be downright harmful. So now I want to flip it around and say, Well, what are the benefits of higher protein because we have tons of data that show us the benefits of high protein. And by high protein, I really mean a sufficient amount of protein for building muscle and maintaining a healthy lifestyle that just happens to be higher and sometimes much higher than what the average person consumes. And I actually just got my hair cut today, my Barbara was talking about, you know, you know, a lot of people should just be eating a balanced diet, right, we just want a balanced diet. And I said, you know, I agree, what I would challenge about that is what people think of as balanced. Because I think in the modern, especially Western society, everything is so skewed by the food availability and the high, you know, processed food consumption diet, and we don't really understand what balance means. And so when I tell you to eat 150 grams of protein a day, and you're currently eating 50, and you're like, there's no way I can get 150, that's crazy, don't we want to eat a balanced diet, once you've made that shift and realize how it all plays together with the fats and the carbs and the the nutrients and the fiber and everything else, you realize that it is quite balanced, when protein is making up 25% of your calories, that doesn't seem imbalanced. To be honest, that seems pretty reasonable. For most people, protein makes up like 10% of their diet. To me that's imbalanced. So anyway, just that was a side tangent that I think is important. When we say higher protein, right, but way higher than these low protein advocates are talking about. So contrary to whatever outdated dogma they might be referring to, like, you know, it's gonna mess up your liver or something, or kidneys, I'm sorry, increased protein intake, we know improves numerous biomarkers associated with longevity and disease prevention in humans. So for example, research shows higher protein enhances insulin sensitivity, not the other way is we know this, because we also know that it enables more muscle mass. And guess what that increases insulin sensitivity. It enhances blood sugar regulation, blood pressure, your lipid profiles, right, your cholesterol, inflammation status, all of these, which you're probably aware of are crucial for metabolic and cardiovascular health. So higher intakes of protein, whether it's leucine rich animal protein sources, or a diverse plant based diet, as long as it's full of the essential amino acids, and you get enough protein, help preserve muscle mass and strength as we get older. And then this of course, minimizes the risk of sarcopenia. That muscle wasting that happens. We all know older folks, in fact, is the majority of older folks walking around, stooped over weak prone to a fall prone to breaking something, being in the hospital going on a bunch of drugs, getting pneumonia, I hate to paint that picture, but it's reality. And it's all because of muscle mass, it's all comes down to muscle mass. I mean, that's it sarcopenia sarcopenia, and osteopenia are kind of tied together osteopenia or osteoporosis, the loss of bone density, they're all tied together to a lack of strength training a lack of protein. Alright, so preserving more metabolically active muscle clearly outweighs any claim of minor oxidative damage from these pathways, you know from protein metabolism, that are very specious ly claimed in these from these studies. Conversely, having low muscle mass, as I just alluded to dramatically increases your odds of osteoporosis, frailty falls, remember the leading cause of death for those over 75 is falling, injury, and even your mental health, anxiety and depression. There's a correlation between lower muscle mass and higher anxiety and depression, whether it's a direct cause or a proximal cause because of all the terrible things that now happen in your life and your health because you don't have muscle mass. And that leads to anxiety, depression, whatever the reason, there's a very close correlation. Now my 65 year old clients, okay, and I work with people from 30s to their 60s Generally, my 65 year old clients who probably deadlift more than the strongest of these low protein researchers. Sorry, I know that's a low blow but I can't help myself today because it's probably true. If just look them up, please. They're not very well muscle. I think I mentioned that before. As these 65 year old clients are some of the most vibrant, capable, active alive individuals I've ever seen. They are building new muscle tissue for the first time in decades. And by the way, you can build muscle to pretty much the day you die, but there's recent research that shows in your 80s and 90s As you can build new muscle tissue, and that would not be possible without adequate protein, and the low protein level that these researchers are arguing for, is not going to cut it. Again, I would argue that these direct health benefits outweigh any claim oxidative changes or activation of signaling pathways. Hey, this is Philip. And I hope you're enjoying this episode of Wits & Weights, I started Wits & Weights to help people who want to build muscle lose fat and actually look like they lift. I've noticed that when people improve their strength and physique, they not only look and feel better, they transform other areas of their life, their health, their mental resilience and their confidence in everything they do. And since you're listening to this podcast, I assume you want the same things the same success, whether you recently started lifting, or you've been at this for a while and want to optimize and reach a new level of success. Either way, my one on one coaching focused on engineering your physique and body composition is for you. If you want expert guidance and want to get results faster, easier, and with fewer frustrations along the way to actually look like you lift, go to wits & weights.com, and click on coaching, or use the link in my show notes to apply today. I'll ask you a few short questions to decide if we're a good fit. If we are, we'll get you started this week. Now back to the show.

Philip Pape 16:22

Now beyond being just a building block of tissue, protein provides many other essential benefits for health. higher intake supports immune function, antioxidant capacity, bone density, skin integrity, we many of you know the association between proteins and skin, right? It's why people take like to consume Collagen For Skin Health, hormone balance, enzyme production, neurotransmitters, gut microbiome diversity, without adequate protein over time, age related declines in all of these systems accelerate, why would you want to do that to yourself? Research suggests that the older we get, the more protein we may need. And fact approaching the one gram per pound of high quality protein daily. So when you hear about the recommendations for like point seven or point six to one gram per pound, and I always tell you, like just aim for the one you know, it's a little bit of a stretch goal for most people, if you get point eight or point seven, you'll be fine. But the older you get the the closer you actually may want to be to that one gram per pound. Because your efficiency and nutrient utilization and muscle protein synthesis ability declines, right. And so now you're trying to get more, or you're trying to, you get less from the same amount. So you need more of that protein to get what you got when you were younger. Now, omnivores versus vegans versus vegetarians, omnivores are going to have an easier time of this, right of getting a high quality protein and get getting enough of it because of the margin of error, you know, got animal sources, which just make it easy to get your protein, vegetarians who eat dairy and or eggs. Those can be a big source of protein along with plants. And then vegans have to just be very smart about their food selection, and probably have supplementation as well, to ensure the inclusion of all the essential amino acids and you know, good nutrient diversity. What are the benefits, okay, if you listen to this podcast, is there's two other reasons why I like my clients to increase their protein as soon as possible. The first one is satiety, we know that protein has a higher thermic effect of feeding, so burns a few more calories, but it also makes you fuller. So it's a nice benefit in when we're trying to regulate our hunger signals and change the volume of food we eat and the calories we eat. And number two, food quality and selection. You've heard me say this before, maybe not maybe if you're new to the show, if you go to the grocery store, and I tell you to buy protein dominant foods, even have a very hard time buying enough protein if you stick to the middle aisles where all the packaged foods are, you know, other than maybe maybe beans, right and some of the plant foods that have protein, but if you really want a lot of protein, you're gonna go out around the edges, you know, to the the animal sources to the dairy, to the the fresh fat produce, and so on to get your protein meat, meaning if I asked you to greatly increase your protein from say, 50 to 150 grams, you're gonna start eating more whole foods, you're going to take an additive approach to doing that you're not going to be thinking, Well, I'm on a diet. So I need to cut things out, you're gonna think, oh, I want to get more protein, because it's good for my muscle mass on my health and let me figure out how to do that. Okay, so that's the benefits of protein. If you needed to know that at all right? Preaching to the choir, perhaps here. The other piece of this is supplementation. I just want to address briefly, because some researchers worry that there's potential harm specifically from excessive amino acid or protein supplementation and you might say like, okay, maybe that's closer to these mice studies, where they're being fed like pure amino acids. But here's the thing eating whole food protein sources As part of a balanced diet does not carry anywhere near what if there were risks of pure amino acids? Right? Recall again, these key studies and little protein research use rodents fed pure amino acids. Now regardless, if you consume protein from primarily Whole Foods, you will get a balanced diet and nutrition that regulates the absorption of those nutrients properly. And guess what? Protein powders are also technically a whole food in this context, if you think of like whey protein, or pea and rice protein, because they're just a filtered ground up version of a food, right from their for milk, or they're from plants. They're not just amino acids right? Now, something like essential amino acids, or branched chain amino acids bought as a powder form for a pre workout. For example, when you feed, track, train fasted, those are pure amino acids, but you are not consuming very much of those at all, you know, a few grams, like 510 grams of those, you're not consuming hundreds of grams, or whatever it would take to match what these mice are fit. So yeah, having now having said that, we talked about protein powders, just real quick caveat on that, I still think it's a good idea to limit those to like no more than a third of your daily protein at most. If you're using them on a regular basis. Like for some people it may be, it may be a big portion of your daily routine, because you're just trying to get the protein. But then you want to learn that skill and develop those habits of okay, how do I get more and more protein from food? Right? I personally take one or two whey protein shakes every single day. And it probably comprises 15 or 20% of my protein, right? It's not, it's a small amount. It's it's meaningful, but it's not huge. Regardless, it's still from a whole food. So part of the matrix, let's say. Now, thinking of protein in that context of food, and not just as amino acids is important here, because food regulates absorption. And it combines or balances those amino acids with other compounds, other beneficial compounds, many of which we don't even track or label as part of like in the food industry, right? Well, we have our nutrition labels, and we identify ingredients and things like that. Lots of plants have helpful compounds that are just, you don't realize they exist, because we don't talk about them. They're not labeled as micronutrients. They're not put on ingredient, ingredients and on packaging. And yet without the whole food itself, you wouldn't get that compound. It's the same reason I prefer, you know, eating an orange to drinking orange juice or eating an apple to drinking apple juice, or eating vegetables instead of taking greens powders, so that you get all those other compounds. And that's why I also prefer a focus on nutrient quality, nutrient density, you know, eating both plant and animal proteins unless you're vegan or vegetarian, and fiber, right. If you think of all these in your diet, as opposed to just hitting macros, you know that you end up consuming a broad and deep food matrix, think of it as a matrix, like a whole bunch of food combining together to give you this beautiful potpourri of nutrients and compounds. So you'll not only get plenty of protein, but you're also going to support your health that way. And if we're going to get concrete about it, think lean meats, fish, eggs, dairy, beans, lentils, soy nuts, seeds, right, they all contain protein, grains, of course, oats, and quinoa, and, and all of those. So, you know, don't buy into the plant bashing in the carnivore crowd, right, such as the the claim of low protein, digestibility, and plants. And all of that, right, these are far, far outweighed by the many other benefits of plants. Although I still prefer they be part of an omnivorous diet, it's going to make it easier to get what you want and need, but not necessarily, let's just say, also, anytime you cut things out, you're just limiting the number of foods and recipes that you can choose from. And that inhibits flexibility and adherence to your diet. Right? Also the wonderful many ways and flavors to cook things. And then the fiber, the nutrients or compounds that are in plants. Anyway, I'm going off on a tangent about food selection and quality and diet. But I think that's important. And if you're eating that way, and you have sufficient protein, you're golden. Okay. So when we analyze the full body of evidence, a low protein intake clearly and unequivocally worsens many health markers and accelerates aging. I don't see how you can make the argument otherwise, I just don't see it. And I know there's books been written on the topics. Please put your skeptic hat on. Okay, higher protein intake. We know from very well supported research. It preserves muscle it preserves function, resilience, your health, biomarkers, your quality of life into old age, with no clear upper limit of consumption from whole food sources, right? Unless you have a pre existing condition that precludes high protein intake, which is a very small percentage of population. You know who you are. I'm not speaking to you and I'm not a medical doctor. are okay, a daily protein intake of point seven to one gram per pound is optimal for supporting an active lifestyle for individuals who resistance train regularly. And I hope that's you. And if it's not you, if you're listening to you don't resistance train, what are you waiting for? You got to get on that on the on the resistance or resistance train train,

Philip Pape 25:20

okay? You guys are shaking your head. I'm corny sometimes, and I love it. So an activity that everyone should be doing, no matter who you are, until the day you die, is resistance training in some form or another. So consume a high quality omnivorous diet, you know, unless you're restricting your diet on purpose to vegetarian or vegan diet, with an emphasis on whole foods. Pay extra attention, if you know you have to restrict something. So that you get the quantity that you need, you know, high protein throughout your life should maximize your healthspan to match your lifespan, because of how powerful it is and keeping you strong and metabolically flexible. And I have no problem saying that. And anybody who listens to this, who's not eating enough protein, and they take it as their mission to get enough, because of this episode, I'm thrilled, I'm thrilled because I know how much healthier you're gonna be. And you're gonna be able to pack on more muscle and preserve the muscle you have. I personally would rather live a very high quality life by building a sustaining strength and muscle given muscles importance and healthspan so that I can look I can feel I can function my best well into my 80s and 90s. What about you? Is that what you want? Muscle is the answer. Muscle is the answer. And you can't do that without adequate protein. All right. As always, if you need some guidance on your training, on your nutrition on your protein sources, on just how the heck to make this all work. Because you want to get stronger, you want to build muscle, you want to improve your body composition, composition, or you want to lose 20 to 60 pounds of fat in about a six month period, which is a reasonable amount of time to do it the right way. And sustainably. I'm always happy to hop on a call with you. I call it a results breakthrough session. But who cares what it's called, it's a free 30 minute call. Where we just go over the plan we figure out the two or three things holding you back what actions you can take, not a sales pitch, not a sales call in any way. Just go to with go to wits & weights.com and click free call or use the link in my show notes. Again for 30 minutes, results breakthrough session, go to wits & weights.com, click free call or use the link in my show notes. Okay, in our next episode 139 Female strength resistance training hormones and muscle growth with Lauren Kalonzo sample from the mass Research Review. Lauren will be giving you insights into the latest research and strategies on female specific topics. Although men, you are going to love this episode as well, especially if you know women who you support and you want to understand women or you coach them or whatever. And we're gonna go over topics like the menstrual cycle and strength training, which might surprise you satellite cells and muscle growth. What the heck are those? Well, you gotta tune in to find out low energy availability machines versus free weights and functional training. Now check this out. It will also be the very first guest interview on this podcast where my guest and I so that's Lauren and I recorded special bonus content available only to subscribers of my email list. In the bonus video, I asked Lauren for her advice on strength training with machines than dumbbells, and barbells. And she shared exactly how to do that very simply over 10 minutes. She gave you step by step specific tips and things to do in the gym to do that. So if you want that bonus content in your inbox, go to wits & weights.com/bonus to sign up. Now if you're already on my list, which I'm calling the insider's list now, totally free of course, you'll receive a link soon after the episode comes out. It'll be a special email just with that information in it and a link to the unlisted video for you to check out. Again, just go to wits & weights.com/bonus to sign up ahead of time so you make sure to get it and or you can click the link in the show notes, wits & weights.com/bonus, or the link in the show notes. As always, stay strong. And I'll talk to you next time here on the Wits & Weights podcast. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights, please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong

Philip Pape 1/12/24 Philip Pape 1/12/24

Ep 137: Unlock Abundance in Fitness and Every Other Aspect of Life with Rebecca Whitman

What are the simple lifestyle adjustments that can have a profound impact on your fitness and well-being? In today’s episode, Philip is joined by Rebecca Whitman, an International best-selling author and top-ranked podcast host. Rebecca shares her philosophy of the 7 Pillars of Abundance, challenging you to rethink how to balance your life, emphasizing the physical abundance pillar. From her unique approach to her personal morning routine, you will learn how to embrace abundance, build resilience, and reshape your self-identity to harness your full potential.

What are the simple lifestyle adjustments that can have a profound impact on your fitness and well-being?

In today’s episode, Philip (@witsandweights) is joined by Rebecca Whitman, an International best-selling author and top-ranked podcast host. Rebecca shares her philosophy of the 7 Pillars of Abundance, challenging you to rethink how to balance your life, emphasizing the physical abundance pillar. From her unique approach to her personal morning routine, you will learn how to embrace abundance, build resilience, and reshape your self-identity to harness your full potential

Rebecca is a graduate of Princeton University with honors. She was awarded Life Coach of the Year and Empowered Woman of the Year by the International Association of Top Professionals. She was named one of the Top 7 Entrepreneurs to Watch in 2023 by “LA Weekly” magazine. She is also the host of the top 1% podcast, "The Balanced, Beautiful, and Abundant Show,” which won the Positive Change Award.

Rebecca, also known as the Magnetic Abundance Mentor, helps people find a harmonious balance among the seven pillars, unlocking more joy and freedom in their lives. She has transformed the lives of many women from burned out to balanced, beautiful, and abundant, including mentoring them to leave toxic relationships and magnetize their soul mates. She also created the 6 Figure Side Hustle program, helping women exit from unfulfilling jobs to a profitable purpose.

Episode summary:

When we talk about living a balanced and abundant life, it's easy to focus solely on the material aspects – the wealth, the possessions, and the outward signs of success. However, Rebecca Whitman's appearance paints a much more nuanced picture, emphasizing the interconnectivity of various life aspects that contribute to a truly rich and satisfying existence. Rebecca presents the concept of the seven pillars of abundance, a comprehensive approach to achieving holistic happiness.

The seven pillars encompass spiritual, fitness, emotional, romantic, mental, social, and financial well-being. Rebecca eloquently explains that true abundance is not about having an excess in one area, but rather finding a harmonious balance across all aspects of life. The notion is that when we nurture each of these pillars, we create a foundation for a life that is not only prosperous but also meaningful and joy-filled.

One might wonder how such a life can be actualized. The answer lies in the practical strategies Rebecca and Phillip share throughout the podcast. For instance, they emphasize the importance of a morning spiritual routine, which may include practices such as meditation, journaling, or prayer. This not only sets the tone for the day but also helps establish a connection with something greater than oneself, providing a source of comfort and guidance.

In discussing the fitness pillar, the conversation turns to the transformative impact of weight training. Rebecca shares her personal journey, noting that incorporating weights into her fitness regimen was pivotal in achieving the best shape of her life at 52. This segment of the episode challenges the misconception that weightlifting is solely for bulking up, showcasing it as a tool for crafting a leaner, stronger physique.

Nutrition and hydration are not left out of the conversation. They are considered foundational to physical health, affecting energy levels, skin health, and overall wellness. Rebecca talks about her routine of drinking lemon water with electrolytes and the benefits of a Mediterranean diet. She also touches on the need for personalized health routines that cater to one's individual needs, especially during different life stages, such as menopause.

Mental and emotional health are deeply intertwined, and the podcast does not shy away from this connection. Rebecca points out that all emotions stem from love or fear, and by choosing to focus on emotions rooted in love, such as joy and contentment, one can significantly improve their overall well-being. She further discusses the mental pillar, highlighting the importance of continuous learning and engagement of the mind through various means, including listening to podcasts like Wits and Weights.

In the social realm, the importance of community is underscored. The support of like-minded individuals can be a powerful motivator and source of encouragement, particularly when pursuing health and fitness goals. Similarly, the romantic pillar is examined, stressing the need for a partner who supports one's ambitions and lifestyle choices, as this can greatly influence one's path to abundance.

Finally, financial well-being is discussed, not in terms of wealth accumulation, but as a means to achieve freedom and the ability to live life on one's own terms. This reflects a shift from a scarcity mindset, where one is constantly chasing money, to an abundance mindset, where financial stability is seen as a tool for enabling a rich and diverse life experience.

Today, you’ll learn all about:

2:31 Journey from scarcity to abundance
5:17 The 7 pillars of abundance
10:11 Priority or hierarchal order of the pillars
15:41 The HNM philosophy: hydration, nutrition, movement, and meditation
24:43 Your morning routine
30:18 Active mind syndrome
32:55 "Stacking" practices for different pillars of abundance
36:28 25-year break from tennis
40:10 Impact of other pillars on overall health and well-being
44:20 Building resilience against life's obstacles
47:31 Where to find Rebecca
48:47 Outro

Episode Resources:

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Transcript

Rebecca Whitman 00:00

I realized wow, you can actually get leaner and harder if you lift weights, it doesn't mean you're gonna like bulk up and be this bodybuilder if you lift weights and that really changed my whole physique when I started lifting weights and now I'm 52 and I'm in the best shape of my life because I have incorporated weight so that's why another reason I love the title of your podcast Wits & Weights because weight training really changed my life.

Philip Pape 00:29

Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host, Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger, optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition. We'll uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in Wits & Weights community Welcome to another episode of the Wits & Weights Podcast. Today I'm joined by Rebecca Whitman, an international best selling author top ranked podcast hosts a positive force in the world of personal development and empowerment. Rebecca will share her philosophy of the Seven Pillars of abundance, challenging us to rethink how we balance our lives, with a bit of emphasis today on the physical abundance pillar. From her unique approach to her personal morning routine. You'll learn how to embrace abundance, build resilience, be more consistent, and reshape your self identity to harness your full potential. A graduate of Princeton University with honors, Rebecca was awarded Life Coach of the Year and empowered woman of the year by the International Association of top professionals and one of the top seven entrepreneurs to watch in 2023 by LA Weekly magazine. She's also the host of the top 1% podcast the balanced, beautiful and abundant show, which won the positive change award known as the magnetic abundance mentor. Rebecca's approach is designed to help people find a harmonious balance among the seven pillars of abundance, unlocking more joy and freedom in their lives. Rebecca, welcome to the show.

Rebecca Whitman 02:03

Thank you, Phillip. It's great to be here. I love the title of your podcast Wits. & Weights.

Philip Pape 02:09

Yeah, a little bit of alliteration. It came to me while we were at my daughter's soccer game. And I was just like brainstorming in my head. And somehow, somehow it came to me. So appreciate it. So thank you for coming on. And we're talking about abundance today and what that means, what that means in general, but also in the context of health and fitness. So what I'm curious about is, for contrast, is there a time in your life where you didn't? You clearly didn't have abundance, right? Maybe scarcity, whatever we want to call it? How did that experience? How did it feel and how to lead you to where you are today?

Rebecca Whitman 02:43

Well, I was raised in a very competitive house. And by the time I was eight, I was playing national tennis tournament. So I was taught that I had to when my dad literally had a sign in his office, it says, wasn't winning isn't everything. It's the only thing. So that is a scarcity mentality. And that is very like hypervigilant, competitive fight flight. And I did get results with that. I mean, I was, I graduated from Princeton with honors, and I, you know, had some sales records in my early career, and direct sales, but I was absolutely miserable. And not happy, I was overweight, I was having toxic relationships. It was just not a good way to live. And then I hit a bottom in 2003. And I started studying the law of attraction with Michael Beckwith, Abraham Hicks, Wayne Dyer. And I started understanding that I can have a scarcity mentality, or I can have an abundance mentality. And then I combine that with my study of, there's seven different areas of life and then I realized, I have a choice to make and all these seven areas, I can either look at my fitness, my romance, my emotional life, my financial life and an attitude of scarcity or abundance. And that is, that is what I call myself now the magnetic abundance mentor, because I believe that you can raise your vibration and life and magnetize abundance in all seven areas of life. Yeah,

Philip Pape 04:35

I love that. So the zero sum competitive game is kind of that rat race a lot of us live in on a daily basis, especially people who are high achievers, right people who are looking to constantly grow, whether it's personally and professionally and it's this competitive thing. And we I think we put that on a pedestal sometimes right as a positive value and a virtue, whereas what you're suggesting is it's not sustainable, right? It sounded like it burned you out, you were unhappy. And it led to all these other things. So thank you for segue now into the pillars because I want to establish that framework for folks. I always love frameworks and thinking of life as okay. I'm very, like, you know, got the engineering mind, I can imagine these seven buckets, maybe overlapping circles or something like that. You mentioned the seven are most of them spiritual, physical, emotional, romantic, mental, social, and financial, so elaborate on that framework, and then we can dive into a few of those. Sure.

Rebecca Whitman 05:29

So the framework is an order of importance, and how I set up my day and my week in my life. So the first one is spiritual. I am a huge believer in having a morning practice. And that is where I stay, I drink my water, take my supplements, we'll talk about my philosophy and fitness. But it's really where I start to tap into my relationship with my higher power. And I have an amazing tool that I'm going to share with your listeners. It's an abundance journal. And there's a story behind that tool. I'll get into that too, in a minute. But writing in that abundance journal, prayer, meditation, they're non negotiables. For me, the second pillar is fitness. And I don't work out every single day, but I do work out probably six days a week. And it is a combination of tennis, yoga, weight training, and walking. And I really do like having my competitive edge on the tennis court. So I'm not saying there's no room for competition, because it is fun to compete. It's fun to win, and, but I don't want to think of everything in my life as a competition. That is exhausting. The third pillar is emotion. And I do believe that all emotions come from fear, love. If you look at emotions that come from love, and this isn't me, this is A Course in Miracles teaches this. It's appreciation, happiness, contentment, satisfaction, joy comes from love. And then resentment, fear, anger, jealousy, bitterness, it all comes from fear. So you could also call it scarcity or abundance. So all emotions are either in scarcity, there's not enough good to go around, or there's an abundance of good to go around, whatever that is energy, time, money, love. The next pillar of abundance is romance. And romance affects all the areas just like all of them affect all the areas. So if you're with a partner that doesn't support your health and fitness goals, for example, if they want you to order pizza every night and have donuts every morning for breakfast, it's going to be really hard to achieve your health and fitness goals. Same is true with financial, if you want to be an entrepreneur, and swing for the fences and go for wealth and legacy. And they just want you to have a nine to five job and you know, watch TV all weekend, it's probably not a good fit. The next pillar after romance is mental. And that is what we're doing right here on this wonderful podcast Wits & Weights with Philip. And we're working on our mindset and there's many podcasts audibles, it could be learning a new skill, learning a new language, learning a sport, chess, poker, anything to work on your mindset. The next one is social, Your vibe attracts your tribe and community creates immunity. Having a community of like minded people is so important when you have a goal. So if your goal is to be healthy and fit, having a community, whether it's a gym, a Facebook group, a class of other people that have the same goal is critical. And the same is true with money. Having people in a community that want you to succeed financially, and that are on the same path as you that is so crucial. You know, it's the average of the five people you hang out with. Those are the results you have. The final pillar is financial. And that is making enough money to have a freedom. I don't believe in just sitting on a pile of money and doing nothing with it. I believe that life is meant to be lived. And money gives you freedom to do what you want, when you want where you want, and with who you want. And if you don't have enough money, you don't have any freedom. You're like that hamster on a treadmill, constantly just chasing that dollar bill, and you can't think of anything else. So it's important to find a way to get paid what you're worth, and not trade dollars for hours. Because if you're trading dollars for hours, you have limited amount of hours in a week, weeks in a year months in a year, and you will be limiting your income.

Philip Pape 09:50

Great, super concise. Thank you and it is interesting how they do tie together like when you talk about emotion and mental. I've always loved that separation you know Because I think sometimes we tie them all together. But there's really a distinct difference there. And the community part is huge. I mean, it really is huge when it comes to relatedness and having the support to get there. So, with with all of these seven things to focus on, I'm sure you get the question all the time about balance and what to go after, when you mentioned on another podcast podcast that I don't know if it was you, or clients or whoever or women always tend to put love and money at the top of the list, I think you'd mentioned. So you talked about this being an order of priority, is that so you're saying spirituals is the most important? Or is this just for you during a given day, there's a reason you rank me

Rebecca Whitman 10:38

and my teachings, it's just in my opinion, but this is these are the building blocks to build a balanced, beautiful and abundant life. They're there in order of importance, because emotions are over romance and finance. Because if you're miserable, sad, suicidal, what kind of a partner are you going to be? Or we've seen, you know, many rock stars and movie stars and billionaires, OD or commit suicide. So they had their finances together, but they were not emotionally well, so having your emotions in abundance, and love and happiness, that that's important, more important. But I if you notice, I put fitness over emotions, yes. Because if you have your health, you have everything. And if you don't have your house, you don't have anything. You could make a million dollars a minute. And if you're in a hospital with an IV up your nose and you know something in your arm and you're tied to a hospital bed, then what good is it?

Philip Pape 11:44

It's exactly what I've come to find to and in my practice that like if you don't have your physical, sometimes we talked about people talk about three buckets, right? They'll say physical health, wealth, relationships, right? It's kind of really simplistic. And if you don't have your physical you, how can you pursue the others, especially as we age, but I want to focus on the spiritual just for a second, some because I know some people aren't as quote unquote, spiritual and as it could be a loaded term, right? Some people think religion, some people think you mentioned meditation and prayer, or just a, your morning practice, elaborate on that a little bit. So people understand like, why is this? Number one? What makes it number one? And how is that personalized to someone?

Rebecca Whitman 12:25

If you don't have faith in anything, but yourself, that is a lot of pressure, I was an atheist, up until my freshman year in college, and I had literally a breakdown, where I did a fake suicide attempt and took like a bottle of CO Tylenol, because I just couldn't stand the pressure. And think faith in anything greater than yourself is going to give you a peaceful life. I don't care if it's nature, because we're not the ones you know, raising and setting the sun every day, we're not the ones pulling the ocean tides, forward and back. Whatever it is, having faith in anything that's greater than yourself that you can trust that, you know, has your back is it's just amazing to have a partner to go through life with. And you could say, well, it's not scientifically proven, but quantum physics is proven that everything is connected, and there's some kind of order to the chaos. So yeah, having faith in something greater than yourself, I don't care if it's the law of gravity, you know, you're not the person keeping your feet on the earth. But just knowing there's something out there. And then I met this woman at an AAA meeting, her name was Janet. And she taught me how to write and then God journal, she gave me some life changing journal prompts. I started doing that every single day. I've added a few journal prompts of my own, I haven't missed a day for 30 years. And that journal is part of my morning practice because it helps turn my negative thinking to positive. And it helps me see like a bigger picture, like one of the journal prompts is how is God doing for me what I couldn't do for myself. That is opening up my mind that there is a benevolent force in a friendly universe. And that just that one journal prompt, changed my whole way of thinking. And I'm actually going to give this journal as a gift to your listeners.

Philip Pape 14:28

Yeah, no, I love that. And people people listening for me a long time. No, I've struggled with journaling myself over the years and I'm actually in the midst of using a journal again sociate with another friend of mine, he has a thing going on there. But what comes to mind with all of this spiritual thing because I'm very open minded is purpose, right? Like is someone's purpose. The same thing, like the fact that someone is trying to do something beyond themselves, and that drives them. Would you say it's the same thing or is that something else?

Rebecca Whitman 15:00

I think your purpose is different than a relationship. Okay? With a higher power, your purpose can be anything. And actually, I have a free guide on my website, Rebecca Elizabeth whitman.com. And that the guide is called Find Your meaningful and magnetic purpose. But yeah, purpose to me is what you're put on this earth to do what lights you up what your mission is, and spiritual. I mean, it could tie into your spirituality, but I feel like the two don't have to be connected this can be its own separate relationship.

Philip Pape 15:40

Okay, no, I love that. So let's focus on the second pillar, which which I know we wanted to get into today, the physical and your personal philosophy of fitness. I think in our we had a text conversation and you mentioned the term H and M, to refer to hydration, nutrition, movement and meditation. So again, frameworks, I love it, you know, the acronyms and letters and all that. So the fact that you start with hydration is very interesting. But just tell us more about this overall philosophy. And we get into details.

Rebecca Whitman 16:08

Yeah, I believe in h&m, not the discount store. Although I do love the discount store. Like you said, hydration, nutrition, movement meditation. So hydration is everything. I'm actually drinking my water right now. And it's got phytonutrients and electrolytes in it. That's another thing, I promote a brand for health and wellness. And I believe hydration is so critical for just everything. One of the things that I do, as soon as I wake up is I drink lemon water, at least 16 ounces, and I have some electrolytes in that. And then I will have I do I do participate in caffeine, I'm not gonna say, which makes hydration even more important. So I believe that we should be drinking half our weight in ounces of water. I don't think the water has to be plain, I'm all about like putting extra supplements to jazz it up. But yeah, 90 ounces of water is so important, especially if you are taking a lot of supplements. And especially if you're working out because the body needs that water to process everything through. I didn't even drink a lot of water, like growing up, it wasn't a thing. Now all these kids are walking everywhere with their water bottles, and there's water bottle stickers, and everyone's like be hydrated. But it does make a great difference to me and my health and just in my skin. How I feel. So that's the first Yeah,

Philip Pape 17:44

let's just focus on that for a second. The fact you put it first is is kind of innovative because most most people don't write it, they'll put it in, they'll kind of put it as an afterthought. And I have clients all the time who say, you know, I'm hungry this week, or, or a client recently and said, You know, I started drinking more like you suggested and my energy is better is that a thing and it's absolutely like your body needs water for everything it does every function you can imagine. And the electrolytes is also good because people do drink a lot of caffeine. And if they can maybe complement that with a glass of water with some lemon and salt or electrolytes, it's gonna make a huge difference. And then your skin right, especially for ladies, you know, I know, I know, everybody skin is important, but you know, women tend to focus on that. So starting with hydration, very innovative. I just wanted to point that out, and they'll let you continue with the nutrition.

Rebecca Whitman 18:29

Yeah, and I love putting electrolytes in my water because a lot of us are mineral deficient, because our farmlands are depleted of minerals. So even though they're doing the same crops year in and year out, there's less and less minerals that the crops are garnering from the soil. So yeah, I'm all about electrolytes in the water.

Philip Pape 18:51

Well, let me let me ask about that. Which electrolytes do you find is magnesium high on the list? Would you say like which electrolytes do we find are most efficient? And how do you address those with with the electrolytes and also do you get it from fruit for example?

Rebecca Whitman 19:06

Yeah, well, I actually there's a product. It's got all the electrolytes magnesium is one of them. Plus it has Silla jet. Do you know what that is? I actually don't. It's a new superfood. It's it's like resin that they scrape off of caves in the Himalayas. Interesting. gives you energy naturally. So it's got electrolytes and she loves it and it I also use a brand called trace minerals. I put that in my lemon water, and they have just a general mineral formula and then they have one with fulvic acid. I also put molecular hydrogen on my water sometimes too. If I'm at a restaurant, I have little molecular hydrogen pills that I'll drop in the water to just again, jazz it up make it more exciting. Electric molecular Hi Hydrogen is really good for just cellular function, energy clarity. The next is nutrition. I am a believer in the Mediterranean diet, which is the blue zone diet. It's a low inflammation diet. It's a lot of vegetables, fish eggs, and I don't eat meat. I don't eat gluten. I don't eat dairy. And I don't eat. I mean up their sugar and everything naturally. I don't eat things with a lot of sugar. Though

Philip Pape 20:35

the Mediterranean diet does have lean meats in there for just completeness. Yeah. Okay.

Rebecca Whitman 20:39

For those who want to eat lean meats, it is in there. Yeah, absolutely. So that diet has really worked for me. I didn't do well, on the high fat, low carb diet, I actually blew up my gallbladder and needed an emergency gallbladder removal, because I was doing like too much fat. So I don't think that works for everybody. So I don't like avoid fat, I have avocados. And sometimes I'll have gi but I don't like put fat on my coffee every day or do that. Yeah,

Philip Pape 21:18

and then we talk about nutrition all the time here, you've got to find something that works for you. And even though no one diet can be proclaimed perfect for any one person, the Mediterranean diet definitely leans toward kind of the whole food health matrix, you know, the whole food matrix getting all your nutrients in there. So it's pretty solid. Yeah.

Rebecca Whitman 21:36

And I like what Dr. Gundry says that food is just a delivery system for olive oil. So I think that is that is that is the healthy fat that I can tolerate. So the next M is for movement. I changed my workout. When I hit menopause, I was doing HIIT training that was like, cardio, two minutes of weights and two minutes is sprinting on the treadmill. And I would walk back to my car just like in a puddle of sweat. I you know, it was a lot. And I did that for a long time. And then I, I hit menopause. And I changed it up because I studied it. And it's like, you're not supposed to work out that hard as you did like, as a youngster like so now I do HIIT training, but it's, it's with a gym franchise that you probably know Phillip called f 45. And they have like more resistance training. And it's still hit, you still do stations with you know, a few seconds of rest in between sets. But it's I do more the weight resistance days. And then I do that three days a week, I also walk my dog every single day. My goal is 5000 steps. I don't hit it every day. But that's my intention to hit it. I do yoga, once a week. And then I play tennis a couple of times a week for cardio. It's a game called live ball where there's a lot of running around a tennis court. So I really believe for fitness, it should be a combination of strength, flexibility and cardio. And I feel like I'm hitting all those things.

Philip Pape 23:22

I agree we you know, people are listening, and they always wonder like, what's the best program for them? Or how should they do it and like you said it, first of all can change with your life. Like when you said you had menopause you know, the energy needs change, and your capabilities change and all this other stuff. But also, you got to enjoy it. I mean, you've gotta have to enjoy it. You know, if you're if you're walking, walk out in nature with your dog, if you you know, if you want to be flexible or have some mindfulness yoga, or stretching or whatever works for you. And then throwing in some fun activities in there like tennis is great. So it's a good reminder to folks to to keep it well rounded and do what works for you.

23:56

The most value that I got from this was the fact that I had someone that I could talk to about anything and that there was going to be no judgement, it was just Well, here are your goals, here's the best way that you're going to achieve it. And then let's work together to help you feel inspired and motivated to do that. And a lot of people out there trying to be coaches and not all of them have done the work and also just be a genuine person that is positive and coming from the heart in terms of wanting to help and Phillip really embodied all of those qualities I would recommend him to just about anyone that's looking to achieve goals in that realm of their nutrition and building new habits.

Rebecca Whitman 24:41

I am a big believer of ClassPass before I joined F 45 I call myself a gym slet because I had a DD and I didn't want to like just go to the same gym and do the same workout all the time. I used to do before I really studied and understood how important weight Training was, I was the I called it my super model workout, 45 minutes of cardio on this on the step mill, or the bike, and then 15 minutes of stretching and abs, and I was doing absolutely no strength. And then I realized, wow, you can actually get leaner, and hotter. If you lift weights, it doesn't mean you're gonna like bulk up and be this bodybuilder if you lift weights, and that really changed my whole physique when I started lifting weights. And now, I'm 52 and I'm in the best shape of my life because I have incorporated weight. So that's why another reason I love the title of your podcast Wits & Weights, because weight training really changed my life.

Philip Pape 25:44

I mean, Rebecca, we are all over that. And it's a message that has to get out there for men men know it kind of but but you're right women, it's like a different approach. And you just think about what it takes to get bulky, like a man to get bulky. It's a lot of work, it would be, you know, usually on drugs too. But not often women are not going to get bulky. Like if you if you have that lean, strong physique. That's where it comes from. And guess what you get to eat more food, you don't have to be dieting, you know, you can be more functional, capable for the other things, the list goes on and on. So I always love to hear that it's a great message.

Rebecca Whitman 26:16

And I do have a cheat day. Friday is my cheat day. I call it fun food Friday. And I can eat anything I want. But I feel like even though I can have a total cheat day, I still still doing like, my cheat will be like, you know, a vegan, gluten free piece of cheesecake. But it'll still be like within the parameters. But I could, you know, it's nice to know that on one day, I can eat anything I want. So that's the the fitness strategy. And if I don't work out in the morning, it's not happening. So I believe in doing it first thing in the morning. It builds my confidence. It gives me that cocktail of feel good hormones, serotonin, dopamine and endorphins. And it's just a great way to start my day.

Philip Pape 27:03

Yeah, you know, let's hold on that because it's interesting, I used to be very agnostic about that. You'll find out I'm the kind of guy who like, I want to please everyone. So you know, I'll just kind of be agnostic on things. The morning versus the evening training, you know, the evidence shows that ultimately, whatever works for you works for you. And that, you know, afternoon training was shown to be a slightly better for lifting. But it turns out that morning training has tremendous amount of other benefits, like you mentioned, related to your cortisol, other hormones, the endorphins, also your mood, like so many things that probably far outweigh any other little benefit evening training has, again, you have to do what works for you, right. But I do want the listener to know that if they haven't tried training in the morning, and they're like, oh, I don't want to get up early and just do it. Just do it for like a week or two and see, see how it makes you feel.

Rebecca Whitman 27:52

It used to be really hard for me to get up early and train, I would work out at like a 930 or 10 o'clock class. And then I married a morning person. And we work out together we lift weights three days a week, he likes to work out at 530. I like to work out at 930. So we met in the middle and now I work out at like 730 or eight. And because of that I can do intermittent fasting and have a fasted workout. And that's also very controversial. I know, some people say you should have protein first thing in the morning before your workout. But I feel like I do a pre workout drink. And that gives me a lot of energy. And then I go to the gym and lift weights and and then I have breakfast afterwards. That's when I have my protein. And it really, it's been really working for me. I really like having a fasted workout. Cool.

Philip Pape 28:40

Yeah, it depends on what works for you. So if it works for you, because I've had I've had clients who I'll have them try training fed. And they're like, this just doesn't work as well. I think I'll say like eight out of 10 people seem to do better when they start eating but then you know, others will find the other. So it really depends. I don't know. Yeah, really? Yeah,

Rebecca Whitman 29:03

it really depends. And if I workout later in the morning, I do need to eat because I get hungry during the workout. Good feeling. So that's the H hydration and nutrient nutrition, M is movement. The other M is meditation. And that is mindfulness. So you can get that during a yoga class. I really like a guided meditation app called Insight Timer. I'm sure a lot of your listeners have listened to it. There's millions of people on there. And on Insight Timer app. Depending on how much time I have if I have anywhere from one minute to 45 minutes, I can find a meditation that works within that parameter and just set up the meditation with my air pods and just listen and just relax and I really enjoy guided meditation because you can have some with affirmations for abundance or confidence or whatever it is that you're working on. And you can find that guided meditation and it's kinda like reprogramming your mind on a subconscious level. And I gotta be honest, a lot of times I just fall asleep. But that's okay too, because I know that it's working on a subconscious level.

Philip Pape 30:16

I was joking with people about active mind syndrome, right? A lot of us just, we cannot shut the mind off. Even when we try to meditate. It's like, we get distracted. Do you have thoughts on that? I know, I've always heard the advice is just just keep doing it. You know, you'll get used to it. And it's okay. Even if you do have thoughts, like, it's all okay, but what are your thoughts on that?

Rebecca Whitman 30:34

I think of our thoughts as watching cars drive down the highway. And if you can learn to like say, oh, you know, I'm thinking about, you know, what I'm gonna have for dinner, I'm thinking about what that person said to me at work or whatever, like, and just name it, then you can detach from it. But the whole point for me of meditation is detaching from my thoughts and realizing I am not my thoughts, you know, I have a soul that is connected to the divine. And it's tapping into that again that relationship which is the first pillar of spirituality, and not getting caught up in my thoughts because I used to think I am my thoughts, I am my emotions, but I am more than that. And so are you love it?

Philip Pape 31:21

I love it. So like cars driving by I've heard the leaves floating on the river, right? Kind of just going by and you look at them and you detach from them is what you're saying. So that's beautiful. You mentioned your morning training, both the spirituality and the journaling. You mentioned fitness, was there anything else in the morning routine that you wanted to share?

Rebecca Whitman 31:43

I do too. It's a lot. I do take my supplements in the morning. I take a liquid collagen, totally obsessed with it. It's liquid collagen and hyaluronic acid. And it has completely changed my muscles, my joints, my my strength. It's really changed everything. That product I take first thing in the morning I take glutathione

Philip Pape 32:07

does. Let me quit. Quick question about that one. Does it happen to have curcumin or anything like that as well? Or do you know

Rebecca Whitman 32:12

the collagen? I don't think it I don't think the version I take does just curious. I take a glutathione in the morning, I take NAD and I take d H E A in the morning. And then I drink my lemon water. And then after that I will have coffee or tea I go back and forth. And I'll while I'm having my coffee or tea I will do my morning practice which is writing in my abundance journal, reading from a couple of spiritual books and doing a little bit of prayer meditation and and then I'm off to the gym.

Philip Pape 32:53

Now what about people who say, Oh, I can't find the time, you know, and I can't do I can't devote every morning to this whole ritual. Because I'm sure.

Rebecca Whitman 33:03

Yeah, it doesn't take that much time. I mean, taking my supplements, a lot of people say I don't have time to take supplements. But really, it takes like two minutes once you get it as part of your routine. Making the lemon water takes another couple of minutes. I don't do the lemon like premade I actually squeeze the lemon. I don't think it takes more than 20 minutes to do everything. The supplements making my coffee or tea sitting down writing. I mean I've I've got it down to 20 minutes at the most so I don't have like a two or three hour elaborate morning routine because I'm I'm to Taipei I'm too busy. I want to get on to the next thing. And I also really love sleep. That's another thing that is really important to my fitness that isn't an h&m, maybe I should call it h n h and m s because that sleep oh my god, like when I have seven or eight hours of sleep. I can function at such a higher level if I if I dip to even six hours of sleep and I know everybody's different. I just don't feel as good. Yeah,

Philip Pape 34:15

that is massive. And it's true. Everybody's different. And some people make excuses for being different. Like you know what I'm saying? Like they'll say well, I'm the kind that can get by on five, five and a half hours of sleep. And I kind of call BS on that usually like we'll try getting two more hours. This even tells me that it doesn't make a difference. It's funny because I I was getting consistently six and a half hours and I knew it wasn't enough and I have an aura ring to that kind of helps. But then then after I had surgery for my rotator cuff in the summer and I started sleeping more just because I couldn't train as much and I shifted an extra half hour that's all it was. And to this day I kept that extra half hour and that made all the difference. Like you go from like 45 minutes a deep sleep to like an hour and a half of deep Sleep just from that little extra change. And the other thing is I'm a big fan of like sleep hacks. I don't know, if you have things like a sleep mask or blue blocker glasses or like blackout curtains, do you have any kind of hacks that you'd like to use for sleep quality?

Rebecca Whitman 35:12

The only hack, and this is a really tough one for people is not to bring my cell phone to the bed. That is a boundary that I set with myself. It's a hard one because I'm addicted to my phone like everybody else is. But I'm just like, I'm just not going to bring my cell phone into the bed. Because I don't want to look at the blue light right before I go to bed. And I turned my cell phone to airplane mode.

Philip Pape 35:41

Because there's like, yeah, all the notifications. Oh, you mean the EMG? Yeah, like some

Rebecca Whitman 35:47

frequency that's not good for your on a cellular level. Yeah, when the internet and everything and all the Wi Fi is going through your phone. I also keep my phone in another room. I don't keep it right next to my bed. So those are some of my you

Philip Pape 36:02

know, there's something to that with the electromagnetic waves, right? Because we got a new microwave like a year ago that leaks compared to our last microwave. And you could tell because it starts to interfere with Bluetooth and Wi Fi when devices near it. And you're like, Oh, this is good. You know, this is good. But they're all in the similar frequencies. So that kind of tells you something. We think microwave radiation is super dangerous, right? If you get exposed, right. So that's that's funny. Another thing related to fitness that you shared in the text we were talking about, I think was the hiatus you took from tennis. And then you wanted to talk a little bit about that. You took a 25 year hiatus playing? Yeah, okay. Tell us about that. Yeah,

Rebecca Whitman 36:37

I was really burned out on tennis. Because, again, I did not have a spiritual awakening until I was 20 years old. I thought that if I wanted tennis, I was a worthwhile human being. And if I lost a tennis I was not a worthwhile human being and hitting a second serve. And a third set, tiebreaker was like am my body the same as like, you know, jumping out of the way of a freight train, like it was just really putting my adrenals into overload. And it just wasn't fun anymore. And it was a really tough decision. But I got into Princeton to play on their tennis team. And then I quit after my sophomore year. And I went to Italy, and I realized they had a whole different philosophy of life. It was like a two hour lunch. And everybody was in a good mood. And they're living like to enjoy life, not just to get results and to win and to get accomplishments. And I was like, I don't want to play tennis anymore. So I came back from that junior year abroad, I quit the tennis team. And then I didn't pick up a racket for 25 years, I was just into working out taking classes. I was like, I don't want to do competition. I'm over it. And then a friend of mine asked me to hit with him a high school friend that happened to me living in LA. And I did and I had fun. And then I found out about this fun game of women playing in the park. And I had to remind myself like okay, this is like a bunch of middle aged women playing in a park I do not need to like get stressed out like this is the finals of Wimbledon or something. So I had to like really work on calming my my sense of competition down so I can enjoy it. And I made friends with everyone. And it's I've been playing ever since and getting better ever since. So I play like once or twice a week and, and it's been a lot of fun to have a fitness activity that I'm that I'm really good at. And I also feel connected to my younger self, you know, a teenage version of myself that I've kind of like left behind. I've reconnected with that part of myself. And it's been really healing.

Philip Pape 38:52

I love that story of rediscovery because you don't just because something you had a bad experience connected with something doesn't mean that that that thing was the cause of it, per se, right. It was other factors of how you approach that back in your younger days. I had another guest on recently was a runner, similar experience. He was like, burned out from running marathons. He was in the Boston Marathon, all that when he was younger, took a break came back to it older and wiser and was like, just gonna, like, take it easy. Have fun with it, you know, like, really enjoy it. So people can learn a lot from that. And I guess anyone listening who, who feels stressed out by something that they're doing doesn't have to be that way, right? You're saying it's

Rebecca Whitman 39:30

gonna be fun. Like, that's the whole point of fitness. Like, who wants to do it if it's not going to be fun? Yeah.

Philip Pape 39:35

And it's funny with lifting weights. A lot of people will say, Well, yeah, I don't really like lifting weights. And when you look at the mode that they lift with, you find that it may not be for them, like the way that they live. Let's say they're lifting, they're doing 10 movements, and they're doing a circuit style, and they're just sweating and hate it, you know, and they like, Well, why don't we just lift really heavy but you only have to do these three things and with all this rest period, and all that sounds hard to and then they do it like, wait a minute, this is fun, because it's not associated with the negative things about lifting that I had before. Anyway, I'm rambling here, but with the pillars, we talked about quite a bit about physical, which of the others would you say, contributes the most or you'd like to talk about relative to physical fitness. So once you have the physical stuff kind of dialed in, does it then really enhance one of the others more, or just one of the others, if you work on it really enhance your physical fitness?

Rebecca Whitman 40:29

I think the fitness really enhances the emotions. Because when you are feeling fit and strong, you are just happier you're confident you. And that affects romance, because you are going to be more attractive to the opposite sex when you're feeling fit and strong and comfortable in your body. So I would say those two and also I mean, they're all connected to fitness, because also money. You know, when you feel like you've done a really hard workout, and you lifted heavy weights, and you've really challenged your body, you're like, wow, that's the hardest thing I have to do today, like having that Zoom or having that meeting is, is going to be easier than lifting that heavy weight. So I feel like it really fitness affects all the areas. And that's why it's, you know, the second pillar, because it affects all the areas and I believe that you should schedule your workout on Sunday night, schedule your workouts and prioritize and make your your week work around your fitness and body before business. And if you don't have the money to go to a fancy gym or hire a celebrity trainer, like Philip, you can just walk. There's so many videos on YouTube, like during the pandemic, Amazon sold out of weights, because everybody was just doing weight training at home and on YouTube, there's so many ways to work out if you really, really want to do it. So whether you have the financial means or not, if you really want to do it, I mean, you could just do walking and push ups and sit ups like anything you can do to move your body is it's just so worth it. And another thing, a huge hack that I'm going to share with your audience that changed my life is having affirmations with your weight training. So if you're doing weight training, and you're bored, you can combine having affirmations with your weight training. Like I am enough, I have enough, I am willing to set myself free. And that is called an incantation. And that is something I learned from Tony Robbins that really reprograms your mind on a deeper level. When you combine affirmations with physical movement, there's so

Philip Pape 42:51

much that I love so first of all, you have a couple of what my friend Carla called notable quotables that I'm gonna mention here. One was, make your week work around your fitness. I love that. I love that so much. Because the biggest excuse is consistency in time. Like I don't have time for him. Like if this is the most important thing for you, you're gonna have time for it. And other things are much less important and shouldn't even exist. Not not shouldn't exist, but they won't exist without your fitness. The other thing you said is body before business. That's a good I'm sure you said that before because it came right off here. rolled off your tongue body before business. Not having financial excuses. Like you know, big box gyms are pretty dirt cheap. Like, I mean, maybe this is gonna sound inappropriate. But I've heard how homeless people will get a membership at a big box gym big ticket their showers, because it's the cheapest way to go. You know what I mean? Like, yeah,

Rebecca Whitman 43:41

yeah, 10 or 20 bucks a month. Yeah, so

Philip Pape 43:43

that shouldn't be an excuse. And then the affirmations are their weight training. That's an interesting one. My friend and former client, Alan and I always talk about how lifting is a form of mindfulness, especially if you turn off the music, right? If you're doing it like especially if you're in a home gym, and it's very quiet. Just getting under a heavy squat can be a form of, you can't think of anything else, the thoughts go away, and you're just focused on the activity and you're breathing and you're bracing. So the folks listening like this is kind of a form of habit stacking, right, doing multiple things at once and getting the most out of it. I love it. I just wanted to comment on that. But yeah, so you also mentioned resilience, like when you work out hard, you feel confident. I think that's a really important message too. So when we talk about developing resilience, because that's another topic you you talk about, is that is that one of the important ways to do it, or how does it align with the different ways we develop resilience against obstacles? Well, weight training

Rebecca Whitman 44:38

is resilience training, you have to break down the muscle before it can get stronger. So I think of certain people in my life that has that have caused me a lot of financial or emotional train pain as trainers, right? They broke me down financially and I had to figure out how to build my financial reserves. have backup or they broke me down emotionally, they hurt me. And they were like an emotional trainer for me. So it's a way to think of pain differently. I think. In the gym, we understand our relationship with pain, we know that no pain, no gain, if it doesn't challenge me, it doesn't change me. And we understand that there is some pain and getting in shape. But when it comes to life, we don't want to feel any pain. We will shop we will gamble, we will have sex we will, you know, do anything drink use drugs, not to feel pain, but it's the same thing in life. You know, pain is not to be feared. Because pain will teach you something and challenge you and it will, it will sculpt your soul the way the weights sculpt your body. So yeah, don't be scared of pain. And, and if you meditate, you know that you're not your emotions. So it's okay to feel the painful emotions, and then let them just pass through you. Bringing

Philip Pape 46:00

us back to spiritual, right? Like I love it. It all ties together. All right. So I know we're almost out on time here. But is there a question that you wish I had asked? And if so, what is your answer?

Rebecca Whitman 46:13

Oh, my God, you're so funny. I don't know you. This has been a very thorough interview, I think you've covered everything. I would just like to tell your listeners how lucky you are to be able to work out. Like you get to listen to a fitness podcast like Philips you get to learn about working out and diet and fitness. Because there's so many people in the world that physically cannot work out. They just don't have the strength or the wellness to be able to even work out. So the fact that we're even in this conversation is so like fortunate and we're so blessed. So I think if you think of your workout as a blessing, and something you get to do, rather than you have to do, it will change everything in your fitness like it is such a privilege to be able to move your body and workout that so many people would just only dream about.

Philip Pape 47:17

I love it your workouts a blessing. It's a privilege, something you get to do. This is this has been beautiful there. We did cover a lot. And I love where the conversation went. So I appreciate your time here. Where can listeners learn more about you and your work?

Rebecca Whitman 47:31

Yeah, so I would love to give you guys that abundance journal that has absolutely changed my life. And that will be in my link tree link. I also have a lot of fun events coming up. I have elegant Warrior Training starting mid January, right about when this podcast is coming out. We're starting a class where every week for seven weeks, we're going to do a deep dive into the seven pillars and give you tips, tools and strategies to get that area of your life to a level 10. We are going to help you overcome limiting beliefs and just slay all your goals for the new year. So I highly recommend that you message me or set up a breakthrough call. That's another thing. In my link tree you can set up a breakthrough call. I only open three spots a week in my schedule, and I give you free coaching for 30 minutes on how to get unstuck. And yeah, I would love to keep in touch with you through my website Rebecca Elizabeth whitman.com, or my Instagram clubhouse, Twitter threads. It's all Rebecca E. Whitman. And all of that will be shared in the show notes. So I look forward to staying in touch with all of you guys.

Philip Pape 48:45

You got it. It'll be in the show notes, even external the events, the website, the ID, all of it. And again, thank you so much for your time. super valuable listeners, I'm sure turn learned a ton from today. So thank you, Rebecca.

Rebecca Whitman 48:56

Thank you, Philip.

Philip Pape 48:59

Philip Pape 1/9/24 Philip Pape 1/9/24

Ep 136: How to Maintain a Lean Physique Year-Round (Without Cuts or Bulks)

How do you transition out of a dieting phase to maintain your results? Do you keep cycling between cutting and bulking? Or can you live at maintenance for a while, and if so, how do you do it effectively? In this episode, Philip shares a proven blueprint to effortlessly transition out of a fat loss phase or an intense cut into a sustainable maintenance phase so you can recover from the deficit as quickly as possible, optimize your performance without going to extremes, and lock in your hard-earned lean physique year-round.

In this episode, Philip (@witsandweights) shares a proven blueprint to effortlessly transition out of a fat loss phase or an intense cut into a sustainable maintenance phase so you can recover from the deficit as quickly as possible, optimize your performance without going to extremes, and lock in your hard-earned lean physique year-round.

Maintenance is a critical but often overlooked fitness phase, especially when transitioning from a fat-loss period. Even though cuts and bulks are often emphasized for those going after body composition changes, sometimes living at maintenance is the best option to sustain an optimal physique and performance level that has already been achieved. Maintenance allows for metabolic recovery from a calorie deficit. Athletes who rely on a particular strength-to-weight ratio should avoid the extreme changes that come with cuts and bulks, and sustaining an ideal physique year-round provides its form of consistency.

Episode summary:

Achieving and maintaining a lean physique throughout the year is a common goal for many fitness enthusiasts. It's an admirable pursuit that often becomes entangled with the complications of strict dieting and the frustrating yo-yo effect of weight fluctuations.

The discussion opened with an important focus on the transition from a dieting phase to a sustainable maintenance phase. This is a crucial period where individuals often struggle. The mindset shift required during this phase is not insignificant; it demands a psychological adjustment that acknowledges the importance of a balanced lifestyle over the allure of extreme dieting. It's not just about hitting your target weight but learning how to sustain it without the need for continuous cycles of cutting and bulking.

Nutrition and training strategies were dissected in detail, with an emphasis on metabolic recovery and performance optimization. Listeners were provided with practical advice on how to navigate the common pitfalls that can derail maintenance efforts. One of the pivotal aspects of this transition is understanding how to adjust macronutrient intake to support long-term leanness. It involves fine-tuning the balance of proteins, carbohydrates, and fats in a way that complements the body's energy requirements and supports hormonal balance.

One of the more technical discussions in the episode revolved around the concept of the 'top side of maintenance.' This approach encourages individuals to slightly overshoot maintenance calories to facilitate metabolic recovery and avoid accidental deficits. This strategy, combined with monitoring biofeedback and energy levels, ensures proper recovery and helps maintain an optimal body composition.

The psychological hurdles that accompany the increase in calorie intake post-dieting cannot be understated. The initial weight fluctuations due to water retention can be disheartening, but understanding the physiological changes that occur during this period can help maintain perspective. It's essential to trust the process and recognize that these changes are part of the body's natural equilibrium process.

Training strategies, including the pros and cons of fasted training, were also explored. The podcast provided nuanced advice on how to approach training during a maintenance phase, emphasizing the importance of protein intake throughout the day and discussing the benefits of supplements like creatine monohydrate.

In conclusion, the episode emphasized the importance of a holistic approach to fitness, one that incorporates physical abundance as part of a broader philosophy of abundance in life. It's not just about reaching fitness goals; it's about empowering overall well-being and living a balanced, strong, and abundant life.

Today, you’ll learn all about:

3:07 What inspired this episode
7:21 What is maintenance, and why is it important?
10:16 Psychological shift to maintenance
16:06 The physiology of maintenance
20:19 Setting calories and macros for maintenance
24:32 Jumping to your maintenance calories
27:41 Weekly adjustments
31:53 Structuring your nutrition around your workout
35:01 Two advanced strategies
38:44 Five common pitfalls during maintenance
49:34 Outro

Episode Resources:

Free Rapid Fat Loss Guide
MacroFactor app – use code WITSANDWEIGHTS to extend your free trial to two weeks (and support me and this show!)
Ep 96: Why Reverse Dieting Doesn't Work Like You Think (and What to Do Instead)
Ep 116: 7 Lessons from My Rapid Fat Loss Micro-Cut (Aggressive Dieting is Not for Everyone!)
Ep 126: More Carbs, More Muscle (Why Low-Carb and Keto Are Keeping You Skinny Fat)

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Get notified of new episodes. Use your favorite podcast platform or one of the buttons below. Then hit “Subscribe” or “Follow” and you’re good to go!

Transcript

Philip Pape 00:00

How do you transition out of a dieting phase to maintain your results, you finally reached your fat loss goal. And now what to keep that hard earned lean physique without overshooting and gaining a bunch of weight or fat? Do you keep cycling between cutting and bulking? Or can you live in maintenance for a while? And if so, how do you do it effectively? Today, I'll share with you an evidence based approach to help you seamlessly transition out of an intense or prolonged calorie deficit, so you can sustain your physique and optimize your performance. We'll get into everything you need to know including mindset metrics, nutrition, training, and common pitfalls so you can master maintenance with confidence. Maybe your goal is to stay photoshoot shredded year round, to maximize your strength to weight ratio as an athlete or just enjoy your results without going straight into a bulk and gaining more fat. Either way, you'll learn in this episode, How To sustain your results for the long term. Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in. Wits & Weights community Welcome to another solo episode of the Wits & Weights podcast in our last episode 135 The truth about testosterone for women's health with Karen Martel. Karen was back to chat about the role of testosterone and women's health and vitality who might benefit from testosterone therapy, common questions related to the benefits, safety, dosage and much more today for episode 136. How to maintain a lean physique year round. Without cuts or bulks. I'm equipping you with a blueprint to effortlessly transition out of a fat loss phase or an intense cut into a sustainable maintenance phase so that you can recover quickly from the deficit as quickly as possible. Optimize your performance without going to extremes and lock in your heart and lean physique year round. Maintenance is a critical but often overlooked phase of fitness. It's kind of sounds boring, just staying where you are. But it's very important especially when transitioning from a fat loss period. And even though we often emphasize cuts and bulks for those going after body composition changes, sometimes living at maintenance. What you've heard called the magic of maintenance is the best option when you're looking to sustain an optimal physique and performance level that you've already worked hard to achieve. Maintenance allows for metabolic recovery from that calorie deficit. And for example, athletes who rely on a particular strength to weight ratio might want to avoid extreme changes that come with cuts and bulks. And honestly sustaining an ideal physique year round provides its own form of predictability and consistency. Now, I'll be honest, I wasn't even considering doing an episode about maintenance because it's not that sexy of a topic. But one of our listeners, Neal reached out to me last month on Instagram at Wits & Weights and he inspired this episode, I'd like to read what he sent me because, you know, he made some good points. It inspired the episode and I thought many of you who listened to the show would relate to them. He said quote, hi Philip. I recently found your podcast and I'm really loving it. I have successfully used a high protein macro factor tracking flexible dieting approach to achieve about 10 to 12% body fat, and I'm 50 years old congrats me on that. I do strength training and nutrition to help achieve my athletic goals in rock climbing where I perform at a relatively high level. One thing I've noticed in the fitness industry is that about 70% of nutrition discussion focuses on fat loss, and 30% focuses on bulking however, pretty much 0% is focused on maintenance. This is unfortunate because the performance period of many athletes is best when they are consuming maintenance level calories. In addition, I imagine that most people find a body composition that they are happy with. But there's almost no information how to maintain this composition. Through combining exercise and nutrition over long periods of time. I believe many people would like to go from cut to maintenance rather than to a bulk. However, I found this is not easy. I would love to hear more discussion about what happens to the body after going from a cut to maintenance. How can we make this transition psychologically? How can we expect our body to adapt? Can we expect some weight gain or loss during this transition? What are people's experience with this? I would love to hear you discuss this on your podcast. I assume you have a lot of experience with maintenance periods and I think your audience would love to hear about how you program in maintenance for clients. Awesome,

Philip Pape 04:48

awesome question. I'm so glad you asked me that Neil. And that's what this episode is all about. And if you're listening thank you first of all for listening to the show and supporting it, but also for bringing this up and inspiring the episode. I just hope I do it justice for you and that you find it helpful. My personal experience is that there are often more psychological, more mental challenges than anything when it comes to staying at maintenance, especially for those of us who are always chasing that next goal. So I'll be covering all of those aspects today those in the physical ones as well. Of course, by the way, today's episode is brought to you by Wits. &. Weights nutrition coaching, yes, I'm promoting myself because this show is completely ad free. So why not? I started Wits & Weights to help people who want to build muscle lose fat, who want to look like they lift. And if that's you, if that resonates with you, my one on one coaching focused on engineering your physique and body composition is for you. If you want expert guidance and want to get results faster, easier, with fewer frustrations along the way to actually look like you live, just go to wits & weights.com/coaching, or use the link in my show notes to apply. I'll ask you a few short questions to decide if we're a good fit. And if we aren't, we'll get you started this week. And by the way, I don't keep anything secret. I don't hide anything behind my program. If you go to wits, & weights.com/coaching, you can watch a video where I walk you through the entire process. And then when you apply I'll be fully upfront about the price. I'll answer any questions, you have no high pressure sales calls, no funnels, nothing like that, because I don't like that stuff. And I'll be honest, though, if you're new to this podcast, you might want to check out some of my other episodes first to get to know me and make sure I'm a good fit for you. Because there are a lot of nutrition coaches out there. There's a ton if you've if you follow social media, and you've got to like and trust the person that you are going to work with. One other thing you can do is step into our Facebook community and ask others what they think and get a vibe for the community and my style of coaching. And then the last thing is if you want a world class education in personalized nutrition, without the cost of going to college or dozens of courses, coaching could be perfect tea for you because I take a very education centric approach. So you'll learn a ton in the process. So if you're driven to learn if you have a high level of curiosity, if you love to take action to improve your health, I think you'll love working with me again, just go to wits & weights.com/coaching to apply or click the link in my show notes. Alright, with that, let's get into today's topic, the blueprints for maintaining a lean physique year round, without cuts, or books. Let's start with what is maintenance. And why is the maintenance phase. So important? First, if you don't know what I'm talking about, maintenance simply refers to eating the same amount of calories you burn, so that you maintain your weight, you don't gain weight, you don't lose weight, your maintenance calories. A maintenance phase, or what we might call living at maintenance for the long term, or even months or even years is meant to sustain the physique and performance level that you achieved during a cut. Okay, fat loss phase. So if you've never gone through a muscle building phase, and then a subsequent fat loss phase are cut to improve your body composition, maintenance probably won't be very helpful other than to achieve body re composition for individuals who are new to lifting or returning from a long absence or as a prep phase for a fat loss phase. So today's episode is not really about body recomp and maintenance for beginners, but rather shifting from cutting to maintenance so that you can sustain your results. Now, it's still relevant to everyone listening because all of you want to get to that point. And it will happen pretty quickly if you you know, follow the advice we talked about on the show. Other athletes like athletes, or other populations, like athletes might find this relevant as well for sure, just like Neil, who wrote in about, you know, being a rock climber. So really anyone coming out of a fat loss phase is going to benefit from this discussion. The question is, why is it beneficial? Alright, one reason maintenance is helpful is it prevents having to plan for and endure and constantly tweak and go through these constant cycles of cutting and bulking some people just don't want to do that and constantly be gaining and losing weight. Maintenance also allows you to consolidate your progress and kind of stay there and celebrate it and hold on to it for a while rather than what might seem like undoing your fat loss. So to speak during a subsequent bulk you're not you're not really going to undo your fat loss, you're going to use a bulk to build muscle but many people have that perception and if you feel more comfortable in it and maintenance first this could be a reason why it's also helpful like I mentioned before, for athletes who are in say, weight class sports or fitness competitors, models, actors, essentially anyone wanting to stay lean long term without driving themselves crazy with the big changes that come with cuts and bolts. And again, I don't doesn't drive me crazy to do those things. Lots of us love to go through that those cycles but many of you don't want to do that or don't need to or need to stay at maintenance for other reasons. All right. So to recap a maintenance phase avoids the yo yo effect of body composition. It prevents your metabolic adaptation from going Going up and down all the time, right. So you can say relatively consistent with your expenditure. It improves hormones and energy because you're not in a deficit. So this is really important when we talk about energy availability. And then it cultivates a constant or consistent diet and training lifestyle. So that's the that's sort of the intro to maintenance. Now, let's talk about the psychological shift to maintenance, because this is probably the thing that holds people up the most. Transitioning to maintenance, after you worked really hard in a calorie deficit, can be mentally taxing. In fact, I've had clients who work with me, for the sole purpose of getting to that point of what it's like to successfully come out of a diet into maintenance, really, like on the call when we talk, they're like, Yeah, I want to lose fat. But really, I want to learn what it takes to come out of fat loss and not be scared of gaining weight, or actually gaining weight, and repeating the cycle I've done in the past. So you listening to this, my dear listener may experience this fear of regaining weight, or too much fat if you increase those calories, especially after you've been in a prolonged deficit. And it almost feels counterintuitive, right after you've dieted down for so long. So what I want you to understand is that a calorie increase to get back to maintenance, combined with smart training is absolutely 100% necessary to sustain your long term leanness, because we don't want to stay in a diet, that's a fact. So the only thing that's not a diet is at least being back to maintenance. Now, remember, you are not going into a surplus by eating more, you're simply coming out of a low energy state of a calorie deficit and returning to a state where you will not lose or gain weight. So just wrap your head around, right is that you're not, you're not over eating, to come to maintenance, you are stopping the under eating, it's a difference. So give yourself permission to eat more, while trusting the process. And hopefully going through this episode and referring to it again in the future will help you do that. Avoid thinking in extremes or getting anxious over small changes. It's really about being patient, controlling what you can, the thing that's in your sphere of influence, hitting your macros training hard, and not getting fixated on skill weight. Because when you go to maintenance, it's very common to fear the scale weight increases, especially since you will, you will gain a few pounds initially from water weight, just accept that that is going to happen. Okay. However, you don't want to slow down your recovery by keeping the calories too low. I just spoke to somebody earlier today, whose expenditure was dropping after she went back to maintenance. And it's probably because she's still under eating even though it's more than when she was dieting. It's not quite enough. And so the body is not quite recovering. And so this could just prolong the effects of being in the deficit, which is what we're trying to avoid. Now, if you're using macro factor, you'll know your exact expenditure at any given point in time. And you can confidently increase calories. Immediately, literally the next day if you want to, to your post diet maintenance level, post diet maintenance level, not the not the maintenance level before you started the diet, the maintenance level you're at right now. And then that level, that expenditure should then start to rise as your hormones and energy recovering. And the caveat is if they don't, you're probably still under eating, if no other variables have changed. Like obviously, if you if your step count goes from 15,000 to 2000, that would be another cause of your expenditure dropping. But assuming nothing else changes, your hormones and energy should start to recover. And this is where it's important to trust the process and not react to short term fluctuations because you'll see things that happen that just may not make sense in the short term like with your scale weight, it may feel like you're taking a step back, because it seems like you're eating too much. For example, for some people, it's like wow, this just seems like a lot of calories, or the extra carbs make you feel a bit fuller or bloated because of the additional glycogen and water retention. But this whole thing we're talking about here is a transition period. All of these feelings are normal. And this is where that that mental resilience and patients are going to be your friend as you stick with it and come out the other side. So patience is required to get through this phase until you see from your longer term weight trend. Okay, we're talking three, four weeks and longer and your biofeedback right how you feel your energy, your sleep or stress. Based on all of that

Philip Pape 14:44

it will tell you that yes, you are indeed at a new level of energy and performance. And guess what, you're not going to all of a sudden gain a bunch of weight other than that small bump initially from water weight, you should more or less maintain your weight. And even the person I spoke about earlier whose expenditure started to drop her weight went up by maybe two pounds over two months since coming out of the diet. And most of that was at the beginning because of the water. The last tip I have for the mental side is track and measure those things that you can control, that should be moving in a positive direction. This could be the most important tip of all, because this is what gives you clarity, and awareness to know that your choices are causing a certain outcome. So this would include your calories and macros, your lifts, your sleep, the self care practices to help manage stress, all of those things, you should feel a whole lot better at maintenance pretty quickly if you fully recover to your current expenditure. So on one hand, if you're not, you know, something is not quite recovered. And then on the other hand, if you are, I want you to embrace that, embrace that, because that means it's working. Alright, so that's, that's the psychological piece of it, that there isn't a lot more other than trusting the process, being patient, and being aware of what's going on. And knowing that certain things are going to happen that seem counterintuitive at first, but they're really not. So now let's talk about the physiology of maintenance, right? What's happening to your body physically, because then this awareness can also further improve your mental perception of the situation. So when transitioning from a cut to maintenance, you're going to get this fluid shift in the scale weights going to rebound, as I mentioned before, and it could be by what I see with my clients, anywhere from three to five pounds, it's probably less than that, but I want to prepare you mentally for it. And if you're a little bit bigger, if you're a bigger man, for example, you might be up to four or five pounds on the scale weight of pure fluid shifts, okay, it's gonna be more or less depending on the relative size, but it's important to be aware of that. This is just glycogen storage, this is intracellular water normalizing back to their full levels. As you increase calories, also, this is a different thing that happens, hunger hormones, leptin gralen, those improve, so your satiety or fullness should increase. If you are experiencing hunger during a diet, that should start to dissipate and go away. Right, your appetite and hunger should go back to normal levels. Now, again, it may not the transition period is the period where you just trust the process and you don't react. After that after let's say, three, four weeks, the hunger should be back to normal. If you're still experiencing hunger, that's a possible sign that you're still under eating. Now, here's the other thing, your metabolism will definitely well, I'll say likely, but almost definitely have down regulated have decreased from the calorie deficit, right metabolic adaptation. This adaptation should reverse when you go back to maintenance calories, right. However, it may remain a little bit suppressed for a few weeks during the transition period. So again, transition period trust the process. And this is why there's a little hack that I like to use with my clients. And I've mentioned it before, called the top side of maintenance. So if you're using macro factors, this is really easy. Instead of just setting a goal to maintain knowing that a, you're going to actually gain a few pounds to be at the beginning anyway. And you don't want math per factor to be maintaining you an artificially low weight. But then be, you want to make sure to recover as fast as possible, what we're going to do is set the app to a goal of gain, but the rate of gain to as small as possible. So there's a little slider, you're gonna go left well below the green area to almost no gain at all. But it's still considered a gain from the apps perspective. And so the app will give you a calorie target to eat to consume that slightly overshoots your maintenance calories. And we're doing this with the expectation that your expenditure will start increasing quickly as it recovers, and helps you avoid being in an accidental deficit. And that's the guidance I just gave the person I mentioned earlier, is why don't we overshoot. And she's not doing it this way. She's she's set a goal to maintain. But she's over consuming by 50 to 100 calories every day, at my suggestion to see if that actually helps her recover fully. And she's in a kind of a suppressed state right now. But a nice easy way to do it a macro factor without having to think about it is just set it to a game with a really low rate, however you do it. The key here is to manage your expectations. Your body prefers homeostasis, right prefers to be at a stable state. So it will be regaining equilibrium through multiple adaptations. It's not a simple linear thing, right? There's a lot of hormones, there's a lot of complexity involved. And as you improve and as your energy improves, it cascades and helps other things improve as well. Like for example, you could sleep more or you can train harder, right and then these will all feed on themselves. So to recap physiologically during maintenance in the transition to maintenance. It is normal for glycogen storage and intracellular water to balance meaning you're gonna get a bump in weight. There are multiple signals at in your body that regulates homeostasis. So it's more complex than you realize you are not regaining fat, and you are not losing muscle. And your fat cells are filling with water during the transition. Very important understand all of that. So we don't overreact during that transition. Alright, so now let's move to some practical matters. First off, how do you set your calories and macros for maintenance? You might think that being a maintenance means you no longer need to track your food. My answer to that is maybe one of the interesting challenges that maintenance is that you are aiming to avoid going into an accidental diet, you know, deficit or diet, which would impede your energy and performance. But you're also trying to avoid gaining weight too quickly and producing unnecessary fat regain. So you could eat intuitively based on the skills that you've built so far. And I have had a few clients that take this approach that eat a lot of Whole Foods, they are in touch with their hunger signals. And they track when they gain and they lose, but they don't track on maintenance. I've definitely seen this work. My recommendation here, however, is continue tracking for a while until you're completely confident in those skills and intuition. Okay, I spoke about this with Dr. Eric helms on he was on the show. And even he It took years and years for him to develop that, right. And he recommends most people track in some way. It doesn't hurt to track and measure the things that you want more confidence in measuring, right and being aware of, especially, especially when you still harbor some of that, you know, fear about going to maintenance, whether it's fear of gaining weight or any other fears. So, having said that, what do those targets? What do those minimums look like? And here we go. As soon as you're done with your cut, I want you to increase calories as quickly as possible to your current expenditure, your current maintenance calories, not the maintenance calories before you started the diet, the ones you're ending the diet with, which means you would have had to track to that point to know what those are. And using a tool like macro factor or a spreadsheet, or some other way to estimate it. Right? Because Because apps like My Fitness Pal chronometer aren't going to do that for you. And or they'll do it. And it's actually completely wrong. I've talked about this before, I don't want to rehash all that. But be careful what tool you use. The trick here is that you must know your current dynamic maintenance to be able to do that. I did an episode I don't have the number with me right now. It was about reverse dieting versus recovery dieting. So you can go back and find it. I think the title was why reverse dieting doesn't work like you think. Right. And the idea is that a reverse diet is increasing calories slowly by let's say 200 calories this week, 200 calories next week, until your body recovers after diet. The problem with that approach is first of all, it's guesswork. Secondly, it takes too long. And third, it doesn't provide any benefits that people claim that it provides. For whatever. There are many benefits that it claims I talked about in the episode one of them being you can, you know, increase your metabolism and make dieting easier next time. For example, there's a whole bunch of claims that are just false. Whereas recovery dieting is simply going from your deficit to no deficit. That's all it is. It's going from a deficit up to zero deficit. And the rate, the way you know you're at zero deficit is your eating what you burn, you have to know what to burn. That's it. So if you don't already use macro factor, literally the only food logging app in existence that does this correctly. Pause right now download it from your app store, use my code Wits & Weights all one word, Wits & Weights, to extend your free trial by a week, give it a shot, you'll need to use it for about three weeks to get a good idea of your true maintenance calories. Now, hopefully

Philip Pape 23:42

you already used macro factor during your dieting phase, and now have the confidence to jump right to your maintenance calories. Okay, that's we're kind of assuming you've gone through that you've tracked you know where it is, and you can jump otherwise. It's hard. I mean, it's harder to know what to jump back to without overshooting or under shooting because if you undershoot you're not going to be getting enough recovery, and if you overshoot, of course, the fear of gaining weight becomes true because you could that's what happens to most people with a yo yo cycle throughout their life is a comeback. And they over consume. Not to mention they're not training, so they're losing muscle, and then they're gaining only fat and all that good stuff. Alright, so the the caveat with the macro factor thing of jumping straight to your dynamic maintenance is that if you were in a fairly aggressive diet, like 1000 calorie deficit or more, let's say the jump back might feel like too much to do in like one or two days. That's all it might feel like wow, I you know, your stomach can't even handle it. Your digestion, that's fine. It's okay to titrate it up over a few days, let's say two or 300 calories a day. Until you get there your body will adapt quickly. This is not a reverse diet. Reverse diet is like okay, we're just gonna shift by 200 calories this week. See what happens. All right now we're gonna shift by 200 calories next week. See what happens? Totally different. This is just quickly jumping calories until you get to what you know you want to be right now. It's like stair stepping up to creaminess. Hey, this is Philip. And I hope you're enjoying this episode of Wits & Weights, I started Wits & Weights to help people who want to build muscle lose fat and actually look like they lift. I've noticed that when people improve their strength and physique, they not only look and feel better, they transform other areas of their life, their health, their mental resilience and their confidence in everything they do. And since you're listening to this podcast, I assume you want the same things the same success, whether you recently started lifting, or you've been at this for a while and want to optimize and reach a new level of success. Either way, my one on one coaching focused on engineering your physique and body composition is for you. If you want expert guidance and want to get results faster, easier, and with fewer frustrations along the way to actually look like you lift, go to wits & weights.com, and click on coaching, or use the link in my show notes to apply today, I'll ask you a few short questions to decide if we're a good fit. If we are, we'll get you started this week. Now back to the show. So that's calories. Now within the calories. You know, we talk about macros all the time, but we're going to reiterate, protein should be set around 0.7 to one gram per pound of your new body weight, fat, probably around 30% of the calories, maybe more, maybe less. And then the rest is carbs. So when you do the math, you'll see that the biggest jump comes from carbs, because protein should be around what it was during the diet. If anything, it might come down a little bit, excuse me. And then the fat comes up. Because it's scaled, it's scaled to calories, right 30% of your calories and lower calorie, it's going to be hired higher calorie, obviously. But then the rest is carbs. And so carbs will see the biggest jump. And that is where some of the fear and the feelings around weight gain and fat gain come into play. I know it, I hear it all the time. That's where the fear comes is like, oh boy, I have to I have to eat this many more carbs. Now. I look at it as I get to eat all these extra carbs and the energy is going to flood in. And hopefully you can shift to having that positive approach. And trust the process and enjoy those carbs for the added performance recovery energy that they bring you. We love carbs on this show. This is not a low carb diet show. Okay? Now you can consume a low carb diet, and I'll be your friend and you can get results. But we are not anti CARB is my point if you have no intolerances. And if you enjoy carbs, they are a beautiful part of a flexible lifestyle and will help tremendously when you're trying to build muscle. So here that was my car brands for today's episode. So once you've jumped up, you've got your protein, fat, and then carbs increased to where they need to be over the next say two to four weeks, you're likely going to make weekly adjustments in response to your metabolism, which may start climbing, though it may not everyone responds a bit differently. Okay, the key here is not to fall into an accidental deficit, because we want to at least ensure give us the best chance of that complete recovery as fast as possible. And by chance, I don't mean it's not going to happen for you, it will. But I've definitely seen cases where your body needs more energy than you think it does for the maintenance. And because you're still under eating a little bit, it slows down the recovery. So if you're using macro factor, this is super easy. Any other app will require a lot more manual calculation on your part to keep up with your expenditure. But either way, also track and monitor the things that you care about during this process. Okay, strength and progress and your lifts, circumference measurements, biofeedback, all the things we talked about track track track, you see, I'm a big fan of data and tracking and awareness. I have calls with people all the time who are looking for guidance, or you know, we have a results breakthrough session or they're interested in coaching. And I'm always No, I shouldn't say I'm surprised because I've been there and we've all been there. But I was gonna say I'm always surprised at how little they're tracking things that could have given them an answer weeks or months ago. For example, just tracking your waist measurement weekly, can reveal a lot of things if you hit a plateau on your scale way, like if you hit if you're in a dieting phase and your scale weight plateaus. And let's say it plateaus for three weeks, but your waist dropped by an inch and a half during that three weeks. You may be you may have been gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time. And that caused the scale way to flatline. However you are becoming leaner, right? Little things like that. And so that's not a judgment on anyone. In fact, it's why I want you to reach out to me and schedule a call and talk so we can go over what you're doing and say, Hey, let's audit you know what you're tracking. If there's a couple things you could just add to your tracking portfolio, so to speak, that are easy and give you a more awareness that's going to that's going to really accelerate your progress. So remember that your activity level also affects your expenditure. Okay, and you're going to have more Energy to lift. Now with the carbs in the calories, you're gonna be able to lift a bit harder a bit heavier, you're probably gonna be able to walk and move more consciously or unconsciously sub or consciously, or what's the word I'm looking for? Subconscious that Yes. And all of these things would further ramp up your metabolism. So it's very interesting. When you actually get all the energy, you need to recover from a cut to a maintenance, it starts to feed on itself. And your expenditure does not remain fixed. I mean, this is the big, the big irony of being at maintenance that to maintain your weight, you need to adjust your calories regularly and not assume there'll be the same. That's why I said tracking versus Intuitive Eating is going to be more beneficial for a lot of people.

Philip Pape 30:44

The rules of higher protein for building muscle of improving your body composition still apply. But now much higher carbs are part of the equation, especially if you're trying to build muscle. So you know, a low carb keto diet is going to make that much harder. It just is right and we're talking about going back to maintenance and be recovered and building muscle. Check out my episode 126 on that actually, it's called more carbs, more muscle by low carb and keto are keeping you skinny fat. I got a lot of great comments on that one, including some hater comments, which I always love, you know, people who they see the title, don't even listen to the episode. And it's like, Oh, can you tell people that you know, you have, you should eat all these carbs, it's terrible for your health, you're gonna get fat or, you know, no, you could build muscle just fine and a low carb. And it's like, listen to the show and listen to the full context, please, before we reach out, and for those who do and then offer criticism and critique, Oh, I love you guys. Like it's great. We need to have those dialogues and conversations because not one thing is going to work for everyone. And I never claimed that everyone should be eating moderate to high carb diets. what I claim is you should not cut out anything when evidence doesn't support cutting it out. Okay. Now that brings us to how to structure your nutrition around your workouts. So we talked about the calories and the carbs, the extra carbs are going to make it easier to fuel your workouts. Still, you want to shift a large part of your carbs around your workout. Well, we call parry workout, right? This maximizes your energy during your lifting sessions. It also maximizes the repair the hypertrophy response of your muscles, the protein sparing effect of of that and subsequent recovery. So not only do we like the carbs, we'd like to time the carbs around our workouts, put it in the numbers, the numbers are as follows. I recommend 25 to 40 grams of protein before and after training and about 30 to 50 grams of carbs pre workout, up to 100 grams of carbs post workout in something like a two to one or three to one ratio of carbs to protein. So I know he just threw a lot of numbers at you. But it's basically get a decent amount of protein before and after. Get a decent amount of carbs before and after. But definitely a lot of carbs after and maybe even more carbs than that. If you're a calorie support, I do not recommend fasted training. However, if you must do to your schedule, do your medications, or it works well for you. And you really love, you know time restricted feeding intermittent fasting, that approach and that works for you, then do it right, if I don't recommend it as a default is what I'm trying to say. I recommend trying both approaches. And don't assume that there's some extra benefit intermittent fasting. Now, I don't know if it came out before after this episode. I think it's after this episode, there's a conversation I had with a gentleman where we talked about intermittent fasting and he does it because it makes him feel good. Right and his body's used to it and great, that's awesome. Plus he has intolerances with a bunch of types of foods that contain certain carb sources. If you train fasted, you might want to gulp down some essential amino acids before we work out. That's the only scenario where I think they're probably helpful. Other than that, they're a waste of money and you don't need them. If you're not training faster. Definitely whoever you are, consider taking creatine monohydrate right unless you're allergic to it, which actually is a thing I had one client in all my time that was allergic to it. And I'd never seen that my entire life since before or since but it's possible. But yeah, creatine monohydrate five grams a day that can be taken post workout or really whenever it's convenient, hot cold with without caffeine, don't overthink it. And of course, space your protein throughout the day, across at least three meals, but more likely four or five, depending on how many calories you need. Now why am i Repeating lots of things that I've said before on previous episodes. First of all, this may be the first episode you've heard with me. Secondly, when we're talking about maintenance, I want this to be sort of a definitive guide of okay, your backup maintenance. We need to treat this seriously and take a solid nutrition and training approach. There's nothing you know, it's not like a cakewalk. It's still requires being in control and thinking and having awareness and making choices. But it can still be a very flexible liberating approach we can Take. All right, now I'm going to share two advanced strategies that I use with clients. Since Neil did ask about what I do with clients. The first is, I already alluded to it. And it's to use an extremely lean gain instead of pure maintenance. All right, now I mentioned setting macro factor to again, and going with a very low rate. What I'm talking about here is maybe a little bit more than that. So not quite a normal gain of like, point one 2.3% of your body weight, but maybe point 05 Or point 08. I know, it sounds like how can you be that precise? Well, again, if you're using manufacturer, or if you're working with a coach, we can be that precise. You know, within reason, it's close enough. Now I like this very lean gain, because it almost guarantees that you don't dip into an energy starving deficit, even the smallest one, even just for a couple of days that can impede your performance. And for Neil and others who are athletes, you know, who are worried about strength to weight ratio, I like this, because you're really not gonna gain much weight at all, it's gonna be over a very long period of time, but you're going to ensure that you have the energy flooding in, because you're effectively here in a building phase, not nearly the amount needed to maximize muscle gain. But the benefit is also you're not going to really gain much fat at as a trade off right as a trade off of also not really gaining much muscle because it's not a true muscle building phase, you're also going to ensure that you have a lot of energy flooding in and not be gaining fat as well. So you're trying to have your cake and eat it too, if you will, an actual cake you can have too, if you want. Okay, which leads me to the second strategy of micro cuts. So the first strategy is extreme lean gain, extremely lean gain, I should call it not extreme, just a an extreme lean, lean gain. The second strategy is micro cuts. Now I did an entire episode about this episode 116, titled seven lessons from my rapid fat loss. micro cut, aggressive dieting is not for everyone. Important to say the whole title there. And you can check that out since episode 116. And I have a free guide that goes with it called the Rapid Fat Loss guide. That explains the entire protocol. And in case I don't have the link in this show notes in the show notes for this episode, you can always go to wits & weights.com/free, okay, wits & weights.com/free. And you can find all those guides in there. So the Rapid Fat Loss guide is what it's called. And I bring this up, because if you if you indeed, slowly gain a few extra pounds by being in the Lean gain strategy, one I just mentioned. And that's going to happen over months, like that's not going to happen over days or weeks, it's going to take a long time, but you might actually start gaining very, very slowly over time, you can use this rapid, very aggressive fat loss phase of either a nine day phase, or 15 days, 15 days is the protocol I have in there, but you could cut out the last, it's three segments, you can cut out the last segment and do the first two segments if you want to have it even shorter.

Philip Pape 38:09

And that can cut a few pounds of fat while holding on the lean muscle and effectively reset your body composition back to the full leanness that you started with for the maintenance phase. That makes sense. So you can use a lean gain. And then after a few months, you know you've packed on an extra three pounds or something or four pounds and not much at all. That's beyond the waterway I'm talking about, we're talking about just a combination of some muscle and fat, you can then use a two or three a nine or 15 Day micro cut to just lop off a little bit of that fat. So think about that strategy. Okay, it's pretty cool. Last thing I want to address is some of the pitfalls I see. Okay, I came up with a list of five common pitfalls during maintenance, how to avoid them how to troubleshoot them, it is a given. Okay, it's a given with all of this, that you are continuing to train hard. If you did a proper fat loss phase where you are training hard, keeping the intensity variable high, right intensity, meaning percentage of your one rep max, right, the load on the bar, keeping that high during a fat loss phase you held on to most of your muscle, you're continuing that now back into maintenance, if not training even harder now. Maybe you're training, changing your programming, adding more volume, whatever it is, we should be able to train even harder. I'm going to assume you're doing that and not even put that on this list. Otherwise, that would be a six pitfall of just, hey, you're not training heavy enough. Okay, you got to do that. But here are the five things that I see number one, not tracking. He knew that was coming, not tracking and thus you end up relying on reverse dieting, and then that just takes too long or you overshoot your maintenance and you get unnecessary fat gain the thing that you're probably afraid of, you need to know your expenditure to return to it quickly and achieve full metabolic recovery, taking advantage of that high energy state as soon as possible. And if you If you do that a macro factor and you set your if you go back to maintenance, and let's say your metabolism has been suppressed by like 500 calories since when you started the diet. So you've gone from, let's say 2500 to 2000. And now you're in you were in a deficit below 2000, of course, and now you're coming back to 2000. It's okay to want to overshoot that just a little bit, when you first start consuming food, like overshoot it by 50 calories, or maybe even 100 calories, to make sure that you get that recovery, because your metabolism might be an over responder, and it starts to climb fast, and macro factor can't really like keep up with it, because it's just responding a little bit reactively to what's happening. Whereas you can be even more proactive by over consuming just a tiny bit. But because you know that number, the overconsumption is controlled, it's restrained, just just the right amount to push it along. Okay, so tracking is gonna help with all of that. Number two, the second pitfall is freaking out. Because the initial weight bump, and going back into a diet, in response, or even worse, slightly under eating and thinking, your maintenance, but still being in a diet. So this is more of an intentional thing, this is not the accidental one, this is you being scared, seeing the weight go up, oh, no, I must be gaining fat. And now you you step back, and you under consume, even though the target is telling you eat 2000 calories, you're like, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna try to stay lean, I'm gonna eat 1900 calories. You're shooting yourself in the foot by doing this because you're not trusting the process, and you're not getting the recovery and guess what you're doing, you're just prolonging your diet. And now you're not, you're going to mentally think you're not in a diet while you're in a diet. And you're not going to lose any weight either. Because it's so small of the diet, you get the worst of all the world, it's it's a lose, lose, lose. So even though you might freak out, trust the process. Number three, not increasing carbs enough and taking advantage of the energy and hormonal recovery. Or conversely, reducing protein and compromising your muscle retention and recovery. So I'm combining this all into one, protein should be about the same fats will come up a bit and carbs will come up a lot. That's what it should look like. Don't be afraid of carbs, embrace them. Again, unless you're on a specific protocol. That's a lower carb approach. And you're increasing calories by increasing fats and protein, like on a keto diet, for example, unless you're doing that, and if that's you, cool, do that. For most people, they want to have the extra carbs. But they don't want to have the extra carbs if you know what I mean. They know they need it. They know the target. The new targets say they need it. But something about it. eating all those extra carbs doesn't seem right to them. For some reason you know who you are, you're listening. And what we want to do there is think about carbs as the missing fuel that that we can finally introduce into our body. From that fat loss phase, it was one of the most critical fuel sources were missing. And now that we're going to get it back who watch what happens to our lifts, watch what happens to our sleep, watch what happens our hormones, watch what happens to our metabolism, your metabolism should go up faster once you have that recovery. So don't be afraid of carbs, embrace them. Number four. The fourth common pitfall I see is reducing your movement or your steps just because you're not in fat loss anymore. Right? Many of us we will ramp up our step count during fat loss, we'll go from like 8000 steps a day to 12 14,000 steps a day like yeah, this is great. I'm keeping that expenditure dry. And then you get out of the diet, you're like, Okay, I can go back to 6000 steps or 8000 steps. Well, that's going to blunt the metabolic recovery because you're reducing your energy flux. If the amount of steps you were able to get to in fat loss is sustainable, and it didn't feel forced. Keep that up, right, like keep that keep that consistent. Don't give it up just because you think you don't need it anymore. It can only help. It helps with cardiovascular health. It helps with metabolic health, your energy flux for your metabolism, your resilience, your digestion, your blood sugar, control, your sleep, it helps us all that stuff, hunger signals, right,

Philip Pape 44:10

keep it up. Now, if you were, let's say artificially bumping your step countering fat loss with some extra cardio or some extra walks that were not quite sustainable, but you were doing them for the fat loss phase. Well, I then naturally, I could understand why those would come down a bit, just know that that can cause a little bit of an offset in your expenditure. It may not right, it may not like I've seen plenty of folks, myself included, that you're lifting so much harder, and your body is so much more relaxed. Now because of calories coming in that even though your step count went down, it doesn't really make much of a dent in your expenditure. It's a very complex multivariate system we've got going on with our body here. The last the fifth common pitfall is adding in too much processed food instead of sticking with the approach that you developed during fat loss which is nutrient density, high protein, high fiber, right? Yes, we want to have flexibility. That's the whole point of something that you can stick with. But also we want to keep those current habits and the discipline you've developed, going. So what I recommend when the calories come up, and it's mostly in the form of carbs, just scale up some of the carbs you were eating and reintroduce some of the Whole Foods, sources of carbs that you've been missing, whether that's oats, rye, oats, rice, quinoa, you know, starches, fruits, you know, even breads and pastas, but just things you've been missing, they're mostly Whole Foods before you go to the processed foods. Now, having said that, the extra calories does give you a little bit more room for an indulgence or to beyond what you had before, right. So if that helps you stick with your diet, and you plan it in, please do that, like that is the point of all of this. And now you have more calories to play with. So for sure, but a common pitfall is going straight for those indulgences instead of just scaling up the whole foods first. Okay, I hope this was helpful. I think that covers everything about maintenance, that I wanted to address within a, you know, hour long app most podcast episode. And this is based on my experience with clients over the years, my education and nutrition, you know, researching for this podcast, and there's there's always more to learn. And one thing that I have learned is that living at maintenance can be deceptively simple. So as with any phase of your nutrition skills, like mindfulness, consistency, adaptability, these are going to be your big mental friends. Many of the clients in my program who get through this, not get through they they thrive and complete the three or six months and achieve their fat loss goal. And they usually lose between, let's say, 20 and 60 pounds of fat, it's pretty common, they then find that they want to continue working together because of the intricacies of this transition from the cut to maintenance and maintaining results. So again, Neil, thank you for bringing this up. Because it it is a common problem that we solve when we talk about nutrition, but I don't talk about it enough on the show. Maintenance is also a great time to assess to assess your future goals, your next phase, this can be very exciting. If you're a planner like me, it's a time to take a breath, let things stabilize, and then say, okay, I do want to build muscle, but I needed to take a break, I didn't want to like overshoot and gain too much weight too quickly. So I took my time I sat here meanings for a month, two months, three months, maybe I it allowed me to deal with some other things in my life that have nothing to do with my fitness. And now I can plan ahead and think very thoughtfully, mindfully, carefully, maybe talk to a coach, maybe reach out for a call or fill up a free call and talk about what is next. And let's map it out. So whether you're there or not, you know that I can help get there if you want to reach out as can our community. If you're not ready to apply for coaching, of course, I always have spots for those free results. Breakthrough calls with me. Think of it like an audit of your nutrition and training, where I help you get clarity on the most important two or three, maybe four, but probably two or three steps that you can take right now to get unstuck and move in the right direction. Like I mentioned before, maybe it's just something you're not tracking. And I can help identify that for you. These aren't sales calls, they're not sales pitches. Feel free to ask others in the Facebook community who've had these calls with me, and they'll tell you all about it. Their conversations to get you clarity, it's just a 30 minute zoom call with another human being just go to wits & weights.com and click free call or click the link in my show notes. Again, it's wits & weights.com and click free call or click the link in my show notes for the three three no for the free 30 minute results breakthrough session. Given that it is cost free and risk free, you have nothing to lose other than maybe speeding up losing fat. Ah, see what I did there. Okay, in our next episode 137 Unlock abundance in fitness and every other aspect of life with Rebecca Whitman. Rebecca shares her philosophy of the Seven Pillars of abundance, challenging us to rethink how we balance our lives with an emphasis on physical abundance. It was a great conversation if you've heard Rebecca before. She goes on a lot of podcasts and talks about these pillars but I really wanted to dial in on the physical abundance piece for you the listener who I know that's really what we care about on this show. From her unique approach to her morning routine. We talked about embracing abundance, building resilience being more consistent, reshaping your identity, all of those things to harness your full potential. So check that out. As always, stay strong. And I'll talk to you next time here on the Wits & Weights podcast. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights if you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up there Wits & Weights, please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then Stay strong

Philip Pape 1/5/24 Philip Pape 1/5/24

Ep 135: The Truth About Testosterone for Women’s Health with Karen Martel

Did you know that testosterone plays an important role in women's health? Are you curious about how hormones can help you achieve lasting weight loss? In today’s episode, Philip welcomes back Karen Martel, a Certified Hormone Specialist and Transformational Nutrition Coach who has helped many women find new vibrancy through hormone awareness and optimization, especially throughout the peri- and post-menopause phases.

Did you know that testosterone plays an important role in women's health? Are you curious about how hormones can help you achieve lasting weight loss?

In today’s episode, Philip (@witsandweights) welcomes back Karen Martel, a Certified Hormone Specialist and Transformational Nutrition Coach who has helped many women find new vibrancy through hormone awareness and optimization, especially throughout the peri- and post-menopause phases.

The last time Karen was on the show, way back in Episode 31, where listeners can also get her full backstory, Philip and Karen unpacked the complexities of hormones and weight loss during perimenopause. Karen is here today to uncover the truth about testosterone for women. You will learn the role of testosterone in women’s health and vitality, who might benefit from testosterone therapy, common questions related to benefits, safety, and dosage, and where all this is headed into the future.

Episode summary:

Hormone specialist Karen Martell returned to provide an insightful discussion on a topic that has long been shrouded in misconceptions: the role of testosterone in women's health. The episode debunked the common belief that testosterone is exclusively a male hormone, revealing its significant, yet often overlooked, impact on female vitality.

The conversation with Karen was an eye-opener, addressing the underestimated prevalence of testosterone in comparison to estrogen and progesterone. Testosterone, it turns out, is the most abundant hormone in women during their fertile years. This fact alone challenges societal misconceptions and paves the way for a better understanding of women's health needs. Karen elaborated on the benefits of testosterone therapy, emphasizing its role in maintaining libido, muscle mass, and insulin sensitivity, particularly during perimenopause and menopause when hormonal imbalances can significantly affect quality of life.

Furthermore, the podcast delved into the intricacies of hormone replacement therapy (HRT), highlighting the importance of personalized health solutions. Karen shared that individualized approaches to HRT could extend far beyond basic treatment, offering significant health benefits like reducing the risk of heart disease and Alzheimer's. This underscores the need for early testing in women's 20s and early 30s to establish a baseline for testosterone levels, aiding in the detection and management of hormonal changes later in life.

The episode didn't just focus on HRT; it also explored natural methods to enhance testosterone levels. The power of adaptogens such as ashwagandha, tongkat ali, and maca was discussed, with a detailed explanation of their roles in hormonal health and their capacity to harmonize hormone levels. Karen also emphasized the need for comprehensive testing, including blood work and urine metabolite testing, to customize treatment and support hormonal balance effectively.

One particularly compelling aspect of the conversation was the discussion around the broader landscape of hormone replacement therapy for women. Karen pointed out the lack of training among general practitioners in managing menopause and perimenopause, leading to a reliance on antidepressants or birth control as a catch-all solution. She encouraged women to take control of their wellness journey by seeking out specialists trained in hormone therapy and exploring over-the-counter options for hormone replacement.

The episode concluded with the introduction of Karen's upcoming line of over-the-counter hormones, promising to provide women with additional resources to manage their hormonal health. This represents a step towards greater accessibility and empowerment for women seeking to optimize their health and thrive.

Overall, the podcast episode served as a journey towards empowerment, arming listeners with the knowledge necessary to take control of their hormonal health. It provided a comprehensive look at the critical role of testosterone in women's wellness and offered practical advice for those looking to enhance their vitality through both therapy and natural methods. The conversation with Karen Martell was a call to action for women to redefine their approach to health and wellness through a deeper understanding of their hormonal landscape.

Today you’ll learn all about:

2:36 Testosterone’s role in women’s health
7:24 Debunking myths about testosterone in women
9:02 DHEA, adrenal health, stress/cortisol
11:38 Criteria for testosterone supplementation/treatment
17:44 When women should test for testosterone levels
23:01 Role in weight management during menopause
28:47 Integrating testosterone in holistic hormone therapy
34:49 Benefits for aging/vitality
46:07 Side effects and dosing of TRT
47:40 Long-term use and the future of TRT
50:03 One question you wish I had asked
53:26 How to connect with Karen
55:32 Outro

Episode resources:

Ep 31: Hormones and Weight Loss During Perimenopause with Karen Martel
The Hormone Solution Podcast
Website: karenmartel.com/
Instagram: @karenmartelhormones
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/karenmartelhormones

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Transcript

Karen Martel 00:00

The research shows that women that replaced their hormones, as you know, mainly estradiol progesterone, and testosterone have over 30% reduction in all cause mortality.

Philip Pape 00:14

Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host Philip Pape. In this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in Wits & Weights community Welcome to another episode of the Wits & Weights Podcast. Today I am thrilled to welcome back the one the only Karen Martell, a certified hormone specialist and transformational nutrition coach who's helped guide so many women to find new vibrancy through hormone awareness and optimization, especially throughout the Peri and post menopause phases. Last time Karen was here way back on Episode 31, where you can also hear her full backstory. We unpacked the complexities of hormones and weight loss during perimenopause. She's here today to uncover the truth about testosterone for women. You'll learn the role of testosterone in women's health and vitality, who might benefit from therapy, common questions about benefits, safety, dosage and where all this is headed. And of course, you must check out Karen's top rated podcast, the hormone solution podcast, where she empowers women to navigate Peri menopause and post menopause with grace and knowledge. So many great topics and guests. Karen, I want to welcome you back to the show. Thanks

Karen Martel 01:43

for having me back. This is great. I was episode three. I didn't realize it was so because what are you at now you're at like 200 Or you want

Philip Pape 01:51

not not quite there. But we're in the 120s Yeah, we're in the 120s. When this one's out, it's probably be in the 130s. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So

Karen Martel 02:00

100 episodes,

Philip Pape 02:02

it hasn't back then I was using the TV tray in my closet. So I've upgraded a little bit since then. You wouldn't know. So it's good to have you back. I know a lot of my listeners love your show and what you talk about and you know, the stuff we do tends to complement a lot of what women are looking for, with the overall holistic approach to their health. So today, we want to talk about testosterone. Hot Topic, very important. I think it's one of those hormones that kind of flies under the radar compared to others like estrogen. But we know it's important. We know women want to know more about it. So let's start with the basics. What's the primary function of testosterone in the woman's body? And then we'll go from there, huh?

Karen Martel 02:42

Yeah, so women don't think of their testosterone, first of all, because we associated being the man's hormone. And it is it's an androgen, so it's falls under the category of the more masculine hormones. But what's interesting is we actually as women produce more testosterone in our fertile years than we do estrogen or progesterone, which are the two main female hormones that every most people have heard of, you know, estrogen and progesterone. And so they think that that's like our primary hormones. But actually, testosterone is our most abundant hormone. And so the ovaries will produce about 40% of our testosterone, and they produce that first, and then that's converted, or what's called aromatize into Astra dial, which is our main female feminine hormone. And so we without the testosterone, we couldn't be women, which I think is really interesting. It's like man makes women woman which, you know, maybe we go back to the whole Adam, Adam, wasn't a rib wasn't a rib that they gave or that he gave, I think it was the testosterone for actually had to give you testosterone so you can become a woman, which I just think that that's interesting. And what's with on the flip side of that, men don't think that they need extra dye all but in actual fact, it is extremely important for men and when men go on like aromatize inhibitors, which stops the conversion of testosterone to estrogen. They can get super sick and actually feel really bad and have bone issues. They can have depression, they can have low libido from not enough Astra dial. So we both need these hormones, but it's just not recognized in women and the mainstream medical system like men will have their testosterone covered by extended medical if they have it here in Canada. It's covered. We have Andrew gel, and it's in the States as Andrew gel and all the guys get it whenever they want it. There's no testosterone made by a pharmaceutical company for women. I've heard of one like last year. I have yet to see it, though. But I heard that there was going to be one coming for women. And so right now we can only compound testosterone replacement.

Philip Pape 05:19

And that's even even in the US. That's the case in in the US.

Karen Martel 05:23

Yeah, yeah. So right now, it's primarily compounded. I have yet to see anybody actually get this pharmacy brand of testosterone. So it's not covered for women. But men have it covered,

Philip Pape 05:35

which men just walk into a clinic like shoot me up, let's get let's get it. Yeah, there's just

Karen Martel 05:39

offering clinics on every street corner these days. And it's all about oh my gosh, don't, God forbid you have erectile dysfunction. And if you have one day without an erection, we're gonna hop you up on testosterone and whatever you need, so that you can have sex. And then these poor women whose testosterone is going down as their over ovarian function goes down to Cicerone goes down, and then their libido goes, but oh, that doesn't matter because we can still have sex even if we don't have a libido. So testosterone is number one really important for libido. It's also extremely important to, of course, maintain muscle tissue and to gain muscle tissue. Without testosterone, it's really difficult for women to put on muscle. So if your testosterone is dropping, and you're not able to keep up with your muscles and build that muscle, especially in perimenopause, and menopause, will actually become more insulin resistant, just from the drop of that muscle tissue, as you talk about loss and muscle tissue is our glucose sink. So without it, women become very insulin resistant. It's part of that puzzle and menopause estradiol also when we lose, it makes us become more insulin resistant. So we have this kind of double whammy happening, where it's, you know, that's one of the main causes of all the weight gain that happens for most menopausal women. Is that drop, and then that insulin resistance coming up? Yeah,

Philip Pape 07:10

I think that's that's a really excellent point, those three things so for people are listening, right? more muscle mass, more insulin sensitivity, easier to lose fat easier to maintain your weight, the opposite is the opposite, right? Easier to gain weight. And so this imbalance that occurs or this lack of testosterone, how much of that is responsible for these inability to gain or maintain muscle mass versus other factors? Like, is it huge? Is it the main factor?

Karen Martel 07:38

I don't know what the percentages per se, but I know that Astra dial is also really important for protein synthesis and building muscle. So there are other factors. Of course, insulin is a big one, too, you know, if you are insulin resistant, it does make it harder to put on muscle. So there's different factors when it comes to that building of muscle. We also know insulin, like growth factor has a lot to do with it, because that triggers growth hormone. And growth hormone is also really important for building muscle. So there's a few different factors, but testosterone is certainly a really big player. And I've seen a lot like countless women who start to replace their testosterone when it was low in menopause or perimenopause. And they're like, oh, my gosh, look at my body now and you see it on them, they suddenly have, like, they got muscle and all the work they're putting in at the gym starts to really pay off. I noticed that even in myself when I started testosterone therapy, I, mine wasn't even super low, but it was on the very low end. And soon as I started using it, it was like, oh, there we go, I can actually start seeing some muscle now when I'm working out and it doesn't seem like it's like, okay, why am I not? You know, why am I

Philip Pape 08:53

all that work? Now, what you talked about sir dial as a post cursor, or whatever you'd call it of sastra? What about the precursor DHEA. Where does that fall into this? Yeah, so

Karen Martel 09:05

we make about 40% of that testosterone inside the ovaries, but we also the other half is coming from the adrenal system. So we can make DHEA which is another androgen, but it's also a pre hormone, a pro hormone, so it helps us to make testosterone and estradiol. So and it's also an adrenal hormone. So it's important for our stress, and it's, you know, we want some of it, we don't want too much, because that tells us that we're too stressed out. If we go too high on it, we can also start getting really masculine features. polycystic ovarian syndrome, we tend to see high DHEA and high testosterone levels, and it's just pouring and that's because women will be missing that enzyme that converts that testosterone into estrogen aisle, so their estradiol tends to be low and then they're pouring that testosterone went out. And that makes them insulin resistant and makes them you know, get oily skin cystic acne hair loss. So too much testosterone is also not a good thing. And when too much DHEA is also too much like not a good thing as we age DHEA also will start to go down. So we have to make sure that we're taking care of the adrenal system because then we can, you know, 40% is made in the ovary. So without the ovarian function, we notice arousal is going to drop but we know then we have to really baby our adrenals in perimenopause and menopause so that our the adrenal system can continue to make that testosterone, but most women are super stressed nowadays. And so we rarely see DHEA in a good number in menopause, unfortunately. Okay,

Philip Pape 10:50

yeah. Because I think it's important to understand these different precursors so that you can get at the root cause, right, you can do the right testing and not overdo it with one thing, when really the other thing needs more love and care, right? Yeah.

Karen Martel 11:02

And there's ways to you know, it's really hard for women to get testosterone prescribe to them. But there's because only 40% is made in the ovaries. There's a lot of things that we can do supplement wise to help boost it unlike estradiol and progesterone, that once we stop ovulating, we just don't produce progesterone, we produce a tiny bit from the spinal cord and from the adrenal system, but it's never enough. So testosterone, you have a bit more of a chance by taking supplements to help boost it even in menopause. So we can talk about what some of those are that I

Philip Pape 11:37

like, Yeah, let's do that. I want to know how women can boost testosterone naturally, we'll start there. Yeah,

Karen Martel 11:42

so one is your favorite ashwagandha. We see that Ashwagandha is really great for the stress system. So it's actually in a lot of testosterone boosting supplements, which I appreciate that I like ashwagandha too. So stress supplementation, so things that are going to support the adrenal system, which is always you want to test that first test your adrenals test your cortisol test the DHEA let's see where it's at. Because some women are super low, some are super high, some just have dysregulation in the cortisol clock. So we really want to see where is it at so that we know what type of adrenal support that you need. Do you need something to help raise that cortisol and DHEA or do you need something to lower it because you're in that high stressed out state? So doing that first I think is super important because we can make so much of our testosterone out of those adrenal hormones. The other one is Tong get Ali which is a really popular one for men. And in the research of course it's only been I don't think there's any female studies yet on target le for women but it does work the same way and it does help to raise testosterone and in the research has been like really just showed such a great increase in testosterone in a very short amount of time for men. But it does work the same for women. Tongue get so t o n g a tea and then separate word a li Tangata Li and you want to try and get Indonesian tongue get anywhere between 204 100 milligrams a day take it in the daytime because it does give you a little bit of a boost of energy as well. The other one is for dosha arrest test and and there's been some good research on that too. For men that shows that it can boost testosterone. So you will find a lot of testosterone boosting supplements that actually have both those ingredients in it. Another one is maca that I just love, love love for both for all hormones really like it really helps to boost DHEA and helps to boost testosterone. It helps with Astra dial and my favorite company is one called feminine essence. And it has it's it's got I think it's four different types of maca that you choose from and one is just for men. Another one is for women in their fertile years. One's for Peri menopause and one's for menopause and they all have a different color in strain of maca that goes more with what's happening in that person's phase of life. So if you're in perimenopause and your testosterone is dropping, estrogen is dropping, you could take that feminine essence maca, and it can really help I've seen people reverse their their perimenopause and menopause and like go back to a regular cycle by just taking that, which is pretty incredible. specimen Yeah. Fascinating. Yeah, yeah, sorry.

Philip Pape 14:34

There's more. More on the element. Boron? Yeah, well, we're

Karen Martel 14:37

on the element at about 10 milligrams, actually. So that's a much higher dose than what you'll usually see in a supplement. And it only works if you're deficient in it, which is interesting. So you can take it, it's not going to harm you to take it necessarily. If you have lots. I haven't heard any adverse side effects. Um, it's a hard one to get tested, of course, I think you'd have to do probably like hair, mineral analysis or something. But boron helps us to lower sex hormone binding globulin. And sex hormone binding globulin is the protein that testosterone binds to, and carries it around your system. But it has to get like, become unattached from that, that protein for your body to use it. So I think of it as a bus sh VG is the bus that our hormones get a ride on. But they have to get off the bus for the cells to use it and for your body to actually get that hormone. So if your sh BG is elevated, which functional range, we don't want to see it for women above 85. And if it is, it means that you could have a lot of testosterone, but it's getting bound up by that protein. So your body is deficient in it in the free levels. So always get free and total testosterone tested, because you could have lots of total. But then you look at your free and it's all bound up by that sh VG and it's actually super low. So you're not you're you're having deficiency symptoms.

Philip Pape 16:09

Yeah, I want to get into testing in a second just on its own. So when women know exactly like how I should, they should get tested. But as we wrap up the supplement section, I think what, what's nice about these kinds of supplements being their herbal they're easy to access is you can do sort of an elimination diet or the reverse of that, right? You can try one at a time. I mean, if you try them all, it might one of those might one or two might work, but you don't know which one it is right. Yeah, do it

Karen Martel 16:35

that way. You recommend a good supplement that has all of it in there except for Okay, okay.

Philip Pape 16:40

Is it? So do you recommend doing that versus just trying like a few and then seeing if one is the big hitter for you? Or is it kind of a crapshoot, when it comes to that,

Karen Martel 16:49

I think you would get success with let's say, just using maca, or just using Tang Gat, those would be my two top favorites for boosting testosterone. But I think you would get more success with raising testosterone if you had them all in there. Because it's, you know, you're hitting all the angles, it's got zinc in it, it's got all the things. And so my favorite as of right now is called sigma. And it's by a company called gorilla minds. I'm not associated with them at all. I've just seen it work really well. And it's got the dojo restless has got Tonga in proper form, like improper levels, and it's got the zinc, it's got the boron in proper levels as well. And some other stuff in there. So it's got

Philip Pape 17:34

mines, yep. Okay. Yeah. Well, that'd be good. Yeah. I mean, again, as a coach with women with these issues, as well, I will be looking at that and suggesting it to people. So that's good. Let's go back to testing, right? Because testing is always a point of confusion, especially in the traditional healthcare system, where it's like, if you could even get them to give you a test, it's bloodwork. And usually that's not adequate, but it might be for testosterone. So let's, let's break it down. Exactly. That's one thing that makes it easy, right? So how should a woman get access, get tested, and then use the results properly.

Karen Martel 18:06

So once again, some really shitty man to woman things here, which is testosterone is the only one that they'll ever test free and total. Women when they won't do estradiol free and total or progesterone free and total. It's only testosterone, which is a little bit frustrating. But you that's a very accurate way to test your testosterone and testosterone. We have a little bit of a peak right before we ovulate, I think to give us that drive to go out and have sex and procreate. But pretty much we don't fluctuate like we do with our other hormones throughout the month. With testosterone, it stays pretty even keel we have that little flux on day 12. Right before we ovulate on a 28 day cycle. But you know, besides that, you can kind of just test whenever in the cycle, you probably don't want to test on that peak day, day. 21 is what I would recommend because that's where we test the estradiol and progesterone in fertile women so might as well do your testosterone then too. And so it is very accurate, but you definitely want to do both free and total in case your sh VG is too high. And then test your DHEA sulfate in blood test your sex hormone binding globulin so we see if it's elevated, because one of the things that's happening right now is that a lot of women are fasting and fasting like hardcore fasting one meal a day two meals a day and they've been doing this for a long time, or they've been eating a really low carb diet or and when they're fasting and not eating that much. They're also really low on protein. So low protein diets, low carb diets, too much fasting we'll all raise sh VG, because it makes sense. If we were back in hunter gatherer days and there wasn't a lot of food around so we're fasting right? Then the body is being told don't get pregnant. There's not a lot of food around So as hBg naturally would go up, because there's a food shortage, so it wants to bind up your testosterone bind up your Astra dye, and so that you can't get pregnant. And so too much of that starts to signal to the system, don't get pregnant, which is really the only reason why we're here. So your body's kind of compensate for this, whether you like it or not, it's aware of whether you want kids or not, or care about being fertile. This is what happens. So we have to be really careful with that. So testing, that's a good idea.

Philip Pape 20:31

So a couple of things, because I actually just put together a new episode about carbs coming out. And one of the interesting things about a higher carb diet was the increase in testosterone to cortisol ratio that they've seen, not, in addition to the increase in IGF one that you talked about, so the fasting and the low carb or the low protein. Are you saying that that, in general, for most women that's not recommended because of this? Or what are you saying there?

Karen Martel 20:54

It's a fine line is what I'm saying. Because we also become more insulin resistance resistant because of the drop in hormones as we age, which means intermittent fasting, can be a really, really important tool to start implementing, because we need help being insulin sensitive. It's that women are taking it too far. They get results. And then they're like, Oh, my God, and then they stop getting results. And they think I better do it harder, longer. Right? Like I bet, I'm eating two meals a day, I'm very one meal a day, oh, I should be doing a 36 hour fast or a five day fast. And you hear this from a lot of like, the big practitioners that are out there on social media saying that, you know, do five day fast once a month, you know, do 136 hour fast every single week. And I'm like, No, most women can't handle that, especially in menopause, it stresses the system out too much. So you have to find that balance, you have to know where your cortisol levels are, you have to know where your insulin that so testing, of course, is super important. And we don't, we don't want to guess what's happening in the body. So some women that are insulin resistant, their cortisol is okay, or let's say it's high, then I would probably say You know what, you need to be intermittent fasting more, but you still want to make sure you're getting in the protein. Because if not, then that sh VG will go up, and it'll bind up those hormones. The other thing that will raise it is thyroid hormones. So if somebody is on thyroid medication, which a lot of women are, they don't realize that that's actually binding up their hormones and sending them into menopause early, which is something that happened to myself and nobody told me. And I was like, why is what's going on my total levels of estradiol and testosterone are great, but yet I'm missing a period. I'm getting hot flashes, low libido. And then I finally heard Peter Atea, on who's huge. He was on Huberman lab podcast, and he was talking about thyroid medication raising sh VG and I'm like, Frick, why isn't anybody talking about this? Like how many women are on thyroid hormones? So many of

Philip Pape 23:01

you? Yeah, is this is why women are so frustrated, right? Because it's I can just imagine, like, a piano of keys. And every single key is like a different hormone. And as soon as you press one, the other one goes up or down. And they're also interrelated. Right? And yeah, even the thing about energy availability, which shameless plug that's what we talked about on your podcast, when when my episode comes out energy availability, is that you you need the energy there to support your hormones, but you don't want so much energy that you're gaining a ton of weight, right? And that's where it's like this balance for women.

Karen Martel 23:35

Like cannot be we got to get away from this one size fits all because even though we know that we're still doing it, majority of women are still going what's the next best diet out there? And trying it? And oh, everybody's doing keto. Well, I'm gonna do keto. And it's like, but is that a good fit for you? Like where's your thyroid hours? Your adrenal system, our your hormones, like you got to look at this full picture and then decide, okay, I'm, you know, inflamed. I've got PCOS, I'm insulin resistant. And yeah, keto could be great. And it could reverse all of those things. But then you want to, you know, start carb cycling and you know, there's there's a lot of nuances to it, and everybody has to find what's going to work for them. So

Philip Pape 24:18

going back to the bloodwork free, and total testosterone DHEA Soulfire. SP, Bg. What else just needs

Karen Martel 24:25

PG. Yep. And then of course, you want to test your estrogen progesterone as well. Because there is some some evidence that shows that women should actually be like if you're going to replace your hormones in perimenopause and menopause. There is some some research that shows it's actually better to replace estrogen and progesterone first for three months, then put in the testosterone. So I always want to see that full picture. The other way that I want people to test is through urine metabolite testing Now, oddly enough, testosterone is actually the least accurate on urine metabolite test dates. So you think, Okay, well, then why are you saying that we should do this, Karen? Well, in a Dutch test, which is dried urine hormone testing, we have testosterone on there, we've got the DHEA sulfate on there. But if you have a genetic snip, or you're missing these enzymes called the UG T enzymes, you won't pee out that testosterone. So it looks like you have none, when you actually have plenty. So I always want women to do bloodwork on the same day or the next day. So that we can compare the two just in case is more common in Asian backgrounds. So if you're, you've got, you know, if you're Asian yourself, or you've got Asian in your family history, then you may not have that enzyme. I don't have it. So I always look like I have low testosterone. But the other piece of the puzzle that we want to see on a urine metabolite test that bloodwork won't show is something called Five alpha reductase enzyme. And so there's a fan gauge on the Dutch test and there's five betta, and there's five alpha, if you are leaning towards a five Alpha pathway. So the on the fan gauge, if your way over to the five alpha, it means you convert your testosterone at a higher rate to what's called Dihydrotestosterone which is the most androgenic out of all the androgens and so that's where we'll see women if they go on to sauce from replacements, then the if that goes up the DHT goes up, they start having the hair loss the greasy skin, the acne and so that's not that's not pleasant when we can get whispers Have you know Korean start growing the cattiness as I call it so your your peed your clitoris can actually start to get longer. And you? Yeah. Which is not fun. And I've heard of women this happening to their voice cracking. And just from being on testosterone replacement, that's if

Philip Pape 27:09

you lean more toward the Alpha side. Yep. And does that mean you shouldn't be taking therapy if that's the case, we just have to modulate it be more careful the dosage.

Karen Martel 27:17

Exactly. And you have to possibly take something that's going to stop that conversion. So it blocks the five alpha reductase pathway. There's herbals that do it. There's also medication, finasteride and dutasteride that will block that conversion. So a lot of women will take the medication so that they can get the benefits of testosterone without having the masculine features. But there's lots of that like Saw Palmetto is really good for it. Pumpkin seed, there's a bunch of different things zinc that can help with that.

27:51

Before my coaching session with Philip, I was really struggling with staying consistent with my nutrition, Phillip really showed me the importance of being consistent day to day, he also helped me see that it's not a bad thing to take a rest day, he really helps me get in that more positive headspace of a rest day being something really good for me. I've been doing this for a month now. And I'm finally starting to see some progress and my numbers. And I'm really excited about that. And I just appreciate so much the help that Philip has given me. He's always willing to answer questions to offer resources that are totally free and very, very helpful. So I just want to say how much I appreciate that. Thanks, Philip.

Philip Pape 28:37

This is all fascinating. Let's continue the story here. Right. So we've talked about testing, we talked about natural supplementation. Now we talked about testosterone therapy in more detail. So we're what are the options women have then you do that.

Karen Martel 28:51

So we have pellets which are becoming very popular. There's a lot of pellet clinics now for both men and women. So pellets are these little tiny seed looking, they look like a seed and they get implanted into your butt. And then they're good. They will release testosterone for three months, sometimes six months. Not my favorite, and I'll explain why. But besides that injection, which is my favorite, we can do cream topical cream on the on the skin. And we can do tro keys and we can do oral so a TRO key is a little like you suck on like you put it down in stick it down in your gums and you just let it dissolve. And it's they they think they're going to tell you that, oh, we're just going to absorb into the saliva glands and go into the system. When actually you've you're going to swallow about half of that and that's a problem. So as soon as you start swallowing testosterone, so whether you're taking it as an oral capsule, or you're putting the tro key in your gum, then it's going to raise sh VG and that's going to then bind up The testosterone and estrogen so and it also can cause inflammation because it has to go through the first hepatic pass of the liver. So we, it's, it's the worst way to take testosterone is oral. So never ever do it orally, pellets. The problem with Palace is once they're inserted, you can't get them out, you have to wait for them to dissolve. And it takes about three months. And I have seen so many women who have done pellets who have a negative reaction. So maybe they go down that DHT pathway. And I see them lose their hair, they gain weight, they get greasy skin, cystic acne, we get super water retentive, and they've got to just sit and wait for it to come out. Which is horrible. And sound like I've talked to him in the game like 20 pounds in three months being on pellet therapy. Like that's how bad it can be. So if you're going to do pellet, I ask that you first do a different method. So you know how your body's going to react. Interesting. Yeah. Most people that are trained in pellet therapy, it's a bit of a cash grab so expensive. It's they're not trained to both female hormones like I have yet to come across a really good pellet. Doctor, I know they're out there. Don't get me wrong. I think they're definitely there's some out there. But there's a lot that are horrible. And they don't know anything about the female hormonal system. And it's all testosterone, testosterone, testosterone. And they, these pellets are in such high doses, that they're really androgen Ising women. And so you'll, you'll do their blood work a month in and it'll be hundreds, like top end of the range is 50. I've seen women in the 400 range being on pellets, and they're getting whiskers, they're your voice is crap. Like not, this is not good. We don't, we're not men, we're not trying to, you know, transition to men. So we have to be very careful. And these doctors, these Pella doctors, a lot of them, they won't give estrogen estradiol, or they maybe we'll give progesterone, but they they're very focused on that. Like, let's get your testosterone sky high. And I just don't agree with that. And so injection seems to be the best. I've worked with hundreds of 1000s of women. Now with testosterone therapy, I've seen I've run the gamut of each and each of these things. I've seen what what it looks like on labs, and injections seems to be the the best way to get your levels up to and to absorb it and take it into the system. For some reason cream. It does, it doesn't work as well. It still works. But I find you have to use a higher dose of cream to get the same levels that you would by using injection. So injection you do like a once or twice a week shot. And it really does seem to work well for raising a woman's testosterone. And if it's too much, then you can lower it like the next week if you want to, which is great. So if you're getting some negative symptoms, no problem. Let's lower it same with cream, we can reduce that dosage is great. Cream is awesome, too. It can be really helpful especially for sex. I always recommend to women that are having some sexual dysfunction and dry vagina. When women start to go through menopause and perimenopause, they can have really subpar orgasms when they used to have these great orgasms and then suddenly they're like, What the frick was that? Like? And so to start from rubbed actually on your labia includes Varas prior to sex can actually really help a woman to have a proper orgasm. And it's key to transfer that to your your your male partner. That's interesting. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Philip Pape 33:51

Okay, so stay away from pellets most likely, unless you test them out first. The turkeys is oral don't That's the worst way. topical cream could work. But you need more of it. And then there's libido aspect. And then the injections are the best. And these are tiny needles put in your muscle tissue, right?

Karen Martel 34:08

Yeah, yeah, you can do sub q, or you can do muscle. I personally do sub q because I don't know it's a bit bigger of a needle to go inter muscular. But most of you can handle it. I'm a bit of a chicken.

Philip Pape 34:23

Now, you know, I imagine people select these other options simply because they don't want to get to inject themselves. So we just had to try to assuage their fears that this is super, I imagine, right? Like yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so great. Now, we talked about treatment, going back to the symptoms and the testing, is the testing the exclusive way you're determining that you need it, or is there a symptom aspect to it? I know for men, it's definitely a combination of the two usually.

Karen Martel 34:49

Yeah, so what's interesting is some women come into this world being more androgenic and some are more estrogenic and this has to do with our DNA genetics, right, so when you get a genetic profile, you can actually see if you are more androgenic or estrogenic. And that means that your body will depend on that hormone more than the other than the average woman. So, I always use me and my sister as an example, I was born into this world very estrogenic. So I had a history of endometriosis. I've got ovarian cysts, I'm very curvaceous, I've got breasts, I've got hips, I gotta, but I'm always prone to weight gain. And then you look at my sister, and she's like this little tiny being pool that can eat as much as she wants and never gain a single pound. She's super wiry, she maintains muscle, she's got a great libido, and she just will never gain weight. Like it's crazy. And so when her testosterone drops, she really feels that when I lose my testosterone, I don't notice it that much. Okay, it's like, okay, yeah, you know, and so when I put it back in, like, I noticed difference in the muscle and little bit with the libido. And, you know, it's like, yeah, I can feel it a little bit. But for her, she takes us around, and it's like, oh, like, she just, you know, it's amazing, because she's more androgenic. So your levels could look like they're in range. But if that's low for you, and you're getting symptoms of low testosterone, and so somebody would maybe be gaining weight. Fatigue is a big one, foggy brain, testosterone is really important for our heart, our breasts, our bones. And so if you start to see these problems coming, and your testosterone is not, you know, in a good, it's not in that upper third quartile on the range, that may not be then not seeing that, that you probably don't have enough for you. And so you want to maybe start supplementing with a little bit of testosterone. So we want to always test but we also want to go by how somebody's feeling. And so if there's, if those symptoms are arising, and that person's not being able to put on muscle tissue, they've noticed a big drop in their libido. And, you know, they're really foggy brain, and they're super tired. And it gives a woman, I always say this, it gives you your, your, your balls, your lady balls. And when I say that, I mean, it gives you your drive. And that like I'm gonna go out there and get stuff done. And I'm gonna, you know, so for business women, and for women that are like in that kind of, go, go go. Lifestyle, it can be really important for you to have that testosterone at a good level. And even just stay at home moms. I mean, we all know how stressful that is, and how tired I think that's a harder job than being a high up businesswoman.

Philip Pape 37:46

No comment, I mean, all women in the world that are working hard at something or you know, to be valued, they're all working.

Karen Martel 37:51

Yeah. So so women can really notice it with their, with that fatigue, and just not feeling like they want to get stuff done in their life. And they just like, have that low self esteem and that there's just no get up and go. So that can be testosterone. Yeah,

Philip Pape 38:09

no, I wanted to ask, because there's there big differences between men and women and how they, how they feel these differences. Like for men, it's like, do you feel more like a woman than your testosterone is low? It's kind of like simplified like that. Are you crying? Or are you sad, or all these other things, but what you describe is a little more unique set of symptoms for women, given women have like a fraction of testosterone men and you're already not androgenic to begin with. So it's not like you'd necessarily notice that difference, right? Yeah. So combining the testing with the symptoms is a great strategy. Of course. Yeah.

Karen Martel 38:39

What about? Yeah, they do use it. Like some women will report like, absolutely incredible results. Like they're just like, they love their testosterone, because they're like, oh, my gosh, I feel like I'm alive. Again, I can get out there, I can exercise, I have energy, I feel amazing. And it also for women with breast a history of breast cancer, it won't convert into estrogen and the breast tissue. So you can actually use testosterone therapy safely. If you have a history of breast cancer, you will of course, want to talk to your oncologist about that.

Philip Pape 39:12

And how young, not how young is too young. But at what age should a woman get tested? Even if they don't have symptoms? What's a good like baseline age?

Karen Martel 39:21

In your 20s or 30s? Early 30s? Yeah, because we start to see testosterone going down typically in mid 30s. In women, sometimes in your 40s. It'll start but that's when we start to lose most of our hormones were returned, we tend to go into Peri menopause, which is the beginning of the loss of these hormones and ovarian function between the ages of 35 and 40. So we want to get a baseline when you're feeling good is is a great idea. So if you're in your 20s, early 30s And you don't have any symptoms of low testosterone, yeah, go get it tested now so that when you start aging and going into perimenopause and you start losing that libido and muscle tissue, you can then testing Compare and be like, oh, so it was 40 when I was in my 20s. But yet, look at it. Now it's at 14. And so clearly, I need to boost it and get it up to 40. So I can feel like I did when I was in my 20s

Philip Pape 40:12

is that it's relative to you? What? So let me ask you this question, when would a traditional doctor or GP recommend that you get this tested? Never. There you go. You got to own your health people got to take control of this stuff. Yeah. So true. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I know, that's what you're all about. And anybody listening knows that. But still, we got to do that. Yeah. I'll

Karen Martel 40:33

just tell you, Oh, yeah, you're in range. You know, the range for women is if they even get tested, if they even even get a test. It's like, no, no, you're

Philip Pape 40:41

30 you're too young. That's what they'll say.

Karen Martel 40:43

It's ridiculous. Like, you're free testosterone. If you're between like, point five and five, you're good. What. And then they like total testosterone. If you're between like 10 and 15. It's like, oh, like, we want to see you in that upper range, mid range and above, with total testosterone and free testosterone at around three or four. So keep that in mind when you go to get tested. Because your doctor is going to be like, you're great. You're in range, even though you're like point one away from being flagged as too low. They'll tell you, you're fine.

Philip Pape 41:16

Right. And there's so much of that in life with like the minimums, you know, it's like, we're not trying to just survive and get by here people, right?

Karen Martel 41:22

Yes, we're optimizing for? Yes. So yes, and I'm gonna just say to something that I, I really, really try to get across to women, is, once you lose ovarian function, which typically you'll start to really drop in progesterone first, you can start slowly dropping into dosterone, and then in your mid 40s, to 50, then we drop in estrogen dial. There's no amount of dieting, exercising, fasting, that will bring back ovarian function. So as even though testosterone is one of the one of them that we still will be producing a lot of the time out of our adrenal system, most women's adrenal systems are shot as we discussed. So you really want to like if the natural stuff doesn't work? Yeah, please keep in mind that there's no way to bring back ovarian function, you can come back to supplement your way out of not obviously, like out of the low of your ovulation and the low eggs like you can't bring back a cow, you can't bring back ovulation is going to end, we used to die at 45. That was the average age for women. So as we started going into menopause, we typically die. Now we're living longer than ever. And so without these vital hormones, you can only get so far with your health. Because you're missing all of these hormones that are crucial for so much more than just sex and procreation. We need these hormones for like I said, testosterone is super important for bones. And you know, if you have a hip fracture, you have a 50% chance of dying within the year. Like that's crazy. Osteoporosis, like you will get osteoporosis if you don't replace your hormones, we need them. And so the alternative alternatives is of course, medication, a lot of women will get depressed anxiety ridden from losing these vital hormones. And so I just want everybody to keep that in mind. The research shows that women that replace their hormones, as you know, mainly estradiol, progesterone, and testosterone, have a third over 30% reduction in all cause mortality. We know that heart disease can can be reduced by like 49%, which is the number one killer of women. It reduces cardiac mortality by 49%. That's crazy. So in Alzheimer's, we just a great study came out a couple years ago on like, I think it was like 400,000 women that show women that replaced estradiol for six years or longer had, you know, 75 to 80% reduction in developing Alzheimer's. So in testosterone is really important for the brain as well. So we just want to keep that in mind that it's not just about libido and there's just so much of that. The biohacking that we can do to bring back those levels and so just keep that in mind. Yeah,

Philip Pape 44:28

it's a it's like a battery that's capacity keeps dropping and dropping and dropping, you can only charge it's even if you do everything perfectly, it only charges 50% Then you can only charge it to 25% You need this extra battery I guess from the TRT and the replacement therapy

Karen Martel 44:43

to like yeah, for sure. men lose their testosterone like women, but you know, like we drop in hormones far more than you guys do. But there is menopause and that is the loss of DHEA you can lose your progesterone your estrogen or testosterone in Those are vitally important especially of course to sauce throne for men. And so you really want to watch that if you're not waking up with an erection in the morning if you're having poor orgasms if you're you know, have erectile dysfunction, just depression for men, high cholesterol, high insulin, fasting insulin and blood glucose. These are all signs that you could possibly use a little bit of a testosterone boost as well.

Philip Pape 45:25

For sure. I mean, in for men, it's like if you're training well for eating well get your blood tested, you've got the things covered, you still may need TRT and it's good to have that baseline no matter whatever age you are. Same thing with women 30 years old is great. Get it then every five years or so see what happens. Yes. And treat it and once you start treatment, you have to be on it for life. But that makes sense because it's not coming back. Yeah.

Karen Martel 45:47

And you know, your men think Oh, but if I start using it, then that's it. I'll never have to start trying again. But actually, it shows that in about a month after stopping TRT, your levels will come back to where they were they were Yeah. Which

Philip Pape 46:01

were probably inadequate. That's why you took TRT if there's no harm Yeah, yeah, exactly. Okay, what about, we talked about the androgenic symptoms, are there any other side effects symptoms women should be aware of that would be indicated by too high of a dosage or potentially misalignment with their therapy.

Karen Martel 46:20

Weight Gain is insulin can go up blood sugar can go up. That's like the common PCOS polycystic ovarian syndrome, which is the leading cause of infertility in women right now. That is too high of those androgens as we discussed, and so you could lose your period, you have blood sugar problems, not ovulating. And then with all the other ones on top of that, like the hair loss is a huge one, especially if you've got too much DHEA will cause a lot of hair loss and acne. Same with the testosterone loss. So, I mean, too much of the too much testosterone too much DHEA will cause the hair loss and cause the acne. You can get dark hair on your arms. Dark hair where you know, just in places you don't want it so more hair growth on the body but less hair on the head, which sucks. I think that's it. Yeah, that's a scary. Yeah, we'll we'll get swollen. Yeah. Which is very uncomfortable. So I have heard that from a few women when they're on too much testosterone. Very uncomfortable. They're everything kind of in gorgeous down below.

Philip Pape 47:31

So that the message is get tested and modify your dosing as appropriate. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay. What, um, what's in the future for all of this? Like, is there are there any big changes coming in in terms of either the the approaches or the therapy itself?

Karen Martel 47:47

Not that I've heard of, unfortunately, it's still there isn't a lot for what to research for women. And to actually, it was just at a conference over the weekend, and a woman that would did one of the talks said that it wasn't till 1993 that women were even allowed to be in scientific research studies. Because we could get pregnant. And so the we're all we've only just been in studies for hormone. Like, it's crazy. For a lot of things, a lot of things. For everything. Yeah, true. Yeah. Not just crazy. Hormones. Yeah. Yeah.

Philip Pape 48:25

How do we know about myself? So it's changing,

Karen Martel 48:29

but very slowly. Yeah. And so it's just about educating women about the importance of their hormones, and that testosterone is one that you really want to watch, because it can really help with, you know, just overall vitality and beating well. It'll

Philip Pape 48:45

be ironic or maybe appropriate, if one day insurance companies realize, hey, if we had gotten on this sooner with hormone therapy, we wouldn't have such high costs of all the effects of you know, this added weight gain and stress on the system and poor health that are related hormones, but you know, they don't think long term

Karen Martel 49:01

make money. It doesn't make money. So yes, right. Yeah, that's right. Keep us sick. Yeah, it's unfortunate. Yeah, it's good to work with a good hormone practitioners, you know, not somebody that's in it just to you know, it's like the these pellet clinics or like the wars for just kind of how many people can we get through here? It's not, it's there's no holistic approach. You know, you want to work with somebody that's going to find what's going to work for you and be able to, you know, if you start getting these masculine symptoms that they know what to do, and that they're not forgetting about these other very crucial hormones, because they all work synergistically together. And so we want to look at everything.

Philip Pape 49:39

And Karen is and I know she wasn't trying to plug herself a carrot is one of these wonderful people in the world that do that. And I've

Karen Martel 49:46

I'm just trying to find me you just find somebody

Philip Pape 49:50

true and especially depends on where you live like in the US versus Canada, you might have different access to different things because I've heard some people here do get coverage for certain things that you might not in Canada and vice versus So yep, educate. Exactly. All right. So is there any other question you wish I had asked here, related to testosterone or anything else,

Karen Martel 50:08

I guess maybe how what I have to offer which we I do work with a team of doctors who run the ER, focuses on testosterone. And so we, we can prescribe in every state, which is really cool. We can prescribe in Alberta and British Columbia, and soon to be Ontario and Canada. Because and I want to say that not to plug myself but because testosterone is extremely challenging to get for women met normal medical doctor, your medical doctor doesn't know how to prescribe it for women. They're just like, oh, I have no clue what to do here. Like they're not trained in menopause. They're not trained in perimenopause. I've heard they get like, let like less than 7% of doctors are trained in menopause in med school. So you're gonna have a very hard time finding, finding a mainstream medical doctor who will properly prescribe you hormone replacement therapy. So I

Philip Pape 51:09

just I just have to back that statement up. I've never heard and this is anecdotally from so many clients and women in my life who have GPS, male or female GPS, but even males who just, they're 60 years old, and they've been working with how many patients all these decades. And it's like they they're clueless. It's crazy. It's there's no continued education, there's just nothing. So we have people

Karen Martel 51:34

to become educated in bioidentical hormone therapy, they actually have to pay for the course or courses. There's a lot of incentivized Yeah, no, it's not taught in med school. They they're all going by old studies that were falsely represented. And like, there's so much horrible things that are going on the medical system for women's health. And so what they will give you what they will give you is a depressant

Philip Pape 51:59

or the birth of general, when you're 14, they'll give you that. Okay, yep. Yeah, which causes

Karen Martel 52:03

way more risk for breast cancer. And anyway, like, it's, it's terrible. That's a whole nother episode.

Philip Pape 52:09

I talked about that last night, actually.

Karen Martel 52:12

You can go back and listen to that. But yeah, it's very challenging. And women need to realize that their medical doctor sure go give it a shot, because a lot of it's covered problems. So try. So it was good to try to see if they'll work with you. But if they don't, then let it go. And don't get angry at the medical system. And I had somebody recently message me and say, I'm so mad that I have to pay for this. And it's like, well, it but you have to realize that doctors aren't trained in this. So they're not the people that we should be going to for it. Unless they've said that this is their specialty, which our doctors are they specialize in hormone replacement therapy, they've properly been properly trained. I've been properly trained by nurse practitioners improperly trained, you know, so you want to find somebody that has been specifically trained in bioidentical hormone therapy. And it's likely not your family doctor.

Philip Pape 53:12

And like you said, Everything related to wellness versus sickness, everything related to wellness, you probably have to take into your own hands, whether it's your nutrition, your exercise, your hormones, you see, it's all starting to connect. Right. Cool. So then where can listeners learn about you? Where do you want them to reach out to you?

Karen Martel 53:31

Yeah, so we've got you know, we've we've made sure that we've been able to help any woman that wants to get the help. So we have different tiers, we've got, you know, high ends, four month packages, where you get that one on one, help you get your prescriptions, you get your hormones, etc. And then we also have group coaching, the group coaching program has been going for about six years, we've got almost 200 Women in it. And you can get a lot of help through that we have weekly group coaching calls, where we'll look at your labs and give you recommendations to take to your doctor or to your prescriber and say, Hey, this is what you know, they've recommended I need some estrogen, I need to assess your own and then we've also got, you know, nurse practitioners that you can book with and take the recommendations to and they'll prescribe it and then I'll also I'm coming up with my own line of over the counter hormones so that women can get them even even if they don't have a lot of money. Now you can't. You can't buy testosterone counter, right? You can estradiol and progesterone, which are very key for replacing when you're in perimenopause and menopause to mitigate those symptoms and to have optimal health. So I've created my own line so that women can just get it without the prescription. If they feel they need it. Is cosmetic cream. It's not Yeah, yes. Is

Philip Pape 54:52

that your website? katimorton.com. It's, it's coming. I

Karen Martel 54:55

don't know when this is being aired, but it'll be here by the end of the year.

Philip Pape 54:58

Okay, so this is A whole brand new place to find all this. Okay. All right, yeah, even even with coaching everything else, we're not using your website. There's another. No

Karen Martel 55:07

right now it's gonna just be on my website. character.com. Yeah. And then social media. I'm Karen Martell hormones and then the podcast is the hormone solution.

Philip Pape 55:15

Yeah. Right. And that was you renamed that few months back, right? Yeah.

Karen Martel 55:21

Their site of weight loss. And now it's a hormone solution podcast because it was just so much to do with hormones.

Philip Pape 55:27

Well, this episode comes out in early January. So if you have any updates, we can connect and put it in there, folks. Cool. This has been a pleasure. I'm glad we got to go really deep into this one area of testosterone. So important, not talked about enough. And it's been awesome to have you on so thank you.

Karen Martel 55:42

Thanks for having me on.

Philip Pape 55:45

Philip Pape 1/2/24 Philip Pape 1/2/24

Ep 134: A Simple Tweak to Increase Your Metabolism, Hormones, Fat Loss, Workouts, and Sleep

Are you struggling to achieve your health and fitness goals despite following your diet and exercise routine? Do you feel like something is holding you back? In this episode, Philip (@witsandweights) talks about stress, its impact on health and fitness goals, and how to reduce or cope with it effectively. He gives a lot of attention to nutrition, training, and even sleep, and he talks about how sometimes stress can be the hidden barrier to unlocking a higher metabolism, more effortless fat loss, increased energy, and better health. Philip dives into practical, evidence-based strategies to identify and mitigate stress in the context of both physical and mental health.

Are you struggling to achieve your health and fitness goals despite following your diet and exercise routine? Do you feel like something is holding you back?

Happy New Year! In this first episode of 2024, Philip (@witsandweights) talks about stress, its impact on health and fitness goals, and how to reduce or cope with it effectively. He gives a lot of attention to nutrition, training, and even sleep, and he talks about how sometimes stress can be the hidden barrier to unlocking a higher metabolism, more effortless fat loss, increased energy, and better health. Philip dives into practical, evidence-based strategies to identify and mitigate stress in the context of both physical and mental health.

Philip also created a free Stress Solution Guide to accompany this episode that you can download at witsandweights.com/free or click here for direct access.

Episode summary:

Stress is a universal challenge that often goes unrecognized, particularly when we pursue health and fitness goals. In a recent podcast episode, we take a deep dive into the covert world of stress, unraveling its subtle yet profound impact on our well-being. The episode isn't merely a discussion about stress but offers a treasure trove of actionable advice and strategies for resilience and management.

Listeners are introduced to the concept of stress as a hidden barrier to fitness success, learning about its capacity to derail metabolism, disrupt hormonal balance, and lead to counterproductive behaviors like unhealthy snacking. The episode acknowledges the different ways individuals experience stress, emphasizing the importance of understanding personal stress triggers and supportive strategies within relationships.

The episode delves into the physiological and psychological effects of stress. Listeners gain an understanding of how chronic stress can impact sleep patterns, dietary choices, and even gut health, which in turn affects gym performance and body composition. This knowledge serves as a powerful tool for listeners to begin recognizing and addressing their stress responses.

The podcast doesn't stop at identification; it provides a range of techniques for stress reduction. From engaging in creative pursuits and cultivating social connections to spending time in nature and organizing one's environment, the advice is practical and varied. Listeners are encouraged to pick one simple action to reduce stress, ensuring the approach is accessible and not overwhelming.

Nutrition, a key aspect of stress management, is also addressed. The episode highlights the role of maintaining adequate caloric intake and balancing macronutrients, with carbohydrates playing a significant part in managing stress levels. Real-life examples from the community underscore the personalized nature of stress management, showcasing unique methods like photography and heavy lifting as stress-relievers.

The episode rounds out with a discussion of advanced stress management techniques like yoga, cleaning, and Transcendental Meditation. These methods, while potentially more involved, offer additional tools for those looking to deepen their stress reduction practice. The host also touches upon the potential of supplements like ashwagandha and magnesium to support stress management, though emphasizing lifestyle changes as the primary focus.

The episode closes with a reminder to listeners to select one stress management technique that resonates with them, incorporating it into their routine. The provision of a free stress solution guide further extends the episode's resources, offering listeners a structured approach to tackling stress.

In summary, the podcast episode serves as an essential guide for anyone looking to improve their health and fitness by managing the omnipresent challenge of stress. It acknowledges the complexity of stress, provides a wealth of strategies for combating it, and encourages personalization and simplicity in approach, all with the goal of enabling listeners to achieve their fitness and wellness goals without the hindrance of unmanaged stress.

Today you’ll learn all about:

3:19 Recent 5-star reviews on the podcast
6:31 What is stress?
11:08 Acute vs. chronic stress
12:54 What creates more stress
14:41 The effects of stress
18:55 The physiology of the stress response
21:20 Pick one thing
23:18 Self-therapy
24:54 Social connection
25:39 Spending time in nature or outdoors
26:16 Planning or organizing
27:07 Optimizing nutrition and training
30:27 Ideas on managing stress from the community
38:52 More stress management ideas
43:53 Outro

Episode resources:

Free Stress Solution Guide
Mindfulness Special: Relaxing Guided Session to Manage Stress and Anxiety with Allen Friedman
Shoutout to the Sam Miller Science podcast (inspiration for episode)

Have you followed the podcast?

Get notified of new episodes. Use your favorite podcast platform or one of the buttons below. Then hit “Subscribe” or “Follow” and you’re good to go!

Transcript

Philip Pape 00:00

Maybe you've dialed in your nutrition, training and sleep, but you're still not getting the results you want. It could be that one thing in particular is holding you back and you don't even know it. In today's episode, we are uncovering how a simple tweak can revolutionize your metabolic health hormones, fat loss workouts and sleep to push you past those plateaus. Stick around to learn what it is and what you can do about it. Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in. Wits & Weights community Welcome to another solo episode of the Wits & Weights podcast in our last episode which was last year, Episode 133. Making fitness fun again through adventure with Kelly Howard, we talked about how the spirit of adventure can revitalize your fitness journey. You learn how to overcome common hurdles to staying consistent with your fitness goals, external versus internal motivation and how to embrace a sense of fun and adventure to reignite your passion for fitness. Today for episode 134. The first of 2024 a simple tweak to increase your metabolism hormones, fat loss workouts and sleep Yes, everything we are talking about stress, especially stress has impact on your health and fitness goals, and how to reduce or cope with it effectively. We give lots of attention to nutrition training and even sleep. But sometimes stress is the hidden barrier. It's just lurking there in your life. And it's the hidden barrier to unlocking a higher metabolism, easier fat loss, increased energy and better health. Today we're going to dive into practical evidence based strategies to identify and mitigate stress in the context of both physical and mental health. Now I do want to give a shout out to Sam Miller of the Samel or Science Podcast, who recently did a very detailed multi episode series on stress that inspired this episode. And I also want to give a shout out to many of my clients and members of the Wits & Weights Facebook community who contributed ideas for how to manage stress that we're going to include in this episode, so many creative ideas, including one of my own that I just discovered today that would be helpful that I will be sharing. And those are later on in the episode. Now, as you're listening to the show, don't stress. And by the way, listen to the show at 1x. Don't go faster. I know many of us, myself included, listen to it faster, calm it down, listen to it at 1x. And now you see what I just did there Right? Trying to help you reduce your stress, even as you listen to this podcast. But don't stress because I created a free stress solution guide to go along with this episode. And of course, you can download that at wits & weights.com/free or click the link in my show notes. Again, that's wits & weights.com/free Or just click the link under episode resources in the shownotes. Now before we dive in to this episode about stress, I wanted to share a few recent five star reviews from Apple podcasts. If you want your review featured on the show, it's very simple. Just screenshot it and tag me at Wits & Weights and I will make sure absolutely to give you a shout out in this part of the show. All right. The first review is from emotionally healthy legacy. Elizabeth says helpful resource for someone who wants to lose weight the healthy way and sustain it. This is a great resource for both men and women. The host really seems to know what he's talking about. Very knowledgeable. I'm glad I gave you that impression. Elizabeth I do try. And that is really the goal of this show is sustainability. So and for men and women, so I'm glad you liked it. The next step the next review is by careless down to earth knowledgeable, be new to weightlifting. I found this podcast to be straightforward, practical and super informative. The community is also fantastic, uplifting and positive folks, Philip is very responsive to questions and offers tons of tips for both beginners and more experienced weight lifters. This has become my go to podcast for all things fitness.

Philip Pape 04:31

You don't know what that means to me it really genuinely when I hear something like that I'm I'm still shocked a little bit of impostor syndrome. I'll admit that someone would make this like their main fitness podcast but that is where I'm trying to go with this. And also the fact that our community is uplifting and positive. If you join the Wits & Weights Facebook community that is exactly how it is. We will kick you out if you're if you're a meanie, but if you're helping people out you're positive you get to hang around Like minded folks that are trying to do the same. And then the last review is by Maggie de I think is how you pronounce it. Love the research and science as a guy looking to book Getting scientifically backed workout content is Big Love. The carbs episode might explain a thing or two. Winky face emoji was recommended through a website, but I'll be sticking around. Thank you so much. I always love again to hear someone who discovers a podcast, find it valuable, and wants to stick around. And of course, anybody listening, if you want to leave a review, just go to Apple podcasts. And it's pretty easy to do. Take a screenshot and tag me in definitely share this episode with a friend if you found it valuable. Alright, we're gonna get into today's topic, a simple tweak to increase your metabolism hormones, fat loss workouts, and sleep and we're talking about stress, the simple tweak is stress. Now I know it doesn't sound simple to all of us. Some of us have extremely full, busy, hectic, crazy lives, however you want to describe it. And I realized, as I'm recording this episode, I was walking the dogs, I was taking them for a walk. It's the very last day of the week before Christmas. And I thought this week was going to be less stressful than others. Now, my tolerance for stress is fairly high. Wherever that comes from, I don't know, I've had this sense my whole life that no matter how bad things get, they're gonna get better. And somehow that grounds me, and I'm grateful to have that inherent in me or training me or from my parents or whomever. But I can see the contrast between people and the amount of stress that they perceive. Now we're going to talk about what stress is how it impacts us, and then how to manage it. But I just wanted to connect with you, as a listener personally, that everyone's level of stress is different. Some people have way more stress anxiety than others, either naturally or because of their circumstances. It really helps. Of course, like in my case, my wife, she gets really stressed out by certain things that I don't and vice versa. So for example, you know, if you if I had to just all of a sudden do all the chores around the house right now, that would, that would raise my blood pressure, like I would get stressed about it. My wife loves doing that stuff, which kind of works out right, we she stays at home, and it works out for me. I do the financials and the business and a whole bunch of other things. And we have a shared kind of partnership. But that would stress me out. If her mouse stops clicking on her computer and doing what she wants. She just she she'll freak out, right? And she knows, this is the case, if she's listening to this, she'll come to me and be very frustrated, you know, express her frustration, like why is this happening now? I can't deal with this, can you fix it and it becomes this huge thing. But I understand that about her right. And so I understand I want to be calm and go over there. Alright, sweetie, let me fix it. Let me see what's going on. And I kind of keep her out of it, I fix it, hopefully. And then you know, she's back in the picture. And we're good to go. So everybody's stressed by different things. I realized this week that I had cleared my calendar a little bit, not as much as I wanted, but I cleared it a bit so that I could get caught up on podcasts and some stuff for my business take care of some fun, creative ideas I had. But you know, what always happens with me is as soon as I leave a gap in my schedule, even if I tell myself even if I put in my calendar and set myself a reminder that this is going to be downtime. I'm going to chill out on the couch and watch Netflix, I'm going to go for a walk, I'm going to just veg out do something fun. You know what happens? I fill in that time I just do I get a crazy idea as I'm walking around the house. Oh, I gotta do something about that. Forget the hour of downtime, I've got an hour now why don't I use it up. And so the weekends have been fuller than I expected. And so I know for a fact that this contributes to a higher level of chronic stress in my life than I would have otherwise. Now whether I can handle it cope with it, you know it whether or not it's affecting my health in a big way, that that's hard to tell. That's part of what we're gonna get into today of how can you even tell? And what can you do about it, but I want you to know that we all face stress, okay? And don't assume the person next to you because they have you know, more kids and more obligations or, or they're single and have no obligations that they have more or less stress, just know that it's all relative to you and your personal experience. And that as we age, the stress tends to rise simply because our circumstances get more complicated, right? We have children or we have more financial obligations, we have bigger bills, we're getting closer to retirement and thinking like getting worried that you know, we're not going to have enough money saved. You know, people in our family, you know, pass away they die. Our pets die. Like all these things happen more and more as we get older. And we take on more things and we are maybe wiser but busier right? And all that adds up. So I feel you right? If you're listening to this and you're like, Man, I'm just so overwhelmed. You know I've got I've got my business, my work my kids working 14 hour days. that might be where you're at. And it is where you're at right now. And that's okay. The question is, how much is that contributing to other things, we're just a little tweak here there could unlock a more positive road to better health. And that's what we're going to talk about. So we're going to discuss the interconnected physiology, right how your body responds, the hormones and such, and the psychology. So the mental side of stress, including how it impacts your brain, your immune system, your hormones, your sleep, your diet, your exercise performance, and more. Right, without hopefully stressing you. Alright, the goal of today's episode is to give you actionable advice toward the end, based on all that information gets you nice and educated, to better navigate stressful periods, and transformational and transitional periods. Because oftentimes, the stress comes from change, it comes from things that aren't expected. And it can come tomorrow, you could get in an accident, there can be a medical condition, whatever we know these things happen, and I'm not trying to stress you out mentioning them. But knowing that they happen, how do we build the resilience for that, okay, so let's define the difference between acute and chronic stress. Acute, acute is the here and now it's short lived, and oftentimes can be a positive, adaptive or helpful form of stress. My favorite one of those is the acute stress of exercise of training. When you lift heavy weights for an hour in the gym, you are stressing the heck out of your body, but in an acute way. And we see this physiologically, we see an increase in blood pressure. For example, if you took my blood pressure, right in the middle of a weight training session, it's gonna look like I have terrible health. It's gonna be through the roof, but that's okay. That's actually part of the process. And as soon as you're done with your, your workout session, everything starts to get back to normal, and the acute stress goes away. And we know that the acute stress like that can actually build resilience against chronic stress. So what is chronic stress? Chronic stress is that prolonged, frequent, difficult to control stress, and that's the important phrase here, difficult to control, stress things from things like your work, financial stress issues in your relationship, juggling all the demands of home life, including children, right, the list goes on and on. And they're difficult to control. Because, you know, like the Stoics, say, there are things in your life you can and can't control. And the chronic stress often comes from the things put upon us. Okay, not always right. There are definitely choices we make to be in the environments and situations we're in and around the people we are. But I'm not asking you today for one podcast episode, to just eliminate all those things. We're going to acknowledge them and realize that they exist, and many of them are right at this moment, out of our control. Okay. All right. Now, there are a few things. Key things three, in fact, that I'm gonna mention, that makes some types of stress, even more detrimental. Okay. The first is novelty. If something happens that we have no previous experience with, and we don't know how to handle that creates more stress than a situation we've seen before. Right? There are situations that happen to me that I've experienced before, maybe financial situations, for example, that I would be able to handle, because I've done through, I've done it before. Whereas somebody else, it's their first time, maybe they're 25, and all of a sudden, they get hit with some big bill or something. And it's like, oh, what do I do what I like, I'm just, I don't know what to do. Right? That's going to create a lot more stress for them than the one for me. So again, it's relative to your experience. Number two is unpredictability. And that's when things are unexpected or inconsistent. So there's some sort of some overlap with novelty here, right? But these are stressors that maybe you know, they're going to happen, you just don't know when, like, they're going to come up, and they're just random. And then the third dimension is lack of control, or lack of agency. And this is all those I mentioned this already, the external stressors that we feel powerless to influence are powerless to change. We just, we don't have control there they happen. And now we have a situation that we that we want to do something about or make a choice in the context of what we can't change the stressor. So chronic stress becomes problematic to your physiology. When it's constant, unrelenting, feels impossible to manage or to relieve. Right. And then it's ramped up and exacerbated by inconsistency, unexpectedness, and novelty. So you take all that together, and I'm sure you can identify some things in your life that fit the bill. So now the question is, what does this do to you and I know a lot of this is going to be quote unquote, negative might stress you out, just hearing what stress does do. But awareness is the first step. Right awareness of these things, I hope reduces stress in a way, because then you'll know where you can focus your energy and mitigate these issues. So the first is sleep, stress and sleep are intricately tied. Think we know that right? Cortisol, which we often call the stress hormone, and there are other stress hormones can impair your your ability to sleep. I mean, this is just thinking about your stressful things in your life can cause you to have insomnia, or it can cause you to disrupt your sleep or wake you up in the middle of the night thinking about it, raise your hand, if you'd have this happened. This hasn't happened many times, okay, happens to me a lot. When things are exceptionally stressful, I'm going to wake up in the middle of the night. And all I can do is find a piece of paper to write it all down so I can get back to sleep. So the sleep quality and your recovery and recharging from your sleep as affected by stress. And now you feel wired. But exhausted, right, you get these restless nights night after night. If you're wearing something like an aura ring, it's going to show you very little deep sleep. And yet you might be in bed for eight hours, but just not getting the sleep. And this is I put this in the top. Because I've said before how like just being sleep deprived alone can massively reduce your metabolism can increase your fat storage in the abdomen can increase your hunger, all those things. But oftentimes stress is the cause of the poor sleep. And any amount of sleep hygiene or sleep hacks aren't going to fix the sleep until you fix the stress. So if we can recognize that in ourselves, that sleep may not be the root cause but stress might be that can be helpful. All right. Second is the the effect that stress has on your nutrition on your dietary choices. Because chronic stress like lack of sleep drives cravings for high energy foods, high sugar, high fat comfort foods as well because there's an emotional component to it. And it also depletes nutrients in your body like it can actually reduce your absorption of nutrients to an extent like where your gut kind of malfunctions and your body becomes less efficient with handling, you know, processing B vitamins, zinc, magnesium, those kinds of things. So whatever your intake you have from your nutrients, the effective effectiveness of them goes down. And then between both the cravings and the nutrient depletion, now your quality dietary quality suffers. And that can lead to other impacts on many other things. Okay, then we have got health, all right. Chronic stress can inhibit stomach acid production. And that is probably tied to the absorption issue I just talked about. All right, B 12, iron, even protein, okay, protein absorption, it disrupts the microbiome, right? healthy gut microbiome, and we're just discovering now how important that is to your health overall, as well, it could affect your digestion to stress affects your training and gym performance. Right? This is huge. So when we talk about recovery, we talk about sleep, stress food, well, if the stress is high, it's hard to have get those extra reps in the gym, it's hard to feel energized, you may not be pre processing carbs and protein as efficiently, you're nutrient depleted, the list goes on, right? And then you have this elevated cortisol. Which guess what, ladies and gentlemen, elevated cortisol is catabolic over the long term, meaning it breaks down tissue, it probably has to do with your body trying to marshal resources to get close to homeostasis, because you're in this high stress state. And so it impairs muscle building or it causes muscle tissue breakdown. All right. The last effect of stress I want to talk about is your body composition overall. Okay? The increase in cortisol also induces further insulin resistance. And this contributes toward, you know, fat gain. Of course, as much as we talk about having high enough carbs and lifting helping all of this, the stress is counteracting that, right? Cortisol signals the body to store more fat, especially the harmful visceral fat. So if these aren't all reasons to improve your stress, I don't know what is. So now let's talk about the physiology of the stress response just to get a little bit sciency but not go as deep as like Sam did on his his multi part series. So this is the the fight or flight that you've heard about many times the sympathetic versus parasympathetic. So the sympathetic response right. When the brain perceives a threat, it signals the hypothalamus to activate the adrenal glands. The adrenal glands are what pump out stress hormones, cortisol, and adrenaline. By the way, cool, little side story. Adrenaline and epinephrine are the same thing. And they both mean above the kidney, add renal, EPA nephron, Latin Greek, if you found that interesting, share this podcast, okay.

Philip Pape 19:37

So the adrenal pumps out those hormones cortisol and adrenaline. Cortisol then affects everything, your whole body's physiology, immune health, metabolism, etc. Right? And here's another interesting thing, your brain structure changes with chronic stress. The amygdala enlarges and actually increases the fear and stress response the amygdala. Like the primal part of your brain, that response is a response to the fight or flight. So you're actually now you're effectively training your amygdala to be bigger and stronger, which is not what you want. And then the opposite happens with the hippocampus. The hippocampus is responsible for memories, and regulating your mood, guess what happens to it, it can atrophy. So Holy crap, like, I just learned this going to this research, I hadn't explored this specific phenomenon. But you're effectively strength training parts of your brain with your stress in the wrong direction, when you have too much stress, a bigger amygdala, a smaller hippocampus? I don't know. I think that's pretty cool. I'm fascinated by this stuff. I nerd out on it. But it's also scary in a way, isn't it? It creates this vicious cycle of greater reactivity, like you react more easily. And then you perpetuate the chemical response that's going on. So it's like it's this vicious cycle. And you probably know what I'm talking about. Soon as you get wired and stressful, and you're chronically stressed it, it just goes on and on and on. Even if you have a day or two of like, being able to relax and do stuff yourself. It's like, it's a temporary Band Aid, and everything's just ramps right back up. So what do we do about it? All right, I'm gonna throw a lot of you today, I realize that, but I like to be complete, and give you a lot of options. And so before I even go through my whole list here, my main action for you today, and I'm going to reiterate this later in the podcast, my main action that I asked you to do is pick one thing, pick one thing that's easy, and simple. Okay? If I'm telling you that having more sex will reduce your stress, and you don't have a sexual partner, that's probably not the one you're gonna go after. And maybe you're laughing right now. And that's the point I wanted to give you a little chuckle. But if there's something on this list, that is far from what you can do right now, don't worry about it. Don't even think about it. Pick one thing, that's easy, that you can give yourself a reminder to do tomorrow. Okay, this is the new year. I don't think I mentioned that this is the first full episode of the new year. So Happy New Year. And I'm thinking that we're all stressful this time of year. We're past the kind of high emotional high of the holidays. And now we're looking at the long path of our year, pick something that's easy to do. Hey, this is Philip. And I hope you're enjoying this episode of Wits & Weights, I started Wits, & Weights to help people who want to build muscle lose fat and actually look like they lift. I've noticed that when people improve their strength and physique, they not only look and feel better, they transform other areas of their life, their health, their mental resilience and their confidence in everything they do. And since you're listening to this podcast, I assume you want the same things the same success, whether you recently started lifting, or you've been at this for a while and want to optimize and reach a new level of success. Either way, my one on one coaching focused on engineering your physique and body composition is for you. If you want expert guidance and want to get results faster, easier, and with fewer frustrations along the way to actually look like you Lyft go to wits & weights.com, and click on coaching, or use the link in my show notes to apply today. I'll ask you a few short questions to decide if we're a good fit. And if we are, we'll get you started this week. Now back to the show. Okay, so what are the options? First, we have lifestyle changes, and techniques. So these are all you can call them stress hacks. But these are all the very important things that I would recommend to a client, and usually would be more personalized to their life. But I want you to think about your life in which one of these makes sense. So first, we have anything that is creative or expressive. Okay, the this is like a form of self therapy. If you like art, if you'd like to paint or draw, or do Legos, or some sort of craft, if you'd like to play music, like I play saxophone, I don't do it as much as I would like. So that could be on my list. And my kids both play clarinet and flute, so I can play with them. And they play piano as well. Right? singing music, listening to me, not really the listening and this is more about expressing yourself. Okay, writing, creative writing. You like to write stories, or poems. This is not to be confused with like work writing, writing emails and social posts that you just don't like to do this is a more enjoyable form of writing. Maybe you want to use a quill maybe you want to do calligraphy, right? Maybe you want to write thank you notes to people. Dancing is another one. And dancing can be everything from just jumping around with your your wife or husband at home to meet not jumping around. But I mean dancing to music or dancing with your kids or just dancing on your own right, or going out and dancing somewhere. I'm sure you can come up with other ideas but different ways to express yourself. And by the way, after I give you this list, I'm going to share specific examples from the community and for my clients that might spark some inspiration. The next one is social connection not just once in a blue moon, but regular so also a connection. And this does include sex and intimacy with your spouse or partner, okay? In a real meaningful way, right? Not, we're not talking about random sex and one night stands, we're talking about meaningful connections here.

Philip Pape 25:14

But also connections with your friends, like if you have one or two or three close friends that you can meet with on a regular basis, and you find that a refreshing thing to do, whether it's go out for a drink, hang out their house, go do an activity together. This could also be groups and communities you connect with online, or through texting, or through WhatsApp or Telegram, there's so many ways, right? Find a group, there are many groups support groups out there if you need them. Alright, the third thing, spending time in nature, or outdoors, this can be going for a walk in the woods, killing two birds with one stone getting your gear steps in, so to speak, but doing it because it's outside, you get your Vitamin D sunshine, the birds chirping, there's something visceral about our connection with as humans with nature. And some of you in the community have posted how you live, you know, at the ocean, your rivers, near the woods, even in the city, there's so many beautiful places, and interesting places you can spend time in nature or outdoors. The next one is an interesting one, a lot of people resonate with this, especially in my community planning and organizing. So planning your day, your meals, your schedule, your vacation coming up your week, you know, it requires a little bit of intense activity and concentration, maybe gets you into a flow state. But for that half hour of work, so to speak, that probably feels pretty productive, and feels good to you not really stressful, so to speak, the reward is then your whole, you know, future for that thing is planned out. And now you don't have to make decisions in the future. And that takes away fatigue. And stress organizing is the same way some people really want to organize, whether it's their house, you know, cleaning, doing the chores, mowing the lawn, organizing your thoughts on a whiteboard, organizing things in a post it note, whatever. I mean, organizing means a lot of things. The next thing is all the stuff related to what we talked about on the show. So training, optimizing your nutrition, optimizing your sleep, so I think sleep and stress can kind of play off each other. So if if you feel that your sleep can easily be improved, not easily, but that improving your sleep can reduce your stress. And that's the main thing causing the stress. Because you just feel like you lack energy and everything else just builds up. And all you need is an extra hour of sleep, or a little bit better quality sleep, of course, I'm going to encourage you to try to do that, find a way to do that, and then see if it doesn't also reduce your stress. So it can go both ways. And then of course training and nutrition. I guess I'll just be explicit about that. If you're doing too much exercise, that can be stressful. But also if you're sedentary and you're not training at all, adding in resistance training in particular, but also walking are absolutely going to contribute positively to reducing stress, the resistance training does in many ways. One way is the acute stressor of the activity itself, which builds this physiological and as you realize brain based physical resilience to stress that carries you into the rest of your day and the rest of the week. But walking and endorphins from even other forms of cardio have been shown to reduce stress. Nutrition is just eating enough eating enough food. Like if you're dieting, that's going to increase stress just by default, by definition. So one way to increase to reduce stress, if you're in a calorie reduction reduced state is to not be in that state is to eat at least at maintenance or above. We went through this at the end of the year in our body recomp challenge where a lot of people, they said, we said together, we're not going to diet, we're not going to try to be in a surplus or be in a deficit, we're just going to stay where we are. But we're going to build good habits and eat enough food through the holidays and enjoy ourselves. And so many people did that instead. Wow. That was revelatory. That was that was life changing in a way because I realized I can eat more without gaining weight. And the eating more. reduce my stress helped me sleep better give me more energy helped me perform better in the gym. You see how this is all connected. It's all connected. So optimizing your nutrition is eating enough. It's also eating enough of the right macronutrients and micronutrients to support your health. So that's, you know, sufficient protein and carbs, carbs, especially a lot of you listening. If you're low carb or keto and you have a lot of stress, bumping up your carbs. It can help possibly I've seen it time and again happen. I talked about this on the more carbs more muscle episode because of the hormonal response to additional carbs. So they're all worth the all all things that need to be looked at. Okay, so that to a pretty good list of the big ones of how to reduce stress. Actually, I have more I have more, I'm categorizing these in different ways. So I'm going to talk about supplements. And I'm going to talk about more advanced stress management skills specifically, I'll get to that in a second. One thing mentioned is part of exercise could be really any movement that relaxes you. So that could include of course, a yoga, it could include stretching, like all of that in there. Okay. Now from our Wits, & Weights community and from our clients. Many of my clients contributed some ideas, as well as those in the Facebook community, which is totally free, you can join in the link in the show notes as always. And I'm going to shout them out by name, I think they wouldn't mind because they posted right in the community. I'll just give their first name. Just see this. Her idea she had two that I wanted to share photography. That's a form of art of creative expression. She also likes walks on the beach. Again, getting out in nature and the beach in particular, there's supposedly science not supposedly, but there's science that shows like the ionized water coming off of the ocean coming off of waterfalls has some positive interaction with our physiology. I don't know the details. I'm sorry, but look it up. It's pretty cool stuff that we are really attracted to walking near bodies of water being your body's water for our stress. Okay, Eric said he likes to relax, okay, I love that just saying relax, because relax, I didn't even mention it could just be veg and out. Just chillin, read a book, right? Watching TV, playing a video game. I can play a violent video game, and it will relax me, which sounds crazy, right? But it's something that I really look forward to. I enjoy it. I'm good at it. It doesn't take a lot of thought. And as a result, I get relaxed regardless of whether the content seems quote unquote, stressful because I know it's fake. And that's just me. Okay. Anyway, relax. And then listen to podcasts. And listen to podcast is great way to reduce stress if it if it helps you relax, for example, or if it's entertaining, but also even if it's helping you with your personal growth. And it solves some sort of problem for you as you're listening. And maybe it maybe inspires you to write down an action that you're going to take and then that gives you confidence and certainty as to your next step. Leanne says reprioritizing tasks. I love this one, this is related to the organization and planning. But this is saying let me look at all the things on my to do list and reprioritize them, which could include eliminating them. But it also is putting the most important and urgent ones at the top right, maybe getting some out of the way right now getting them done. Maybe delegating them. So that could definitely reduce stress. Shannon said I love this quote, lift heavy, heavier and heaviest I had to include in there. I just love the quote the idea of lifting heavy reduces stress, I can attest to that. And pretty much everybody I know who lives heavy states that that's the case, there's absolutely no negatives that I can think of to lifting heavy with good form. You know, so there you go. Chrissy says yoga and cleaning. So yoga, specifically, a lot of people love to do yoga, as a form of movement, and mindfulness. And then cleaning, this goes under the category of I guess organizing maybe being in control, right and being proud and happy about your space around you. Very important. Right? A lot of people get stressed just seeing a bunch of clutter lying around. Brianne said Transcendental Meditation. Now she mentioned a specific book in the group. I didn't write it down for the notes. So go into the Wits, & Weights Facebook community, and you'll see a post that I did about what's your favorite way to reduce stress. And she mentioned it in there. But again, if you can't find it reach out. We'll point it out to you. But that's a very specific skill called transcendental meditation. Josh said organize, prioritize, execute. So I like how we included all of those which go under the planning and organization. And it kind of combines with what Leanne said about reprioritizing tasks. So organize your tasks, prioritize them, and then execute them. And that's actually an important one too, like, just getting stuff done, can reduce stress. And one of my quick quotes was about procrastination. And for many of you, you may be stressed because you're procrastinating. And so if you can use one of those tools to reduce your to do list

Philip Pape 34:28

that can reduce stress. All right, Tony mentioned one that I really liked here, reminding himself of the big picture. Yeah. How often do we get in the weeds? And we get stressed? Because we think there are a million things we have to do. And when you take a step back, you realize you know what, it's not that bad. Like, all these are nice, but there's this one thing that's really superseding all of it. Actually, it's what Carl Carl Berryman would call it Have your big lifts, the metaphorical big lifts in your life? So yeah. Carol said asked for help. Yes, you know, I didn't really have that up in the top while I had social connection. But asking for help specifically, from that group, to reduce your stress, so not just waiting to kind of get together in a, in a normal, relaxed situation. But when you're stressed right now, and you know, somebody can give you that help reach out and be specific and say, Hey, I'm gonna, I'm in a tough spot right now, could you help me with this thing and be specific and ask for help. And then she also said, venting to someone who will listen. So again, that's, that's related to social connection, if you have someone who you tend to help each other out, again, what Carl calls, give a spot, get a spot, right? They're probably one of the easiest people to talk to, and share with what's actually going on and vent. And they'll be accepting of that, right, and be able to take on some not even take the burden to you, it's a burden that you're releasing to the other person, it's probably a privilege that they can on, you know, release the burden from you. And they're not really taking on a burden. By doing that. In fact, they're, they probably feel more fulfilled, at least that's how I feel about it, when I'm helping someone who wants to vent and they're doing it in a genuine way and looking for support. And then the one I have that I just came up with, on my way to recording this podcast was, don't always listen to your podcasts on high speed. Like I said to x, I never listened to that fast. But sometimes I'll listen to them at 1.25 or 1.5, just to speed them up a bit. I think it's okay to do that. Sometimes, like if it's the information is kind of superficial enough that you don't have to hear every word and you're just trying to get the general content in. And maybe maybe I'm making an excuse and rationalizing, but if you do it all the time, I feel like it's going to hype you up to kind of wire you up and get you anxious. I've done that. And then I go to have a conversation. And I feel like it's slow. I'm like, Oh, that's not good. Like it's a time dilation, you know, kind of gravity will phenomenon happening there. So anything that wires you up, that can be slowed down is possibly a way to reduce stress. Okay, so that was a whole bunch of like, things that you can try. There are supplements as well that can aid with stress and cortisol, in particular, such as the adaptogens, or nootropics. Now, the big one that you hear about a lot is ashwagandha. And I will swear by this for a lot of people. But again, I'm not as a nutrition coach, I can't prescribe anything, these are herbal supplements, I'm not recommending them specifically to anyone, I'm just putting them out there. If you want to experiment with yourself ashwagandha, rhodiola, Rosea, Panax. Ginseng, there's others. And for a lot of people, this fills a gap or addresses a deficiency that is related to stress, and then it reduces their stress, I'm not going to go into the mechanism behind them. Because I don't want to spend too much time talking about supplements when there are a lot of natural lifestyle changes that can be made first. But the other thing that comes to mind, we talked about nutrition and micronutrients. I think if you have a deficiency that can be easily checked, usually with bloodwork, like magnesium. Or if you're vegan, and you want to take B complex vitamins, you know, B 12. That alone could could be also causing stress if you don't have enough of a certain mineral, or vitamin. And then we have what I'm going to call stress management skills. And I left these for the end as a separate section because I think they're more advanced. And sometimes tell me if I'm not wrong in your head here. Because this is a one way conversation. Sometimes I get I don't know, if you do I get stressed out thinking about stress management, like thinking about, okay, now I need to do mindfulness, I need to do meditation and breath work. And all the things I'm gonna mention here, that's actually three of the six things I'm gonna mention. But I don't want you to feel stressed that you have to go do some advanced skill, some guided thing, something you have to like learn over days or weeks. And even though these are helpful, and a lot of people swear by them, I'd rather you take the simple, easy step first, and then put this on, you're like, Okay, that's my, that's my next level list. And these are mindfulness. And that means a lot of things. For a lot of people, that simply means being in the moment and being present. Right. Alan Friedman and our group did a mindfulness session recently. It was also alternate nostril breathing, which is a form of breathwork. That's available in the community. And I think I put out an episode on that recently, over the holidays. So check that out if you want to be guided through it in an easy way. But there are also apps like the aura ring has an app. There's breathe and breath and so many apps that have mindfulness meditation and breathwork type activities and they just have a calming voice that walks you through for one minute, five minutes, 10 minutes, some exercise to help you get in the moment and reduce your stress So I'm not against any of those, I just want you to be aware, there are a lot of other things you can do as well. So we have mindfulness, we have meditation, we have breath work, and breath work could be as simple as belly breathing, or the four second, or the box breathing technique, or the alternate nostril breathing. We also have cognitive reappraisal, which is a fancy way of saying, re framing. So this one I actually like a lot. But it's not like something you just do necessarily so much as you it's a principle, and a way of thinking, when you say or write something about yourself, of reframing the situation from a negative to a positive. And I use this with clients all the time, like this is almost every week with every client, there's something that they might say, that can be reframed to put in a positive light. And that can reduce stress, because now it takes you from thinking, your failure, stress to, oh, I just learned something. And now I can make a choice to do something different control, less stress. A few other things are guided imagery. I mean, I could add a whole bunch of things to this list. But the last one I want to add, and this is something you can do right now, if you have someone in the vicinity is hug someone. Can you hug someone right now? And you know, what if you can't hug someone in the vicinity, or it would be weird, because you're in the grocery store, and then strangers, hug yourself, like, hug yourself and just love yourself right now. I'm serious, hug someone or hug yourself. That's what I'm talking about with connection, and how that can reduce stress. And some of us are isolated. We're working from home. We are rarely out and about seeing people. Hopefully we're doing it more now with the world a little bit more opened up again. But some of us are oftentimes in a very isolated environment for long stretches. And if you can connect with someone in any way whatsoever, do it. I hope that this episode has connected with you in some way as well. I help my calm soothing voice has helped. Just kidding. And yeah, I think I think that covers stress, I could just go on and on and on. But this episode, I want to keep it less than an hour. So what I'm going to say here is that stress itself can be a big, overwhelming, stressful topic. So again, if there's one takeaway from this episode is this identify one lifestyle change, or stress management technique that we just mentioned in the show? That sounds fun and easy for you to implement. And then reserve time in your schedule this week. For that activity. You can use the timestamps in the show notes to go back to the last section where I explained all of those right, go back to the timestamps don't stress, it's easy to go find it, use the timestamp and just pick one. Alright, last thing. Just as a reminder, I created a free stress solution guide to go along with this episode. It's basically very detailed outline that mirrors the content of the show pretty exactly. I mean, I basically took my notes and I turned it into a guide for you. And you can download that at wits & weights.com/free, or click the link in my show notes. Again, that's wits & weights.com/free or click the link under the episode resources in the show notes. Okay, in our next episode 135 The truth about testosterone for women's health with Karen Martell, one of our most popular guests, Karen Martell of the hormone solution podcast is back and she is uncovering the truth about testosterone for women. You'll learn the role of testosterone and women's health and vitality who might benefit from testosterone therapy. Common questions related to the benefits, safety and dosage of TRT and where all this is headed into the future. As always, stay strong. Don't stress and I'll talk to you next time here on the Wits & Weights podcast. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights, please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong

Philip Pape 12/22/23 Philip Pape 12/22/23

Ep 133: Making Fitness Fun Again Through Adventure with Kelly Howard

How can the spirit of adventure revitalize your fitness journey? What concepts help you overcome common hurdles to staying consistent with your fitness goals? Philip talks with Kelly Howard, a Fitness Consistency Expert with a touch of Adventure and the author of FIT: Active & Ageless for Life. Learn how the spirit of adventure can revitalize your fitness journey. You will learn how to overcome common hurdles to staying consistent with your fitness goals. The show explores the concepts of a ‘Fitness North Star,’ ‘Layered Accountability,’ and external vs. internal motivation. You can expect to expand your comfort zone, reignite your passion for fitness, and embrace a sense of fun and adventure.

How can the spirit of adventure revitalize your fitness journey? What concepts help you overcome common hurdles to staying consistent with your fitness goals?

In this episode, Philip (@witsandweights) talks with Kelly Howard, a Fitness Consistency Expert with a touch of Adventure and the author of FIT: Active & Ageless for Life. Learn how the spirit of adventure can revitalize your fitness journey. You will learn how to overcome common hurdles to staying consistent with your fitness goals. The show explores the concepts of a ‘Fitness North Star,’ ‘Layered Accountability,’ and external vs. internal motivation. You can expect to expand your comfort zone, reignite your passion for fitness, and embrace a sense of fun and adventure.

Kelly has helped thousands of women prioritize their fitness for over 25 years to feel great and have more fun in this second half of life. She invites women to adventure out of their comfort zones by trying new experiences they may have only imagined. Kelly’s Fit is Freedom podcast, coaching, online courses, and retreats change lives daily. She currently calls Houston, Texas, home but can often be found kayaking rivers and traveling trails worldwide.

Episode Summary:

Embarking on a fitness journey can often feel like a daunting task filled with strict routines and challenging workouts. However, when approached with the right mindset and strategies, it can transform into an adventure filled with joy, motivation, and sustainable habits. This podcast episode with fitness expert Kelly Howard offers an insightful exploration into how we can mix adventure with exercise to cultivate a vibrant and steadfast health routine.

Kelly emphasizes the concept of finding your 'Fitness North Star,' a compelling vision that propels you forward and transforms mundane daily habits into a passionate pursuit of well-being. This idea serves as a beacon, guiding you through the highs and lows of your fitness journey, and ensuring that every step taken is one filled with purpose and enjoyment. By identifying what truly motivates you, whether it's the desire to be an active grandparent or the thrill of completing a challenging hike, you can align your fitness goals with deeper personal values, leading to a more fulfilling and enduring lifestyle.

A crucial aspect of sustaining a fitness journey is developing a robust accountability system. Kelly introduces a pyramid-like structure where each layer supports the next, creating an unshakeable foundation for personal growth. The base of this pyramid is personal motivation, followed by expert coaching, and finally, the collective strength of a community. This multi-layered approach addresses the shortcomings of relying solely on friends or partners for accountability and provides a more effective system that combines intrinsic drive with external support.

Kelly and the host discuss the importance of incremental progress rather than grand gestures. This perspective shifts the focus from achieving sporadic, large-scale goals to embracing small, routine steps that collectively lead to significant improvements. They explore how adventure, in its many forms, can be integrated into fitness routines to foster a sense of anticipation and engagement. From trying new activities to setting ambitious events like a 'misogi,' the inclusion of adventure in your fitness regimen can rekindle passion and commitment to your health goals.

Moreover, the conversation sheds light on the significance of rest days, the concept of 'body in motion stays in motion,' and the critical mindset of restarting versus giving up. Emphasizing the foundation built from previous efforts, Kelly likens restarts to muscle memory, suggesting that with an established base, restarts should be more accessible, enabling one to maintain momentum and continue progressing.

One of the most captivating segments of the episode focuses on the importance of fun and play in our fitness journeys. The dialogue reveals how incorporating playfulness can alleviate stress, broaden our perspective, and lead to better life choices. By being intentional with leisure time and creating a list of enjoyable activities, listeners are encouraged to infuse their workouts and daily lives with elements of fun, enhancing their overall well-being.

In conclusion, the episode leaves listeners with an invitation to visit fitisfreedom.com, where they can access further resources and connect with Kelly Howard for guidance on their fitness journey. The conversation underscores the message that fitness is not merely about the workouts but about embracing the journey, the challenges, and the joy of living an energetic and purpose-driven life. By implementing the insights shared in this episode, anyone can set forth on a more adventurous and fulfilling path toward fitness and health.

Today, you’ll learn all about:

2:07 What adventure means

3:51 Overcoming struggles with staying consistent

7:22 Create a schedule and aim for 80 percent

9:17 Finding and following your Fitness North Star

15:14 Building and using layered accountability

18:54 Where does community fit into the layer

23:22 Expanding comfort zones with new fitness activities

25:46 Making fitness fun and adventurous

27:55 Setting exciting fitness goals for the future

29:59 How adventure shapes fitness goals

32:00 Expanding comfort zones with new fitness activities

35:09 Where the fun and positivity fit in

39:35 One question Kelly wished Philip had asked

40:33 Where to find Kelly

40:58 Outro

Episode resources:

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Transcript

Kelly Howard 00:00

For me, like I've always said that my Northstar a couple of them. One of them is that I just want to feel as good as I possibly can as for as long as I possibly can. So I can do all the things that I love to do. And so it's just always looking for those things. It gets you excited.

Philip Pape 00:17

Kelly Howard 01:58

Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Philip Pape 02:01

I'm excited as well, I think we had a great conversation on your show. And I'm sure we will have another one today. I love your recurring theme of adventure in your work, fun and adventure. Let's just start right there. What does adventure mean to you? How do you weave that into the fabric of your fitness philosophy?

Kelly Howard 02:18

Sure. So I have noticed that there's so few things that women in general, and guys to don't really have to look forward to when it comes to fitness. It's like the next number on the scale. And it's so boring. Like, no one gets excited about the number on the scale when it comes down, I guess they do and when it goes up, they're tragic. And so it's no fun. So I thought, how can we change this narrative? And I thought, you know, what gets me going in life is adventures and its interest can be anything, okay? Adventures don't have to be trekking the jungle, they can be taking the taking the kids to, you know, a new park, they can be adventurous can be anything. But it's something that gets you excited, something that piques your interest, something that you have to look forward to. And it just makes to me a huge difference. Yeah,

Philip Pape 03:15

that makes a lot of sense. I mean, it really does. Because even when you do go after those boring goals, and they, they kind of go back and forth. It's like, what's next? You know, like, what? What do we push, and they're so fleeting, right? And we've heard the concept of enjoying the process or loving the process. But even the process itself can get a little mundane depending on what you're going after. So I know you're like a, you're a big fan of consistency and talking about how you can be more consistent. And that's one of the biggest struggles people say is I can't be consistent, and then it sounds like adventure can be a good way to get you on that path. What are the predominant reasons that people have a challenge with consistency? And then how does adventure come into that? Sure.

Kelly Howard 03:58

So consistency is one of those things that it's it's kind of like a unicorn. And also like something that is, is so mundane, that is part of us, but we don't really realize it because a lot of times people think that when they have to be quote unquote, consistent, it has to be big stuff. Right? Like, you know, the big workouts, the big goals, you know, all the big things. And so often what's very simple is that if we make it small, and that 1% A day kind of thing, it gets so much simpler and easier. So consistency. One thing people will say to me is, well, I'm not motivated, right? Consistency comes from motivation. Consistency actually doesn't come from motivation and motivation. We can talk about that if we want but consistency really comes from those little bitty routines. I'm not a big fan. You know, habits are a nice thing, but I'm not a big fan of the word habit. Because habit is it's a scary word, right? It's like oh, Oh gosh, I gotta change my habits. But if we just make these small little routines that we add in on a daily basis, and we find all the things that we need to do that will help it. Because there's so many pieces to it, right? Like you mentioned layered accountability, there's accountability, there's motivation. There's, you know, that Northstar of adventure. Those are all routines that allow us to become more consistent. So consistency itself, in the end, is nothing more than taking the right step every day, as small as it needs to be. Yeah,

Philip Pape 05:33

I love that approach. Right. Just recently, I was listening to someone talk about how habits, the H word that we don't like, we often make them big and complex, right? Like, okay, I want to get 10,000 steps a day. And when you're getting three, we'll go from three to 10. And think of that as a single step can be a big problem for people, because what does it take to get to 10? You don't just set a number and get the number, right. You have to now? Yeah, I need to incorporate a walk here. I need to change something here. I need to do this. And those are all maybe the little things that you're talking about that are individually achievable, right?

Kelly Howard 06:09

Yeah, it's such a good way to put it because we do we pick these arbitrary numbers that I don't know, we just make up like 10,000. I looked that up one day, I thought, why can't acid and although all I could find is that it was something that came from an arbitrary number that someone else made up and said, this is you know, the number of steps you should do every day. I couldn't find anything on there that said, this is you know, this is the number that's going to make us healthy. So a lot of these things are just like these arbitrary numbers we come up with, and then we think we have to do them. When in fact, if we just like, follow it, our body says, some days we push harder, so much easier. Yeah. The

Philip Pape 06:56

10,000 steps. It's funny, just like less than a month ago, I think I found a source for that. It was like a Japanese pedometer company in the 70s or 80s. And they actually called it like the 10,000, the 10,000 step meter or something. Anyway. Is that cool? Yeah. totally arbitrary. It might have been might have been an atom Bernstein's book you mentioned I'm not sure. But anyway, back to the consistency thing. One other related theme to that is, I think I saw an infographic recently and put it nicely where there were seven days, right, each day was a circle, and some days are fuller than others on that circle, right? And the idea that progress can be measured in different ways. That doesn't mean doing everything every day, or being successful with everything every day. What are your thoughts on that as well, they probably come in many forms. That's

Kelly Howard 07:45

the Okay, that's a big one for me. Like, I think that like one of the things that I suggest to people and I don't have a lot of shoulds. But this is pretty much a should, you should create a schedule every week. Because we both know this, when you have a schedule. It's real. Right? When you people will come to me, and they'll be like, Oh, I think I'm going to do three workouts this week and maybe a couple of hikes. I'm like, great. And when are you going to do that? Well, I don't know yet. So let's not do that. Let's

Philip Pape 08:14

let's figure it out by one day or exactly.

Kelly Howard 08:17

And so when you look at that, and you create that schedule, the next piece of it is that I like to go, can you hit 80% of it. 80% of it sounds kind of like I don't know, like you're not trying hard enough. But life happens. And if you can hit 80% of that whole week, all the circles 80% of them, then you're doing great, you can hit 90% You're like a rockstar. If you're hitting 100% You're probably not trying hard enough.

Philip Pape 08:49

Or your circles not big enough. I love the 80% too, because it I don't know if it has to do with like the golden ratio. There's something that humans are attracted to it that 8020 We see it in the Pareto Principle, right 20% of the effort gives you a percent the results. But I've heard that a lot. And it's probably comes down to the fact that most people are trying for 100% and falling falling away. We were short, and then it's this chasm of all or nothing. But I want to talk about your fitness Northstar for for a second, because I don't know what it is. First of all, you could tell us what it is. And it sounds well. Northstar to me sounds like having having a competence having a deeper purpose or meaning, you know, behind something that's driving you. What is it and how can someone find this Northstar?

Kelly Howard 09:36

Ya know, it's it's a little bit about what we talked about in the beginning. And one of one of the North Stars could be an adventure. But really what a North Star is, is it's finding that thing that gives you more purpose than just the way you look. Right like or just the way the cow just with the capricious scale. says, right? You never know like, what's gonna happen in the bathroom on the scale. So what a Northstar is is I thought, you know, what is the thing that really gets us going? And I'll give you a if you don't mind, I'm gonna tell you a quick story. This is somebody who came to me about a month ago. And she said to me, she said, I said, Why are you here? Why don't we want to work together? She said, I need to lose 20 pounds. Great. Why? She said, Well, my daughter's getting married. Okay, so why do you need to lose 20 pounds for that? Well, I gotta get into the dress. Okay, why? And you just keep asking that way. We know this one, right? We know that if you ask the why enough, you're gonna get to that point. And we got to that point, because all of a sudden, she said, Well, I don't look like I used to. And I don't feel like I used to. And I said, why? And so that's when, you know, her eyes got a little shiny. And she said, she said, Well, I just haven't felt good in years. I said, Okay, so what's it really about? She said, what it's really about is, I'm afraid of the next 50 years, or 40 years, or what I have. And I don't know what to do. I was like, Well, that's easy, right? Really, when you get to that point, you're really finding a Northstar. Because for her, what it ended up being was, she wanted to be there. For those grandkids, she always wanted to be like, you know, deep down inside, she wanted to be that cool grandmother, and the one that took them kayaking, and took them on trips and things like that, like those were all of that wants, but she was unwilling to admit it. Because she thought that, that life had passed her by too quick. And so when we pulled out the North Star that, you know, these are all the things that are gonna make your life shine. It changed everything. Like, yeah, it was she went, she's she's gonna looking great, right? She's already looking great. She because she hadn't, you know, you know, that plateau. She hadn't hit that plateau yet. So she's losing weight, and she's gaining muscle and she's having a good time. But at the same time, the end is going to be so much different for Yeah, and for me, like I've always said that, my Northstar, a couple of them. One of them is that I just want to feel as good as I possibly can as for as long as I possibly can. So I can do all the things that I love to do. Yeah. And so it's just always looking for those things that gets you excited. Yeah.

Philip Pape 12:27

And you said something there that she's that after she was after she started to make progress. She said it's going to be different. In other words, the the satisfaction she gets from that is going to be more long lasting, because it tied to the thing she really wanted. Exactly, even though it also satisfies these other superficial things that we all think we want. Right? Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. And this why approach? So I mean, you know, I've heard that before, obviously use it with clients as well. Like why why why is it Is it as simple as that it may be right. Like I think sometimes we overcomplicate it, but people listening who just want to do this for themselves with a piece of paper right now? Did they just need to ask themselves why? And keep going down that path?

Kelly Howard 13:06

I think so. Okay. And there's one more piece to it, though is they have to be honest,

Philip Pape 13:11

honest with yourself. We lie to ourselves. I mean,

Kelly Howard 13:15

I'm good at asking questions that I'm really good at watching reactions with people, sometimes for people. When we get to a stage where we're where we're uncomfortable, we don't want to keep going. I just came back from a trip in Costa Rica had a group of women there, it was much more adventurous than I had anticipated. And one of the things I was talking to one of the women yesterday, we had a we had a little incident in a river, where we ended up getting our raft, stuck, gets rocking, it was sinking. And we had to get everybody off the raft, and bring in another raft. And she was unstable, not flexible, and didn't have the strength that she really needed. And she looked at me right in the face yesterday, and she went, I have my why. She said, I want to be able to crawl up on a boulder in the middle of a river and stand up and not be terrified. And there you go.

Philip Pape 14:16

It's so true. And I love that example. Because it's not it doesn't always it's not always easy. I'll say to find it. If you're just in a random moment, try to figure out right, like, it might come to you. Or you might even start to go toward one purpose, and then it can evolve, right, you can evolve Exactly. That think about moving the raft. It's funny, because years ago, not too many years ago, we had moved to our new house and my wife wanted a garden. And so I said, Well, we have all these tree trunks that were felled nearby. Why don't we just move them over? And I'm there and I'm like, Alright, here we go. deadlift that thing up and I'm like, I would not have been able to lift this a year earlier. Like that is so cool to be able to you know, your I could support my wife and I able to garden right? It's like little things like that make you appreciate life. So okay, that's, that's awesome. So now we know the Northstar is the deep purpose it can, it can be crafted through exercise through practice and exercise, or it can come to you with with these practices. There's also the accountability piece you mentioned earlier. And we understand how important this is to supporting someone, right? And even teaching people to hold themselves accountable through those daily practices you mentioned. But you talk about layered accountability. So can you explain what that is? So

Kelly Howard 15:31

with accountability, in the end, my end goal is for people to be 100% accountable to themselves. Like that's, that's it, right? If you can be 100% accountable to yourself, and you've just, you've just won, you've won the fitness lottery. But to get there, most of us have never had that kind of support. So I think of it as like a pyramid. So you start with the very, very bottom, and the very bottom of that layer of accountability is something simple. So first, accountability buddies are nice, but you need to know the ones not to use. There's the big bad three is what I consider. One of them is your best friend. Your best friend's job is to make you happy. It's not to keep you keep you on track. You know, when you're when you're in accountability. I have a very good friend, she does this to me every year. She's like, Would you be my accountability, buddy, and I'm like, Oh, gosh. And you know, the texts are flying. And then they start petering off. And then I'm like, how you doing? Yep, you meet. And you know, she's like radio silence because she can get away with it. Best friends know, life partners know, they know every thing, every button to push to get you on the on the couch with the remote control, watching Netflix and eating pizza. Like that's their job, because most of them usually don't want to do what you're asking them to do. And then apps, a lot of people depend on, you know, different phone apps to keep them in line. So I can work. But that can be like, start one that can be layer one issues in an app. Because you know, it works. So then you then you come up and you step in and you're like, what's next layer? Next layer for different people could be different things, one of them might be signing up for something that is a goal of 5k, an adventure trip, or wedding, whatever it is, right?

Philip Pape 17:28

Maybe a challenge, a challenge, right?

Kelly Howard 17:30

If you have that next step, then the next step up is, and you're doing all of these at once. That's why it's layered. It's not like what try one thing, try another thing, but just do it all. Some of it works, some of it won't, then maybe you need a coach, right? Someone needs to like, I've got a client right now she's like, I can't get to the gym, I might hire a trainer. Do not even want to hear from you again, until you hire a trainer. And so you know, a coach. And then in your North Star, you just, it's it's a pyramid. And it's using everything you have learning that motivation, like motivation always falls in there somewhere. It's a learned skill, something we're born with or not, learn your motivation, find the things, find your triggers, all of these things, just like you know, they pile on top of each other. And if you use them all, you actually end up creating a way of being who you are that then you don't need all of it, because you've got it.

Philip Pape 18:34

That is good. You don't need it all. Because you've got Ah, that's so good. Because what I what I was thinking of here is, is the support system raise what you're talking about, I think, right? And I haven't heard it put so elegantly. So I like that I'm going to be stealing this in the future. And I'll give credit where it's due. But because sometimes the way I put it is, is you know, you've got, you've got your community, you've got coaches, you've got yourself, right, like it's kind of what you're saying. And don't it's not like a pyramid of hierarchy of needs, where you have to wait for one to exist before the other. It's just kind of in parallel. You're starting to weave these in your life. Where Where does the community fit in as at the middle part where you said, it's all these different things? The event the challenges center? Yeah, I think

Kelly Howard 19:15

community is probably interspersed throughout, like one way you'd find with communities like right now, we just started an accountability group for the next two months. And we're doing I think there's five people in each group. And I'm kicking it off for you. I'm checking element in with everybody, but it's just starting to get traction. So now all of a sudden, you have these five people who didn't know each other a week ago, are starting to get to know each other. They're, you know, sharing things that matter. And it will keep them going. Right, that will definitely keep them going. And then there's community like your community or my community where you've got those friends that you need, but it is it's woven all in through. Yeah,

Philip Pape 19:57

I love it. So and if you don't have that to be Getting with it sounds like there's a big gap between now where you want to be with a self accountability because like you said, it starts there and then eventually you want to get to that. Ideally 100% accountable for yourself. Now, is that is that the intrinsic motivation we're talking about? Or what do you? What role does self accountability play? Yeah,

Kelly Howard 20:18

I think I think it is just like, it just is what you do. Right? It's like, it's for you, right? It's just what you do. It's who you are. It's what you do. In the story. You don't think about it. I mean, every so often, you might have one, like, this morning, I had one of those days. My timing was off. It was a, it was a wait day timings off. I'm, I'm thinking my first thought was, well, I'll just put this off till tomorrow. And then, you know, I'll do it. I'll do it Saturday, and I have less stuff going on. And then my brain my, the other part of my brain was like, Kelly, I call BS on that, because you will not do it tomorrow. And you know, so what's your options, and, you know, it's like, you've got the devil in the angel on your shoulders, and you negotiate. For me, I negotiate it, okay, I'll cut it shorter. But I'm going to do what I said I was gonna do, and ended up not even cutting it shorter. I just, my day just started a little later. But, but it is, it's that thing where you have to, you have to on this one, just be willing to have super awareness, super awareness of yourself. That that gets you where you need to be. For sure

Philip Pape 21:27

you hit it there at the end with self awareness. Almost anything you take emotion, emotional intelligence, you know, setting these goals, like you said, the deeper purpose, take some level of just intentionality and thinking about who you are what you're trying to get out of this. When you mentioned the giving yourself excuses with the devil on your shoulder. I like that it brought up two things to mind. One is where we, we know so much deep in our soul, we want to do it. So even though we're starting to make this excuse, we still find a way. And we find a way we want to find a way. And the other is it almost becomes the opposite of excuse making sometimes I know, at least for me, when I work out, I will make excuses to work out. Because I haven't I want to do it so badly. That it becomes the opposite problem, which is not a terrible thing to have. It's shows how much momentum you have built into it. Yeah, where some of the other person in the room is like, it's too cold. You know, the gyms too far. You know, it's like, other excuses. Yeah,

Kelly Howard 22:27

no, it's, uh, you're right, it is momentum. Yeah, because you know, a body in motion stays in motion, and you just have to figure out what's going to keep you moving.

22:37

Before my coaching session with Phillip, I was really struggling with staying consistent with my nutrition, Phillip really showed me the importance of being consistent day to day, he also helped me see that it's not a bad thing to take a rest day, he really helps me get in that more positive headspace of a rest day being something really good for me. I've been doing this for a month now. And I'm finally starting to see some progress and my numbers. And I'm really excited about that. And I just appreciate so much the help that Philip has given me. He's always willing to answer questions to offer resources that are totally free, and very, very helpful. So I just want to say how much I appreciate that. Thanks, Phil.

Philip Pape 23:22

So what happens when things get really tough then and life happens, life's going to happen? And it just pushes you past that brink of even the self accountability just not gonna carry through at that point? Yeah.

Kelly Howard 23:35

Perfect. The perfect question, because probably 99% of people that I work with, they've gotten to that point where they went, you know what? I've tried it all. It's not gonna work. I don't know why you think this is gonna work, right? And what that really is, is it's not that they've tried it all, and it's not gonna work. It's that they weren't really willing to restart when they stopped. And that's life, right? It's just restarting every time we have to, like, I mean, it's just the way it is. There are lots of times I came back from Costa Rica. It was an amazing trip. And I was like, Whoa, I am way behind. And what did I do? I just like dove in and started working good. And after three days, I went, Kelly, you gotta restart what matters? And it's not that I just went, Oh, well, I didn't start my workouts right away. So I might as well just give up, essentially, just start again, every time.

Philip Pape 24:38

That's good. That's good. I've seen this happen to me. And also I've seen clients who we work with them for a long time. You see what life brings in terms of cycles? Yeah, and if one bad thing after another can happen to people like within a span of days or weeks, and all of a sudden these things fall off for a decent amount of time, right and it may not be in your control but like you said What is your mindset? Is it okay, I'm done? And it's like starting over, or am I just restarting what I already have? So, yeah, that's a healthy way to think about it. You know, and

Kelly Howard 25:09

the thing is, is that if we're restarting, we have a foundation that we didn't have before. Every time like, people don't realize this, and, and then they'll say to me, oh, my gosh, you know, I was able to do XYZ. And I'm like, of course, you are, like, you have a foundation. You just might have missed some time. It's like

Philip Pape 25:29

muscle memory. I actually, that's a great analogy. It's like muscle memory when people lifted for years, and then they stop. Even if it's 10 years later, they started listening again, the strength comes back quickly. Right? Yeah, your brain just knows it's wired for it. Exactly. Good one. So it should be easier than is the point. All right. So the the whole thing about events, you talked about the middle part of the layered accountability. I had a gentleman on my show very cards recently talked about Miss Sogi. I don't know if you've heard the term. But it's having this big, maybe this scary, like annual event to look forward to? You know, like, for him it was this giant mountain climb. Right. And then you also mentioned the importance of having something to look forward to plans to look forward to so maybe dig into that one. How, what are some concrete examples of where you use that? Or people can do that?

Kelly Howard 26:15

Oh, yeah. So okay. I hope that people listening, your audience likes the idea of adventure, because I'm gonna just come back to this again and again. For myself, I will say that, every year, I go and meet some friends for about a 10 day, whitewater kayaking, I know that if I'm not able to carry that kayak, up and down for miles, if I'm not able to do all the things that it takes, I'm not gonna have as much fun. I am not about to ask somebody for help. So that would be, I guess, in the scope Muskogee for me is that I know that's coming. And by gosh, I'm going to make sure that I put it into my training. For other people, it could be something different. It could be for years, I did like mini triathlon sprint. And so that was always one of those things have always had this one particular one. That was the hardest one ever, like, nobody would sign up because it was so darn hard. And they'd be like, Why are you doing that? And like, it's so hard. You just feel so good when you get done. Right? So, and it can be different for all of us. Like, it doesn't have to be like the hardest sprint you've ever found or a Olympic trial you've ever found. But it can be something that you know is going to push you so far past your limit, that you never come back to who you were before. It's nice. Yeah, expanding that comfort zone. Yeah. Okay,

Philip Pape 27:46

so that that sounds great. I am inspired to think about next year and where that's gonna happen in my life since I had two little two girls, and they love adventure, too. So what does is that enough? Or is are there like quarterly check ins and plans that you recommend? Like what's what's your general philosophy on? Since we're talking about not losing weight and all the boring stuff went? How frequent is your cadence on these kinds of?

Kelly Howard 28:09

Yeah, that's a good question. So I think that, like having watched a lot of accountability groups, having run a bunch of accountability groups, what I've noticed is that people are usually pretty solid for except for let's let's take New Year's out because New Year's is an outlier, right? But if they get started on something, you're usually pretty solid for six to eight weeks, you know, that's they can hang, then things happen. Maybe they've been putting off the work that needs to happen next month needs to get taken care of, or the you know, whatever it is. So, somewhere in that six to eight week period, I always ask people just like, recheck in, you know, restart, almost recommit, then the other number is 90 days. And I like 90 days, because 90 days is such a, it's a quarter, it's like a friend of mine always says it's like 1% of the next 25 years of your life. I'm like, wow, actually, she's right, if you do the math, so that's just like 1% What's 90 days gonna give you and then stretch it way out once a year, like think of the changes that you could make in a year. And if you can look at those and then bring it back always I ask everybody to bring it back to what's next What's tomorrow? Right like what's really going on tomorrow because you can dream all you want but if you're not knowing exactly what's coming up next. Yeah,

Philip Pape 29:36

that's great. And otherwise it's just this black hole leading up to the future of overwhelm almost like what you know there's there's nothing that's there in a way from without those check ins. So it's interesting because I've heard different philosophy or science on on all of this how like having seasons and having holidays are really good for humans in terms of, you know, pushing you to do things Um, could a process itself and I'm kind of asking this selfishly, I lift weights, and I like to lift for a cycle, I like to go for maybe 1216 weeks. And so I think, okay, at the end of that, I'm going to do something very different. And those are going to drive, how I eat and how I sleep and do all my other things. That would that work for folks like just having their process kind of periodized? In that way? Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah,

Kelly Howard 30:26

I know exactly what you're saying. So when I have somebody who's going with me on a trip, usually those trips are a stretch, a big stretch, right? And so when we're training for it, what I asked him to do is to start out, and it's a little different than you because you have this solid foundation, right? So you can do 12 to 16 weeks, boom, you're on it. But a lot of people don't have that foundation. So I asked them to start out like the first week, it's kind of like a build week, you know, or a foundational week, and then the next week, we step it up, the next week, we step it up. And then that fourth week, we bring it back a little bit. Like it's an easier week. And then next next month, you know, step it up, steps up, but it's exactly what we talked about earlier, because every time they come back, they're coming back to a higher level in their foundation. And they're also paying attention to exactly what you said their sleep. Is this working with their sleep? Is it making it better or worse? Now, how's their nutrition? And it allows them to be really cognizant what's going on in their bodies, when in fact, a lot of them have never really thought about it before? And it's always been just kind of eat less calories and, and, you know, do more cardio to lose weight.

Philip Pape 31:46

Yeah, right? No, I like that approach. It's the analogies is be like progressive overload or taking the loads, and you're saying you're pushing and progressing each week, but then you're kind of resetting, taking a break, recovering, and then you're continuing to push. And that's that's a clever idea of people listening, think about how to apply that creatively to different things that they're doing. So that it's not always go, go, go, go, go. And push, push, push. And maybe just add to that thinking out loud. The things in your life that would normally interrupt what you're doing. You can naturally schedule those in that fourth week that put them off with that week. Yeah, exactly. Just planted like when people say, should I should I strength train for the week? I'm on vacation? I'm like, probably not. But like, why don't we think ahead and make sure that that week is the week you don't need? Right.

Kelly Howard 32:33

Right?

Philip Pape 32:35

This is good stuff. Okay, so you talked about there's the big event, and we talked about a little bit of the comfort zone expanding? And I know, Different people use different phrases, some some say, going out of your comfort zone. I like expanding it because because it allows you to kind of hold on to part of your comfort zone. How can I guess where was my question gonna be on? This is like how I how can women in particular because I know that your audience, try these new experiences, you know, to get out of their comfort zone.

Kelly Howard 33:04

So I'll bring it back in. And I'll tell you this, the number one thing I hear people say, when I mentioned anything like, like what we're talking about, like, you know, expanding, they'll say, I don't want to hold people back. Or the flip side of that is I don't know if I can keep up. So when you hear those words, to me, that's like, you know, somebody to stab me in the heart? Because Absolutely, you can. And so how do you do it? So using that, and then just figuring out that it's not as big a push as you think it is? Like, I'll use a little quick story, like I do a lot longest in cycling. I'm not a great cyclist. I mean, I can go but I'm not fast. And it used to drive me crazy, because all my friends would be up there and they get to the rest stop. And then here it comes Kelly right. And one day I started counting how far ahead of me are they really, they were like 15 seconds, maybe, maybe, maybe 30 seconds on a big day. Like I can see him up there. And it suddenly occurred to me that it's just not that big a deal. Right? It's just not that big a deal. And when you can start thinking that way, then it's easier to just relax and do these things. appreciate them and go for it. And and that comfort zone is becomes an easier thing to push. Because all of a sudden you're just realizing that it's just

Philip Pape 34:33

not that big a thing. Yeah, it's almost like you're saying that instead of focusing on the gap, this huge, whatever the gap is, it's more of just continuing to gain toward whatever

Kelly Howard 34:46

they are. Exactly. Exactly. What is the gap in the game. The game

Philip Pape 34:50

of the game. Right, right. Exactly. Did is that on your podcast? That actually sounds okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I feel like I've heard that before. He's either Listen to so many. Alright, so let's bring it full circle here. You know, I'm all about fun, positivity adventure, you know, where does the fun and positivity part fit into this? Particularly for people who made that may not be their natural tendency, let's just say, What are your thoughts on that? And the fun part

Kelly Howard 35:19

of it? Yeah. Oh, well, okay. I think deep down inside my absolute goal in life is to get everybody to go play. Like, I that's, that's what I've always been right? I can, no, I'm like this. And I'm not a good cheerleader, but I can cheer people on. So everybody should play, play gives us it takes our mind off of the pain. If, like, just recently a very, very long, hard hike, I was trying to be playful, because it was super painful, takes our mind off the pain. But more than that, it it gives us something larger to think about something bigger to play with in life. And play again, I don't think a lot of us have as much fun as we should. Really, like it's probably true. You know, we take things are very serious. Life is busy, and getting busier and busier and busier, the world has been probably even a little bit more crazy than it normally is. And we get consumed. And as soon as we get consumed in that our it's like our broad scope of awareness start shrinking. And when we can play more, have more fun. Our scope of awareness increases. When it increases, it allows us to see all the opportunities that are out there for us. And we have better choices, we can find new things to do. We can enjoy ourselves more. So it's probably a self fulfilling prophecy. The more fun you have, the more fun you have.

Philip Pape 36:55

I need to make sure to schedule that go kart I wanted to do with my kids, they just go for it. That's funny you say that because I know in my life with my two daughters, we I'm really busy. But we have we have we call daddy time every day. And there's always some little way to quote unquote play even if the rest of the day is just jam packed. You know, it could be putting Legos together or good for whatever. But but sometimes you're right, we get caught up and you know, maybe plays different for different people. And you could play on your own I suspect and with other people like doesn't matter. Is it more about the social aspect of players just doing something to amuse yourself?

Kelly Howard 37:34

Oh, yeah. So for me, I tend to be an introvert. Okay, actually, most of the stuff I do unless I'm on a whitewater river I'm doing by myself. And you know, like me, you have probably an unusual schedule. So I can go at certain times. So I do play by myself a lot. And when I can I reach out to friends and say, Hey, do you want to go do something? And keep asking until they can? Because there should be for me. It's like 8020 80% By myself. 20% social, and I love that social. And I love the time alone to

Philip Pape 38:13

cool. Yeah, I mean, there's that I encouraged people listening, just think about, especially as we go into the holidays here and so for some people, it gets even more hectic in different ways. How can you find time to play whatever play means to you? I imagine that could be that could be a board game that could be a sport that could be going for a walk at a fun place. You haven't been to believe there's million ways you can define it. Right? It's just something entertaining. Yeah. Okay, really,

Kelly Howard 38:36

if there's something that I have my clients do all the time, as I say, creative, listless. Okay, I want you to just write down if you could do something, what would it be, if you if there's something that you love to do, write it down, and, and keep writing until you've got a list of 2530 things. And some of them are going to be play. Some of them might be you know, reading, like for me taken off top taking time off during the middle of the day to read. That's like, that's like Sneaky, sneaky. But I love it. Right? So. So finding that thing, if you've always got that list, and you can pick from it when you when you have time where you forget. That's

Philip Pape 39:18

great. It's been intentional about it instead of when you're when you're exhausted at the end of the day, and maybe have a half an hour an hour. And now you just go watch TV, which again, watching TV could be a fun thing occasionally as well. But, you know, being intentional about is here. Yeah. I think yeah, no, this has been great. I think we covered a lot of what we wanted to but I do I do like to ask guests one this one question toward the end here. And that is, is there anything you wished I had asked? And what is your answer? Oh, I

Kelly Howard 39:45

love that. I love it. I always I asked people what I'm trying to get, you know, details out of them. Like coaching. Is there something you should ask let me think for just one second. Sure. Um honestly, I don't think so, like you're spot on when you do these podcasts. I love your podcast. Cool. I appreciate that. Yeah, I mean, you, you ask the questions, and we covered a lot of ground. Yes. Yeah. Great.

Philip Pape 40:18

And you made it easy. I mean, yeah, I think we meandered to all the things in that one topic. Of course, we can always talk about a million other things. But in that area, the fun the adventure, the consistency, accountability, I think we covered some really actual stuff. So thank you. Yes, thank you. So what where can people find you, Kelly, where do you want them to reach out to you?

Kelly Howard 40:37

Easiest place is just the website, which is that is freedom.com. It leads to my book, at least my social at least, finding me if you'd like to ask me questions. That's just the simplest place.

Philip Pape 40:49

Beautiful. Okay, fit is freedom.com. And your book is available as well. And I will put that in the show notes so people can can find you. And again, Kelly, this has been a pleasure. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you

Kelly Howard 41:01

very much. And thank you for everybody listening.

Philip Pape 41:06

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