Ep 145: Bryan Boorstein on Failure Training, Intensity, Home Gyms, Specialization, and Cardio

Have you ever wondered how to maximize muscle growth while saving time? Tune in as Bryan Boorstein reveals intensity techniques that’ll transform your workouts!

Today, Philip (@witsandweights) is joined by Bryan Boorstein, the mastermind and training genius. His extensive knowledge of training methods takes center stage as he delves into captivating topics. From lengthened partials to maximizing metabolic stress and from intensity techniques for efficient workouts to ideas for leg movements in a limited home gym, Bryan shares insights that will elevate your fitness game.

As a true “Renaissance Man” of health and fitness, Bryan’s training approach seamlessly integrates elements from bodybuilding, powerlifting, and athleticism. His content and coaching exude knowledge, nuance, and infectious passion, all aimed at helping YOU optimize your physique and performance.

With 25+ years of training experience, Byran collaborates with top athletes. As founder of Evolved Training Systems and Paragon Training Methods, he offers goal-oriented online programs for strength, physique, and skill development. Bryan co-hosts the Eat Train Prosper podcast, sharing practical strategies on nutrition, training, mindset, and lifestyle. His philosophy blends science, experience, and intuition for effective workouts.

Today, you’ll learn all about:

3:20 Lengthened partials - Bryan’s take
9:06 Failure training vs. effective reps - resolving the debate
15:59 Failure vs. submaximal training
24:21 Metabolic stress techniques - favorites and periodization
30:33 Strength vs. hypertrophy training
35:43 Building legs without machines
49:32 Optimizing cardio for muscle growth
58:09 Basic specialization approach
1:02:20 The question Byran wished Philip had asked
1:04:19 Outro

Episode resources:

• Instagram: @bryanboorstein – Tons of programs

Episode summary:

Philip Pape invites training expert Brian Borstein to share his extensive knowledge on enhancing physical self-mastery. The episode unfolds with a deep dive into the intersection of cardiovascular fitness and muscle recovery, which, when balanced correctly, can amplify muscle development. Brian enlightens us on the concept of stretch-mediated hypertrophy, where exercises are performed in a muscle's stretched position, a technique that can maximize tension and muscle growth. They explore the benefits of lengthened partials, metabolic stress, and intensity techniques that could revolutionize home gym workouts for leg day.

Brian brings a fresh perspective on cardio, once thought to detract from muscle gains, now understood to be a synergistic component when properly programmed. Cardiovascular work is not only an integral part of fitness and fat loss, but also plays a crucial role in enhancing recovery and allowing for increased gym volume. In this insightful conversation, Brian and Philip dissect the effective reps model, the concept of training to failure, and the merits of personalized workout regimes. They share their personal victories across various training volumes, laying out a roadmap for listeners to tailor their path to fitness success.

As they continue, the focus shifts to the evolution of training methods and intensity techniques. Philip recounts his journey through various fitness programs, from the high-intensity MaxOT to the sub-failure efficiency of CrossFit, and the influence of the evidence-based fitness movement. They touch on the mental and physical challenges presented by intensity techniques like rest-pause and drop sets, emphasizing the need for balance and a sustainable approach that maintains health for lifelong fitness.

Moving into practical application, the episode details how to optimize quad and hamstring training with adjustments for different gym environments. Brian provides actionable tips for those limited to home gyms or commercial gym settings, demonstrating how innovative methods, like the foam roller hack squat, can mimic experiences one might get from professional gym equipment. He further discusses the relevance of single-leg exercises and their versatility in targeting specific muscle groups.

The conversation takes a turn towards the relationship between cardio and muscle gains, busting myths surrounding the interference effect. They delve into recent research that underscores the complementarity of cardiovascular and resistance training, emphasizing improved fitness, recovery, and adaptation from workouts. Brian shares his personal experiences with zone two heart rate training, a measure of cardiovascular fitness that can indicate better mitochondrial function.

Lastly, they explore strategies for body part specialization within a training program, discussing the concept of rotating specialization cycles to focus on volume for targeted muscle groups. The discussion includes practical implementation advice, adjusting exercise order, and proximity to failure to achieve the best results for physique optimization.

This episode is a treasure trove of knowledge for anyone looking to elevate their fitness regimen. Brian Borstein's insights and Philip Pape's engaging discussion provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the latest strategies in muscle growth, cardio synergy, and the art of personalized training. As they conclude, listeners are left with a wealth of information to apply to their workouts and a motivation to push the boundaries of conventional fitness wisdom.

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Transcript

Bryan Boorstein  00:00

It seems intuitively that if you're able to increase your cardiovascular fitness at least to like a decent base level, that this then improves your recovery adaptations allows you to do more volume in the gym and thus you know elicit better gains across the board.

Philip Pape  00:16

Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in. Wits & Weights community Welcome to another episode of the Wits & Weights Podcast. Today I'm joined by mastermind and training genius Brian Borstein. I brought Brian on the show to share with you his vast knowledge on train methods. And we're gonna get into some fun topics like lengthen partials, maximizing metabolic stress intensity techniques to save time and ramp up muscle growth, ideas for leg movements and a home gym. His nuanced and Recently Updated thoughts on cardio and how to specialize your training to get jacked and swell in all the right places. Brian Borstein is a renaissance man of health and fitness. His approach to training combines the best of bodybuilding powerlifting, and athleticism. And he always brings knowledge, nuance and infectious passion into his content and coaching to help you optimize your physique and performance. With over 25 years of training experience, Brian has worked with some of the world's top athletes. He's the founder of evolved training systems and Paragon training methods, offering online goal oriented training programs for strength, physique, and skill at all levels. He's also co hosts of one of my favorite shows, eat train prosper, along with Aaron Stryker, where he shares practical strategies on nutrition training, mindset and lifestyle. Ryan's philosophy combines science experience and intuition to create effective and enjoyable workouts. He's also an intellectually curious dude who takes knowledge from multiple fields, everything from neuroscience and psychology to elite athletic coaching, and even philosophy and he makes cross disciplinary connections that would elude narrower minds. Brian challenges the myths and assumptions in the fitness industry and today he brings his formidable intellect to Wits & Weights, to share his wit and wisdom to empower you to become your best self. So if you self identify as an athlete, aspiring athlete, or you're just a seeker of excellence and personal growth, get ready to learn and be inspired by the master the innovator Brian Borstein. Welcome to the show, Brian.

Bryan Boorstein  02:37

Hey, man, you know, I had high expectations coming in and and you exceeded them. So, you know, that is that is a great trait upon yourself to be able to go in with high expectations and then come out, still exceeding them. So I appreciate the introduction. I'm glad to be here. And yeah, thank you for having me.

Philip Pape  02:56

Yeah, we were joking before because when I reached out to Brian, just for the listener knows what the epic introductions. I sent him a funny video some of my past intros. He's like, ah, the bar is really high, man, you gotta you gotta top that. So Challenge accepted. And, and well deserved. So anyway, you know, I want to jump right into some of the topics. I think the audience will get to know you what you do and your philosophy through our conversation. And I just want to start with lengthen partials. This is a technique where also called long length partials and I think Stretch, stretch mediated hypertrophy, where you perform only the bottom half the exercise, right where the muscles are most stretched. And the intent is to increase tension to produce more hypertrophy. My question for you is do you use these in your personal training? And then do you find them effective?

Bryan Boorstein  03:42

Yeah, you know, I started using them and experimenting with them back in, I want to say 2019, maybe it was early 2020. But there was this initial study by Mao and colleagues that came out around that same time and ascent, it was the first one of this era of research to kind of promote the benefit of lengthen partials or not even LinkedIn partials per se, but that there is benefit to training at long muscle lengths. And so in this study, what they did is they simply compare to a seated leg curl in a hip flexed position, where the hamstring is pre stretched to a lying leg curl in which the hamstring is not pre stretched, and transited shorter muscle legs. And the most interesting part of this whole study wasn't just that the hamstrings grew more from the seated leg curl. It was actually that three of the hamstring muscles grew more from the seated leg curl, but the was it the chrysalis. There was one specific hamstring muscle, the one that wraps around, it's not the chrysalis. It'll come back to me. But one specific hamstring muscle grew more on the lying leg curl Sartorius it was a Sartorius and it's because the sartorius is actually more lengthened, more stretched out in the line. Lying leg curl. So three of them grew more in the seated leg girl because they're more stretched out. And one of them grew more in the lying leg curl because it is more stretched out. And I am always one to jump on things early not to sit there and try and promote to the world that this is the greatest thing. And like one study says we need to do this. So everybody needs to train with these stretch mediated movements, more just that I had been training 20 years at that point. And the opportunity to experiment with something new, was really exciting to me. And so I began training with this notion of long muscle lengths at that time. And then that progressed very quickly from the next sequence of studies that came through that actually did compare lengthen partials to full range. In fact, the next study that I was privy to was Pedrosa and colleagues. And they compared leg extensions that were done at five different ranges of motion, but the only three of them are really important. So they compared one group that did full range of motion leg extensions, one group that just did the bottom of the leg extension up to 50, or 60 degrees of range of motion, or 50 to 60% of the range of motion, it was up to 150 degrees, maybe 140, something like that. And then the third group only did the the short range of motion. So they went from that, like 130 degrees of knee flexion, all the way up to 180, where the legs would be straight, and they just did the top half. And so the the group that did the bottom half only outperformed not just the short muscle length group, but also outperformed the full range of motion muscle group, muscle range group. So at that point, I was like, fully, and that was 2000 22,021. And I began experimenting with them in pretty much all of my movements at that point.

Philip Pape  06:47

And I mean, so just for the average guy who's you know, running a standard hypertrophy Program, or 40, split or something like that, do you recommend adding them in replacing sets with them doing a more for isolation work versus, you know, some bigger lifts because I know, Jeff nippert and others, you know, post content about this all the time, and he's doing them with squats. So what are your general recommendations there?

Bryan Boorstein  07:07

Yeah, I've been a little slower to jump on the bandwagon for lengthen partials for movements that are already lengthened. And so for that, you know, we have movements like an RDL. We have movements like a squat, we have movements, like dumbbell bench press, things like that. And so in my mind, for the first few years of this experimentation, I was thinking, Why would I need to do a lengthen partial on a movement that is already lengthened, overloaded, it's biased to that range of motion already. And even now, I have been experimenting with those, I still mostly feel the same way that you know, there might be very, very, very slight benefit to doing lengthen partials in those movements. But because it is lengthen, overloaded, all the real benefit is by doing a lengthen partial there is spending more of your time under tension in the length and range. Whereas I think a movement that is short overloaded in nature, think, pull downs, rows, leg extensions, leg curls, things like that. Lateral Raises are another really good one, if you're spending the majority of your time or the movement is hardest in the short position, it seems to me that there would be even extra benefit in doing lengthen partials there, and or going to failure at the full range and then letting range of motion drop off as fatigue increases. Ya

Philip Pape  08:34

know, it's interesting, because I have friends that are that are, you know, swear by it. And it's not like it's, it's easier, necessarily, especially when you're doing like you said, for movements that are already lengthen, you know, if you try squats, you realize that, like you said, you're just constantly under tension, it's pretty hard. So it's just trying to, you know, these nuanced things, like you said, they're the become hot topics in the industry, everybody wants to try them, but they're not, you know, they're not gonna replace what's tried and true there may be going to enhance and optimize. So alright, yeah, I was just curious about that. Cool. All right. So another topic that's that's big these days. And you you recently posted about it is the effective reps model, you know, failure training, but specifically the idea that only those last few reps, you know, before failure are the ones that actually count are the ones actually stimulate muscle growth. And for various reasons, the motor motor unit recruitment, the velocity slowing down, whatever. And yet, you pointed out that you can still see effectiveness by modifying volume, even when you're using low or IR which isn't in that range that regime. You in your post, you concluded by saying the following quote, There are many roads to Rome, hypertrophy is extremely forgiving, and that you can train in a variety of ways and achieve hypertrophy. Just make sure the big rocks are satisfied, sufficient effort, sufficient volume, sufficient recovery. So doubling down for us. What are your thoughts on the effective reps model without a four hour podcast and always

Bryan Boorstein  09:59

Yeah, this was from a four hour podcast by data driven strength. And so for anybody that wants the full unabridged version, you can go check that one out. But yeah, I mean, you know, I get questions from young kids all the time in my DMs or elsewhere on the podcast, whatever. And they're always really obsessed with these super nuanced topics like long muscle length training, or like training to failure versus volume, or volume being the primary driver of hypertrophy and all of these things. And at some level, that matters, eventually. But I think that what gets you the most benefit, and probably who's going to take you to 98, or 99% of your genetic potential, is just going to be doing it for a really long time, doing a decent amount of volume, and working pretty damn hard. And recovery is a necessary evil that comes along with that, right? The more work you do, the harder you do that work, the more you have to recover. Another thing that these kids often forget to consider is that they want to do this for life, potentially, they don't just want to get jacked in five years, and then be like, oh, sweet, I'm jacked. Now I can stop training as hard. And I can just go like, be jacked. And that's not really the way this works. I mean, it's a, it's a lifelong game. And for somebody that's been doing it for 25 years, there's a sustainability piece to this as well. And so even if we can look at this new envious study that came out, where it's like, oh, 52 sets to failure per muscle group per week, is gonna get you the most jacked. People fail to look at that, and extrapolate out and back up and say, okay, even if during six or eight weeks, or whatever that study was, the people that worked up to 52 sets did get more jacked than the people that were doing less sets, you got to think of the long term and what does 52 sets a week to failure due to your motivation? What does it do to your joint structures? What does it do to all of the elements that go into creating a lifelong commitment to this endeavor? And so I think, dialing that back to back to the effective reps model is that there are many ways to rope. I have heard so many stories in the trenches from people that swear that, you know, they were doing high volume training. And when they cut their volume back, and they just started going to failure on one or two hard sets, their physiques completely changed. And then I've heard the exact opposite, where people were going to fail, you're doing one too hard, too hard sets per muscle group. And they're like, everything changed when I started doing high volumes and stopped going so close to failure. And I've heard enough of these stories that I just believe them, I think the literal Right, right. Everybody's right, everybody's getting jacked, and everybody's doing things. And so ultimately, my sense of this is that whatever method it is, that speaks to you, and keeps you motivated to train and keeps your body healthy, is probably the one you should do. And so for many people, that's, you know, hey, going close to failure, maybe your form gets compromised, and you end up tweaking your shoulder, tweaking your low back, jacking up your knees squatting, whatever it is, maybe you're not the type of person that should be doing one or two hard sets to failure for each muscle group, maybe you'd be much better off doing 20 to 30 sets at four to six RSR whatever. And so, you know, kind of dialing it back to that actual study. And the thoughts on the effective reps model is the effective reps model essentially states that the closer you get to failure, the more stimulus you get. And I don't really think that that's arguable. Right? Right. The part of it that is arguable are the people. And there's plenty of them out there that say that nothing prior to five reps from failure is stimulative. And that's kind of kind of absurd to even like I almost like struggle to even fathom that, that somebody could say that, because they're literally saying at that point that somebody could do 100 sets, but because they're all at six reps from failure, that they're not going to get any gains. And like, you can just look across the board through anecdote at the way football players have trained for years or the way Olympic lifting athletes train like explosive athletes, and they almost never go to failure. They're just idling technique gets all submaximal work styling technique. All these people are jacked. And so yeah, I think that, you know, there's a number of misconceptions out there about that. But the one thing that isn't arguable is the closer you get to failure, you get more stimulus. But what you do with that is up to you and how many sets you decide to do is going to be dependent upon how close to failure you train.

Philip Pape  14:40

Yeah. And the reason I'm asking you all these is it is kind of a little bit of a bait, but you knew it was coming because that's what you get all the time to get into these other principles of why these things matter. I think Eric helms said recently on his show, like science looks at the norm right looks at the population mean, no matter how big of a sample size you have, what the takeaways are, what may work for most people most of the time, well, that leaves a huge percentage of people that it doesn't work for, like you said, and it's going to vary. So number one experiment right over time, don't just assume that one thing is going to work for you. And I'm sure you see that as somebody who programs, you know, for people, but keeping your body healthy, you know, I didn't start this young, like you or maybe others have, there's a lot of folks who listen here just getting into this, like in their 40s, or 50s. And whether you started young or not, recovery is a huge issue. And you know, we get injuries and surgeries and life and stress and all these things that pile on, I would rather find something that is modest volume, slightly submaximal. That doesn't kill the joints, but still gives me like you said, the 98% progress. A friend of mine, were joking about these nuanced things that the 20 year olds bring up or like that that might be for the point zero 1% elite, that's not you. Like that's just shut up? At least not yet. Now, yeah, not now. Go for it. But it's not yet. Right. So have your views changed at all over the years on the failure versus submaximal training, like, as you've aged, and as you've trained all this time? Yeah, I've actually gone through

Bryan Boorstein  16:08

a number of iterations of training philosophies through my life. So I have a number of different experiences. If you don't mind, I'll just take you through like, very brief version of it. But when I first started in 1997, I stumbled across a group on a community chat board at the time, if you know, there wasn't social media, so it was a easy board. And the group was called power in bulk. And the big voice in power in bulk at the time was a gentleman named Paul Carter. And we all know Paul Carter. Now, Paul Carter is a very antagonizing voice in the industry. And I think that, you know, I personally don't agree with a lot of what he says these days. But one thing that he did that I really think was great for me starting out was he told me back in the late 90s, to basically pick six big movements. And it was a it was a horizontal push a horizontal pole, a vertical push a vertical pole, a squat and a hinge. And he was like, just do those six movements get brutally strong at them, when you can, you know, bench 300, squat, 400, deadlift, 500, then you can start thinking about body part splits and volume manipulation and all of these things. And I thought that was incredible advice. And so that's exactly what I did. If you fast forward about 15 years, I found him on Instagram, seven or eight years ago, and I was like, Hey, dude, like, thanks so much for that great advice you gave me so many years ago, you know, and he goes, Oh, that was stupid advice. I would never give that advice again, you know, and I was like, Well, I thought I thought it was really good advice. But anyway, so I did that for three or four years, basically, three times a week, full body with those six big movements spread across the week. And I got great results. Nothing to complain about. I learned how to train hard and it was super important, mostly like kind of five by five or three by eight type stuff. And then after that I got distracted by the muscle magazines would probably be the best way of saying that as as many of us do. And I followed some of the like Muscle and Fitness body parts splits for a while. But luckily, I then stumbled across a program called Max O T. And God, are you familiar with Maximus? You know, I haven't heard of that one. Alright, cool. So Max O T is a program, you actually can still find it online at as T sports science. It is a body part split program. But what they promoted was low volumes, so is six to nine sets per week per body part. So it's like, you know, Monday's chest day, Tuesday's back day, Wednesday's legs type thing. But it was six to nine hard sets per muscle group, and everything was in the four to six or four to eight rep range. Depending on isolation movements were like the eight, six to eight rep range. But all compounds were four to six. And every set was taken to absolute failure. But because the proximity, or because the volume was low, you could get away with taking all these movements to failure. And then they also did something that was pretty unique at the time, which is that they promoted a D loader Recovery Week, every eight to 10 weeks. So this program I ran off and on literally until 2009, I would say I ran that program off and on for like six to eight years. And I thought it was extremely productive. The best gains that I made through my entire training history was was on Maxa tea. I think that could have been partially because that's when I was turning into a man. And you know, I was eating a bunch of food at the dining hall at college and all that stuff. Yeah, you can't just just give credit to the program. But it did happen to to be that timeframe. After that, I found CrossFit in 2009. And I went through about seven years of competing and coaching in CrossFit. And so that was a completely different stimulus to anything I had done prior. Pretty much everything you do in CrossFit is sub failure because it's all about maximizing efficiency over Time. So that was definitely different. And then when I popped out of CrossFit in 2016, there was this whole new evidence based sphere. And it didn't exist. In the past. There wasn't Brad Schoenfeld and all of these different research RCT research controlled designs and, and all of this stuff. And so I became obsessed with it as as the nerdy science brain that I have. I was like, Oh, my God, like my brain was exploding 20 years into training, I was like, felt like a newbie in the gym again. And the first thing I stumbled across was RP. And Mike is retail. And so that was really my first experience into purposefully not training to failure, and purposefully trying to prioritize volume over proximity to failure stimulus

Philip Pape  20:45

to fatigue ratio. Yeah,

Bryan Boorstein  20:47

yeah, exactly. And, you know, working on exercise selection as an important component, like, does this exercise give me better stimulus to fatigue and that exercise, and so it opened up this whole new world of framing how I was training. And so that was interesting, because I found myself continually trying to push volume. And the way that they programmed at RP and they still do is to the best of my knowledge, is they start mesocycles, far from failure, and then they progress them closer and closer to failure until you reach a point where you're basically at failure, you fatigue is super sky high, and then you d load you recycle and repeat. And so I did that for about two years. And I think it was fine. I, I, I would say that if anything, I lost motivation. It was like the volume was so high, and the fact that you could start a mesocycle at one hour of training. And by the time you add volume, and add proximity to failure and all this stuff, you finish a mesocycle. And your sessions are taking two hours. And they're doubly as hard as they were in the beginning. And so to me, that didn't make a ton of sense. Then I kind of went the other way, and began slowly reducing volume and slowly working closer to failure, which has sort of settled me on the philosophy that I've used for the last few years now where, for the most part, I stick between six to 10 sets per body part per week. And one thing I actually do that I think is semi unique is I took from the RP approach is this progression of proximity to failure across the cycle. And I also in a sense, progressive volume, but I do it very differently than they did. So they would progress it by adding sets week to week, what I tend to do is I add intensity. So we'll go from two reps from failure to one rep from failure to failure by week three, and then on movements that are conducive to it, we'll go into partials and then we'll do rest pause sets. And then we'll do drop sets, and then we'll do lengthened sets. And so each week from three on, we're adding intensity techniques to further bias the length and position to further add stimulus. But we're not doing it by adding a full set, we're just adding like a little teeny dose of stimulus. And, and I've found this to be extremely productive for me. And for clients for the last three years or so.

Philip Pape  23:11

Man, there's so much there. And I could identify with a lot because of your age. And when you've been alive, you're sort of at the ground floor of all of these shifts that we've seen over the last 20 years, from the muscle magazines to the training with the maxilla team and I was in CrossFit for eight years myself. So I get it I started at around 2011 and wasn't very consistent with it. But first time I ever touched a barbell was in CrossFit. So give them credit for that. It's funny because it sounds like you've come a little bit full circle back to the max O T stuff you were doing the 60s and like roughly the same volume per body part, roughly the same kind of in that low end hypertrophy, high end strength range, let's call it you know, my coach is Andy Baker, you probably know any Baker. He's been on the show a few times. But a lot of what you're talking about reminds me of like conjugate style programming does a little bit of that, right? Where you're testing your one RMS to get the intensity, but then you have this dynamic work. That's at a much lower, you know, that's submaximal later in the week. Anyway, it's cool stuff. So with the RP, Renaissance periodization stuff, that's that's all RPE based, right? You were saying? Yeah, well, I

Bryan Boorstein  24:14

mean, that's what I started back when I came out of CrossFit like 2016 1718 That was kind of my RP time. Yeah.

Philip Pape  24:20

So then you mentioned intensity technique. good segue. You've been recently talking about that a lot, too. And I love that stuff, too. Man, the rest, pause the dog crap, rest, pause and drop sets and things like that. So you've been talking about metabolic stress intensity techniques, techniques, like mile reps and drop sets. Why is that principle important? Is it mainly for saving time and taking advantage of the training to failure theory we just talked about or is it? You know, is there another reason to incorporate them?

Bryan Boorstein  24:47

Yeah, you know, I think metabolic stress is certainly a piece of doing rest pause sets and drop sets that that you wouldn't get by just doing straight sets. But I do. I do. would say what you said May is probably more of the reasons in that, it ensures that you're close to failure, especially for clients like intermediate clients that I'm working with that really need to know where failure is, there's nothing like getting them to failure, then making them do rest, pause or drop sets, drop sets can be a little tough, you don't want to drop too much weight, or else it just becomes they're not really reaching failure because of metabolic fatigue, or mental fatigue. It's just like it burns too much. It's like cardio. Yeah, exactly. But when I do drop sets, I tend to drop very little. So the typical drop that you see in studies is like 30 to 40%, I'll usually drop 20%, at most. And so it's usually getting about the same amount of reps that you would get from a rest pause. So if I'm doing a set of eight reps to failure, close to failure, and then I do a rest, pause, where it's 20 seconds rest, I might get three reps, maybe four, if I do a drop set, and I dropped 20%, but I don't take any rest, it's basically the same thing, you're getting four, maybe five reps. So you're still in that zone, where you can actually be confident that you're hitting failure without it being because you're mentally weak, or it burns too much, or it's metabolic fatigue, or something like that. So I love both of those. For that reason, I also love them for time saving, which you also noted, because, you know, everything comes back around in the industry like drops, this used to be so popular in the muscle mag days, you would always be like 10 864 Plus drop set back to the 10 rep weight, like that was that was the way we trained, you know, 26 for increasing weight, you hit a setup for failure, dropped the weight back to the 10 go to failure, again, that was so standard, and it was so effective. And then there was this this period of time and the evidence based space where it seemed as if drop sets got this really bad rap because you're reducing load, which means you're reducing mechanical tension. And mechanical tension is the primary driver of hypertrophy, or whatever. But in reality, my statement is always the muscle is a dumb piece of meat. And it only knows tension. And it doesn't know if you're like this, this is an example, if you're doing a hack squat or some sort of squat pattern movement, and you're taking long as rests at the top of every rep, you can do more weight. But that doesn't mean you're getting more mechanical tension that if you did constant tension reps and therefore used less weight, your your muscles only know the tension that they're receiving. And so when you look at it from that perspective, things like drop sets and rest pause sets and these other intensity methods that force weight reduction, they should be in theory just as effective as doing the straight sets with higher quote, mechanical tension, because you're using higher loading, right? And it seems like the new studies are showing that man, if you look at I think it was Max Coleman was part of the group that led the recent study on drop sets and meta analysis. And they found basically the same thing that I mean, I could be misquoting this, but I think it was five sets of one top set plus four drops was the same as doing three straight sets. Which if you think about it, man, like that's a way faster approach that way faster. Yeah, do a set rest three minutes, do a set rest three minutes, right, you can do one top set, drop that shit four times, and you get the same effect as doing three straight sets. So at least when it comes to hypertrophy, I have been a huge fan of those techniques. And then the other thing I've been using a lot is the progression into lengthened work. So many people that are into lengthened work, they use it from the get go and week one, it's like, Hey, we're biasing this lengthen position go. I really think it's something that you can use as a tool to elicit a higher stimulus throughout a mesocycle. So why not get those easy gains in the beginning in weeks 123 When you're sensitive to the stimulus, and then use the lengthen work more as a tool to increase that stimulus as the mesocycle drags on. Man,

Philip Pape  28:54

I love all that just even the fact that you can use these techniques to teach yourself about failure. You know, my coach has a lot of these programmed in just yesterday I was doing earlier in the week, xe presses with rest pause and it's like, you get 10 then you get five then you maybe get to you know, on that last set, you're just like I can't lift it. So obviously there's some stress there and some and you get a pump and everything so it makes sense.

29:19

My name is Tony, I'm a strength lifter in my 40s Thank you to Phil in his Wits & Weights community for helping me learn more about nutrition and how to implement better ideas into my strength training. Phil has a very, very good understanding of macros and chemical compounds and hormones and all that and he's continuously learning. That's what I like about Phil. He's got a great sense of humor. He's very relaxed, very easy to talk to. One of the greatest things about Phil in my view is that he practices what he preaches. He also works out with barbells he trains heavy you notice that he has made but he trains heavy so if you talk with him about getting in better shape eating better, he's probably going to give you some good advice and I would strongly recommend you You talk with him and help you out thanks.

Philip Pape  30:04

Descending sets are another one actually where you know, you work in a rep range, and you simply drop the weight 10% with the full rest period. So, rather than an intensity technique, you were talking about the fact that we should still be able to get just as much hypertrophy even at a lower weight, a lower load. That's another example that comes to mind. That's not an intensive technique, right? But you can at least let's say you're, you're in the eight to 12 range, and you hit eight or nine reps, you drop the weight after the rest period, and now you still hit it eight or nine, you're still training close to failure just had a lighter weight. What's the counter argument, though? You mentioned for hypertrophy, what about the argument that intensity has its own benefits in terms of load for, say, motor recruitment? Is that reserved mainly for strength and specificity in that regime, like with the big movements, or whatever? Yeah,

Bryan Boorstein  30:50

I mostly speak from a hypertrophy angle. And so I'm getting the sense of the fact that you work with Andy Baker, I'm getting the sense that you have more strength or neural based goals along the way,

Philip Pape  31:01

which I'm actually running his bodybuilding track right now. Okay, personally, it's a six day like a lot of what you're taught, okay, actually, but yeah, but like,

Bryan Boorstein  31:08

even conjugate and stuff like that, like, I don't use I don't touch conjugate type stuff. But yeah, I mean, everything that I come from, from my perspective is in optimizing hypertrophy. And so if we're talking strength, or neural adaptations, or skill development, or anything along those lines, yeah, the game changes for sure, I mean, rest becomes extremely important, because you need to optimize efficiency. And if your like, the biggest problem I see with strength work is people going too close to failure. And when they go too close to failure, they're compromising their motor recruitment. Like, you can just imagine, you know, what a deadlift looks like at rep eight to failure versus rep one, when you're seven reps from failure. And there's not a single person in the world that can make rep eight look exactly the same as rep one, or maybe like, you know, professional powerlifters. And whatever can but but the majority of people out there, there's going to be something that is compromised in the technique, even if it doesn't look like it to the naked eye, even on camera. There's something internally, that joint angles are just slightly shifting, different muscle groups are coming in to do the job. And so it seems to me from what I understand of the research, that the strength gains are just better, manifested further from failure. And I remember a study a number of years ago, that compared four sets of 10, to five sets of and noted to five sets of 10 to 10, sets of five or something along those lines, it was something where the volume was matched. But the group that was doing the sets of five was using their 10 rep max. And what they found was that hypertrophy was relatively equivalent across the groups, I think the group that was going to failure at 10 rep sets actually did better. But the group that was doing the sets of five, with five RSR on each set, they got significantly better strength gains. And so that just speaks to exactly what I'm saying. I mean, you just have to move perfectly. My basketball coach used to always say, practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect and bad practice makes bad habits permanent. And and I think that that applies to, to to strength training as well.

Philip Pape  33:20

So is there is there a logical leap from that to say to saying that, maybe you don't need deadlifts in your programming, if you're going for hypertrophy, like and I'm just making a big logical leap. Right, but because it's such a big taxing movement that requires that motor, you know, yeah, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, no,

Bryan Boorstein  33:40

I don't program deadlifts for for clients. I haven't programmed to deadlift for a hypertrophy client. In since I left CrossFit, really, I mean, literally, it was Mike is retelling the Renaissance periodization group back in 2016 17. When I started following that, they were big on that train of why would you do deadlifts when you can do RDLs or stiff legged deadlifts and get more for the target muscle with less fatigue to the other muscle groups stimulus to fatigue ratio, right. And so yeah, I haven't programmed deadlifts. I don't personally do deadlifts. I brought them back into a cycle for myself during a strength cycle maybe two or two and a half years ago. And for like, two weeks, I was like, Yeah, deadlifts. This is awesome. I haven't done deadlifts for so long. And then by week three, I was like, What am I doing? Like I am so taxed.

Philip Pape  34:30

There's so toxic. Yeah. So,

Bryan Boorstein  34:33

yeah, I don't really think they have much of a place and a hypertrophy program, I think that I could program them in in an intelligent manner. And if someone was really adamant that they wanted them in there, right, they could be used as a hypertrophy movement. But it's like it's so ambiguous as to what they even train you don't know do you put it on like upper body polling day do you put it on in ham day like, like, where do you put it? Because it just it trains everything. It's true

Philip Pape  34:59

is through and and I've seen that rationale of like, sometimes they're included in that particular programs just because people want them just want to do them. Or maybe they're trying to have their cake and eat it too. It's like a power building, you know, program where you maintain some of that specificity for strength, but then also build muscle. But you're right. It's so fatiguing for us older guys, too. Like that's one of the areas you really get hit. When you do too many deadlifts. Yeah, I can tell from personal experience. Cool, man. So I know. Here's the here's another segue then since you were just talking about hamstrings and leg work is a lot of folks are working in their home gyms and I know you, you offer programming for folks who you know, online, who may be going to their own commercial gym or at home, speaking to the home gym goer, so to speak, legs are one of the toughest, at least in my experience in talking with my nutrition clients of trying to get a good well rounded workout because now you need like eight different machines, if you're trying to get everything done. Like for I personally have a vertical leg press and I have a leg developer which is more than most people have in their own gym. We have a rack and maybe maybe a leg developer. How does somebody with you know, and I joked chicken legs? Who wants to build those clauses hands, get the bigger legs? Do it at home? What are your, like two to three most effective movements or equipment or whatever? Yeah,

Bryan Boorstein  36:17

you know, okay, we just did an episode on the train, prosper where it was, it was quads training. And we cool, we basically discussed how you would optimize your quad training for a commercial gym for a home gym. And then for people that only have dumbbells. And so there's three different tiers of kind of how you could go about this. And really, what you just want to do with the home gym, is try to emulate the commercial gym as closely as you can. And so when we're like us, for legs, specifically, we're not just looking at quads, so I'll give you two or three movements for quads, two or three movements for hamstrings. Yep, cool. So for quads, the first thing is to focus on what is your big compound squatting movement going to be. And so you don't have a hack squat machine, you don't have a leg press, you don't have a pendulum squat. But we have two really cool variations that you can do at home. And the first most accessible easiest one is simply the foam roller hack squat. And this was an incredible creation that came out of COVID times basically, a you Jack a foam roller up behind your back horizontal, you put it in the bottom, crease your low back, you put your feet out in a proper squat stance, and you squat down and you grab some dumbbells off the ground, and then you just keep squatting. And the foam roller against the wall essentially acts as a back support for you. And that was a primary movement that I did for six months during the beginning of COVID. And I found that it was extremely productive for quad development. Now if you don't want to do that movement, or you want some other variation, a heels elevated back squat is an extremely quality movement as well. I love doing the heels elevated back squat with a three or four second eccentric with a two or three second pause at the bottom with your ass your ass on your ankles, basically, getting as much knee flexion forward as you can, which is the benefit of the heel wedge there. And then high bar high bar you're so high bar. Yeah, so this is this is the caveat is when you ascend up, the first thing that people want to do is stick their butt up in the air and let their torso fall over. But by doing that, all you're doing is shifting all the tension to the glutes. So what you're gonna have to do is you're gonna have to drop the weight about to 60% of what you would use for a standard back squat without a heel wedge, just doing it for load. And you're gonna now we're doing it for hypertrophy. So what I would I would, here's an example, I would squat, safe 365 For six would be my best like, just hey, I'm going to try and get strong high bar squat. When I went to the heels elevated squat the way that I just talked about it with the slow negative the pause at the bottom, the big chest coming up not making making sure my house doesn't fly up first. I dropped the weight first down to 225. And I stuck there for a few weeks. And then eventually I worked up to 265 for sets of six to eight. But that's a paltry weight compared to 365 You're literally talking like two thirds of the weight and it took me months and months to even work up to that. So I would drop the weight to 60% maybe even less dial in that form your quads will be screaming at you sounds

Philip Pape  39:22

like a man. But is that is that a do? Can you just have weightlifting shoes with plates underneath? Is that enough? Or do you need like a really steep ledge? Yeah,

Bryan Boorstein  39:30

you can do weightlifting shoes with a plate underneath that's fine. The the wedge, even the wedge that I would recommend would probably be a 20 degree wedge. And so that's not like a super super high wedge. I find for most people if you have weightlifting shoes on, you can use a 10 pound plate which isn't even that high, and that'll give you enough knee flexion for most people. If you have really bad ankle mobility, you might want to use a 25 pound plate, but now you're looking at stability concerns potentially. So you do kind of have have to walk that fine line there.

Philip Pape  40:01

And it sounds like a safety bar be a good option for this safety bar would be the best. Yeah, I

Bryan Boorstein  40:06

mean, if you have a safety bar 100% Yeah. Okay, so those are the first two quad movements. Then you have single leg squats of all varieties, you have front foot, elevated split squats, rear foot, elevated split squats, walking lunges, glute dominant, or quad dominant, and that basically just is determined by your torso and Shin angle. So just much like the heels elevated back squat. If you want to target your quads, you want your torso super high up and you want your knee super far over your toe. If you want glute dominant, you send your torso forward, almost like a hybrid RDL squat type movement. And then you try to keep your front chin vertical. And if you can keep your front chin vertical, and how to send your torso over your knee, you're gonna get a lot more glute priority from that exercise. So, so single leg squats of all varieties. And then the last quad movement that you need is something for the rec FEM. And since you don't have a leg extension machine, the go to that I always uses sissy squats. Some people aren't huge fans of sissy squats. So we'll use the reverse Nordic or some people call it the bodyweight leg extension. Kind of hard to explain, but you basically kneel on the ground with your feet behind you, and you kind of fall backwards, but you fall backwards without your hip angle changing. So your torso should form a straight line through your quads, and you fall back till your butt touches your heels, basically. And then you come forward again, without breaking your hip angle at all. Yeah, that'll

Philip Pape  41:37

really stretch out that. That quad tissue there.

Bryan Boorstein  41:39

I'm like, exactly, yeah, so those are the those three quad movements are gonna slay. And then hamstrings are not super challenging. The one thing that you really struggle with with hamstring work without a commercial gym is leg curls. And so the primary movements that we've used in this situation are different hacks to do them at home. My favorite one is actually a slider leg curl. So you put your heels on a towel on a floor, and then you'd kind of lift your hips up, and you just basically slide your feet back toward your butt and then slide your feet back out and slide your feet to where your butt and slide your feet back out. That'll get you a nice hamstring stimulus. You can also do it with banded leg curls. So you can set up a band anchored against the bottom of your power rack, and you can do lying leg curls that way. The problem with the band is it often loses tension at the length and position. And so I've found if you connect two bands together, so you have like a really thick band connected to a slightly thinner band, and then you're basically further away from the anchor point as a result of that, but it kind of evens out the resistance profile for you a little bit. And then another one you can do if you have a rower like a C two rower at home, is you can put your heels onto the seat of the rower and with your back off the edge of the back of the rower on the ground. And essentially do the same slider leg curl where their heels are coming toward you and your heels are going away from you type thing. So that'll get you that RDL stiff legged deadlifts you don't need a commercial gym. For that you just need a barbell or some dumbbells. And then if you have the ability to do any sort of, like you mentioned, a glute ham developer, that that's kind of a semi typical piece of equipment that you might have in a home gym. If you can do any sort of those hip extension, back extension type variations, that will also give you a really solid glute and ham stimulus there as well. So now you've got six exercises, three for quads and three for hams that, you know, should be really solid to get you some good gains.

Philip Pape  43:36

Those are good. And to clarify what I meant developer, it's literally just an attachment on a incline bench to do leg curls, leg extensions. Okay, which day, which is kind of chintzy because like you have to literally stack the whole thing to get to the load you want. And it's wobbly, you know, but um, I really miss the GHDs at the CrossFit gym. That's one thing that they had loads of, yeah,

Bryan Boorstein  43:58

you know, another cheap piece of home equipment that I would just encourage most people to buy if they're at home is a 45 degree hip extension. And, like, if you go on Amazon, there's models for anywhere between 102 $100 and you'll get a ton of use out of that. I mean, very, very effective. I used one for a number of years, just one of those cheap models. And just last year, I upgraded to a like really solid $500 Nicer hip extension 45 degree, but those 100 to $200 ones do the trick, and you'll get plenty of stimulus from those two.

Philip Pape  44:33

How does that compare to a 90 degree? What's what's the difference?

Bryan Boorstein  44:37

Yeah, so it's basically in where the movement is hardest. So when you're using the 90 degree like GHD, but the hardest point is going to be when your torso is horizontal to the ground. So the hardest point is going to be at the top of rep, and because of that, you're going to lose a bunch of tension at the bottom. So when you're hanging off at the at the stretched position where all the muscle is lengthened. You're just not going to get a significant stretch when you're in one Another 90 degree ones. But when you're in the 45 degree, the hardest point of the movement is actually again, where your torso is parallel to the ground. And thus, the top of the movement is actually slightly easier. So it's more of a mid range overload. And you continue to get solid stretch in your hamstrings and glutes, even at the bottom of that rep. So in most cases, if people have the option, I would prefer to have them at the 45 degree.

Philip Pape  45:23

And then last thing, going back to quads if you have a landmine attachment, which is pretty simple thing to get. What do you think of trying to emulate Hack Squats there?

Bryan Boorstein  45:32

Yes, landmine Hack Squats are great. Most people have a problem once they get strong enough getting the bar up to their shoulder. So a couple hacks there is you can put a you can slide a bench, really close to the anchor point of the landmine and then prop the landmine up against the bench. And then that way, when you walk under it, it's basically already at shoulder height. So that works pretty well or rather not at shoulder height, because then you wouldn't be able to squat with it. But you basically go under it into the bottom of the squat and then stand up. So you kind of have to mess around with the where the bench is set. Another thing you can do is you can set your landmine to sorry, I just got a call, you can set your landmine up on a J clip. So that the so that you can just load it right there and then kind of take it off the J clip onto your shoulder from there.

Philip Pape  46:20

Yeah, make make sense that Yeah, I do mine on spotter arms. Same way, you know, to get it to work. Alright, cool, man. So we want to talk about cardio as well. Yoga. Yeah, sure. Okay. Yep. Cool. Yeah. Because I know listening to your show even your own thoughts on that have evolved a little bit over time. Let's let's just break it down. Right. Because when people, there's there's camps when it comes to cardio, and I don't think there should be like, I think cardio is great, to some extent. And it all depends on your priorities. And you've talked about this as well, depends on what your goals are. But there's a lot of misconceptions about the interference effect, losing gains, you know, how do you prioritize incorporate cardio, what's the point of cardio like all of those things, as well as fat loss versus when you're not in fat loss. So I know, I just threw a lot at you, but just I know, you can handle it. What are you know,

Bryan Boorstein  47:10

cart. So interference effect, I think is something that really has changed over time. And it was a number of studies, initially, maybe seven or eight years ago that made people scared of cardio, and I can't reference them specifically at this point. But they were showing that there was in fact, an interference effect. And then there were a series of studies. More recently, in the last, I want to say three years, four years. And they demonstrated that if the programming is done in such a manner where you have a Priority A and a Priority B and one of them is I want to say taking closer to failure. But like you wouldn't take cardio to failure, it's just this idea of one you're working harder on and one you're working not as hard on, they actually can be really helpful to each other. And in fact, now it seems like it's even gone further. And you have this, this view of the bodybuilder athlete that is so under recovered and are not under recovered, but under conditioned, that they're having to rest excessively between sets. And it's not just that they're doing less volume because of this excessive rest that they need to take. But it's then bleeding over into their body's inability to get parasympathetic after the workout. So they're finishing their workout, and they're so out of shape cardiovascularly that their body stays in this heightened sympathetic nervous system state for not just hours, but days like affects you while you're sleeping. The next day, your body is literally not recovering fast enough between weightlifting sessions, because your cardiovascular fitness is so poor. And so it seems intuitively that if you're able to increase your cardiovascular fitness, at least to like a decent base level, that this then improves your recovery adaptations allows you to do more volume in the gym, and thus, you know, elicit better gains across the board.

Philip Pape  49:03

Now that that is interesting, I have to admit I hadn't heard I don't know you talk about it. I just had it didn't sink in. You know, I listened to the podcast, a million podcasts and for some reason, that exact issue of the parasympathetic nervous system and recovery. Now I'm really interested and I'm interested for selfish purposes as well because I used to be in CrossFit like I said, high vo two Max super conditioned and I've done I do way less cardio today than back then. And I work from home. So like you know, there's no excuses. I'm just saying that that's the state of things right now. First of all, how do you measure that fitness level? So that you know what you need to incorporate? Like what are the objective measures whether it's vo two max or HRV or whatever else? And then what is kind of a reasonable you know, you've got life you've got so much time you still want to be training for five, six days a week, amount of cardio to fit in to get past that threshold. Yeah,

Bryan Boorstein  49:52

I'm not so convinced that vo two max is the best variable to use because you're never actually going to Your vo two max or needing your VO two max to recover between sets or even to get parasympathetic after sessions. I think the better metric is zone two, which I think that we can use as a general viewpoint of functioning of your mitochondria. And your mitochondria are the little things, your energy cells that are working on repairing reproduction all the time, like they're always in the background, just typing away, you know, writing new code for your body. And so what I tend to use with people and with myself is the amount of watts per kilo that you can generate while keeping your heart rate in zone two. And so zone two very generally, is going to be peaked like the high end of Zone Two for most people will be 180 minus your age. And that's very, very general, I usually start people at 180 Minus fifth minus their age plus 10. And then have them work up to 180 minus the age, but I'll generally have them work. So I'm 41, we'll just say I'm 40. For easy math. 180 minus 40 is 140. So that's the top of my zone two. So I tried to do my zone to between 130 and 140 beats a minute. If I'm above 140, I feel like I'm getting into zone three. If I'm below 130, I feel like it's pretty easy sledding, and I'm probably in the high end of zone one. And so I tried to do my zone to work in that range. And then I look at what are the watts per kilo that I'm able to generate during that exercise. Now, most people may not have access to watts, that's something you would have on an exercise bike or on a rower or something like that. So essentially, there are other metrics you can use, but you just want to see the output that you have improved over time, while your heart rate stays consistent. So if I could say generate 1.5 watts per kilo, when I started, this is actually my story. My peak, zone two was 1.5 watts per kilo that was like right at the high end, I was like pushing the boundary. So I weighed 90 kilos, I could do 135 Watts, and that was my zone to now, a year and a half later, maybe almost two years, I am up to two watts per kilo. So I'm doing about 180 to 190 watts. And my heart rate is still in the same range, right in that 130 to 140. So I've essentially improved by 33%, or something along those lines. And I've noticed along that same trend, significant improvements in recovery time, sleep quality, HRV resting heart rate, general sense of well being energy throughout the day, ability to focus, all of these kinds of subjective metrics that we feel on a day to day basis have improved as my zone two has improved. Got

Philip Pape  53:01

it? Okay, so no, you are you're actually I was not asking the right question. But you answered the question I was attending, which is how can you how can you measure it to see that the improvement is, you know, to go after the improvement during your activity? And then like you said, there are other measures after the fact like your HIV resting heart rate and so on that that are and biofeedback that are other indicators. Do you know if that the watts per kilo is it's not something we can measure on like a ring or watch, right? It's like one of those

Bryan Boorstein  53:26

show? No, no, but you know what, like, like, you just want to improve your n of one. And so if you have if you have a bike where you can monitor speed, like an indoor trainer bike, and it doesn't give you watts, some bikes do, but it gives you speed. And so you're like, okay, my zone too, right now is that 14.7 miles per hour, well, then you're just trying to increase from 14.7 miles per hour while keeping your heart rate consistent. So you just need to find some subject, something that's objective, some objective metric of performance that you can track on your preferred cardiovascular source modality. And then just try and look and see that go up over time. Perfect, man. Cool. Yeah.

Philip Pape  54:13

I know myself, I've been telling myself I do want to incorporate more cardio now especially get a head into a fat loss phase here after nine months of building which is, but but a lot of people ask this question all the time and my own clients, nutrition clients, it's like, no, we don't just want to walk but like, how much cardio do you do and how does it interfere or not? Now what about during fat loss when you know, recovery capacity is lower and intake is lower? How does that change if if at

Bryan Boorstein  54:41

all? Yeah, I mean, it definitely increases the interference. I mean, I so I do think that you, if if weight training or muscle mass or strength or any of those barbell pursuits, are of top priority to you, then you need to be very cognizant about where you put your cardio training. especially if it's more vo to max or interval style training, I generally consider zone to work to be somewhat cathartic, almost like a pseudo recovery modality. If you're pushing zone to work to the point that it's super fatiguing. I think you're doing it wrong, I think you're doing it too hard. So my general view is that if you're doing Zone Two, you should be able to put that more or less anywhere, although I would caution against putting it really, really close to leg training, certainly not like directly before leg training, but probably also not directly after leg training. But I think anytime like within a few hours, and having a meal in between should be fine or a separate day should be fine. Even like if your quads are sore, and you go do zone two, I don't think that's a problem. In many ways, it actually kind of helps flush some metabolites out of there and helps your recovery. So zone two, I don't think you need to be quite as specific with but any sort of interval work where your legs are really actually working against a resistance. That's not just fatiguing for your legs, it's fatiguing for your entire being like your whole body becomes fatigued, your mind comes to see there's psychological fatigue associated with it work. And that detracts from your ability to focus and put primary energy into your leg training. And then the same would apply if your cardio modality is something that works the upper body, like if you're rowing or you're doing the ski ERG or you're doing one of these other upper body dominant, not dominant, but where the upper body is a large part of the cardiovascular experience, you probably should be cognizant of that as well. Like, I probably wouldn't go row rowing intervals and then go do a back workout or something along those lines. So So yeah, I mean, there's a few things you need to be cognizant of. And then I didn't actually address one of your questions, which was what's the dose that you need to do for this? And so it's very gold dependent. You know, Peter Attia? Are you familiar with him? Oh, yeah, sure. Yeah. He often talks about for health and longevity, having for zone two sessions and one like zone four zone five hit type session each week. And I think that that's kind of a high end for people whose top priority is something involved with weightlifting. I think that's great. If your goal is longevity and wanting to live the longest, healthiest life that you can, that's that's where I tend to fall these days, I've sort of gradually moved away from optimizing physique and more to optimizing, longevity and lifestyle. So I do try to hit what Peter at TSS most weeks, I think for somebody that is really trying to prioritize physiques or, or strength sport, that getting to zone two sessions is a bare minimum, and maybe one hit zone five type session. So you'd have three cardio sessions a week at that point. Cool. Yeah,

Philip Pape  58:01

I like that. All right. Cool, man. I know, we're almost out of time here. Do you have time for like one or two more questions? Sure. Yeah, go for cool. Because you did want to talk specialization briefly. And where I was going with this is a lot of folks are running, we'll call it a template program or a standard program, or even if they have a custom program, and they're just not happy with a certain part of their physique. For guys, maybe it's biceps, right, it might be back might be shoulders, what's kind of a basic specialization approach in terms of like, adding on to your program or supplanting the existing part of your training, just to accelerate a specific body part? Sure,

Bryan Boorstein  58:39

because it's kind of becomes a runaway train at that point. So what we're what I'm actually doing, Jeff hain, who is our mutual friend, he's a client of mine, I'm working one on one with Him. And so he and I have been in deep nerdy talks as we do, about how to optimize physique. And over the last couple of years, the data driven guys have been doing a lot of, and I don't want to say it's research because I don't think there are specific research studies on the topic, but intuitive analysis of, of the topic. And they've kind of ascertain this idea, that rotating specialization cycles where you dial up volume for two or maybe three muscle groups, and then dial down volume for the other five or six muscle groups would be an extremely effective way of going about this. Because we know through research that maintenance volume or the amount of volume you need to maintain gains is so low like literally studies have shown it could be as low as 30% of what it takes to get there. So say it took you 15 sets to grow your legs, you might be able to maintain your legs on five sets. So if we harness that knowledge, and we say okay, well if volume is going to help us grow more and we know we can maintain on less volume, we can jack up the volume on a few muscle group groups, pull down the volume on the remaining muscle groups and do this in kind of a cyclical manner where we spend two to four months on a few different muscle groups, and then switch the rotation, spend two to four months on some different muscle groups, et cetera, et cetera, just kind of roll through like that. And so that's been the way that Jeff and I have been approaching it. Now for a number of months, we've done a lats and triceps specialization. We're currently in a chest, biceps and lateral delts specialization. And we'll probably just continue rolling through these every few months and following those parameters. And then so in that same vein, there's a number of different levers, you can pull, we talked about volume as one, but you can prioritize proximity to failure. So you could take some movements and work them closer to failure and other movements further from failure, you could prioritize exercise order. So you could have some exercises at the beginning of the workout and others at the end. And that's one of the things we're actually using right now with Jeff is, it almost seems taboo to put bicep work before back work. But because back work is no longer a priority for us. That is literally what one of our days looks like we have three bicep movements, then we have a lateral delt movement, I think, or something a tricep movement, and then we have a back movement. So back is literally like the last thing you're working. Whereas in most cases, you would always put back first and then finish with biceps. So you can prioritize exercise order, you can do volume, you can use frequency. So you could train muscle groups more often and put other muscle groups less often. So there's a number of kind of these different levers that you can pull, and just need to figure out kind of how you want to set it up and manipulate it. Yeah,

Philip Pape  1:01:43

that makes a lot of sense, right? Especially the exercise order. People don't often think of that they always think, Oh, do the big lift first or, you know, like, don't write, you don't want to pre exhaust this, but like you said, well, doesn't matter because this is our priority. And also the point that that maintenance doesn't take nearly as much. It's just like when we're in a fat loss phase. And we have to get reframed the mindset that you're not actually going to build new muscle, but you're going to maintain and guess what, it takes a lot less volume. So now you're trying to maximize recovery. Take advantage of that right for a while. Really, Colin? All right. I could talk with you for hours. I mean, it's why I love your show, you know, listening to just all these topics, and I knew I would learn a lot. And I'm hoping the listener learned a ton as well. Is there anything you wish I had asked? that I didn't cover today?

Bryan Boorstein  1:02:24

Yeah, you know, I knew this question was coming in. And I honestly think that we had a really great conversation. There isn't exactly anything that I think you'd ask. I feel like, you know, if we want to come back on we can. One topic that I think is been really interesting, and I've received a lot of questions about recently has been from new dads, and how they would change their training as a result of having a newborn or having a really busy schedule with kids sports practices, or like any other number of things that come along with, you know, being a dad and being busy and having kids and trying to balance everything. So maybe a topic for the next time we get to chat.

Philip Pape  1:03:02

I love it, man you are already inviting yourself on which is good, because I would have done it myself. No, no, that's good. And give me a topic too. So love it. All right, well, where do you want people to find out more about you and your work? Yeah, so

Bryan Boorstein  1:03:16

primarily, you can just find me on Instagram at Brian Borstein. Like you said in the intro, I have two group trading programs. Evolved training systems is kind of my original one. But I don't put a whole ton of time and effort into it at this point. It's more of like I call it my science lab because it's a much smaller population compared to my other programming group, which has Paragon training methods. And so evolved is cool because I get to kind of do what I want. I don't have a business partner. And the programming is what I want it to be. I can get really kind of intimate feedback from the members who have been there with me for a while. And then Paragon is my other larger company we have 15 different programs at this point, we have a full gym, a home gym, and a dumbbell only program for five day four day or three day programming. So literally whatever your equipment is, and whatever your desired training time per week is we have a program for you we have a great community with tons of coaches in the group to kind of help answer questions for you do form checks and and stuff like that. So awesome,

Philip Pape  1:04:19

man. Yeah, definitely include that in there and everyone listening I mean Brian, Brian knows a ton about this, definitely check out the podcast E train prosper as well. And um, check out his stuff because it's you're gonna learn, you know, 1010 things every time you're exposed to some of his content. So keep it up, man. This was a pleasure. It was awesome to have you on I appreciate the conversation today.

Bryan Boorstein  1:04:38

Yeah, I appreciate you having me. Thank you.

Philip Pape  1:04:42

Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights. Please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then stay strong

Ep 144: How to Overcome Yo-Yo Dieting and a Toxic Body Image to Build Your Fittest Physique Ever

How do you overcome the demons of yo-yo dieting and negative body image? How can strength training be a gateway to a better physique and mindset?

Today, Philip (@witsandweights) sits down with Isis Alvarado, a long-time member of the Wits & Weights community and a fitness and health enthusiast with a 15-year journey marked by personal struggles and triumphs, which is exactly what they talk about today.

Isis isn’t just a fitness enthusiast;  she’s a warrior who has battled and triumphed over yo-yo dieting and negative body image. As an adult, she broke free from the chains of restrictive eating, discovering the world of strength training and evidence-based nutrition. This wasn’t just a physical transformation but a mental and emotional one. Her story is about resilience, solid information, and transformative impact. 

In their conversation today, you’re not just going to hear another transformation story. You’re going to learn the real, tangible strategies that Isis used to overhaul their relationship with food and their body. You’ll discover how strength training can be a gateway to a better physique and mindset. Most importantly, you’ll learn how to apply these lessons in your own life, breaking free from the myths and misconceptions that hold you back in your fitness journey.

Today, you’ll learn all about:

2:57 Childhood environment and its impact on health and body image
5:42 Experiences with yo-yo dieting and beliefs about genetics
7:52 Early adulthood decision to stop dieting and relationship with food
15:32 Catalyst for shifting to strength training and changing fitness approaches
19:03 How the right information led to significant results in less time         
28:44 Influence of strength training on physical, mental, and emotional well-being
34:46 Shifting food relationship from restriction to flexibility
40:24 Strategies for finding reliable, evidence-based fitness information
50:57 Impact of fitness journey on personal relationships, career, and goals
53:54 Practical advice for listeners starting their health journey
57:56 Future goals in fitness, health, and helping others
1:00:47 What question did Isis wish Philip had asked
1:04:19 How to connect with Isis
1:05:36 Outro

Episode resources:

• Join the Wits & Weights Facebook group (where you can also connect with Isis Alvarado!)

• Ep 141: Why I’m Getting Fluffy Before I Get Jacked

Episode summary:

Embarking on a fitness journey can be a transformative experience, not just for the body but for the mind and spirit as well. This is the central theme of the podcast episode featuring Isis Alvarado, whose tale of resilience, strength, and joy is nothing short of inspiring. Throughout the episode, listeners are treated to an in-depth look at the many facets of sustainable fitness and health, debunking common myths and exploring evidence-based strategies for lasting change.

The conversation begins by exploring Isis's early challenges with weight and the negative impact of diet culture. Growing up in a family where weight issues were prevalent, Isis was introduced to dieting at a very young age. This early exposure to the dieting mindset had a lasting effect on her relationship with food and her self-image. As we delve into this part of her story, it's evident how societal pressures and family influences can shape our health narratives from a young age.

Transitioning into the topic of weight loss misconceptions, the podcast takes a critical look at the misunderstandings surrounding genetics, metabolism, and the often underestimated caloric content of snacks. This discussion sheds light on the complexities of managing weight and emphasizes the need for a balanced approach to nutrition. The conversation also touches upon the emotional and psychological impact of restrictive dieting, revealing the turmoil caused by labeling foods as 'good' or 'bad.'

The transformative power of exercise and a shift in mindset come into focus as Isis shares her journey from grueling workout programs to the discovery of weightlifting. This chapter of the episode highlights how finding joy in exercise can change one's approach to fitness and overall well-being. The podcast also celebrates a listener's success story, which echoes the importance of a strategic and informed approach to fitness, showing how knowledge and proper planning can lead to more effective and enjoyable workouts.

Community support plays a crucial role in any transformation, and the podcast emphasizes this through a discussion on the motivating and supportive online space created for listeners. The sense of belonging and the ability to share experiences with others on similar paths provide a valuable source of encouragement. This sense of community is further enhanced by the podcast's focus on the empowering effects of strength training, not only for the body but also for mental clarity and self-perception.

The latter part of the episode delves into the mental and physical challenges of entering a gaining phase, an often-overlooked aspect of fitness. This transition requires a different mindset and approach, highlighting the importance of setting realistic goals and trusting the process. As Isis discusses her experiences and the changes in her mentality, the conversation becomes a testament to the value of embracing the journey and focusing on long-term goals rather than quick fixes.

Navigating through the overwhelming amount of information and misinformation in the fitness world is another significant theme of the episode. The podcast encourages listeners to be open to accurate information and to share helpful resources, emphasizing the readiness to act on evidence-based strategies. This discussion is crucial for anyone trying to sift through the conflicting advice that often circulates in the health and fitness industry.

The episode concludes with a powerful message about the comprehensive benefits of consistent and sustainable fitness habits. It's a reminder that transformation is possible at any age and that the journey towards better health is ongoing. The final words of the episode express gratitude for the insights shared and the impact they have had on listeners' lives, encouraging everyone to continue on their path to self-improvement.

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Transcript

Isis Alvarado  00:00

For me now I'm trying to embrace the fact that it's just the journey that I'm enjoying and that is just bringing me closer to everything that I always dreamed I could never have.

Philip Pape  00:13

Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in. Wits & Weights community Welcome to another episode of the Wits & Weights Podcast. Today I am thrilled to sit down with ISIS Alvarado, a longtime member of the Wits & Weights community and a fitness and health enthusiast with a 15 year journey marked by personal struggles and triumphs, which is exactly what we're going to talk about today. ISIS isn't just a fitness enthusiast, she's a warrior. She's battled and triumph over the all too common demons of yo yo dieting, and negative body image. Her journey began in a family where weight struggles were the norm, leading her to her first diet at the age of 10. This early challenge set the stage for a life altering journey through the highs and lows of self identity, health and well being. But here's where the usual trajectory was turned on its head because as an adult, ISIS broke free from the chains of restrictive eating, discovering the world of strength training, and evidence based nutrition. This wasn't just a physical transformation, though. It was mental and emotional. And her story is about the power of resilience, the importance of having solid information rather than misinformation, and the transformative impact of a balanced and sustainable approach to fitness and nutrition. In our conversation today, you're not just going to hear another transformation story, you're going to learn the real tangible strategies that ISIS used to overhaul her relationship with food and her body, you'll discover how strength training can be a gateway to not just a better physique, but a better mindset. And most importantly, you'll find out how to apply these lessons in your own life breaking free from the myths and misconceptions that hold so many back in their fitness journeys. ISIS. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Isis Alvarado  02:18

Thank you for having me here. I'm very happy to be here.

Philip Pape  02:22

Yeah, I'm so excited to have you on. Because you you've got an incredible story to tell. You've also been very engaged with our community and have a very bright positive spirit, which is appeals to me for sure. And I'm sure our listeners. So let's go way back in the time machine to your childhood, because that's where your early self identity was shaped right? That you told me that you quote came from a family where most were overweight. And even in my home where we would eat healthy homemade food all the time. My mom was overweight. And I consider myself overweight too, even though it probably wasn't. So how can you share what it was like growing up in an environment where, you know, weight struggles are prevalent? And that how that shapes your early perceptions of health and body image?

Isis Alvarado  03:08

Well, yeah, ever since I can't remember. I remember hearing my mom and my aunt talking about diet, about that diet that made them lose like 10 kilos ate with that doctor, you know, like so it was like kind of romanticizing this diet culture, losing weight, and they will see it as you know, like this, for example, this diet that it was the Atkins diet, something like the keto diet. So they, they always thought about it, about how successful it was they lost 10 kilos, but they would never say that actually, they gained more than that way. So it was not as though they weren't caught up in this vortex of dieting, losing weight, and then getting it all again. So I grew up here in this. And when I was about 10 I did my first diet with the full support of my family, of course, and I was praying for losing weight. And even I remember doing one diet when I was like maybe 11 years old, not even tall, which was almost not a thing. It was called the cabbage soup diet. So yeah, yeah, you're supposed to lose like four or five kilos in a week because they weren't eating anything was your soaps, they were surviving on 500 calories a day or something. Course. I did that diet for three days.

Philip Pape  04:28

Yeah, and then you gave up

Isis Alvarado  04:30

right away, right? We'll add up all my life. That was my mindset, you know, like you need to diet to lose weight. But at the same time, it was normal to never be successful like to always lose diet and like lose weight and then gain it back again. Because it was not seeing us as a lifestyle, you know, a sustainable lifestyle but at something you had to know a goal to reach and then what happens like we don't care you just lose the weight and hope Fully pray that it was the body that would never have.

Philip Pape  05:04

I mean, your story is so relatable to probably everybody, everybody listening to this and myself included have been somewhere in our past where we lost weight getting back lost again and back. And just the very idea of what it means to lose weight. First of all, losing weight being the goal, like why is that the goal, we just have been trained to be that that's the goal for some reason, even though we're never happy when we do that. Secondly, how we lose weight, and then it never, we can never maintain it. So it's like this on off switch. And then the kind of I got a little sense of disgust almost when you said you you did a diet at the age of 10. Because that I don't know how common that is for listeners. But I know women especially have a lot of struggles in their childhood with an attention on weight from their parents reflect on that now knowing that that happened, like do you know a lot of people who've been through a similar situation where they were officially dieting at the at that young age? Yeah,

Isis Alvarado  06:00

for sure. Yeah, I come from a country where you know, like, the standards are very unattainable. I come from Venezuela. And like, that, even the people, like men who compete on the men's beauty patients, they already look amazing, and they make them lose more weight. There is this, this idea of beauty that is unattainable. So yes, like, with all my girlfriends, we always talk about diet, even at this age. And at that time, it was pretty much normal. Like no, like, if you say to your parents, I wanna lose weight, I want to go on a diet, they are like, happy for you. Like why not that that's what they thought it was? Good. You know. So, like, reflecting on that. It's, it's actually, for me, like, the biggest damage that it did for me, was the toxic relationship with food that I started developing from that age, because I would say, food as something that will make me be fat, you know. So creating that mindset that you need to eat as little as possible to as much as exercise as possible, in order to look a certain way, until I made that decision that I'm not going to diet anymore. I'm gonna work out because I want to be healthy. I want to live a long life. But I'm not going to restrict myself anymore. So I'd be you know, Chelsea forever.

Philip Pape  07:28

Yeah, yeah. No, I hear you that and you're right, just the very image of certain foods like bread or potatoes. in some people's minds. It's like that equals fat. And, you know, I have clients all the time where I say, Well, have you eaten potatoes? Like, that's a great option for satiety during fat loss. And like, Yeah, well, that's carbs, and, um, and fat loss, and you seem to eat potatoes, like, we just have these links to food. So alright, so then let's fast forward a little bit. Because then in your teenage and college years, you said, that's when you started this yo yo dieting, right? This, lose weight, regain weight, lose weight, regain weight. And you said that you believe being fat was in your genes. And the only way we mean like genetics, right. And the only way to keep away from that was through a lot of food restriction and exercise. A lot of listeners definitely believe, or I'm sure they think that their genetics are sort of hardwired and they're everything. And they're restricting food, and they're doing lots of exercise, especially cardio. So tell us about your life at that time.

Isis Alvarado  08:27

Well, I did believe it was in my genes, because when my aunts were, you know, overweight, even my mom. And as I said, my family in my family, wait, very healthy, we rarely out, etc. But then I realized, you know, my mom was, you know, I call the time snacking and stuff. And that adds up, you know, so she was actually it was not on the genes. Then at some point, I started the thing that I damaged my metabolism forever. And that was worth the work. I did so many diets that now it may I grow it. But now,

Philip Pape  09:03

yeah, hold on, hold on. You said hold on. You said something very interesting about your mom how you thought so you saw her as overweight, but you thought she was dieting, but she was really just sneaking the food in and so she was just over consuming food. I think that's important, right? Like we all we all lie to ourselves in that way many, many times that we just don't know how much we're eating. Yeah, exactly.

Isis Alvarado  09:21

And it's something that I discovered after I started tracking food that, you know, something that things like that harmless little snack, it's actually 500 600 calories. And if you're already in your calories that your body should be eating with your three meals. And actually, that's that's a lot. You know, like if you do two or three times a week, which is very often, you know, some people they snack, like all the time and some people they never do like my dad, he will never snack. But my mom yeah, she's in the kitchen and she's always you know, like, eating here and there. So of course, now that I realize is that yeah, I mean, she He went overweight because he was eating more calories. And was he was burned? Is not that, you know?

Philip Pape  10:05

And then that leads to, well, now I'm overweight and I got to go on a diet, right? I have to just like cut all this weight as fast as possible to get back to some magic number. Yeah,

Isis Alvarado  10:14

exactly. And that made me believe that it wasn't possible for me to be lean, because it was in my genes, I would always say that even you know, eating, I was getting fat from air, you know, but the truth is that I was, I was restricting myself most of my life, you know, like, on and off, because when you restrict yourself, then you have periods in which you restrict yourself to become Feel free. And, you know, the thing is that I was just making my metabolism slower. And at that time, and that's something I started also to understand with the macro factor and thinking your, and nature going up and down. And I realized, of course, I was just my body is just a perfectly good, functioning body that was adapting to the little calories I was given. And I should actually be thankful for that. Because my body was very good to adapt to that. And you know, I love not your new thing, or the way my body was just that acne, like you're eating less now you'll find some with that. Yeah,

Philip Pape  11:18

yeah. And that's another great point for folks listening is that you could be even if you're not losing weight, you could be in this perpetual low energy state where you're eating less than your body needs, but not so little that you're going to lose much weight. And now you're just under fed your metabolisms lower. And you think that you have to eat way less calories than you do for losing weight, or whatever it is. So yeah, all these revelations are important. But let's continue the let's continue getting close to the present. Because I want to, I want to understand the experiences you went through because in early adulthood, you said that you promised yourself you were never going to dye it again. Because you love food and the restrictions that you thought you needed to be lean, were just too much to happily handle. And you started to exercise intensely and regularly and eat quote unquote super healthy, right? Lots of veggies, restricting carbs, having a huge list of foods you love but shouldn't eat because they make you fat. And you thought you could never be lean because it would take too much effort and you couldn't sustain it. So again, clean eating, cutting out carbs and you know foods is good and bad. Just this is your relationship with food at the time, right? Still, not the healthiest.

Isis Alvarado  12:25

Not not that not healthy at all. It was a very unhealthy actually not only for my body, but also mostly for my mind and you're always it's not just it's not only that you end up binging on food more often than not it's also the impact of those changes in your emotions you know, like in your in your mind you know, you feel like you're a failure you feel that you're never gonna be able to do it you know why I can control myself always be like, what's going on? Like? I do very well in other almost all areas in life and Letson mess with food

Philip Pape  13:07

Yeah, falling out quote unquote falling off the wagon all the time right or whatever labels we use.

Isis Alvarado  13:11

Yeah, it made me feel like out of control which I never found in any other areas in my life. It manifests are out of control. So powerless, so frustrated Yeah. So it was all this emotion that he was creating. Not only like the extra calories that I was consuming, because my body was trying to compensate but always okay, it was in my mind,

Philip Pape  13:35

chaos in your mind. And what did the exercise look like? Then you said you were exercising intensity? This is before you got into lifting? What did it Yeah,

Isis Alvarado  13:42

what I was at the end when I start to hate doing 3040 50 minutes of heat, but I went through almost everything I could find and I was just I wanted this one called insanity probably heard about it. Oh, yeah, sure. All for a left off was

Philip Pape  14:02

I was hoping it was a Beachbody one of those programs

Isis Alvarado  14:05

Yeah, it was dance for like hour already. The warmup was like giving me exhausted and I'm not. Wait, am I doing like that? So yeah, I then so

Philip Pape  14:17

it wasn't fun was it probably wasn't fun, either. No,

Isis Alvarado  14:20

I was not enjoying it. I was. And I actually I ended up like, taking to hate for the longest because it was short intervals of time. So I know in my mind, it was nice. 30 seconds you can do 30 seconds. Right? I think so it would feel easier. It will feel more manageable. You know, but I never really enjoyed it. I did and I felt very well afterwards. And I could see that you know, able to help my body somehow I never looked like really fit but I will say that it looks so

Philip Pape  14:57

nice as I can. I mean doing CrossFit for a year. I can relate to that were like, because people have asked me that, well, where are you in shape? And I said, Well, conditioning was there, like you had pretty good heart health probably. Yeah. And and you burned a lot of calories, kind of, but your body probably compensated a little bit as well. But it's because you're just working so much and putting all this intense work in. And we're not saying hits bad, right? Like even as a lifter, a few hit sessions can can be a great thing if you, especially if you can make them enjoyable, but that was your only mode of exercise, which sounds like torture. Okay, so now let's get to the fun stuff we come to like about a year and a half ago, you started lifting,

Isis Alvarado  15:36

right is that about a year and a half? A year? Less than a year and a half a year?

Philip Pape  15:40

Okay. Yeah. And you said that there was a significant shift in your approach to health and fitness. Now, as an adult, you're in less than a year and a half ago? What was the catalyst? What was the thing that led you to break away from the cycle of the eating stuff, you know, restrictive eating, and you're you're dieting, but also the training.

Isis Alvarado  15:57

So first, it started with the training, I was doing it at home, I had worked some you know, after the pandemic, I ended up buying a few things here and there. And then I, I met this friend who was a personal trainer, and she had been training all her life. And she told me, let's work out together a couple of days a week. And I was happy to because I never had friends who wanted to work with me. On the contrary, and not like I had to back them. And so I started working with her at the gym, and we were weightlifting, because that's what she was doing. And I started I realized I actually liked it. Way more than any other kind of exercise I actually liked. You know, Korean liked it. So I started weightlifting with her. But we were just William follow any strategy, we were just there. And she's like, we're just conditioning and now like, in next few months, we'll start with a strategy but I think she really didn't want to get there because he's been doing that all her life. And now she's on her lazy years.

Philip Pape  17:00

Oh, she's just maintaining, so it was more of exercise, not training, we had to actually

Isis Alvarado  17:05

see what it's like so eager to for me to join her because she was not able to bring to the team. Okay, an example activation for so I started and I liked it. So I started to read more about weightlifting, I you know, that's when I discovered your podcast and all and I started, I started to realize that, okay, first I need a strategy. I cannot just go there, to the machines, I can actually I was doing more than what I'm doing now. I was doing seven, eight exercises, you know, like, each time and like pushing very hard, but at the same time not tracking anything. So it was depending on how I was feeling that thing. So I started to realize, okay, I need a strategy. Then also, I became again, open minded to taking care of my nutrition in with an objective in mind with that strategy as well. And I have found the calories before here and there, but I didn't really see. I mean, I didn't know how many calories I had three, you do these calculations online, but they don't work for you. I mean, regulations I read online, were not correct after you know, using manufacturing for a while, so I didn't really see resource. So eventually, I match this together and say now I'm gonna try I started studying and listening to podcasts rather beginning taking notes. And I started doing progressive overload. I designed like I didn't design I took it from different sources, my workouts, I started, I bought macro factor started to follow another calories, they told me and in like maybe four months, I've seen more change that I have ever seen before in my life. And the AFR has been like a fraction of what I actually what I usually have to do to see any kind of changes in my body.

Philip Pape  19:03

Okay, okay, okay. I'm beaming right now ISIS, okay, I have to interject, I'm beaming. Because this is like, what I wish everyone who listened to the show would do is exactly what you're doing is you took action, and you started me took notes, which I love. You've been to the show, and hopefully got a few nuggets, which makes makes me really very proud. And I still am surprised when I hear people say that, believe it or not, I still very surprised. We were like, Yeah, listen to your show. And it actually helped change my life. That that makes me feel great. But for you to say that it helped you get more control and do it in a way that felt like you weren't sacrificing anymore, and you're able to get progress. Like that's what that's what we want. That's what people want out of this journey for it to be a fun thing for it to be a productive thing that doesn't require all this, you know, guts and sweat and discipline and willpower. So I just congratulate you on like taking that action. You made it happen for yourself, but you took the information so, so thank you and I want to applaud you for that.

Isis Alvarado  19:59

Thank you. And now I wanted to find any also to tell you how grateful I am with everything that you share. And like, You're very generous with your time and the the information, also getting people together, I usually don't belong to any online communities. And if I do, I'm just there like knocking on the desk. And you'll have created that space in which I feel also inspired and motivated to share my experiences with other people, you know, like I do have some kind of virtual long distance connection with other people who are going through the same journey, as we all are.

Philip Pape  20:44

That's beautiful ISIS, and I've heard that from a lot of people. And I agree, like in the sense that I'm also in a lot of Facebook groups, and some of them are not very active, or it's just a different fields, a different culture. And having come from, like the world of CrossFit, I was very much missing the community aspect of that, because I work from home, but also with the podcast, knowing that people would reach out and say, Hey, I listen to this. And it helped me out. I'm like, Well, how can we get more and more people who do that who listen to the show, to kind of interact with each other? Because every day we see people come in, who are where you were, like two years ago, or five years ago, they come in, and you can see their questions are like very basic questions, that I'm always surprised that they don't know the answer to but we've all been there. And so our community just said, hey, at any dive in with a very positive attitude, you you'll chime in and somebody who's, you know, an expert lifter will chime in, or whatever the answer is, to improve all of these things. So yeah, I'm glad you said that. And I want to go back to you ISIS with the the recent transformation, you said, because it's, you said you had all this chaos in your mind before, right? Yeah. What it what is your mental state now? Like, how has it changed, and what specific strategies allowed that to change?

Isis Alvarado  22:00

Well, I, you know, and I have self diagnosing, diagnosed myself with that I have a toxic relationship with food, and that I am an emotional eater, et cetera, et cetera. But then also, I realized that man, the biggest trigger for me, was my food restriction, I never worth an emotional eater in INR, I was going through some trauma, or bullying or wherever it takes no, my own my, my relationship with foods started, like the toxicity of it started by restricting the food by restricting the quantity and by restricting the diversity of food I could eat and by relating eating certain foods, so being fat, which is something I never wanted to be, and now that I'm eating more, like, I feel always, I never feel hungry, that I'm eating a lot of carbs. And that I'm eating probably more protein that I never I had never eaten before. It that the desire to be in shape, almost never there, that for once and for like, the other thing is that I also wanted to thank you for it, you talked so much about the sustainability, that it finally made a weight inside of my mind. And for example, when I would bench I would just try to compensate. And the next two, three days, do it at least as little as possible to balance that out. Right. At some point, I you know, I realized that this is not sustainable. You know, like, one day, you just fall off the wagon, which happens to absolutely everyone, even with people who are not, who don't have any younger, unhealthy relationship with food, you'll hear them talking about how they finished the bag of Doritos or whatever, you know, and you am here punishing myself because I did that. Instead of just, it's okay, I ate 1000 calories extra. So what you're not like, maybe if I'm trying to lose weight, it's just gonna, you know, it's gonna delay slow you down a tiny bit. Yeah, and there is no end goal anymore. You know, like, it's just, it's, this is just a process for me. So it's not like before, when with this diet mentality, I want to lose, thank you. And that was the end goal, you know, now is like, I'm just trying to make myself stronger. And hopefully, that will also shed the extra fat. And, you know, just, it's more like a vague goal, like the call is actually in the process to follow this process in a way that is sustainable for my body and for my mind. So is this content I can contact constant mentioning of Sustainability also shifted something in my relationship with food in my binges, you know, like, now if I do, it is very, like rare is just an isolated event before I would bench and then I would try to restrict myself in the next two or three days to compensate the calories. So then I would end up painting again one day or two days later. So it would be always like three, four in a week. Instead of use one, just take it you know, because also, when you see that, you know, black and white, this is bad, I did something wrong. It also brings, you know, the guilt, the feeling of not being enough, but like what's wrong with me. So that makes you self sabotage again. So it all, you know, like all this process has also helped me a lot, mentally and emotionally in my relationship with food. I'm starting to see things with a completely different field. And I don't like now when the last time I didn't, it was the day that my period came. I just wanted to do like eight adventures. I was like, what just happened? Why? And then maybe you can say, Ah, okay, now exactly. It's that I don't and I don't feel bad about it. It's like, okay, whatever, you know, like, I just life goes on. I'm not gonna change anything. Absolutely. And

Philip Pape  26:28

I says you have such a level of self awareness. And you're right that like the buzzwords we use, like sustainability, I say it all the time. And I think it can be it can be overused when you don't explain what that means. And I think you did a really great job explaining different facets of what we mean by sustainability. So what you basically said was, overall, that I heard is, it's part of your life, it's part of your process. You don't think of it as dieting or not dieting, and you talked about the binge restrict cycle, you can't binge on a regular basis, if you're not also restricting on a regular basis to have that cycle. So if you're simply accepting that you can enjoy the foods you like, incorporate them, plan for them. Obviously, we don't want to eat to excess or do anything in excess. We don't want to do that. But your body won't feel great when you do that. Anyway. So incorporate the things you love. Like you said, You're not You're hardly ever hungry, right? And, and maybe you still get golf, golf a little bit here and there because of hormones, because it doesn't matter, you accept it, it's reality, and you move to the next day. You also said that the goal is in the process. I love that quote. He said it's just a process, the goal is in the process. And every day we can have goals, right? Whether it's training, or you know, hitting our macros or making sure that we are satisfied or non fitness related goals as well. I agree. That's how we make things sustainable is just going after those on a regular basis, and then pushing the comfort zone a little bit on the areas where we want to improve. Last thing you said was the no guilt from the black and white mentality. So again, same philosophy, same principle of just do things in moderation, right? Do things in a way that that you can live with sustainably, so you don't have that dieting mentality. And then finally, you mentioned getting stronger, which we all love here. Because if you have a goal to be athletic or strong, or you know, build muscle, it allows the food to support that. And then you're never really restricting. And of course, you can go through a fat loss phase. And you know, we talked about that all the time. Sometimes you do have to do a level of calorie restriction with it for a fat loss phase, but you're still not restricting the types of foods you eat. So thank you for kind of laying the whole masterclass out of sustainable sustainability, ISIS. So yeah, that was just a lot of commentary. So let me ask you another question. Because strength training was critical. And it still is critical to your transformation no more P 90 intensity workouts right. Now so how is it tell us about your training? What does it feel like? How has it transformed your your physique and your mindset? Is it because it's okay to want to have like a great looking body, you know, and I think you do it in a healthy way. So tell us about all that.

Isis Alvarado  29:09

So Well, as I said, I really enjoy my my training. I really love them. I always look forward to going to the gym. And I I didn't realize how much of an impact it has in my mindset until I had to stop for a couple of months, and then vomit and I was also going through some difficult times that were making it a little down. And the moment I went back to the gym, I did that first training after two months, I felt so empowered. You know before I was feeling like I was letting go is he does not bring me down but I was feeling like a little like a bit like a victim. I just did that and I don't know what it is in my brain. I feel like I feel normal again. You know, like I feel like myself again. So definitely that I enjoyed that I enjoy. Like when I'm training, I like the fact that it permits I can meditation, because I have to focus on one thing like Todd, which is like, you can do 10 reps or whatever how many reps I can do is like you can do it, my mind goes down where for a minute, like, for a millisecond, then as my strength goes way up, I think about like, whatever you're not like, I have to boom, it's also it's a mental exercise for me. And yeah, I really am planning my work as now, I plan in the way that I'm going to do the rest I'm going to it. I don't know, more or less. I don't know if that answers your question. It

Philip Pape  30:49

does. No, it appeals to me and the whole structure behind it. Because what you're saying is that, you know, just just so people are listening who may not be as familiar, we are talking about training, where you have a plan, you have sets, reps, movements, yeah, loads all planned out, and then executing on that. And there's a sense of empowerment and control, but I liked it you. You could compare what it was like to not train for a while after having trained and come back and realize, whoa, like I really want this in my life. Because it's just mentally invigorating. And you feel powerful and strong. And I I've seen I have never seen anyone who didn't feel that way, to some extent about strength training. Now, that's different from exercise and like randomly working out and all this high rep stuff and cardio that's different than what you're talking about. You said this is like a form of mindfulness. It's a process you focus, like, there's a common theme here. So you definitely answered the question. I want to inspire people that training can be more, it's more than just building muscle and getting strong. It's a lot of other things.

Isis Alvarado  31:49

Yeah. And actually, like, if you're lucky enough to do it, like to do it with a friend, which I was doing before. Hopefully, I go back to do it in a few months. With my friend, it's also time for socializing, I really enjoy that our friend time in our images that they just, you know, catch up on thing than the weekend or whatever. So if I like it, then you know, like, you have a lot of time for yourself now that I'm going to learn is like, a lot of me time. Okay, I have somebody says I will have to do some online shopping in between that.

Philip Pape  32:25

That's so true. Yeah. Yeah, I

Isis Alvarado  32:27

love it. I know they there is nothing I don't like about strength training. And yeah, it empowers me as well. And for sure, in my physique. I've never seen such a change in my life, even when I have lost like 20 pounds with a diet or something. I've never seen that change. Because actually, when you're used to losing weight without strength training, your body's just becoming smaller, but very slowly, right? So you get in the state in the mirror, maybe when you see a picture of how you were before you're like, oh my god, did I look like that? You know, like you realize you have changed. But with strength training now well, following of course, following a plan a strategy. So in like, three, four months, like now when I'm at the gym looking at, you know, the actual, like exercise, say like doing something and looking at myself in the mirror. I don't recognize my body. Yeah. Is that that's also that definition. So yeah, just yet change with strength training, because it's like, you are not only losing fat, you're building muscle. So you're like, becoming a little smaller, which is not very noticeable, maybe, but then muscle. It's not the Opsahl. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, it's actually very motivating. I mean, not that I need it to go to the gym because I'm lucky enough to understand to really love everything about it, but I get a few I'm not, you know, so much into it. Yeah, no, it's

Philip Pape  33:52

true. Yeah, I agree. And, I mean, I can see your delts and shoulders right here popping, you know, like on the screen. I mean, it's fun to have that physique even when you gain some weight.

34:03

Hi, my name is Lisa. And I'd like to give big shout out to my nutrition coach Philip pape, with his coaching I have lost 17 pounds, he helped me identify the reason that I wanted to lose weight and it's very simple longevity. I want to be healthy, active and independent until the day I die. He introduced me to this wonderful Apple macro factor I got that part of my nutrition figured out along with that is the movement part of nutrition, there's a plan to it and really helped me with that. The other thing he helped me with was knowing that I need to get a lot of steps in so the more steps you have, the higher your expenditure is and the easier it is to lose weight when it's presented to you like he presents it it makes even more sense. And the other thing that he had was a hunter guide and that really helped me so thank you below.

Philip Pape  34:46

So like I wanted to ask you about that. Have you gone through a dedicated gaining phase where you actually gained a little fat as well and and what was that like or have you not done that yet? That's the thing that started okay. Yeah, okay.

Isis Alvarado  34:58

Yeah, remember, I gone from this mentality that putting away these bad days has been like, a challenge for me. I just I was in that guard for like four months. And I decided, Okay, I think I'm ready to go into maintenance, which I'm, I'm now in maintenance a little above maintenance. And I'm still like, I mean, I'm very happy with all that I ate. Very exciting. But I'm still here. I'm like, mentally getting there to go into the gaming thing. I mean, it's gonna be scary for me, but I trust the process now. 100%

Philip Pape  35:33

good. Yeah, no. And I recently did that episode, right? Why I'm getting fluffy before I get jack. So hopefully it helps. That

Isis Alvarado  35:40

one that the one that inspired me to say, Okay, it's time, let's go, like, a month in losing weight is just gonna slow down my metabolism. And, you know, I already look alien enough. You know, before I when I started, it was like, very hard for me even though recommended also like to start, but my mind is still like, you know, reluctant to like if I see myself fluff in the mirror to it about my maintenance calories, but now it's like, Okay, enough. You're looking already, you know, fit enough. It's time to go into the gaining phase. Yeah, which is what I'm doing. I've been like two weeks in at maintenance. So I'm going to stay two more weeks, and then I'm going to increase a little bit more considerably the calories. So I can Okay, cool.

Philip Pape  36:27

Yeah. And if it's your first gaining phase ever, you're probably gonna go go after something like, point 2% A week or something like that, maybe maybe a couple pounds a month gain is what we're looking at, yeah,

Isis Alvarado  36:38

I got both pounds a month, that will be something I'm comfortable with. Exactly,

Philip Pape  36:42

yeah. And, you know, figure, if you did that for six months, that's anywhere from six to 12 pounds, but you're gonna gain, you know, six pounds of muscle or something like that, which is incredible, a credible amount of muscle that you're going to gain. And what I'll say is like, when you're at that phase, where you You're, you're kind of maybe not beginner anymore, but you're getting into intermediate phase, now, you still have the chance of somebody recomp along the way, where, you know, you may gain more muscle than you think you may not. And it's it's embracing the things that you can control and that are a measure of your success in that phase, which is not leanness. It's, it's your lifts, right? It's your muscle, it's even when you want to look in the mirror, it's like focusing on your biceps and your shoulders and things that can be defined even while you're gaining weight, and not focusing so much on your belly ears or other spots that may gain a little more fat. It's, you know, part of the process, you

Isis Alvarado  37:33

know, I'm still hoping that I can, you know, even if I go into client surplus, I will still keep losing weight. And by then,

Philip Pape  37:43

yeah, you may lose your fat while while gaining muscle, fiber

Isis Alvarado  37:46

and muscle because that they can enter my even though I started like lifting like a year and a bit ago, I actually started niche there with a strategy four months ago, or months ago. So I'm still a beginner. So I still gain a lot of muscle.

Philip Pape  38:05

You definitely can you definitely can. What are your thoughts, though, on if you do start to gain some fat? So for example, are you going to take body measurements like your waist circumference, biceps, things like that, so that, you know, whether it's muscle or fat?

Isis Alvarado  38:19

Well, now I'm trying to embrace the fact that, you know, it is a journey, and doesn't matter. And you know, like, you know, we all want this and this idea body, right? Focus on that, for me is now I'm trying to embrace the fact that it's just the journey that I'm enjoying, and that it's just bringing me closer to a physique that I always dreamed of. And I could never have. So of course, it's gonna, as I say, I have a lot of resistance to go into even maintenance. I was like, especially because it's so easy, that it's like I feel I could do, I could continue on account for months on end, because he didn't feel difficult for me. Right. Or to everything. You know, all I have done in my life before that. So it's it's an emotionally challenging, challenging for sure. But I'm willing to trust the process, because it has worked so far. For sure.

Philip Pape  39:19

And I can't wait to see your gains and see you get super stronger in that phase.

Isis Alvarado  39:24

They all said they want the right.

Philip Pape  39:29

Yeah, it's and it's funny because you say that it's going to be its own challenge, right? Because people always think of dieting and cutting and restricting as as a challenge, so to speak in the dieting mentality. But when you are gaining weight to gain muscle, it has its own challenges of doing that from a nutrition intake and carbs and performance perspective, which is kind of fun, right? Because it's the other problem of like, I gotta eat enough. And you maybe and you haven't experienced that yet. It sounds like but when you do it'll be another Yeah, it'll be nice. Yeah. I wouldn't say yes. Yeah, yeah. And it has its own, it'll teach you a lot of things. As far as like you'll, you'll learn about yourself even more about the meal timing and carbs and stuff like that. And if you start to fall behind macro factor will let you know, right? Because you'll start to flatline. Keep keep us up to date in the community as you do that, you know, post some screenshots and stuff, because we'd love to see that. So, all right, I wanted to ask about information and misinformation, because one of the things you mentioned was, you know, took all those years before you finally found like this podcast, and probably some others like it that you listen to now, how do people navigate through that today, knowing that there's so much junk on social media, there's just so many, the things that get all the attention are usually the extreme fringe ideas, or they're like the 1% of like cold baths and red light therapy, and like, all this stuff, that just doesn't matter versus the basics, how do people navigate through all that? How do you do it?

Isis Alvarado  40:59

I didn't know anything for a long time. I thought it wasn't easy, I thought it's not it can be easy. So this is something that, you know, like, actually goes against a lot of what I believed, you know, that I was not gonna be hungry, and I that I was gonna work out on these four days a week, you know, for a very short intervals of time. So it's, you don't really, I didn't really believe we could work until I decided to give it a try. And I think, you know, I still have many friends from my childhood from my college years, who are still struggling, like with weight issues. And they are like barely eating, exercising a lot. And even sometimes I try to tell them, it seems like they're not ready to late. And so I guess, when you are ready, the information will find you. And you will be open to receive it. Because even my friends can see that it's working for me. They just done. They they want to go on one hour, run it very little, etc. I'm like, Okay, I mean, I guess it's not about the information. It's about you being ready for that. Ready?

Philip Pape  42:18

Yeah. Oh, that's so good. Yeah, all the information

Isis Alvarado  42:20

in there. And maybe this information passed through my eyes a while ago, and I didn't need them. Because in my mind, my mindset at that time was thinking that that's not possible. At manatee, you know, like, eating that much. Just working out that little. Yeah.

Philip Pape  42:38

Oh, that you know that I just thought of something when you said that. Because for years, I did low carb diets. And anytime I would see anything that said anything to the contrary, like, no low carb diets are not necessary. Carbs are good for performances. I would just my confirmation bias or whatever bias I had was like mineral that can't be right, like, and so I would ignore anything related to that, which would have led me down this to this world of evidence based fitness. Right? Yeah. My first question to you is, Have you shared this podcast with them?

Isis Alvarado  43:04

I haven't.

Philip Pape  43:07

We'd watch it, share it, share the podcast with everyone just yeah, just very passively say, hey, there's a podcast I really love. Not everybody listens to podcasts, but like, Hey, this is my favorite podcast, send it to them. I'm shameless plug on my part. But honestly, if it helped you, Hopefully we could help.

Isis Alvarado  43:23

That's what we all want, you know, like, to help each other to support each other, you know, to share what has worked for us. But yeah, I mean, they, they I was also doing keto low carb for so long. So then also because I realized that nutrition, it's like, an, you know, like many things in life is like everyone Asian, you know, people, it's like a religion. Yeah, there is one, one universal truth, even amongst professional people, you get bias with what you believe in. So it's not until you are ready. That's why I say you have to be ready to break free from your religion and open your mind to something completely different. You know, like, listen to it. So yeah, it's like

Philip Pape  44:10

being saved from a cult. It's a being being rescued from a cold. Not everybody's ready for it. Right back

Isis Alvarado  44:20

out of there. Oh, yeah. Wait for the like, I'm ready. Yeah,

Philip Pape  44:23

yeah, that's why I guess the best way the best we can do is like love and support people who are in our lives, even if they're maybe making the choices we don't think are best for them. And and gently encourage them and provide support and maybe there'll be when they're ready, you know, it'll be there for them. So that's a, it's a good approach. Plus the idea of, of it being a religion implies that, like you said, a universal truth. If if you are listening to this, and you have if you have the lease like that right now and you're listening to ISIS a story and you can relate to everything she said, you're like, Hmm, maybe I should question some of that. I would go back to your concept of sustainable To me, sustainability is like a principle rather than a dogma, right? Rather than, like, if you have sustainability, it means you can eat in a way for you for forever. And therefore, there's no one right way to eat, it's the way it is for you. So kind of kind of embrace that idea, rather than a specific, you know, these are the right foods.

Isis Alvarado  45:22

Like I really enjoy with weightlifting, but I can see why for some people, they would never enjoy it, you know, they will never get into it. It's just a different way of No, like, working out. So some people, is

Philip Pape  45:36

that true? I just hold on, hold on. I want to challenge that because I have a lot of conversations with this on other podcasts about that, where they'll say, Well, what do you say to people who just don't like weightlifting? And And I'll say, Well, are they doing it the way that I would do it? And if you start like, getting stronger because you're using a training plan and progressive over like, I've never met anybody who doesn't start to like the training, then that's my opinion. What do you guys

Isis Alvarado  45:58

Zack my opinion, but they wouldn't they wouldn't even want to try or they wouldn't wouldn't try it long enough to to like it because of everything. You cannot like something like there is no love at first sight with your workout.

Philip Pape  46:14

True. And it's hard. It's hard, right? Yeah, people. Yes,

Isis Alvarado  46:18

they are very resistant to it, especially women. But now more I see more and more women who are into weightlifting. Actually, much more than before. So yeah, I guess I guess I would believe that everybody would love it, if they give it a try if they are rational enough to understand it enough to decide whether they like it or not. And for sure, they would like it more than any other kind of any any other kind of exercising. But as I said, like some people, they're not even willing to make

Philip Pape  46:53

it true. So that's a lot of wisdom right there seriously, that you just dropped that. You may not like something the first time you try it, but you stick to it, and then you'll see if you like it. And with weightlifting with lifting weights, it seems to be almost universal, that if you do it the right way and start to build muscle, you're going to like it. And there's something like natural about using your body and using your muscles as a human being. Again, in my opinion, I'm very passionate about this. But I've seen people who did not like lifting, and they've done everything. And then all of a sudden, they maybe do some bodyweight movements that help them solve a problem in their life, like an older person who has trouble getting off the couch. And then they start squatting. And now they can get off the couch and their joints don't hurt. And now they're like, Oh, now I see the value in this. And so if you're listening and you like you think you're not gonna like it, you've got to give it a shot like ISIS is saying and tie it to a performance goal you have or a health goal you have or something very specific that you can then train toward, you know, don't just train to be have a great body and a lot of muscle like a year or two years from now. That may be too vague. Do it for the process. Do it for the short term wins and salsa. So yeah, good.

Isis Alvarado  48:02

I think I also think regarding weightlifting, there is a lot of you know, like, people like him when I was younger, and I started going to the gym. Way nifty and for me it was for like bodybuilders so and a lot of people still say like that, at least, where I'm from where I come from, you know, like, like lifting heavy, like we met would have like these tiny little numbers to pink, lifting heavy weight. And using all the machines that was like on he wanted to be like Mr. Olympia, like, gigantic, bulky in the gym. So I think a lot of people still associate by lifting with that, because not long ago, and she messaged me asking me what what do you think, what can you tell me about intermittent fasting? And I was like, what, for losing weight or for health? In general? She's like, No, I just want to lose some weight. And I won't say well, I did it for a long time. And actually, I didn't lose any weight. Because of it. You may or may not, but it does. It's not gonna make you lose weight, per se. But this one, I can tell you how to lose weight very easily. And I kind of talked to her about it, like you have to lift weights, etc. As you say, No, I'm doing for that. She's like 45 And I'm not too old for that. And first, like, actually, you should start lifting weights. If you want to avoid like osteoporosis or whatever, you know, that's the best anyone to do. To avoid all these pains you start on all these health issues you start having when you grow it because of your bones, bone density, etc. So as I say, as I said, if it weren't addressed as I say whenever you want I can guide you to it you just need to find probably a personal trainer who will like help you understand you know the correct one, that's all and they want

Philip Pape  49:52

one ear out the other. Well, she's not ready. She's not ready to leave the call.

Isis Alvarado  49:56

Okay, well, you know, that's what I can do. I just and they plan

Philip Pape  50:00

to see that's true, it's true. And that's a good point too, because some people will hear it over and over and over again. And then like two years later, they'll finally you know, after frustration, they'll finally reach out. And, by the way, for anyone listening, there is an age at which you're too old to lift, and it's the day after you die. That's the age that you're too old to it. And I mean, that literally, because recent studies have shown in your 80s, and 90s, you can build new tissue, I mean, that is so amazing. My own mother's approaching 70. And she's lifting for the first time in her life, she loves it, and she's getting stronger. That's what it's about. It's not just physique, even though physiques a nice side benefit. It's about being a human like, we're, we're mechanical, right, we have these joints and skeletal muscle, and if we don't use it, it all just starts to waste. And you start to get frail. And just like anybody else you see, walking around, your trajectory is poor health, metabolic disease and all of that. And ISIS here is like staving all of that off, she's getting younger every year of her life by lifting. So what else has it improved in your life? Besides, you know, the physical and mental, like, relationships, career personal goals, anything else? Well,

Isis Alvarado  51:08

I mean, already that emotional part of it. And, and the physical part of reading, like a lot, emotionally, it has improved a lot. As I said, when I, this period, in which I was like, a little bit too down, like working out made me feel like myself, again, that's already a huge improvement. I realized that exercise, and it's not just exercise, just because I exercise because I have if I had done some hate or some party or whatever, I would have felt like I wouldn't have felt the same, I would have felt like no,

Philip Pape  51:45

yeah, I'm just exhausted.

Isis Alvarado  51:48

Love me power. Yeah, it makes me feel empowered, then that I would say that the effect in the IP every single aspect in my life, sir. Beautiful,

Philip Pape  52:00

ya know that we hear that a lot of the confidence you get sometimes it sometimes it feeds into other areas where maybe you, you make a decision you would have made otherwise or take take, you know, be work on personal development or make you know, you speak up at work or something, sometimes people have a very specific thing they tie it to with confidence, you're already a very confident person, it seems I suspect a lot of that is inherent in you as well over the years. But the fact that you've found yourself and you've kind of got past the emotional side of it, and now it's been more positive, I can just see it on your face and how you talk. And I think that alone is you're gonna inspire a lot of people, just in general, by your interactions with them. It sounds like already you're doing that. As well as being on the show. I don't want to give the show too much credit, but like, seriously, you're gonna you're gonna inspire a lot of people because it's just just so positive.

Isis Alvarado  52:47

That's mine. Well, that's my job, I

Philip Pape  52:50

for sure.

Isis Alvarado  52:51

I hate to hear people struggling with, you know, their weight issues every time. And every time I talk with my college friends, they're always you know, like, telling me how hard it is why they cannot lose weight. And they are like doing everything and they tell me what they eat. I'm like, Oh my God, you just need to eat more.

Philip Pape  53:10

You know what, you're gonna share this episode with them? Right? All your friends, everyone, you know, like, Hey, look at me, I'm on this fate. I'm famous. I'm on the show. Now, you know, millions of downloads and share it with that. And then maybe they'll get the message and they'll they'll laugh because I'm saying we're saying all these things about the

Isis Alvarado  53:29

identities that religion? Yeah. Another afraid they're gonna be like that.

Philip Pape  53:35

Yeah, maybe maybe you never know, you might be surprised. Now probably be surprised. Like, we're gonna give them the benefit of the doubt when they're

Isis Alvarado  53:42

watching me know for sure. I think a lot of people you know, like, it just takes time. It takes time for some people to like, get the message and be ready. For sure.

Philip Pape  53:53

So tying this all together. For listeners who might be where you once were right, if they're feeling stuck in the unhealthy patterns, maybe it's your friends who are listening to this, but anybody who's listening? What either what practical advice do you want to give them? Like one or two simple tips to start their own journey? or thought of another way? What would you have told yourself, you know, like 15 years ago to kind of jumpstart this, knowing that there's the mental piece you have to get past the this religion of like bias, you have to get past what what would you say?

Isis Alvarado  54:24

Well, I would say that definitely like things are simpler than what you think they should be. And consistency. And sustainability is the main my magic ingredients in this part of my journey. Like being consistent, because I don't see it anymore as an end goal to lose this amount of skills. So it means that it's just my life journey. So of course you have to be consistent. It's okay to like, fall off the log on once in a while, it's okay even if it's twice in a week, whatever, is just keep on the journey. Just keep walking this path, and period. And sustainability helps it consistency. Because the more sustainable you do, like you have to create your own process. Like, for example, I was trying to balance when I was having like my, my once a week, meal out, I was trying to balance my calories of the day to be able to fit that 1000 Calorie burger. And then I realized that, that was putting too much stress in my mind. And you know, I was feeling hungry or whatever. And I say, Okay, I'm just gonna eat enough. And if this day, I eat more calories. Who cares? You know, it's more sustainable for me to do it this way, than to like, do it the other way, which is sacrificing my other two meals, to be able to see that delicious burger that I like to have once a week. So it's all you know, you have to make it sustainable for you. And that will help you be consistent. So

Philip Pape  56:06

true. So true. I mean, you've you got it, you've got it like you figured it out. I just like if you can plan your day, your week, your training, your food, your movement, all that in a way that you can do it or that if it's your life, of course, then you can be consistent. Yeah, some people have a backward they like trying to force in the consistency with some discipline or willpower, with things that they don't like, right? Well, you're saying, Well, if you like it, and it's a process, and it's giving you wins every day, you'll just do it. Just like you

Isis Alvarado  56:36

can, you can't rely on willpower. This is something I have learned the hard way. You can't rely on willpower because it is not an infinite resource. And food is always available. I mean, like if we're talking if you have issues with food, with power on a lawn, it's not gonna get you anywhere, because food is always there.

Philip Pape  56:57

And now the temptation is always there. So why Why try to make it? Yeah, yeah,

Isis Alvarado  57:01

it's not something like alcohol or cigarettes that you can just, like, make disappear from your life completely. So yeah, willpower is not gonna help. You just do create a system that works for you in a sustainable way. They send that that is enjoyable, that doesn't feel like a sacrifice. And now with the right information, I have realized that this system exists for me, it's not a sacrifice, I eat as much as I want. I eat everything that I want, you know, in moderation, of course, I plan it out. And it works very well for me, and it doesn't feel it doesn't have to feel difficult. That's my main main livelihood feels difficult, that's a red flag, you have to find a different way.

Philip Pape  57:48

I love it a system a system that sustainable, enjoyable, doesn't feel like a sacrifice. And that is 100% possible for everyone listening. So I want to know is this what is next in your life? Well, it besides this amazing conversation we had and of course, you're going to share this with all your friends who are going to get you know, converted out of that religion into you know, this sustainable way of life. What are your future goals for your fitness, your health, and this spreading awareness that you seem to be really good to do it here

Isis Alvarado  58:16

are my, my bigger goal right now is to completely heal my relationship with food, do not feel guilty for like not feeling any kind of feeling of guilt or, or self they fade or not being enough because of the way it I want to feel that freedom that you know, I can eat wherever I want. Not literally, but actually I like to eat healthy. I just want to break free from that mental chaos, which is now almost zero, where they learn in my subconscious mind still, like you know, whenever I eat extra calories, it's like tomorrow you will eat those calories that and then I already say that doesn't work for me. And you know, you know, like just heal completely my relationship with food. I am very confident that in the physical aspect of it on the right track and there's no way back. I'm looking forward to my first cycle full cycle of gaining and then Jamie I think to see how it looks. But yeah, mainly my main goal now is focusing on the emotional side of it because everything else it's already it feels it fits perfectly. I I already you know I feel well with what I eat, etc is just the mental side of it, but it's still it's still there. It takes time because it's your subconscious mind. You know, since I was a child, feeling guilty for what I ate, feeling that I had to eat less you know, like sometimes and thinking like maybe I could just go back into the gut you know, like yes Yeah, totally agree. Yeah. All in mind that telling you like, what, are you doing anything too much?

Philip Pape  1:00:06

Right? I mean, it sounds like you've come so far. And you're right, you know, we're always gonna have things that we struggle with or things from our past. And you put it nicely when you said subconscious. And I would even say unconscious, in some cases, pattern, like their patterns, right, their patterns that are just like trained in you. And if it started when you were 10, that's even harder to break because it goes so far back. But since you said that, it reminds me we, you know, in the Wits & Weights community, you know, I would love to have more content about emotion and, and self sabotage and like, you know, unconscious patterns and things like that as part of our, you know, information and maybe some future podcast episodes about that. So I'd love your input on that as we go forward. I do like to ask this question of all guests that we think you know, what's coming, but what one question, did you wish I had asked it? What is your it's

Isis Alvarado  1:00:55

okay, yeah, I had to take about four days. So my.

Philip Pape  1:01:01

So you thought about it in advance, and it was hard. Right. Okay. All right. Oh,

Isis Alvarado  1:01:05

no. So what's the most difficult part of this new

Philip Pape  1:01:09

journey? Okay, good question. But what's your answer?

Isis Alvarado  1:01:13

And the answer is the, the emotional part of it, they're transitioning from the old mentality that I have to do more sacrifice more illness, etc. To this new mentality of things have to be simple and eating? Because it's kind of like, it's like counterintuitive, you know, it's like, it's like, when you're, you're afraid of heights, and you you're gonna jump, even if you tell your mind and say it's safe to jump, let's do it. Your subconscious mind, like, keeps you there, like, frozen. And I can do it, I'm kind of facing that right now. Almost, like very frequent that you have to realize that in the like, you have this internal battle, like, this is too good to be true. This is doing say what you know, like, is it gonna work? How is this gonna work? Like, I have to think much more difficult if they haven't worked? Why isn't it work? So that is my only actual challenge right now with this new way of doing things? Because everything else is? What is there than what I always done? So yeah,

Philip Pape  1:02:26

so the emotional shift in all of your beliefs? Is is difficult. Yeah, yeah.

Isis Alvarado  1:02:33

You are changing from mindset in which things have to be super hard, and you're turning into something easier, it's still difficult for your brain, because your brain gets kind of like, hooked to that mentality, or the idea to that level of difficulty. So when you don't have it, your brains like, Hey, what's going on?

Philip Pape  1:02:54

Because it thinks something bad is gonna happen, right? And thinks, thinks that, that, so So why don't we just why don't we make everybody feel a little bit more easy about or relieved about this? What is the worst that can happen? If you make a quote unquote, wrong decision, like with your food, or your training? What's the worst is going to happen? Like that? Maybe it's hypothetical. But, you know, right. What, it's probably no worse than what's happened in the past when you haven't been doing anything. Actually,

Isis Alvarado  1:03:20

I had this. No, no, no, like, what's the worst that can happen? I'm gonna put away well, I've been putting on weight all of my life. Exactly. My name is not in you. So yeah, you're right, let them happen. It's nothing new, actually, something you've been going through all your life. Exactly.

Philip Pape  1:03:38

And the way we do things and the way ISIS does things, and I know, we didn't get into a lot of detail on that, but it's the awareness. And the control comes from the tracking and monitoring of what you're trying to measure, like ISIS, you know, tracks or food and tracks or lifts and stuff. And it's not quote unquote, calorie counting or like, this very, you know, has to be exactly this thing. It's more just, hey, what's going on with my choices with my body and with the outcome so that I can be that back and change what's happening. And if you have that awareness, you know, if things are going off in the path you don't want, and you can just correct it the way you do. Yeah, yes,

Isis Alvarado  1:04:09

exactly. And it's not about perfection. It's about on constant that consistent. Yep. Sustainability

Philip Pape  1:04:16

and consistently Awesome. All right, is ISIS. Do we want to let anybody know how to reach you here? Or do you want them to find you in the community?

Isis Alvarado  1:04:25

While I'm on the community, I don't really have like a public in social media persona. So it's just personal friends and all but I'm happy and I'm happy to interact with people and on the Facebook community. Beautiful.

Philip Pape  1:04:41

So for everyone listening, we're talking about the Wits & Weights Facebook group, totally free. It's a private group, but it's free. And as I mentioned before, very positive, very supportive. And you can join using the link in our show notes, or just searching Wits & Weights on Facebook, and you'll be able to find ISOCELL Lorado in there. I'll see if I can like link. I don't think I can link to a pro So far, but we'll link to the group so you can find her. Other than that this has been a pleasure, an amazing conversation. I'm really glad we had you on. I'm inspired just talking to you, you're so positive. And again, I'm grateful you came on ISIS.

Isis Alvarado  1:05:11

Thank you. And I really enjoyed this conversation too. And as I said, Thank you for everything you share, like this information has changed my life. And not only the scientific facts that you shared, but also your approach to it. That as I said, it has sunk in my mind and it has been like, it has been a key factor for the changes that I needed to do.

Philip Pape  1:05:36

That means a lot to me and says thank you, and thanks for coming on.

Isis Alvarado  1:05:39

Thank you. Really nice to meet you in person. Well,

Philip Pape  1:05:45

exactly. It's awesome. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights, please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong.

Ep 143: Unique Over 40 Workout Strategies for More Muscle, Energy, and Recovery with Brad Williams

Do you know the fitness principles that can be adapted to the over-40 age group? Discover practical tips to maintain a strong and healthy lifestyle beyond 40!

In this episode, Philip (@witsandweights) speaks with Brad Williams, host of the Over 40 Fitness Hacks podcast. Philip asked him to come on here to talk about the unique challenges and approaches for the over-40 demographic, when he was honored to be on his show recently. They discuss Brad’s motivations behind focusing on this age group, how fitness principles can be adapted to their age, and common age-related fitness myths. Brad shares his insights on effective training styles, managing stress and inflammation, and optimizing nutrition. Tune in and learn practical strategies for maintaining a strong and healthy lifestyle beyond 40.

Over the last decade, Brad has owned and operated three gym locations in Orange County, and oversaw more than 40 independent personal trainers, each with their unique training styles. He built a loyal following and sought-after client/trainer community culture within his gym locations.

Post-pandemic, Brad had to focus more on online training and started his fitness podcast called Over 40 Fitness Hacks. The show revolves around Brad’s passion for helping the over-40 crowd fight the aging process while still having a social life.

Today, you’ll learn all about:

2:17 Why focus on over-40 fitness
5:30 Personal fitness and health changes now that you're over 40
10:36 Training principles and adjustments for over 40
15:05 Common misconceptions or objections to training over 40
20:25 General training and programming principles
26:54 How to manage inflammation and stress
33:42 Mental health and fitness
41:08 Counting micros (not just calories/macros)
46:16 Muscle gain and strength expectations for 60s/70s
49:28 The question Brad wished Philip had asked
52:17 Where to find Brad
52:48 Outro

Episode resources:

• Podcast "Over 40 Fitness Hacks" and website www.Over40FitnessHacks.com

• Join our free insiders list to receive an EXCLUSIVE bonus interview with Brad on how he uses intermittent fasting, 36-hour fasts, EAAs, and more for his personal nutrition approach (and why)!

Episode summary:

As we age, the importance of maintaining a healthy and active lifestyle becomes more apparent. In a recent episode of our podcast, we had the pleasure of speaking with Brad Williams from the Over 40 Fitness Hacks podcast. Brad, an expert in midlife fitness, shares invaluable insights into the best practices for staying fit after 40.

For many, turning 40 marks a pivotal point in their fitness journey. This episode breaks down the myths surrounding midlife fitness and provides listeners with practical advice to help them navigate the changing landscape of their bodies. We discuss high-intensity training, the benefits of time under tension workouts, and the underestimated importance of everyday movement.

One key takeaway is the role of mitochondrial health in combating the aging process. High-intensity workouts, though daunting for some, are crucial in maintaining mitochondrial function. However, the emphasis shifts from the frequency of workouts to the quality of exercise as we age. Brad highlights how a change in mindset is required to adapt our fitness routines to our body's evolving needs.

We also delve into the significance of nutrition in maintaining vitality beyond 40. The conversation includes the crucial role of micro-minerals and the personalization of wellness routines. Stress management, mental health, and managing inflammation are also discussed, with strategies shared from our own experiences in thriving despite these challenges.

The podcast also covers the importance of raising your basal metabolic rate (BMR) by building lean muscle and the necessity of a high-quality diet. Personal anecdotes reveal how food allergies and nutrition can impact overall health. The discussion also touches on the importance of journaling to track how foods affect your body, the connection between stress, cortisol levels, nutrient absorption, and the role of consistent routines in achieving health goals.

The complexities of stress management and its impact on overall well-being are also explored. We examine the strong connection between physical and mental health, highlighting how fitness routines can alleviate anxiety and depression for many. Personal experiences emphasize the importance of perseverance in the journey toward mental health.

Lastly, we discuss the importance of tracking micro-minerals for nutrition, particularly potassium, calcium, magnesium, and vitamin D. Surprising benefits, such as reduced water retention and improved muscle function, are noted when adjusting these nutrient levels. The use of resources like EatThisMuch.com for tracking micros in food is recommended, along with the importance of regular blood work to identify deficiencies.

In conclusion, the episode not only sheds light on the intricacies of midlife fitness but also empowers listeners to take control of their health as they venture into the prime of their life. With Brad's expertise and actionable fitness hacks, our audience is equipped to fine-tune not just their body but their entire approach to well-being.

For those interested in connecting with Brad, he shares how listeners can reach out through his podcast and website. The episode wraps up with a reminder to follow the podcast for more episodes aimed at enhancing both mental and physical strength.

Join us on this invigorating journey as we redefine what it means to be fit after 40. The wealth of knowledge shared in this episode is sure to inspire and motivate anyone looking to maintain their health and fitness in midlife and beyond.

🚀 Click here to apply for coaching!

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✉️ Get access to the FREE Wits & Weights email list with insider strategies, bonus content, and conversations with experts on evidence-based fitness.

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Transcript

Brad Williams  00:00

Doing a little bit of high intensity training, you know, there's people out there that just love it to death and you know, good for you, I hate it. But having a little bit of that per week actually helps boosts the mitochondrial levels in your body, which is just part of the aging processes. As we slow down, we age we move less, our mitochondria count starts dropping in our body, and that's what keeps us youthful. And it's also the powerhouse in ourselves that utilizes fat and burns fat.

Philip Pape  00:29

Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host, Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger, optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition. We'll uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry, so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in Wits & Weights community Welcome to another episode of the Wits & Weights Podcast. Today I'm joined by Brad Williams, host of the over 40 Fitness hacks podcast. I had the honor of being on his show recently. And I asked him to come on here to talk about the unique challenges and approaches for the over 40 demographic. We'll discuss Brad's motivations behind focusing on this age group, how fitness principles can be adapted to our age. And we're going to of course, debunk common age related fitness myths. Brad will share his insights on effective training styles, managing stress and inflammation and optimizing nutrition. And of course, you're going to learn practical strategies for maintaining a strong, healthy lifestyle beyond Florida. Over the last decade, Brett owned and operated three gym locations in Orange County, and oversaw more than 40 independent personal trainers, each with their unique training styles. He built a loyal following and sought after client trainer community culture within each of his gym locations. Post pandemic, Brad had to focus more on online training, and started his fitness podcast called over 40 Fitness hacks. He wanted the show to revolve around his passion for helping the over 40 Crowd fight the aging process while still having a social life. Brad psyched to see you again. Have you on the show?

Brad Williams  02:08

Yeah, thanks so much for having me on your show is great. Yeah, so

Philip Pape  02:12

it's so much fun, man. The over 40 thing is so hot right now, one of the most common questions I get all the time, is you know what to do for this thing over 40 Whatever it is training, nutrition, you name it, as if it's some magic arbitrary number. And you know, I kind of pick your brain on that, why the over 40 crowd, let's just start there. Yeah.

Brad Williams  02:30

So you know, just as a frame of reference in your intro, you know, I've been a personal trainer for 15 years owned and operated gyms in Orange County. And I think just kind of those were the over 40 crowd was kind of who could afford you know, private personal trainers or semi private personal trainers, which is what I did, you know, I trained a few people still kind of catered the workout, each one of them, but you know, allowed them to share the cost. And just got really good at it. And, and, you know, would always notice the over 40 crowd, you're talking about their aches and pains and how, how much harder it was then in their 20s and 30s. And, you know, I always give them some props for that I get it. But you know, we could still work hard, we can still get there and kind of grind grind, you know, let's, let's get that motivation as being the personal trainer. And then you know, fast forward 15 years, you know, doing everything I've been doing. And finally turning 40 myself. And now I'm seeing the the problems, you know, it's harder to keep the weight off, I'm tired, you know, you got life, work life, family balance, and I'm like, Oh my God, all these all these clients were right, it is harder. But you know, I've got that personal trainer mindset where I refuse to quit, I will literally find the best ways of quickest ways, you know, and safest ways to still get that healthy body that athletically and aesthetically pleasing body. But also, you know, I've also kind of changed my mindset to more longevity as well, over the last few years. So that's, that's kind of where I am now. And I just love helping people, you know, being in our 20s and 30s. That was great. But you know, we had aids to help us out on that. And now we have to worry about a lot more stuff than just how many days we can get to the gym. It doesn't work like that anymore.

Philip Pape  04:17

That's a solid answer. So first of all, thank you for your honesty on saying like it was the people who could afford it like initially is I totally understand. When I was getting into marketing, I'm like, Well, you know, I'm probably not marketing to 21 year olds need high ticket coaching or whatever. So that's funny but then you said that you know, you yourself hadn't quite experienced that yet being in your 20s or 30s at the time and and then you kind of aged into that and now you can really empathize empathize with your clients, which is also a good point because those listening you know, we have a lot in that demographic don't hire 20 year old coach come on, hire the guys that have been through it or grizzled got the little bit of the gray hairs you know, we understand? Exactly, we understand right and then and then the idea of of refusing to quit and like continuing to push appeals to me and I can relate to wanting to get younger, the older you are like now that you're in your 40s. It's like, Forget Father Time, like, we're gonna figure this out, or we're gonna keep going and making progress. But then the idea of people not having age anymore to help them is another good quote you said, because folks are listening to like, Yeah, I know what you mean. Like, in my 20s, I could do anything. And now I've got things happening, like stuff is just happening, whether it's from built up life stress, right, from obligations and their family and stuff like that, or just what happens with your body? So you said you're 42, I'm 43, we're pretty much the same age and the over 40 crowd, is there something that you experienced in the last five years that you attribute to age that you just absolutely couldn't relate to in your 30s? Because you alluded to some of that? Yeah.

Brad Williams  05:51

So you know, I just picked 40 is the number but you know, I started noticing playing real competitive flag football with a lot of my buddies, and noticing some injuries at 30 to 35. Those were the first times I saw ankle rolls, and, you know, almost some meniscus tears in the knees, just from playing a simple sport like that. And I'm like, God, you know, so we train and try to be more functionally fit and do this things. And, you know, it's just you're just, you're fighting a losing battle, you know, if it My thing is, I mean, if you really love and it's gotta be part of your life, then you make it happen. But for me, I finally decided that, no, I'm not getting paid millions of dollars to be an NFL athlete, why am I doing this? You know, there's other things I want to do with my life. So I pretty much just took sports out, you know, minus some pickleball or, you know, whatever. But uh, that's that's kind of the thing. And then right around, I think 37 I had a pretty prominent lower back injury. And you always have to tell people it has nothing to do with the gym or any my workouts. I always got to put that out there. But it was you know, I was the I was the gym owner, I was running three gyms I was the accountant, the bathroom cleaner, the marketing guy, the front desk guy, you know everything right and so I can get these gyms going. And part of it was moving equipment around to keep it fresh and everything. So one day, I was just moving out of one of my gyms, a couple pieces of equipment and, you know, walked in, it was more of a warehouse style gym. And we use these little eye bolts that were anchored into the ground, and we hook our battle ropes to it. So they're basically OSHA trip hazards, right? So we usually put orange cones on him when we lift the shed door. While I was sitting there to grab a couple things. I'm like ADD, though, you know, I don't need to do that. Literally, as soon as I went in there, talk to someone grabbed a frame weight rack, about 45 pounds turn and totally forgot, went out tripped on this thing lunged out so violently, taught myself and stupidly held onto the rack. And immediately I heard the pop. And basically, long story short, I blew out my L five s one. And oh, it's just a nightmare experience. So with with that, and over the, you know, a five year period of time of two surgeries, tons of chiropractor visits, physical therapy, visits, everything, you know, a finally, you know, that's kind of a shock to, you know, humbling you and seeing what's what's worth it to you on, you know, what you can do now what's in it for your future and kind of longevity, you know, stuck with me like how am I supposed to play with my kid later in life, you know, what I want to be able to walk and, you know, deadlifting 450 pounds is just not my future anymore, even though I was functionally sound and safe doing it with all the, you know, personal training principles that I had. But now it's, you know, I had to adopt more of a philosophy of time under tension, you know, a lot of people have different names for it, do negatives or slow mo training, and I just call it time under tension, taking everything I do, slowing it down, you know, instead of one to two seconds to finish each rep of whatever exercise you're doing, I'd take four to five, sometimes longer. And really get that mind body connection, control, feel the contraction, but it allows you to use about half the weight. So now I've just you know, given myself that much more time expended on my body, as far as joints and you know, my spine as well. So, and I've been doing great with that. And we'll talk about other hacks that I've learned that you know, everything is about quality now not quantity. And it's not just movement, and how many times at the gym, you can get, you know, there's now sleep, inflammation, different kinds of stress, all these things that I've incorporated, that we probably should have done in our 20s That's true. But we just didn't care didn't listen to our bodies and we just had so much drive and you know that young energy that we just push past all those things?

Philip Pape  09:43

Yeah, I've yet to meet someone in that age group who will listen, I guess, who will just say, oh, you know what you're saying is very wise. And I understand it's gonna happen to me, so let me know. It's just never happy like we all learn from the school of hard knocks and you're thinking about back surgery. So I have back surgery to I get it l five s one, same thing. So many people listening, have you know, they get the tendinopathy, or the tendinitis or tendon nesis, right, depending what you call it, they get the they have the surgeries. And you get to this fork in the road, you get to these decision points, the older you get, the more you get beat up of what do I do now. And I like your principle of finding something that allows you to continue to train and not using it as an excuse, but also not being stupid, and just saying, Well, I can do the exact same thing that I did before. So we'll get into training a little bit because I liked the idea of modifying tempo, modifying your lifts, it's all good. Like, I'm not dogmatic about that stuff at all, when it's the best thing for you. So, stepping back, what are the big rocks, like the principles for over 40. And again, I know 40 is an arbitrary number, but it's a good transition point. You know, men and women that's in your testosterone hormones start to decline, you know, during menopause, for women, it's when we all get into mid career. So all the stresses there are kids are like 10 years old, roughly. So what are the principles that do change the approach you have to take, like recovery, joint health, you mentioned stuff like that. Yeah,

Brad Williams  11:11

so that's, that was kind of hard for me to grasp, even after the back surgery was, you know, to get to get what I wanted, I would have to put minimum five times in the gym, lifting heavy, you know, to get what I want. And what I noticed was after adopting, you know, this other style of slowing everything down, you don't need to go five times, you know, sometimes I only do two to two days a week. Usually I try to get three, but just how important movement is it doesn't need to be, you know, heavy lifting, obviously, you can do, you can do quite a bit, which is two to three days, and then your other time spent, it'd be walking, right and why I like rucking with a little light weight vest. And movement is really what matters. And I like to preface during COVID When a lot of us trainers had to go home. And we had the luxury of taking some of our gym equipment home and keep it going where our clients, you know how to use whatever they get. They had, and we would still get great workouts for an hour, hour and a half. And then for the rest of the day, we would sit there and do nothing because we weren't even really supposed to go outside, right? Every single one of us gained like 15 pounds. So we did the same workout got all our protein every day. Yeah, that was the one problem was movement, you don't realize like how much we were moving being trainers. And, you know, for me jumping from gym to gym to gym, and just hustling. No, we're not doing that. And that was the first time I was like, oh my god movement, all his matters just as much as you know, lifting to tear down the muscle and rebuild to get that lean muscle mass. And then so going down that rabbit hole, you know, that's why listening to other experts and just really getting into this over 40 Fitness theories of you got to start looking at all this stuff and slow down, give your body time to repair, you got to worry about sleeping better. Supplements stuff only if you can't get it or won't from your diet, there's people that just won't do it. So okay, we've got to supplement it. And then another big one was I really learned the benefit of doing a little bit of high intensity training, you know, there's people out there that just love it to death and you know, good for you, I hate it. But having a little bit of that per week actually helps boost the mitochondrial levels in your body, which is just part of the aging processes. As we slow down, we age we move less, our mitochondria count starts dropping in our body. And that's what keeps us youthful. And it's also the powerhouse in ourselves that utilizes fat and burns fat. So right there is a flag that saying that you're not moving as much you're not doing a lot of this high intensity stuff. You're aging. That's why we're putting on all this fat. I mean, I'm doing the same amount of workouts, I even cut my calories down even more. I'm eating more protein than I ever did. And why might Why am I getting heavier it's because you're not you're not having that same effect of having all that mitochondria. So that was a an addition I had to start adding it and sure enough, it was really easy to start boosting that and without any effort you know one day a week started seeing the results start coming in faster so that's what just kind of threw me down that rabbit hole and now I've got all these different buckets you know one for movement was more contrast one yeah, all that stuff and you don't have to master at all but if you dabble in a little bit of each one of them now being over 40 Oh my god, you can do so much damage. Alright, so

Philip Pape  14:30

there's a lot I want to unpack because I love even the last time you said dabble in each one of them is is a great way to put it because it people try to do maybe they try to do too much. Or maybe they think they have to do everything in every category. But like you said, dabbling, maybe what you're getting at is consistency or you know, having that spread of doing all the basic routines and habits in your life. The healthy routines to some extent most people are not doing any like or most people are doing very little. So you're gonna be way beyond the next person just by doing some of that. A couple of print Suppose I want to tie him because before we started recording, we talked about how there's, there's things we may, quote unquote, disagree on or have controversy on whatever. And we'll probably talk about that at the end and put that in a bonus content for people to listen to. But the idea of doing too much, and moderating your volume and frequency, when I hear you talk about the importance of movement, I think of energy flux, right, I think of your expenditure. And like, like you said, at the cellular level, you're engaging this. But you also mentioned the time and attention principle. And I think there's probably different ways to get to that result, because I had a similar experience in the pandemic, where I had been doing CrossFit for years, which was added like crazy level, I stepped back and just started lifting three days a week. In a sense, I was reducing volume by doing that. And all of a sudden, I could recover and seek more and build, although I was lifting very heavy, but not that heavy, because it was relative to my strength. Yeah. Anyway, the principle though, is the same when people are listening. It's like, don't do too much, you know, realize that recovery demands are higher and your recovery capacities lower with age, move, walk through on a rucksack. Get your sleep, like these are all super important. Right? So thank you for Yeah, I think I think it was good. Those are the big ones. You can chime in when you want because sometimes I just ramble. But the opposite of that is the misconceptions or excuses people make that are not true. Or they cuz I'm sure you see that as well. Like we just talked about what you do need to be cognizant of what do people say? Well, I'm now I'm 40. So you know, what do they say? Yeah, well, one, one, they

Brad Williams  16:31

say, I just don't have time for this? Well, we have we have a solution for that. You don't have to work out as long and hard as you think. And then, you know, others say, well, is you're fighting a losing battle? Well, I mean, you could say that with any aspect of life, right? We're all gonna die someday. But my thing is, when like hate said was especially like women, you know, that are kind of referencing their 20 year old bodies and college life and their friends with their friends, kids, like how I can't get back to that way. And I was like, first of all, you have denser bones now just happens with age and then eventually goes back the other way. Our body just needs more water, it has survival mechanisms to hold on to more fat, you're going to be heavy, no matter what. So the weight, the skills gotta go. Everything is about inches, how you feel, you know, having that muscle to feel functionally well, that you can walk upstairs and do anything you want. And then I mean, there is a diminishing return as we age of being able to simulate protein, how well our digestive tract works. But you don't give up, you still got to optimize it and just work smarter, not harder. And you can you can get real close, like I feel like I have my 29 to 31 year old body. And I think I can hold that for another 2030 years, and I'm barely doing any effort, because I've got my routines down pack. You know, I enjoy life. I know that. And that's the biggest thing is you got to find stuff that works for you. And we'll talk about later. But you know, what I think of for diets and all that, but I've never put anything on anyone. And I just like being a detective what we got to find things that make you feel good for, you know, diet wise, you know, things that you like for exercise, and just keep you moving. And my best thing that I tell clients is, you know, after they've been with me for a while and they're still crying about you know, I don't have my 20 year old body in VR, I talked about that. I was like, Hey, let's let's just look at you. You've been with me for a while and you feel great. And you know everything let's let's put you against your peers, all your friends the same age, how does that look? They're like, Oh my god, I'm

Philip Pape  18:34

so much better, like top 1%

Brad Williams  18:38

Just, you know, in some of my older clients, how much more quicker they are mentally in talking and some of their counterparts are just barely moving, talking so slowly, like that's huge. Now not everything has to be about the six pack and, and dude, I have I spent my whole 20s and 30s trying to keep and hold that six pack. And when it comes down to it, you see these bodybuilders who, you know, look effortlessly holding them, but what they're taking and what they're using for dehydration and all these compounds and chemicals. It's not representative and they only do it for that one Photoshop. What do you think they look like the rest of the year? I see them they're in my gym. they puff up just like me.

Philip Pape  19:21

And where are you? And where are you seeing this the algorithm? Right? You're seeing the algorithm. So oh, man, the the idea of looking at your peers is really powerful, because a few things come to mind. Brad, one is that it doesn't take much to get you there like and you've seen this you can take someone who's been sedentary and within harsh weeks, even there are things that can start to, relative to their peers seem like outliers, like I've seen people who you know, they're starting to get that hunched over posture, even in their late 30s and 40s. You know, they're walking on the desk all day, and then they start lifting weights and two weeks later, you see him standing up like this, right? You know, older books in their 60s 70s who have trouble getting off the couch. Just a little bit of squatting A week later, they're getting off the couch like that stuff is is life changing? And and you talked about like the bigger and denser bones. I think it's all funny, right? Because you're right, women were just like, see how much more powerful muscular they are compared to their peers from a little bit of this? It's, that's I love that approach. It's good. Yeah, yeah. No. And you mentioned like protein MPs declines hormones. Yeah. All that is a fact. So what are you going to do about it? You just do control what you can. Okay, so I actually have a few questions from our members that are Wits, & Weights community for you. I'll sprinkle these in. The first one is really about training and programming. So I think it's a good segue into that. If we're talking over 40, and your goal is body recomp, you know, body composition, which I'm sure most of your clients are looking for that hypertrophy, physique, that kind of stuff. What's your general principle for training and programming? You know, not knowing the individual who we're talking about here? Just general? What are your principles? Yeah,

Brad Williams  20:59

it's still very similar to how I preach to my 20s and 30s. You know, everything is about raising your BMR, your basal metabolic rate, building more lean muscle tissue, when you're burning calories during the workout, to your burning calories, while you know, the aftermath of recovery and the protein synthesis that's happening, and the thermogenics that's burning more calories, and then having a higher BMR. Because now you have you know, three, five pounds more muscle, you're burning more calories at rest, even when you're sleeping than you were before. So that's always been my theory, my whole 15 year career. But now it's just, you know, what changes after 40? Well, we're still going for that. But you know, like I mentioned before, everything's got to be quality, not quantity. So first thing is we really got to start cleaning up the diet. And if, like, one one thing is really hard is, you know, some people can do it. But I mean, I can't all my, almost all my clients can't do it, just get enough protein in the day. Okay, so we tried first real food, but now we got to use protein shakes. Well, you know, I've had bouts of problems with cheaper whey protein concentrate, because it was always the cheapest stuff. And later in life, actually found out I had a severe allergic reaction that was building up to that, that sent me to the hospital twice anaphylactic shock. And now I know I have a milk protein allergy that's been building up. And now that I look back in time, I had noticed almost every single time I had that shake, I was getting a little itch or something wrong with my lip. And those are all the telltale signs that your body's changing and liking something. I'm allergic allergic to a whole slew of other things, by the way, but we don't really have the time to talk about that stuff. So one is this, like, we got to start getting quality stuff, stuff that works with your gut. You know, there's all this science and stuff coming in about your gut biome and who knows which way to go right, but easiest thing to do is start journaling. How you feel like after you eat after you drink anything, I mean, you should never have that bloating feeling seen your liver blowed out. You know, I found out I was allergic to red wine gluten, obviously the milk broccoli, like where did that come from? I almost had a, you know about it that last year, just a good amount of broccoli and just had not like a severe allergic reaction, but enough to cause enough inflammation enough discomfort IBS slightly. And I've noticed that anytime your body's inflamed anytime your body's stress, either no pain or mental heal your cortisol levels, raise your guts not working properly. And so everything you put in your body is just a waste, it's not going to process it correctly, you're not going to get those nutrients until your body is calmed down. And so the best results I've ever gotten is journaling and making sure that everything that I put into my body, my stress, everything is just top notch, my sleep top notch, and then you start seeing the needle just start going like crazy. You're getting all the results you want. So it's not just alcohol anymore. You know, that was a big thing in our 20s and 30s. Like, well, you know what you're getting yourself into if you're drinking on the weekend that pretty much everything's turning to the fat. Well, all these other systems are doing the same thing too. So you have to watch everything now.

Philip Pape  24:16

Yeah, first of all, I feel bad for you. Well, those allergens because like, it's hard for me to relate to some people because my body for whatever reasons, like a tank with anything, I could just put any garbage into it and it's fine. It's just amazing. Other than you're right, some protein patterns, you gotta watch out that certain, certain negative side effects depends. But I think that's important, right? Because as we get older, these tolerances start to show up, or you may develop an allergen. What I found to Brad is people have been living in this state of fog for years not realizing it until they eliminate it from their diet, right. Oh, there's the clarity I was missing. Even alcohol does that to some people. But um, you talked about stress and cortisol and gut kind of malfunctioning and therefore kind of the nutrient partitioning isn't up memo, which is, it's one of these hidden things that people need to be aware of. The journaling is a great tool. So when you talk about journaling, I assume there's many ways people can do this. Is there a particular way you really like and find that people stick with and find useful when it comes to journaling?

Brad Williams  25:17

I don't really have like an app to use, I'm real big, and just keeping paper, I love paper, getting my To Do lists, and then little journals like that. But other clients, they use, like Microsoft notes, or, you know, or just text it to themselves, but just just something that habit and not not only for watching those items. Another one is, you know, we talked about building your routines when you finally feel like, what's the best diet, you know, what are you supposed to eat on there, you know, what type of movement you're doing each day, because you should do something and you need reminders. So you know, I have this down, and probably in mid day or late afternoon, I always see what my to do list is, next page is, you know, all these routines and like, Oh, crap, I forgot to take some fermented food products, but you know, because that helps with your gut biome, allegedly, and it does feel good to me. But just things like that, or your protein powder, you fried take your second shake, if that's something that was important to you. You know, it's hard once you start building these to remember day in day out, and you let three months, six months go by and then you're like, why is nothing working? And then you go back through this stuff. You're like, I forgot, like six of the things I was doing. Yeah. So it's just that's just not how our brain works. You know, some people probably have photographic memories, but no,

Philip Pape  26:29

no, yeah, I hear you're saying, right, because like I used to take to Brazil nuts every day for selenium, that I remember that dropped off at some point. And I used to have a reminder, my phone and I don't anymore, and I'm like, oh, okay, maybe

Brad Williams  26:42

like that. I do nutritional yeast and eggs for the same thing. But I'll forget. I'll forget the nutritional yeast for like, a year.

Philip Pape  26:49

Yeah, yeah. So you gotta write this stuff down. I mean, whether it's a notebook and app reminder, I probably 20 reminders a day for all little things like take my vitamins, you know, or, yep, do this. Do that. So yeah, it's human being human. Okay, so inflammation and stress. You mentioned, physical and emotional, of course, I'm sure when we talk about stress, which increases with age, and part of it is the decades we spent not taking care of our body, like I said, or life becomes stressful with obligations of family, financial obligations, and so on. So, you know, and I'm even putting you to sleep here. Oh, you know, as well as we have this podcast, because we're probably got some stress. Just kidding, man. For those that watching the video, he just just yawns I was joking. Oh, no, I

Brad Williams  27:29

was coughing. I'm muted, so I can pop. That's good. Oh, I

Philip Pape  27:32

thought it was a yawn. That's so funny. And I only say that brand, because I own all the time. And I feel like I'm offending people every time.

Brad Williams  27:38

My teeth, which is why I have some other issues with teeth, although it

Philip Pape  27:42

sounds good. So the question is, how do we take care of the inflammation in the stress? Like, where did those come from? And are there some practical things that people can kind of easily do and then maybe more advanced strategies if you have those? Yeah, so

Brad Williams  27:56

for inflammation as far as like, you know, we already went through that you know, what you're putting in your body, okay, you've written all that down, you're feeling great, your body's never really bloating up, you're working on your, your mental stress, you know, what's going on with work your family, I mean, that could take some time, too. But I'm telling you, until you take care of that, my job is a personal trainer, and your job, you know, trying to go through this journey. It's just, it's not going to happen, or it's going to have marginal results. And one of my favorite stories on that is one of my clients, a female at the time, she was I think, 32 she had been coming for about a year and she wanted to go the distance like almost, you know, bikini prep, if she wanted to, I'd have to refer to someone else that did that kind of stuff. We got great results. Just couldn't get that last, you know, five to 10 pounds off, maybe eight pounds Max, it didn't matter how much better on nutrition, you know, we gave her more movement homework to dues and, you know, progressive overload, like crazy, like we mapped it all out. And throughout that whole time, you know, I would I was noticing that, you know, she'd always talked about work and how she hated her coworkers, her boss, and she had jumped from job to job, she's just, you know, I'm not that person to I couldn't work for corporate anymore and deal with that stuff. But just just the stress, I didn't know how bad it was. And I I was friends with their husband as well. And he told me how bad it was God is, you know, you need to take care of this. And eventually, she got her wish her husband got a like a higher paying job and was able to give her her dream of going out, consulting, you know, LLC and doing it on your own. And I don't think it was maybe eight days, nine days, she lost like eight pounds. Like all the pounds that we were trying to get off and all sudden they came off and we had kind of given up on some of this extra work due. So she reverted back to the lesser time, you know, maybe three, four days a week, and she lost all that weight out of nowhere. That was my first time I've seen the effects of cortisol and how how that can just sit there and work against you. And you know putting seven days a week on it. Two workouts a day isn't gonna isn't gonna do anything until you solve that problem.

Philip Pape  30:09

Hey, this is Philip. And I hope you're enjoying this guest interview on Wits & Weights. If you're finding it valuable, you can get a bonus conversation we recorded. If you're on our email list, just go to wits & weights.com/bonus or click the link in the show notes. Insiders on our email list will get a link to the bonus conversation where my guest will give you the exact steps to take related to one of the topics in today's episode. Again, these conversations are only available if you're on our free email list. To get the bonus exclusive content with today's guest, just go to wits & weights.com/bonus, or click the link in the show notes. Now back to the show.

Brad Williams  30:51

So that was more on that side. And then for stress as far as pain, you know, I went through that chronic pain for sciatica, I don't know how bad yours was Phil, but mine, you know, I got to level 10 And then had to start counting by 10s, I got to like level 70 pain like I would have rather put my hand on a frying pan for 10 seconds, if you would have taken my back pain away. And recovering from all that still having issues and I met someone that helped me with a breathing process called diaphragmatic. Breathing. We're basically just you know, the people call it like belly breathing too. But learning how your nervous system if you can calm that down. It's not just your cortisol levels, but it's just your nervous system as well. Calming that down. And with within three days of doing this style breathing, like 70% of my paying gone. So it's just the power of using these systems properly optimizing them, you got to know about them. First of all, like I've gone down. I've been doing this for a while interviewing tons of guests. I'm sure you have as well. And you just keep learning and finding out new tricks and trade. You know, I thought I never thought I knew everything about personal training, I thought was really good until you meet people more. So

Philip Pape  32:03

it's true. Yeah, when they're specializing. I mean, stress is one of those. It's funny because I'm putting together a podcast episode just on stress for the new year. Because of that, I think this episode might come out after that. But anyway, it's like a hidden like you said, it's this hidden insidious thing that's working against you. And it's probably the one pillar of all the nutrition and training pillars. It's like most nebulous Yeah, exactly. Right. Like eat sleep, you get sleep, it's like hours and do your sleep hygiene, right? training, nutrition, all that's pretty straightforward. With stress, it's like, okay, what do I do, you know, like, you can't necessarily eliminate sources of stress in your life, although that is one way to do it. But it's also how you cope with it. So like these breathing exercises, and things like that are great. I wish there was a kind of a prioritized or kind of simple approach for most people on what to do first. But I don't think it works that way. Because in reality, everyone's going to glom onto something different, right? Like, if you told me to, if you told me to meditate, I'm gonna say go pound sand. It's not my thing. You know, but if you said go for a walk, and then, okay, I got it, I can do that, you know, like, so we got to meet people where they're at. Exactly.

Brad Williams  33:09

You know, for me, I found after I learned this breathing, you know how boring it is to sit there, you know, and I want to meditate. You know, I'd knocked out two birds with one stone, you know, we'll talk about, you know, I've referenced counting your micro minerals, not just your macro minerals, and we can talk about that. But vitamin D was a huge deficit for me and taking care of that was a huge one. So I Married those two together. So I do my belly breathing, while I'm sitting out there getting some sun so I get some vitamin D. So bam, I enjoy it. I love it. I'm not really meditating. I'm almost like kind of fallen asleep. But you know, I'm getting benefit from both. So it's just finding the systems and routines that are working for you. Yeah,

Philip Pape  33:45

the habit stacking that's, that's always really good. Okay, so mental health is another thing I wanted to ask about, sort of tied to that because, you know, at least the more I learned and talk to experts, I'm sure you have as well we see how linked physical health is with mental health to the extent that I've seen people who suffer from anxiety and depression for their whole life. And they just introduce some sort of fitness routine and it starts to improve their mental physical health. What was your experience with that, especially as we get older, you know, and again, the stress probably is tied into that a lot of women I noticed have issues with like anxiety and depression. So what are your thoughts on that?

Brad Williams  34:22

I've seen different things from all walks of life and people on on working on that and finding it in different things. Some people find it in supplements, some people find it through nutrition, I'm one of those people and we talked about that what some were just getting more sunlight a ton of them were you know, finally moving and getting the endorphins and all those hormones from working out. And you know, some people didn't like circuit training and weight training, and that's what I offered. So okay, well, you know, go ride a bike or go do this or go do it outside and something but for most people, it's just know that you have an issue. Know that, you know, maybe there's something out There are some people that there's just no hope you'd ever want to say that, you know, work with your health and wellness professionals on that, that maybe you need more crazy drugs or whatever. But just don't give up. That's the biggest thing. So, you know, being a personal trainer, I'm sure you're the same way we just we get to know clients, we kind of almost become a therapist, at some point, we don't want to give too much direct advice. But what I always give is, I mean, we know this is an issue, this is probably some of the reasons we're not getting the results we want. You got to you got to start searching for answers for this. And you know, I've got some suggestions. I'm not a therapist, I'm not a doctor. But you know, you've heard these things, start looking for it. And just write write in your journal, okay, I tried this, I tried that, you know, I tried a different type of workout, I wouldn't got some sun and don't give up. And, you know, one of the things that I had issues with, from pretty much sixth grade all the way to, you know, my first year in college was very mild, the semi severe depression. I don't know about anxiety, but I suffered through depression. And you know, people who have depression will never let anyone in the whole world know that they have. And, you know, I was one of those people, until finally, as I just can't do this anymore, you start you start looking and not really looking for help, some people need that, but I just never wanted to devote that to anybody. I just went down rabbit holes and went on YouTube, and, you know, listen to experts on podcasts and started trying out different stuff. And lo behold, you know, I find peace with changing my nutrition up and go and more on a Keto low carb diet. And, you know, I never preached that to anybody because there's no diet, that's for everybody. It's what works for you. And then I, you know, we try that with different clients and find what works. But for me, you know, ever since I did that, within less than a week, all my depression, you know, and other issues gone. And it's been like that for I think, six years now. Not once Is it ever reverted back. I mean, that's just tells you that, that doesn't mean my story is gonna be the exact same for someone else. But just, you know, just don't give up, you got to try different stuff never stop. That's

Philip Pape  37:07

the principle I think you that people want to grasp onto is looking for answers and taking control of your health. In my community, we talk a lot recently about gaslighting, especially for women in health care. And, you know, I want to have some peeps of women on my show to talk about that. But it really applies to everyone in that no one else is gonna give you that answer. And even if you have a coach like us, even if you have a doctor, they may not be the person who has the answer. At the end of the day, you have take control and I like to tie it back to the journal and really understanding the correlations in the data between this stuff. Because I've seen very simple things like taking ashwagandha right like I noticed a lot of all of a sudden somebody was in just a woman who was in a terrible mood for two years and felt like like it was a hormonal nine it could be hormonal but started taking a little bit Asha gone and it all went away it's like just from that Yeah, wow, something was deficient and it's somehow helped regulate right and you know, it's hard to figure out what it is so don't assume other people are

Brad Williams  38:03

gonna know or be and you know take take everything with a grain of salt and you know find that people that are kind of vibing with you that have helped you but you know, I have seen doctors research scientists on both sides all attacking each other that know my ways the best way there but otherwise, it's like endless is you can go on a you know, social media rabbit hole like looking at this stuff. And then all the trolls that are commenting attacking each other. Oh, yeah, mine is just like, Okay, I understand that side. That's what they're worried about. And my my side that I kind of believe in, okay, maybe I should not go overboard. So in life, my thing is, you know, find things that work for you. And just do stuff in moderation. Like if you're worried about, you know, I just recently started getting into cold plunging and I saw some doctor renowned doctor on tick tock that was talking about how the heart medical Heart Association doesn't recommend it. And you know, what, why would you go against them? Yeah, I just had a person, a doctor, medical doctor on my podcast three weeks ago, that basically was just trash talking the medical Heart Association and how he has friends on the board, and how they were talking about how they just discovered that they've just totally effed cholesterol and everything about it, but they can't let the world know about it. So it's like this is what's happening behind closed doors. So, I mean, we can only do the best we can do I bet you like 100 500 years from now, we're doing everything wrong. But you know, for now, we just kind of work with what's working.

Philip Pape  39:25

But you talk about being a detective early on in this podcast, and N equals one like experiment on yourself when it comes out. And when you when you talk about trying keto, or going to keto to help when I hear people going to carnivore help. I'm like, you know, there's some truth there. So what is the truth? We need to uncover that and for an individual that could be you know, you just change something that was negative detrimental for you. You've gotten out of the way by going to XYZ, whatever it is, it's keto. Now maybe it's not the same thing that's gonna help somebody else go to their thing. But try it. That's cool. Try it out. Like I've had clients who did carnivore a bunch of things. He's got resolved, right, like gut issues and other stuff got resolved. But then we got them out back to a more balanced diet. And they were still okay. Because we identified okay, it was a couple of things that that were in there that were toxic to you. You know what I mean? So that that's, I think, a reasonable approach to take here, not just assume this is the answer. Exactly.

Brad Williams  40:16

And even for myself, like I've even modified back down the other way, from hardcore keto, to basically just a low carb diet, and I'm able to sustain everything, all the benefits that I had before. And it just works with my lifestyle, but

Philip Pape  40:31

your intolerance is I can see how it'd be like, You got to be careful of like, which which is causing the issue. Exactly.

Brad Williams  40:36

So I think no matter what diet anyone's on, or regimen or anything, you know, just, you know, I think everyone across the board knows that movement is good. You know, drink clean water cleaner water, if you can mineralized water, if you can, you know, non processed foods, almost everyone's on the same page on that. But I think once we get past that platform, you know which direction you should take, that's where all the fighting is happening. So you just kind of got to find it through your own journey.

Philip Pape  41:01

Yeah, and just again, to allude, for the listeners, we're gonna have a little conversation, that's a bonus bonus episode to the email list about one of these controversial topics. So maybe it's intermittent fasting, we'll see. Okay, so one more thing about nutrition is the micros right? Not just kept tracking calories and macros but also micros, potassium, calcium, magnesium, so on? What are your thoughts on that? What What should people track what's important for those over 40? You know, what's, what's your approach there?

Brad Williams  41:28

Yeah, so I came across more of that. Another guest that came on my show was just nerded out on all these micro minerals and all the benefits and no, I knew some I didn't really come from an education on that, but you know, I get my bloodwork done, my doctor tells me I need to, you know, increase my calcium, increase my vitamin D, all that kind of stuff, but no, to really optimize it. And so you got to be careful there because you never know what conditions people have always gotta throw out there. You'll do this with your doctor. That's what I did. You know, I found a doctor that vibes with me that's more kind of a little bit on the holistic side and, you know, have a frame of reference to bounce stuff off. And then if he Okay, is it then I do some of the stuff I want to do. But basically, this guest that was on my show just said, you know, start counting your micro minerals and you know, he everyone believes that different RDA or where it should be. I just said let's play it safe. Let's just Google RDA is what's out there and the Medical Association. And he said you'll, you'll be surprised that you'll be very deficient in some of these minerals. Number one being potassium, okay, let's check it out. I was deficient in calcium deficient magnesium severely deficient in potassium, just like he said, high in sodium, even though I was sitting there trying my best to keep that down. And you really the thing was, you didn't really need to watch sodium too much. If you had potassium high enough to match that sodium. Well, your body works great. And he was right on that. But the other one was vitamin D. Like I mentioned before, I'm a cave dweller. I live in gyms. I don't go out ever in the sun, you know, hardly ever. And now that I do more podcasting, it's even worse. So, you know, I had to get a routine with going outside getting some sun and then supplement the rest. Right? And so

Philip Pape  43:05

how did you hold on how did how did you test all this? Was it like with hair with just blood bloodwork bloodwork?

Brad Williams  43:10

Yeah, it'll it'll show your vitamin D or calcium, magnesium, potassium, all the other ones I don't really test for but I just I basically made a graph took all the RDA is of all the all the vitamins, all the minerals. And then I discovered a cool website, when I'm trying to sit here and you know, use trackers to find all the stuff and I'd I'd see all these popular trackers, I can't remember the most popular one. But you know, it was more of a brain for users to update stuff. And they would totally just skip putting all the the micros in, they would only do the macros, right? Right? So you didn't know how much potassium calcium phosphorus was in any of this food. So a cool website that I found was eat this much.com. And basically, you could take every single raw food on this planet. And it would tell you all the macros and micros for being in the raw form or cooked because it does change and it does matter. So I started doing that and just nerd it out and made a whole graph on it. And that's how I discovered oh my god, my potassium is next to nothing. And had some other issues too. And sure enough, I started working on that food first and then supplement if you need to sell more bananas. Yeah. Well, on my Keto world, I can't have stuff like that. So I have a use for avocados and a little bit of coconut water and stuff like that. And green and green veggies. So after I started doing that all sudden, I just noticed a lot of bloat. You know I've always teetered around single digit body fat, but my goal is I want to be able to get back to but yet still having a social life right. And that's that's been the struggle being over 40 Well, I noticed about three pounds of waterway kicked off just by increasing my potassium right there because that's, that's what potassium and sodium do just do a dance with each other so sodium will hold more water in your cells or in your skin attack. sem will pull it intersect intracellularly into your cells and any excess it'll expel out. So already benefits from that. I felt better in the gym because potassium was plays a big role in your electrical components of your muscles and just felt amazing. So that was another thing I really started pushing on clients, you know, be careful, I couldn't really write anything for them. I don't have the degrees to do that. But just put it on their radar. So, you know, that's all I do is just start, like you said, find the detective and trying to find the deficiencies or, or things that can get them to start looking at.

Philip Pape  45:34

Yeah, I think that's great. Especially especially if you have a diet that is restricting something right? Like, whether it is a Keto or vegan for sure. vegans are probably the most at risk of certain deficiencies that may be found mostly in animal products, not not, I mean, you could pretty much get everything from plants to I get it, but it's harder, it's a lot harder. So tracking these in some way. I like that eat this much.com The app that we use on my clients whose macro factor also can track your, your, your macros macros, okay, be aware of it, because some, like you said, it's like stress, it can be hidden in there some deficiency going on, and that's behind a lot of us like poor sleep. Maybe it's magnesium. Just you just don't know. Yeah, that's another one. Yeah. All right. I want to I want to reserve some time. I think one more. One or two more questions here. One, one was from the community, what about very much older individuals like wishing their 60s and 70s? In terms of muscle gain, like, what can they? What can they expect, if let's say they're just getting into it. Now they're training, they're using progressive overload, you know, anything different, there's really the same principles.

Brad Williams  46:37

Same principles, but just know that as you're getting older, the one thing is injuries that are recovery time getting older, is so much setbacks, it can't happen. I mean, right now, I'm 43. And it can't happen. Imagine, you know, my mom is going through osteoporosis, she's, I think she's turning 70 today, actually. And she's going through that she literally just broke her hand, doing some landscaping, a very soft fall, and she put her hand out broke both her bones in her forearm, like, unbelievable. So that's kind of a thing that we're going to be working on. And she's always been standoffish with working out in strength training, but God that's, it's so great. You're building up bones and all that, yeah, and also calcium playing a big part. But you got to you got to worry about these things. And, you know, that's why I kind of revert back to my doing more time under tension, you can cut half the weight down, you can still progressive overload, because, you know, cut the weight down. As long as you can get the four to six seconds doing everything slow, like I've been talking about, and you can go up in weight go up and wait. There's nothing saying you can't do that. And you might still be able to get to the weights that you were doing before. You know, there's, there's all these theories of you know, that that eccentric contraction or doing negatives, gives you get to that ability to recruit more muscle fibers to get you stronger for your other lifts. But I would still, you know, slow down and watches as you age for those types of injuries. And one of the cool things that I've seen in my life for individuals who have like osteoporosis, and that kind of stuff is, remember power plates when those were big? Yeah. So now there's all these different companies that have like, you know, come in the market that cut the price down. But, you know, the whole theory behind the power plate is, you know, it's using G force, by, you know, moving up and down, left and right back and forward to a certain frequency. And it's been shown that, you know, it's like putting you on Mars or a different planet with there's a little bit more gravity. And you can do simple bodyweight movements with no weights, and get just as great as results if you're using 2030 pound weights. And I've seen that and one of my clients bought a machine for his wife, and she started reversing her, her score, whatever the score was for osteoporosis going the other way. So that's what we're, I'm trying to work on with my mom now, because she's not a huge fitness buff. She doesn't want to go to the gym. All right, I'll train her for free or this. Yeah, for sure. But if I can get her on there for 10 minutes a day, and literally just hold a squat, that's it, you don't have to do anything else. You there's benefit in that. So that's, that's going back to that theory of don't give up find something that's going to work for that client. Love

Philip Pape  49:15

it. No, but the idea of that it takes longer to recover is definitely important, especially if you're getting into it, you still have that level of frailty or fragility. I mean, I definitely seen dudes in their 70s, who have been training for 10 years, and they're, they're stronger than me. And you know, they're fine, probably. But this recovery is still slower for other reasons. Okay, last thing, is there a question you wish I had asked? I know, maybe there's some topics we intended to get to and didn't but is there some burning question you wish I'd asked? And then what is your answer?

Brad Williams  49:43

Tough one. I mean, we're gonna we're gonna kind of talk about maybe fasting in the next little segment, or whatever it is. I'm real big on that whole longevity things. So, a lot. I think I've really gotten into that in the last year, year and a half talking all these experts and just seeing cool Old plunging, doing more sauna type red light therapy, no everything's about stressors and in my life, you know, I understand that. That's the whole business of working out and stressing the body to repair itself. And we knew as personal trainers, like, it's not just how much weight you lift, it's, you know, volume two. And it's not just about destroying muscle fibers or they repair themselves, it's about getting the stimulus to trick your hormones into fixing this problem of being under this stress. So now, I'm starting to see that, you know, longevity is a big thing too. And bodybuilding looks great. But at that high elite level, there's nothing longevity about smashing 300 grams of protein every day, destroying your body like that. When all the signs for longevity says we should probably not be working, you know, all this stuff. So

Philip Pape  50:49

bright, low protein don't work out calorie restriction, all that same thing,

Brad Williams  50:53

it comes back to where do you fit in all this and for me, and my podcast, I want to be that middle ground, the liaison between all those research scientists that are putting out all these things on longevity and other research on worms and mice. And these are the longevity supplements you should be taking or cold plunge and all that, but also seen how they look and move. No, I want to I want to have a little bit more muscle mass and you know, feel like a man and still have my personal training. So I kinda want to be the middle ground and doing a little bit of both, though, you

Philip Pape  51:25

know, I also cannot avoid making that, that declaration that these guys just they look like they're about to just break in half and fall over have some disease. And you're telling me to live out if you have to live long, like that. Forget

Brad Williams  51:39

wasn't paying. Yeah. So I was talking to my brother about this. And he's like, my, one of my goals is to make it the 120 I want to be a guy 120 Still, with some decent size and all that. And he's like, you know, who's got the record? And it's like a, you know, some guy in Asia or I think it was a Chilean mountain man made it to like 133 that's just what's recorded, who knows what happened in the past and all that. And then I pulled up a picture of him showing my brother and he's like, shoot me by ever. Yeah. So that's, that's the other problem is I want to look good and, and be functionally fit not just my organs inside this body that's worried by the sun and wilderness. Alright, so

Philip Pape  52:19

on that positive note? No, I'm just kidding. On that, no, no, this has been awesome. Man. This is a really good conversation. And I want listeners to know where to find you. Obviously, there's the podcasts or 40 Fitness hacks, podcasts that they can subscribe to or follow right now because they're listening to the show. Where else can they find you? Yeah, so that

Brad Williams  52:36

podcast and basically just my website over 40 Fitness hacks.com. And it's for zero not spelled out 40. And pretty much those are my main three, I don't do a whole lot of social media. Even though I am on Twitter. The best is just the hit my website and I have a contact form on there, and just shoot me an email.

Philip Pape  52:52

That's one way to keep stress down Stance. Okay, so I'll definitely put those in the show notes. Of course, so listeners can find you, Brad, this has been a really fantastic conversation. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with me and coming on the show. Yeah, thanks

Brad Williams  53:05

for having me, Philip. It's been a pleasure.

Philip Pape  53:09

Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights. Please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong.

Ep 142: 5 Foolproof Strategies to Hit Your Macros and Finally Master Fat Loss

Are you struggling to hit your macro targets on an almost daily basis? Is your protein too low or fats and carbs too high during a fat loss phase, making it difficult to hit your target calories without somehow being off-balance or going over?

Today, Philip  (@witsandweights ) reveals five easy-to-follow techniques to help you consistently hit your daily macros! By following these strategies, you can ensure that you meet your macro goals and optimize your nutrition to support your fitness and health goals. 

Today, you’ll learn all about:

0:00 Intro
3:46 A client shares what strategy worked for them
6:28 Balance the bars
10:30 Copy your best days
13:44 Fill in gaps with protein powder
15:54 Smart swaps
18:15 Use AI-generated meal plans
23:16 Outro

Episode Resources:

• Download my free Ultimate Macros Guide and High-Protein Recipe Pack

• MacroFactor app – use code WITSANDWEIGHTS to extend your free trial to two weeks

Episode summary:

The journey to achieving fitness goals is often intertwined with mastering the art of meal preparation and understanding the nuances of macronutrient tracking. It's a path that requires not just knowledge but also strategic planning and consistent effort. Our latest podcast episode provides listeners with five essential tactics that are foundational to anyone looking to sculpt their physique, whether the goal is fat loss or muscle gain.

Embarking on this transformative journey requires one to develop a reliable system for hitting macro targets. It's not merely about knowing what macros are but being able to apply practical methods to ensure daily dietary success. One such strategy discussed is the concept of 'balance the bars', which involves keeping a close eye on your macronutrient intake throughout the day and making adjustments as needed to ensure you're on track.

Another key tactic is the use of a meal template based on previous successful days. This approach helps alleviate the dinnertime decision fatigue that many face and streamlines the diet by replicating what has already worked. This replication not only simplifies meal planning but also reinforces the habit of healthy eating, making it more sustainable in the long run.

Protein intake is a critical component of any fitness-focused diet, and the podcast delves into how a simple addition of protein powder can help meet daily targets. This strategy is not only efficient but also eliminates the complexity of meal preparation, especially for those with busy lifestyles. Protein powder becomes an easy solution, and when consumed with meals, it can help balance out the macronutrient profile of the day.

Smart swaps are another tool in the arsenal for those seeking to master their diet. The podcast highlights how cravings can be managed through smart substitutions, offering a flexible approach to dieting. Instead of seeing cravings as setbacks, they become opportunities to make better choices without feeling deprived.

Finally, the episode discusses the revolutionary impact of artificial intelligence on meal planning. With AI, the creation of meal plans can be tailored to individual macro targets, making it easier for anyone to achieve nutritional balance. This innovative approach leverages technology to make meal planning more efficient and less daunting.

As the podcast episode unfolds, listeners are not only provided with actionable advice but also the encouragement to reach out for personalized guidance if needed. The episode is a testament to the host's commitment to helping listeners navigate their fitness journey with clarity and confidence.

In conclusion, the journey to achieving your macro goals and mastering meal prep is an ongoing process that requires both dedication and a willingness to employ new strategies. The five tactics discussed in the podcast serve as a roadmap to dietary success, providing listeners with the tools they need to take control of their nutrition and ultimately, their health.

By incorporating these strategies into your daily routine, you can simplify the complexities of meal planning and macro tracking. The end goal is not just to achieve a balanced diet but to foster a lifestyle that promotes optimal health and well-being. The podcast episode stands as a valuable resource for anyone ready to transform their diet and elevate their fitness journey.

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Transcript

Philip Pape  00:00

Are you struggling to hit your macro targets on an almost daily basis, maybe protein is too low, or fats and carbs are too high during a fat loss phase, making it difficult to hit your target calories without somehow being off balance or going over. Today, I'm revealing five foolproof strategies to hit your macros consistently. Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host, Philip Pape. And this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger, optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition. We'll uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry. So you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in Wits & Weights

Philip Pape  00:49

community Welcome to another solo episode of the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host, Philip Pape. And in our last episode 141 Why I'm getting fluffy before I get jacked. I discussed the emotions that you might feel about your body when gaining weight to build muscle and getting a little fluffy on the way I shared my personal journey regarding body image and strategies to help you navigate these challenges. Today for episode 142 Five foolproof strategies to hit your macros. And finally master fat loss, we are diving into the art of macro tracking for effective fat loss, you will learn five foolproof strategies to accurately hit your macro targets, which is an essential skill to develop when you first start tracking, whether it's during the initial awareness stage, or going after a goal like fat loss or building muscle. Now my goal for this episode is to include some strategies that you may not have thought of, but are some that I commonly recommend to my clients. And the fun thing about this podcast is occasionally I think of topics that are really annoying people every day when they reach out to me, things that are should be simple, should be foundational, and yet they get stuck. And the purpose of this podcast is to get you the information you need to get to that foundational skill level, you know, I want you to be able to be training and eating the way you want for your goals, tracking for awareness, all the things we talked about here, before you would ever think about picking up the phone for coaching from me because my goal is not to take you from zero to 80. It's to take you from 80 to 95 or 99. And what I mean by that is I value action takers. I'm an action taker, I love to try to do it myself early on, and build some of those basic skills. And that's why as a coach, I'm not big into recipes and meal plans and things like that. I'm more about helping you go from good to great and optimize the things you've already started to do. So for example, when people when people reach out to me, they're already doing pretty good, and somewhat consistent with things. But now they want to go to the next level to get to that 95 99%. So the fun thing about some of these episodes is they give you all the information for free on how to build those basic foundational skills. And when I hear that people are frustrated in a particular area. As with some of these basics of macro tracking, this is the perfect way to get you those answers. So earlier this week, a client sent me a message after we had used one of these strategies to help with meal planning. Because in my weekly check in one of the questions I asked is, What are your wins for the week? I asked about your momentum builders your lessons. And rather than say, here's how you should do it. I like to ask clients, how would you do it or given the different options I've given you? What is the one that works best for you in your life and your lifestyle, very personal approach because we want it to be sustainable. So here's what she said, quote, clearly, it's easier if I plan a day ahead, what I think I'm going to eat, I'm not one of those people that has to eat with a feel in the moment. So it's very doable, I just have to put time into it for the whole day, instead of just one meal. I did enjoy cooking some chicken breasts and flavored them really nicely. Working from home, it's sometimes hours before I think of eating because there's no one to eat with or nowhere to go. It's very satisfying to plan the meals a day before and see the totals and know that it's going to be better than winging it. Now, this is basic meal planning. And she had already had lots of success, this client with tracking and shifting HER protein and strength training. And she wanted me to work with her because there was just some some nagging areas that were keeping her stuck and preventing her from fully optimizing exactly what she wanted to be where she wanted to be on a consistent basis. And so I helped her use some very simple strategies and hacks to track better and this was meal planning specifically, which is one of the strategies I'm going to talk about today, but I'm going to mention one Very simple hack to make it easy. And she used that, to take it forward. So I'm gonna give that to you for free today. Like anything else, it's a skill. And if you're feeling overwhelmed, even after listening to this episode, and you want a few personalized ideas, just like I shared about my client, just reach out and set up a free call with me, use the link in my show notes for a 30 minute results breakthrough session, and we're just going to hop on a zoom and answer your questions. More importantly, I think is we're going to get you clarity on the next steps so that you can make progress. So you might be stuck not sharing where to go, not sure where to go next. On that call, it's just you and me, you know, no selling no pitching. And by the way, I'm a pretty friendly and compassionate guy to talk to. So it's the same guy you hear on this podcast. So if you if you like what you hear, it's the same thing. If you don't, then you know, I get it, no hard feelings. So if if you're nervous if you're intimidated about having a call with me for some reason, just remember, I'm a fellow human with the same dreams, the same struggles. And what you learn on this show is what you get in real life. So I invite you to click the link in my show notes to set up that free call. I always have spots available, I keep my calendar open, and then I add new ones as needed. You could also go to wits & weights.com, and click free call at the top and set that up. Okay, let's dive into today's topic. Five foolproof strategies to hit your macros. And finally master fat loss. Here we go. The first strategy is what I call balance the bars. If you use macro factor or another nutrition app, I don't know why you would use another app. But let's just go with Matt macro factor for now. If you don't use it, what are you waiting for? Maybe this is the first time you've ever heard of it, because it's the first episode you listen to. You're really lucky then because I'm envious of you for having heard about macro factor for the first time. Go download it. I'll include the link in the show notes, use my code, Wits &, Weights all one word, to get an extra week on the free trial, it's going to change your life as far as nutrition tracking goes. And by the way, the comments I mentioned earlier about helping you go from 80% to 95, or 99%. Most of my clients are already using macro factor before they start working with me, because I've mentioned it to them and they follow the podcast. And they want to set up that initial awareness. But whether you are or you're not, it's a game changer. So in macro factor when you go to your food log, and you tap the macros at the top, it takes you to a screen called nutrition overview. And on the nutrition overview screen, you can see a lot of things you can see your micronutrients. And you can see your macros, of course, you and it shows you the information for today. You can also view averages for the last few weeks, months, and so on. But just for today, you could see where your macros stand in terms of percentages. So carbs, protein, fat, or I should say fat, or protein, fat carbs and that order. And it will tell you what percentage of each relative to your target you've eaten so far. So there are little horizontal bars, I think of them almost like runners in a race. I wish there was little like, you know, turtle and tortoise and some other animal on the three bars. But you're trying to keep them in line throughout the day, your goal is to keep them more or less in sync, and then adjusting the ones that are farther behind to help them catch up in the race. And I know that sounds kind of trivial, but it really isn't. Because how many times have you gone through the day, and it's now mid afternoon or maybe approaching dinner. And all of a sudden, you have been logging your food, but you haven't really been paying attention to the relative percentages necessarily. And you notice that one macro is far behind, maybe it's carbs, maybe it's protein, for a lot of you it's protein, fats are usually not the issue. And honestly, in my opinion, fats can just land wherever and if they're behind, they're behind, I don't even worry about it. I worry more about carbs and protein, unless you as an individual are the type of person that just avoids fats at all costs. And we need to get more fat in your diet. But that's pretty rare. So what I often see is you fall behind on protein, or if you're in a gaining phase, right? If you're trying to build muscle, you might be falling behind on carbs. That's that's pretty common. That's what's going on with me. Now, during a fat loss phase, it's usually protein. So you look at the percentages, and it's very simple. Balance the bars, when you have breakfast, balanced the bars. Let's say they're not balanced on your next snack or meal. Pick, pick foods that balanced the bars, pick foods that take the ones that are falling behind and helps them catch up. So if protein is behind, then that's your priority for the next meal. If carbs are behind, that's the priority for the next meal. So it's a quick visual takes two seconds, you click on it, check out where you are, okay, you know, proteins behind and we gotta get on top of that. And there you go. The visual tracking aspect of it. There's actually there's research that supports it being a an enhancer to adherence and you know, sticking With things, I just think it's convenient and quick, so it takes less time. And I'm always a fan of things that take less time, rather than trying to figure out the numbers, right? The other thing is by looking at it as relative percentages, you don't have to think in terms of grams necessarily just know that one is behind, and you need more of it. So treat it as this fun daily challenge balanced the bars, and even low in protein at lunch plan, a protein rich dinner, and you'll be all set. Okay, so that's strategy number one. Strategy number two. Now, I don't have fancy names for all these strategies. Strategy number two is just to copy your best days. So this is the meal planning strategy. That's similar to what I used with my client who I quoted earlier. And all you have to do is go find a previous day, when everything just clicked, and you hit your macro targets effortless lessly. You know, you call them an eye, the ideal day or your lucky day or your perfect day. I mean, there's no such thing as perfect. But in terms of quantitative numbers, it's the day that got pretty darn close to what your intended on a daily basis. And now that's a blueprint, that's a blueprint for future success. Now, of course, it should be a relatively routine day that you can easily replicate, as opposed to some oddball, you know, you're on vacation and went, and just everything clicked in that way, a routine day, and all you're going to do is replicate it as a meal plan. That's all you're going to do. It's a template, you've got the confidence, he did it before. So now you could do it again. And now this is your template for a new successful day.

Philip Pape  11:35

Hey, this is Philip. And I hope you're enjoying this episode of Wits & Weights, I started Wits & Weights to help people who want to build muscle lose fat and actually look like they lift. I've noticed that when people improve their strength and physique, they not only look and feel better, they transform other areas of their life, their health, their mental resilience and their confidence in everything they do. And since you're listening to this podcast, I assume you want the same things the same success, whether you recently started lifting, or you've been at this for a while and want to optimize and reach a new level of success. Either way, my one on one coaching focused on engineering your physique, and body composition is for you. If you want expert guidance and want to get results faster, easier, and with fewer frustrations along the way to actually look like you lift, go to wits & weights.com, and click on coaching, or use the link in my show notes to apply today. I'll ask you a few short questions to decide if we're a good fit. If we are, we'll get you started this week. Now back to the show. The advanced tip to take this to the next level, of course, is pre planned tomorrow, right now, based on that template and pre log your food, you know in macro factor or whatever tool you're using pre log it and treat that as a meal plan. Right. That's your personal meal plan based on what you like to eat. Because you've done it before, not because I as your coach or some template online is giving you a meal plan. Alright, so there you go. If you're busy, if you have a busy week, if you lose track of time, if you forget to plan out your day, you've already got your plan in your back pocket. It's any successful day you've had in the past. Just go back and repeat it. And if it was recent, chances are you have similar foods in the house. Maybe if it's even something you prepped, go after it. That's it. It can be so powerful to simply give yourself a plan for the next day and relieve all that decision fatigue and all that stress and just execute and guess what, if you don't do it perfectly, it's fine, you're gonna get close. And as you're going through, you can make swaps it's fine, but at least you've got a template to work from rather than a black hole of uncertainty. All right, strategy number three is to fill in your gaps with protein powder. Alright, protein powder is a versatile tool. It is not I don't really consider it a processed food. It's a minimally processed food. I also don't consider it a supplement per se because it is food. It's not like you're trying to kind of have a shortcut by filling in your nutrient gaps with with a pill. It's just food it's just processed from milk, or it's ground up you know P and rice in terms of a vegan powder. And when you when you fill in the gaps of protein powder, you have a quick and easy decision ready to go and you're gonna hit your protein. One way I like to do this I think I heard this on mind pump a while back is to add a half scoop or even a full scoop to a glass of water and drink that with every meal. Just make that your drink with your meal. Instead of thinking of it as like separate protein shakes, or whatnot. The other thing that holds people up is they're trying to make these fancy shakes. They're like protein powder and yogurt and Pete You know, peanut butter powder and some cocoa powder and then we add a little bit of sweetener or maybe a banana. They get complicated and thinking that protein powder can only deliver heard in that way, guess what, a nicely flavored protein powder and throw it in water, you go the down, it tastes pretty good, super easy. Get a blender bottle, shake it up, you're fine. Or mix it with almond milk, which has almost no calories, but has that creaminess of more creaminess like milk. There you go super easy, don't make it more complicated. Alright, so we know how important it is to get protein, I'm assuming that your protein target is sufficient for muscle building, and you're listening to the show. That's a whole nother topic is what the macros need to be. We're not covering that today, plenty of other episodes that I can point you to for that. But getting enough protein, there's all sorts of ways we do it. Adding that half scoop to a glass of water and drinking out with every meal is a quick way to add in what half scoop has like 15 or so grams. So that's, that's three meals, that's 45 more grams of protein right there. Okay, strategy number four is smart swaps, right? Flexibility. We're all about flexibility and adaptability. And that means that even if you do have a meal plan, it can change, that's fine. If you're craving something, find a similar food that satisfies the craving, for example. All right, so an example would be, you have a sweet tooth. So go for a really sweet fruit, like strawberries. In a fat loss phase strawberries are amazing, because they are these big, juicy, you know, plump, sweet, I mean, almost tastes like there's just sugar coming out of them. And yet, amazingly, they have very few calories, you know, you could have a huge bowl of strawberries for like 100 calories, they're full of water, so they fill you up, they have fiber of all the things and and they satisfy your hunger and they satisfy your sweet tooth. Right. And so now, I just went off on a tangent because the point of this, the point of the strategy is for macro balance, right, we're talking about how to hit your macros. So my point here was swapping one food for another that has a different macro makeup, even though it's a similar food, okay, and that could be like if you're going to have ice cream. And I don't know if these are the best examples in my notes, I actually didn't put down examples how to think of somebody ice cream, which is mostly fat and sugar, fat and carbs, right from the from the milk, and sweet sweeteners and whatever other ingredients, and you swap it for a protein like a casein protein with almond milk kind of pudding, that's like ice cream. And now all of a sudden, you've gone from fat and carbs all the way over to protein, like that's a huge swap. So the key is to find a similar food. Okay, and similar doesn't have to be like the exact same thing. It could be. You know, it could be chicken breast versus chicken thigh, but it could be quinoa versus rice versus potatoes. It could be ribeye versus sirloin. It could be any mix of any macros that are similar but have a different balance. And usually that balance comes in the form of for example, protein density. So even going from

Philip Pape  17:59

going from cottage cheese, you know, full fat cottage cheese to 1% cottage cheese, or, you know, zero fat. Yogurt, right? So any any swaps that give you a different macro makeup. And this is actually going to lead to my fifth strategy here, which I think you can use for the last one, and that is to use AI generated meal plans. Now, this, you might be like, Wait a minute. So your nutrition coach telling me you use AI generated meal plans? Yeah, cuz I hate making meal plans. I don't know why you like I don't want to make meal plans. I just want to enjoy my food and hit my macros. And as I evolve the food selection that hits my macros, that becomes future meal plans just like step strategy number two, right, copying your best days. But guess what? There's chat GBT and all these other AI tools that I think are, are terrible for certain things. They're terrible for taking away creativity. But they're great for tedious things. And so if you have a certain target for calories, proteins, fats, carbs, you just feed it into the tool and say, create for me an entire day's meal plan of, you know, three meals and one snack to hit these calories and macros. Right and just let it come up with a plan for you. Now you can get more fancy, you could say, you know I have these foods. What meal can I make that meets this macro balance, right? Or? Here's where I am on my macro balance. What can I eat to correct it and make it more balanced? Like I'm behind on my protein? What can I eat? So it takes all the guesswork out. It avoids lots of again, decision fatigue. When things seem daunting, you know, technology can sometimes be helpful in that regard. And before long what's going to happen is you're going to find and gravitate to foods and meals that work for you with that balance and you will become an expert at your own ability to balance everything you will know as soon and I've seen it with the worst cases people who are just way off of what they need to be, they have no idea how they're going to get there. And we take one step at a time. And we start balancing, balancing balancing get closer, closer, closer, and before long, you're getting your 160 grams of protein, you're keeping the fat, modest, and you're getting your carbs, right. And it works. So those are five strategies. Just to recap, number one, balance the bars balance all the macros in your nutrition, overview and macro factor. Number two, copy your best days, use the days when everything clicked as your template for future meal plans. Number three, fill in the gaps of protein powder. One easy hack is to put half a scoop in a glass of water with every meal. Number four, make smart swaps. Find foods that have different macro different macros than the one you are going to have. Because you're trying to get things to be more balanced. And it can be similar food, or it can be a completely different food, but just make a swap. And don't assume you have to stick to the exact plan that you put together for yourself because we want to be adaptable and flexible. And number five, use AI to generate meal plans for you or generate meals or suggest foods or whatever that can fill in those gaps. And that way, if you're working, you know, even if you're working with me if I'm your coach, have I used AI in the backend? Absolutely what I encourage you to use AI for yourself. Absolutely. I'm a big, you know, do it for yourself type of person. My goal is to help you find the resources that work for you. And if you want to, if you don't want to use AI find we're gonna find, you know, five other potential options that will work for you. I've got lists, I've got guides, I've got tables, I've got all that stuff, of course, but we might as well use tools and you know, engineering and systems and all of those to make our lives easier. Why not? There you have it. Alright, five foolproof strategies to hit your macros every time. There are many more out there. Of course, if none of those struck or resonated with you always reach out and ask for more strategies for your specific situation. You can do that by going to our Facebook community. Totally free you join, you use the Ask Phillip thread, which is a weekly live q&a. And you can ask me a question. Also, as mentioned earlier, if you're feeling overwhelmed, even after listening to this episode, and you want a few personalized ideas, just reach out and set up that free call with me. Use the link in my show notes. It's a 30 minute results breakthrough session on Zoom will hop on that Zoom will answer your questions and we'll get you clarity on the next steps. So you can make progress on one human to another making a habit together. Just go to wits & weights.com, like free call and or use the link in my show notes for the free 30 minute results breakthrough session. Okay, so that was a fairly short one. As far as these episodes go. I hope it was helpful to you. Reach out if you have questions or follow ups or other tips. In our next episode 143 unique over 40 workout strategies for more muscle energy and recovery with Brad Williams, you'll learn about effective training styles, managing stress and inflammation and optimizing nutrition and of course practical strategies for maintaining a strong, healthy lifestyle beyond 40. As always, stay strong. And I'll talk to you next time here on the Wits & Weights podcast. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights, please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong

Ep 141: Why I’m Getting Fluffy Before I Get Jacked

Do you struggle with your body image when gaining weight to build muscle? How can you cope with the emotional challenges of getting a little fluffy on the way to your fitness goals?

Today, Philip  (@witsandweights ) gets real and raw about the emotions you might feel about your body when gaining weight to build muscle and getting a little fluffy on the way. Philip shares his journey regarding his body image so that you'll gain some insights and strategies to help you navigate these challenges. Tune in for an honest, heartfelt conversation about embracing strength, inside and out.

Today, you’ll learn all about:

0:00 Intro
3:06 Benefit to building muscle first
6:44 Motivation for building muscle mass
10:26 Women can build muscle
16:29 Your goal and feelings are correct
22:40 Challenges when you're bulking
28:24 Have realistic goals
38:39 Focus on the long-term progress
39:44 Outro

Episode summary:

The pursuit of muscle growth is not just a physical endeavor; it's a complex emotional journey marked by peaks and valleys of mental resilience. As we endeavor to sculpt our bodies, the inevitable weight gain that accompanies muscle building can be a source of internal conflict. Despite knowing the scientific rationale behind the process, the sight of rising numbers on the scale can trigger a torrent of emotions, from doubt to frustration. It's an intricate dance between accepting temporary weight gain and keeping our eyes on the ultimate prize: a stronger, more defined physique.

This emotional landscape is further complicated by societal standards of beauty and fitness. We are constantly bombarded with images of chiseled bodies and lean physiques, setting an expectation that can feel at odds with the bulking phase of muscle development. The pressure can be especially pronounced for women, who face unique challenges in reconciling the desire for strength with the societal ideal of slimness. Yet, it is in the heart of these struggles that the true transformation occurs—not just in the mirror but within the mind itself.

The process of getting 'fluffy' before becoming jacked is not one to be shied away from. It is a strategic cycle that, when embraced, can lead to significant muscle growth and improved body composition. By accepting the discomfort of temporary weight gain, we lay the groundwork for success, whether navigating this journey independently or with the guidance of a coach. As fitness enthusiasts, we must also appreciate the adaptability of our bodies and their capacity to grow stronger, regardless of age or gender.

The psychological side of this journey is equally critical. Overcoming mental barriers involves recognizing that plateaus are natural occurrences in the realm of strength training. The frustration of extended periods of not seeing the desired physical changes can be mitigated by setting performance-driven goals. By focusing on what our bodies can do—lifting heavier weights, performing more repetitions—we shift the emphasis from aesthetics to functionality, fostering a more empowering relationship with our fitness routines.

Adapting to our body's feedback is crucial for progress. When a plateau hits, it may be an indicator that it's time to adjust our strategy. Whether that means increasing caloric intake, enhancing sleep quality, or modifying training variables, such as volume or intensity, these changes can lead to breakthroughs in muscle growth. The key is to remain attuned to the signals our bodies send us and to respond with calculated modifications to our training and nutrition plans.

Finally, addressing body image concerns is a significant aspect of the muscle-building journey. It's essential to set realistic expectations and develop a comprehensive plan to navigate the bulking phase with reduced stress and anxiety. Patience and self-understanding are vital as we come to terms with the idea that gaining a bit of extra fat is a manageable aspect of the process. This acknowledgment empowers us to continue pursuing our goals with confidence and self-compassion.

In essence, the journey to muscle mastery is as much about building mental strength as it is about physical gains. By embracing the full spectrum of emotions that accompany this process, we can emerge not just with a transformed body, but also with a fortified mindset that will serve us well beyond the gym!

Episode Resources:

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Transcript

Philip Pape  00:00

Today we're getting real and raw about the emotions you might feel about your body when gaining weight to build muscle and getting a little fluffy on the way. I'm going unscripted today to share my personal journey regarding my body image, so that you will gain some insights and strategies to help you navigate these challenges. Tune in for an honest heartfelt conversation about embracing strength inside and out. Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host, Philip Pape. And this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger, optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry. So you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in Wits & Weights

Philip Pape  00:53

community Welcome to another solo episode of the Wits &. Weights Podcast. Today I'm doing something completely different. I am going raw, I am going real, I am going mostly unscripted. And by mostly anyone who knows me knows that I could never do something like this completely without thought or planning whatsoever. But I assure you, if you were looking at my notes in front of me, they're extremely minimal. Usually I spend quite a bit of time preparing an outline, references, side notes, quotes, things like that. And today is a little more unscripted. And what I wanted to do was talk about the feelings that I've had and the experience that I've had, while gaining a little extra weight during the muscle building phase. Now there's nothing super unique about this phase, versus the last few times I did this. But these things recur, right, they come up again. And a lot of the things I feel and experience are very common among my clients, and individuals I've spoken to. And they're the fears, a lot of them are fears of those of you who've never gone through muscle building phase before. And this topic comes up time and time again, because we talk about how important it is to build muscle. And yet, if you've got, let's say 20 or 30 pounds to lose, and by that I mean you're kind of carrying a little extra weight, and you don't feel great in your body, and you don't feel comfortable in your clothes. And so you think logically, the next step is to lose weight, even if you do it the quote unquote, right way and lose primarily fat and hold on to muscle. Because you're eating protein, your strength training and all of that, you may still feel like you that's the direction you have to go, because then you'll feel better and you'll be in a good place, and a good level of leanness from which to build muscle. Now, that's not necessarily a false thing, I have had plenty of clients who the first thing we do after the pre diet phase is going into a fat loss phase, who might lose 1015 20 pounds, maybe more if they're bigger, and then build muscle. And we'll tend to work together for maybe 912 months or longer because it takes that much time to go through these full phases. However, if you're not excessively overweight from a health perspective, and you don't mind about being in the body, you're in for a little while longer, I think there's a lot of benefit to building muscle first, just because of the downstream effects of having that extra muscle for your health. But also for your ability to lose fat later and become leaner and get the body you're really going for in the physique you're going for, but possibly at a much higher weight on the scale. In other words, it makes scale weight less important, which is the end goal here because we don't want to be focusing on just that number. Now, I'm saying all this because the biggest fear people have even if they have gone through a fat loss phases, I'm going to gain all this weight back and I'm not going to look great. I'm not going to like my body. And it seems like it's going to take a while because it takes time to build muscle. And the answer is yes, yes, yes. Like those feelings are valid, that you may not love the body or in. But also remember that to get where you want to go requires some trade offs in the meantime, to get something else. And that's something else is the strength and the muscle required to build up that that physique that you're looking for that defined toned, lean whatever physique. So I've come to terms with this over the years. And I was lucky, I was lucky because the first time I ever built muscle properly. And you may have heard me talk about this on other podcasts. I gained a lot of weight in the process because I wasn't tracking my nutrition. And I was just indiscriminately eating and drinking. And by drinking I mean lots of whole milk. In all my shakes, I had whole milk. And I was just eating a lot of food including a lot of processed food, junk food, whatnot. Not a lot of fiber, not a lot of fruits and vegetables, just just maybe with dinner when my wife would cook that for me, but I wouldn't include a lot otherwise, thinking that I just needed to gain tons of mass. Now, on the plus side, I realized how helpful that was to building muscle and strength because all my lifts doubled or tripled in that first that first novice progression I went through. Would they have gone up as much without eating as much I have no Do I haven't gone through it. But I know from working with clients that if you're at maintenance, or if you're not eating in much of a surplus, it's going to be harder, and you are going to build muscle at a slower rate. So having gone through that, and sort of got lucky in that I gained a bunch of weight at the time, not on purpose or not, in spite of my fears, but just because I thought that's what I had to do. And I did it. I realized then oh, no, I wasn't, I wasn't thrilled with how much extra fat I had put on. And that's what led me to my first fat loss phase. And I did that, and that probably took Ooh, 1620, maybe 24 weeks it was it was rather drawn out, because I was kind of learning the ropes at the time, and I didn't have a coach, if you have a coach, you can do it much more efficiently and effectively, with all the plateaus on the way you know how to get through them. But I got through that fat loss phase got down to fairly lean level. And then I went through several muscle building and cutting phases since then, each time learning a ton more about my body, but also realizing that there are patterns that repeat themselves. And one of those is that as I'm gaining weight, when I'm say, four or five months into a six to 12 month building phase, I start to get uncomfortable with my body in several ways, you know, physically and visually. And I've learned to embrace that. Okay. And that's what I'm talking about today. You notice this is totally unscripted, not polished. I'm not I'm not sharing reviews on the podcast, I'm not, you know, giving you a call to action or anything like that just gonna jump right into today's episode. And there's a reason I call it what I'm calling it. And that is why I'm getting fluffy before I get jacked. Okay, that's the name of the episode. You know, my motivation is for wanting to gain weight and muscle mass is to continue to be strong, capable, confident to be able to walk into a room and people kind of turn their heads like, well, that guy is an outlier. To be able to be, you know, the fitness guy on the beach, all of this. And look, I'm in my 40s. I didn't start this until I was almost 40. And some of you are wondering, Well, can I even do this at x age 4045 5055? The answer is yes. If you've never done anything like this, if you've never lifted properly followed your nutrition, gone through cuts or books, or even a proper maintenance phase, you can still do it at any age and get massive progress and results. But the biggest sticking point for so many people is the building muscle phase, because it takes time. And by time, I mean, at least six months. Okay, it takes time. Now, if you were to work with me for, say, six months in my coaching program, and you said, I love this message about building muscle, I'm willing to give it a go, I'm willing to even gain a little fat in the process. But I also want to lose fat, I would first I would say what's most important to you. But then I would say okay, we can actually, we can actually break this up to do both. And we're just going to compress the timelines to be less optimal. So we'll spend probably a month with the with the maintenance phase, getting the habits down to training that consistency, then three months or so. Or maybe even Yeah, three months or so building muscle, okay, and then and then a month and a half or so and fat loss phase. And then we come out of that into maintenance. So you're kind of compressing everything. Now if you have a year to work with, you can think of a year in terms of seasons, and periods of nutrition. And once you've done this a once or twice, you can start to synchronize your muscle building and fat loss phases with the season. And where you're dieting at most, two, maybe three months out of the year, but more likely to and then you're building or maintenance the other 10 months. And the dieting phases are lined up with where you want to become the leanest for the year, which for a lot of people is the summertime, right or the you know, beach weather, the warm weather when you're not wearing as many clothes. So if you think about that timing, that means that 10 months out of the year. So let's say theoretically, from late summer, to the following spring, all through the holidays all through the the Cold War, cold winter months, and when you tend to eat a lot as well. All that time is at least at maintenance calories, or building muscle. And if your goal is to become leaner and develop a better physique and push your PRs in the gym, and train effectively and feel great while doing it all. I'm going to strongly encourage that you build muscle which means you want to be in a calorie surplus. Now that calorie surplus is not going to be massive, it's going to be the the amount of surplus that allows you to gain if you're a male, probably two to three pounds a month. If you're female, probably one to two pounds a month. Now do the math. We're gonna go with females here because I'm gonna be honest, women will make up about two thirds of my client base and probably Be my podcast listeners are also ones that tend to express the most fear about gaining too much weight during this process, I tend to have less men doing that even though some do, because a lot of men are like, Yeah, whatever, I'll just I'll put on the belly. And, you know, there's, there's a little bit of a double standard out there as well, let's be honest of how people are judged for that better or worse perception or not. All of that, okay. And I'm not going to get into the politics of all body image stuff. But where I was going with this is if you're a female, and I say, hey, let's, let's build muscle for 10 months, at, even if it's one pound a month, we'll do the math, that's 10 pounds of weight gain. And if you are, like 150 pound female, that might seem like a lot, like 10 pounds of weight gain is a lot, especially if you think in your head your quote, unquote, ideal weight is, say, 130, well, aren't we going the other direction. And so I'm going to throw in a few caveats to that right to try to convince you but one of those is going to be, you know, of those 10 pounds you gain, if you're a newer, lifter, half of that, or more is going to be muscle, and then you only then have five, or four or five pounds of fat to then lose, which will take no time at all. And now you get into a cycle of like, Okay, that's interesting. So I can be spending most of the year, eating a lot of food, feeling great in the gym, getting stronger, my lists going up, getting more sleep, having less systemic chronic stress, because I have these beautiful, like, acute stressors of being in the gym and lifting heavy. And all of this and my hormones are fully firing in an optimal mode. Are you going to take that right, like and that's, that's part of the sales pitch, so to speak for,

Philip Pape  11:38

of one of the things I'm going to go through throughout this episode is like getting back to focus on on the positives, focusing on the positives of what we're getting out of it. So I might ramble a little bit in the show, but hopefully not because it's just you and me, right? You the listener, me we're having a conversation. Imagine your favorite beverage in your hand or whatever activity you're doing. And just, you know, you know, we're having a conversation and think about the fears and the scenarios that I bring up and whether they relate to you and then what we can do about them. So, back to back to sort of my personal experience with, you've might have seen me or heard me joke about the power belly, I talk about it with my lifting buddies and clients as well, it's usually it's usually guys that are talking about that, and we talk about the power belly. And that is just having more abdominal fat, which men tend to have more abdominal fat, but women tend to have more thighs, but everyone's a little different. And I know for me personally, like the first thing to go when I started gaining weight is my abs. And honestly, I didn't have them for my whole life until a few years ago anyway. So I'm cool with that, knowing that I can get them back. And so the power of belly is just that you're starting to get this app abdominal fat. And correlated with that is your lifts all start going up. And so you're, you're more powerful, you're more strong, you're able to push more, you can think of it as like, Power Lifting belly, right, like, Okay, I've got a power belly, but I'm hitting PRs on my deadlift. So hell yeah. Right. So that it's part of the muscle building process, right? Now, that's not to say that I don't every day, look in the mirror and think, oh, man, I'm like, months away from seeing my abs like, I've got, you know, a saw, I'm saw, right. And we see that about ourselves too soft, I posted a photo of myself doing my best to try to get in just the right angle, and show off a little bit of bicep, where I've got no definition whatsoever, because everything's covered in fat. And if you look at some of the really strong bodybuilders or lifters who've been doing this for many years, when they go into a building phase, if you look at their photos at the end of their phases, they've lost a ton of definition. All right, and you rarely see those photos because it doesn't sell on social media, right? You rarely see those. So the picture that you're fed on social media of people who are jacked and ripped all the time is 100%. False, let's just put it that way that is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of people who look that way first of all, and the algorithm is just showing those to you. And secondly, you can only look that way at your leanest at a practically an unhealthy level of leanness. Now, there is a healthy level of leanness that you can walk around with, after you've built muscle for say, five to 10 years, and you've gotten closer to genetic potential. And you're fairly lean, but not super lean that everyone, anyone I've ever met would be completely thrilled with to be at that point. I think that's what we're trying to get what they call lifestyle lean. And yet even with that, if you don't spend some time in a surplus, gaining some body fat and losing a little bit of that definition, you're not going to maximize the speed at which you build the muscle. And you might be okay with that. So you might be okay taking the next 15 years to try to slowly build muscle. But a lot of people I've met would rather build, say 80% of their potential muscle. I'm just throwing a number out there over the next two or three years. Then take 1015 years to maybe Get there, right. And then over the next two to three years, you're making some sacrifices in terms of your body fats. Okay? So there are these complex feelings we have about body image. And I definitely hear that a lot more from women than men, but I have them, the men I talked to have them as well. And there's also a sort of different backlash out there, where very strong lifters will make fun of or joke around with people who are trying to lose body fat and saying like, Hey, don't you know, you're skinny man, you're too skinny, like people will say that. And that's, that's a, that's a similar form of quote unquote, body shaming. Now I personally don't, I find it hilarious because the people I hang out with we joke with each other. And we know we're doing that. And it's all good. But if anyone listening who knows someone else, who is in this journey for their fitness, they're going to be at a different level of strength, and muscle building and fatness and health than you, and also at a different level than other people their age, right. And if you're this person, you know who I'm talking about where, especially if you're a woman, and guys in the gym, make comments about you, that are just unwarranted. They're just inappropriate. And they're stupid, right? They have no idea what you're going through. And by the way, and you could joke in your head, like, I bet I can, you know, I bet I can deadlift more than that guy. Right? But but maybe you can't. And honestly, it doesn't. It doesn't matter. I'm just saying that that's something that, you know, we joke around. I guess what I'm going with all this is, is very personal. And if you're listening, just know that whatever you feel is correct. And also whatever your goal is, is correct. And the question is how to accept all the things that go along with pursuing and achieving that goal. So that on the balance, you are not in cognitive dissonance, but actually very satisfied with the choices you've made. And that's hard, because if your goal really is to get stronger build muscle, and you know, it takes gaining some weight in the process, you have to and this is one of the few times I say you have to you have to accept the fact that you're going to gain weight, so the scale weights gonna go up, and that there's some body fatness that comes along for the ride. That's just a fact. But you also can recognize that there are many, many, many, many benefits that go along with that before you even get to the, to the end goal. Alright, so the reason that you have to gain some fat along with muscle is simply because that's the body's storage mechanism. As you are bringing in energy, it's very easy to gain fat. And you can only build new muscle tissue so quickly. So you know, as you're training really hard, you're eating your protein, you're eating your calories. If you try to speed that up, your body can't go any faster on the muscle side. So it's going to go much faster on the fat gaining side, the counter argument to that as well, then I'm just going to, I'm going to stay barely above maintenance, so that I don't gain any fat. But it just doesn't seem to work that way. Assume that you're going to gain half of the weight that you gain as fat. That's a good assumption. It could be even more than that if you're more advanced. But I've definitely in my current gaining phase right now after having done this three times in the past, using my rough estimates of body fat, I'm about a 5050 Right now, a one to one, which is awesome. That's the best I could possibly hope for. So I want you to assume that at least half of what you're going to gain no matter how slowly you try to go is going to be fat. The positive about that is that you might as well then go as fast as you can go until the point where fat starts to outpace muscle. And we kind of know what that is, we know that that's around, like I said before, two to three pounds a month for men, one to two pounds for women. And so it equates to something like point two to point 3% of your body weight per week. Yeah, I think I got that right point to 2.3% of your body weight per week on the upper end, the more advanced you are the lower you go. So once you accept that, then you know, it's a fact and it's logic, that you're gonna gain some fat to gain muscle period. Let's just accept it. That's the first thing. Now let's keep going. Because if you're not going to accept that, then you have to accept a much, much longer road to building muscle and getting the physique physique you want. Then there's this dichotomy between all of these insecurities I just talked about, and the societal judgments and the people making comments. By the way, get those toxic people out of your life, stay away from them, or give them the peace of your mind. Like tell them, hey, this is wrong. Stop making comments about my body. Like this is not appropriate. And if you're in a gym setting, go talk to the manager. Go talk to the instructor, right. Hey, this is Philip and I hope you're enjoying this episode of Wits & Weights, I started Wits & Weights to help people who want to build muscle lose fat and actually look like they lift. I've noticed that when people improve their strength and physique, they not only look and feel better, they train for other areas of their life, their health, their mental resilience and their confidence in everything they do. And since you're listening to this podcast, I assume you want the same things the same success, whether you recently started lifting, or you've been at this for a while and want to optimize and reach a new level of success. Either way more one on one coaching focused on engineering, your physique and body composition is for you. If you want expert guidance, and want to get results faster, easier, and with fewer frustrations along the way to actually look like you lift, go to wits & weights.com, and click on coaching, or use the link in my show notes to apply today, I'll ask you a few short questions to decide if we're a good fit. If we are, we'll get you started this week. Now back to the show.

Philip Pape  20:48

They're the insecurities of what happens when your body shape changes, especially because the place that we usually dislike the most is the place where fat goes to first. And that's not coincidence. It's because we are used to the fact that that's the fattest part of our bodies. And so we've we've tied that to our overall body image. And so it kind of is a vicious cycle, right? So you take those insecurities, but then you take the confidence and the positives about getting physically stronger and building muscle. And we know that changing your body composition for the better, can improve your self image can improve your confidence. And so one of the things that comes to mind is, is there a way to still exude and embrace that confidence that comes from knowing you're stronger, you're bigger in a good way, there's muscle there, right? You're filling in your shirts, you know, slit, the shirts are getting a little tighter. But it's not like in the past, just because you were getting fat, it's because those muscles are starting to pop, right? You're creating this marble sculpture underneath this little layer of fat that's going to just be there ready to get revealed when you when you carve out the fat. And yes, you're going to have emotional ups and downs throughout this. But coming back to the positive of embracing the bigger, stronger body and what you're able to do with that body, not just in the gym. But in real life. Maybe you can help somebody like moving furniture around. One of my clients said that she she had to put something in the car, she went with her husband to Home Depot or something and put something big in the car. And she was like, Whoa, like I it was super easy. I had no idea I'd be able to just like Chuck it over there. And she's in a building phase. And she's she's bigger and stronger. Right. So that's, that's one thing that comes to mind. See, I told you this will be unscripted because I have some minimal notes here I'm trying to get through. But but I'm trying to address each of the things that I relate to. Another thing is, the challenges when you're bulking include us kind of the reverse of what happens when you're losing fat, which is you hit plateaus. So when you're losing fat, we all know we hit a weight loss or fat loss plateau, we get stuck. And we're not sure why. Right? We've talked about that in the past, I'm not going to rehash all the reasons why. But we have the same reasons the other direction, where when you're trying to bulk or lean bulk, whatever term you want to use, you're gonna hit plateaus along the way, for a variety of reasons. And the reason I bring that up here with the whole insecurity discussion about getting fluffy, is because number one, when you hit those plateaus, you feel like it's going to take longer. And now you're like oh, now I have to be fluffy for longer, like, Come on, let's get let's build, let's build it's built. And you know for sure if you're in a plateau, if along with those scale, a plateau, your lifts, all of a sudden that week seem like they're harder, like obviously, you should be progressing anyway. But sometimes the progression to the next level feels a lot harder than the last time. And sometimes it feels easy, you know what I'm talking about. And oftentimes, that's correlated with your metabolism ramping up, and you're not eating enough to keep up with it. Even if you're using macro factors, which I highly recommend everyone listening this app on the market for this fact, the only one that can get you to precisely bulk at just the right rate. So you don't gain too much fat, but you also don't accidentally go into a diet. And if you use macro factor, of course you use my code Wits & Weights, all one word. That's my only plug today. All right. So if you're using macro factors, even then, what I often see and tell me if this isn't true with you, in your head, of course, because this is a one way conversation right now that you hit these plateaus on the scale. And sometimes they your weight even goes down, you're like what is going on eating, you know, whatever it might be, I'm eating 2600 Or I'm eating 3000 Or I'm eating 3200 calories a day. Okay. And I'm still not gaining Well, what's probably happening is if you look at your expenditure chart, it's probably increasing pretty quickly. And macro factor doesn't want to be over responsive, it's conservative. And so the if you're working with me as a client, we see that and I recognize it as a true plateau. We will simply get ahead of it by eating more. And I know that sounds like oh, that's an easy solution. But when you know your expenditure, and you know that the weight stall is because the expenditure is going up, and no other variables have changed, that's excellent information to make a decision from to eat more, without the risk that, oh, I'm going to gain a bunch of body fat, because I'm going past the rate that Philip just talked about of like the one to one. And so by doing that, you can get out of the plateau pretty quickly by being proactive and upping those calories as it ramps up. So one of the big challenges and I talked about this on the heart gaining phase is just eating more and more and more and more. And then, and then that correlating with your feeling of fluffiness, or being bloated or being a little bit uncomfortable, because your stomach is always bold, basically. Or maybe you have a little bit more digestive issues, because now you're just eating so much more. Maybe you have more processed food, maybe you have more or less fiber, right, we know the deal. Eating a lot of food has its own challenges. And so you correlate that with being fluffier, like, yeah, I feel like a slob, right? Like, the I just black. I feel like blah, okay. It feels it. It's like, Oh, am I doing the right thing by eating so much? Like, is this okay? That I'm eating, eating, eating? And yet, at the end of the day, you know, you're not unless you're over consuming by 1000s and 1000s of calories. If you're tracking, you're still gonna stay within that correct ballpark to, to get through the plateau and make progress, but not do it so fast that you gain too much fat. Right? That makes sense. So I kind of wanted to address that piece of it. Because a lot of us will. A lot of people will give up. Like they get to these things. And they think, Am I just pushing myself to be like, too fat? Am I just pushing myself out there? And this is this is disgusting. Like, what am I doing? Right? These doubts that we have. I've been through it enough times now to know that I'm going to hit these sticking points, maybe three or four or five times in a, say eight month building cycle. It'll happen quite a bit. And I actually just went, I think I'm coming through it right now. And every time it happens, here's here's how we spin it around. Here's how we reframe it, instead of saying, oh, that's disgusting, what am I going to do, but blah, blah, embrace the fact that, oh, you know what, I can even eat more this week. Now, you might not think of that as a positive. Because if you're already hitting 3200 3400 3600 calories, and you're getting a little tired of it, that's a different issue we need to talk about. Because if you're at the point where you're 789 months into a building phase, and you just are sick of eating, we don't want to be in that mental state, like physiological. You don't want to be there. And it's probably time to come out of that. But assuming you're not there yet, we can embrace the positive, like I just did this week. And I said, All right, well, I guess I need to overcome snap II too, but I'm going to overshoot my calories by maybe one to 200 every day. And I know it's going to be fine. Because I'm trying to break through a plateau right now. All right. So enough about that one. What else? Okay, so, as we go through this building phase, you're going to have lots of self talk, you're going to have this internal narrative about how your body's changing. You might even say like, what happened, I did all this hard work to get my diet under control. And, you know, this flexible dieting approach I'm tracking, I'm strength training really hard. Maybe I even went through a fat loss phase. And that's leanness, and definition where I wanted to be. And I feel like I'm throwing it all the way. This is where I think some combination of self care and coping with the mental aspects of this is going to be important. And so what does that mean? So first of all, we want to have realistic goals, right? That's one thing that comes to mind is assuming we're going at a reasonable rate of gain. And we know that we're following an effective program, and we're lifting more and more each session. Okay, those goals are the ones that we want to go after, not the a year from now I'm going to be leaner, because that's too vague, and it's too far away. So I would rather you focus on performance, performance, performance, and not aesthetics. Even though my comment earlier was that there is a way to embrace your fluffier aesthetics, especially when you have a shirt on and you just look bigger and stronger. Now, I know this is different between men and women. But But ladies, you know, when you've got those bigger thighs, because you're building all that muscle, you know, that's, that's something you can embrace. Or maybe it's the back, right, like, whatever it is for you. Okay, for me, it's like, you know, having kind of broader shoulders, bigger biceps, kind of a big strong back. Now, again, if I took my shirt off, I would feel more insecure, because I've gotten a little extra fluff. But then I'm like, so what? I'm big and strong, this is going to pay off later. However, that's a little piece of it. The rest of it is performance is this holistic view of wow, I am able to go to the gym every single session and get more out of my workouts each time over and over and over and over again. And if you're doing a building phase the right way. Okay, so just like when I my clients are, are focused, right? But they also have a plan and we're able to adapt and use that data that we're tracking to adjust each week, assuming you have that. And you know that if you're coming close to stalling on a lift, there's a A reason why it's either because you're not eating enough, sleeping enough, taking enough rest periods, whatever, you can quickly adjust and keep moving in a building phase, you quote unquote, should be able to constantly make progress. Now for a newer lifter, that might look like squatting three times a week and going up five pounds every time. But as you get more advanced, might look like your squat goes up once a week, or, you know, or twice a week, and then once a week, right? Or maybe you get an extra set in each week, and then you reset to a higher weight and get more set. Whatever it is, you get what I'm saying it's progressive overload, but you should be able to constantly progress. That is the sign you're getting stronger and building muscle. If that if that plateaus or regresses that is where you get concerned and look at what's happening. And adjust because that's really what we're going for. Right, the aesthetics and being fluffy and all that, frankly, it shouldn't matter at all right. But I didn't want to make a podcast episode that said, no, just don't worry about that.

Philip Pape  31:04

That's not how we are as humans. So instead of worrying about that, focus on this, and this is performance, in the more holistic view. Okay. The one thing I can't always address as, as much as maybe others can, I never really had, I never really had an experience with I'll say, disordered eating, like an eating disorder, or super poor body image, like some people face when they're younger, I never was happy with my physique, I always thought I was either either a little bit, a little bit fat, or a little bit skinny fat. And I simply accepted that, like, I would never be able to change that. And so I guess it in its own sense, that is a form of poor body image. It's like, it's, it's accepting fate. And just moving on, which, for anyone knows me, I'm very positive person like I, I like to reframe things I like to think of, well, it could be worse, right? It could be worse. And so that's kind of, it gives me a sense of resilience of mental resilience that has helped me cope over the years with these things. Whereas others might have more anxiety, disorders, depression, things like that, as a response to these things, right. I'm also a male, not a female. So there's certain issues that I never had to face being a male. And I also did lots of diets over the years. So you could argue that I'm right now in the midst of making this podcast, doing some form of rationalization or denial, and in reality, every time I would go on a diet and restrict, it was me responding to some insecurity I had about my body, right? I'll accept that for sure. If I'm just to, you know, kind of open up my, my mindset to my past here and try to be more reflective of it. So if you can do the same, and kind of tap into your experience with past disordered eating patterns, or body image, and how those resurface, right, as you try to gain weight, and what kind of reframing and mental shift we want to have, toward the positives of why we're doing this, which is different than why you gained weight in the past. It's two different things. Right? In the past, you gained weight, unwillingly, you know, unwittingly, or unintentionally, probably from overconsumption, probably didn't have nearly enough protein that you needed, and probably weren't strength training effectively, you were gaining a lot of fat. Well, now the mental shift here is we are gaining a lot of muscle. Oh, by the way, there's a little fat that comes along for right now we're going to cut off later. So we're going to shift it that way. It's, it's a little bit different, isn't it? Right. And also, the fact that we can't live with the societal physique ideals that are out there are, first of all false, like I mentioned before, right, where you equate a six pack abs, you know, with your worth, which it doesn't even exist for 99.99% of people. And instead, focus on the functional strength goal. Now, if you see somebody online, who's similar to you, who's power lifter, or they lift weights, and they're deadlifting, way more than you, it's your body weight, and you're a little bit jealous of that and want to get there, take that driving energy, like I'm not going to criticize you for that, right? Because I think I think funk I think strength and performance is a great thing to go after. Just make sure that it's realistically within your grasp for this building phase. So if you currently deadlift 185, and you're in a six month building phase, your targets probably not going to be 475. But it's going to be some reasonable level, assuming you know, X number of pounds per session or week jump over six months. And you know, a little bit of conservatism built in in there for your life. And you say, Okay, this is a goal, I'm gonna go. I'm at 185. Now my goal is going to be 305 for example, I think those are great goals to have, and ideals to have when you're trying to build muscle. So, what else comes to mind? By the way, reach out to me on Instagram, if you find this, if you find this episode helpful to you, it's very unscripted as you can tell. And I'm almost like cringing in my own skin right now with the lack of detailed notes I have and doing this, but maybe you appreciate where I'm coming from. Right? What I have found is that when you've done it, the first time you do this is the hardest. The second time is still hard, but a little bit less so. And then it should get easier from there. Now, you may have a different experience, this is what I found. I do have a client I can think of in particular who went through a building phase, and then a fat loss phase, she got leaner than she's ever been. And was kind of on the fence about like wanting to lose more versus gain more and was worried about gaining that extra weight back. And we got to a point after mapping out like what are the micro goals for her lifts? Exactly what programming is going to be best for her because she was kind of program hopping for a very short while they're trying to hit other goals that weren't necessarily string focused. So what is the exact program that's going to get you there in the next six months? How can we go at a rate of gain where the end weight on the scale doesn't really sound scary, but it's big enough to push you to gain muscle? Right. And once you have all that in place, once you have a plan and goals and numbers to go after and objective measures, and you're tracking your data and all that, it really does take a lot of that stress off, right. And so there's there's an element of patience, there's elements of no element of knowing yourself, and knowing yourself better. And by that, I mean, once you've gone through it, you will know yourself better, you'll know what works and what doesn't. And what's the worst that's going to happen, the worst that's going to happen is you're going to gain a little bit extra fat than you want it. And you're going to take an extra week or two in the fat loss phase to get it up. Think about that. If you know how to build muscle and you know how to lose fat. What's, what's the big deal of this whole thing anyway, if I'm if I am going to give you a flippant response that sums it all up is what does it matter anyway, you know, you know it's gonna happen now you may not have the confidence because you haven't gone through this before. And I get that. And that's, that's a lot of the people I'm speaking to is if you've never gone through before, you're just not sure. And you're scared. I get it. And that's why I'm that's why I'm putting together this episode just to say that I go, I have the same fear. Like as I sit here, you know, I can grab my belly fat, and I'm like, Okay, I still I'm trying to gain about five more pounds during this building phase. And then I'm gonna do fat last week. But you know what, I've gone through a fat loss phase like three or four times before, and I know it works. And because I know it works. I don't have to be scared about where I am now. Alright, so I'm not sure I covered all the possible things that are in your mind about this topic. And if I didn't, again, I want you to reach out to me on IG at Wits & Weights, where you can email me Philip with one L at wits & weights.com. For a conversation like CRC just say, Hey, I listened to your episode. What about this, like you didn't cover this, let me know, hopefully, I covered most of the big issues. I think that embracing the power belly, or the power hips, or whatever it is, is a positive way to contribute to your strength, your health, your well being because muscle is medicine muscle is primary muscle is the thing that is going to help you live longer, be stronger, eat more food, make fat loss easier, have even more food freedom, right be able to be there for your grandkids, your great grandkids be deadlifting until you're 95 muscle is super powerful. And if that can overwhelm any self doubts about a little bit of fat gain, then embrace it. If you're struggling with similar issues, as I've talked about today, if you're struggling with what it feels like to gain a little bit, a little bit of fat along for the ride, focus on the long term progress over the short term, look in aesthetics. But you can do it by focusing on short term performance focused goals, I can override those doubts about your appearance. So I hope that all makes sense. It wasn't too rambley. And again, if you you know, if you enjoy the episode of the story resonated with you in any way, if you want to chat about your experience your fears, goals, or strategy. If you have a question, you can always send me a message on Instagram at Wits & Weights, or an email Philip at wits & weights.com. Actually, I also have an ability for you to send me a voicemail, which would be really awesome. I don't get a lot of those. I don't know if if folks are afraid to use that or what? Because I get a lot of questions via text, you know, written questions, but you can go to the link in my show notes. I think it's the very last link at the bottom to leave an audio message and I will play that message on the show and answer the question for you. Or even if it's just, you know, not a message without a question. I'll play it on the show. I always love to hear from listeners, even if you just want to say hello. And as I said before, today's episode was a little more than scripted. So that's that's it. That's it for today. As always, stay strong. And I'll talk to you next time here on the Wits. & Weights podcast Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights if you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights, please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong.

Ep 140: The Freedom of No More Cheat Meals

Are you tired of the guilt and restriction of so-called cheat meals? What if you could eat what you want and still be healthy?

Today, Philip (@witsandweights) challenges the cheat meal mentality and helps you reframe the language around it. He talks about exploring a more balanced and sustainable approach to eating to help you say goodbye to food guilt and cheat meals and hello to a healthier emotional relationship with food.

Today, you’ll learn all about:

0:00 Intro
4:26 What is a cheat meal
7:53 Cheat meal as a reward
9:21 Increased cravings and binge eating
13:31 Flexible dieting
16:21 Manageable calorie restriction
17:45 Consistent tracking
24:23 Outro

Episode summary:

The episode challenges the traditional notion of cheat meals and the detrimental binary classification of food as 'good' or 'bad.' This podcast stands out as a guiding light for those looking to embrace a healthier, more balanced approach to nutrition, marking a pivotal shift in how we perceive dieting.

The concept of cheat meals has been deeply ingrained in diet culture, often leading to a cycle of restriction, guilt, and overindulgence. Philip argues for the adoption of flexible dieting—a methodology that empowers individuals to incorporate a variety of foods into their diet in a controlled manner. By doing so, the guilt associated with cheat meals dissipates, and the emphasis shifts towards sustainable eating habits that can be maintained long-term.

The conversation touches on the negative emotional relationships that can develop from rigid dieting practices. The 'all or nothing' mentality is dissected, revealing how it can undermine mental well-being and lead to unhealthy patterns such as binge eating. Instead, listeners are encouraged to view food through a lens of nourishment and enjoyment, breaking free from the constraints of traditional dieting paradigms.

The podcast episode doesn't just stop at critiquing the pitfalls of the cheat meal mentality; it also provides practical strategies for maintaining a calorie deficit without feeling deprived. Listeners are guided on how to manage diet fatigue through smart nutritional choices, like setting realistic macro targets and indulging in controlled 'refeeds'—planned increases in calorie intake that do not derail dietary success. This strategic approach allows for flexibility while keeping long-term health goals in sight.

Furthermore, the episode challenges the unhealthy glorification of overindulgent foods by social media influencers, advocating for a more nuanced understanding of what a balanced diet looks like. Philip emphasizes that a flexible diet isn't about strict avoidance but about how different foods can fit within one's nutritional goals. Consistent tracking, understanding one's body needs, and aligning diet with lifestyle are all crucial components of a sustainable diet, which the episode articulates with clarity.

In conclusion, the podcast presents a compelling argument for a diet free from the shackles of the cheat meal mindset. It paints a picture of a nutritional journey that is adaptable, stress-free, and in harmony with one's health and well-being. For anyone seeking to transform their relationship with food and achieve lasting dietary success, this episode is an essential listen.

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Transcript

Philip Pape  00:00

Are you tired of the guilt and restriction that comes with so called cheat meals? Today, we are challenging the cheat meal mentality and exploring a more balanced, sustainable approach to eating and a reframe of our language. Say goodbye to food, guilt and cheat meals and hello to a healthier emotional relationship with food in today's episode Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in. Wits & Weights

Philip Pape  00:49

community Welcome to another solo episode of the Wits & Weights podcast in our last episode 139 Female strength resistance training hormones and muscle growth with Lauren Kilonzo simple, we dived into the latest research and strategies on female specific topics, including the menstrual cycle and strength training, satellite cells and muscle growth, low energy availability machines versus free weights and functional training plus bonus content on how to get started lifting with machine weights available only to our insiders email list. Just go to wits & weights.com/bonus. If you haven't yet, join that list, it's totally free, or click the link in the shownotes. Again, that's wits & weights.com/bonus to join the insider email list. Today for episode 140. The freedom of no more cheat meals we are tackling what is a pet peeve of mine, and that is cheat meals, both the concept itself and also the term. I think this term is used often and not always in the right context and sometimes in the right context. And we're going to explore both of those. We'll explore why moving away from the cheat meal mentality can be so beneficial for your physical and mental health and wellbeing, and how this ties into a flexible sustainable approach to dieting, like we talked about on the show. Now before we dive into the topic, I wanted to mention an awesome new feature that I just implemented on my website called the podcast finder. Right now we're at 140 episodes and counting. And I know it can be hard to find the exact episodes that you want to listen to. on a specific topic, we have new listeners joining all the time. As much as they want to binge all those episodes, there are a lot and cover a lot of different topics. And since those episodes, including the show notes, and the full transcripts are on my website, I decided to add a Google powered search feature. So you can quickly find what you're looking for. All you have to do is go to wits & weights.com/podcast, and then scroll down to the podcast finder. That's wits & weights.com/podcast for the podcast finder, or click the link in the show notes for the podcast finder. And then you can find any topic you want across all those episodes. Now we talked about cheat meals. And we talked about sustainable approach to dieting. Now when I say dieting, I understand that I mean a few things. I mean, either your diet, which is simply the food that you eat, or dieting, as in being in a calorie deficit with the intent of losing fat while holding on to muscle. Either way, it's still a form of restriction. Now, that restriction in the sense that you want to make smart balance choices about what goes into your mouth, to maintain that calorie deficit, not to mention all the non food decisions like your training, step count, or hydration, supplements and so on. All of these can have an impact on your mindset, and your psychology that ties into this idea of cheat meals. So I'm laying the foundation, the fact that we need to be in a calorie deficit, to lose fat. And that that calorie deficit is a form of restriction. And that sometimes we need relief from that restriction, or fatigue, right diet fatigue is sometimes called. And this leads to the concept of cheat meals for many. Now, I don't use cheat meals, I don't use the term cheat meals, and my clients don't use or need cheat meals to be successful ever. And that is what today's episode is all about and why I'm calling it the freedom of no more cheat meals. So first, I want to dive into what they are. What is a cheat meal? How does it impact our mindset? I saw real recently that said, you know, stop hating on cheap meals, you know, you've got to use them learn in our diet. It's just a refeed. But I think there's something insidious about the term itself that can be destructive. And again, if you're the five 10% of people who just use it kind of in a different way, and it doesn't have that meaning to you. Great. All right. I'm not who I am this you're not the person I'm speaking to. I am defining cheat meals today. As a meal that deviates from your nutrition plan, that is typically high in indulgence foods, which usually means more, you know, carbs, fats, sodium, sometimes sugar. And they're often seen as a way to indulge in foods that you crave, while otherwise adhering to a quote unquote, clean diet that is absent of those foods. Very important definition the way I defined it, that means most of the time you're eating in a way that is quite restrictive. And then you save up for this cheat meal, not save up, but mentally you're waiting. And the cheat meal comes in how you eat whatever you want. And it's all the things you could quote unquote, couldn't eat the rest of the time. Okay, this is the problem. The problem is with labeling foods, as binary as good or bad. And the word cheat is exactly doing that. Because when you cheat, it means you are doing something bad that deviates from something good, right? Just think of any other context of cheating. And you can't help but agree with what I'm saying. All right, now, there's a difference between cheat meals, and refeeds refeeds refeeds are controlled, pre planned increases in calories. As part of your overall calorie intake. That's all they are usually in the form of increasing carbs. You can do it for calorie cycling for psychological relief. But it's not the same as saying I'm going to cut and restrict certain foods, and then I'm going to indulge and binge on those foods for my cheat meal. Very different concepts. Both Yes, are intended to provide psychological relief. But refeeds they're usually at least a full day or multiple days in a row. And they are just a scaled up version of an otherwise normal day, usually by increasing carbs. But not necessarily by gorging on indulgences, or cravings that you've restricted on other days, mainly because you're not restricting those on a sustainable diet. So if you're doing this sustainably, you are incorporating indulgences regularly. Anyway, there's no need to quote unquote, cheat, but you may increase calories in a strategic way, for a refeed to different things. So when we when we label foods is good or bad, we're setting ourselves up for a negative relationship with eating right this is when people say I have an emotional eating problem or a negative emotional relationship with food. That's what they're talking about. This is a black and white thinking it's an on off switch. It's feelings of guilt and failure when you choose the food that is that is off limits, right that you're not allowed to have that is, quote unquote, bad. And this is completely counterproductive. It stranger moral conscience is the term that I think that was what Alexander Alan Aragon used in his book, flexible dieting. Because you are bad if you choose a bad food, right, and now you're putting a label on yourself. The other way that cheat meals are used is as a reward, right? It's a reward for like sticking to your diet or sticking to your training or exercise. And this is something called operant, conditioning conditioning, or misapplication thereof, because instead of getting the proper reward for your training, which is I'm stronger, I'm building muscle, I'm performing better, you're actually rewarding that action with something not related. And in fact, that not only not related, right, with a cheat meal, but as an opposition to the goal of your fitness program, which is, you know, to be consistent, to be strong to perform to improve to be an athlete to train all those things well, cheating, and indulging in whatever is and using that as a reward for fitness is perverse. You know, it's a perverse incentive, if you will. So just keep that in mind. Now, research has shown that cheat meals can lead to binge eating to excessive calorie consumption to guilt, shame, negative impacts on future food choices, to cancelling out your calorie deficit, right? Okay, I'm gonna have a cheat meal. I've been quote unquote good all week, and I'm gonna reward myself and all of a sudden you just wipe out the calorie deficit, because it's not a plan in strategic thing like we do with, for example, refeeds and calorie cycling in a sustainable diet. Research shows that cheap meals can increase cravings and make sticking to a diet more difficult because now, all those days when you're trying to quote unquote, stick to this very monk, like, austere, you know, eating pattern, you're just thinking about that cheat meal and your cravings go up. It's it's counterproductive for the very thing that it's supposed to help with, which is the psychological relief. So by strictly avoiding certain foods, you're now going to have stress related over eating. Anytime you get stressed, you're going to go hog wild, you're going to not be able to control yourself, right? And you're going to experience more psychological Stress and become more prone to binge eating. Now, does this sound familiar? Does this sound familiar we, we haven't really gotten into that much discussion on the show about all of those negative emotional impacts of rigid dieting, but it's there.

Philip Pape  10:14

It might seem that cheat meals provide psychological benefits similar to refeeds, because they give you a break from strict dieting and thus prevent binge eating. But the irony is they actually trigger binge eating episodes, because they are paired with absolute restriction of the foods in question outside of the cheat meal window. So I'm saying this in multiple ways to get it into your head, something that I didn't get for many, many years, it didn't understand this, I thought cheat meals were a way to make it sustainable, but it actually does the opposite. The use of cheat meals implies by definition, just think of the word cheat. It implies by definition that you're otherwise continuously dieting with a rigid level of restriction, or you've got food rules. And now you're cheating on those rules. Just like when you cheat on a game, or you cheat on a person, right, you're breaking the rules. And that is not sustainable. Whereas a flexible diet, we always talk about where you incorporate indulgences, you incorporate cravings, as part of the diet itself. Diet, okay. And by incorporate, I don't mean in an excessive amount, and you're always eating quote, unquote, cheat meal type meals, oh, you're including a little here a little there, you're planning it, and you're planning for the calories and macros, and therefore, you don't feel restricted. Right? Then you can combine those with other forms of psychological relief, like controlled refeeds. And these are going to be much more effective long term. Hey, this is Philip. And I hope you're enjoying this episode of Wits & Weights, I started Wits, & Weights to help people who want to build muscle lose fat and actually look like they lift. I've noticed that when people improve their strength and physique, they not only look and feel better, they transform other areas of their life, their health, their mental resilience and their confidence in everything they do. And since you're listening to this podcast, I assume you want the same things the same success, whether you recently started lifting, or you've been at this for a while and want to optimize and reach a new level of success. Either way, my one on one coaching focused on engineering your physique, and body composition is for you. If you want expert guidance and want to get results faster, easier, and with fewer frustrations along the way to actually look like you lift, go to wits & weights.com, and click on coaching, or use the link in my show notes to apply today. I'll ask you a few short questions to decide if we're a good fit. And if we are, we'll get you started this week. Now back to the show.

Philip Pape  12:43

So this concept of cheat meals, it's clear that it's widespread, right. And it's all over social media. And then it even gets skewed even more in a negative direction when influencers glorify the eating of over indulgent foods, as if that itself is healthy in some way. And then it normalizes it even encourages these unhealthy eating behaviors. It's just all wrong. It's all wrong. And we don't need that you don't need cheat meals, you don't need the term cheat meals. We don't need to glorify processed foods, you know, and say that, look, a healthy diet can just have unlimited processed foods, if you can use cheat meals. It's just wrong. So that's my opinion. But I think it's also supported by the evidence. And I wanted to lay out the case, before we get into what do we do instead? Right? So what do we do instead? Well, when we talk about flexible dieting, and those who follow this podcast know what this is, but it's always good to have a refresher. We're talking about balance, focusing on macronutrients and objective measures and outcomes and things that serve you and your goals, right? The micronutrients, the macronutrients, the energy balance, instead of off limit foods, right? It's not about whether you eat this or that. It's a sustainable approach where you have variety, and you have moderation, and you can stick to the long term. Now, I don't want balance and moderation to be confused with things like the food pyramid pyramid, or the government plate idea, or, you know, just just eat in moderation, quote, unquote, and these platitudes and these generic concepts because that's not the same as having something that is in balance for your goals. A good example of that is protein. Right? In my episode where I did about the dangers of low protein for longevity, I talked about how most people have like 10% in their diet is protein, and it really should end up being around 25 to 35 40% of your diet, if you have enough for muscle building muscle preservation, optimal health, but people see that as a high level of protein as opposed to just a balance level protein. So even the definition of balance can be skewed depending on your context. And the point here is it's not about eliminating foods, but understanding how different foods it into your nutritional goals, right. So we are going to have, for example, realistic macro targets, we are going to have realistic rate of loss when we're in a fat loss phase, we're going to have realistic calorie and carb cycling, if that's something you need for you, I just did a client check in today, a longtime client who typically has evenly distribute evenly distributed calories. And she had gone through my Rapid Fat Loss experiment a while back, just to try it out. And she liked the idea of having refeed days how you on days that are fairly routine during your week, where you can eat, you know, leftovers, and you've meal prep and meal planned. If you're in a fat loss phase, it's pretty easy to go with a lower level of calories on those days, and and sort of bank or save, quote unquote, those calories for the higher days. Now, again, we're not talking cheat meals, we're talking, reducing the calories and you're on your weekdays by let's say a couple 100 calories a day, which is not that meaningful to shift those calories and cycle them over to either your training days or the night before morning session, or to your weekends for your lifestyle, whatever makes sense from a psychological and a preference perspective, so that you can be sustainable with your diet. Again, that is totally different from cheat meals where anything goes where you've restricted, and now you're allowing any allowing things in having said that, when you're in a fat loss phase, you're still restricting something and that is the calories you are you are restricting the calories. But we try to make that restriction as manageable and least negative on you and your mind as possible. We do it. We do it through multiple ways we do it by, you know, going at a proper rate of loss. We're doing it by including high satiety and volume foods. We do it by making sure you do have indulgences planned in regularly, so that you never crave or binge or overeat or need a cheat meal, we do it by increasing your expenditure and your activity level as it makes sense. But not too much where you get too much stress. We do it by sleeping more, we do it by potentially reducing alcohol, all of those things to make it more sustainable, even during fat loss. But we never say you can't eat this, or you can't eat that to the point where you're going to now crave it so much that you get off the diet. By the way, this is probably the number one reason people jump off of their diet, they do crash diets, they go lose a lot of weight quickly. And all of a sudden they crave sugar, fats, carbs, sodium, and they just start eating everything in sight, or at least a lot of the things that they had cut out to get to that point, because they're like, I can't do this for the rest of my life, and compounded by muscle loss and all the other things that people do when they're not training that causes them to eat even more, and you get the idea. Okay. So another thing that we want to do is we want to have consistent tracking, right, if you regularly track your intake of calories, or macros, you track your food, you're tracking macros, in something like macro factor, which I can never shut up about, because it's such a great tool for the job. If you download macro factor, you use my code Wits & Weights regularly tracking your intake gives you awareness to understand your body's needs. Without feeling restricted. This gives you the ability to make informed choices. And you don't have to then have a set of rules that you would then be to cheat from makes sense, like cheating is only because you have restrictive rules that you're trying to get away from for a day or for a meal. We don't need to do that. Because you're tracking you know how much protein you eat, you know how much you know, fiber you're getting, you know, that on Saturday, I'm gonna have more calories, and I'm gonna plan in that cheesecake, or that pizza on a planet in, I'm gonna go I'm gonna do us a little bit of time restricted feeding to make it work, right, whatever way is sustainable for you. So consistency, flexible mindset, constantly reviewing what you're doing and gaining getting biofeedback, assessing your progress, making adjustments, ensuring that your diet aligns with your evolving goals and lifestyle, it's not fixed, that's the other thing. The next three weeks might be the same. And then week four, all of a sudden you go on a trip, or you change jobs, or, you know, the days get longer. And now you're going for more walks, any little change like that you change your training program, we'll all be back to your diet. And if you had rigid rules in place, it'd be very hard to adapt to that and it would feel even more stressful. But because we're using a flexible approach, it's adaptable, right? You can still be consistent. You're never trying to be perfect. You're trying to get it right 80% of the time, you can include a variety of foods in your diet with this approach. Okay, you can swap and substitute things it doesn't mean that you okay, if you love ice cream, like I do, put ice cream in there. However, you can always make a substitution and say, You know what, I'm gonna do a protein rich smoothie that's made like an ice cream, you know, and it's cold and put in the freezer and everything and it tastes like ice cream to me, but it also serves my goals and it doesn't kind of take up too much in terms of calories and other things. I don't feel restricted either, because it satisfied my craving for ice cream. So I'm not saying you can't do those smart swaps and substitutes, right? Cauliflower rice versus white rice, spices and herbs versus sauces. You know, you have a sweet tooth, you go for some grapes or banana instead of candy. Right? One of my client's his wife is a Keto. She's on the keto diet. And you know, I say I say stuff about keto, and all the other restrictive diets all the time. But what I what I like is, he takes advantage of the fact his wife is on keto, when he's in a fat loss phase, to use some of the amazing products that food science has given us for the keto diet, such as very low calorie bread. Okay, so there's this bread it's made with. It's made with wheat protein and wheat starch. And so they're able to give it like the thick squishy binding Enos of bread, like white bread, or wheat bread, but with less than half the calories. So it's like 45 calories, a slice instead of 110 calories a slice. And it still tastes like bread. So he's able to have a sandwich, not able to, but he has a sandwich with two slices of bread, and it doesn't hit his hard macros as much. That's smart. Like that's just a smart substitute so that he can still have something that tastes like bread feels like bread, it's pretty much bread, just food science has done wonders to make it less of an impact calorie wise. And that's cool. Like there's nothing wrong with that. That's smart. So anyway, I think you get the idea that having something adaptable and flexible, tracking, adjusting for your goals, week to week, takes the stress out, takes the guesswork out, and doesn't require cheat me. Right. As we wrap up. This isn't a super long episode. But as we wrap up, I hope that you have a kind of new and upgraded mental picture of how a flexible approach to dieting, free from the cheat meal mindset leads to sustainable and enjoyable mindset for nutrition, right? Making peace with embracing a lifestyle, that is something you can do forever for the rest of your life that is aligned with your health and well being does a cheat meal sound like it's something aligned with the health and well being to me a cheat meal is like going to the bar and having 10 drinks, right? It is not aligned with your health and well being. Maybe it's something you feel you have to do once or twice. But it's it's off. Does that make sense? So like me, you're a cheater. But if you're having a cheat meal, you're a cheater? How does that how does that resonate with you, when you are incorporating the things you like, anyway, on a regular basis to where it is not good or bad on or off, then you're not a cheater, in any sense of the word, you're your winner about that you're a winner. So we can reframe that. The idea of cheat meals being something we don't want to have to do, like if we feel that we need or have to have a cheat meal, something else, something else has an opportunity to be improved, then I think that's a more positive and more sustainable approach to nutrition. All right, if you're feeling overwhelmed by this, right by this concept that of cheat meals or but also by emotional eating, if you feel like you don't quite have the control that you want over your diet over your results. Don't just listen to this podcast and move on. Right I want you to reach out to me for a call. I do free calls all the time. I don't sell I don't Pitch Anything. All we do is we sit down, I asked you a few questions, we map out your nutrition strategy, we get you a roadmap for setting up your macros, getting enough protein, including indulgences as part of your plan, handling your social life with confidence, getting real results without feeling restricted, and with absolutely no need whatsoever anymore for the rest of your life, or cheat meals. So if you want to find out more, I invite you to use the link in my show notes to book a 30 minute results breakthrough session. And there we'll get to know your specific goals. And you'll leave the call with the best I'll say two or three next action steps for your nutrition strategy. No pitching no sales like I said before, just you and me having a conversation. Okay, in our next episode 141 Why I'm getting fluffy before I get jacked. I will be discussing the emotions that you might feel about your body when gaining weight to build muscle and getting a little fluffy along the way. I'm going unscripted to share my personal journey regarding body image and strategies to help you navigate these challenges yourself. As always, stay strong. And I'll talk to you next time here on the Wits & Weights podcast.

Philip Pape  24:39

Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights, please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then stay strong You

Ep 139: Female Strength, Resistance Training, Hormones, & Muscle Growth with Lauren Colenso-Semple

Do female athletes require an entirely different training approach? What hidden factors influence strength and muscle growth in women? Does your menstrual cycle impact your training approach?

Find out the surprising truth in today's episode!

Join our free insiders list to receive an EXCLUSIVE 10-minute bonus interview with Lauren on how to start training with machine weights, cables, and eventually free weights if you are new to lifting or intimidated by the gym!

Today, Philip  (@witsandweights) interviews Lauren Colenso-Semple, a researcher in exercise physiology and endocrinology who focuses on female sex hormones, resistance exercise training, and mechanisms of muscle growth. Lauren is also an expert fitness professional with years of practical experience and certifications in strength & conditioning, sports nutrition, and personal training. Lauren has published many articles and writes for the MASS research review, and in this conversation, they discuss some of the topics relevant to female athletes, such as the menstrual cycle and strength training, satellite cells and muscle growth, low energy availability, machines vs. free weights, and functional training.

Episode summary:

As we delve into the intricate world of women's strength training, it becomes evident that a one-size-fits-all approach falls short in addressing the unique physiological considerations for female athletes. Lauren uncovers the myths surrounding testosterone's role in muscle development and emphasize the importance of a tailored, evidence-based approach to training.

In the realm of athletics, energy availability stands as a cornerstone for peak performance. It's a critical balance that, if tipped, can lead to detrimental effects on muscle protein synthesis and overall health. For the competitive athlete, understanding the implications of energy deficits is paramount. As we discuss strategies to mitigate the adverse effects of low energy states, we underscore the necessity of a post-competition recovery diet and the potential of 'lean gains,' bringing to light the importance of a slight calorie surplus to stimulate metabolism without unwanted weight gain.

Strength training, a pivotal aspect of athletic development, often sparks debate on the efficacy of machines versus free weights. While both can effectively increase strength and muscle growth, they each bring unique benefits to the table. Machines offer safety and ease of use for beginners, while free weights challenge coordination and engage stabilizing muscles. The key lies in personalizing the training regimen, allowing for variation and specificity according to one's fitness goals and sports requirements.

Furthermore, the concept of functional training garners attention, as it pertains to the application of strength in daily activities and sports. We demystify the notion that functional training is a gender-specific requirement, reinforcing that strength is inherently functional, regardless of sex. Despite starting at different baselines, men and women can achieve similar relative gains from resistance training, demonstrating the universality of strength's functional role.

We also provide a platform for ongoing discussion and learning through the Mass Research Review community, YouTube Live sessions, and Instagram updates. The aim is to cultivate a continuous exchange of knowledge and support for athletes and fitness enthusiasts in their quest for physical excellence and understanding.

In closing, this podcast episode transcends the conventional narrative, offering a nuanced perspective on women's athletic performance that is grounded in scientific inquiry and practical coaching wisdom.

Today, you’ll learn all about:

0:00 Intro
1:59 Purpose of the questions Lauren is asking
3:26 The future of understanding female physiology and training
5:29 Female-specific performance and training assumptions
9:27 Menstrual cycle influence on training or the lack thereof
14:35 The role of satellite cells in muscle adaptation in training
21:32 MPS reduction during low energy phases in trained women
30:35 Comparing the effectiveness of machine-based training with free weights
39:45 The usefulness and definition of functional training in fitness
44:46 One question Lauren wished Philip had asked
47:09 Where to learn more about Lauren and her work
47:30 Outro

Episode Resources:

• Join our free insiders list to receive an EXCLUSIVE 10-minute bonus interview with Lauren on how to start training with machine weights, cables, and eventually free weights if you are new to lifting or intimidated by the gym!

• MASS Research Review

• YouTube (MASS Office Hours)

• Instagram: @laurencs1

🩷 Enjoyed this episode? Share it on social and tag me @witsandweights

🤩 Love the podcast? Leave a 5-star review

💪 Want to map out YOUR exact strategy for workouts and nutrition for the next 6 months?
Schedule a FREE results breakthrough call with Philip

🚀 Want to get 1-on-1 accountability, a personalized plan, and 24/7 access to a coach? Apply for 1-on-1 coaching

✉️ Join hundreds of driven individuals and get access to the FREE Wits & Weights email list with insider strategies, bonus content, and conversations with experts in evidence-based fitness and nutrition so you can achieve your ideal health and physique.

👥 Join our highly engaged, active Facebook community for even more support and exclusive live trainings and Q&As

📞 Want to ask a question? Send a Q&A voicemail

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Transcript

Lauren Colenso-Semple  00:00

Having muscle and being strong is functional. So whatever you can do to promote hypertrophy and strength gain makes you a more functional human being. You don't need to be doing anything fancy.

Philip Pape  00:15

Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in Wits & Weights community Welcome to another episode of the Wits & Weights Podcast. Today I have the pleasure of speaking with Lauren Colenso-Semple, an exercise physiology and endocrinology researcher who specializes in female sex hormones resistance exercise, training and mechanisms of muscle growth. Lauren is an expert fitness professional with years of practical experience and certifications in strength and conditioning, sports nutrition and personal training. Lauren has also published many articles and writes for the mass Research Review. That's how I found her and connected with her. And today we are going to get into some of those topics relevant to female athletes, including the menstrual cycle and strength training, satellite cells and muscle growth, low energy availability machines versus free weights, and functional training. And we'll see if we actually get to all of those learn those on the Wits & Weights email list will also get access to a bonus episode with Lauren on one of these topics later on. Lauren, I'm really excited that you came on the show. Thank you.

Lauren Colenso-Semple  01:38

Thank you so much for having me.

Philip Pape  01:39

So I've heard you talk about how far behind the research is into female specific factors related to training and performance, you know, other episodes, even women's health in general. And I think you're one of the pioneers, the you know, the modern pioneers in this field. Whether you see yourself as that or not, but you're kind of pushing that boundary forward? What is your driving passion behind this? What's your what's your big purpose for asking the research questions that you're asking?

Lauren Colenso-Semple  02:05

I think it started from a sort of selfish interest in wanting to know what was the best thing to do for my training. And when I was working full time in fitness than it was what's the best way to approach programming for my own clients. And as I became more and more involved in the science, then it kind of evolved into the passion of really trying to understand the deeper molecular mechanisms of what and why. So some of which are not actually practical or actionable, at least, you know, as of now, but I'm really driven by both pursuits, one, meaning how should we train? And how should we train our clients? How do we be evidence based coaches? And you know, what's really going on here from a scientific mechanistic perspective, I

Philip Pape  03:02

could definitely relate to that. I love that it's it started with a passion of your own personal development and growth, and then helping people and then hey, how does soul work? And like you pointed out, there are some things where maybe we've gone down the rabbit hole of study, and maybe there's not a practical application yet, or like we're gonna find out today, associations we thought might exist, that maybe they're not as strong as we thought or don't exist at all, for most people. Where do you think the field stands today compared to like, 10 years ago? And then, you know, is there something we need to catch up on when it comes to understanding of a female physiology and training as we move forward? Yeah,

Lauren Colenso-Semple  03:39

I think I'm also really driven by just the ongoing pursuit of just the intellectual curiosity that's associated with being a scientist. And that's something that I think is really important to highlight, because what we might think we know today will continue to evolve based on additional data, or as we figure out better ways of measuring certain things, or we get access to larger samples or populations that are, you know, less trained, or more trained or younger or older. So I think we've come a long way, in even since I first became aware of the exercise science literature, in the sense that people are focusing more on the fact that we do need to study women, we can't just assume that all the studies that are done in young healthy men are going to apply to young healthy women, and certainly older women as well. So I think we're on the right track, but there's still a lot more work to be done. And I hope to make a contribution to that progression.

Philip Pape  04:49

Yeah, I think I think you are honestly by just the way you communicate and how often you communicate and be willing to come on shows like this. I think you even wrote a paper in one of the Earlier mass issues about, I think it was about male coaches not understanding female physiology or something and, and I take that to heart being a male and wanting to help my clients too. So we're all in this together wanting to like know as much as we can to help. I thought it'd be fun today we talked about before we recorded to go over some of your articles, and maybe some other topics you're interested in. And then I'll give you my best shot at summarizing my interpretation of what you wrote. But then I want to pick your brain on some of the deeper questions. So the first one was your systematic review in frontiers in sports and active living, called current evidence shows no influence of women's menstrual cycle phase on acute strength performance, or adaptations to resistance exercise training. So I think we just gave away the answer in the title. But there is a common assumption that women's fluctuating reproductive hormone levels across the cycle can influence training in some way. I think your review found limited, maybe inconsistent evidence to support that. And what I understand from your conclusions is that some studies have poor methodology. For example, not every woman has a 28 day cycle with ovulation on day 14, right. There's a lot of variability. And then some some may, but the ones that do don't seem to justify any recommendations to adjust training. So what do you think? First of all, what do you think the assumption that this is the case? Why has it persisted? Despite the evidence?

Lauren Colenso-Semple  06:26

I think we have really minimal evidence, it's at this point. And one of the reasons for that is this is really difficult to study, just from a logistical perspective. And I've I've learned that in the trenches trying to actually do this work. And whenever you're trying to, to time any kind of performance testing or exercise training with somebody's menstrual cycle, there's only so much you can plan for even if somebody does have a fairly regular cycle. If it's really important that you're testing in a particular window or on a particular day, then maybe you don't know until the day before, maybe it's a Saturday. So there's a lot of reasons why people either don't account for this or don't want to dive into this particular research question. That said, the the idea that sex hormones would influence adaptations to training, I think, probably comes from the idea that male sex hormones potentially influence adaptations to training. And for a very long time, there was the thought that your testosterone levels or the kind of post exercise bump in testosterone would influence you, and it was a driver of hypertrophy. And now over a long period of time and a lot of studies, we know that it's probably not the case. And as long as you're within a good normal physiological range, that your your propensity for strength adaptations, or muscle growth is fairly similar, or at least it's not tied to your testosterone levels. Or another way to say that is your testosterone levels are not predictive of your response, unless you are in a position of super physiological levels, meaning you're taking exogenous hormones. So we do have a fair amount of literature on the role of testosterone and you know, quote, unquote, anabolic hormones. But we don't have as much information on the female sex hormones. So I think it's a, it's a logical next step, if we're going to try to study more women. Well, hey, what are one of the major biological differences here? With between the sexes? Ovarian hormones are one of them. Right?

Philip Pape  08:59

Yeah. So a couple of things I got from what you said, first of all, it's just really hard, if not impossible to kind of track this stuff. And even if you're going to apply it into at an individual basis, you know, you may not catch it in time, right? It's what you said, or you'd have to have some more precise measure. I think you mentioned on another show how like, you know, men can't tell that their testosterone is high or low. So women can either with their hormones in general, other than certain symptoms that certain women have. And so speaking of the practical considerations, then, for women who do experience changes in their energy or motivation, or some other symptom, is there a practical advice that would help them or should they just not try to do that?

Lauren Colenso-Semple  09:43

Yeah, so I like to make a really clear distinction between adjusting training around menstrual symptoms which tend to occur either right before you start your cycle or during the first couple of days of your cycle, and typically lasts 24 to 48 hours. That, to me is one question versus cycle based training or cycle synched training or whatever the word that you'd like to use, that implies making pretty substantial changes to your program in the phase before ovulation and in the phase after ovulation. And as you mentioned, in the your kind of intro to this topic, the textbook cycle is 28 days, and ovulation happens sort of smack in the middle. So in that context, we'd be saying for these two weeks, you should do this. And for the next two weeks, you should do that. As you mentioned, that's really not the case for everybody. In fact, it's probably only the case for a small percentage of naturally cycling women. So but to bring it back to the menstrual symptoms, those are things like fatigue, or menstrual cramps, or bloating or changes in your motivation. And to the extent that those are affecting your training, I think it's perfectly reasonable to have a plan to adjust accordingly, whether that's skipping a workout completely, or adjusting the intensity, or maybe switching to a different exercise. I think having any sort of auto regulatory component is helpful. And I would say the same if you were up all night with your baby the night before, or, you know, if you were jet lagged, or you weren't feeling well. So I would approach that the same way that I would a lot of other real life scenarios because it's only one or two workouts. Yeah, that

Philip Pape  11:41

seems like the logical conclusion is it's like any biofeedback right? No matter what it is, it's a principle that you're talking about, of just being smart about going with your body and doing what works for you and not being fixed on on on some prescription. I mean, I think that honestly, we could I could ask you 10 More questions. But I think that covers the gist of that topic. To be honest. Is there anything else that comes up often related to this that the women are asking about that you wanted to address? Yeah,

Lauren Colenso-Semple  12:05

I'd say that the sort of ethos from this comes from the fact that you have one hormonal profile in one phase, and then another hormonal profile in another phase. And the assumption is that there would be an influence on either performance or adaptations exercise that are influenced by these unique hormonal profiles. But not only is the timing different between individuals, the hormone levels are dramatically different when you actually measure hormones, which in real life, we tend not to do, but in the lab, we do all the time. And so I've measured hormones in women throughout the cycle, surrounding ovulation, or both. And the the extent to which they fluctuate is highly, highly variable. So you might say, well, we might see online, because estrogen is high, or because progesterone is high, then, you know, insert whatever exercise recommendation or nutritional recommendation. But in reality, you see this huge variability in levels, whereas you might have a small spike in estrogen, but you don't have the huge spike that you would see in the diagram, if you kind of Google hormonal fluctuations across the cycle. So I think it's really important to, to understand that not only does cycle length and ovulation timing vary between individuals, the actual magnitude of the hormone fluctuations is highly variable as well.

Philip Pape  13:42

That's important. Yeah, it kind of reminds me of a lot of things where we tried to biohack our way to these precise it like with the glucose monitoring, or even even honestly, carb and calorie cycling where people do, they're trying to do more than they necessarily need, versus just being consistent kind of doing the average American system will work for you. So thank you for explaining to

Lauren Colenso-Semple  14:03

them. What works for somebody else is going to work for you. And in terms of your your macronutrient ratio, or your calorie intake, our you know, how did that person lose weight at that rate? And oh, can I do that too? Of course not. Because your maintenance calories are not the same as that person's maintenance calories.

Philip Pape  14:23

Exactly. Yeah, that's a key message. Yeah, we talked about that all the time is individualization personalization. It's a big thing. The next thing I wanted to talk about was satellite cells, the role of satellite cells, and I just don't know much about this topic, and I know, the conversation, maybe it's gonna surround the what's interesting about it, and what's practical about knowing that information. So I'm just gonna let you explain the role of satellite cells in adaptations and resistance training and where we go from there.

Lauren Colenso-Semple  14:50

Yeah, so when we think about how muscle hypertrophy occurs, they think about protein synthesis or the accretion of new Do proteins into the muscle that allows the muscle to expand or to grow. And as you first start training, that growth will happen fairly easily. But over time, you need more and more of the sort of machinery, if you will, in order to allow for that protein synthesis to occur. So satellite cells live kind of on the outside of the fiber, and they're not integral to growth, but they can donate their nuclei to assist in expanding the muscle fiber. So there's a little bit of a debate in whether they're necessary for hypertrophy, or they're only necessary for hypertrophy when you're in a developmental stage. So a lot of this work has been done in animal models. And when you study a younger rat, or mice or mouse versus an adult, rat or mouse, you see a little bit of a different response. So it does seem like the role of satellite cells in growth are important in an adolescent, but perhaps not so much in an adult, at least in the rodent models. But the other really important role of satellite cells is the response to muscle damage, which will occur, you know, to varying extents in response to exercise. But if you do a particularly damaging bout, like really high eccentric load exercise, where you do a really, really high volume workout, those are things that for you kind of do too much too quickly. If you're first starting out, and you're getting really, really sore, that is when we might be experiencing kind of high muscle damage post exercise. And that sense, the satellite cells will release other growth factors it to essentially assist with the remodeling and the repair. So perhaps they're not as essential for growth in adults, as they might be in a in a youth population. But they are very critical for remodeling and repair in response and muscle damage. And that can also be in the context of injury in a in a really extreme form, not just exercise. But one of the more interesting questions that is sort of yet to be fully elucidated in regards to satellite cells is it appears that we start to lose them when we age. And so one of the potential mechanisms for that, then is that, you know, they actually serve to maintain your muscle mass. And so as they decline with aging, then we see muscle mass decline as well. Okay,

Philip Pape  17:50

so is that why we I think we've seen a correlation between the increase in satellite cells per fiber and muscle fiber growth? Is that tied into what you're saying that? Is there a cause and effect, like the actual development and training of muscle mass contributes to more satellite cells? Or it's the opposite? That have, yeah, yeah,

Lauren Colenso-Semple  18:10

yeah. So with growth, for sure. And then you you actually, when you look at a really interesting study, people who are taking exogenous testosterone, even after they stopped taking it, they still have more satellite cells. So their potential rule and growth is, is the fact that they can donate their nuclei and then contribute to growth above and beyond what might be possible without them. So if you have more satellite cells, then you have the potential to expand that fiber above and beyond what might be the case. But as you lose them, then not only are you you don't have that potential backup for the high hypertrophic process. You also don't have that machinery available to deal with the repair on the regeneration that you need it from muscle damage.

Philip Pape  19:01

Okay, the transcriptional machinery, are you I'm looking at my notes, probably related to ribosomes and everything else I don't want to get into that. Does. So what's the practical takeaway, then, like, just train and you know, keep yourself strong and healthy? Or is there another takeaway of how to increase satellite cells? Yeah, there,

Lauren Colenso-Semple  19:19

there isn't much of a practical takeaway on this one. This is more of a kind of mechanistic question. But if I if I had to say something, it's really important to train, if you can, when you're younger, and you're in middle age, because when you start training, when you're much older, you still do experience muscle growth, but you're not set up from a hormonal perspective or from a satellite cell perspective to really accrue as much muscle growth as you might have when you were a bit younger. So if you can sort of put the money in the bank now if you will, by starting to training In your younger or middle age, then you will be in a better functional position later in life.

Philip Pape  20:06

Got it? So either get a time machine, right and go back if you if it's too late, or get started now and honestly, that's a great message for anyone, even if you are 65 Get started with strength training if you're not there yet, but it is.

Lauren Colenso-Semple  20:18

It's never too late to start and it's always beneficial. Yeah,

Philip Pape  20:22

no good stuff. Okay, cool. So that's, that's interesting. I always find these these fascinating because you wonder, okay, why why are we researching this, but then at some point, you get this link, that gives you an aha moment, right of maybe practically what to do. The next article I wanted to talk about was the high cost of low energy availability. This is a very, this is also a pretty hot topic, at least in the circle. I'm in here, we talk about it all the time, especially for female clients with the rampant you know, calorie restriction dieting overstress environment we have today. And the article you wrote reviews, a study that showed decrease in muscle protein synthesis and loss of fat free mass, after just 10 days of being in that state of and when we say low energy availability, we just mean decent calorie deficit. In this case, I think it was, I don't, I'm not gonna go through all the numbers, you can do that if you want. But you had them training, they were training and doing some cardio, and despite enough protein and training, because we always say like, you have to have that training stimulus have to have sufficient protein, the low energy availability state reduced both myofibrillar and sarcoplasmic protein synthesis rates and resulted in loss of fat free mass. So that tell us about that, why this is important for us to understand, and then how athletes can minimize, I don't want to say minimize those effects, because effects exist, but maybe minimize being in low energy availability state is probably the end goal here.

Lauren Colenso-Semple  21:46

Yeah. So really, they the effects that they observed in this paper, I think the major takeaway was that the effects are detrimental even in those really short term. And I would say that this is mostly an issue for competitive athletes because they have to be in a in a situation where their energy expenditure is incredibly high, because of all the physical activity they're doing. And they're also trying to be at a certain low weight, either for performance benefits, or for aesthetic physique benefits. And so that's the, if you think about a bikini competitor going on stage and competing, like multiple times per year, for example, or a really high level in endurance athlete, you know, long distance runner or cyclist, where being at a lower weight is advantageous for from a performance benefit. But also, the energy expenditure is just so high from from all the physical activity that you're doing.

Philip Pape  23:00

Hey, this is Philip. And I hope you're enjoying this guest interview on Wits & Weights. If you're finding it valuable, you can get a bonus conversation we recorded. If you're on our email list, just go to wits & weights.com/bonus, or click the link in the show notes. Insiders on our email list will get a link to the bonus conversation where my guests will give you the exact steps to take related to one of the topics in today's episode. Again, these conversations are only available, if you're on our free email list. To get the bonus exclusive content with today's guests, just go to wits & weights.com/bonus, or click the link in the show notes. Now back to the show.

Lauren Colenso-Semple  23:41

I think that what we see with when terms of the physiological disturbances really run the gamut from reproductive function, metabolic disturbance, increased risk of injury. So all signs point to this is not a great idea to be in this state for too long. So if you're somebody who has to be there for a competitive purpose, and there's no way around it, then we get it. But we want to recover from that as soon as possible. And what we don't know entirely is the best way to restore that or the from from a practical perspective. But the sooner that you can return to a state of homeostasis, then the better off you'll be because the detriment of being there for too long is pretty substantial. Okay,

Philip Pape  24:36

and just just so you know, I talked about macro factor all the time on this show, and reverse dieting versus recovery diet and the idea of if you know your expenditure, at the end of that dieting phase, you can at least come back to it pretty rapidly. Would you say that that is a reasonable approach, you know, if you know your dynamic maintenance, just restore to that or is it more complicated than that for some people,

Lauren Colenso-Semple  24:58

I think and this is another thing we don't know is the effects of being there chronically some, you know, in a simple example of you diet down really hard for a physique competition, or, and you're in that state for a couple of weeks, then yeah, if you can restore your, you know, to your chair maintenance or your new maintenance, quickly, then all of the physiological benefits will come. And there really isn't much of an advantage of staying too lean too long, unless you have a subsequent competition. But if you're somebody who is going there, and then trying to restore, but you don't really get there, and then you go back down, and you do that continuously over a year, for example, then what we don't know the kind of chronic effects of doing that over and over again. And so and I think, I would speculate that, it's actually going to take you a really long time to fully restore. Because what we will see with the kind of recovery diet literature in general, although that's pretty limited, that even if you return to your, you know, pre diet weight, sometimes some of the other parameters, like hormone levels, or menstrual cycle function don't return as quickly. And it can, in some cases take months and months for those to actually come back. So I would advise against spending too much time in a state where you're going to be disrupting your hormonal function, your reproductive function, and probably losing muscle mass as well.

Philip Pape  26:51

That makes sense. So in that case, is there is there a strategy of overshooting and just going into a lean gain as soon as you can to speed hasten the recovery? Do we see that happen at the risk of a little bit of fat gain? Of course.

Lauren Colenso-Semple  27:06

Yeah, I feel like the term Lean gain can often be interpreted as I'm going to stay lean,

Philip Pape  27:14

conservative calorie surplus? Okay. Yeah,

Lauren Colenso-Semple  27:19

I would, I would say that, because the and I think that's one of the biggest mistakes that female physique competitors often make is that they're, they get really tied to looking a certain way and a level of, of leanness that just isn't really sustainable. And you pay the price for that. And eventually, you will have to face the either health consequences, metabolic consequences, whatever, you know, what have you with in that situation. So you will have to accept assuming you are very, very lean, you will have to accept a certain level of fat gain, some of us just can't maintain in perpetuity, a super super shredded physique.

Philip Pape  28:03

It's funny because this is anecdotal. But I've gotten to the point with clients now where I have this phrase I use called the top side of maintenance where I've seen it time and time again, you recover and you're not quite recovered, and you just kind of stay there meta, like your rate, metabolic rate just doesn't come up. And he's bumped it up a little bit. And even without gaining much weight at all, or at all, because it's just so negligible, all of a sudden, the metabolism starts to climb. And that's that's people who aren't even as extreme as you're talking about. So just for people listening, it's, you know, like, don't be afraid of these things, know that if your body's not responding, there could be a solution for you. And yeah, is there? Is there anything else about low energy we should cover really just I don't know, the loss of muscle mass, or you mentioned injury risk as well. I think that's an interesting one. Yeah,

Lauren Colenso-Semple  28:50

when you're getting into these really low states of, of energy availability, then pretty much everything is tanking. And so you're, you're just surviving at that point, you're certainly not going to be able to improve your performance. You're not getting strength, you're not gaining muscle, you're potentially slowly losing muscle. And so the app it's not good for your athletic pursuits, it's not good for your health. And I'd say for your example, where people are not necessarily in a, you know, severe state of leanness, but they are kind of hesitating to eat more, or they're hyper focused on sort of even staying like photo shoot lean, if you will. What, what I push my clients to do is allow yourself the time to eat more, yes, gain a little bit of body fat, but really crush it in the gym, get stronger gain muscle and then the next time you diet down, you're going to see those physique enhancements that you're really going for, you know, whether it's a loop development or shorter development, you're not getting there, especially as an intermediate trainee, you're not getting there without being in a in a state of reasonable caloric intake. Yeah.

Philip Pape  30:13

Listen to Lauren, she is full of wisdom. This is great. It really is great advice that just take that time to build the muscle, and it's gonna pay off. And you're gonna enjoy that. I think I mean, in my opinion, just being in a surplus in training and senior lifts golf all the time, it's kind of a fun place to be for a lot of folks with the knowledge that you might get that little power belly and some of us like to call it. Okay, cool. So the next big hot topic that you've written about is machine versus free weights. And the article in mass was does machine based training, improve free weight, strength, performance. And I know this is huge controversy when you watch YouTube or whatever, you'll see all these debates about this. But there's always nuance. And your article discussed discussed a study comparing the two. And the exercises included barbell or machine, squat row, overhead press and bench press, they found a similar muscle growth in the quads, pecs, and abs, and then strength increase similarly on both trained and non trained exercise. And there's more findings, I don't want to just take away from you here, give us the big picture. Starting with novice lifters, we've got definitely beginners who listen and maybe intermediate and some advanced, but on the spectrum, what are the main factors that should I guess, drive someone to someone's decision? Assuming they have access to a full gym and whatever equipment they want? That's the assumption first, what drives them to include free weights and machines in their program? Yeah,

Lauren Colenso-Semple  31:43

so what this study showed that was interesting is they tested everybody at the beginning on all of the machine based exercises and all of the free weight exercises. And then they divided them into two groups. And they had them either train just machine or just free weight. And then they tested everybody again. So when you when you say that the trained or the non trained exercise, just just to clarify, that meant the regardless of whether you were doing machine based training, you had pre and post tests in previous training, as well, and vice versa. So what they found, and I would say is fairly consistent in the literature is that there is some crossover. So if you're doing barbell squats, then you're probably going to improve your strength performance on the hack squat and vice versa. With muscle growth, it's very consistent that you can get equal muscle growth, whether you're doing machine based or free weight exercise training. That said, Of course, if you are competing in powerlifting, or Olympic lifting, or CrossFit or something where you need to focus on the performance of a particular lift, then the principle of specificity is going to be important. You're you have to barbell squat in order to perfect your technique and get super super strong in a barbell squat. But I think for the majority of people who are either focusing on general health or hypertrophy or overall strength, you can feel comfortable including both free weight, or machine based training or kind of mixing it up as you change your program throughout a given year. And feel that you're getting benefits either way, and that those will well transfer to a pretty large degree. The other thing I would say is if you're somebody who is focused on optimizing your hypertrophy, there are some exercises that machines can target much better than free weights. So think about a leg extension machine trying to do that with a free weight really difficult. So if you if you are somebody who is really looking to optimize your physique on all fronts, then I think there's an argument for including some machine based training that perhaps free weight exercises are not optimized for.

Philip Pape  34:11

Okay, yeah, that was a good summary. So for strength, there's some crossover for muscle growth. It's almost anything, can crossover not anything, but I mean, the equivalent type of exercise for that muscle group. Specificity is still important for skill for, you know, performance based events. And it's good to include both I like your last comment about you know, sometimes machines are superior, depending on what your goal is. Is there a case where, what was the question I was gonna ask, essentially, is there a is there a detriment to being exclusive for a while? Or can that also be beneficial? Meaning if you're not a power lifter, you're just focused on general health, general strength of physique of just doing say barbells and free weights for a while just doing machines or some combination, like, you know, doesn't matter? Is it more of a matter of like, do it's kind of enjoyable and get to result Along the way, what's your message there?

Lauren Colenso-Semple  35:01

Yeah, I think there. If you're new, there are some exercises that are really technically challenging. And so you, like a barbell squat is a technically challenging lift, a leg press, not so much. And so if you're somebody who really wants to learn how to do a barbell squat, then great, I probably wouldn't start there, I'd probably start with a goblet squat, and maybe progressed to a box squat and then develop the the skill and the sort of kinesthetic awareness required to do a barbell squat. The same thing goes for a deadlift. It's not an intuitive exercise. And if you're someone who's a bit more intimidated about learning to lift or, or going to the gym, and kind of figuring things out, I think machines are a really great place to start. There's also safety consideration, if you're, you're more likely to have to have a potential accident in a barbell lift. If you don't have a spotter, and you don't know how to bail out than you would be on a machine, there's more just sort of safety things that are in place there. However, not all machines are great for everybody. And you might find that for your limb length, for example, like that leg extension or leg curl machine just doesn't feel good for you. And you just can't kind of get into a position that works. And in that case, I'd say don't use that machine. And there, that's true kind of across the board, people who are shorter can have issues with certain machines. Or if there's a machine locks you into a particular angle of with your shoulder, like you might find that overhead press machine just doesn't feel good to me. Whereas if you're using dumbbells, you have total control over how you adjust that angle. And so I think that's a that's really important and something else to consider. But oh, and the last thing I would say is, if you're tracking your weights over time, then the weights on one machine aren't necessarily going to translate to that, that of another machine. So if you're going to a different gym, or you're using a different machine of the same exercise, then you just need to be aware that you that it's not kind of one size fits all. But with those. That being said, I think machines are great. And free weight exercises are great. And you should really feel free to kind of incorporate whatever you feel comfortable with whatever you prefer, and switch it up over time. And machines do give you that flexibility to like there's a million different ways that you can do a chest fly like you can do with a dumbbell, you can do a cable crossover, you can use a pec deck machine like then that can be kind of fun if you feel like your training is getting stale.

Philip Pape  37:59

Yeah, no, I agree I'm fully on board with that I'm actually doing a bodybuilding program now been doing for four weeks, and it's great to have a little both in there, you know, it's just mentally, psychologically can be helpful, too, when you're trying to put in all that work. One of the one of the interesting tip that Andy Baker gave on our show was, you know, if you use a machine that locks into a certain plane of motion, it might help you with the mind muscle connection for that target muscle that can then transfer to a freeway, just just sharing, you know, because I thought that was there's a lot of benefits to everything. You also meant to mention cable machines, which for the listener, those are more like free weights, even though they're technically called a machine, would you agree or not,

Lauren Colenso-Semple  38:43

I would still call it a machine. Okay. But the the advantage of the cable is that you can adjust your kind of anchor point and so you you aren't locked in. And so you like you can put the cable sack low or, or high or mid range and everything in between. So I love the cable machine. I think they're amazing. And you're also like, the reason I call him machine is because you're getting resistance through the full range of the exercise. And there's really no free way to exercise where that's the case. So yeah, but it's by far the most flexible machine and that's why I love it. Because there's just so many you can make any exercise work for you with with all that flexibility on that.

Philip Pape  39:34

Awesome. So maybe what we'll do is for our little bonus talk after this for the email subscribers, we'll talk about some of your favorite exercises for maybe different body parts, something like that. Sure, yeah. Alright, so the last one is unfunctional training quotes in quotes, functional training. And I have to tell you, I did CrossFit for eight years. So I know the lingo. I came through the ethos like you would use the word of, you know functional training for, you know, natural movement, whatever it's called. And you wrote an article called functional exercise training useful framework, or frivolous fad, examining the term and how it's used in fitness, that there's not really an agreed upon definition of what it is. And that there's maybe a whole bunch of claims that, you know, being be more effective or not, can't be supported because of the terminology. I don't want to get too much into it, I'll let you explain. The term functional training isn't helpful. It's not helpful. What are your what's your thoughts on that?

Lauren Colenso-Semple  40:31

Yeah, this is a term that I've heard since I got my first group fitness or personal trainer certification. And I sort of found the concept a bit confusing at the time. But there were personal trainers in the gym, always doing everything on one leg or on a BOSU and, and then somehow that made it more quote, unquote, functional. So I was really interested to dive into the literature on this, because it turns out, there's really no basis for using this buzzword. And but it's been used for 20 years, and is still really, really popular group fitness classes, definitely emphasize it, private training gems, use that. And often the definition is, or the perceived definition is that doing these types of exercises will translate to your daily physical function. So your ability to walk up the stairs, or carry groceries or do things that are, that are part of your daily life in movement. But it can also be used to describe athletics specific training, like sports specific training. So if we do this, then it will translate to that task in sports. So there's really a kind of nebulous definition. And the words that are used to describe it include so many from from all sorts of exercise, so you see things like strength and muscle growth, balance, endurance, speed, core stability. So there's they're taking all of these components of other really well established types of exercise training, and trying to kind of combine them to develop something that's new, that isn't really new. So the two major components of this that I discussed in the article were core stabilization, and unstable surface training, because those seem like really synonymous with functional training. And the consensus really was, there's not a lot of evidence to suggest that core stabilization training is really that effective, because most core exercises, when you think about exercises that promote, quote, unquote, core stability, we're talking about variations of planks, or unilateral exercises, most of which you're either using no load, or you have to lighten the load in order to adequately perform the exercise, when in reality, what promotes core function or the transfer of force production in the core musculature is going to be load. So you accomplish that by just doing traditional resistance training.

Philip Pape  43:40

I love that that's a great message. I mean, it's got to be loaded. Yeah, you're right, these things are much lighter. And I've also Yeah, the use of functional training to apply to everything from, like you said, movement patterns to sport specific things. And you mentioned specificity in there. It sounds like all the fitness attributes, you combine them into this amazing new program. And for $497. Today, only, you can get your functional training, you know, game on. So anyway, we can be a little tongue in cheek with it. But I just wanted to put that out for folks, because I have heard people say, Well, what do you recommend for functional training? And I think it's good to be very clear with our language. So thank you. Yeah,

Lauren Colenso-Semple  44:20

the most important takeaway is having muscle and being strong, is functional. So whatever you can do to promote hypertrophy and strength gain makes you a more functional human being there, you don't need to be doing anything fancy.

Philip Pape  44:37

Be strong build muscle lift weights, everything we talked about today, and you'll get, you'll get swole and you'll get functional all the same time. So alright, so I like to ask this question of all guests, Lauren, and that is what question Did you wish I had asked and what is your answer?

Lauren Colenso-Semple  44:52

I would say, we didn't talk about sex based differences in response to training and so often there's an assumption that males are primed for strength and hypertrophy in a way that that females are not. And that that is due to their anabolic response, again, going back to the hormones that we discussed earlier, but what we see is that in the pre training, so kind of post puberty, men have more muscle mass than women. And that is because of a post puberty increase in testosterone. So it that's important in development. But when you actually start lifting weights, the rate of increase in muscle mass and strength is actually similar between men and women. And that's something that people really push back on and have a hard time hearing. But that's what the evidence suggests. So again, on an absolute level, women, men who who left are going to be bigger than women who left, because the starting point was different. But from a relative perspective, the gains are similar.

Philip Pape  46:07

That's awesome. Yeah. So you're saying that the, for the same? I guess, relative stimulus in calorie surplus during muscle building, you can gain the same amount per month? Regardless, or something?

Lauren Colenso-Semple  46:21

The same percentage? I mean, so let's say we had two people, but one of each sex with the same amount of muscle mass at baseline, if they train consistently, they will the rate of gain will be similar, regardless,

Philip Pape  46:41

in relative terms to their starting muscle mass. Correct. Okay, cool. No, that's good to know. Actually, I had not, I've always expressed it in absolute terms. And like you said, there is going to be a difference there, as we see and isn't even huge, really, I mean, if you're working at it, you'll get great results. It just may take a tiny bit longer in absolute terms, but women are smaller and have less muscle mass and higher body fat to begin with. So relative terms, it's still the same. Okay, very cool. All right. Where can listeners learn more about you, Lauren, and your work? The

Lauren Colenso-Semple  47:13

massive news research review, please check that out. Mass research review.com. We also do YouTube Live, which is available for anyone, whether you're a subscriber or not every Wednesday night at 7pm. And you can find me on Instagram at @laurencs1.

Philip Pape  47:30

All right, so the mass Research Review, which I'm a subscriber of as well, so definitely big fan of that YouTube Live and iG. I'll put all that in your show notes. Lauren, this was awesome. We covered a lot, but I think it was like super concise and right to the point where people can take it away and run with it. So thank you so much. Thanks

Lauren Colenso-Semple  47:47

so much for having me.

Philip Pape  47:50

Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights, please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong.

Ep 138: The Dangers of Low Protein for Longevity

Have you heard the claim that if you eat LESS protein, you’ll live longer?

In this episode, Philip (@witsandweights) debunks the low-protein myth hitting the circuit that says if you want to live longer, you need to eat a LOW PROTEIN diet. Even if it tacked on a couple of years, a low-protein diet would destroy your quality of life and your health span in those years you do have left, assuming it doesn't kill you first, and that's enough to call it dangerous. Today you will learn exactly what these arguments are, whether a low-protein diet has any merit whatsoever, and the optimal level and sources of protein if you want not just a longer lifespan but a longer healthspan.

Episode summary:

The topic of protein intake and its relation to longevity and health has been a subject of much debate in the nutrition and fitness communities. While some advocate for low-protein diets as a means to extend lifespan, the evidence presented here provides compelling arguments against this approach, particularly for the aging population. The episode provides a detailed exploration of why adequate protein intake is not only beneficial but essential for maintaining muscle mass, immune function, and overall health as we age.

The dangers of subscribing to a low-protein diet, especially among older adults, cannot be overstated. As we age, our bodies become less efficient at synthesizing protein, which can lead to sarcopenia, the degenerative loss of muscle mass and strength. This condition not only impairs mobility and the ability to perform daily tasks but also increases the risk of falls and fractures, which are leading causes of mortality in the elderly. The podcast episode challenges the notion that a low-protein diet could contribute to a longer life, pointing out that any potential gains in lifespan would likely come at the cost of reduced health span, quality of life, and increased vulnerability to injury.

Furthermore, the episode dives into the importance of protein for various bodily functions. Protein plays a critical role in supporting the immune system, which is particularly important for fending off illnesses as we grow older. It is also vital for maintaining bone density, thus helping to prevent osteoporosis, and is a key factor in muscle protein synthesis. The episode highlights that higher protein intake is linked to improved metabolic health markers, such as insulin sensitivity, blood pressure regulation, and cholesterol profiles. These benefits are critical for reducing the risk of chronic diseases associated with aging.

When it comes to the source of protein, the podcast underscores the significance of quality. It encourages a diet rich in whole foods, which are the best sources of protein, whether for omnivores, vegetarians, or vegans. It also addresses concerns about protein supplementation, clarifying that while protein powders derived from whole foods can be part of a balanced diet, it's advisable to limit their consumption to no more than a third of one's daily protein intake.

In summary, the episode convincingly argues that adequate protein intake is paramount for a vigorous and healthy life, particularly as we grow older. It provides a thorough examination of the science behind protein and aging, debunking the low-protein longevity myth and advocating for a diet that includes sufficient high-quality protein to support robust health. The take-home message is clear: to maintain muscle mass, strengthen the immune system, and ensure overall well-being, one must not fall prey to the misguided notion that less protein equals a longer life.

The key to aging gracefully and healthfully is not in restricting protein but in embracing a diet that supports our physical needs throughout the life span. The insights provided in this episode are not just a call to action for those seeking to optimize their health but also a reminder of the power of evidence-based nutrition in shaping our understanding of what it truly means to live a robust, strong, and fulfilling life.

Today, you’ll learn all about:

0:00 Intro
2:09 Recent five-star review on the podcast
4:17 Protein is essential for overall health
6:20 Low protein arguments
10:38 The benefits of high protein
22:45 Broad and deep food matrix
29:09 Outro

Episode Resources:

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Transcript

Philip Pape  00:00

Have you heard the claim that you should eat less protein and you'll live longer? Honestly, I couldn't believe it when I first heard this. And even if it did tack on a couple of years, which is highly doubtful based on the science, a low protein diet will destroy your quality of life and your health span. In those years you have left, assuming it doesn't kill you first. And that's enough for me to call it dangerous and put together this episode. So the low protein zealots don't send you in the wrong direction. Stick around. As we get to the bottom of the low protein hypothesis. One of the fresh new claims in the fitness industry to watch out for put on your skepticism hats as we dive into the dangers of low protein for longevity. Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in Wits & Weights

Philip Pape  01:08

community Welcome to another solo episode of the Wits & Weights podcast. In our last episode 137 Unlock abundance in fitness and every other aspect of life with Rebecca Whitman. Rebecca shared her philosophy of the Seven Pillars of abundance challenging us to rethink how we balance our lives, with an emphasis on physical abundance, and specific tips on harnessing your full potential. Today for episode 138 The dangers of low protein for longevity, we are debunking the low protein hypothesis or myth hitting the circuit that says if you want to live longer, you need to eat a low protein diet. You're either shaking your head in shock right now, or curious whether this claim has any merit whatsoever. Either way, today you're going to learn exactly what these arguments are, whether a low protein diet has any merit and the optimal level and sources of protein if you want not just a longer lifespan, but a longer health span. Now before we do this, I do want to share just one of the recent five star reviews today of this podcast that is relevant not just today's episode, but to the mission of the show, and it's from big jags. Very helpful and informative. This podcast is both helpful and informative because he uses science and experience to help you build both build muscle and lift properly, while maintaining a balanced and reasonable diet. And honestly I couldn't have said it better. myself a combination of science and experience. That's what we call evidence right. And building muscle lifting properly and maintaining a reasonable diet. That's really what it's about. So thank you big Jags for that review. And anybody anyone listening. One of the best things ways you could support the show is to do a five star rating and review on Apple or Spotify. Apple's the only platform where you can write in your review and that is very helpful when others are looking for the show. A good show to watch in the nutrition category and really any category and health and fitness. So I would appreciate if you go pause the episode and write a review on Apple, a five star review if you think it is deserved. All right. Let's put on our skeptic hats together, shall we? In today's topic, the dangers of low protein for longevity. Now I didn't believe it until I saw some let's just say not very well muscled fit flu answers. Sorry to be cruel maybe that's as mean as I get on the show, but look them up for yourself. I won't give them a platform by naming them here. But these these fit fluid answers the so called doctors, you know anyone with an MD in their name that uses that as a I'm gonna call it logical fallacy to to assume that they are an expert. They're making the claim that too much protein is a bad thing for older adults. Despite decades upon decades of research that paints a far more, I was gonna say nuanced picture, but I think it's actually a very clear picture about protein proteins effects on longevity. So I will state this unequivocally and with complete confidence, especially knowing how much it has helped clients of all ages of mine, but especially those over 40 and beyond. Protein is essential for muscle maintenance, immune function and overall health. Furthermore, as we age, protein needs actually increase because we want to prevent muscle loss what we call sarcopenia and copious researchers emphasize the importance of adequate protein intake in older adults for maintaining muscle mass and function, low muscle mass as we age, I am convinced at this point, it's probably the number one risk factor for injury and death because the leading cause of death and people over 75 is falling. We live in a world of physical hazards of other humans like our grandkids when we want to play With and carry. I mean, I don't have grandkids, I have daughters. But same ideas as we age, we want to be able to interact with people in a physical way. They need to haul large objects around whether we're grocery shopping, whether you're helping someone move, going on vacation, doing work around the house, working with your hands, all the things we want to do as humans into old age, simply avoiding joint pain and injury. So muscle is arguably far more important than weight management, in the long run, even for obesity as a cure for obesity, just having more muscle, if we're going to stay fit and avoid metabolic disease. So I'm very passionate about this because any message that says the other the opposite. In fact, going to an extreme like many fad diets have over the years of cutting something out or lowering it significantly, must be questioned on its face, the burden of proof is on them. When we look closely at the science, higher protein still appears clearly beneficial, not detrimental in any way for long term health, no matter your age, and even more so as you age. And there are some major problems with these low protein claims. In what is just an ever growing fringe, one of the new of many fringes of the fitness industry, and one of the message missions of the show is to debunk those claims. So let's get into it. What are the low protein arguments? Some researchers argue that excessive protein increases oxidative stress, inflammation, insulin resistance, and some other mechanisms that accelerate aging. And they often cite studies where rodents are fed isolated protein or amino amino acids, and they just live a shorter lifespan. Serious question for you, dear listener? Are you a rat in a laboratory whose diet consists solely of isolated casein protein? No. Now I know that's a that's a bait, a bait type question. Right? It's more sarcasm than anything. But the problem with these rodents studies are that we have studies and observations of longer living primate species. And I think humans are closer to primates, right, because we are primates than rats that show the opposite effect, you know, including studies in humans themselves, increased lifespan higher, but you know, increased lifespan associated with higher chronic protein feeding. And so this suggests pretty strongly that proteins effects likely depend on your overall diet composition, right, you're not just eating amino acids in high amounts while trapped in a cage. And it may differ between mammalian species. And this is actually a very common roadblock that we run into when we try to extrapolate the results of studies on rodents to everyday life as a human. Now, either that, or the researchers running these experiments, don't want those rats, or those mice to get too jacked and overpower them in the lab. And I guess that theory is equally plausible. So you pick the one you want. Alright? Conversely, there are studies like condo at all, which released just this year by this year. I mean, actually, last year when this episode is coming down to in 2023, which were also done on mice using what they call isocaloric, which is equivalent calorie diets at different percentages of protein, I think it was 1525 35 45% of calories. And they showed that intakes of 25 and 30%, or I'm sorry, 25 and 35% are associated with improved metabolic health into old age. And if you were to extrapolate that to human diet, it's right in the ballpark of the recommendations, we often talk about like point A to point one grams per pound, when you're eating, say 2000 calories, and you're an average sized person is going to put you around 2530 35% of your calories being protein. Now those that percentage goes up during fat loss. But fat loss is a short term period, if you're doing it right, it's at most a few months out of the year. And it puts it a little bit less if your calories are higher if you're in a gaining phase. But it's in the range. It's nowhere near what the low protein advocates are talking about. So go figure, right like whether you want to believe the rat studies or or extrapolate from them or not even they have disagreements. Okay, the other big area for the low protein advocates is a very narrow focus on certain pathways like mTOR and IGF one signaling and they attribute the harm from protein to activating these pathways. The problem here is that they ignore that protein supports many other vital health pathways as well. And proteins ability to build to repair to maintain muscle mass and avoid the significant longevity impeding declines that come with that, such as frailty, and weakness in older age, that's a big problem. Like if you don't think of everything in context and you just sit you know, pull out this one, these one or two pathways. So when you assess the entire body of current research, restricting protein intake does not To appear to provide healthy longevity in humans, right? And note the keyword they're healthy. You know, would you rather live a few extra years being sickly and weak, or live a normal robust lifespan, as a strong functioning rambunctious human who has their wits about them, see what I did there, until the day the Grim Reaper calls, that's where I want to be. Right? Now, when assessing the entire body of research, a low protein diet provides very little benefit at all to aging. And here's the worst thing, it can be downright harmful. So now I want to flip it around and say, Well, what are the benefits of higher protein because we have tons of data that show us the benefits of high protein. And by high protein, I really mean a sufficient amount of protein for building muscle and maintaining a healthy lifestyle that just happens to be higher and sometimes much higher than what the average person consumes. And I actually just got my hair cut today, my Barbara was talking about, you know, you know, a lot of people should just be eating a balanced diet, right, we just want a balanced diet. And I said, you know, I agree, what I would challenge about that is what people think of as balanced. Because I think in the modern, especially Western society, everything is so skewed by the food availability and the high, you know, processed food consumption diet, and we don't really understand what balance means. And so when I tell you to eat 150 grams of protein a day, and you're currently eating 50, and you're like, there's no way I can get 150, that's crazy, don't we want to eat a balanced diet, once you've made that shift and realize how it all plays together with the fats and the carbs and the the nutrients and the fiber and everything else, you realize that it is quite balanced, when protein is making up 25% of your calories, that doesn't seem imbalanced. To be honest, that seems pretty reasonable. For most people, protein makes up like 10% of their diet. To me that's imbalanced. So anyway, just that was a side tangent that I think is important. When we say higher protein, right, but way higher than these low protein advocates are talking about. So contrary to whatever outdated dogma they might be referring to, like, you know, it's gonna mess up your liver or something, or kidneys, I'm sorry, increased protein intake, we know improves numerous biomarkers associated with longevity and disease prevention in humans. So for example, research shows higher protein enhances insulin sensitivity, not the other way is we know this, because we also know that it enables more muscle mass. And guess what that increases insulin sensitivity. It enhances blood sugar regulation, blood pressure, your lipid profiles, right, your cholesterol, inflammation status, all of these, which you're probably aware of are crucial for metabolic and cardiovascular health. So higher intakes of protein, whether it's leucine rich animal protein sources, or a diverse plant based diet, as long as it's full of the essential amino acids, and you get enough protein, help preserve muscle mass and strength as we get older. And then this of course, minimizes the risk of sarcopenia. That muscle wasting that happens. We all know older folks, in fact, is the majority of older folks walking around, stooped over weak prone to a fall prone to breaking something, being in the hospital going on a bunch of drugs, getting pneumonia, I hate to paint that picture, but it's reality. And it's all because of muscle mass, it's all comes down to muscle mass. I mean, that's it sarcopenia sarcopenia, and osteopenia are kind of tied together osteopenia or osteoporosis, the loss of bone density, they're all tied together to a lack of strength training a lack of protein. Alright, so preserving more metabolically active muscle clearly outweighs any claim of minor oxidative damage from these pathways, you know from protein metabolism, that are very specious ly claimed in these from these studies. Conversely, having low muscle mass, as I just alluded to dramatically increases your odds of osteoporosis, frailty falls, remember the leading cause of death for those over 75 is falling, injury, and even your mental health, anxiety and depression. There's a correlation between lower muscle mass and higher anxiety and depression, whether it's a direct cause or a proximal cause because of all the terrible things that now happen in your life and your health because you don't have muscle mass. And that leads to anxiety, depression, whatever the reason, there's a very close correlation. Now my 65 year old clients, okay, and I work with people from 30s to their 60s Generally, my 65 year old clients who probably deadlift more than the strongest of these low protein researchers. Sorry, I know that's a low blow but I can't help myself today because it's probably true. If just look them up, please. They're not very well muscle. I think I mentioned that before. As these 65 year old clients are some of the most vibrant, capable, active alive individuals I've ever seen. They are building new muscle tissue for the first time in decades. And by the way, you can build muscle to pretty much the day you die, but there's recent research that shows in your 80s and 90s As you can build new muscle tissue, and that would not be possible without adequate protein, and the low protein level that these researchers are arguing for, is not going to cut it. Again, I would argue that these direct health benefits outweigh any claim oxidative changes or activation of signaling pathways. Hey, this is Philip. And I hope you're enjoying this episode of Wits & Weights, I started Wits & Weights to help people who want to build muscle lose fat and actually look like they lift. I've noticed that when people improve their strength and physique, they not only look and feel better, they transform other areas of their life, their health, their mental resilience and their confidence in everything they do. And since you're listening to this podcast, I assume you want the same things the same success, whether you recently started lifting, or you've been at this for a while and want to optimize and reach a new level of success. Either way, my one on one coaching focused on engineering your physique and body composition is for you. If you want expert guidance and want to get results faster, easier, and with fewer frustrations along the way to actually look like you lift, go to wits & weights.com, and click on coaching, or use the link in my show notes to apply today. I'll ask you a few short questions to decide if we're a good fit. If we are, we'll get you started this week. Now back to the show.

Philip Pape  16:22

Now beyond being just a building block of tissue, protein provides many other essential benefits for health. higher intake supports immune function, antioxidant capacity, bone density, skin integrity, we many of you know the association between proteins and skin, right? It's why people take like to consume Collagen For Skin Health, hormone balance, enzyme production, neurotransmitters, gut microbiome diversity, without adequate protein over time, age related declines in all of these systems accelerate, why would you want to do that to yourself? Research suggests that the older we get, the more protein we may need. And fact approaching the one gram per pound of high quality protein daily. So when you hear about the recommendations for like point seven or point six to one gram per pound, and I always tell you, like just aim for the one you know, it's a little bit of a stretch goal for most people, if you get point eight or point seven, you'll be fine. But the older you get the the closer you actually may want to be to that one gram per pound. Because your efficiency and nutrient utilization and muscle protein synthesis ability declines, right. And so now you're trying to get more, or you're trying to, you get less from the same amount. So you need more of that protein to get what you got when you were younger. Now, omnivores versus vegans versus vegetarians, omnivores are going to have an easier time of this, right of getting a high quality protein and get getting enough of it because of the margin of error, you know, got animal sources, which just make it easy to get your protein, vegetarians who eat dairy and or eggs. Those can be a big source of protein along with plants. And then vegans have to just be very smart about their food selection, and probably have supplementation as well, to ensure the inclusion of all the essential amino acids and you know, good nutrient diversity. What are the benefits, okay, if you listen to this podcast, is there's two other reasons why I like my clients to increase their protein as soon as possible. The first one is satiety, we know that protein has a higher thermic effect of feeding, so burns a few more calories, but it also makes you fuller. So it's a nice benefit in when we're trying to regulate our hunger signals and change the volume of food we eat and the calories we eat. And number two, food quality and selection. You've heard me say this before, maybe not maybe if you're new to the show, if you go to the grocery store, and I tell you to buy protein dominant foods, even have a very hard time buying enough protein if you stick to the middle aisles where all the packaged foods are, you know, other than maybe maybe beans, right and some of the plant foods that have protein, but if you really want a lot of protein, you're gonna go out around the edges, you know, to the the animal sources to the dairy, to the the fresh fat produce, and so on to get your protein meat, meaning if I asked you to greatly increase your protein from say, 50 to 150 grams, you're gonna start eating more whole foods, you're going to take an additive approach to doing that you're not going to be thinking, Well, I'm on a diet. So I need to cut things out, you're gonna think, oh, I want to get more protein, because it's good for my muscle mass on my health and let me figure out how to do that. Okay, so that's the benefits of protein. If you needed to know that at all right? Preaching to the choir, perhaps here. The other piece of this is supplementation. I just want to address briefly, because some researchers worry that there's potential harm specifically from excessive amino acid or protein supplementation and you might say like, okay, maybe that's closer to these mice studies, where they're being fed like pure amino acids. But here's the thing eating whole food protein sources As part of a balanced diet does not carry anywhere near what if there were risks of pure amino acids? Right? Recall again, these key studies and little protein research use rodents fed pure amino acids. Now regardless, if you consume protein from primarily Whole Foods, you will get a balanced diet and nutrition that regulates the absorption of those nutrients properly. And guess what? Protein powders are also technically a whole food in this context, if you think of like whey protein, or pea and rice protein, because they're just a filtered ground up version of a food, right from their for milk, or they're from plants. They're not just amino acids right? Now, something like essential amino acids, or branched chain amino acids bought as a powder form for a pre workout. For example, when you feed, track, train fasted, those are pure amino acids, but you are not consuming very much of those at all, you know, a few grams, like 510 grams of those, you're not consuming hundreds of grams, or whatever it would take to match what these mice are fit. So yeah, having now having said that, we talked about protein powders, just real quick caveat on that, I still think it's a good idea to limit those to like no more than a third of your daily protein at most. If you're using them on a regular basis. Like for some people it may be, it may be a big portion of your daily routine, because you're just trying to get the protein. But then you want to learn that skill and develop those habits of okay, how do I get more and more protein from food? Right? I personally take one or two whey protein shakes every single day. And it probably comprises 15 or 20% of my protein, right? It's not, it's a small amount. It's it's meaningful, but it's not huge. Regardless, it's still from a whole food. So part of the matrix, let's say. Now, thinking of protein in that context of food, and not just as amino acids is important here, because food regulates absorption. And it combines or balances those amino acids with other compounds, other beneficial compounds, many of which we don't even track or label as part of like in the food industry, right? Well, we have our nutrition labels, and we identify ingredients and things like that. Lots of plants have helpful compounds that are just, you don't realize they exist, because we don't talk about them. They're not labeled as micronutrients. They're not put on ingredient, ingredients and on packaging. And yet without the whole food itself, you wouldn't get that compound. It's the same reason I prefer, you know, eating an orange to drinking orange juice or eating an apple to drinking apple juice, or eating vegetables instead of taking greens powders, so that you get all those other compounds. And that's why I also prefer a focus on nutrient quality, nutrient density, you know, eating both plant and animal proteins unless you're vegan or vegetarian, and fiber, right. If you think of all these in your diet, as opposed to just hitting macros, you know that you end up consuming a broad and deep food matrix, think of it as a matrix, like a whole bunch of food combining together to give you this beautiful potpourri of nutrients and compounds. So you'll not only get plenty of protein, but you're also going to support your health that way. And if we're going to get concrete about it, think lean meats, fish, eggs, dairy, beans, lentils, soy nuts, seeds, right, they all contain protein, grains, of course, oats, and quinoa, and, and all of those. So, you know, don't buy into the plant bashing in the carnivore crowd, right, such as the the claim of low protein, digestibility, and plants. And all of that, right, these are far, far outweighed by the many other benefits of plants. Although I still prefer they be part of an omnivorous diet, it's going to make it easier to get what you want and need, but not necessarily, let's just say, also, anytime you cut things out, you're just limiting the number of foods and recipes that you can choose from. And that inhibits flexibility and adherence to your diet. Right? Also the wonderful many ways and flavors to cook things. And then the fiber, the nutrients or compounds that are in plants. Anyway, I'm going off on a tangent about food selection and quality and diet. But I think that's important. And if you're eating that way, and you have sufficient protein, you're golden. Okay. So when we analyze the full body of evidence, a low protein intake clearly and unequivocally worsens many health markers and accelerates aging. I don't see how you can make the argument otherwise, I just don't see it. And I know there's books been written on the topics. Please put your skeptic hat on. Okay, higher protein intake. We know from very well supported research. It preserves muscle it preserves function, resilience, your health, biomarkers, your quality of life into old age, with no clear upper limit of consumption from whole food sources, right? Unless you have a pre existing condition that precludes high protein intake, which is a very small percentage of population. You know who you are. I'm not speaking to you and I'm not a medical doctor. are okay, a daily protein intake of point seven to one gram per pound is optimal for supporting an active lifestyle for individuals who resistance train regularly. And I hope that's you. And if it's not you, if you're listening to you don't resistance train, what are you waiting for? You got to get on that on the on the resistance or resistance train train,

Philip Pape  25:20

okay? You guys are shaking your head. I'm corny sometimes, and I love it. So an activity that everyone should be doing, no matter who you are, until the day you die, is resistance training in some form or another. So consume a high quality omnivorous diet, you know, unless you're restricting your diet on purpose to vegetarian or vegan diet, with an emphasis on whole foods. Pay extra attention, if you know you have to restrict something. So that you get the quantity that you need, you know, high protein throughout your life should maximize your healthspan to match your lifespan, because of how powerful it is and keeping you strong and metabolically flexible. And I have no problem saying that. And anybody who listens to this, who's not eating enough protein, and they take it as their mission to get enough, because of this episode, I'm thrilled, I'm thrilled because I know how much healthier you're gonna be. And you're gonna be able to pack on more muscle and preserve the muscle you have. I personally would rather live a very high quality life by building a sustaining strength and muscle given muscles importance and healthspan so that I can look I can feel I can function my best well into my 80s and 90s. What about you? Is that what you want? Muscle is the answer. Muscle is the answer. And you can't do that without adequate protein. All right. As always, if you need some guidance on your training, on your nutrition on your protein sources, on just how the heck to make this all work. Because you want to get stronger, you want to build muscle, you want to improve your body composition, composition, or you want to lose 20 to 60 pounds of fat in about a six month period, which is a reasonable amount of time to do it the right way. And sustainably. I'm always happy to hop on a call with you. I call it a results breakthrough session. But who cares what it's called, it's a free 30 minute call. Where we just go over the plan we figure out the two or three things holding you back what actions you can take, not a sales pitch, not a sales call in any way. Just go to with go to wits & weights.com and click free call or use the link in my show notes. Again for 30 minutes, results breakthrough session, go to wits & weights.com, click free call or use the link in my show notes. Okay, in our next episode 139 Female strength resistance training hormones and muscle growth with Lauren Kalonzo sample from the mass Research Review. Lauren will be giving you insights into the latest research and strategies on female specific topics. Although men, you are going to love this episode as well, especially if you know women who you support and you want to understand women or you coach them or whatever. And we're gonna go over topics like the menstrual cycle and strength training, which might surprise you satellite cells and muscle growth. What the heck are those? Well, you gotta tune in to find out low energy availability machines versus free weights and functional training. Now check this out. It will also be the very first guest interview on this podcast where my guest and I so that's Lauren and I recorded special bonus content available only to subscribers of my email list. In the bonus video, I asked Lauren for her advice on strength training with machines than dumbbells, and barbells. And she shared exactly how to do that very simply over 10 minutes. She gave you step by step specific tips and things to do in the gym to do that. So if you want that bonus content in your inbox, go to wits & weights.com/bonus to sign up. Now if you're already on my list, which I'm calling the insider's list now, totally free of course, you'll receive a link soon after the episode comes out. It'll be a special email just with that information in it and a link to the unlisted video for you to check out. Again, just go to wits & weights.com/bonus to sign up ahead of time so you make sure to get it and or you can click the link in the show notes, wits & weights.com/bonus, or the link in the show notes. As always, stay strong. And I'll talk to you next time here on the Wits & Weights podcast. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights, please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong

Ep 137: Unlock Abundance in Fitness and Every Other Aspect of Life with Rebecca Whitman

What are the simple lifestyle adjustments that can have a profound impact on your fitness and well-being?

In today’s episode, Philip (@witsandweights) is joined by Rebecca Whitman, an International best-selling author and top-ranked podcast host. Rebecca shares her philosophy of the 7 Pillars of Abundance, challenging you to rethink how to balance your life, emphasizing the physical abundance pillar. From her unique approach to her personal morning routine, you will learn how to embrace abundance, build resilience, and reshape your self-identity to harness your full potential

Rebecca is a graduate of Princeton University with honors. She was awarded Life Coach of the Year and Empowered Woman of the Year by the International Association of Top Professionals. She was named one of the Top 7 Entrepreneurs to Watch in 2023 by “LA Weekly” magazine. She is also the host of the top 1% podcast, "The Balanced, Beautiful, and Abundant Show,” which won the Positive Change Award.

Rebecca, also known as the Magnetic Abundance Mentor, helps people find a harmonious balance among the seven pillars, unlocking more joy and freedom in their lives. She has transformed the lives of many women from burned out to balanced, beautiful, and abundant, including mentoring them to leave toxic relationships and magnetize their soul mates.  She also created the 6 Figure Side Hustle program, helping women exit from unfulfilling jobs to a profitable purpose.

Episode summary:

When we talk about living a balanced and abundant life, it's easy to focus solely on the material aspects – the wealth, the possessions, and the outward signs of success. However, Rebecca Whitman's appearance paints a much more nuanced picture, emphasizing the interconnectivity of various life aspects that contribute to a truly rich and satisfying existence. Rebecca presents the concept of the seven pillars of abundance, a comprehensive approach to achieving holistic happiness.

The seven pillars encompass spiritual, fitness, emotional, romantic, mental, social, and financial well-being. Rebecca eloquently explains that true abundance is not about having an excess in one area, but rather finding a harmonious balance across all aspects of life. The notion is that when we nurture each of these pillars, we create a foundation for a life that is not only prosperous but also meaningful and joy-filled.

One might wonder how such a life can be actualized. The answer lies in the practical strategies Rebecca and Phillip share throughout the podcast. For instance, they emphasize the importance of a morning spiritual routine, which may include practices such as meditation, journaling, or prayer. This not only sets the tone for the day but also helps establish a connection with something greater than oneself, providing a source of comfort and guidance.

In discussing the fitness pillar, the conversation turns to the transformative impact of weight training. Rebecca shares her personal journey, noting that incorporating weights into her fitness regimen was pivotal in achieving the best shape of her life at 52. This segment of the episode challenges the misconception that weightlifting is solely for bulking up, showcasing it as a tool for crafting a leaner, stronger physique.

Nutrition and hydration are not left out of the conversation. They are considered foundational to physical health, affecting energy levels, skin health, and overall wellness. Rebecca talks about her routine of drinking lemon water with electrolytes and the benefits of a Mediterranean diet. She also touches on the need for personalized health routines that cater to one's individual needs, especially during different life stages, such as menopause.

Mental and emotional health are deeply intertwined, and the podcast does not shy away from this connection. Rebecca points out that all emotions stem from love or fear, and by choosing to focus on emotions rooted in love, such as joy and contentment, one can significantly improve their overall well-being. She further discusses the mental pillar, highlighting the importance of continuous learning and engagement of the mind through various means, including listening to podcasts like Wits and Weights.

In the social realm, the importance of community is underscored. The support of like-minded individuals can be a powerful motivator and source of encouragement, particularly when pursuing health and fitness goals. Similarly, the romantic pillar is examined, stressing the need for a partner who supports one's ambitions and lifestyle choices, as this can greatly influence one's path to abundance.

Finally, financial well-being is discussed, not in terms of wealth accumulation, but as a means to achieve freedom and the ability to live life on one's own terms. This reflects a shift from a scarcity mindset, where one is constantly chasing money, to an abundance mindset, where financial stability is seen as a tool for enabling a rich and diverse life experience.

Today, you’ll learn all about:

2:31 Journey from scarcity to abundance
5:17 The 7 pillars of abundance
10:11 Priority or hierarchal order of the pillars
15:41 The HNM philosophy: hydration, nutrition, movement, and meditation
24:43 Your morning routine
30:18 Active mind syndrome
32:55 "Stacking" practices for different pillars of abundance
36:28 25-year break from tennis
40:10 Impact of other pillars on overall health and well-being
44:20 Building resilience against life's obstacles
47:31 Where to find Rebecca
48:47 Outro

Episode Resources:

• Journal Your Way to Abundance

• Fun events – Elegant Warrior Training

• Website: rebeccaelizabethwhitman.com

• IG: @rebeccaewhitman

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Transcript

Rebecca Whitman  00:00

I realized wow, you can actually get leaner and harder if you lift weights, it doesn't mean you're gonna like bulk up and be this bodybuilder if you lift weights and that really changed my whole physique when I started lifting weights and now I'm 52 and I'm in the best shape of my life because I have incorporated weight so that's why another reason I love the title of your podcast Wits & Weights because weight training really changed my life.

Philip Pape  00:29

Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host, Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger, optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition. We'll uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in Wits & Weights community Welcome to another episode of the Wits & Weights Podcast. Today I'm joined by Rebecca Whitman, an international best selling author top ranked podcast hosts a positive force in the world of personal development and empowerment. Rebecca will share her philosophy of the Seven Pillars of abundance, challenging us to rethink how we balance our lives, with a bit of emphasis today on the physical abundance pillar. From her unique approach to her personal morning routine. You'll learn how to embrace abundance, build resilience, be more consistent, and reshape your self identity to harness your full potential. A graduate of Princeton University with honors, Rebecca was awarded Life Coach of the Year and empowered woman of the year by the International Association of top professionals and one of the top seven entrepreneurs to watch in 2023 by LA Weekly magazine. She's also the host of the top 1% podcast the balanced, beautiful and abundant show, which won the positive change award known as the magnetic abundance mentor. Rebecca's approach is designed to help people find a harmonious balance among the seven pillars of abundance, unlocking more joy and freedom in their lives. Rebecca, welcome to the show.

Rebecca Whitman  02:03

Thank you, Phillip. It's great to be here. I love the title of your podcast Wits. & Weights.

Philip Pape  02:09

Yeah, a little bit of alliteration. It came to me while we were at my daughter's soccer game. And I was just like brainstorming in my head. And somehow, somehow it came to me. So appreciate it. So thank you for coming on. And we're talking about abundance today and what that means, what that means in general, but also in the context of health and fitness. So what I'm curious about is, for contrast, is there a time in your life where you didn't? You clearly didn't have abundance, right? Maybe scarcity, whatever we want to call it? How did that experience? How did it feel and how to lead you to where you are today?

Rebecca Whitman  02:43

Well, I was raised in a very competitive house. And by the time I was eight, I was playing national tennis tournament. So I was taught that I had to when my dad literally had a sign in his office, it says, wasn't winning isn't everything. It's the only thing. So that is a scarcity mentality. And that is very like hypervigilant, competitive fight flight. And I did get results with that. I mean, I was, I graduated from Princeton with honors, and I, you know, had some sales records in my early career, and direct sales, but I was absolutely miserable. And not happy, I was overweight, I was having toxic relationships. It was just not a good way to live. And then I hit a bottom in 2003. And I started studying the law of attraction with Michael Beckwith, Abraham Hicks, Wayne Dyer. And I started understanding that I can have a scarcity mentality, or I can have an abundance mentality. And then I combine that with my study of, there's seven different areas of life and then I realized, I have a choice to make and all these seven areas, I can either look at my fitness, my romance, my emotional life, my financial life and an attitude of scarcity or abundance. And that is, that is what I call myself now the magnetic abundance mentor, because I believe that you can raise your vibration and life and magnetize abundance in all seven areas of life. Yeah,

Philip Pape  04:35

I love that. So the zero sum competitive game is kind of that rat race a lot of us live in on a daily basis, especially people who are high achievers, right people who are looking to constantly grow, whether it's personally and professionally and it's this competitive thing. And we I think we put that on a pedestal sometimes right as a positive value and a virtue, whereas what you're suggesting is it's not sustainable, right? It sounded like it burned you out, you were unhappy. And it led to all these other things. So thank you for segue now into the pillars because I want to establish that framework for folks. I always love frameworks and thinking of life as okay. I'm very, like, you know, got the engineering mind, I can imagine these seven buckets, maybe overlapping circles or something like that. You mentioned the seven are most of them spiritual, physical, emotional, romantic, mental, social, and financial, so elaborate on that framework, and then we can dive into a few of those. Sure.

Rebecca Whitman  05:29

So the framework is an order of importance, and how I set up my day and my week in my life. So the first one is spiritual. I am a huge believer in having a morning practice. And that is where I stay, I drink my water, take my supplements, we'll talk about my philosophy and fitness. But it's really where I start to tap into my relationship with my higher power. And I have an amazing tool that I'm going to share with your listeners. It's an abundance journal. And there's a story behind that tool. I'll get into that too, in a minute. But writing in that abundance journal, prayer, meditation, they're non negotiables. For me, the second pillar is fitness. And I don't work out every single day, but I do work out probably six days a week. And it is a combination of tennis, yoga, weight training, and walking. And I really do like having my competitive edge on the tennis court. So I'm not saying there's no room for competition, because it is fun to compete. It's fun to win, and, but I don't want to think of everything in my life as a competition. That is exhausting. The third pillar is emotion. And I do believe that all emotions come from fear, love. If you look at emotions that come from love, and this isn't me, this is A Course in Miracles teaches this. It's appreciation, happiness, contentment, satisfaction, joy comes from love. And then resentment, fear, anger, jealousy, bitterness, it all comes from fear. So you could also call it scarcity or abundance. So all emotions are either in scarcity, there's not enough good to go around, or there's an abundance of good to go around, whatever that is energy, time, money, love. The next pillar of abundance is romance. And romance affects all the areas just like all of them affect all the areas. So if you're with a partner that doesn't support your health and fitness goals, for example, if they want you to order pizza every night and have donuts every morning for breakfast, it's going to be really hard to achieve your health and fitness goals. Same is true with financial, if you want to be an entrepreneur, and swing for the fences and go for wealth and legacy. And they just want you to have a nine to five job and you know, watch TV all weekend, it's probably not a good fit. The next pillar after romance is mental. And that is what we're doing right here on this wonderful podcast Wits & Weights with Philip. And we're working on our mindset and there's many podcasts audibles, it could be learning a new skill, learning a new language, learning a sport, chess, poker, anything to work on your mindset. The next one is social, Your vibe attracts your tribe and community creates immunity. Having a community of like minded people is so important when you have a goal. So if your goal is to be healthy and fit, having a community, whether it's a gym, a Facebook group, a class of other people that have the same goal is critical. And the same is true with money. Having people in a community that want you to succeed financially, and that are on the same path as you that is so crucial. You know, it's the average of the five people you hang out with. Those are the results you have. The final pillar is financial. And that is making enough money to have a freedom. I don't believe in just sitting on a pile of money and doing nothing with it. I believe that life is meant to be lived. And money gives you freedom to do what you want, when you want where you want, and with who you want. And if you don't have enough money, you don't have any freedom. You're like that hamster on a treadmill, constantly just chasing that dollar bill, and you can't think of anything else. So it's important to find a way to get paid what you're worth, and not trade dollars for hours. Because if you're trading dollars for hours, you have limited amount of hours in a week, weeks in a year months in a year, and you will be limiting your income.

Philip Pape  09:50

Great, super concise. Thank you and it is interesting how they do tie together like when you talk about emotion and mental. I've always loved that separation you know Because I think sometimes we tie them all together. But there's really a distinct difference there. And the community part is huge. I mean, it really is huge when it comes to relatedness and having the support to get there. So, with with all of these seven things to focus on, I'm sure you get the question all the time about balance and what to go after, when you mentioned on another podcast podcast that I don't know if it was you, or clients or whoever or women always tend to put love and money at the top of the list, I think you'd mentioned. So you talked about this being an order of priority, is that so you're saying spirituals is the most important? Or is this just for you during a given day, there's a reason you rank me

Rebecca Whitman  10:38

and my teachings, it's just in my opinion, but this is these are the building blocks to build a balanced, beautiful and abundant life. They're there in order of importance, because emotions are over romance and finance. Because if you're miserable, sad, suicidal, what kind of a partner are you going to be? Or we've seen, you know, many rock stars and movie stars and billionaires, OD or commit suicide. So they had their finances together, but they were not emotionally well, so having your emotions in abundance, and love and happiness, that that's important, more important. But I if you notice, I put fitness over emotions, yes. Because if you have your health, you have everything. And if you don't have your house, you don't have anything. You could make a million dollars a minute. And if you're in a hospital with an IV up your nose and you know something in your arm and you're tied to a hospital bed, then what good is it?

Philip Pape  11:44

It's exactly what I've come to find to and in my practice that like if you don't have your physical, sometimes we talked about people talk about three buckets, right? They'll say physical health, wealth, relationships, right? It's kind of really simplistic. And if you don't have your physical you, how can you pursue the others, especially as we age, but I want to focus on the spiritual just for a second, some because I know some people aren't as quote unquote, spiritual and as it could be a loaded term, right? Some people think religion, some people think you mentioned meditation and prayer, or just a, your morning practice, elaborate on that a little bit. So people understand like, why is this? Number one? What makes it number one? And how is that personalized to someone?

Rebecca Whitman  12:25

If you don't have faith in anything, but yourself, that is a lot of pressure, I was an atheist, up until my freshman year in college, and I had literally a breakdown, where I did a fake suicide attempt and took like a bottle of CO Tylenol, because I just couldn't stand the pressure. And think faith in anything greater than yourself is going to give you a peaceful life. I don't care if it's nature, because we're not the ones you know, raising and setting the sun every day, we're not the ones pulling the ocean tides, forward and back. Whatever it is, having faith in anything that's greater than yourself that you can trust that, you know, has your back is it's just amazing to have a partner to go through life with. And you could say, well, it's not scientifically proven, but quantum physics is proven that everything is connected, and there's some kind of order to the chaos. So yeah, having faith in something greater than yourself, I don't care if it's the law of gravity, you know, you're not the person keeping your feet on the earth. But just knowing there's something out there. And then I met this woman at an AAA meeting, her name was Janet. And she taught me how to write and then God journal, she gave me some life changing journal prompts. I started doing that every single day. I've added a few journal prompts of my own, I haven't missed a day for 30 years. And that journal is part of my morning practice because it helps turn my negative thinking to positive. And it helps me see like a bigger picture, like one of the journal prompts is how is God doing for me what I couldn't do for myself. That is opening up my mind that there is a benevolent force in a friendly universe. And that just that one journal prompt, changed my whole way of thinking. And I'm actually going to give this journal as a gift to your listeners.

Philip Pape  14:28

Yeah, no, I love that. And people people listening for me a long time. No, I've struggled with journaling myself over the years and I'm actually in the midst of using a journal again sociate with another friend of mine, he has a thing going on there. But what comes to mind with all of this spiritual thing because I'm very open minded is purpose, right? Like is someone's purpose. The same thing, like the fact that someone is trying to do something beyond themselves, and that drives them. Would you say it's the same thing or is that something else?

Rebecca Whitman  15:00

I think your purpose is different than a relationship. Okay? With a higher power, your purpose can be anything. And actually, I have a free guide on my website, Rebecca Elizabeth whitman.com. And that the guide is called Find Your meaningful and magnetic purpose. But yeah, purpose to me is what you're put on this earth to do what lights you up what your mission is, and spiritual. I mean, it could tie into your spirituality, but I feel like the two don't have to be connected this can be its own separate relationship.

Philip Pape  15:40

Okay, no, I love that. So let's focus on the second pillar, which which I know we wanted to get into today, the physical and your personal philosophy of fitness. I think in our we had a text conversation and you mentioned the term H and M, to refer to hydration, nutrition, movement and meditation. So again, frameworks, I love it, you know, the acronyms and letters and all that. So the fact that you start with hydration is very interesting. But just tell us more about this overall philosophy. And we get into details.

Rebecca Whitman  16:08

Yeah, I believe in h&m, not the discount store. Although I do love the discount store. Like you said, hydration, nutrition, movement meditation. So hydration is everything. I'm actually drinking my water right now. And it's got phytonutrients and electrolytes in it. That's another thing, I promote a brand for health and wellness. And I believe hydration is so critical for just everything. One of the things that I do, as soon as I wake up is I drink lemon water, at least 16 ounces, and I have some electrolytes in that. And then I will have I do I do participate in caffeine, I'm not gonna say, which makes hydration even more important. So I believe that we should be drinking half our weight in ounces of water. I don't think the water has to be plain, I'm all about like putting extra supplements to jazz it up. But yeah, 90 ounces of water is so important, especially if you are taking a lot of supplements. And especially if you're working out because the body needs that water to process everything through. I didn't even drink a lot of water, like growing up, it wasn't a thing. Now all these kids are walking everywhere with their water bottles, and there's water bottle stickers, and everyone's like be hydrated. But it does make a great difference to me and my health and just in my skin. How I feel. So that's the first Yeah,

Philip Pape  17:44

let's just focus on that for a second. The fact you put it first is is kind of innovative because most most people don't write it, they'll put it in, they'll kind of put it as an afterthought. And I have clients all the time who say, you know, I'm hungry this week, or, or a client recently and said, You know, I started drinking more like you suggested and my energy is better is that a thing and it's absolutely like your body needs water for everything it does every function you can imagine. And the electrolytes is also good because people do drink a lot of caffeine. And if they can maybe complement that with a glass of water with some lemon and salt or electrolytes, it's gonna make a huge difference. And then your skin right, especially for ladies, you know, I know, I know, everybody skin is important, but you know, women tend to focus on that. So starting with hydration, very innovative. I just wanted to point that out, and they'll let you continue with the nutrition.

Rebecca Whitman  18:29

Yeah, and I love putting electrolytes in my water because a lot of us are mineral deficient, because our farmlands are depleted of minerals. So even though they're doing the same crops year in and year out, there's less and less minerals that the crops are garnering from the soil. So yeah, I'm all about electrolytes in the water.

Philip Pape  18:51

Well, let me let me ask about that. Which electrolytes do you find is magnesium high on the list? Would you say like which electrolytes do we find are most efficient? And how do you address those with with the electrolytes and also do you get it from fruit for example?

Rebecca Whitman  19:06

Yeah, well, I actually there's a product. It's got all the electrolytes magnesium is one of them. Plus it has Silla jet. Do you know what that is? I actually don't. It's a new superfood. It's it's like resin that they scrape off of caves in the Himalayas. Interesting. gives you energy naturally. So it's got electrolytes and she loves it and it I also use a brand called trace minerals. I put that in my lemon water, and they have just a general mineral formula and then they have one with fulvic acid. I also put molecular hydrogen on my water sometimes too. If I'm at a restaurant, I have little molecular hydrogen pills that I'll drop in the water to just again, jazz it up make it more exciting. Electric molecular Hi Hydrogen is really good for just cellular function, energy clarity. The next is nutrition. I am a believer in the Mediterranean diet, which is the blue zone diet. It's a low inflammation diet. It's a lot of vegetables, fish eggs, and I don't eat meat. I don't eat gluten. I don't eat dairy. And I don't eat. I mean up their sugar and everything naturally. I don't eat things with a lot of sugar. Though

Philip Pape  20:35

the Mediterranean diet does have lean meats in there for just completeness. Yeah. Okay.

Rebecca Whitman  20:39

For those who want to eat lean meats, it is in there. Yeah, absolutely. So that diet has really worked for me. I didn't do well, on the high fat, low carb diet, I actually blew up my gallbladder and needed an emergency gallbladder removal, because I was doing like too much fat. So I don't think that works for everybody. So I don't like avoid fat, I have avocados. And sometimes I'll have gi but I don't like put fat on my coffee every day or do that. Yeah,

Philip Pape  21:18

and then we talk about nutrition all the time here, you've got to find something that works for you. And even though no one diet can be proclaimed perfect for any one person, the Mediterranean diet definitely leans toward kind of the whole food health matrix, you know, the whole food matrix getting all your nutrients in there. So it's pretty solid. Yeah.

Rebecca Whitman  21:36

And I like what Dr. Gundry says that food is just a delivery system for olive oil. So I think that is that is that is the healthy fat that I can tolerate. So the next M is for movement. I changed my workout. When I hit menopause, I was doing HIIT training that was like, cardio, two minutes of weights and two minutes is sprinting on the treadmill. And I would walk back to my car just like in a puddle of sweat. I you know, it was a lot. And I did that for a long time. And then I, I hit menopause. And I changed it up because I studied it. And it's like, you're not supposed to work out that hard as you did like, as a youngster like so now I do HIIT training, but it's, it's with a gym franchise that you probably know Phillip called f 45. And they have like more resistance training. And it's still hit, you still do stations with you know, a few seconds of rest in between sets. But it's I do more the weight resistance days. And then I do that three days a week, I also walk my dog every single day. My goal is 5000 steps. I don't hit it every day. But that's my intention to hit it. I do yoga, once a week. And then I play tennis a couple of times a week for cardio. It's a game called live ball where there's a lot of running around a tennis court. So I really believe for fitness, it should be a combination of strength, flexibility and cardio. And I feel like I'm hitting all those things.

Philip Pape  23:22

I agree we you know, people are listening, and they always wonder like, what's the best program for them? Or how should they do it and like you said it, first of all can change with your life. Like when you said you had menopause you know, the energy needs change, and your capabilities change and all this other stuff. But also, you got to enjoy it. I mean, you've gotta have to enjoy it. You know, if you're if you're walking, walk out in nature with your dog, if you you know, if you want to be flexible or have some mindfulness yoga, or stretching or whatever works for you. And then throwing in some fun activities in there like tennis is great. So it's a good reminder to folks to to keep it well rounded and do what works for you.

23:56

The most value that I got from this was the fact that I had someone that I could talk to about anything and that there was going to be no judgement, it was just Well, here are your goals, here's the best way that you're going to achieve it. And then let's work together to help you feel inspired and motivated to do that. And a lot of people out there trying to be coaches and not all of them have done the work and also just be a genuine person that is positive and coming from the heart in terms of wanting to help and Phillip really embodied all of those qualities I would recommend him to just about anyone that's looking to achieve goals in that realm of their nutrition and building new habits.

Rebecca Whitman  24:41

I am a big believer of ClassPass before I joined F 45 I call myself a gym slet because I had a DD and I didn't want to like just go to the same gym and do the same workout all the time. I used to do before I really studied and understood how important weight Training was, I was the I called it my super model workout, 45 minutes of cardio on this on the step mill, or the bike, and then 15 minutes of stretching and abs, and I was doing absolutely no strength. And then I realized, wow, you can actually get leaner, and hotter. If you lift weights, it doesn't mean you're gonna like bulk up and be this bodybuilder if you lift weights, and that really changed my whole physique when I started lifting weights. And now, I'm 52 and I'm in the best shape of my life because I have incorporated weight. So that's why another reason I love the title of your podcast Wits & Weights, because weight training really changed my life.

Philip Pape  25:44

I mean, Rebecca, we are all over that. And it's a message that has to get out there for men men know it kind of but but you're right women, it's like a different approach. And you just think about what it takes to get bulky, like a man to get bulky. It's a lot of work, it would be, you know, usually on drugs too. But not often women are not going to get bulky. Like if you if you have that lean, strong physique. That's where it comes from. And guess what you get to eat more food, you don't have to be dieting, you know, you can be more functional, capable for the other things, the list goes on and on. So I always love to hear that it's a great message.

Rebecca Whitman  26:16

And I do have a cheat day. Friday is my cheat day. I call it fun food Friday. And I can eat anything I want. But I feel like even though I can have a total cheat day, I still still doing like, my cheat will be like, you know, a vegan, gluten free piece of cheesecake. But it'll still be like within the parameters. But I could, you know, it's nice to know that on one day, I can eat anything I want. So that's the the fitness strategy. And if I don't work out in the morning, it's not happening. So I believe in doing it first thing in the morning. It builds my confidence. It gives me that cocktail of feel good hormones, serotonin, dopamine and endorphins. And it's just a great way to start my day.

Philip Pape  27:03

Yeah, you know, let's hold on that because it's interesting, I used to be very agnostic about that. You'll find out I'm the kind of guy who like, I want to please everyone. So you know, I'll just kind of be agnostic on things. The morning versus the evening training, you know, the evidence shows that ultimately, whatever works for you works for you. And that, you know, afternoon training was shown to be a slightly better for lifting. But it turns out that morning training has tremendous amount of other benefits, like you mentioned, related to your cortisol, other hormones, the endorphins, also your mood, like so many things that probably far outweigh any other little benefit evening training has, again, you have to do what works for you, right. But I do want the listener to know that if they haven't tried training in the morning, and they're like, oh, I don't want to get up early and just do it. Just do it for like a week or two and see, see how it makes you feel.

Rebecca Whitman  27:52

It used to be really hard for me to get up early and train, I would work out at like a 930 or 10 o'clock class. And then I married a morning person. And we work out together we lift weights three days a week, he likes to work out at 530. I like to work out at 930. So we met in the middle and now I work out at like 730 or eight. And because of that I can do intermittent fasting and have a fasted workout. And that's also very controversial. I know, some people say you should have protein first thing in the morning before your workout. But I feel like I do a pre workout drink. And that gives me a lot of energy. And then I go to the gym and lift weights and and then I have breakfast afterwards. That's when I have my protein. And it really, it's been really working for me. I really like having a fasted workout. Cool.

Philip Pape  28:40

Yeah, it depends on what works for you. So if it works for you, because I've had I've had clients who I'll have them try training fed. And they're like, this just doesn't work as well. I think I'll say like eight out of 10 people seem to do better when they start eating but then you know, others will find the other. So it really depends. I don't know. Yeah, really? Yeah,

Rebecca Whitman  29:03

it really depends. And if I workout later in the morning, I do need to eat because I get hungry during the workout. Good feeling. So that's the H hydration and nutrient nutrition, M is movement. The other M is meditation. And that is mindfulness. So you can get that during a yoga class. I really like a guided meditation app called Insight Timer. I'm sure a lot of your listeners have listened to it. There's millions of people on there. And on Insight Timer app. Depending on how much time I have if I have anywhere from one minute to 45 minutes, I can find a meditation that works within that parameter and just set up the meditation with my air pods and just listen and just relax and I really enjoy guided meditation because you can have some with affirmations for abundance or confidence or whatever it is that you're working on. And you can find that guided meditation and it's kinda like reprogramming your mind on a subconscious level. And I gotta be honest, a lot of times I just fall asleep. But that's okay too, because I know that it's working on a subconscious level.

Philip Pape  30:16

I was joking with people about active mind syndrome, right? A lot of us just, we cannot shut the mind off. Even when we try to meditate. It's like, we get distracted. Do you have thoughts on that? I know, I've always heard the advice is just just keep doing it. You know, you'll get used to it. And it's okay. Even if you do have thoughts, like, it's all okay, but what are your thoughts on that?

Rebecca Whitman  30:34

I think of our thoughts as watching cars drive down the highway. And if you can learn to like say, oh, you know, I'm thinking about, you know, what I'm gonna have for dinner, I'm thinking about what that person said to me at work or whatever, like, and just name it, then you can detach from it. But the whole point for me of meditation is detaching from my thoughts and realizing I am not my thoughts, you know, I have a soul that is connected to the divine. And it's tapping into that again that relationship which is the first pillar of spirituality, and not getting caught up in my thoughts because I used to think I am my thoughts, I am my emotions, but I am more than that. And so are you love it?

Philip Pape  31:21

I love it. So like cars driving by I've heard the leaves floating on the river, right? Kind of just going by and you look at them and you detach from them is what you're saying. So that's beautiful. You mentioned your morning training, both the spirituality and the journaling. You mentioned fitness, was there anything else in the morning routine that you wanted to share?

Rebecca Whitman  31:43

I do too. It's a lot. I do take my supplements in the morning. I take a liquid collagen, totally obsessed with it. It's liquid collagen and hyaluronic acid. And it has completely changed my muscles, my joints, my my strength. It's really changed everything. That product I take first thing in the morning I take glutathione

Philip Pape  32:07

does. Let me quit. Quick question about that one. Does it happen to have curcumin or anything like that as well? Or do you know

Rebecca Whitman  32:12

the collagen? I don't think it I don't think the version I take does just curious. I take a glutathione in the morning, I take NAD and I take d H E A in the morning. And then I drink my lemon water. And then after that I will have coffee or tea I go back and forth. And I'll while I'm having my coffee or tea I will do my morning practice which is writing in my abundance journal, reading from a couple of spiritual books and doing a little bit of prayer meditation and and then I'm off to the gym.

Philip Pape  32:53

Now what about people who say, Oh, I can't find the time, you know, and I can't do I can't devote every morning to this whole ritual. Because I'm sure.

Rebecca Whitman  33:03

Yeah, it doesn't take that much time. I mean, taking my supplements, a lot of people say I don't have time to take supplements. But really, it takes like two minutes once you get it as part of your routine. Making the lemon water takes another couple of minutes. I don't do the lemon like premade I actually squeeze the lemon. I don't think it takes more than 20 minutes to do everything. The supplements making my coffee or tea sitting down writing. I mean I've I've got it down to 20 minutes at the most so I don't have like a two or three hour elaborate morning routine because I'm I'm to Taipei I'm too busy. I want to get on to the next thing. And I also really love sleep. That's another thing that is really important to my fitness that isn't an h&m, maybe I should call it h n h and m s because that sleep oh my god, like when I have seven or eight hours of sleep. I can function at such a higher level if I if I dip to even six hours of sleep and I know everybody's different. I just don't feel as good. Yeah,

Philip Pape  34:15

that is massive. And it's true. Everybody's different. And some people make excuses for being different. Like you know what I'm saying? Like they'll say well, I'm the kind that can get by on five, five and a half hours of sleep. And I kind of call BS on that usually like we'll try getting two more hours. This even tells me that it doesn't make a difference. It's funny because I I was getting consistently six and a half hours and I knew it wasn't enough and I have an aura ring to that kind of helps. But then then after I had surgery for my rotator cuff in the summer and I started sleeping more just because I couldn't train as much and I shifted an extra half hour that's all it was. And to this day I kept that extra half hour and that made all the difference. Like you go from like 45 minutes a deep sleep to like an hour and a half of deep Sleep just from that little extra change. And the other thing is I'm a big fan of like sleep hacks. I don't know, if you have things like a sleep mask or blue blocker glasses or like blackout curtains, do you have any kind of hacks that you'd like to use for sleep quality?

Rebecca Whitman  35:12

The only hack, and this is a really tough one for people is not to bring my cell phone to the bed. That is a boundary that I set with myself. It's a hard one because I'm addicted to my phone like everybody else is. But I'm just like, I'm just not going to bring my cell phone into the bed. Because I don't want to look at the blue light right before I go to bed. And I turned my cell phone to airplane mode.

Philip Pape  35:41

Because there's like, yeah, all the notifications. Oh, you mean the EMG? Yeah, like some

Rebecca Whitman  35:47

frequency that's not good for your on a cellular level. Yeah, when the internet and everything and all the Wi Fi is going through your phone. I also keep my phone in another room. I don't keep it right next to my bed. So those are some of my you

Philip Pape  36:02

know, there's something to that with the electromagnetic waves, right? Because we got a new microwave like a year ago that leaks compared to our last microwave. And you could tell because it starts to interfere with Bluetooth and Wi Fi when devices near it. And you're like, Oh, this is good. You know, this is good. But they're all in the similar frequencies. So that kind of tells you something. We think microwave radiation is super dangerous, right? If you get exposed, right. So that's that's funny. Another thing related to fitness that you shared in the text we were talking about, I think was the hiatus you took from tennis. And then you wanted to talk a little bit about that. You took a 25 year hiatus playing? Yeah, okay. Tell us about that. Yeah,

Rebecca Whitman  36:37

I was really burned out on tennis. Because, again, I did not have a spiritual awakening until I was 20 years old. I thought that if I wanted tennis, I was a worthwhile human being. And if I lost a tennis I was not a worthwhile human being and hitting a second serve. And a third set, tiebreaker was like am my body the same as like, you know, jumping out of the way of a freight train, like it was just really putting my adrenals into overload. And it just wasn't fun anymore. And it was a really tough decision. But I got into Princeton to play on their tennis team. And then I quit after my sophomore year. And I went to Italy, and I realized they had a whole different philosophy of life. It was like a two hour lunch. And everybody was in a good mood. And they're living like to enjoy life, not just to get results and to win and to get accomplishments. And I was like, I don't want to play tennis anymore. So I came back from that junior year abroad, I quit the tennis team. And then I didn't pick up a racket for 25 years, I was just into working out taking classes. I was like, I don't want to do competition. I'm over it. And then a friend of mine asked me to hit with him a high school friend that happened to me living in LA. And I did and I had fun. And then I found out about this fun game of women playing in the park. And I had to remind myself like okay, this is like a bunch of middle aged women playing in a park I do not need to like get stressed out like this is the finals of Wimbledon or something. So I had to like really work on calming my my sense of competition down so I can enjoy it. And I made friends with everyone. And it's I've been playing ever since and getting better ever since. So I play like once or twice a week and, and it's been a lot of fun to have a fitness activity that I'm that I'm really good at. And I also feel connected to my younger self, you know, a teenage version of myself that I've kind of like left behind. I've reconnected with that part of myself. And it's been really healing.

Philip Pape  38:52

I love that story of rediscovery because you don't just because something you had a bad experience connected with something doesn't mean that that that thing was the cause of it, per se, right. It was other factors of how you approach that back in your younger days. I had another guest on recently was a runner, similar experience. He was like, burned out from running marathons. He was in the Boston Marathon, all that when he was younger, took a break came back to it older and wiser and was like, just gonna, like, take it easy. Have fun with it, you know, like, really enjoy it. So people can learn a lot from that. And I guess anyone listening who, who feels stressed out by something that they're doing doesn't have to be that way, right? You're saying it's

Rebecca Whitman  39:30

gonna be fun. Like, that's the whole point of fitness. Like, who wants to do it if it's not going to be fun? Yeah.

Philip Pape  39:35

And it's funny with lifting weights. A lot of people will say, Well, yeah, I don't really like lifting weights. And when you look at the mode that they lift with, you find that it may not be for them, like the way that they live. Let's say they're lifting, they're doing 10 movements, and they're doing a circuit style, and they're just sweating and hate it, you know, and they like, Well, why don't we just lift really heavy but you only have to do these three things and with all this rest period, and all that sounds hard to and then they do it like, wait a minute, this is fun, because it's not associated with the negative things about lifting that I had before. Anyway, I'm rambling here, but with the pillars, we talked about quite a bit about physical, which of the others would you say, contributes the most or you'd like to talk about relative to physical fitness. So once you have the physical stuff kind of dialed in, does it then really enhance one of the others more, or just one of the others, if you work on it really enhance your physical fitness?

Rebecca Whitman  40:29

I think the fitness really enhances the emotions. Because when you are feeling fit and strong, you are just happier you're confident you. And that affects romance, because you are going to be more attractive to the opposite sex when you're feeling fit and strong and comfortable in your body. So I would say those two and also I mean, they're all connected to fitness, because also money. You know, when you feel like you've done a really hard workout, and you lifted heavy weights, and you've really challenged your body, you're like, wow, that's the hardest thing I have to do today, like having that Zoom or having that meeting is, is going to be easier than lifting that heavy weight. So I feel like it really fitness affects all the areas. And that's why it's, you know, the second pillar, because it affects all the areas and I believe that you should schedule your workout on Sunday night, schedule your workouts and prioritize and make your your week work around your fitness and body before business. And if you don't have the money to go to a fancy gym or hire a celebrity trainer, like Philip, you can just walk. There's so many videos on YouTube, like during the pandemic, Amazon sold out of weights, because everybody was just doing weight training at home and on YouTube, there's so many ways to work out if you really, really want to do it. So whether you have the financial means or not, if you really want to do it, I mean, you could just do walking and push ups and sit ups like anything you can do to move your body is it's just so worth it. And another thing, a huge hack that I'm going to share with your audience that changed my life is having affirmations with your weight training. So if you're doing weight training, and you're bored, you can combine having affirmations with your weight training. Like I am enough, I have enough, I am willing to set myself free. And that is called an incantation. And that is something I learned from Tony Robbins that really reprograms your mind on a deeper level. When you combine affirmations with physical movement, there's so

Philip Pape  42:51

much that I love so first of all, you have a couple of what my friend Carla called notable quotables that I'm gonna mention here. One was, make your week work around your fitness. I love that. I love that so much. Because the biggest excuse is consistency in time. Like I don't have time for him. Like if this is the most important thing for you, you're gonna have time for it. And other things are much less important and shouldn't even exist. Not not shouldn't exist, but they won't exist without your fitness. The other thing you said is body before business. That's a good I'm sure you said that before because it came right off here. rolled off your tongue body before business. Not having financial excuses. Like you know, big box gyms are pretty dirt cheap. Like, I mean, maybe this is gonna sound inappropriate. But I've heard how homeless people will get a membership at a big box gym big ticket their showers, because it's the cheapest way to go. You know what I mean? Like, yeah,

Rebecca Whitman  43:41

yeah, 10 or 20 bucks a month. Yeah, so

Philip Pape  43:43

that shouldn't be an excuse. And then the affirmations are their weight training. That's an interesting one. My friend and former client, Alan and I always talk about how lifting is a form of mindfulness, especially if you turn off the music, right? If you're doing it like especially if you're in a home gym, and it's very quiet. Just getting under a heavy squat can be a form of, you can't think of anything else, the thoughts go away, and you're just focused on the activity and you're breathing and you're bracing. So the folks listening like this is kind of a form of habit stacking, right, doing multiple things at once and getting the most out of it. I love it. I just wanted to comment on that. But yeah, so you also mentioned resilience, like when you work out hard, you feel confident. I think that's a really important message too. So when we talk about developing resilience, because that's another topic you you talk about, is that is that one of the important ways to do it, or how does it align with the different ways we develop resilience against obstacles? Well, weight training

Rebecca Whitman  44:38

is resilience training, you have to break down the muscle before it can get stronger. So I think of certain people in my life that has that have caused me a lot of financial or emotional train pain as trainers, right? They broke me down financially and I had to figure out how to build my financial reserves. have backup or they broke me down emotionally, they hurt me. And they were like an emotional trainer for me. So it's a way to think of pain differently. I think. In the gym, we understand our relationship with pain, we know that no pain, no gain, if it doesn't challenge me, it doesn't change me. And we understand that there is some pain and getting in shape. But when it comes to life, we don't want to feel any pain. We will shop we will gamble, we will have sex we will, you know, do anything drink use drugs, not to feel pain, but it's the same thing in life. You know, pain is not to be feared. Because pain will teach you something and challenge you and it will, it will sculpt your soul the way the weights sculpt your body. So yeah, don't be scared of pain. And, and if you meditate, you know that you're not your emotions. So it's okay to feel the painful emotions, and then let them just pass through you. Bringing

Philip Pape  46:00

us back to spiritual, right? Like I love it. It all ties together. All right. So I know we're almost out on time here. But is there a question that you wish I had asked? And if so, what is your answer?

Rebecca Whitman  46:13

Oh, my God, you're so funny. I don't know you. This has been a very thorough interview, I think you've covered everything. I would just like to tell your listeners how lucky you are to be able to work out. Like you get to listen to a fitness podcast like Philips you get to learn about working out and diet and fitness. Because there's so many people in the world that physically cannot work out. They just don't have the strength or the wellness to be able to even work out. So the fact that we're even in this conversation is so like fortunate and we're so blessed. So I think if you think of your workout as a blessing, and something you get to do, rather than you have to do, it will change everything in your fitness like it is such a privilege to be able to move your body and workout that so many people would just only dream about.

Philip Pape  47:17

I love it your workouts a blessing. It's a privilege, something you get to do. This is this has been beautiful there. We did cover a lot. And I love where the conversation went. So I appreciate your time here. Where can listeners learn more about you and your work?

Rebecca Whitman  47:31

Yeah, so I would love to give you guys that abundance journal that has absolutely changed my life. And that will be in my link tree link. I also have a lot of fun events coming up. I have elegant Warrior Training starting mid January, right about when this podcast is coming out. We're starting a class where every week for seven weeks, we're going to do a deep dive into the seven pillars and give you tips, tools and strategies to get that area of your life to a level 10. We are going to help you overcome limiting beliefs and just slay all your goals for the new year. So I highly recommend that you message me or set up a breakthrough call. That's another thing. In my link tree you can set up a breakthrough call. I only open three spots a week in my schedule, and I give you free coaching for 30 minutes on how to get unstuck. And yeah, I would love to keep in touch with you through my website Rebecca Elizabeth whitman.com, or my Instagram clubhouse, Twitter threads. It's all Rebecca E. Whitman. And all of that will be shared in the show notes. So I look forward to staying in touch with all of you guys.

Philip Pape  48:45

You got it. It'll be in the show notes, even external the events, the website, the ID, all of it. And again, thank you so much for your time. super valuable listeners, I'm sure turn learned a ton from today. So thank you, Rebecca.

Rebecca Whitman  48:56

Thank you, Philip.

Philip Pape  48:59

Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights, please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong

Ep 136: How to Maintain a Lean Physique Year-Round (Without Cuts or Bulks)

How do you transition out of a dieting phase to maintain your results? Do you keep cycling between cutting and bulking? Or can you live at maintenance for a while, and if so, how do you do it effectively?

In this episode, Philip (@witsandweights) shares a proven blueprint to effortlessly transition out of a fat loss phase or an intense cut into a sustainable maintenance phase so you can recover from the deficit as quickly as possible, optimize your performance without going to extremes, and lock in your hard-earned lean physique year-round. 

Maintenance is a critical but often overlooked fitness phase, especially when transitioning from a fat-loss period. Even though cuts and bulks are often emphasized for those going after body composition changes, sometimes living at maintenance is the best option to sustain an optimal physique and performance level that has already been achieved. Maintenance allows for metabolic recovery from a calorie deficit. Athletes who rely on a particular strength-to-weight ratio should avoid the extreme changes that come with cuts and bulks, and sustaining an ideal physique year-round provides its form of consistency.

Episode summary:

Achieving and maintaining a lean physique throughout the year is a common goal for many fitness enthusiasts. It's an admirable pursuit that often becomes entangled with the complications of strict dieting and the frustrating yo-yo effect of weight fluctuations.

The discussion opened with an important focus on the transition from a dieting phase to a sustainable maintenance phase. This is a crucial period where individuals often struggle. The mindset shift required during this phase is not insignificant; it demands a psychological adjustment that acknowledges the importance of a balanced lifestyle over the allure of extreme dieting. It's not just about hitting your target weight but learning how to sustain it without the need for continuous cycles of cutting and bulking.

Nutrition and training strategies were dissected in detail, with an emphasis on metabolic recovery and performance optimization. Listeners were provided with practical advice on how to navigate the common pitfalls that can derail maintenance efforts. One of the pivotal aspects of this transition is understanding how to adjust macronutrient intake to support long-term leanness. It involves fine-tuning the balance of proteins, carbohydrates, and fats in a way that complements the body's energy requirements and supports hormonal balance.

One of the more technical discussions in the episode revolved around the concept of the 'top side of maintenance.' This approach encourages individuals to slightly overshoot maintenance calories to facilitate metabolic recovery and avoid accidental deficits. This strategy, combined with monitoring biofeedback and energy levels, ensures proper recovery and helps maintain an optimal body composition.

The psychological hurdles that accompany the increase in calorie intake post-dieting cannot be understated. The initial weight fluctuations due to water retention can be disheartening, but understanding the physiological changes that occur during this period can help maintain perspective. It's essential to trust the process and recognize that these changes are part of the body's natural equilibrium process.

Training strategies, including the pros and cons of fasted training, were also explored. The podcast provided nuanced advice on how to approach training during a maintenance phase, emphasizing the importance of protein intake throughout the day and discussing the benefits of supplements like creatine monohydrate.

In conclusion, the episode emphasized the importance of a holistic approach to fitness, one that incorporates physical abundance as part of a broader philosophy of abundance in life. It's not just about reaching fitness goals; it's about empowering overall well-being and living a balanced, strong, and abundant life.

Today, you’ll learn all about:

3:07  What inspired this episode
7:21  What is maintenance, and why is it important?
10:16  Psychological shift to maintenance
16:06  The physiology of maintenance
20:19  Setting calories and macros for maintenance
24:32  Jumping to your maintenance calories
27:41  Weekly adjustments
31:53  Structuring your nutrition around your workout
35:01  Two advanced strategies
38:44  Five common pitfalls during maintenance
49:34  Outro 

Episode Resources:

• Free Rapid Fat Loss Guide

• MacroFactor app – use code WITSANDWEIGHTS to extend your free trial to two weeks (and support me and this show!)

• Ep 96: Why Reverse Dieting Doesn't Work Like You Think (and What to Do Instead)

• Ep 116: 7 Lessons from My Rapid Fat Loss Micro-Cut (Aggressive Dieting is Not for Everyone!)

• Ep 126: More Carbs, More Muscle (Why Low-Carb and Keto Are Keeping You Skinny Fat)

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Transcript

Philip Pape  00:00

How do you transition out of a dieting phase to maintain your results, you finally reached your fat loss goal. And now what to keep that hard earned lean physique without overshooting and gaining a bunch of weight or fat? Do you keep cycling between cutting and bulking? Or can you live in maintenance for a while? And if so, how do you do it effectively? Today, I'll share with you an evidence based approach to help you seamlessly transition out of an intense or prolonged calorie deficit, so you can sustain your physique and optimize your performance. We'll get into everything you need to know including mindset metrics, nutrition, training, and common pitfalls so you can master maintenance with confidence. Maybe your goal is to stay photoshoot shredded year round, to maximize your strength to weight ratio as an athlete or just enjoy your results without going straight into a bulk and gaining more fat. Either way, you'll learn in this episode, How To sustain your results for the long term. Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in. Wits & Weights community Welcome to another solo episode of the Wits & Weights podcast in our last episode 135 The truth about testosterone for women's health with Karen Martel. Karen was back to chat about the role of testosterone and women's health and vitality who might benefit from testosterone therapy, common questions related to the benefits, safety, dosage and much more today for episode 136. How to maintain a lean physique year round. Without cuts or bulks. I'm equipping you with a blueprint to effortlessly transition out of a fat loss phase or an intense cut into a sustainable maintenance phase so that you can recover quickly from the deficit as quickly as possible. Optimize your performance without going to extremes and lock in your heart and lean physique year round. Maintenance is a critical but often overlooked phase of fitness. It's kind of sounds boring, just staying where you are. But it's very important especially when transitioning from a fat loss period. And even though we often emphasize cuts and bulks for those going after body composition changes, sometimes living at maintenance. What you've heard called the magic of maintenance is the best option when you're looking to sustain an optimal physique and performance level that you've already worked hard to achieve. Maintenance allows for metabolic recovery from that calorie deficit. And for example, athletes who rely on a particular strength to weight ratio might want to avoid extreme changes that come with cuts and bulks. And honestly sustaining an ideal physique year round provides its own form of predictability and consistency. Now, I'll be honest, I wasn't even considering doing an episode about maintenance because it's not that sexy of a topic. But one of our listeners, Neal reached out to me last month on Instagram at Wits & Weights and he inspired this episode, I'd like to read what he sent me because, you know, he made some good points. It inspired the episode and I thought many of you who listened to the show would relate to them. He said quote, hi Philip. I recently found your podcast and I'm really loving it. I have successfully used a high protein macro factor tracking flexible dieting approach to achieve about 10 to 12% body fat, and I'm 50 years old congrats me on that. I do strength training and nutrition to help achieve my athletic goals in rock climbing where I perform at a relatively high level. One thing I've noticed in the fitness industry is that about 70% of nutrition discussion focuses on fat loss, and 30% focuses on bulking however, pretty much 0% is focused on maintenance. This is unfortunate because the performance period of many athletes is best when they are consuming maintenance level calories. In addition, I imagine that most people find a body composition that they are happy with. But there's almost no information how to maintain this composition. Through combining exercise and nutrition over long periods of time. I believe many people would like to go from cut to maintenance rather than to a bulk. However, I found this is not easy. I would love to hear more discussion about what happens to the body after going from a cut to maintenance. How can we make this transition psychologically? How can we expect our body to adapt? Can we expect some weight gain or loss during this transition? What are people's experience with this? I would love to hear you discuss this on your podcast. I assume you have a lot of experience with maintenance periods and I think your audience would love to hear about how you program in maintenance for clients. Awesome,

Philip Pape  04:48

awesome question. I'm so glad you asked me that Neil. And that's what this episode is all about. And if you're listening thank you first of all for listening to the show and supporting it, but also for bringing this up and inspiring the episode. I just hope I do it justice for you and that you find it helpful. My personal experience is that there are often more psychological, more mental challenges than anything when it comes to staying at maintenance, especially for those of us who are always chasing that next goal. So I'll be covering all of those aspects today those in the physical ones as well. Of course, by the way, today's episode is brought to you by Wits. &. Weights nutrition coaching, yes, I'm promoting myself because this show is completely ad free. So why not? I started Wits & Weights to help people who want to build muscle lose fat, who want to look like they lift. And if that's you, if that resonates with you, my one on one coaching focused on engineering your physique and body composition is for you. If you want expert guidance and want to get results faster, easier, with fewer frustrations along the way to actually look like you live, just go to wits & weights.com/coaching, or use the link in my show notes to apply. I'll ask you a few short questions to decide if we're a good fit. And if we aren't, we'll get you started this week. And by the way, I don't keep anything secret. I don't hide anything behind my program. If you go to wits, & weights.com/coaching, you can watch a video where I walk you through the entire process. And then when you apply I'll be fully upfront about the price. I'll answer any questions, you have no high pressure sales calls, no funnels, nothing like that, because I don't like that stuff. And I'll be honest, though, if you're new to this podcast, you might want to check out some of my other episodes first to get to know me and make sure I'm a good fit for you. Because there are a lot of nutrition coaches out there. There's a ton if you've if you follow social media, and you've got to like and trust the person that you are going to work with. One other thing you can do is step into our Facebook community and ask others what they think and get a vibe for the community and my style of coaching. And then the last thing is if you want a world class education in personalized nutrition, without the cost of going to college or dozens of courses, coaching could be perfect tea for you because I take a very education centric approach. So you'll learn a ton in the process. So if you're driven to learn if you have a high level of curiosity, if you love to take action to improve your health, I think you'll love working with me again, just go to wits & weights.com/coaching to apply or click the link in my show notes. Alright, with that, let's get into today's topic, the blueprints for maintaining a lean physique year round, without cuts, or books. Let's start with what is maintenance. And why is the maintenance phase. So important? First, if you don't know what I'm talking about, maintenance simply refers to eating the same amount of calories you burn, so that you maintain your weight, you don't gain weight, you don't lose weight, your maintenance calories. A maintenance phase, or what we might call living at maintenance for the long term, or even months or even years is meant to sustain the physique and performance level that you achieved during a cut. Okay, fat loss phase. So if you've never gone through a muscle building phase, and then a subsequent fat loss phase are cut to improve your body composition, maintenance probably won't be very helpful other than to achieve body re composition for individuals who are new to lifting or returning from a long absence or as a prep phase for a fat loss phase. So today's episode is not really about body recomp and maintenance for beginners, but rather shifting from cutting to maintenance so that you can sustain your results. Now, it's still relevant to everyone listening because all of you want to get to that point. And it will happen pretty quickly if you you know, follow the advice we talked about on the show. Other athletes like athletes, or other populations, like athletes might find this relevant as well for sure, just like Neil, who wrote in about, you know, being a rock climber. So really anyone coming out of a fat loss phase is going to benefit from this discussion. The question is, why is it beneficial? Alright, one reason maintenance is helpful is it prevents having to plan for and endure and constantly tweak and go through these constant cycles of cutting and bulking some people just don't want to do that and constantly be gaining and losing weight. Maintenance also allows you to consolidate your progress and kind of stay there and celebrate it and hold on to it for a while rather than what might seem like undoing your fat loss. So to speak during a subsequent bulk you're not you're not really going to undo your fat loss, you're going to use a bulk to build muscle but many people have that perception and if you feel more comfortable in it and maintenance first this could be a reason why it's also helpful like I mentioned before, for athletes who are in say, weight class sports or fitness competitors, models, actors, essentially anyone wanting to stay lean long term without driving themselves crazy with the big changes that come with cuts and bolts. And again, I don't doesn't drive me crazy to do those things. Lots of us love to go through that those cycles but many of you don't want to do that or don't need to or need to stay at maintenance for other reasons. All right. So to recap a maintenance phase avoids the yo yo effect of body composition. It prevents your metabolic adaptation from going Going up and down all the time, right. So you can say relatively consistent with your expenditure. It improves hormones and energy because you're not in a deficit. So this is really important when we talk about energy availability. And then it cultivates a constant or consistent diet and training lifestyle. So that's the that's sort of the intro to maintenance. Now, let's talk about the psychological shift to maintenance, because this is probably the thing that holds people up the most. Transitioning to maintenance, after you worked really hard in a calorie deficit, can be mentally taxing. In fact, I've had clients who work with me, for the sole purpose of getting to that point of what it's like to successfully come out of a diet into maintenance, really, like on the call when we talk, they're like, Yeah, I want to lose fat. But really, I want to learn what it takes to come out of fat loss and not be scared of gaining weight, or actually gaining weight, and repeating the cycle I've done in the past. So you listening to this, my dear listener may experience this fear of regaining weight, or too much fat if you increase those calories, especially after you've been in a prolonged deficit. And it almost feels counterintuitive, right after you've dieted down for so long. So what I want you to understand is that a calorie increase to get back to maintenance, combined with smart training is absolutely 100% necessary to sustain your long term leanness, because we don't want to stay in a diet, that's a fact. So the only thing that's not a diet is at least being back to maintenance. Now, remember, you are not going into a surplus by eating more, you're simply coming out of a low energy state of a calorie deficit and returning to a state where you will not lose or gain weight. So just wrap your head around, right is that you're not, you're not over eating, to come to maintenance, you are stopping the under eating, it's a difference. So give yourself permission to eat more, while trusting the process. And hopefully going through this episode and referring to it again in the future will help you do that. Avoid thinking in extremes or getting anxious over small changes. It's really about being patient, controlling what you can, the thing that's in your sphere of influence, hitting your macros training hard, and not getting fixated on skill weight. Because when you go to maintenance, it's very common to fear the scale weight increases, especially since you will, you will gain a few pounds initially from water weight, just accept that that is going to happen. Okay. However, you don't want to slow down your recovery by keeping the calories too low. I just spoke to somebody earlier today, whose expenditure was dropping after she went back to maintenance. And it's probably because she's still under eating even though it's more than when she was dieting. It's not quite enough. And so the body is not quite recovering. And so this could just prolong the effects of being in the deficit, which is what we're trying to avoid. Now, if you're using macro factor, you'll know your exact expenditure at any given point in time. And you can confidently increase calories. Immediately, literally the next day if you want to, to your post diet maintenance level, post diet maintenance level, not the not the maintenance level before you started the diet, the maintenance level you're at right now. And then that level, that expenditure should then start to rise as your hormones and energy recovering. And the caveat is if they don't, you're probably still under eating, if no other variables have changed. Like obviously, if you if your step count goes from 15,000 to 2000, that would be another cause of your expenditure dropping. But assuming nothing else changes, your hormones and energy should start to recover. And this is where it's important to trust the process and not react to short term fluctuations because you'll see things that happen that just may not make sense in the short term like with your scale weight, it may feel like you're taking a step back, because it seems like you're eating too much. For example, for some people, it's like wow, this just seems like a lot of calories, or the extra carbs make you feel a bit fuller or bloated because of the additional glycogen and water retention. But this whole thing we're talking about here is a transition period. All of these feelings are normal. And this is where that that mental resilience and patients are going to be your friend as you stick with it and come out the other side. So patience is required to get through this phase until you see from your longer term weight trend. Okay, we're talking three, four weeks and longer and your biofeedback right how you feel your energy, your sleep or stress. Based on all of that

Philip Pape  14:44

it will tell you that yes, you are indeed at a new level of energy and performance. And guess what, you're not going to all of a sudden gain a bunch of weight other than that small bump initially from water weight, you should more or less maintain your weight. And even the person I spoke about earlier whose expenditure started to drop her weight went up by maybe two pounds over two months since coming out of the diet. And most of that was at the beginning because of the water. The last tip I have for the mental side is track and measure those things that you can control, that should be moving in a positive direction. This could be the most important tip of all, because this is what gives you clarity, and awareness to know that your choices are causing a certain outcome. So this would include your calories and macros, your lifts, your sleep, the self care practices to help manage stress, all of those things, you should feel a whole lot better at maintenance pretty quickly if you fully recover to your current expenditure. So on one hand, if you're not, you know, something is not quite recovered. And then on the other hand, if you are, I want you to embrace that, embrace that, because that means it's working. Alright, so that's, that's the psychological piece of it, that there isn't a lot more other than trusting the process, being patient, and being aware of what's going on. And knowing that certain things are going to happen that seem counterintuitive at first, but they're really not. So now let's talk about the physiology of maintenance, right? What's happening to your body physically, because then this awareness can also further improve your mental perception of the situation. So when transitioning from a cut to maintenance, you're going to get this fluid shift in the scale weights going to rebound, as I mentioned before, and it could be by what I see with my clients, anywhere from three to five pounds, it's probably less than that, but I want to prepare you mentally for it. And if you're a little bit bigger, if you're a bigger man, for example, you might be up to four or five pounds on the scale weight of pure fluid shifts, okay, it's gonna be more or less depending on the relative size, but it's important to be aware of that. This is just glycogen storage, this is intracellular water normalizing back to their full levels. As you increase calories, also, this is a different thing that happens, hunger hormones, leptin gralen, those improve, so your satiety or fullness should increase. If you are experiencing hunger during a diet, that should start to dissipate and go away. Right, your appetite and hunger should go back to normal levels. Now, again, it may not the transition period is the period where you just trust the process and you don't react. After that after let's say, three, four weeks, the hunger should be back to normal. If you're still experiencing hunger, that's a possible sign that you're still under eating. Now, here's the other thing, your metabolism will definitely well, I'll say likely, but almost definitely have down regulated have decreased from the calorie deficit, right metabolic adaptation. This adaptation should reverse when you go back to maintenance calories, right. However, it may remain a little bit suppressed for a few weeks during the transition period. So again, transition period trust the process. And this is why there's a little hack that I like to use with my clients. And I've mentioned it before, called the top side of maintenance. So if you're using macro factors, this is really easy. Instead of just setting a goal to maintain knowing that a, you're going to actually gain a few pounds to be at the beginning anyway. And you don't want math per factor to be maintaining you an artificially low weight. But then be, you want to make sure to recover as fast as possible, what we're going to do is set the app to a goal of gain, but the rate of gain to as small as possible. So there's a little slider, you're gonna go left well below the green area to almost no gain at all. But it's still considered a gain from the apps perspective. And so the app will give you a calorie target to eat to consume that slightly overshoots your maintenance calories. And we're doing this with the expectation that your expenditure will start increasing quickly as it recovers, and helps you avoid being in an accidental deficit. And that's the guidance I just gave the person I mentioned earlier, is why don't we overshoot. And she's not doing it this way. She's she's set a goal to maintain. But she's over consuming by 50 to 100 calories every day, at my suggestion to see if that actually helps her recover fully. And she's in a kind of a suppressed state right now. But a nice easy way to do it a macro factor without having to think about it is just set it to a game with a really low rate, however you do it. The key here is to manage your expectations. Your body prefers homeostasis, right prefers to be at a stable state. So it will be regaining equilibrium through multiple adaptations. It's not a simple linear thing, right? There's a lot of hormones, there's a lot of complexity involved. And as you improve and as your energy improves, it cascades and helps other things improve as well. Like for example, you could sleep more or you can train harder, right and then these will all feed on themselves. So to recap physiologically during maintenance in the transition to maintenance. It is normal for glycogen storage and intracellular water to balance meaning you're gonna get a bump in weight. There are multiple signals at in your body that regulates homeostasis. So it's more complex than you realize you are not regaining fat, and you are not losing muscle. And your fat cells are filling with water during the transition. Very important understand all of that. So we don't overreact during that transition. Alright, so now let's move to some practical matters. First off, how do you set your calories and macros for maintenance? You might think that being a maintenance means you no longer need to track your food. My answer to that is maybe one of the interesting challenges that maintenance is that you are aiming to avoid going into an accidental diet, you know, deficit or diet, which would impede your energy and performance. But you're also trying to avoid gaining weight too quickly and producing unnecessary fat regain. So you could eat intuitively based on the skills that you've built so far. And I have had a few clients that take this approach that eat a lot of Whole Foods, they are in touch with their hunger signals. And they track when they gain and they lose, but they don't track on maintenance. I've definitely seen this work. My recommendation here, however, is continue tracking for a while until you're completely confident in those skills and intuition. Okay, I spoke about this with Dr. Eric helms on he was on the show. And even he It took years and years for him to develop that, right. And he recommends most people track in some way. It doesn't hurt to track and measure the things that you want more confidence in measuring, right and being aware of, especially, especially when you still harbor some of that, you know, fear about going to maintenance, whether it's fear of gaining weight or any other fears. So, having said that, what do those targets? What do those minimums look like? And here we go. As soon as you're done with your cut, I want you to increase calories as quickly as possible to your current expenditure, your current maintenance calories, not the maintenance calories before you started the diet, the ones you're ending the diet with, which means you would have had to track to that point to know what those are. And using a tool like macro factor or a spreadsheet, or some other way to estimate it. Right? Because Because apps like My Fitness Pal chronometer aren't going to do that for you. And or they'll do it. And it's actually completely wrong. I've talked about this before, I don't want to rehash all that. But be careful what tool you use. The trick here is that you must know your current dynamic maintenance to be able to do that. I did an episode I don't have the number with me right now. It was about reverse dieting versus recovery dieting. So you can go back and find it. I think the title was why reverse dieting doesn't work like you think. Right. And the idea is that a reverse diet is increasing calories slowly by let's say 200 calories this week, 200 calories next week, until your body recovers after diet. The problem with that approach is first of all, it's guesswork. Secondly, it takes too long. And third, it doesn't provide any benefits that people claim that it provides. For whatever. There are many benefits that it claims I talked about in the episode one of them being you can, you know, increase your metabolism and make dieting easier next time. For example, there's a whole bunch of claims that are just false. Whereas recovery dieting is simply going from your deficit to no deficit. That's all it is. It's going from a deficit up to zero deficit. And the rate, the way you know you're at zero deficit is your eating what you burn, you have to know what to burn. That's it. So if you don't already use macro factor, literally the only food logging app in existence that does this correctly. Pause right now download it from your app store, use my code Wits & Weights all one word, Wits & Weights, to extend your free trial by a week, give it a shot, you'll need to use it for about three weeks to get a good idea of your true maintenance calories. Now, hopefully

Philip Pape  23:42

you already used macro factor during your dieting phase, and now have the confidence to jump right to your maintenance calories. Okay, that's we're kind of assuming you've gone through that you've tracked you know where it is, and you can jump otherwise. It's hard. I mean, it's harder to know what to jump back to without overshooting or under shooting because if you undershoot you're not going to be getting enough recovery, and if you overshoot, of course, the fear of gaining weight becomes true because you could that's what happens to most people with a yo yo cycle throughout their life is a comeback. And they over consume. Not to mention they're not training, so they're losing muscle, and then they're gaining only fat and all that good stuff. Alright, so the the caveat with the macro factor thing of jumping straight to your dynamic maintenance is that if you were in a fairly aggressive diet, like 1000 calorie deficit or more, let's say the jump back might feel like too much to do in like one or two days. That's all it might feel like wow, I you know, your stomach can't even handle it. Your digestion, that's fine. It's okay to titrate it up over a few days, let's say two or 300 calories a day. Until you get there your body will adapt quickly. This is not a reverse diet. Reverse diet is like okay, we're just gonna shift by 200 calories this week. See what happens. All right now we're gonna shift by 200 calories next week. See what happens? Totally different. This is just quickly jumping calories until you get to what you know you want to be right now. It's like stair stepping up to creaminess. Hey, this is Philip. And I hope you're enjoying this episode of Wits & Weights, I started Wits & Weights to help people who want to build muscle lose fat and actually look like they lift. I've noticed that when people improve their strength and physique, they not only look and feel better, they transform other areas of their life, their health, their mental resilience and their confidence in everything they do. And since you're listening to this podcast, I assume you want the same things the same success, whether you recently started lifting, or you've been at this for a while and want to optimize and reach a new level of success. Either way, my one on one coaching focused on engineering your physique and body composition is for you. If you want expert guidance and want to get results faster, easier, and with fewer frustrations along the way to actually look like you lift, go to wits & weights.com, and click on coaching, or use the link in my show notes to apply today, I'll ask you a few short questions to decide if we're a good fit. If we are, we'll get you started this week. Now back to the show. So that's calories. Now within the calories. You know, we talk about macros all the time, but we're going to reiterate, protein should be set around 0.7 to one gram per pound of your new body weight, fat, probably around 30% of the calories, maybe more, maybe less. And then the rest is carbs. So when you do the math, you'll see that the biggest jump comes from carbs, because protein should be around what it was during the diet. If anything, it might come down a little bit, excuse me. And then the fat comes up. Because it's scaled, it's scaled to calories, right 30% of your calories and lower calorie, it's going to be hired higher calorie, obviously. But then the rest is carbs. And so carbs will see the biggest jump. And that is where some of the fear and the feelings around weight gain and fat gain come into play. I know it, I hear it all the time. That's where the fear comes is like, oh boy, I have to I have to eat this many more carbs. Now. I look at it as I get to eat all these extra carbs and the energy is going to flood in. And hopefully you can shift to having that positive approach. And trust the process and enjoy those carbs for the added performance recovery energy that they bring you. We love carbs on this show. This is not a low carb diet show. Okay? Now you can consume a low carb diet, and I'll be your friend and you can get results. But we are not anti CARB is my point if you have no intolerances. And if you enjoy carbs, they are a beautiful part of a flexible lifestyle and will help tremendously when you're trying to build muscle. So here that was my car brands for today's episode. So once you've jumped up, you've got your protein, fat, and then carbs increased to where they need to be over the next say two to four weeks, you're likely going to make weekly adjustments in response to your metabolism, which may start climbing, though it may not everyone responds a bit differently. Okay, the key here is not to fall into an accidental deficit, because we want to at least ensure give us the best chance of that complete recovery as fast as possible. And by chance, I don't mean it's not going to happen for you, it will. But I've definitely seen cases where your body needs more energy than you think it does for the maintenance. And because you're still under eating a little bit, it slows down the recovery. So if you're using macro factor, this is super easy. Any other app will require a lot more manual calculation on your part to keep up with your expenditure. But either way, also track and monitor the things that you care about during this process. Okay, strength and progress and your lifts, circumference measurements, biofeedback, all the things we talked about track track track, you see, I'm a big fan of data and tracking and awareness. I have calls with people all the time who are looking for guidance, or you know, we have a results breakthrough session or they're interested in coaching. And I'm always No, I shouldn't say I'm surprised because I've been there and we've all been there. But I was gonna say I'm always surprised at how little they're tracking things that could have given them an answer weeks or months ago. For example, just tracking your waist measurement weekly, can reveal a lot of things if you hit a plateau on your scale way, like if you hit if you're in a dieting phase and your scale weight plateaus. And let's say it plateaus for three weeks, but your waist dropped by an inch and a half during that three weeks. You may be you may have been gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time. And that caused the scale way to flatline. However you are becoming leaner, right? Little things like that. And so that's not a judgment on anyone. In fact, it's why I want you to reach out to me and schedule a call and talk so we can go over what you're doing and say, Hey, let's audit you know what you're tracking. If there's a couple things you could just add to your tracking portfolio, so to speak, that are easy and give you a more awareness that's going to that's going to really accelerate your progress. So remember that your activity level also affects your expenditure. Okay, and you're going to have more Energy to lift. Now with the carbs in the calories, you're gonna be able to lift a bit harder a bit heavier, you're probably gonna be able to walk and move more consciously or unconsciously sub or consciously, or what's the word I'm looking for? Subconscious that Yes. And all of these things would further ramp up your metabolism. So it's very interesting. When you actually get all the energy, you need to recover from a cut to a maintenance, it starts to feed on itself. And your expenditure does not remain fixed. I mean, this is the big, the big irony of being at maintenance that to maintain your weight, you need to adjust your calories regularly and not assume there'll be the same. That's why I said tracking versus Intuitive Eating is going to be more beneficial for a lot of people.

Philip Pape  30:44

The rules of higher protein for building muscle of improving your body composition still apply. But now much higher carbs are part of the equation, especially if you're trying to build muscle. So you know, a low carb keto diet is going to make that much harder. It just is right and we're talking about going back to maintenance and be recovered and building muscle. Check out my episode 126 on that actually, it's called more carbs, more muscle by low carb and keto are keeping you skinny fat. I got a lot of great comments on that one, including some hater comments, which I always love, you know, people who they see the title, don't even listen to the episode. And it's like, Oh, can you tell people that you know, you have, you should eat all these carbs, it's terrible for your health, you're gonna get fat or, you know, no, you could build muscle just fine and a low carb. And it's like, listen to the show and listen to the full context, please, before we reach out, and for those who do and then offer criticism and critique, Oh, I love you guys. Like it's great. We need to have those dialogues and conversations because not one thing is going to work for everyone. And I never claimed that everyone should be eating moderate to high carb diets. what I claim is you should not cut out anything when evidence doesn't support cutting it out. Okay. Now that brings us to how to structure your nutrition around your workouts. So we talked about the calories and the carbs, the extra carbs are going to make it easier to fuel your workouts. Still, you want to shift a large part of your carbs around your workout. Well, we call parry workout, right? This maximizes your energy during your lifting sessions. It also maximizes the repair the hypertrophy response of your muscles, the protein sparing effect of of that and subsequent recovery. So not only do we like the carbs, we'd like to time the carbs around our workouts, put it in the numbers, the numbers are as follows. I recommend 25 to 40 grams of protein before and after training and about 30 to 50 grams of carbs pre workout, up to 100 grams of carbs post workout in something like a two to one or three to one ratio of carbs to protein. So I know he just threw a lot of numbers at you. But it's basically get a decent amount of protein before and after. Get a decent amount of carbs before and after. But definitely a lot of carbs after and maybe even more carbs than that. If you're a calorie support, I do not recommend fasted training. However, if you must do to your schedule, do your medications, or it works well for you. And you really love, you know time restricted feeding intermittent fasting, that approach and that works for you, then do it right, if I don't recommend it as a default is what I'm trying to say. I recommend trying both approaches. And don't assume that there's some extra benefit intermittent fasting. Now, I don't know if it came out before after this episode. I think it's after this episode, there's a conversation I had with a gentleman where we talked about intermittent fasting and he does it because it makes him feel good. Right and his body's used to it and great, that's awesome. Plus he has intolerances with a bunch of types of foods that contain certain carb sources. If you train fasted, you might want to gulp down some essential amino acids before we work out. That's the only scenario where I think they're probably helpful. Other than that, they're a waste of money and you don't need them. If you're not training faster. Definitely whoever you are, consider taking creatine monohydrate right unless you're allergic to it, which actually is a thing I had one client in all my time that was allergic to it. And I'd never seen that my entire life since before or since but it's possible. But yeah, creatine monohydrate five grams a day that can be taken post workout or really whenever it's convenient, hot cold with without caffeine, don't overthink it. And of course, space your protein throughout the day, across at least three meals, but more likely four or five, depending on how many calories you need. Now why am i Repeating lots of things that I've said before on previous episodes. First of all, this may be the first episode you've heard with me. Secondly, when we're talking about maintenance, I want this to be sort of a definitive guide of okay, your backup maintenance. We need to treat this seriously and take a solid nutrition and training approach. There's nothing you know, it's not like a cakewalk. It's still requires being in control and thinking and having awareness and making choices. But it can still be a very flexible liberating approach we can Take. All right, now I'm going to share two advanced strategies that I use with clients. Since Neil did ask about what I do with clients. The first is, I already alluded to it. And it's to use an extremely lean gain instead of pure maintenance. All right, now I mentioned setting macro factor to again, and going with a very low rate. What I'm talking about here is maybe a little bit more than that. So not quite a normal gain of like, point one 2.3% of your body weight, but maybe point 05 Or point 08. I know, it sounds like how can you be that precise? Well, again, if you're using manufacturer, or if you're working with a coach, we can be that precise. You know, within reason, it's close enough. Now I like this very lean gain, because it almost guarantees that you don't dip into an energy starving deficit, even the smallest one, even just for a couple of days that can impede your performance. And for Neil and others who are athletes, you know, who are worried about strength to weight ratio, I like this, because you're really not gonna gain much weight at all, it's gonna be over a very long period of time, but you're going to ensure that you have the energy flooding in, because you're effectively here in a building phase, not nearly the amount needed to maximize muscle gain. But the benefit is also you're not going to really gain much fat at as a trade off right as a trade off of also not really gaining much muscle because it's not a true muscle building phase, you're also going to ensure that you have a lot of energy flooding in and not be gaining fat as well. So you're trying to have your cake and eat it too, if you will, an actual cake you can have too, if you want. Okay, which leads me to the second strategy of micro cuts. So the first strategy is extreme lean gain, extremely lean gain, I should call it not extreme, just a an extreme lean, lean gain. The second strategy is micro cuts. Now I did an entire episode about this episode 116, titled seven lessons from my rapid fat loss. micro cut, aggressive dieting is not for everyone. Important to say the whole title there. And you can check that out since episode 116. And I have a free guide that goes with it called the Rapid Fat Loss guide. That explains the entire protocol. And in case I don't have the link in this show notes in the show notes for this episode, you can always go to wits & weights.com/free, okay, wits & weights.com/free. And you can find all those guides in there. So the Rapid Fat Loss guide is what it's called. And I bring this up, because if you if you indeed, slowly gain a few extra pounds by being in the Lean gain strategy, one I just mentioned. And that's going to happen over months, like that's not going to happen over days or weeks, it's going to take a long time, but you might actually start gaining very, very slowly over time, you can use this rapid, very aggressive fat loss phase of either a nine day phase, or 15 days, 15 days is the protocol I have in there, but you could cut out the last, it's three segments, you can cut out the last segment and do the first two segments if you want to have it even shorter.

Philip Pape  38:09

And that can cut a few pounds of fat while holding on the lean muscle and effectively reset your body composition back to the full leanness that you started with for the maintenance phase. That makes sense. So you can use a lean gain. And then after a few months, you know you've packed on an extra three pounds or something or four pounds and not much at all. That's beyond the waterway I'm talking about, we're talking about just a combination of some muscle and fat, you can then use a two or three a nine or 15 Day micro cut to just lop off a little bit of that fat. So think about that strategy. Okay, it's pretty cool. Last thing I want to address is some of the pitfalls I see. Okay, I came up with a list of five common pitfalls during maintenance, how to avoid them how to troubleshoot them, it is a given. Okay, it's a given with all of this, that you are continuing to train hard. If you did a proper fat loss phase where you are training hard, keeping the intensity variable high, right intensity, meaning percentage of your one rep max, right, the load on the bar, keeping that high during a fat loss phase you held on to most of your muscle, you're continuing that now back into maintenance, if not training even harder now. Maybe you're training, changing your programming, adding more volume, whatever it is, we should be able to train even harder. I'm going to assume you're doing that and not even put that on this list. Otherwise, that would be a six pitfall of just, hey, you're not training heavy enough. Okay, you got to do that. But here are the five things that I see number one, not tracking. He knew that was coming, not tracking and thus you end up relying on reverse dieting, and then that just takes too long or you overshoot your maintenance and you get unnecessary fat gain the thing that you're probably afraid of, you need to know your expenditure to return to it quickly and achieve full metabolic recovery, taking advantage of that high energy state as soon as possible. And if you If you do that a macro factor and you set your if you go back to maintenance, and let's say your metabolism has been suppressed by like 500 calories since when you started the diet. So you've gone from, let's say 2500 to 2000. And now you're in you were in a deficit below 2000, of course, and now you're coming back to 2000. It's okay to want to overshoot that just a little bit, when you first start consuming food, like overshoot it by 50 calories, or maybe even 100 calories, to make sure that you get that recovery, because your metabolism might be an over responder, and it starts to climb fast, and macro factor can't really like keep up with it, because it's just responding a little bit reactively to what's happening. Whereas you can be even more proactive by over consuming just a tiny bit. But because you know that number, the overconsumption is controlled, it's restrained, just just the right amount to push it along. Okay, so tracking is gonna help with all of that. Number two, the second pitfall is freaking out. Because the initial weight bump, and going back into a diet, in response, or even worse, slightly under eating and thinking, your maintenance, but still being in a diet. So this is more of an intentional thing, this is not the accidental one, this is you being scared, seeing the weight go up, oh, no, I must be gaining fat. And now you you step back, and you under consume, even though the target is telling you eat 2000 calories, you're like, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna try to stay lean, I'm gonna eat 1900 calories. You're shooting yourself in the foot by doing this because you're not trusting the process, and you're not getting the recovery and guess what you're doing, you're just prolonging your diet. And now you're not, you're going to mentally think you're not in a diet while you're in a diet. And you're not going to lose any weight either. Because it's so small of the diet, you get the worst of all the world, it's it's a lose, lose, lose. So even though you might freak out, trust the process. Number three, not increasing carbs enough and taking advantage of the energy and hormonal recovery. Or conversely, reducing protein and compromising your muscle retention and recovery. So I'm combining this all into one, protein should be about the same fats will come up a bit and carbs will come up a lot. That's what it should look like. Don't be afraid of carbs, embrace them. Again, unless you're on a specific protocol. That's a lower carb approach. And you're increasing calories by increasing fats and protein, like on a keto diet, for example, unless you're doing that, and if that's you, cool, do that. For most people, they want to have the extra carbs. But they don't want to have the extra carbs if you know what I mean. They know they need it. They know the target. The new targets say they need it. But something about it. eating all those extra carbs doesn't seem right to them. For some reason you know who you are, you're listening. And what we want to do there is think about carbs as the missing fuel that that we can finally introduce into our body. From that fat loss phase, it was one of the most critical fuel sources were missing. And now that we're going to get it back who watch what happens to our lifts, watch what happens to our sleep, watch what happens our hormones, watch what happens to our metabolism, your metabolism should go up faster once you have that recovery. So don't be afraid of carbs, embrace them. Number four. The fourth common pitfall I see is reducing your movement or your steps just because you're not in fat loss anymore. Right? Many of us we will ramp up our step count during fat loss, we'll go from like 8000 steps a day to 12 14,000 steps a day like yeah, this is great. I'm keeping that expenditure dry. And then you get out of the diet, you're like, Okay, I can go back to 6000 steps or 8000 steps. Well, that's going to blunt the metabolic recovery because you're reducing your energy flux. If the amount of steps you were able to get to in fat loss is sustainable, and it didn't feel forced. Keep that up, right, like keep that keep that consistent. Don't give it up just because you think you don't need it anymore. It can only help. It helps with cardiovascular health. It helps with metabolic health, your energy flux for your metabolism, your resilience, your digestion, your blood sugar, control, your sleep, it helps us all that stuff, hunger signals, right,

Philip Pape  44:10

keep it up. Now, if you were, let's say artificially bumping your step countering fat loss with some extra cardio or some extra walks that were not quite sustainable, but you were doing them for the fat loss phase. Well, I then naturally, I could understand why those would come down a bit, just know that that can cause a little bit of an offset in your expenditure. It may not right, it may not like I've seen plenty of folks, myself included, that you're lifting so much harder, and your body is so much more relaxed. Now because of calories coming in that even though your step count went down, it doesn't really make much of a dent in your expenditure. It's a very complex multivariate system we've got going on with our body here. The last the fifth common pitfall is adding in too much processed food instead of sticking with the approach that you developed during fat loss which is nutrient density, high protein, high fiber, right? Yes, we want to have flexibility. That's the whole point of something that you can stick with. But also we want to keep those current habits and the discipline you've developed, going. So what I recommend when the calories come up, and it's mostly in the form of carbs, just scale up some of the carbs you were eating and reintroduce some of the Whole Foods, sources of carbs that you've been missing, whether that's oats, rye, oats, rice, quinoa, you know, starches, fruits, you know, even breads and pastas, but just things you've been missing, they're mostly Whole Foods before you go to the processed foods. Now, having said that, the extra calories does give you a little bit more room for an indulgence or to beyond what you had before, right. So if that helps you stick with your diet, and you plan it in, please do that, like that is the point of all of this. And now you have more calories to play with. So for sure, but a common pitfall is going straight for those indulgences instead of just scaling up the whole foods first. Okay, I hope this was helpful. I think that covers everything about maintenance, that I wanted to address within a, you know, hour long app most podcast episode. And this is based on my experience with clients over the years, my education and nutrition, you know, researching for this podcast, and there's there's always more to learn. And one thing that I have learned is that living at maintenance can be deceptively simple. So as with any phase of your nutrition skills, like mindfulness, consistency, adaptability, these are going to be your big mental friends. Many of the clients in my program who get through this, not get through they they thrive and complete the three or six months and achieve their fat loss goal. And they usually lose between, let's say, 20 and 60 pounds of fat, it's pretty common, they then find that they want to continue working together because of the intricacies of this transition from the cut to maintenance and maintaining results. So again, Neil, thank you for bringing this up. Because it it is a common problem that we solve when we talk about nutrition, but I don't talk about it enough on the show. Maintenance is also a great time to assess to assess your future goals, your next phase, this can be very exciting. If you're a planner like me, it's a time to take a breath, let things stabilize, and then say, okay, I do want to build muscle, but I needed to take a break, I didn't want to like overshoot and gain too much weight too quickly. So I took my time I sat here meanings for a month, two months, three months, maybe I it allowed me to deal with some other things in my life that have nothing to do with my fitness. And now I can plan ahead and think very thoughtfully, mindfully, carefully, maybe talk to a coach, maybe reach out for a call or fill up a free call and talk about what is next. And let's map it out. So whether you're there or not, you know that I can help get there if you want to reach out as can our community. If you're not ready to apply for coaching, of course, I always have spots for those free results. Breakthrough calls with me. Think of it like an audit of your nutrition and training, where I help you get clarity on the most important two or three, maybe four, but probably two or three steps that you can take right now to get unstuck and move in the right direction. Like I mentioned before, maybe it's just something you're not tracking. And I can help identify that for you. These aren't sales calls, they're not sales pitches. Feel free to ask others in the Facebook community who've had these calls with me, and they'll tell you all about it. Their conversations to get you clarity, it's just a 30 minute zoom call with another human being just go to wits & weights.com and click free call or click the link in my show notes. Again, it's wits & weights.com and click free call or click the link in my show notes for the three three no for the free 30 minute results breakthrough session. Given that it is cost free and risk free, you have nothing to lose other than maybe speeding up losing fat. Ah, see what I did there. Okay, in our next episode 137 Unlock abundance in fitness and every other aspect of life with Rebecca Whitman. Rebecca shares her philosophy of the Seven Pillars of abundance, challenging us to rethink how we balance our lives with an emphasis on physical abundance. It was a great conversation if you've heard Rebecca before. She goes on a lot of podcasts and talks about these pillars but I really wanted to dial in on the physical abundance piece for you the listener who I know that's really what we care about on this show. From her unique approach to her morning routine. We talked about embracing abundance, building resilience being more consistent, reshaping your identity, all of those things to harness your full potential. So check that out. As always, stay strong. And I'll talk to you next time here on the Wits & Weights podcast. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights if you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up there Wits & Weights, please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then Stay strong

Ep 135: The Truth About Testosterone for Women’s Health with Karen Martel

Did you know that testosterone plays an important role in women's health? Are you curious about how hormones can help you achieve lasting weight loss?
 
In today’s episode, Philip (@witsandweights) welcomes back Karen Martel, a Certified Hormone Specialist and Transformational Nutrition Coach who has helped many women find new vibrancy through hormone awareness and optimization, especially throughout the peri- and post-menopause phases.

The last time Karen was on the show, way back in Episode 31, where listeners can also get her full backstory, Philip and Karen unpacked the complexities of hormones and weight loss during perimenopause. Karen is here today to uncover the truth about testosterone for women. You will learn the role of testosterone in women’s health and vitality, who might benefit from testosterone therapy, common questions related to benefits, safety, and dosage, and where all this is headed into the future.

Episode summary:

Hormone specialist Karen Martell returned to provide an insightful discussion on a topic that has long been shrouded in misconceptions: the role of testosterone in women's health. The episode debunked the common belief that testosterone is exclusively a male hormone, revealing its significant, yet often overlooked, impact on female vitality.

The conversation with Karen was an eye-opener, addressing the underestimated prevalence of testosterone in comparison to estrogen and progesterone. Testosterone, it turns out, is the most abundant hormone in women during their fertile years. This fact alone challenges societal misconceptions and paves the way for a better understanding of women's health needs. Karen elaborated on the benefits of testosterone therapy, emphasizing its role in maintaining libido, muscle mass, and insulin sensitivity, particularly during perimenopause and menopause when hormonal imbalances can significantly affect quality of life.

Furthermore, the podcast delved into the intricacies of hormone replacement therapy (HRT), highlighting the importance of personalized health solutions. Karen shared that individualized approaches to HRT could extend far beyond basic treatment, offering significant health benefits like reducing the risk of heart disease and Alzheimer's. This underscores the need for early testing in women's 20s and early 30s to establish a baseline for testosterone levels, aiding in the detection and management of hormonal changes later in life.

The episode didn't just focus on HRT; it also explored natural methods to enhance testosterone levels. The power of adaptogens such as ashwagandha, tongkat ali, and maca was discussed, with a detailed explanation of their roles in hormonal health and their capacity to harmonize hormone levels. Karen also emphasized the need for comprehensive testing, including blood work and urine metabolite testing, to customize treatment and support hormonal balance effectively.

One particularly compelling aspect of the conversation was the discussion around the broader landscape of hormone replacement therapy for women. Karen pointed out the lack of training among general practitioners in managing menopause and perimenopause, leading to a reliance on antidepressants or birth control as a catch-all solution. She encouraged women to take control of their wellness journey by seeking out specialists trained in hormone therapy and exploring over-the-counter options for hormone replacement.

The episode concluded with the introduction of Karen's upcoming line of over-the-counter hormones, promising to provide women with additional resources to manage their hormonal health. This represents a step towards greater accessibility and empowerment for women seeking to optimize their health and thrive.

Overall, the podcast episode served as a journey towards empowerment, arming listeners with the knowledge necessary to take control of their hormonal health. It provided a comprehensive look at the critical role of testosterone in women's wellness and offered practical advice for those looking to enhance their vitality through both therapy and natural methods. The conversation with Karen Martell was a call to action for women to redefine their approach to health and wellness through a deeper understanding of their hormonal landscape.

Today you’ll learn all about:

2:36 Testosterone’s role in women’s health
7:24 Debunking myths about testosterone in women
9:02 DHEA, adrenal health, stress/cortisol
11:38 Criteria for testosterone supplementation/treatment
17:44 When women should test for testosterone levels
23:01 Role in weight management during menopause
28:47 Integrating testosterone in holistic hormone therapy
34:49 Benefits for aging/vitality
46:07 Side effects and dosing of TRT
47:40 Long-term use and the future of TRT
50:03 One question you wish I had asked
53:26 How to connect with Karen
55:32 Outro

Episode resources:

• Ep 31: Hormones and Weight Loss During Perimenopause with Karen Martel

• The Hormone Solution Podcast

• Website: karenmartel.com/ 

• Instagram: @karenmartelhormones 

• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/karenmartelhormones 

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Transcript

Karen Martel  00:00

The research shows that women that replaced their hormones, as you know, mainly estradiol progesterone, and testosterone have over 30% reduction in all cause mortality.

Philip Pape  00:14

Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host Philip Pape. In this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in Wits & Weights community Welcome to another episode of the Wits & Weights Podcast. Today I am thrilled to welcome back the one the only Karen Martell, a certified hormone specialist and transformational nutrition coach who's helped guide so many women to find new vibrancy through hormone awareness and optimization, especially throughout the Peri and post menopause phases. Last time Karen was here way back on Episode 31, where you can also hear her full backstory. We unpacked the complexities of hormones and weight loss during perimenopause. She's here today to uncover the truth about testosterone for women. You'll learn the role of testosterone in women's health and vitality, who might benefit from therapy, common questions about benefits, safety, dosage and where all this is headed. And of course, you must check out Karen's top rated podcast, the hormone solution podcast, where she empowers women to navigate Peri menopause and post menopause with grace and knowledge. So many great topics and guests. Karen, I want to welcome you back to the show. Thanks

Karen Martel  01:43

for having me back. This is great. I was episode three. I didn't realize it was so because what are you at now you're at like 200 Or you want

Philip Pape  01:51

not not quite there. But we're in the 120s Yeah, we're in the 120s. When this one's out, it's probably be in the 130s. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So

Karen Martel  02:00

100 episodes,

Philip Pape  02:02

it hasn't back then I was using the TV tray in my closet. So I've upgraded a little bit since then. You wouldn't know. So it's good to have you back. I know a lot of my listeners love your show and what you talk about and you know, the stuff we do tends to complement a lot of what women are looking for, with the overall holistic approach to their health. So today, we want to talk about testosterone. Hot Topic, very important. I think it's one of those hormones that kind of flies under the radar compared to others like estrogen. But we know it's important. We know women want to know more about it. So let's start with the basics. What's the primary function of testosterone in the woman's body? And then we'll go from there, huh?

Karen Martel  02:42

Yeah, so women don't think of their testosterone, first of all, because we associated being the man's hormone. And it is it's an androgen, so it's falls under the category of the more masculine hormones. But what's interesting is we actually as women produce more testosterone in our fertile years than we do estrogen or progesterone, which are the two main female hormones that every most people have heard of, you know, estrogen and progesterone. And so they think that that's like our primary hormones. But actually, testosterone is our most abundant hormone. And so the ovaries will produce about 40% of our testosterone, and they produce that first, and then that's converted, or what's called aromatize into Astra dial, which is our main female feminine hormone. And so we without the testosterone, we couldn't be women, which I think is really interesting. It's like man makes women woman which, you know, maybe we go back to the whole Adam, Adam, wasn't a rib wasn't a rib that they gave or that he gave, I think it was the testosterone for actually had to give you testosterone so you can become a woman, which I just think that that's interesting. And what's with on the flip side of that, men don't think that they need extra dye all but in actual fact, it is extremely important for men and when men go on like aromatize inhibitors, which stops the conversion of testosterone to estrogen. They can get super sick and actually feel really bad and have bone issues. They can have depression, they can have low libido from not enough Astra dial. So we both need these hormones, but it's just not recognized in women and the mainstream medical system like men will have their testosterone covered by extended medical if they have it here in Canada. It's covered. We have Andrew gel, and it's in the States as Andrew gel and all the guys get it whenever they want it. There's no testosterone made by a pharmaceutical company for women. I've heard of one like last year. I have yet to see it, though. But I heard that there was going to be one coming for women. And so right now we can only compound testosterone replacement.

Philip Pape  05:19

And that's even even in the US. That's the case in in the US.

Karen Martel  05:23

Yeah, yeah. So right now, it's primarily compounded. I have yet to see anybody actually get this pharmacy brand of testosterone. So it's not covered for women. But men have it covered,

Philip Pape  05:35

which men just walk into a clinic like shoot me up, let's get let's get it. Yeah, there's just

Karen Martel  05:39

offering clinics on every street corner these days. And it's all about oh my gosh, don't, God forbid you have erectile dysfunction. And if you have one day without an erection, we're gonna hop you up on testosterone and whatever you need, so that you can have sex. And then these poor women whose testosterone is going down as their over ovarian function goes down to Cicerone goes down, and then their libido goes, but oh, that doesn't matter because we can still have sex even if we don't have a libido. So testosterone is number one really important for libido. It's also extremely important to, of course, maintain muscle tissue and to gain muscle tissue. Without testosterone, it's really difficult for women to put on muscle. So if your testosterone is dropping, and you're not able to keep up with your muscles and build that muscle, especially in perimenopause, and menopause, will actually become more insulin resistant, just from the drop of that muscle tissue, as you talk about loss and muscle tissue is our glucose sink. So without it, women become very insulin resistant. It's part of that puzzle and menopause estradiol also when we lose, it makes us become more insulin resistant. So we have this kind of double whammy happening, where it's, you know, that's one of the main causes of all the weight gain that happens for most menopausal women. Is that drop, and then that insulin resistance coming up? Yeah,

Philip Pape  07:10

I think that's that's a really excellent point, those three things so for people are listening, right? more muscle mass, more insulin sensitivity, easier to lose fat easier to maintain your weight, the opposite is the opposite, right? Easier to gain weight. And so this imbalance that occurs or this lack of testosterone, how much of that is responsible for these inability to gain or maintain muscle mass versus other factors? Like, is it huge? Is it the main factor?

Karen Martel  07:38

I don't know what the percentages per se, but I know that Astra dial is also really important for protein synthesis and building muscle. So there are other factors. Of course, insulin is a big one, too, you know, if you are insulin resistant, it does make it harder to put on muscle. So there's different factors when it comes to that building of muscle. We also know insulin, like growth factor has a lot to do with it, because that triggers growth hormone. And growth hormone is also really important for building muscle. So there's a few different factors, but testosterone is certainly a really big player. And I've seen a lot like countless women who start to replace their testosterone when it was low in menopause or perimenopause. And they're like, oh, my gosh, look at my body now and you see it on them, they suddenly have, like, they got muscle and all the work they're putting in at the gym starts to really pay off. I noticed that even in myself when I started testosterone therapy, I, mine wasn't even super low, but it was on the very low end. And soon as I started using it, it was like, oh, there we go, I can actually start seeing some muscle now when I'm working out and it doesn't seem like it's like, okay, why am I not? You know, why am I

Philip Pape  08:53

all that work? Now, what you talked about sir dial as a post cursor, or whatever you'd call it of sastra? What about the precursor DHEA. Where does that fall into this? Yeah, so

Karen Martel  09:05

we make about 40% of that testosterone inside the ovaries, but we also the other half is coming from the adrenal system. So we can make DHEA which is another androgen, but it's also a pre hormone, a pro hormone, so it helps us to make testosterone and estradiol. So and it's also an adrenal hormone. So it's important for our stress, and it's, you know, we want some of it, we don't want too much, because that tells us that we're too stressed out. If we go too high on it, we can also start getting really masculine features. polycystic ovarian syndrome, we tend to see high DHEA and high testosterone levels, and it's just pouring and that's because women will be missing that enzyme that converts that testosterone into estrogen aisle, so their estradiol tends to be low and then they're pouring that testosterone went out. And that makes them insulin resistant and makes them you know, get oily skin cystic acne hair loss. So too much testosterone is also not a good thing. And when too much DHEA is also too much like not a good thing as we age DHEA also will start to go down. So we have to make sure that we're taking care of the adrenal system because then we can, you know, 40% is made in the ovary. So without the ovarian function, we notice arousal is going to drop but we know then we have to really baby our adrenals in perimenopause and menopause so that our the adrenal system can continue to make that testosterone, but most women are super stressed nowadays. And so we rarely see DHEA in a good number in menopause, unfortunately. Okay,

Philip Pape  10:50

yeah. Because I think it's important to understand these different precursors so that you can get at the root cause, right, you can do the right testing and not overdo it with one thing, when really the other thing needs more love and care, right? Yeah.

Karen Martel  11:02

And there's ways to you know, it's really hard for women to get testosterone prescribe to them. But there's because only 40% is made in the ovaries. There's a lot of things that we can do supplement wise to help boost it unlike estradiol and progesterone, that once we stop ovulating, we just don't produce progesterone, we produce a tiny bit from the spinal cord and from the adrenal system, but it's never enough. So testosterone, you have a bit more of a chance by taking supplements to help boost it even in menopause. So we can talk about what some of those are that I

Philip Pape  11:37

like, Yeah, let's do that. I want to know how women can boost testosterone naturally, we'll start there. Yeah,

Karen Martel  11:42

so one is your favorite ashwagandha. We see that Ashwagandha is really great for the stress system. So it's actually in a lot of testosterone boosting supplements, which I appreciate that I like ashwagandha too. So stress supplementation, so things that are going to support the adrenal system, which is always you want to test that first test your adrenals test your cortisol test the DHEA let's see where it's at. Because some women are super low, some are super high, some just have dysregulation in the cortisol clock. So we really want to see where is it at so that we know what type of adrenal support that you need. Do you need something to help raise that cortisol and DHEA or do you need something to lower it because you're in that high stressed out state? So doing that first I think is super important because we can make so much of our testosterone out of those adrenal hormones. The other one is Tong get Ali which is a really popular one for men. And in the research of course it's only been I don't think there's any female studies yet on target le for women but it does work the same way and it does help to raise testosterone and in the research has been like really just showed such a great increase in testosterone in a very short amount of time for men. But it does work the same for women. Tongue get so t o n g a tea and then separate word a li Tangata Li and you want to try and get Indonesian tongue get anywhere between 204 100 milligrams a day take it in the daytime because it does give you a little bit of a boost of energy as well. The other one is for dosha arrest test and and there's been some good research on that too. For men that shows that it can boost testosterone. So you will find a lot of testosterone boosting supplements that actually have both those ingredients in it. Another one is maca that I just love, love love for both for all hormones really like it really helps to boost DHEA and helps to boost testosterone. It helps with Astra dial and my favorite company is one called feminine essence. And it has it's it's got I think it's four different types of maca that you choose from and one is just for men. Another one is for women in their fertile years. One's for Peri menopause and one's for menopause and they all have a different color in strain of maca that goes more with what's happening in that person's phase of life. So if you're in perimenopause and your testosterone is dropping, estrogen is dropping, you could take that feminine essence maca, and it can really help I've seen people reverse their their perimenopause and menopause and like go back to a regular cycle by just taking that, which is pretty incredible. specimen Yeah. Fascinating. Yeah, yeah, sorry.

Philip Pape  14:34

There's more. More on the element. Boron? Yeah, well, we're

Karen Martel  14:37

on the element at about 10 milligrams, actually. So that's a much higher dose than what you'll usually see in a supplement. And it only works if you're deficient in it, which is interesting. So you can take it, it's not going to harm you to take it necessarily. If you have lots. I haven't heard any adverse side effects. Um, it's a hard one to get tested, of course, I think you'd have to do probably like hair, mineral analysis or something. But boron helps us to lower sex hormone binding globulin. And sex hormone binding globulin is the protein that testosterone binds to, and carries it around your system. But it has to get like, become unattached from that, that protein for your body to use it. So I think of it as a bus sh VG is the bus that our hormones get a ride on. But they have to get off the bus for the cells to use it and for your body to actually get that hormone. So if your sh BG is elevated, which functional range, we don't want to see it for women above 85. And if it is, it means that you could have a lot of testosterone, but it's getting bound up by that protein. So your body is deficient in it in the free levels. So always get free and total testosterone tested, because you could have lots of total. But then you look at your free and it's all bound up by that sh VG and it's actually super low. So you're not you're you're having deficiency symptoms.

Philip Pape  16:09

Yeah, I want to get into testing in a second just on its own. So when women know exactly like how I should, they should get tested. But as we wrap up the supplement section, I think what, what's nice about these kinds of supplements being their herbal they're easy to access is you can do sort of an elimination diet or the reverse of that, right? You can try one at a time. I mean, if you try them all, it might one of those might one or two might work, but you don't know which one it is right. Yeah, do it

Karen Martel  16:35

that way. You recommend a good supplement that has all of it in there except for Okay, okay.

Philip Pape  16:40

Is it? So do you recommend doing that versus just trying like a few and then seeing if one is the big hitter for you? Or is it kind of a crapshoot, when it comes to that,

Karen Martel  16:49

I think you would get success with let's say, just using maca, or just using Tang Gat, those would be my two top favorites for boosting testosterone. But I think you would get more success with raising testosterone if you had them all in there. Because it's, you know, you're hitting all the angles, it's got zinc in it, it's got all the things. And so my favorite as of right now is called sigma. And it's by a company called gorilla minds. I'm not associated with them at all. I've just seen it work really well. And it's got the dojo restless has got Tonga in proper form, like improper levels, and it's got the zinc, it's got the boron in proper levels as well. And some other stuff in there. So it's got

Philip Pape  17:34

mines, yep. Okay. Yeah. Well, that'd be good. Yeah. I mean, again, as a coach with women with these issues, as well, I will be looking at that and suggesting it to people. So that's good. Let's go back to testing, right? Because testing is always a point of confusion, especially in the traditional healthcare system, where it's like, if you could even get them to give you a test, it's bloodwork. And usually that's not adequate, but it might be for testosterone. So let's, let's break it down. Exactly. That's one thing that makes it easy, right? So how should a woman get access, get tested, and then use the results properly.

Karen Martel  18:06

So once again, some really shitty man to woman things here, which is testosterone is the only one that they'll ever test free and total. Women when they won't do estradiol free and total or progesterone free and total. It's only testosterone, which is a little bit frustrating. But you that's a very accurate way to test your testosterone and testosterone. We have a little bit of a peak right before we ovulate, I think to give us that drive to go out and have sex and procreate. But pretty much we don't fluctuate like we do with our other hormones throughout the month. With testosterone, it stays pretty even keel we have that little flux on day 12. Right before we ovulate on a 28 day cycle. But you know, besides that, you can kind of just test whenever in the cycle, you probably don't want to test on that peak day, day. 21 is what I would recommend because that's where we test the estradiol and progesterone in fertile women so might as well do your testosterone then too. And so it is very accurate, but you definitely want to do both free and total in case your sh VG is too high. And then test your DHEA sulfate in blood test your sex hormone binding globulin so we see if it's elevated, because one of the things that's happening right now is that a lot of women are fasting and fasting like hardcore fasting one meal a day two meals a day and they've been doing this for a long time, or they've been eating a really low carb diet or and when they're fasting and not eating that much. They're also really low on protein. So low protein diets, low carb diets, too much fasting we'll all raise sh VG, because it makes sense. If we were back in hunter gatherer days and there wasn't a lot of food around so we're fasting right? Then the body is being told don't get pregnant. There's not a lot of food around So as hBg naturally would go up, because there's a food shortage, so it wants to bind up your testosterone bind up your Astra dye, and so that you can't get pregnant. And so too much of that starts to signal to the system, don't get pregnant, which is really the only reason why we're here. So your body's kind of compensate for this, whether you like it or not, it's aware of whether you want kids or not, or care about being fertile. This is what happens. So we have to be really careful with that. So testing, that's a good idea.

Philip Pape  20:31

So a couple of things, because I actually just put together a new episode about carbs coming out. And one of the interesting things about a higher carb diet was the increase in testosterone to cortisol ratio that they've seen, not, in addition to the increase in IGF one that you talked about, so the fasting and the low carb or the low protein. Are you saying that that, in general, for most women that's not recommended because of this? Or what are you saying there?

Karen Martel  20:54

It's a fine line is what I'm saying. Because we also become more insulin resistance resistant because of the drop in hormones as we age, which means intermittent fasting, can be a really, really important tool to start implementing, because we need help being insulin sensitive. It's that women are taking it too far. They get results. And then they're like, Oh, my God, and then they stop getting results. And they think I better do it harder, longer. Right? Like I bet, I'm eating two meals a day, I'm very one meal a day, oh, I should be doing a 36 hour fast or a five day fast. And you hear this from a lot of like, the big practitioners that are out there on social media saying that, you know, do five day fast once a month, you know, do 136 hour fast every single week. And I'm like, No, most women can't handle that, especially in menopause, it stresses the system out too much. So you have to find that balance, you have to know where your cortisol levels are, you have to know where your insulin that so testing, of course, is super important. And we don't, we don't want to guess what's happening in the body. So some women that are insulin resistant, their cortisol is okay, or let's say it's high, then I would probably say You know what, you need to be intermittent fasting more, but you still want to make sure you're getting in the protein. Because if not, then that sh VG will go up, and it'll bind up those hormones. The other thing that will raise it is thyroid hormones. So if somebody is on thyroid medication, which a lot of women are, they don't realize that that's actually binding up their hormones and sending them into menopause early, which is something that happened to myself and nobody told me. And I was like, why is what's going on my total levels of estradiol and testosterone are great, but yet I'm missing a period. I'm getting hot flashes, low libido. And then I finally heard Peter Atea, on who's huge. He was on Huberman lab podcast, and he was talking about thyroid medication raising sh VG and I'm like, Frick, why isn't anybody talking about this? Like how many women are on thyroid hormones? So many of

Philip Pape  23:01

you? Yeah, is this is why women are so frustrated, right? Because it's I can just imagine, like, a piano of keys. And every single key is like a different hormone. And as soon as you press one, the other one goes up or down. And they're also interrelated. Right? And yeah, even the thing about energy availability, which shameless plug that's what we talked about on your podcast, when when my episode comes out energy availability, is that you you need the energy there to support your hormones, but you don't want so much energy that you're gaining a ton of weight, right? And that's where it's like this balance for women.

Karen Martel  23:35

Like cannot be we got to get away from this one size fits all because even though we know that we're still doing it, majority of women are still going what's the next best diet out there? And trying it? And oh, everybody's doing keto. Well, I'm gonna do keto. And it's like, but is that a good fit for you? Like where's your thyroid hours? Your adrenal system, our your hormones, like you got to look at this full picture and then decide, okay, I'm, you know, inflamed. I've got PCOS, I'm insulin resistant. And yeah, keto could be great. And it could reverse all of those things. But then you want to, you know, start carb cycling and you know, there's there's a lot of nuances to it, and everybody has to find what's going to work for them. So

Philip Pape  24:18

going back to the bloodwork free, and total testosterone DHEA Soulfire. SP, Bg. What else just needs

Karen Martel  24:25

PG. Yep. And then of course, you want to test your estrogen progesterone as well. Because there is some some evidence that shows that women should actually be like if you're going to replace your hormones in perimenopause and menopause. There is some some research that shows it's actually better to replace estrogen and progesterone first for three months, then put in the testosterone. So I always want to see that full picture. The other way that I want people to test is through urine metabolite testing Now, oddly enough, testosterone is actually the least accurate on urine metabolite test dates. So you think, Okay, well, then why are you saying that we should do this, Karen? Well, in a Dutch test, which is dried urine hormone testing, we have testosterone on there, we've got the DHEA sulfate on there. But if you have a genetic snip, or you're missing these enzymes called the UG T enzymes, you won't pee out that testosterone. So it looks like you have none, when you actually have plenty. So I always want women to do bloodwork on the same day or the next day. So that we can compare the two just in case is more common in Asian backgrounds. So if you're, you've got, you know, if you're Asian yourself, or you've got Asian in your family history, then you may not have that enzyme. I don't have it. So I always look like I have low testosterone. But the other piece of the puzzle that we want to see on a urine metabolite test that bloodwork won't show is something called Five alpha reductase enzyme. And so there's a fan gauge on the Dutch test and there's five betta, and there's five alpha, if you are leaning towards a five Alpha pathway. So the on the fan gauge, if your way over to the five alpha, it means you convert your testosterone at a higher rate to what's called Dihydrotestosterone which is the most androgenic out of all the androgens and so that's where we'll see women if they go on to sauce from replacements, then the if that goes up the DHT goes up, they start having the hair loss the greasy skin, the acne and so that's not that's not pleasant when we can get whispers Have you know Korean start growing the cattiness as I call it so your your peed your clitoris can actually start to get longer. And you? Yeah. Which is not fun. And I've heard of women this happening to their voice cracking. And just from being on testosterone replacement, that's if

Philip Pape  27:09

you lean more toward the Alpha side. Yep. And does that mean you shouldn't be taking therapy if that's the case, we just have to modulate it be more careful the dosage.

Karen Martel  27:17

Exactly. And you have to possibly take something that's going to stop that conversion. So it blocks the five alpha reductase pathway. There's herbals that do it. There's also medication, finasteride and dutasteride that will block that conversion. So a lot of women will take the medication so that they can get the benefits of testosterone without having the masculine features. But there's lots of that like Saw Palmetto is really good for it. Pumpkin seed, there's a bunch of different things zinc that can help with that.

27:51

Before my coaching session with Philip, I was really struggling with staying consistent with my nutrition, Phillip really showed me the importance of being consistent day to day, he also helped me see that it's not a bad thing to take a rest day, he really helps me get in that more positive headspace of a rest day being something really good for me. I've been doing this for a month now. And I'm finally starting to see some progress and my numbers. And I'm really excited about that. And I just appreciate so much the help that Philip has given me. He's always willing to answer questions to offer resources that are totally free and very, very helpful. So I just want to say how much I appreciate that. Thanks, Philip.

Philip Pape  28:37

This is all fascinating. Let's continue the story here. Right. So we've talked about testing, we talked about natural supplementation. Now we talked about testosterone therapy in more detail. So we're what are the options women have then you do that.

Karen Martel  28:51

So we have pellets which are becoming very popular. There's a lot of pellet clinics now for both men and women. So pellets are these little tiny seed looking, they look like a seed and they get implanted into your butt. And then they're good. They will release testosterone for three months, sometimes six months. Not my favorite, and I'll explain why. But besides that injection, which is my favorite, we can do cream topical cream on the on the skin. And we can do tro keys and we can do oral so a TRO key is a little like you suck on like you put it down in stick it down in your gums and you just let it dissolve. And it's they they think they're going to tell you that, oh, we're just going to absorb into the saliva glands and go into the system. When actually you've you're going to swallow about half of that and that's a problem. So as soon as you start swallowing testosterone, so whether you're taking it as an oral capsule, or you're putting the tro key in your gum, then it's going to raise sh VG and that's going to then bind up The testosterone and estrogen so and it also can cause inflammation because it has to go through the first hepatic pass of the liver. So we, it's, it's the worst way to take testosterone is oral. So never ever do it orally, pellets. The problem with Palace is once they're inserted, you can't get them out, you have to wait for them to dissolve. And it takes about three months. And I have seen so many women who have done pellets who have a negative reaction. So maybe they go down that DHT pathway. And I see them lose their hair, they gain weight, they get greasy skin, cystic acne, we get super water retentive, and they've got to just sit and wait for it to come out. Which is horrible. And sound like I've talked to him in the game like 20 pounds in three months being on pellet therapy. Like that's how bad it can be. So if you're going to do pellet, I ask that you first do a different method. So you know how your body's going to react. Interesting. Yeah. Most people that are trained in pellet therapy, it's a bit of a cash grab so expensive. It's they're not trained to both female hormones like I have yet to come across a really good pellet. Doctor, I know they're out there. Don't get me wrong. I think they're definitely there's some out there. But there's a lot that are horrible. And they don't know anything about the female hormonal system. And it's all testosterone, testosterone, testosterone. And they, these pellets are in such high doses, that they're really androgen Ising women. And so you'll, you'll do their blood work a month in and it'll be hundreds, like top end of the range is 50. I've seen women in the 400 range being on pellets, and they're getting whiskers, they're your voice is crap. Like not, this is not good. We don't, we're not men, we're not trying to, you know, transition to men. So we have to be very careful. And these doctors, these Pella doctors, a lot of them, they won't give estrogen estradiol, or they maybe we'll give progesterone, but they they're very focused on that. Like, let's get your testosterone sky high. And I just don't agree with that. And so injection seems to be the best. I've worked with hundreds of 1000s of women. Now with testosterone therapy, I've seen I've run the gamut of each and each of these things. I've seen what what it looks like on labs, and injections seems to be the the best way to get your levels up to and to absorb it and take it into the system. For some reason cream. It does, it doesn't work as well. It still works. But I find you have to use a higher dose of cream to get the same levels that you would by using injection. So injection you do like a once or twice a week shot. And it really does seem to work well for raising a woman's testosterone. And if it's too much, then you can lower it like the next week if you want to, which is great. So if you're getting some negative symptoms, no problem. Let's lower it same with cream, we can reduce that dosage is great. Cream is awesome, too. It can be really helpful especially for sex. I always recommend to women that are having some sexual dysfunction and dry vagina. When women start to go through menopause and perimenopause, they can have really subpar orgasms when they used to have these great orgasms and then suddenly they're like, What the frick was that? Like? And so to start from rubbed actually on your labia includes Varas prior to sex can actually really help a woman to have a proper orgasm. And it's key to transfer that to your your your male partner. That's interesting. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Philip Pape  33:51

Okay, so stay away from pellets most likely, unless you test them out first. The turkeys is oral don't That's the worst way. topical cream could work. But you need more of it. And then there's libido aspect. And then the injections are the best. And these are tiny needles put in your muscle tissue, right?

Karen Martel  34:08

Yeah, yeah, you can do sub q, or you can do muscle. I personally do sub q because I don't know it's a bit bigger of a needle to go inter muscular. But most of you can handle it. I'm a bit of a chicken.

Philip Pape  34:23

Now, you know, I imagine people select these other options simply because they don't want to get to inject themselves. So we just had to try to assuage their fears that this is super, I imagine, right? Like yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so great. Now, we talked about treatment, going back to the symptoms and the testing, is the testing the exclusive way you're determining that you need it, or is there a symptom aspect to it? I know for men, it's definitely a combination of the two usually.

Karen Martel  34:49

Yeah, so what's interesting is some women come into this world being more androgenic and some are more estrogenic and this has to do with our DNA genetics, right, so when you get a genetic profile, you can actually see if you are more androgenic or estrogenic. And that means that your body will depend on that hormone more than the other than the average woman. So, I always use me and my sister as an example, I was born into this world very estrogenic. So I had a history of endometriosis. I've got ovarian cysts, I'm very curvaceous, I've got breasts, I've got hips, I gotta, but I'm always prone to weight gain. And then you look at my sister, and she's like this little tiny being pool that can eat as much as she wants and never gain a single pound. She's super wiry, she maintains muscle, she's got a great libido, and she just will never gain weight. Like it's crazy. And so when her testosterone drops, she really feels that when I lose my testosterone, I don't notice it that much. Okay, it's like, okay, yeah, you know, and so when I put it back in, like, I noticed difference in the muscle and little bit with the libido. And, you know, it's like, yeah, I can feel it a little bit. But for her, she takes us around, and it's like, oh, like, she just, you know, it's amazing, because she's more androgenic. So your levels could look like they're in range. But if that's low for you, and you're getting symptoms of low testosterone, and so somebody would maybe be gaining weight. Fatigue is a big one, foggy brain, testosterone is really important for our heart, our breasts, our bones. And so if you start to see these problems coming, and your testosterone is not, you know, in a good, it's not in that upper third quartile on the range, that may not be then not seeing that, that you probably don't have enough for you. And so you want to maybe start supplementing with a little bit of testosterone. So we want to always test but we also want to go by how somebody's feeling. And so if there's, if those symptoms are arising, and that person's not being able to put on muscle tissue, they've noticed a big drop in their libido. And, you know, they're really foggy brain, and they're super tired. And it gives a woman, I always say this, it gives you your, your, your balls, your lady balls. And when I say that, I mean, it gives you your drive. And that like I'm gonna go out there and get stuff done. And I'm gonna, you know, so for business women, and for women that are like in that kind of, go, go go. Lifestyle, it can be really important for you to have that testosterone at a good level. And even just stay at home moms. I mean, we all know how stressful that is, and how tired I think that's a harder job than being a high up businesswoman.

Philip Pape  37:46

No comment, I mean, all women in the world that are working hard at something or you know, to be valued, they're all working.

Karen Martel  37:51

Yeah. So so women can really notice it with their, with that fatigue, and just not feeling like they want to get stuff done in their life. And they just like, have that low self esteem and that there's just no get up and go. So that can be testosterone. Yeah,

Philip Pape  38:09

no, I wanted to ask, because there's there big differences between men and women and how they, how they feel these differences. Like for men, it's like, do you feel more like a woman than your testosterone is low? It's kind of like simplified like that. Are you crying? Or are you sad, or all these other things, but what you describe is a little more unique set of symptoms for women, given women have like a fraction of testosterone men and you're already not androgenic to begin with. So it's not like you'd necessarily notice that difference, right? Yeah. So combining the testing with the symptoms is a great strategy. Of course. Yeah.

Karen Martel  38:39

What about? Yeah, they do use it. Like some women will report like, absolutely incredible results. Like they're just like, they love their testosterone, because they're like, oh, my gosh, I feel like I'm alive. Again, I can get out there, I can exercise, I have energy, I feel amazing. And it also for women with breast a history of breast cancer, it won't convert into estrogen and the breast tissue. So you can actually use testosterone therapy safely. If you have a history of breast cancer, you will of course, want to talk to your oncologist about that.

Philip Pape  39:12

And how young, not how young is too young. But at what age should a woman get tested? Even if they don't have symptoms? What's a good like baseline age?

Karen Martel  39:21

In your 20s or 30s? Early 30s? Yeah, because we start to see testosterone going down typically in mid 30s. In women, sometimes in your 40s. It'll start but that's when we start to lose most of our hormones were returned, we tend to go into Peri menopause, which is the beginning of the loss of these hormones and ovarian function between the ages of 35 and 40. So we want to get a baseline when you're feeling good is is a great idea. So if you're in your 20s, early 30s And you don't have any symptoms of low testosterone, yeah, go get it tested now so that when you start aging and going into perimenopause and you start losing that libido and muscle tissue, you can then testing Compare and be like, oh, so it was 40 when I was in my 20s. But yet, look at it. Now it's at 14. And so clearly, I need to boost it and get it up to 40. So I can feel like I did when I was in my 20s

Philip Pape  40:12

is that it's relative to you? What? So let me ask you this question, when would a traditional doctor or GP recommend that you get this tested? Never. There you go. You got to own your health people got to take control of this stuff. Yeah. So true. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I know, that's what you're all about. And anybody listening knows that. But still, we got to do that. Yeah. I'll

Karen Martel  40:33

just tell you, Oh, yeah, you're in range. You know, the range for women is if they even get tested, if they even even get a test. It's like, no, no, you're

Philip Pape  40:41

30 you're too young. That's what they'll say.

Karen Martel  40:43

It's ridiculous. Like, you're free testosterone. If you're between like, point five and five, you're good. What. And then they like total testosterone. If you're between like 10 and 15. It's like, oh, like, we want to see you in that upper range, mid range and above, with total testosterone and free testosterone at around three or four. So keep that in mind when you go to get tested. Because your doctor is going to be like, you're great. You're in range, even though you're like point one away from being flagged as too low. They'll tell you, you're fine.

Philip Pape  41:16

Right. And there's so much of that in life with like the minimums, you know, it's like, we're not trying to just survive and get by here people, right?

Karen Martel  41:22

Yes, we're optimizing for? Yes. So yes, and I'm gonna just say to something that I, I really, really try to get across to women, is, once you lose ovarian function, which typically you'll start to really drop in progesterone first, you can start slowly dropping into dosterone, and then in your mid 40s, to 50, then we drop in estrogen dial. There's no amount of dieting, exercising, fasting, that will bring back ovarian function. So as even though testosterone is one of the one of them that we still will be producing a lot of the time out of our adrenal system, most women's adrenal systems are shot as we discussed. So you really want to like if the natural stuff doesn't work? Yeah, please keep in mind that there's no way to bring back ovarian function, you can come back to supplement your way out of not obviously, like out of the low of your ovulation and the low eggs like you can't bring back a cow, you can't bring back ovulation is going to end, we used to die at 45. That was the average age for women. So as we started going into menopause, we typically die. Now we're living longer than ever. And so without these vital hormones, you can only get so far with your health. Because you're missing all of these hormones that are crucial for so much more than just sex and procreation. We need these hormones for like I said, testosterone is super important for bones. And you know, if you have a hip fracture, you have a 50% chance of dying within the year. Like that's crazy. Osteoporosis, like you will get osteoporosis if you don't replace your hormones, we need them. And so the alternative alternatives is of course, medication, a lot of women will get depressed anxiety ridden from losing these vital hormones. And so I just want everybody to keep that in mind. The research shows that women that replace their hormones, as you know, mainly estradiol, progesterone, and testosterone, have a third over 30% reduction in all cause mortality. We know that heart disease can can be reduced by like 49%, which is the number one killer of women. It reduces cardiac mortality by 49%. That's crazy. So in Alzheimer's, we just a great study came out a couple years ago on like, I think it was like 400,000 women that show women that replaced estradiol for six years or longer had, you know, 75 to 80% reduction in developing Alzheimer's. So in testosterone is really important for the brain as well. So we just want to keep that in mind that it's not just about libido and there's just so much of that. The biohacking that we can do to bring back those levels and so just keep that in mind. Yeah,

Philip Pape  44:28

it's a it's like a battery that's capacity keeps dropping and dropping and dropping, you can only charge it's even if you do everything perfectly, it only charges 50% Then you can only charge it to 25% You need this extra battery I guess from the TRT and the replacement therapy

Karen Martel  44:43

to like yeah, for sure. men lose their testosterone like women, but you know, like we drop in hormones far more than you guys do. But there is menopause and that is the loss of DHEA you can lose your progesterone your estrogen or testosterone in Those are vitally important especially of course to sauce throne for men. And so you really want to watch that if you're not waking up with an erection in the morning if you're having poor orgasms if you're you know, have erectile dysfunction, just depression for men, high cholesterol, high insulin, fasting insulin and blood glucose. These are all signs that you could possibly use a little bit of a testosterone boost as well.

Philip Pape  45:25

For sure. I mean, in for men, it's like if you're training well for eating well get your blood tested, you've got the things covered, you still may need TRT and it's good to have that baseline no matter whatever age you are. Same thing with women 30 years old is great. Get it then every five years or so see what happens. Yes. And treat it and once you start treatment, you have to be on it for life. But that makes sense because it's not coming back. Yeah.

Karen Martel  45:47

And you know, your men think Oh, but if I start using it, then that's it. I'll never have to start trying again. But actually, it shows that in about a month after stopping TRT, your levels will come back to where they were they were Yeah. Which

Philip Pape  46:01

were probably inadequate. That's why you took TRT if there's no harm Yeah, yeah, exactly. Okay, what about, we talked about the androgenic symptoms, are there any other side effects symptoms women should be aware of that would be indicated by too high of a dosage or potentially misalignment with their therapy.

Karen Martel  46:20

Weight Gain is insulin can go up blood sugar can go up. That's like the common PCOS polycystic ovarian syndrome, which is the leading cause of infertility in women right now. That is too high of those androgens as we discussed, and so you could lose your period, you have blood sugar problems, not ovulating. And then with all the other ones on top of that, like the hair loss is a huge one, especially if you've got too much DHEA will cause a lot of hair loss and acne. Same with the testosterone loss. So, I mean, too much of the too much testosterone too much DHEA will cause the hair loss and cause the acne. You can get dark hair on your arms. Dark hair where you know, just in places you don't want it so more hair growth on the body but less hair on the head, which sucks. I think that's it. Yeah, that's a scary. Yeah, we'll we'll get swollen. Yeah. Which is very uncomfortable. So I have heard that from a few women when they're on too much testosterone. Very uncomfortable. They're everything kind of in gorgeous down below.

Philip Pape  47:31

So that the message is get tested and modify your dosing as appropriate. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay. What, um, what's in the future for all of this? Like, is there are there any big changes coming in in terms of either the the approaches or the therapy itself?

Karen Martel  47:47

Not that I've heard of, unfortunately, it's still there isn't a lot for what to research for women. And to actually, it was just at a conference over the weekend, and a woman that would did one of the talks said that it wasn't till 1993 that women were even allowed to be in scientific research studies. Because we could get pregnant. And so the we're all we've only just been in studies for hormone. Like, it's crazy. For a lot of things, a lot of things. For everything. Yeah, true. Yeah. Not just crazy. Hormones. Yeah. Yeah.

Philip Pape  48:25

How do we know about myself? So it's changing,

Karen Martel  48:29

but very slowly. Yeah. And so it's just about educating women about the importance of their hormones, and that testosterone is one that you really want to watch, because it can really help with, you know, just overall vitality and beating well. It'll

Philip Pape  48:45

be ironic or maybe appropriate, if one day insurance companies realize, hey, if we had gotten on this sooner with hormone therapy, we wouldn't have such high costs of all the effects of you know, this added weight gain and stress on the system and poor health that are related hormones, but you know, they don't think long term

Karen Martel  49:01

make money. It doesn't make money. So yes, right. Yeah, that's right. Keep us sick. Yeah, it's unfortunate. Yeah, it's good to work with a good hormone practitioners, you know, not somebody that's in it just to you know, it's like the these pellet clinics or like the wars for just kind of how many people can we get through here? It's not, it's there's no holistic approach. You know, you want to work with somebody that's going to find what's going to work for you and be able to, you know, if you start getting these masculine symptoms that they know what to do, and that they're not forgetting about these other very crucial hormones, because they all work synergistically together. And so we want to look at everything.

Philip Pape  49:39

And Karen is and I know she wasn't trying to plug herself a carrot is one of these wonderful people in the world that do that. And I've

Karen Martel  49:46

I'm just trying to find me you just find somebody

Philip Pape  49:50

true and especially depends on where you live like in the US versus Canada, you might have different access to different things because I've heard some people here do get coverage for certain things that you might not in Canada and vice versus So yep, educate. Exactly. All right. So is there any other question you wish I had asked here, related to testosterone or anything else,

Karen Martel  50:08

I guess maybe how what I have to offer which we I do work with a team of doctors who run the ER, focuses on testosterone. And so we, we can prescribe in every state, which is really cool. We can prescribe in Alberta and British Columbia, and soon to be Ontario and Canada. Because and I want to say that not to plug myself but because testosterone is extremely challenging to get for women met normal medical doctor, your medical doctor doesn't know how to prescribe it for women. They're just like, oh, I have no clue what to do here. Like they're not trained in menopause. They're not trained in perimenopause. I've heard they get like, let like less than 7% of doctors are trained in menopause in med school. So you're gonna have a very hard time finding, finding a mainstream medical doctor who will properly prescribe you hormone replacement therapy. So I

Philip Pape  51:09

just I just have to back that statement up. I've never heard and this is anecdotally from so many clients and women in my life who have GPS, male or female GPS, but even males who just, they're 60 years old, and they've been working with how many patients all these decades. And it's like they they're clueless. It's crazy. It's there's no continued education, there's just nothing. So we have people

Karen Martel  51:34

to become educated in bioidentical hormone therapy, they actually have to pay for the course or courses. There's a lot of incentivized Yeah, no, it's not taught in med school. They they're all going by old studies that were falsely represented. And like, there's so much horrible things that are going on the medical system for women's health. And so what they will give you what they will give you is a depressant

Philip Pape  51:59

or the birth of general, when you're 14, they'll give you that. Okay, yep. Yeah, which causes

Karen Martel  52:03

way more risk for breast cancer. And anyway, like, it's, it's terrible. That's a whole nother episode.

Philip Pape  52:09

I talked about that last night, actually.

Karen Martel  52:12

You can go back and listen to that. But yeah, it's very challenging. And women need to realize that their medical doctor sure go give it a shot, because a lot of it's covered problems. So try. So it was good to try to see if they'll work with you. But if they don't, then let it go. And don't get angry at the medical system. And I had somebody recently message me and say, I'm so mad that I have to pay for this. And it's like, well, it but you have to realize that doctors aren't trained in this. So they're not the people that we should be going to for it. Unless they've said that this is their specialty, which our doctors are they specialize in hormone replacement therapy, they've properly been properly trained. I've been properly trained by nurse practitioners improperly trained, you know, so you want to find somebody that has been specifically trained in bioidentical hormone therapy. And it's likely not your family doctor.

Philip Pape  53:12

And like you said, Everything related to wellness versus sickness, everything related to wellness, you probably have to take into your own hands, whether it's your nutrition, your exercise, your hormones, you see, it's all starting to connect. Right. Cool. So then where can listeners learn about you? Where do you want them to reach out to you?

Karen Martel  53:31

Yeah, so we've got you know, we've we've made sure that we've been able to help any woman that wants to get the help. So we have different tiers, we've got, you know, high ends, four month packages, where you get that one on one, help you get your prescriptions, you get your hormones, etc. And then we also have group coaching, the group coaching program has been going for about six years, we've got almost 200 Women in it. And you can get a lot of help through that we have weekly group coaching calls, where we'll look at your labs and give you recommendations to take to your doctor or to your prescriber and say, Hey, this is what you know, they've recommended I need some estrogen, I need to assess your own and then we've also got, you know, nurse practitioners that you can book with and take the recommendations to and they'll prescribe it and then I'll also I'm coming up with my own line of over the counter hormones so that women can get them even even if they don't have a lot of money. Now you can't. You can't buy testosterone counter, right? You can estradiol and progesterone, which are very key for replacing when you're in perimenopause and menopause to mitigate those symptoms and to have optimal health. So I've created my own line so that women can just get it without the prescription. If they feel they need it. Is cosmetic cream. It's not Yeah, yes. Is

Philip Pape  54:52

that your website? katimorton.com. It's, it's coming. I

Karen Martel  54:55

don't know when this is being aired, but it'll be here by the end of the year.

Philip Pape  54:58

Okay, so this is A whole brand new place to find all this. Okay. All right, yeah, even even with coaching everything else, we're not using your website. There's another. No

Karen Martel  55:07

right now it's gonna just be on my website. character.com. Yeah. And then social media. I'm Karen Martell hormones and then the podcast is the hormone solution.

Philip Pape  55:15

Yeah. Right. And that was you renamed that few months back, right? Yeah.

Karen Martel  55:21

Their site of weight loss. And now it's a hormone solution podcast because it was just so much to do with hormones.

Philip Pape  55:27

Well, this episode comes out in early January. So if you have any updates, we can connect and put it in there, folks. Cool. This has been a pleasure. I'm glad we got to go really deep into this one area of testosterone. So important, not talked about enough. And it's been awesome to have you on so thank you.

Karen Martel  55:42

Thanks for having me on.

Philip Pape  55:45

Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights. Please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong.

Ep 134: A Simple Tweak to Increase Your Metabolism, Hormones, Fat Loss, Workouts, and Sleep

Are you struggling to achieve your health and fitness goals despite following your diet and exercise routine? Do you feel like something is holding you back?
 
Happy New Year! In this first episode of 2024, Philip  (@witsandweights) talks about stress, its impact on health and fitness goals, and how to reduce or cope with it effectively. He gives a lot of attention to nutrition, training, and even sleep, and he talks about how sometimes stress can be the hidden barrier to unlocking a higher metabolism, more effortless fat loss, increased energy, and better health. Philip dives into practical, evidence-based strategies to identify and mitigate stress in the context of both physical and mental health.

Philip also created a free Stress Solution Guide to accompany this episode that you can download at witsandweights.com/free or click here for direct access.

Episode summary:

Stress is a universal challenge that often goes unrecognized, particularly when we pursue health and fitness goals. In a recent podcast episode, we take a deep dive into the covert world of stress, unraveling its subtle yet profound impact on our well-being. The episode isn't merely a discussion about stress but offers a treasure trove of actionable advice and strategies for resilience and management.

Listeners are introduced to the concept of stress as a hidden barrier to fitness success, learning about its capacity to derail metabolism, disrupt hormonal balance, and lead to counterproductive behaviors like unhealthy snacking. The episode acknowledges the different ways individuals experience stress, emphasizing the importance of understanding personal stress triggers and supportive strategies within relationships.

The episode delves into the physiological and psychological effects of stress. Listeners gain an understanding of how chronic stress can impact sleep patterns, dietary choices, and even gut health, which in turn affects gym performance and body composition. This knowledge serves as a powerful tool for listeners to begin recognizing and addressing their stress responses.

The podcast doesn't stop at identification; it provides a range of techniques for stress reduction. From engaging in creative pursuits and cultivating social connections to spending time in nature and organizing one's environment, the advice is practical and varied. Listeners are encouraged to pick one simple action to reduce stress, ensuring the approach is accessible and not overwhelming.

Nutrition, a key aspect of stress management, is also addressed. The episode highlights the role of maintaining adequate caloric intake and balancing macronutrients, with carbohydrates playing a significant part in managing stress levels. Real-life examples from the community underscore the personalized nature of stress management, showcasing unique methods like photography and heavy lifting as stress-relievers.

The episode rounds out with a discussion of advanced stress management techniques like yoga, cleaning, and Transcendental Meditation. These methods, while potentially more involved, offer additional tools for those looking to deepen their stress reduction practice. The host also touches upon the potential of supplements like ashwagandha and magnesium to support stress management, though emphasizing lifestyle changes as the primary focus.

The episode closes with a reminder to listeners to select one stress management technique that resonates with them, incorporating it into their routine. The provision of a free stress solution guide further extends the episode's resources, offering listeners a structured approach to tackling stress.

In summary, the podcast episode serves as an essential guide for anyone looking to improve their health and fitness by managing the omnipresent challenge of stress. It acknowledges the complexity of stress, provides a wealth of strategies for combating it, and encourages personalization and simplicity in approach, all with the goal of enabling listeners to achieve their fitness and wellness goals without the hindrance of unmanaged stress.

Today you’ll learn all about:

3:19 Recent 5-star reviews on the podcast
6:31 What is stress?
11:08 Acute vs. chronic stress
12:54 What creates more stress
14:41 The effects of stress
18:55 The physiology of the stress response
21:20 Pick one thing
23:18 Self-therapy
24:54 Social connection
25:39 Spending time in nature or outdoors
26:16 Planning or organizing
27:07 Optimizing nutrition and training
30:27 Ideas on managing stress from the community
38:52 More stress management ideas
43:53 Outro

Episode resources:

• Free Stress Solution Guide

• Mindfulness Special: Relaxing Guided Session to Manage Stress and Anxiety with Allen Friedman

• Shoutout to the Sam Miller Science podcast (inspiration for episode)

🩷 Enjoyed this episode? Share it on social and tag me @witsandweights

🤩 Love the podcast? Leave a 5-star review

💪 Want to map out YOUR exact strategy for workouts and nutrition for the next 6 months?
Schedule a FREE results breakthrough call with Philip

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✉️ Join hundreds of driven individuals and get access to the FREE Wits & Weights email list with insider strategies, bonus content, and conversations with experts in evidence-based fitness and nutrition so you can achieve your ideal health and physique.

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Transcript

Philip Pape  00:00

Maybe you've dialed in your nutrition, training and sleep, but you're still not getting the results you want. It could be that one thing in particular is holding you back and you don't even know it. In today's episode, we are uncovering how a simple tweak can revolutionize your metabolic health hormones, fat loss workouts and sleep to push you past those plateaus. Stick around to learn what it is and what you can do about it. Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in. Wits & Weights community Welcome to another solo episode of the Wits & Weights podcast in our last episode which was last year, Episode 133. Making fitness fun again through adventure with Kelly Howard, we talked about how the spirit of adventure can revitalize your fitness journey. You learn how to overcome common hurdles to staying consistent with your fitness goals, external versus internal motivation and how to embrace a sense of fun and adventure to reignite your passion for fitness. Today for episode 134. The first of 2024 a simple tweak to increase your metabolism hormones, fat loss workouts and sleep Yes, everything we are talking about stress, especially stress has impact on your health and fitness goals, and how to reduce or cope with it effectively. We give lots of attention to nutrition training and even sleep. But sometimes stress is the hidden barrier. It's just lurking there in your life. And it's the hidden barrier to unlocking a higher metabolism, easier fat loss, increased energy and better health. Today we're going to dive into practical evidence based strategies to identify and mitigate stress in the context of both physical and mental health. Now I do want to give a shout out to Sam Miller of the Samel or Science Podcast, who recently did a very detailed multi episode series on stress that inspired this episode. And I also want to give a shout out to many of my clients and members of the Wits & Weights Facebook community who contributed ideas for how to manage stress that we're going to include in this episode, so many creative ideas, including one of my own that I just discovered today that would be helpful that I will be sharing. And those are later on in the episode. Now, as you're listening to the show, don't stress. And by the way, listen to the show at 1x. Don't go faster. I know many of us, myself included, listen to it faster, calm it down, listen to it at 1x. And now you see what I just did there Right? Trying to help you reduce your stress, even as you listen to this podcast. But don't stress because I created a free stress solution guide to go along with this episode. And of course, you can download that at wits & weights.com/free or click the link in my show notes. Again, that's wits & weights.com/free Or just click the link under episode resources in the shownotes. Now before we dive in to this episode about stress, I wanted to share a few recent five star reviews from Apple podcasts. If you want your review featured on the show, it's very simple. Just screenshot it and tag me at Wits & Weights and I will make sure absolutely to give you a shout out in this part of the show. All right. The first review is from emotionally healthy legacy. Elizabeth says helpful resource for someone who wants to lose weight the healthy way and sustain it. This is a great resource for both men and women. The host really seems to know what he's talking about. Very knowledgeable. I'm glad I gave you that impression. Elizabeth I do try. And that is really the goal of this show is sustainability. So and for men and women, so I'm glad you liked it. The next step the next review is by careless down to earth knowledgeable, be new to weightlifting. I found this podcast to be straightforward, practical and super informative. The community is also fantastic, uplifting and positive folks, Philip is very responsive to questions and offers tons of tips for both beginners and more experienced weight lifters. This has become my go to podcast for all things fitness.

Philip Pape  04:31

You don't know what that means to me it really genuinely when I hear something like that I'm I'm still shocked a little bit of impostor syndrome. I'll admit that someone would make this like their main fitness podcast but that is where I'm trying to go with this. And also the fact that our community is uplifting and positive. If you join the Wits & Weights Facebook community that is exactly how it is. We will kick you out if you're if you're a meanie, but if you're helping people out you're positive you get to hang around Like minded folks that are trying to do the same. And then the last review is by Maggie de I think is how you pronounce it. Love the research and science as a guy looking to book Getting scientifically backed workout content is Big Love. The carbs episode might explain a thing or two. Winky face emoji was recommended through a website, but I'll be sticking around. Thank you so much. I always love again to hear someone who discovers a podcast, find it valuable, and wants to stick around. And of course, anybody listening, if you want to leave a review, just go to Apple podcasts. And it's pretty easy to do. Take a screenshot and tag me in definitely share this episode with a friend if you found it valuable. Alright, we're gonna get into today's topic, a simple tweak to increase your metabolism hormones, fat loss workouts, and sleep and we're talking about stress, the simple tweak is stress. Now I know it doesn't sound simple to all of us. Some of us have extremely full, busy, hectic, crazy lives, however you want to describe it. And I realized, as I'm recording this episode, I was walking the dogs, I was taking them for a walk. It's the very last day of the week before Christmas. And I thought this week was going to be less stressful than others. Now, my tolerance for stress is fairly high. Wherever that comes from, I don't know, I've had this sense my whole life that no matter how bad things get, they're gonna get better. And somehow that grounds me, and I'm grateful to have that inherent in me or training me or from my parents or whomever. But I can see the contrast between people and the amount of stress that they perceive. Now we're going to talk about what stress is how it impacts us, and then how to manage it. But I just wanted to connect with you, as a listener personally, that everyone's level of stress is different. Some people have way more stress anxiety than others, either naturally or because of their circumstances. It really helps. Of course, like in my case, my wife, she gets really stressed out by certain things that I don't and vice versa. So for example, you know, if you if I had to just all of a sudden do all the chores around the house right now, that would, that would raise my blood pressure, like I would get stressed about it. My wife loves doing that stuff, which kind of works out right, we she stays at home, and it works out for me. I do the financials and the business and a whole bunch of other things. And we have a shared kind of partnership. But that would stress me out. If her mouse stops clicking on her computer and doing what she wants. She just she she'll freak out, right? And she knows, this is the case, if she's listening to this, she'll come to me and be very frustrated, you know, express her frustration, like why is this happening now? I can't deal with this, can you fix it and it becomes this huge thing. But I understand that about her right. And so I understand I want to be calm and go over there. Alright, sweetie, let me fix it. Let me see what's going on. And I kind of keep her out of it, I fix it, hopefully. And then you know, she's back in the picture. And we're good to go. So everybody's stressed by different things. I realized this week that I had cleared my calendar a little bit, not as much as I wanted, but I cleared it a bit so that I could get caught up on podcasts and some stuff for my business take care of some fun, creative ideas I had. But you know, what always happens with me is as soon as I leave a gap in my schedule, even if I tell myself even if I put in my calendar and set myself a reminder that this is going to be downtime. I'm going to chill out on the couch and watch Netflix, I'm going to go for a walk, I'm going to just veg out do something fun. You know what happens? I fill in that time I just do I get a crazy idea as I'm walking around the house. Oh, I gotta do something about that. Forget the hour of downtime, I've got an hour now why don't I use it up. And so the weekends have been fuller than I expected. And so I know for a fact that this contributes to a higher level of chronic stress in my life than I would have otherwise. Now whether I can handle it cope with it, you know it whether or not it's affecting my health in a big way, that that's hard to tell. That's part of what we're gonna get into today of how can you even tell? And what can you do about it, but I want you to know that we all face stress, okay? And don't assume the person next to you because they have you know, more kids and more obligations or, or they're single and have no obligations that they have more or less stress, just know that it's all relative to you and your personal experience. And that as we age, the stress tends to rise simply because our circumstances get more complicated, right? We have children or we have more financial obligations, we have bigger bills, we're getting closer to retirement and thinking like getting worried that you know, we're not going to have enough money saved. You know, people in our family, you know, pass away they die. Our pets die. Like all these things happen more and more as we get older. And we take on more things and we are maybe wiser but busier right? And all that adds up. So I feel you right? If you're listening to this and you're like, Man, I'm just so overwhelmed. You know I've got I've got my business, my work my kids working 14 hour days. that might be where you're at. And it is where you're at right now. And that's okay. The question is, how much is that contributing to other things, we're just a little tweak here there could unlock a more positive road to better health. And that's what we're going to talk about. So we're going to discuss the interconnected physiology, right how your body responds, the hormones and such, and the psychology. So the mental side of stress, including how it impacts your brain, your immune system, your hormones, your sleep, your diet, your exercise performance, and more. Right, without hopefully stressing you. Alright, the goal of today's episode is to give you actionable advice toward the end, based on all that information gets you nice and educated, to better navigate stressful periods, and transformational and transitional periods. Because oftentimes, the stress comes from change, it comes from things that aren't expected. And it can come tomorrow, you could get in an accident, there can be a medical condition, whatever we know these things happen, and I'm not trying to stress you out mentioning them. But knowing that they happen, how do we build the resilience for that, okay, so let's define the difference between acute and chronic stress. Acute, acute is the here and now it's short lived, and oftentimes can be a positive, adaptive or helpful form of stress. My favorite one of those is the acute stress of exercise of training. When you lift heavy weights for an hour in the gym, you are stressing the heck out of your body, but in an acute way. And we see this physiologically, we see an increase in blood pressure. For example, if you took my blood pressure, right in the middle of a weight training session, it's gonna look like I have terrible health. It's gonna be through the roof, but that's okay. That's actually part of the process. And as soon as you're done with your, your workout session, everything starts to get back to normal, and the acute stress goes away. And we know that the acute stress like that can actually build resilience against chronic stress. So what is chronic stress? Chronic stress is that prolonged, frequent, difficult to control stress, and that's the important phrase here, difficult to control, stress things from things like your work, financial stress issues in your relationship, juggling all the demands of home life, including children, right, the list goes on and on. And they're difficult to control. Because, you know, like the Stoics, say, there are things in your life you can and can't control. And the chronic stress often comes from the things put upon us. Okay, not always right. There are definitely choices we make to be in the environments and situations we're in and around the people we are. But I'm not asking you today for one podcast episode, to just eliminate all those things. We're going to acknowledge them and realize that they exist, and many of them are right at this moment, out of our control. Okay. All right. Now, there are a few things. Key things three, in fact, that I'm gonna mention, that makes some types of stress, even more detrimental. Okay. The first is novelty. If something happens that we have no previous experience with, and we don't know how to handle that creates more stress than a situation we've seen before. Right? There are situations that happen to me that I've experienced before, maybe financial situations, for example, that I would be able to handle, because I've done through, I've done it before. Whereas somebody else, it's their first time, maybe they're 25, and all of a sudden, they get hit with some big bill or something. And it's like, oh, what do I do what I like, I'm just, I don't know what to do. Right? That's going to create a lot more stress for them than the one for me. So again, it's relative to your experience. Number two is unpredictability. And that's when things are unexpected or inconsistent. So there's some sort of some overlap with novelty here, right? But these are stressors that maybe you know, they're going to happen, you just don't know when, like, they're going to come up, and they're just random. And then the third dimension is lack of control, or lack of agency. And this is all those I mentioned this already, the external stressors that we feel powerless to influence are powerless to change. We just, we don't have control there they happen. And now we have a situation that we that we want to do something about or make a choice in the context of what we can't change the stressor. So chronic stress becomes problematic to your physiology. When it's constant, unrelenting, feels impossible to manage or to relieve. Right. And then it's ramped up and exacerbated by inconsistency, unexpectedness, and novelty. So you take all that together, and I'm sure you can identify some things in your life that fit the bill. So now the question is, what does this do to you and I know a lot of this is going to be quote unquote, negative might stress you out, just hearing what stress does do. But awareness is the first step. Right awareness of these things, I hope reduces stress in a way, because then you'll know where you can focus your energy and mitigate these issues. So the first is sleep, stress and sleep are intricately tied. Think we know that right? Cortisol, which we often call the stress hormone, and there are other stress hormones can impair your your ability to sleep. I mean, this is just thinking about your stressful things in your life can cause you to have insomnia, or it can cause you to disrupt your sleep or wake you up in the middle of the night thinking about it, raise your hand, if you'd have this happened. This hasn't happened many times, okay, happens to me a lot. When things are exceptionally stressful, I'm going to wake up in the middle of the night. And all I can do is find a piece of paper to write it all down so I can get back to sleep. So the sleep quality and your recovery and recharging from your sleep as affected by stress. And now you feel wired. But exhausted, right, you get these restless nights night after night. If you're wearing something like an aura ring, it's going to show you very little deep sleep. And yet you might be in bed for eight hours, but just not getting the sleep. And this is I put this in the top. Because I've said before how like just being sleep deprived alone can massively reduce your metabolism can increase your fat storage in the abdomen can increase your hunger, all those things. But oftentimes stress is the cause of the poor sleep. And any amount of sleep hygiene or sleep hacks aren't going to fix the sleep until you fix the stress. So if we can recognize that in ourselves, that sleep may not be the root cause but stress might be that can be helpful. All right. Second is the the effect that stress has on your nutrition on your dietary choices. Because chronic stress like lack of sleep drives cravings for high energy foods, high sugar, high fat comfort foods as well because there's an emotional component to it. And it also depletes nutrients in your body like it can actually reduce your absorption of nutrients to an extent like where your gut kind of malfunctions and your body becomes less efficient with handling, you know, processing B vitamins, zinc, magnesium, those kinds of things. So whatever your intake you have from your nutrients, the effective effectiveness of them goes down. And then between both the cravings and the nutrient depletion, now your quality dietary quality suffers. And that can lead to other impacts on many other things. Okay, then we have got health, all right. Chronic stress can inhibit stomach acid production. And that is probably tied to the absorption issue I just talked about. All right, B 12, iron, even protein, okay, protein absorption, it disrupts the microbiome, right? healthy gut microbiome, and we're just discovering now how important that is to your health overall, as well, it could affect your digestion to stress affects your training and gym performance. Right? This is huge. So when we talk about recovery, we talk about sleep, stress food, well, if the stress is high, it's hard to have get those extra reps in the gym, it's hard to feel energized, you may not be pre processing carbs and protein as efficiently, you're nutrient depleted, the list goes on, right? And then you have this elevated cortisol. Which guess what, ladies and gentlemen, elevated cortisol is catabolic over the long term, meaning it breaks down tissue, it probably has to do with your body trying to marshal resources to get close to homeostasis, because you're in this high stress state. And so it impairs muscle building or it causes muscle tissue breakdown. All right. The last effect of stress I want to talk about is your body composition overall. Okay? The increase in cortisol also induces further insulin resistance. And this contributes toward, you know, fat gain. Of course, as much as we talk about having high enough carbs and lifting helping all of this, the stress is counteracting that, right? Cortisol signals the body to store more fat, especially the harmful visceral fat. So if these aren't all reasons to improve your stress, I don't know what is. So now let's talk about the physiology of the stress response just to get a little bit sciency but not go as deep as like Sam did on his his multi part series. So this is the the fight or flight that you've heard about many times the sympathetic versus parasympathetic. So the sympathetic response right. When the brain perceives a threat, it signals the hypothalamus to activate the adrenal glands. The adrenal glands are what pump out stress hormones, cortisol, and adrenaline. By the way, cool, little side story. Adrenaline and epinephrine are the same thing. And they both mean above the kidney, add renal, EPA nephron, Latin Greek, if you found that interesting, share this podcast, okay.

Philip Pape  19:37

So the adrenal pumps out those hormones cortisol and adrenaline. Cortisol then affects everything, your whole body's physiology, immune health, metabolism, etc. Right? And here's another interesting thing, your brain structure changes with chronic stress. The amygdala enlarges and actually increases the fear and stress response the amygdala. Like the primal part of your brain, that response is a response to the fight or flight. So you're actually now you're effectively training your amygdala to be bigger and stronger, which is not what you want. And then the opposite happens with the hippocampus. The hippocampus is responsible for memories, and regulating your mood, guess what happens to it, it can atrophy. So Holy crap, like, I just learned this going to this research, I hadn't explored this specific phenomenon. But you're effectively strength training parts of your brain with your stress in the wrong direction, when you have too much stress, a bigger amygdala, a smaller hippocampus? I don't know. I think that's pretty cool. I'm fascinated by this stuff. I nerd out on it. But it's also scary in a way, isn't it? It creates this vicious cycle of greater reactivity, like you react more easily. And then you perpetuate the chemical response that's going on. So it's like it's this vicious cycle. And you probably know what I'm talking about. Soon as you get wired and stressful, and you're chronically stressed it, it just goes on and on and on. Even if you have a day or two of like, being able to relax and do stuff yourself. It's like, it's a temporary Band Aid, and everything's just ramps right back up. So what do we do about it? All right, I'm gonna throw a lot of you today, I realize that, but I like to be complete, and give you a lot of options. And so before I even go through my whole list here, my main action for you today, and I'm going to reiterate this later in the podcast, my main action that I asked you to do is pick one thing, pick one thing that's easy, and simple. Okay? If I'm telling you that having more sex will reduce your stress, and you don't have a sexual partner, that's probably not the one you're gonna go after. And maybe you're laughing right now. And that's the point I wanted to give you a little chuckle. But if there's something on this list, that is far from what you can do right now, don't worry about it. Don't even think about it. Pick one thing, that's easy, that you can give yourself a reminder to do tomorrow. Okay, this is the new year. I don't think I mentioned that this is the first full episode of the new year. So Happy New Year. And I'm thinking that we're all stressful this time of year. We're past the kind of high emotional high of the holidays. And now we're looking at the long path of our year, pick something that's easy to do. Hey, this is Philip. And I hope you're enjoying this episode of Wits & Weights, I started Wits, & Weights to help people who want to build muscle lose fat and actually look like they lift. I've noticed that when people improve their strength and physique, they not only look and feel better, they transform other areas of their life, their health, their mental resilience and their confidence in everything they do. And since you're listening to this podcast, I assume you want the same things the same success, whether you recently started lifting, or you've been at this for a while and want to optimize and reach a new level of success. Either way, my one on one coaching focused on engineering your physique and body composition is for you. If you want expert guidance and want to get results faster, easier, and with fewer frustrations along the way to actually look like you Lyft go to wits & weights.com, and click on coaching, or use the link in my show notes to apply today. I'll ask you a few short questions to decide if we're a good fit. And if we are, we'll get you started this week. Now back to the show. Okay, so what are the options? First, we have lifestyle changes, and techniques. So these are all you can call them stress hacks. But these are all the very important things that I would recommend to a client, and usually would be more personalized to their life. But I want you to think about your life in which one of these makes sense. So first, we have anything that is creative or expressive. Okay, the this is like a form of self therapy. If you like art, if you'd like to paint or draw, or do Legos, or some sort of craft, if you'd like to play music, like I play saxophone, I don't do it as much as I would like. So that could be on my list. And my kids both play clarinet and flute, so I can play with them. And they play piano as well. Right? singing music, listening to me, not really the listening and this is more about expressing yourself. Okay, writing, creative writing. You like to write stories, or poems. This is not to be confused with like work writing, writing emails and social posts that you just don't like to do this is a more enjoyable form of writing. Maybe you want to use a quill maybe you want to do calligraphy, right? Maybe you want to write thank you notes to people. Dancing is another one. And dancing can be everything from just jumping around with your your wife or husband at home to meet not jumping around. But I mean dancing to music or dancing with your kids or just dancing on your own right, or going out and dancing somewhere. I'm sure you can come up with other ideas but different ways to express yourself. And by the way, after I give you this list, I'm going to share specific examples from the community and for my clients that might spark some inspiration. The next one is social connection not just once in a blue moon, but regular so also a connection. And this does include sex and intimacy with your spouse or partner, okay? In a real meaningful way, right? Not, we're not talking about random sex and one night stands, we're talking about meaningful connections here.

Philip Pape  25:14

But also connections with your friends, like if you have one or two or three close friends that you can meet with on a regular basis, and you find that a refreshing thing to do, whether it's go out for a drink, hang out their house, go do an activity together. This could also be groups and communities you connect with online, or through texting, or through WhatsApp or Telegram, there's so many ways, right? Find a group, there are many groups support groups out there if you need them. Alright, the third thing, spending time in nature, or outdoors, this can be going for a walk in the woods, killing two birds with one stone getting your gear steps in, so to speak, but doing it because it's outside, you get your Vitamin D sunshine, the birds chirping, there's something visceral about our connection with as humans with nature. And some of you in the community have posted how you live, you know, at the ocean, your rivers, near the woods, even in the city, there's so many beautiful places, and interesting places you can spend time in nature or outdoors. The next one is an interesting one, a lot of people resonate with this, especially in my community planning and organizing. So planning your day, your meals, your schedule, your vacation coming up your week, you know, it requires a little bit of intense activity and concentration, maybe gets you into a flow state. But for that half hour of work, so to speak, that probably feels pretty productive, and feels good to you not really stressful, so to speak, the reward is then your whole, you know, future for that thing is planned out. And now you don't have to make decisions in the future. And that takes away fatigue. And stress organizing is the same way some people really want to organize, whether it's their house, you know, cleaning, doing the chores, mowing the lawn, organizing your thoughts on a whiteboard, organizing things in a post it note, whatever. I mean, organizing means a lot of things. The next thing is all the stuff related to what we talked about on the show. So training, optimizing your nutrition, optimizing your sleep, so I think sleep and stress can kind of play off each other. So if if you feel that your sleep can easily be improved, not easily, but that improving your sleep can reduce your stress. And that's the main thing causing the stress. Because you just feel like you lack energy and everything else just builds up. And all you need is an extra hour of sleep, or a little bit better quality sleep, of course, I'm going to encourage you to try to do that, find a way to do that, and then see if it doesn't also reduce your stress. So it can go both ways. And then of course training and nutrition. I guess I'll just be explicit about that. If you're doing too much exercise, that can be stressful. But also if you're sedentary and you're not training at all, adding in resistance training in particular, but also walking are absolutely going to contribute positively to reducing stress, the resistance training does in many ways. One way is the acute stressor of the activity itself, which builds this physiological and as you realize brain based physical resilience to stress that carries you into the rest of your day and the rest of the week. But walking and endorphins from even other forms of cardio have been shown to reduce stress. Nutrition is just eating enough eating enough food. Like if you're dieting, that's going to increase stress just by default, by definition. So one way to increase to reduce stress, if you're in a calorie reduction reduced state is to not be in that state is to eat at least at maintenance or above. We went through this at the end of the year in our body recomp challenge where a lot of people, they said, we said together, we're not going to diet, we're not going to try to be in a surplus or be in a deficit, we're just going to stay where we are. But we're going to build good habits and eat enough food through the holidays and enjoy ourselves. And so many people did that instead. Wow. That was revelatory. That was that was life changing in a way because I realized I can eat more without gaining weight. And the eating more. reduce my stress helped me sleep better give me more energy helped me perform better in the gym. You see how this is all connected. It's all connected. So optimizing your nutrition is eating enough. It's also eating enough of the right macronutrients and micronutrients to support your health. So that's, you know, sufficient protein and carbs, carbs, especially a lot of you listening. If you're low carb or keto and you have a lot of stress, bumping up your carbs. It can help possibly I've seen it time and again happen. I talked about this on the more carbs more muscle episode because of the hormonal response to additional carbs. So they're all worth the all all things that need to be looked at. Okay, so that to a pretty good list of the big ones of how to reduce stress. Actually, I have more I have more, I'm categorizing these in different ways. So I'm going to talk about supplements. And I'm going to talk about more advanced stress management skills specifically, I'll get to that in a second. One thing mentioned is part of exercise could be really any movement that relaxes you. So that could include of course, a yoga, it could include stretching, like all of that in there. Okay. Now from our Wits, & Weights community and from our clients. Many of my clients contributed some ideas, as well as those in the Facebook community, which is totally free, you can join in the link in the show notes as always. And I'm going to shout them out by name, I think they wouldn't mind because they posted right in the community. I'll just give their first name. Just see this. Her idea she had two that I wanted to share photography. That's a form of art of creative expression. She also likes walks on the beach. Again, getting out in nature and the beach in particular, there's supposedly science not supposedly, but there's science that shows like the ionized water coming off of the ocean coming off of waterfalls has some positive interaction with our physiology. I don't know the details. I'm sorry, but look it up. It's pretty cool stuff that we are really attracted to walking near bodies of water being your body's water for our stress. Okay, Eric said he likes to relax, okay, I love that just saying relax, because relax, I didn't even mention it could just be veg and out. Just chillin, read a book, right? Watching TV, playing a video game. I can play a violent video game, and it will relax me, which sounds crazy, right? But it's something that I really look forward to. I enjoy it. I'm good at it. It doesn't take a lot of thought. And as a result, I get relaxed regardless of whether the content seems quote unquote, stressful because I know it's fake. And that's just me. Okay. Anyway, relax. And then listen to podcasts. And listen to podcast is great way to reduce stress if it if it helps you relax, for example, or if it's entertaining, but also even if it's helping you with your personal growth. And it solves some sort of problem for you as you're listening. And maybe it maybe inspires you to write down an action that you're going to take and then that gives you confidence and certainty as to your next step. Leanne says reprioritizing tasks. I love this one, this is related to the organization and planning. But this is saying let me look at all the things on my to do list and reprioritize them, which could include eliminating them. But it also is putting the most important and urgent ones at the top right, maybe getting some out of the way right now getting them done. Maybe delegating them. So that could definitely reduce stress. Shannon said I love this quote, lift heavy, heavier and heaviest I had to include in there. I just love the quote the idea of lifting heavy reduces stress, I can attest to that. And pretty much everybody I know who lives heavy states that that's the case, there's absolutely no negatives that I can think of to lifting heavy with good form. You know, so there you go. Chrissy says yoga and cleaning. So yoga, specifically, a lot of people love to do yoga, as a form of movement, and mindfulness. And then cleaning, this goes under the category of I guess organizing maybe being in control, right and being proud and happy about your space around you. Very important. Right? A lot of people get stressed just seeing a bunch of clutter lying around. Brianne said Transcendental Meditation. Now she mentioned a specific book in the group. I didn't write it down for the notes. So go into the Wits, & Weights Facebook community, and you'll see a post that I did about what's your favorite way to reduce stress. And she mentioned it in there. But again, if you can't find it reach out. We'll point it out to you. But that's a very specific skill called transcendental meditation. Josh said organize, prioritize, execute. So I like how we included all of those which go under the planning and organization. And it kind of combines with what Leanne said about reprioritizing tasks. So organize your tasks, prioritize them, and then execute them. And that's actually an important one too, like, just getting stuff done, can reduce stress. And one of my quick quotes was about procrastination. And for many of you, you may be stressed because you're procrastinating. And so if you can use one of those tools to reduce your to do list

Philip Pape  34:28

that can reduce stress. All right, Tony mentioned one that I really liked here, reminding himself of the big picture. Yeah. How often do we get in the weeds? And we get stressed? Because we think there are a million things we have to do. And when you take a step back, you realize you know what, it's not that bad. Like, all these are nice, but there's this one thing that's really superseding all of it. Actually, it's what Carl Carl Berryman would call it Have your big lifts, the metaphorical big lifts in your life? So yeah. Carol said asked for help. Yes, you know, I didn't really have that up in the top while I had social connection. But asking for help specifically, from that group, to reduce your stress, so not just waiting to kind of get together in a, in a normal, relaxed situation. But when you're stressed right now, and you know, somebody can give you that help reach out and be specific and say, Hey, I'm gonna, I'm in a tough spot right now, could you help me with this thing and be specific and ask for help. And then she also said, venting to someone who will listen. So again, that's, that's related to social connection, if you have someone who you tend to help each other out, again, what Carl calls, give a spot, get a spot, right? They're probably one of the easiest people to talk to, and share with what's actually going on and vent. And they'll be accepting of that, right, and be able to take on some not even take the burden to you, it's a burden that you're releasing to the other person, it's probably a privilege that they can on, you know, release the burden from you. And they're not really taking on a burden. By doing that. In fact, they're, they probably feel more fulfilled, at least that's how I feel about it, when I'm helping someone who wants to vent and they're doing it in a genuine way and looking for support. And then the one I have that I just came up with, on my way to recording this podcast was, don't always listen to your podcasts on high speed. Like I said to x, I never listened to that fast. But sometimes I'll listen to them at 1.25 or 1.5, just to speed them up a bit. I think it's okay to do that. Sometimes, like if it's the information is kind of superficial enough that you don't have to hear every word and you're just trying to get the general content in. And maybe maybe I'm making an excuse and rationalizing, but if you do it all the time, I feel like it's going to hype you up to kind of wire you up and get you anxious. I've done that. And then I go to have a conversation. And I feel like it's slow. I'm like, Oh, that's not good. Like it's a time dilation, you know, kind of gravity will phenomenon happening there. So anything that wires you up, that can be slowed down is possibly a way to reduce stress. Okay, so that was a whole bunch of like, things that you can try. There are supplements as well that can aid with stress and cortisol, in particular, such as the adaptogens, or nootropics. Now, the big one that you hear about a lot is ashwagandha. And I will swear by this for a lot of people. But again, I'm not as a nutrition coach, I can't prescribe anything, these are herbal supplements, I'm not recommending them specifically to anyone, I'm just putting them out there. If you want to experiment with yourself ashwagandha, rhodiola, Rosea, Panax. Ginseng, there's others. And for a lot of people, this fills a gap or addresses a deficiency that is related to stress, and then it reduces their stress, I'm not going to go into the mechanism behind them. Because I don't want to spend too much time talking about supplements when there are a lot of natural lifestyle changes that can be made first. But the other thing that comes to mind, we talked about nutrition and micronutrients. I think if you have a deficiency that can be easily checked, usually with bloodwork, like magnesium. Or if you're vegan, and you want to take B complex vitamins, you know, B 12. That alone could could be also causing stress if you don't have enough of a certain mineral, or vitamin. And then we have what I'm going to call stress management skills. And I left these for the end as a separate section because I think they're more advanced. And sometimes tell me if I'm not wrong in your head here. Because this is a one way conversation. Sometimes I get I don't know, if you do I get stressed out thinking about stress management, like thinking about, okay, now I need to do mindfulness, I need to do meditation and breath work. And all the things I'm gonna mention here, that's actually three of the six things I'm gonna mention. But I don't want you to feel stressed that you have to go do some advanced skill, some guided thing, something you have to like learn over days or weeks. And even though these are helpful, and a lot of people swear by them, I'd rather you take the simple, easy step first, and then put this on, you're like, Okay, that's my, that's my next level list. And these are mindfulness. And that means a lot of things. For a lot of people, that simply means being in the moment and being present. Right. Alan Friedman and our group did a mindfulness session recently. It was also alternate nostril breathing, which is a form of breathwork. That's available in the community. And I think I put out an episode on that recently, over the holidays. So check that out if you want to be guided through it in an easy way. But there are also apps like the aura ring has an app. There's breathe and breath and so many apps that have mindfulness meditation and breathwork type activities and they just have a calming voice that walks you through for one minute, five minutes, 10 minutes, some exercise to help you get in the moment and reduce your stress So I'm not against any of those, I just want you to be aware, there are a lot of other things you can do as well. So we have mindfulness, we have meditation, we have breath work, and breath work could be as simple as belly breathing, or the four second, or the box breathing technique, or the alternate nostril breathing. We also have cognitive reappraisal, which is a fancy way of saying, re framing. So this one I actually like a lot. But it's not like something you just do necessarily so much as you it's a principle, and a way of thinking, when you say or write something about yourself, of reframing the situation from a negative to a positive. And I use this with clients all the time, like this is almost every week with every client, there's something that they might say, that can be reframed to put in a positive light. And that can reduce stress, because now it takes you from thinking, your failure, stress to, oh, I just learned something. And now I can make a choice to do something different control, less stress. A few other things are guided imagery. I mean, I could add a whole bunch of things to this list. But the last one I want to add, and this is something you can do right now, if you have someone in the vicinity is hug someone. Can you hug someone right now? And you know, what if you can't hug someone in the vicinity, or it would be weird, because you're in the grocery store, and then strangers, hug yourself, like, hug yourself and just love yourself right now. I'm serious, hug someone or hug yourself. That's what I'm talking about with connection, and how that can reduce stress. And some of us are isolated. We're working from home. We are rarely out and about seeing people. Hopefully we're doing it more now with the world a little bit more opened up again. But some of us are oftentimes in a very isolated environment for long stretches. And if you can connect with someone in any way whatsoever, do it. I hope that this episode has connected with you in some way as well. I help my calm soothing voice has helped. Just kidding. And yeah, I think I think that covers stress, I could just go on and on and on. But this episode, I want to keep it less than an hour. So what I'm going to say here is that stress itself can be a big, overwhelming, stressful topic. So again, if there's one takeaway from this episode is this identify one lifestyle change, or stress management technique that we just mentioned in the show? That sounds fun and easy for you to implement. And then reserve time in your schedule this week. For that activity. You can use the timestamps in the show notes to go back to the last section where I explained all of those right, go back to the timestamps don't stress, it's easy to go find it, use the timestamp and just pick one. Alright, last thing. Just as a reminder, I created a free stress solution guide to go along with this episode. It's basically very detailed outline that mirrors the content of the show pretty exactly. I mean, I basically took my notes and I turned it into a guide for you. And you can download that at wits & weights.com/free, or click the link in my show notes. Again, that's wits & weights.com/free or click the link under the episode resources in the show notes. Okay, in our next episode 135 The truth about testosterone for women's health with Karen Martell, one of our most popular guests, Karen Martell of the hormone solution podcast is back and she is uncovering the truth about testosterone for women. You'll learn the role of testosterone and women's health and vitality who might benefit from testosterone therapy. Common questions related to the benefits, safety and dosage of TRT and where all this is headed into the future. As always, stay strong. Don't stress and I'll talk to you next time here on the Wits & Weights podcast. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights, please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong

Ep 133: Making Fitness Fun Again Through Adventure with Kelly Howard

How can the spirit of adventure revitalize your fitness journey? What concepts help you overcome common hurdles to staying consistent with your fitness goals?

In this episode, Philip  (@witsandweights) talks with Kelly Howard, a Fitness Consistency Expert with a touch of Adventure and the author of FIT: Active & Ageless for Life. Learn how the spirit of adventure can revitalize your fitness journey. You will learn how to overcome common hurdles to staying consistent with your fitness goals. The show explores the concepts of a ‘Fitness North Star,’ ‘Layered Accountability,’ and external vs. internal motivation. You can expect to expand your comfort zone, reignite your passion for fitness, and embrace a sense of fun and adventure.

Kelly has helped thousands of women prioritize their fitness for over 25 years to feel great and have more fun in this second half of life. She invites women to adventure out of their comfort zones by trying new experiences they may have only imagined. Kelly’s Fit is Freedom podcast, coaching, online courses, and retreats change lives daily. She currently calls Houston, Texas, home but can often be found kayaking rivers and traveling trails worldwide.

Episode Summary:

Embarking on a fitness journey can often feel like a daunting task filled with strict routines and challenging workouts. However, when approached with the right mindset and strategies, it can transform into an adventure filled with joy, motivation, and sustainable habits. This podcast episode with fitness expert Kelly Howard offers an insightful exploration into how we can mix adventure with exercise to cultivate a vibrant and steadfast health routine.

Kelly emphasizes the concept of finding your 'Fitness North Star,' a compelling vision that propels you forward and transforms mundane daily habits into a passionate pursuit of well-being. This idea serves as a beacon, guiding you through the highs and lows of your fitness journey, and ensuring that every step taken is one filled with purpose and enjoyment. By identifying what truly motivates you, whether it's the desire to be an active grandparent or the thrill of completing a challenging hike, you can align your fitness goals with deeper personal values, leading to a more fulfilling and enduring lifestyle.

A crucial aspect of sustaining a fitness journey is developing a robust accountability system. Kelly introduces a pyramid-like structure where each layer supports the next, creating an unshakeable foundation for personal growth. The base of this pyramid is personal motivation, followed by expert coaching, and finally, the collective strength of a community. This multi-layered approach addresses the shortcomings of relying solely on friends or partners for accountability and provides a more effective system that combines intrinsic drive with external support.

Kelly and the host discuss the importance of incremental progress rather than grand gestures. This perspective shifts the focus from achieving sporadic, large-scale goals to embracing small, routine steps that collectively lead to significant improvements. They explore how adventure, in its many forms, can be integrated into fitness routines to foster a sense of anticipation and engagement. From trying new activities to setting ambitious events like a 'misogi,' the inclusion of adventure in your fitness regimen can rekindle passion and commitment to your health goals.

Moreover, the conversation sheds light on the significance of rest days, the concept of 'body in motion stays in motion,' and the critical mindset of restarting versus giving up. Emphasizing the foundation built from previous efforts, Kelly likens restarts to muscle memory, suggesting that with an established base, restarts should be more accessible, enabling one to maintain momentum and continue progressing.

One of the most captivating segments of the episode focuses on the importance of fun and play in our fitness journeys. The dialogue reveals how incorporating playfulness can alleviate stress, broaden our perspective, and lead to better life choices. By being intentional with leisure time and creating a list of enjoyable activities, listeners are encouraged to infuse their workouts and daily lives with elements of fun, enhancing their overall well-being.

In conclusion, the episode leaves listeners with an invitation to visit fitisfreedom.com, where they can access further resources and connect with Kelly Howard for guidance on their fitness journey. The conversation underscores the message that fitness is not merely about the workouts but about embracing the journey, the challenges, and the joy of living an energetic and purpose-driven life. By implementing the insights shared in this episode, anyone can set forth on a more adventurous and fulfilling path toward fitness and health.

Today, you’ll learn all about:

2:07 What adventure means

3:51 Overcoming struggles with staying consistent

7:22 Create a schedule and aim for 80 percent

9:17 Finding and following your Fitness North Star

15:14 Building and using layered accountability

18:54 Where does community fit into the layer

23:22 Expanding comfort zones with new fitness activities

25:46 Making fitness fun and adventurous

27:55 Setting exciting fitness goals for the future

29:59 How adventure shapes fitness goals 

32:00 Expanding comfort zones with new fitness activities

35:09 Where the fun and positivity fit in

39:35 One question Kelly wished Philip had asked

40:33 Where to find Kelly

40:58 Outro

Episode resources:

• Website: https://fitisfreedom.com/ 

• Get a FREE digital copy of Kelly’s new book FIT: Active & Ageless for Life 

🩷 Enjoyed this episode? Share it on social and tag me @witsandweights

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Transcript

Kelly Howard  00:00

For me, like I've always said that my Northstar a couple of them. One of them is that I just want to feel as good as I possibly can as for as long as I possibly can. So I can do all the things that I love to do. And so it's just always looking for those things. It gets you excited.

Philip Pape  00:17

Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host, Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry, so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in. Wits & Weights community Welcome to another episode of the Wits & Weights podcast. My guest today is Kelly Howard, the fitness consistency expert with a touch of adventure and the author of fit, active and ageless for life. Kelly and I met through the world of podcasting she had me on her show fit is freedom. So make sure to subscribe to her podcast and get notified when that one comes out. And today we're diving into how the spirit of adventure can revitalize your fitness journey. You'll learn how to overcome common hurdles to staying consistent with your fitness goals. We'll explore the concepts of a fitness Northstar layered accountability and external versus internal motivation. Get ready to expand your comfort zone reignite your passion for fitness and embrace the sense of fun and adventure. for over 25 years Kelly has helped 1000s of women prioritize their fitness so they can feel great and have more fun. In the second half of life. She invites women to adventure out of their comfort zones by trying new experiences they may have only dreamt of her fit is Freedom podcast, coaching online courses and retreats change lives daily. And she currently calls Houston Texas home, but can often be found kayaking, rivers and traveling trails worldwide. Kelly, welcome to the show.

Kelly Howard  01:58

Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Philip Pape  02:01

I'm excited as well, I think we had a great conversation on your show. And I'm sure we will have another one today. I love your recurring theme of adventure in your work, fun and adventure. Let's just start right there. What does adventure mean to you? How do you weave that into the fabric of your fitness philosophy?

Kelly Howard  02:18

Sure. So I have noticed that there's so few things that women in general, and guys to don't really have to look forward to when it comes to fitness. It's like the next number on the scale. And it's so boring. Like, no one gets excited about the number on the scale when it comes down, I guess they do and when it goes up, they're tragic. And so it's no fun. So I thought, how can we change this narrative? And I thought, you know, what gets me going in life is adventures and its interest can be anything, okay? Adventures don't have to be trekking the jungle, they can be taking the taking the kids to, you know, a new park, they can be adventurous can be anything. But it's something that gets you excited, something that piques your interest, something that you have to look forward to. And it just makes to me a huge difference. Yeah,

Philip Pape  03:15

that makes a lot of sense. I mean, it really does. Because even when you do go after those boring goals, and they, they kind of go back and forth. It's like, what's next? You know, like, what? What do we push, and they're so fleeting, right? And we've heard the concept of enjoying the process or loving the process. But even the process itself can get a little mundane depending on what you're going after. So I know you're like a, you're a big fan of consistency and talking about how you can be more consistent. And that's one of the biggest struggles people say is I can't be consistent, and then it sounds like adventure can be a good way to get you on that path. What are the predominant reasons that people have a challenge with consistency? And then how does adventure come into that? Sure.

Kelly Howard  03:58

So consistency is one of those things that it's it's kind of like a unicorn. And also like something that is, is so mundane, that is part of us, but we don't really realize it because a lot of times people think that when they have to be quote unquote, consistent, it has to be big stuff. Right? Like, you know, the big workouts, the big goals, you know, all the big things. And so often what's very simple is that if we make it small, and that 1% A day kind of thing, it gets so much simpler and easier. So consistency. One thing people will say to me is, well, I'm not motivated, right? Consistency comes from motivation. Consistency actually doesn't come from motivation and motivation. We can talk about that if we want but consistency really comes from those little bitty routines. I'm not a big fan. You know, habits are a nice thing, but I'm not a big fan of the word habit. Because habit is it's a scary word, right? It's like oh, Oh gosh, I gotta change my habits. But if we just make these small little routines that we add in on a daily basis, and we find all the things that we need to do that will help it. Because there's so many pieces to it, right? Like you mentioned layered accountability, there's accountability, there's motivation. There's, you know, that Northstar of adventure. Those are all routines that allow us to become more consistent. So consistency itself, in the end, is nothing more than taking the right step every day, as small as it needs to be. Yeah,

Philip Pape  05:33

I love that approach. Right. Just recently, I was listening to someone talk about how habits, the H word that we don't like, we often make them big and complex, right? Like, okay, I want to get 10,000 steps a day. And when you're getting three, we'll go from three to 10. And think of that as a single step can be a big problem for people, because what does it take to get to 10? You don't just set a number and get the number, right. You have to now? Yeah, I need to incorporate a walk here. I need to change something here. I need to do this. And those are all maybe the little things that you're talking about that are individually achievable, right?

Kelly Howard  06:09

Yeah, it's such a good way to put it because we do we pick these arbitrary numbers that I don't know, we just make up like 10,000. I looked that up one day, I thought, why can't acid and although all I could find is that it was something that came from an arbitrary number that someone else made up and said, this is you know, the number of steps you should do every day. I couldn't find anything on there that said, this is you know, this is the number that's going to make us healthy. So a lot of these things are just like these arbitrary numbers we come up with, and then we think we have to do them. When in fact, if we just like, follow it, our body says, some days we push harder, so much easier. Yeah. The

Philip Pape  06:56

10,000 steps. It's funny, just like less than a month ago, I think I found a source for that. It was like a Japanese pedometer company in the 70s or 80s. And they actually called it like the 10,000, the 10,000 step meter or something. Anyway. Is that cool? Yeah. totally arbitrary. It might have been might have been an atom Bernstein's book you mentioned I'm not sure. But anyway, back to the consistency thing. One other related theme to that is, I think I saw an infographic recently and put it nicely where there were seven days, right, each day was a circle, and some days are fuller than others on that circle, right? And the idea that progress can be measured in different ways. That doesn't mean doing everything every day, or being successful with everything every day. What are your thoughts on that as well, they probably come in many forms. That's

Kelly Howard  07:45

the Okay, that's a big one for me. Like, I think that like one of the things that I suggest to people and I don't have a lot of shoulds. But this is pretty much a should, you should create a schedule every week. Because we both know this, when you have a schedule. It's real. Right? When you people will come to me, and they'll be like, Oh, I think I'm going to do three workouts this week and maybe a couple of hikes. I'm like, great. And when are you going to do that? Well, I don't know yet. So let's not do that. Let's

Philip Pape  08:14

let's figure it out by one day or exactly.

Kelly Howard  08:17

And so when you look at that, and you create that schedule, the next piece of it is that I like to go, can you hit 80% of it. 80% of it sounds kind of like I don't know, like you're not trying hard enough. But life happens. And if you can hit 80% of that whole week, all the circles 80% of them, then you're doing great, you can hit 90% You're like a rockstar. If you're hitting 100% You're probably not trying hard enough.

Philip Pape  08:49

Or your circles not big enough. I love the 80% too, because it I don't know if it has to do with like the golden ratio. There's something that humans are attracted to it that 8020 We see it in the Pareto Principle, right 20% of the effort gives you a percent the results. But I've heard that a lot. And it's probably comes down to the fact that most people are trying for 100% and falling falling away. We were short, and then it's this chasm of all or nothing. But I want to talk about your fitness Northstar for for a second, because I don't know what it is. First of all, you could tell us what it is. And it sounds well. Northstar to me sounds like having having a competence having a deeper purpose or meaning, you know, behind something that's driving you. What is it and how can someone find this Northstar?

Kelly Howard  09:36

Ya know, it's it's a little bit about what we talked about in the beginning. And one of one of the North Stars could be an adventure. But really what a North Star is, is it's finding that thing that gives you more purpose than just the way you look. Right like or just the way the cow just with the capricious scale. says, right? You never know like, what's gonna happen in the bathroom on the scale. So what a Northstar is is I thought, you know, what is the thing that really gets us going? And I'll give you a if you don't mind, I'm gonna tell you a quick story. This is somebody who came to me about a month ago. And she said to me, she said, I said, Why are you here? Why don't we want to work together? She said, I need to lose 20 pounds. Great. Why? She said, Well, my daughter's getting married. Okay, so why do you need to lose 20 pounds for that? Well, I gotta get into the dress. Okay, why? And you just keep asking that way. We know this one, right? We know that if you ask the why enough, you're gonna get to that point. And we got to that point, because all of a sudden, she said, Well, I don't look like I used to. And I don't feel like I used to. And I said, why? And so that's when, you know, her eyes got a little shiny. And she said, she said, Well, I just haven't felt good in years. I said, Okay, so what's it really about? She said, what it's really about is, I'm afraid of the next 50 years, or 40 years, or what I have. And I don't know what to do. I was like, Well, that's easy, right? Really, when you get to that point, you're really finding a Northstar. Because for her, what it ended up being was, she wanted to be there. For those grandkids, she always wanted to be like, you know, deep down inside, she wanted to be that cool grandmother, and the one that took them kayaking, and took them on trips and things like that, like those were all of that wants, but she was unwilling to admit it. Because she thought that, that life had passed her by too quick. And so when we pulled out the North Star that, you know, these are all the things that are gonna make your life shine. It changed everything. Like, yeah, it was she went, she's she's gonna looking great, right? She's already looking great. She because she hadn't, you know, you know, that plateau. She hadn't hit that plateau yet. So she's losing weight, and she's gaining muscle and she's having a good time. But at the same time, the end is going to be so much different for Yeah, and for me, like I've always said that, my Northstar, a couple of them. One of them is that I just want to feel as good as I possibly can as for as long as I possibly can. So I can do all the things that I love to do. Yeah. And so it's just always looking for those things that gets you excited. Yeah.

Philip Pape  12:27

And you said something there that she's that after she was after she started to make progress. She said it's going to be different. In other words, the the satisfaction she gets from that is going to be more long lasting, because it tied to the thing she really wanted. Exactly, even though it also satisfies these other superficial things that we all think we want. Right? Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. And this why approach? So I mean, you know, I've heard that before, obviously use it with clients as well. Like why why why is it Is it as simple as that it may be right. Like I think sometimes we overcomplicate it, but people listening who just want to do this for themselves with a piece of paper right now? Did they just need to ask themselves why? And keep going down that path?

Kelly Howard  13:06

I think so. Okay. And there's one more piece to it, though is they have to be honest,

Philip Pape  13:11

honest with yourself. We lie to ourselves. I mean,

Kelly Howard  13:15

I'm good at asking questions that I'm really good at watching reactions with people, sometimes for people. When we get to a stage where we're where we're uncomfortable, we don't want to keep going. I just came back from a trip in Costa Rica had a group of women there, it was much more adventurous than I had anticipated. And one of the things I was talking to one of the women yesterday, we had a we had a little incident in a river, where we ended up getting our raft, stuck, gets rocking, it was sinking. And we had to get everybody off the raft, and bring in another raft. And she was unstable, not flexible, and didn't have the strength that she really needed. And she looked at me right in the face yesterday, and she went, I have my why. She said, I want to be able to crawl up on a boulder in the middle of a river and stand up and not be terrified. And there you go.

Philip Pape  14:16

It's so true. And I love that example. Because it's not it doesn't always it's not always easy. I'll say to find it. If you're just in a random moment, try to figure out right, like, it might come to you. Or you might even start to go toward one purpose, and then it can evolve, right, you can evolve Exactly. That think about moving the raft. It's funny, because years ago, not too many years ago, we had moved to our new house and my wife wanted a garden. And so I said, Well, we have all these tree trunks that were felled nearby. Why don't we just move them over? And I'm there and I'm like, Alright, here we go. deadlift that thing up and I'm like, I would not have been able to lift this a year earlier. Like that is so cool to be able to you know, your I could support my wife and I able to garden right? It's like little things like that make you appreciate life. So okay, that's, that's awesome. So now we know the Northstar is the deep purpose it can, it can be crafted through exercise through practice and exercise, or it can come to you with with these practices. There's also the accountability piece you mentioned earlier. And we understand how important this is to supporting someone, right? And even teaching people to hold themselves accountable through those daily practices you mentioned. But you talk about layered accountability. So can you explain what that is? So

Kelly Howard  15:31

with accountability, in the end, my end goal is for people to be 100% accountable to themselves. Like that's, that's it, right? If you can be 100% accountable to yourself, and you've just, you've just won, you've won the fitness lottery. But to get there, most of us have never had that kind of support. So I think of it as like a pyramid. So you start with the very, very bottom, and the very bottom of that layer of accountability is something simple. So first, accountability buddies are nice, but you need to know the ones not to use. There's the big bad three is what I consider. One of them is your best friend. Your best friend's job is to make you happy. It's not to keep you keep you on track. You know, when you're when you're in accountability. I have a very good friend, she does this to me every year. She's like, Would you be my accountability, buddy, and I'm like, Oh, gosh. And you know, the texts are flying. And then they start petering off. And then I'm like, how you doing? Yep, you meet. And you know, she's like radio silence because she can get away with it. Best friends know, life partners know, they know every thing, every button to push to get you on the on the couch with the remote control, watching Netflix and eating pizza. Like that's their job, because most of them usually don't want to do what you're asking them to do. And then apps, a lot of people depend on, you know, different phone apps to keep them in line. So I can work. But that can be like, start one that can be layer one issues in an app. Because you know, it works. So then you then you come up and you step in and you're like, what's next layer? Next layer for different people could be different things, one of them might be signing up for something that is a goal of 5k, an adventure trip, or wedding, whatever it is, right?

Philip Pape  17:28

Maybe a challenge, a challenge, right?

Kelly Howard  17:30

If you have that next step, then the next step up is, and you're doing all of these at once. That's why it's layered. It's not like what try one thing, try another thing, but just do it all. Some of it works, some of it won't, then maybe you need a coach, right? Someone needs to like, I've got a client right now she's like, I can't get to the gym, I might hire a trainer. Do not even want to hear from you again, until you hire a trainer. And so you know, a coach. And then in your North Star, you just, it's it's a pyramid. And it's using everything you have learning that motivation, like motivation always falls in there somewhere. It's a learned skill, something we're born with or not, learn your motivation, find the things, find your triggers, all of these things, just like you know, they pile on top of each other. And if you use them all, you actually end up creating a way of being who you are that then you don't need all of it, because you've got it.

Philip Pape  18:34

That is good. You don't need it all. Because you've got Ah, that's so good. Because what I what I was thinking of here is, is the support system raise what you're talking about, I think, right? And I haven't heard it put so elegantly. So I like that I'm going to be stealing this in the future. And I'll give credit where it's due. But because sometimes the way I put it is, is you know, you've got, you've got your community, you've got coaches, you've got yourself, right, like it's kind of what you're saying. And don't it's not like a pyramid of hierarchy of needs, where you have to wait for one to exist before the other. It's just kind of in parallel. You're starting to weave these in your life. Where Where does the community fit in as at the middle part where you said, it's all these different things? The event the challenges center? Yeah, I think

Kelly Howard  19:15

community is probably interspersed throughout, like one way you'd find with communities like right now, we just started an accountability group for the next two months. And we're doing I think there's five people in each group. And I'm kicking it off for you. I'm checking element in with everybody, but it's just starting to get traction. So now all of a sudden, you have these five people who didn't know each other a week ago, are starting to get to know each other. They're, you know, sharing things that matter. And it will keep them going. Right, that will definitely keep them going. And then there's community like your community or my community where you've got those friends that you need, but it is it's woven all in through. Yeah,

Philip Pape  19:57

I love it. So and if you don't have that to be Getting with it sounds like there's a big gap between now where you want to be with a self accountability because like you said, it starts there and then eventually you want to get to that. Ideally 100% accountable for yourself. Now, is that is that the intrinsic motivation we're talking about? Or what do you? What role does self accountability play? Yeah,

Kelly Howard  20:18

I think I think it is just like, it just is what you do. Right? It's like, it's for you, right? It's just what you do. It's who you are. It's what you do. In the story. You don't think about it. I mean, every so often, you might have one, like, this morning, I had one of those days. My timing was off. It was a, it was a wait day timings off. I'm, I'm thinking my first thought was, well, I'll just put this off till tomorrow. And then, you know, I'll do it. I'll do it Saturday, and I have less stuff going on. And then my brain my, the other part of my brain was like, Kelly, I call BS on that, because you will not do it tomorrow. And you know, so what's your options, and, you know, it's like, you've got the devil in the angel on your shoulders, and you negotiate. For me, I negotiate it, okay, I'll cut it shorter. But I'm going to do what I said I was gonna do, and ended up not even cutting it shorter. I just, my day just started a little later. But, but it is, it's that thing where you have to, you have to on this one, just be willing to have super awareness, super awareness of yourself. That that gets you where you need to be. For sure

Philip Pape  21:27

you hit it there at the end with self awareness. Almost anything you take emotion, emotional intelligence, you know, setting these goals, like you said, the deeper purpose, take some level of just intentionality and thinking about who you are what you're trying to get out of this. When you mentioned the giving yourself excuses with the devil on your shoulder. I like that it brought up two things to mind. One is where we, we know so much deep in our soul, we want to do it. So even though we're starting to make this excuse, we still find a way. And we find a way we want to find a way. And the other is it almost becomes the opposite of excuse making sometimes I know, at least for me, when I work out, I will make excuses to work out. Because I haven't I want to do it so badly. That it becomes the opposite problem, which is not a terrible thing to have. It's shows how much momentum you have built into it. Yeah, where some of the other person in the room is like, it's too cold. You know, the gyms too far. You know, it's like, other excuses. Yeah,

Kelly Howard  22:27

no, it's, uh, you're right, it is momentum. Yeah, because you know, a body in motion stays in motion, and you just have to figure out what's going to keep you moving.

22:37

Before my coaching session with Phillip, I was really struggling with staying consistent with my nutrition, Phillip really showed me the importance of being consistent day to day, he also helped me see that it's not a bad thing to take a rest day, he really helps me get in that more positive headspace of a rest day being something really good for me. I've been doing this for a month now. And I'm finally starting to see some progress and my numbers. And I'm really excited about that. And I just appreciate so much the help that Philip has given me. He's always willing to answer questions to offer resources that are totally free, and very, very helpful. So I just want to say how much I appreciate that. Thanks, Phil.

Philip Pape  23:22

So what happens when things get really tough then and life happens, life's going to happen? And it just pushes you past that brink of even the self accountability just not gonna carry through at that point? Yeah.

Kelly Howard  23:35

Perfect. The perfect question, because probably 99% of people that I work with, they've gotten to that point where they went, you know what? I've tried it all. It's not gonna work. I don't know why you think this is gonna work, right? And what that really is, is it's not that they've tried it all, and it's not gonna work. It's that they weren't really willing to restart when they stopped. And that's life, right? It's just restarting every time we have to, like, I mean, it's just the way it is. There are lots of times I came back from Costa Rica. It was an amazing trip. And I was like, Whoa, I am way behind. And what did I do? I just like dove in and started working good. And after three days, I went, Kelly, you gotta restart what matters? And it's not that I just went, Oh, well, I didn't start my workouts right away. So I might as well just give up, essentially, just start again, every time.

Philip Pape  24:38

That's good. That's good. I've seen this happen to me. And also I've seen clients who we work with them for a long time. You see what life brings in terms of cycles? Yeah, and if one bad thing after another can happen to people like within a span of days or weeks, and all of a sudden these things fall off for a decent amount of time, right and it may not be in your control but like you said What is your mindset? Is it okay, I'm done? And it's like starting over, or am I just restarting what I already have? So, yeah, that's a healthy way to think about it. You know, and

Kelly Howard  25:09

the thing is, is that if we're restarting, we have a foundation that we didn't have before. Every time like, people don't realize this, and, and then they'll say to me, oh, my gosh, you know, I was able to do XYZ. And I'm like, of course, you are, like, you have a foundation. You just might have missed some time. It's like

Philip Pape  25:29

muscle memory. I actually, that's a great analogy. It's like muscle memory when people lifted for years, and then they stop. Even if it's 10 years later, they started listening again, the strength comes back quickly. Right? Yeah, your brain just knows it's wired for it. Exactly. Good one. So it should be easier than is the point. All right. So the the whole thing about events, you talked about the middle part of the layered accountability. I had a gentleman on my show very cards recently talked about Miss Sogi. I don't know if you've heard the term. But it's having this big, maybe this scary, like annual event to look forward to? You know, like, for him it was this giant mountain climb. Right. And then you also mentioned the importance of having something to look forward to plans to look forward to so maybe dig into that one. How, what are some concrete examples of where you use that? Or people can do that?

Kelly Howard  26:15

Oh, yeah. So okay. I hope that people listening, your audience likes the idea of adventure, because I'm gonna just come back to this again and again. For myself, I will say that, every year, I go and meet some friends for about a 10 day, whitewater kayaking, I know that if I'm not able to carry that kayak, up and down for miles, if I'm not able to do all the things that it takes, I'm not gonna have as much fun. I am not about to ask somebody for help. So that would be, I guess, in the scope Muskogee for me is that I know that's coming. And by gosh, I'm going to make sure that I put it into my training. For other people, it could be something different. It could be for years, I did like mini triathlon sprint. And so that was always one of those things have always had this one particular one. That was the hardest one ever, like, nobody would sign up because it was so darn hard. And they'd be like, Why are you doing that? And like, it's so hard. You just feel so good when you get done. Right? So, and it can be different for all of us. Like, it doesn't have to be like the hardest sprint you've ever found or a Olympic trial you've ever found. But it can be something that you know is going to push you so far past your limit, that you never come back to who you were before. It's nice. Yeah, expanding that comfort zone. Yeah. Okay,

Philip Pape  27:46

so that that sounds great. I am inspired to think about next year and where that's gonna happen in my life since I had two little two girls, and they love adventure, too. So what does is that enough? Or is are there like quarterly check ins and plans that you recommend? Like what's what's your general philosophy on? Since we're talking about not losing weight and all the boring stuff went? How frequent is your cadence on these kinds of?

Kelly Howard  28:09

Yeah, that's a good question. So I think that, like having watched a lot of accountability groups, having run a bunch of accountability groups, what I've noticed is that people are usually pretty solid for except for let's let's take New Year's out because New Year's is an outlier, right? But if they get started on something, you're usually pretty solid for six to eight weeks, you know, that's they can hang, then things happen. Maybe they've been putting off the work that needs to happen next month needs to get taken care of, or the you know, whatever it is. So, somewhere in that six to eight week period, I always ask people just like, recheck in, you know, restart, almost recommit, then the other number is 90 days. And I like 90 days, because 90 days is such a, it's a quarter, it's like a friend of mine always says it's like 1% of the next 25 years of your life. I'm like, wow, actually, she's right, if you do the math, so that's just like 1% What's 90 days gonna give you and then stretch it way out once a year, like think of the changes that you could make in a year. And if you can look at those and then bring it back always I ask everybody to bring it back to what's next What's tomorrow? Right like what's really going on tomorrow because you can dream all you want but if you're not knowing exactly what's coming up next. Yeah,

Philip Pape  29:36

that's great. And otherwise it's just this black hole leading up to the future of overwhelm almost like what you know there's there's nothing that's there in a way from without those check ins. So it's interesting because I've heard different philosophy or science on on all of this how like having seasons and having holidays are really good for humans in terms of, you know, pushing you to do things Um, could a process itself and I'm kind of asking this selfishly, I lift weights, and I like to lift for a cycle, I like to go for maybe 1216 weeks. And so I think, okay, at the end of that, I'm going to do something very different. And those are going to drive, how I eat and how I sleep and do all my other things. That would that work for folks like just having their process kind of periodized? In that way? Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah,

Kelly Howard  30:26

I know exactly what you're saying. So when I have somebody who's going with me on a trip, usually those trips are a stretch, a big stretch, right? And so when we're training for it, what I asked him to do is to start out, and it's a little different than you because you have this solid foundation, right? So you can do 12 to 16 weeks, boom, you're on it. But a lot of people don't have that foundation. So I asked them to start out like the first week, it's kind of like a build week, you know, or a foundational week, and then the next week, we step it up, the next week, we step it up. And then that fourth week, we bring it back a little bit. Like it's an easier week. And then next next month, you know, step it up, steps up, but it's exactly what we talked about earlier, because every time they come back, they're coming back to a higher level in their foundation. And they're also paying attention to exactly what you said their sleep. Is this working with their sleep? Is it making it better or worse? Now, how's their nutrition? And it allows them to be really cognizant what's going on in their bodies, when in fact, a lot of them have never really thought about it before? And it's always been just kind of eat less calories and, and, you know, do more cardio to lose weight.

Philip Pape  31:46

Yeah, right? No, I like that approach. It's the analogies is be like progressive overload or taking the loads, and you're saying you're pushing and progressing each week, but then you're kind of resetting, taking a break, recovering, and then you're continuing to push. And that's that's a clever idea of people listening, think about how to apply that creatively to different things that they're doing. So that it's not always go, go, go, go, go. And push, push, push. And maybe just add to that thinking out loud. The things in your life that would normally interrupt what you're doing. You can naturally schedule those in that fourth week that put them off with that week. Yeah, exactly. Just planted like when people say, should I should I strength train for the week? I'm on vacation? I'm like, probably not. But like, why don't we think ahead and make sure that that week is the week you don't need? Right.

Kelly Howard  32:33

Right?

Philip Pape  32:35

This is good stuff. Okay, so you talked about there's the big event, and we talked about a little bit of the comfort zone expanding? And I know, Different people use different phrases, some some say, going out of your comfort zone. I like expanding it because because it allows you to kind of hold on to part of your comfort zone. How can I guess where was my question gonna be on? This is like how I how can women in particular because I know that your audience, try these new experiences, you know, to get out of their comfort zone.

Kelly Howard  33:04

So I'll bring it back in. And I'll tell you this, the number one thing I hear people say, when I mentioned anything like, like what we're talking about, like, you know, expanding, they'll say, I don't want to hold people back. Or the flip side of that is I don't know if I can keep up. So when you hear those words, to me, that's like, you know, somebody to stab me in the heart? Because Absolutely, you can. And so how do you do it? So using that, and then just figuring out that it's not as big a push as you think it is? Like, I'll use a little quick story, like I do a lot longest in cycling. I'm not a great cyclist. I mean, I can go but I'm not fast. And it used to drive me crazy, because all my friends would be up there and they get to the rest stop. And then here it comes Kelly right. And one day I started counting how far ahead of me are they really, they were like 15 seconds, maybe, maybe, maybe 30 seconds on a big day. Like I can see him up there. And it suddenly occurred to me that it's just not that big a deal. Right? It's just not that big a deal. And when you can start thinking that way, then it's easier to just relax and do these things. appreciate them and go for it. And and that comfort zone is becomes an easier thing to push. Because all of a sudden you're just realizing that it's just

Philip Pape  34:33

not that big a thing. Yeah, it's almost like you're saying that instead of focusing on the gap, this huge, whatever the gap is, it's more of just continuing to gain toward whatever

Kelly Howard  34:46

they are. Exactly. Exactly. What is the gap in the game. The game

Philip Pape  34:50

of the game. Right, right. Exactly. Did is that on your podcast? That actually sounds okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I feel like I've heard that before. He's either Listen to so many. Alright, so let's bring it full circle here. You know, I'm all about fun, positivity adventure, you know, where does the fun and positivity part fit into this? Particularly for people who made that may not be their natural tendency, let's just say, What are your thoughts on that? And the fun part

Kelly Howard  35:19

of it? Yeah. Oh, well, okay. I think deep down inside my absolute goal in life is to get everybody to go play. Like, I that's, that's what I've always been right? I can, no, I'm like this. And I'm not a good cheerleader, but I can cheer people on. So everybody should play, play gives us it takes our mind off of the pain. If, like, just recently a very, very long, hard hike, I was trying to be playful, because it was super painful, takes our mind off the pain. But more than that, it it gives us something larger to think about something bigger to play with in life. And play again, I don't think a lot of us have as much fun as we should. Really, like it's probably true. You know, we take things are very serious. Life is busy, and getting busier and busier and busier, the world has been probably even a little bit more crazy than it normally is. And we get consumed. And as soon as we get consumed in that our it's like our broad scope of awareness start shrinking. And when we can play more, have more fun. Our scope of awareness increases. When it increases, it allows us to see all the opportunities that are out there for us. And we have better choices, we can find new things to do. We can enjoy ourselves more. So it's probably a self fulfilling prophecy. The more fun you have, the more fun you have.

Philip Pape  36:55

I need to make sure to schedule that go kart I wanted to do with my kids, they just go for it. That's funny you say that because I know in my life with my two daughters, we I'm really busy. But we have we have we call daddy time every day. And there's always some little way to quote unquote play even if the rest of the day is just jam packed. You know, it could be putting Legos together or good for whatever. But but sometimes you're right, we get caught up and you know, maybe plays different for different people. And you could play on your own I suspect and with other people like doesn't matter. Is it more about the social aspect of players just doing something to amuse yourself?

Kelly Howard  37:34

Oh, yeah. So for me, I tend to be an introvert. Okay, actually, most of the stuff I do unless I'm on a whitewater river I'm doing by myself. And you know, like me, you have probably an unusual schedule. So I can go at certain times. So I do play by myself a lot. And when I can I reach out to friends and say, Hey, do you want to go do something? And keep asking until they can? Because there should be for me. It's like 8020 80% By myself. 20% social, and I love that social. And I love the time alone to

Philip Pape  38:13

cool. Yeah, I mean, there's that I encouraged people listening, just think about, especially as we go into the holidays here and so for some people, it gets even more hectic in different ways. How can you find time to play whatever play means to you? I imagine that could be that could be a board game that could be a sport that could be going for a walk at a fun place. You haven't been to believe there's million ways you can define it. Right? It's just something entertaining. Yeah. Okay, really,

Kelly Howard  38:36

if there's something that I have my clients do all the time, as I say, creative, listless. Okay, I want you to just write down if you could do something, what would it be, if you if there's something that you love to do, write it down, and, and keep writing until you've got a list of 2530 things. And some of them are going to be play. Some of them might be you know, reading, like for me taken off top taking time off during the middle of the day to read. That's like, that's like Sneaky, sneaky. But I love it. Right? So. So finding that thing, if you've always got that list, and you can pick from it when you when you have time where you forget. That's

Philip Pape  39:18

great. It's been intentional about it instead of when you're when you're exhausted at the end of the day, and maybe have a half an hour an hour. And now you just go watch TV, which again, watching TV could be a fun thing occasionally as well. But, you know, being intentional about is here. Yeah. I think yeah, no, this has been great. I think we covered a lot of what we wanted to but I do I do like to ask guests one this one question toward the end here. And that is, is there anything you wished I had asked? And what is your answer? Oh, I

Kelly Howard  39:45

love that. I love it. I always I asked people what I'm trying to get, you know, details out of them. Like coaching. Is there something you should ask let me think for just one second. Sure. Um honestly, I don't think so, like you're spot on when you do these podcasts. I love your podcast. Cool. I appreciate that. Yeah, I mean, you, you ask the questions, and we covered a lot of ground. Yes. Yeah. Great.

Philip Pape  40:18

And you made it easy. I mean, yeah, I think we meandered to all the things in that one topic. Of course, we can always talk about a million other things. But in that area, the fun the adventure, the consistency, accountability, I think we covered some really actual stuff. So thank you. Yes, thank you. So what where can people find you, Kelly, where do you want them to reach out to you?

Kelly Howard  40:37

Easiest place is just the website, which is that is freedom.com. It leads to my book, at least my social at least, finding me if you'd like to ask me questions. That's just the simplest place.

Philip Pape  40:49

Beautiful. Okay, fit is freedom.com. And your book is available as well. And I will put that in the show notes so people can can find you. And again, Kelly, this has been a pleasure. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you

Kelly Howard  41:01

very much. And thank you for everybody listening.

Philip Pape  41:06

Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights. Please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong.

Ep 132: The Elf Who Wanted to Improve His Health (and Get Jacked) - A Heartwarming Holiday Story

Today, Philip  (@witsandweights) tells a story about a little elf named Tinsel, to whom many of you may relate. As a father of two young daughters, he has learned how powerful stories can be to inspire us — sometimes just when we need to hear it. So sit back, relax with a cup of hot cocoa and even your favorite holiday treat, and enjoy the tale of The Elf Who Wanted to Improve His Health (and Get Jacked) - A Heartwarming Holiday Story.

Today you’ll learn all about:

1:55 Spotify numbers of the podcast
4:05 A holiday story
11:29 Outro

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Transcript

Philip Pape  00:00

In the snowy village of North Point, an elf named tinsel embarks on an enchanting journey of transformation. Discover how this unassuming little elf with a sprinkle of elfin magic and the wisdom of a friend finds his strength and inspires a whole village, join tinsel and a heartwarming tale of Health Resilience and the power of believing in oneself. Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host, Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in. Wits & Weights community Welcome to a very special holiday episode of the Wits & Weights podcast. If you're watching me on video, you see that I have a little special something up on my head. And if you're listening on audio, you're still in for a treat today. In our last episode 131 Andy Baker on bodybuilding for hypertrophy and an aesthetic muscular physique, Andy joined me for his second appearance on the show to talk about bodybuilding style programming. Today for Episode 132, the elf who wanted to improve his health and get jacked, a heartwarming holiday story. I'm doing something completely different and telling you a story, a story about a little elf named tinsel, whom many of you may relate to. As a father of two young daughters, I've learned how powerful stories can be to inspire us sometimes just when we need to hear it. But before I do, you might have heard of the Spotify rap thing that's going around in the podcast world. It's kind of like a gift spot at Spotify is given to podcast hosts. And thank you to the listener this year 2023 has been one of growth and abundance for the Wits & Weights podcast. Thank you to you. I'm grateful to you. And I wanted to share just a few of the numbers from the Spotify wrapped results just so you can get an idea of what kind of year it was. So one of the stats is that 95% of our listeners discover the podcast this year. So that's tremendous. That's almost everybody who listens to the show, discovered it this year, which just shows you how much it has grown. We had 859% increase in listeners 577% increase in followers. And in Spotify allows you to rank your podcasts as top, your top 10 podcasts. And we are a top 10 for 487 fans. So if you're listening, and you love the show, and you follow it and it's not yet in your top 10. But you think it should be go ahead into Spotify and put it up there. And I I'd love to see a screenshot tag me on social media. A lot of you are doing that already. So I appreciate it. 88% of listeners joined me for the first time this year. Thank you so much. That means so much to hear these incredible stats, I'm just going to leave it at that. I don't want to keep you hanging too too long here. But as we close out the year of 2023, I am so thankful to you for taking the time I know how precious time is. And you've taken the time to listen, to subscribe to share the podcast and the little bit of results that I just shared with you show that we are reaching even more people and making a huge positive difference out there. And of course, if you find the story that I'm about to tell you, inspiring educational hilarious, whatever it is to you touching heartwarming, please do just share this podcast with a friend so they can hear it as well. By the way, it should be kid friendly. So just giving that warning upfront that it actually is probably kid friendly. Now it's time to tell you the story of tinsel the girl sit back, relax with a cup of hot cocoa and even your favorite holiday treat. Remember nothing is off limits flexible dieting, and enjoy the tale of the elf who wanted to improve his health and get jacked. A heartwarming holiday story. In the magical snow kissed village of strong point. Nestled amidst glistening frost covered pines with Northern Lights often danced in the sky lived in elf named tinsel. Unlike his sprightly, energetic and nimble companions, tinsel often felt lethargic and out of shape his body lacking the strength and vitality of his peers. He longed to be as robust and lively as the other elves, who he watched in awe as they definitely lifted heavy sacks of toys and worked tirelessly in the vast expanse of Santos workshop, tinsel harbored a dream, a burning desire to be as robust and energetic as them. More importantly, he desired to be a better version of himself. One crisp winter evening under the sun glow of the moonlight Tencel shared history with his friend Whitney and weights and Whitney known for her wisdom and compassionate nature, not to mention strong points leading health and fitness podcast, listened thoughtfully for eyes reflecting the flickering flames of the fireplace. Tinsel when he began her voice as comforting as gentle as the gentle snow outside. The journey to health and strength begins with a single step. You have the power within you to make a change. And remember, it's not about what you remove from your diet, but what you add in. Let's start tomorrow. The next day. Emboldened by Whitney's words, tinsel set out with a newfound determination. He visited the village library and discovered buried deep among the dusty shelves in ancient pyramid shaped tome by Elric helm Shire and Andrew Moore Ganis elves renowned for their knowledge of nutrition and strength training. As tinsel devoured each page, he learned about the wonders of progressive strength training, a more flexible and personalized way to eat the importance of eating for satisfaction and satiety and how indulgences can be part of a healthy diet, including those delicious sugar cookies from the friendly Baker elves. Tinsel started applying these lessons, he began incorporating more protein and fiber into his meals. Noticing how they kept him full and energized. He learned to enjoy his favorite treats by planning them in understanding that restriction often led to overindulgence. Whitney supported him every step of the way, reminding him that real magic was found inconsistency, not perfection. However, tinsels initial steps toward transformation were fraught with fears and challenges. The bounty of sugary elfin treats was always present, especially during festive times. The biting cold have strong point often made him want to stay indoors. His muscles and his mind strained from the unfamiliar exertion of squats and deadlifts, and doubt frequently clouded his mind. But Whitney was always there. Her encouragement, a steady present, each day is a new opportunity tinsel. Each challenge you overcome is a victory in itself. Remember progress over perfection, she would say, as the festive season drew near. tinsel and Whitney embarked on a mission to transform traditional elfin dishes into higher protein alternatives. They experimented in the kitchen, creating recipes that were both nutrient dense and delicious. The other elves were pleasantly surprised by these nutrients, which were as satisfying as they were healthy. This initiative helped tinsel take a balanced approach to eating embracing proteins, fats, and carbs, and he soon inspired others in the village to do the same. His next step was to optimize his nutrition to make even more progress with his workouts. Tencel started to track his food using a magical handheld device for even greater awareness of his eating habits, shifting his carbs around his workouts and finding more opportunities to get steps in Santos workshop. And out among the frost covered dunes of strong point tinsels physical transformation became more evident with each passing day. His walks around the village turned into community events, and he became a fixture at Whitney's morning strength training sessions and compound lift camps. He discovered the joy of feeling strong and capable, who tinsel learn the value of consistency, personalized nutrition, flexibility, instead of restriction and the magic of rest and recovery. His confidence reached new heights and he became a source of motivation for other elves who struggled with their health. months into his journey. Tencel reflected on his growth. He had learned that health was about more than just physical appearance. It was about feeling good both inside and out. His was a path of self discovery, resilience and a newfound appreciation for wellbeing. He was grateful for Whitney's mentorship and unwavering support, as well as encouragement from the strong point community, which was essential in his journey. tinsels story had become a source of inspiration for many who now approached him for advice and motivation. The highlight of tinsels transformation occurred on Christmas Eve, Santa having noticed tinsels dedication and hard work, not to mention his physical strength and newfound confidence chose him to lead the team responsible for loading the sleigh with toys as tinsel skillfully and effortlessly lifted each heavy sack helping his fellow elves who needed it. Santa commended him tinsel Oh, Your journey is an inspiration. Your strength is a testament to your commitment and belief in yourself. The other elves looked on with respect and admiration. Their cheers echoing into the crisp frosty night, standing amidst the joy and celebration tinsels heart brimmed with a deep sense of pride and fulfillment. He had not only realize his dream, but it also become a symbol of hope and inspiration in strong point. His journey marked by a positive shift in his self identity, a balanced approach to life and cancer. sistent even if not perfect effort, became a cherished story told each holiday season, tinsel story from an elf who dreamt of being healthy and strong to one who achieved that and so much more was shared every year. It was a heartwarming reminder of the power of finding a sustainable approach for life that works for you attained with progress over perfection, a supportive community and a bit of elfin magic. The end, I hope you enjoy today's heartwarming story. And if you couldn't tell much of tinsels journey parallels my own and that of so many of you that I get to connect with on a daily basis. May it fill your cup with compassion, and hope, give you the inspiration to take that next step. And know that I and many others in our community are here to support you. All I ask of you is that you share this story with a friend who would enjoy it and spread the positive message far and wide. For our next episode. 133 making fitness fun again through adventure with Kelly Howard, we are diving into how the spirit of adventure can revitalize your fitness journey, you'll learn how to overcome common hurdles to staying consistent with your fitness goals, external versus internal motivation and how to embrace a sense of fun and adventure to reignite your passion for fitness. That will be the last episode of the year before I take a week off for Christmas and New Years. So if you and I don't talk before then, I wish you the happiest of holidays, a happy new year and a strong end to 2023. As always, stay strong. And I'll talk to you next time here on the Wits & Weights podcast. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights, please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong

Ep 131: Andy Baker on Bodybuilding for Hypertrophy and an Aesthetic, Muscular Physique

Are you ready to unlock the secrets of bodybuilding? Do you know the most effective way to build muscle mass? What is the most common mistake people make when trying to build muscle?

Philip (@witsandweights)  is thrilled to have the incredible Andy Baker back with him today. They discussed Andy’s programming philosophy, strength training for the elderly, coaching principles, and lifting techniques during his previous appearance on episode 60.

Andy, a famous strength coach, co-author of Practical Programming and The Barbell Prescription, and Baker Barbell Podcast host, owns Kingwood Strength and Conditioning in Texas. His three programming tracks in the online Baker Barbell Club include a bodybuilding track that Philip is running for the final three months of his building phase and plans to continue into a fat loss phase.

Philip and Andy thought it would be fun today to talk about bodybuilding, not the big B competitive physique sport but the little b method of hypertrophy-oriented bodybuilding-style training for aesthetic muscle development to improve one’s physique.

They talk about bro splits, the top-set/backoff-set approach, intensity and frequency, the interplay between hypertrophy and strength, and some of the techniques and philosophy behind this training style.

Episode Summary:

This episode is a gold mine for This episode is a gold mine for those eager to understand how to incorporate bodybuilding into their fitness routine for aesthetic muscle development.

We delve into the intricacies of bodybuilding, discussing the importance of intensity versus volume in training and how bodybuilding has morphed over the years. Andy shares his personal experience with bodybuilding and how it has influenced his coaching methods. His insights into the techniques and philosophy behind this style of training offer practical tips for everyone, irrespective of their fitness level.

The discussion extends into the world of powerlifting, where we explore the crucial role of muscle mass in strength. Modern powerlifting standards have evolved to emphasize not just the amount of weight an athlete can move but also the importance of maintaining a lean body fat percentage while carrying significant muscle mass.

One of the key points we highlight is the interconnection between muscle mass, motor recruitment, and intermuscular efficiency. These components are critical to an athlete's ability to handle heavier loads. Using John Hack, the current top powerlifter, as an example, we explore how athletes have achieved this fine balance.

As we dissect the rising trend towards lower body fat levels in powerlifting, we address the debate of whether athletes are shedding body fat due to a race in weight classes or if there are advantages to carrying less body fat. This insightful discussion offers a deeper understanding of the integral components affecting an athlete's capacity to lift heavier weights and how these factors can be manipulated to enhance performance.

This episode is invaluable for fitness enthusiasts, bodybuilders, and powerlifters alike. It is a comprehensive guide that covers the key aspects of bodybuilding and powerlifting, shedding light on the evolution of these fitness disciplines and providing practical tips for incorporating them into your fitness routine. It is a must-listen for anyone looking to expand their knowledge and elevate their performance with their lifting.

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Today you’ll learn all about:

(2:30) Why bodybuilding
(10:08) Muscle mass, motor recruitment, and intermuscular efficiency
(13:11) Advantage of having lower body fat
(26:42) Five-day full-body program
(32:56) Why Andy is running this program
(43:08) Tweaks for women or someone with weaker legs
(46:22) How to modify the exercise to focus on body parts
(50:25) The six-day program
(51:45) The split and top-set/backoff-set
(1:09:14) The mind-muscle connection for a new lifter
(1:19:25) Common mistakes
(1:28:50) Six-week progression
(1:45:26) Where to find Andy
(1:46:06) Outro

Episode resources:

• Ep 60: Strength and Programming for Maximum Gains at Any Age with Andy Baker

• Andy’s website: www.AndyBaker.com

• IG - @bakerbarbell

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Transcript

Andy Baker  00:00

I think a lot of these guys have it backwards where if they believe that volume is the most important thing, if you believe that volume is the most important thing that you're going to reduce intensity in order to get more volume. But if you believe that higher effort training and progressive overload is primary, then volume and frequency become subservient to that.

Philip Pape  00:25

Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host, Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry, so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in Wits & Weights community Welcome to another episode of the Wits & Weights podcast. Joining me again is the super knowledgeable Andy Baker. Last time he was on episode 60. We talked about his approach to programming strength training for older adults, his philosophy on coaching and methods in the world of lifting. And he is a highly sought after strength coach, the author of practical programming and the barbell prescription host of the baker barbell podcast, which just came out with some fresh episodes, and the owner of Kingwood strength and conditioning in Texas. We thought it would be fun today to talk about bodybuilding, not the big B competitive physique sport, but the little b method of hypertrophy oriented bodybuilding style training for aesthetic muscle development to improve your physique. And he knows a lot about bodybuilding and training for muscle mass from years of real world experience coaching people in person and online. And in fact, one of his three programming tracks in his online Baker barbell Club, which I'm a member of is a bodybuilding track. And I'm personally running that for the final three months of my own building phase and plan to continue into into a fat loss phase. Next year, we're going to talk about bro splits the top setback, offset approach, intensity versus frequency, maybe the interplay between hypertrophy and strength, and some of the techniques and philosophy behind this training style. And he is great to have you back on again,

Andy Baker  02:09

thank you appreciate you having me.

Philip Pape  02:11

So let's just jump right in and talk about your personal experience with bodybuilding as a primary style of training. Because a lot of us know we know your history with strength and conditioning, we know starting strength, you know, a little bit of the CrossFit world. And then there's this idea, of course, that hypertrophy is sometimes a dirty word and some of those circles and, you know, inquiring minds want to know how and why do you incorporate this training style for yourself?

Andy Baker  02:34

Well, it's what I started with a mean, if you go way back in the day, from the first time that I picked up weights, when I was you know, 1213 years old. That was the I mean, at the time, if you if you want to if you go back through the history kind of of this stuff, you know, at that time in the 90s, that was the only information that was really available. There wasn't the Internet as we know it today. And so there was no there was no social media, which I know it's hard for a lot of maybe our younger listeners to, to understand, but there wasn't the only sources really out there the primary sources in which people got information at that time was through the muscle Max. It was through publications like flex magazine, and muscular development. Ironman, maybe had one powerlifting article, or Bill star article, but it was a bodybuilding back, you know, everything. All of the information that we had was was bodybuilding. You got publications, like maybe powerlifting, USA, or whatever, but it was obscure, and it wasn't on you know, you could go to any newsstand any magazine rack in the country and find flex magazine and muscular development. But powerlifting USA was very hit or miss for the most part, you just had to be subscribed to it through the mail. And that was it. That was really the only source of information. So when you got into lifting, it was just done bodybuilding style. I mean, pretty much everybody did, you know, unless you were maybe in the sports world, but recreationally. It was all bodybuilding. And then, you know, if you look at participation in sports, like powerlifting, with the time when I was growing up, you know, early 90s or 90s, and, you know, early 2000s, you know, powerlifting wasn't what it what it is today, and that there was one there was no social media. And there was just not wide participation in the sport of powerlifting. It was a very, very niche community. It was a very small sport. And the other thing, the biggest thing is it was all done in gear, it was all done in multiply and lifting suits. That's all powerlifting was done that way when you went to a meet in the 90s, there was no raw powerlifting everybody there were single ply and multiply. But everybody competed in gear and if you showed up to a meet and competed raw, they'd be like, What the hell are you doing? It'd been like showing up to a track meet and dress shoes or something like you know, it just, that's the way it was done. So there, there wasn't a lot of interest in that style. It was a much smaller, niche sport because of that and when things kind of converted over to raw powerlifting I attribute namely to the influence of CrossFit into the strength world, it brought more awareness to the barbell lifts than probably anything else. And by extension into raw powerlifting. Now that's flipped. Now that's flipped, where if you go to a meet, there's very little geared lifting, there's very little multiply lifting, it's all raw. And because of that, there's much more participation in the sport, I just think it's naturally more interesting to people to, you know, see what a guy can do and a singlet and maybe some knee sleeves versus multiply suits. That being said, the my point with all that is that my formative years as a teenager and early 20s, really the only information out there unless you just happen to stumble into a powerlifting gym was bodybuilding stuff. So that's how everybody trained, of course, all kids, all teenagers, you know, when you're 12 1315. So, I mean, everybody wants everybody, there's something about the comic book level development that's appealing, it just is, it's a representation, it's an art of, you know, what is possible of potato, you know, if you want to talk about it artistically of, of potential, you know, something like that. And there's just, there's a draw to it, I think that every young person goes through, then everybody trades that way, I happen to respond pretty well to that type of training. When I was a teenager, and in my early 20s, I found it, you know, I was highly responsive to that type of training, I found it fairly easy to get big, actually was people a lot of people don't know this, but I was actually, I had an amateur, probably the only starting strength coach around, it's actually been featured in Flex magazine when I was 19 years old. So I still have the it was the, I think the October issue of 1999, or 2000, something like that. So I put on muscle pretty easily. And that was not what the that was without the use of drugs or anything like that. So I think when you have some success with something you tend to gravitate to, and do more of it, study it more, put it into practice more. So there was just always kind of a fascination with that. I think what happens though, is as you get older, the fascination with becoming, you know, superfluously, enormous, starts to dwindle, and you start to see a little bit more value, or just get more interested in the performance side of things. And so that's where he's got, you know, a lot of guys follow that natural progression of starting with a lot of interest in the physiques side of things. And then there's a period of time where, you know, you you do want to start, you start becoming more interested in what you can do not necessarily what you look like, especially when you realize that there's a cap on how big you can actually get naturally, whereas theoretically, with strength, there's still a cap. But a lot of times, there's a lot of potential left to be developed. And so I kind of gravitated, you know, at some point in my early 20s, away from the physique development stuff, and into more of the powerlifting side of things, to which I've, you know, met Mark Rippetoe, and became more educated and actually, the performance side of things spent a good decade or more doing that, too, I still do a lot of that, but being more involved in powerlifting, and bodybuilding. But now as I've gotten older, again, just kind of a natural swing back to just part of it, it's just the interest of the customer base, potentially, there's more, again, depend on the pendulum kind of swung away from bodybuilding, into powerlifting, CrossFit, all that kind of stuff during the 2000s. And now you're starting to see the pendulum starts to swing back into the physique stuff. And I feel like now in my 40s, I actually have more to offer, maybe my clients than I did in my early 20s. I feel like, now I have a better understanding as a coach, I have a better understanding of how to put this stuff into practice, in a sensible, dare I say, more scientific way that you know, then I would have in my early 20s, when I kind of knew what to do. But I couldn't have articulated very well while I was doing what I was doing or why it worked. I'd kind of knew what to do. But I didn't really I wouldn't have had the ability to explain it, or put it into practice with more people like I do now. Yeah, I

Philip Pape  09:05

think a lot of us gravitate to your work because of that you're able to articulate it. We were talking before we recorded about how just with all that experience in the gym, talking with people doing this stuff, it comes together. That goal of getting so purposely enormous, a lot of us probably still want to beat the want to get there as a goal. But you mentioned a few things. First of all, the history of all this is fascinating how even the things we dump on like CrossFit had a critical part to play right in introducing barbells to folks that introduced me to barbells and then I came to starting strength and I never I never had had the bodybuilding stuff. Or if I ever did, like a lot of us we were just doing it wrong or you know, doing ineffectively. Yeah, so it's just interesting how it comes together. And you have this kind of open minded approach to, you know, incorporating all these styles, which is why I wanted to focus more on bodybuilding today, you know, instead of just the straight side, but you did mention strength and hypertrophy, and there's always this confusion about how do these Interplay what is the overlap I know sometimes you might get a little annoyed when somebody's like, well, I want to focus on this not strength, you know? Yeah. But it's all strength, right? Like, there's strength everywhere. You mentioned on I think two podcast episodes ago on Baker barbell podcast, three factors, you said muscle mass motor recruitment and inter muscular efficiency, implying that there's this overlap between them on they contribute to each other. Can you just summarize that here? I mean, people can listen to the whole detail episode, but just kind of summarize that. So that

Andy Baker  10:27

was, when you look at strength. I mean, strength is force production, right? It's the ability to, to displace a load or to you know, however you want to define it, but strength is force production, and it's in its you cannot divorce strength from load, you know, the, the person who squats 500 is stronger than the person who squats 400. So what are the elements that affect your ability to move greater and greater loads? What is What are the elements in place that are going to make you go from a 300 pound squat to a 400 pound squat to a 500 pound squat? And really, there's, there's three, and we're gonna we're gonna skip over things like mindset and consistency and determinate, like, yes, those are important, but they're not, we're going to just focus on the more physical side of things. The the primary way in which somebody is able to, well, it's hard to say what's primary and what secondary and all that because I think it changes with the development of the athlete. But by and large, the most important determining factor as to how much weight you're going to be able to move on a given lift, let's just say for one rep max, is the amount of muscle mass that you carry. I mean, in powerlifting, nine times out of 10, the guy with more muscle mass is going to win. You know, it's just you don't see people that walk into the gym or to a meet, you see some enormous big jacked guy with his, you know, traps are coming out of his ears and a big wide back and huge shoulders and big legs, he's going to be stronger, nine times out of 10 than the guy that doesn't look like that. So muscle mass matters. And I think for years, we always assumed it was just the heavier athlete would win. I mean, that was the say on mass moves mass. I mean, in general, the heavier weight classes outperformed the lower weight classes in terms of absolute load, maybe not based on a percentage of body weight, or whatever. But in general, the heavier the, you know, the three weights and the 270, fives are going to move more weight than the 220s and the 190, eights. That's just the way that it is now, is that just weight? Or is that because of the fact that the heavier guys have more muscle. And I think what modern powerlifting has shown us is actually it's not just the mass moves mass or whatever, it's just that when you're 308 pounds, you have the potential to carry a lot more muscle than the guy that's 198 pounds. But what we're seeing now is that if you look at the physiques and the body fat level of modern day raw powerlifting, they're far leaner, I think, and more muscular than what you saw maybe 20 years ago, with some exceptions. You know, there was obviously there's always been big Jack, guys, kirker, loskis, and all that kind of stuff. But there's a realization, it's not just about how heavy you are, but how much muscle you carry. I mean, you the best lifter in the world right now is John hack, in my opinion. And he's the guy is absolutely loaded with muscle mass, but he doesn't care. He's very little body fat, almost, you know, does

Philip Pape  13:11

that? And is was that a race to the bottom with hitting the lower weight classes that led to that? Or is there an advantage of actually carrying the lower body fat?

Andy Baker  13:19

Well, I think that there is I mean, I think that, I mean, I think more and more research has shown that excessive amounts of body fat is can be detrimental to, you know, the ability to build new muscle mass, I mean, things like if you're obese, you know, things like testosterone, and things like that tend to suffer. insulin sensitivity is poor, you know, all those sorts of things. And I think, you know, higher testosterone levels, better insulin sensitivity, those are all things that are good for being able to build muscle mass, you know, just being healthier overall, but it is harder. Most people know just, if they have any experience with this stuff, it's if you're trying to bulk without putting on any body fat, or really trying to minimize the amount of body fat, you know, this is a nutrition guide, if you're trying to gain muscle mass, and you say, Well, I'm gonna gain muscle, but I don't want to put on any fat, it's almost an impossible task. Or it'll take you seven years, yeah, it'll take you forever. But if you want to, like if you're wanting to move up in weight class or just get bigger, there has to be an acceptable level of body fat increase most of the time, unless you're there are a few cases, I think of just genetic outliers, that, you know, most IFBB pros would fit under this category where they just they are able to put on tons of fat free mass. But that's not most of us most, if you're going to want to put on 20 pounds of muscle mass. And you don't want to take 20 years to do it. You're going to put on a little bit of body fat, you know, in order to do so I think and if you're don't care about that at all, if you're willing to put on even more body fat, you can potentially gain muscle even faster. You know, it kind of just depends. It's I don't think that it's a good idea to and I think recent experience has taught most of us this is that, you know, just the seafood diet of I'm just going to pound as many calories as possible. And you know, fast food and pizza and just, yeah, you'll you are going to put on more muscle mass if you're in a massive caloric surplus like that. But even even in a massive caloric surplus, you could still only put on muscle mass so fast. And so you're still going to be accumulating more body fat than is necessary. So there's about it. I mean, you know, you can probably speak to this better than I can, there's a balance there, right? There's, there's a cut off point, where if you say, if you're not willing to put on any body fat whatsoever, you're going to struggle to build muscle mass. If you're doing the seafood diet, where you just eat everything in sight, yes, you're gonna put on muscle mass, but probably at the expense of putting on more body fat than you really want. So yeah, that

Philip Pape  15:45

that was my big turning point after running starting strength of like, needing to learn about nutrition and the folks in your barbell club. That's usually when they come to me, it's like, okay, I got a little bit too much do crazy than on the dreamer bulk. Yeah.

Andy Baker  15:56

Yeah. And so I don't know where I was going with that. Originally,

Philip Pape  15:59

we were talking about the strength versus hypertrophy and the factors you were talking about muscle mass,

Andy Baker  16:04

so So muscle mass, so yeah, okay, I know morale is going out. So item number one is, if you want to dramatically increase the amount of weight you can move, you probably need to get bigger, you need to add more muscle mass, that's going to be the primary determining factor. It's also the most long term solution to getting stronger, because the other two that I'm going to talk about are a little bit more transient adaptations. They are, you're talking about more of the efficiency of a system, which comes and goes, the building of muscle mass, but also the loss of muscle mass is a slower process than the development and or loss of neurological efficiency, neurological efficiency can be enhanced in a pretty short period of time, it can also be lost in a pretty short period of time. And so what were the when we talk about neurological efficiency, I kind of look at it in two different ways. One would be what we call the the, I always get these two confused, but the inch intramuscular coordination, or what we would call motor unit recruitment. So if we look at an individual muscle, like the quads, or whatever, on a squat and their role in the squat, training your ability over time for your body to recruit more of the muscle mass that it already possesses. Okay, so for an untrained lifter, and I don't know what these percentages are, but let's say for an untrained lifter, they're capable of this is a very, very simplified an exercise, fifth guy would rip me apart from my explanation of this, but I'm gonna keep it very, very simple all the time. All right, I think the simplistic version still works as as a way to understand this. So even if some of the nuanced details are wrong, or whatever, it's still, it still works. But let's just say a new lifter, that is, you know, has never been exposed to heavy weight, or whatever, let me say his quads are capable of motor unit recruitment at 30%. In other words, he's capable of recruiting 30 40% of the muscle mass that he has with training, the more that he trains, and in particular, the more heavy training that he does, say with reps, five and below, so the very heavy training especially, that becomes a trainable quality and that he his body will learn to recruit more of the muscle mass that he currently possesses, say in his quads from heavy squatting or whatever. So now, instead of recruiting 30% of the available muscle mass that he has, he's recruiting 40% and 50. And then 60 and 70%. So he's that's a trainable quality. So that's increasing his ability to to produce force without getting bigger in, you know, kind of the muscle mass, you're recruiting the amount of muscle that you have. And then with with motor unit recruitment, you're recruiting more of what you have, so you can increase

Philip Pape  18:45

the tap yes, like untapped capacity that you're gonna finally tapping into. And

Andy Baker  18:50

then you have the third element of it, which is the intramuscular coordination, which is the coordination between muscle groups. So this is why training, leg extensions, leg curls, the adductor machine, the glute machine, set ups and back raises, while doing all of those things individually don't necessarily lead to as big of a squat, as does squatting. Because it's not just each of those, yes, all of those individual muscles play a role in the squat, but they have to be trained to work together in order to optimize the efficiency. So you could have a guy theoretically, that could get that can increase muscle mass in his lower body through through a series of isolation movements, he could leg curl leg extension, adductor machine, you know, glute, whatever those called hip thrusts, or whatever. And, you know, he could take all he could train all of the constituent muscle masses used in a squat individually, would not have the same impact as just training the squat because not only is he working those muscles, but he's working them together and so that they become better at working in a coordinated Fashion, in order to do that movement, if you look at, and again, this is a trainable quality, the more squatting that you do theoretically, there's an upper limit for sure. But the more squatting that you do the more volume and frequency or whatever that you do, potentially, the better you get at it. movements that are highly demanding in terms of coordination and timing, and that sort of thing needs to be practiced more often. This is why Olympic weightlifters tend to clean and jerk and snatch daily. Why do they do that? Because they're they that's what why are they doing that? Why don't they just clean and jerk twice a week, or snatch because that's not enough to really fine tune that coordinate. Because that's those are very complex movement patterns that require its practice. It there's, I think practice could be looked at in two different ways. There's practice in you intellectually understanding what you need to do. So that's me teaching you how to do a clean and jerk, like, okay, you don't know that you need to, you know, brush your thighs with the barbell, or the jump and a certain like, I'm intellectual, like, you're intellectually learning how to do that, and then you're practicing that. But there's a deeper level of quote, practice. At the neurological level, it's your nervous system, learning how to do that. It's why professional baseball players take batting practice every day, even during the season. That's why they because at that level, when those guys develop their swing, it is so nuanced, and so individualized, and so timing oriented and coordinated, it needs to be practiced, almost daily, in order to be for those pathways to be maintained. Where, you know, I think a squat, you know, you could argue that's less, a little less technical, technical, but there's also some there's also some fears, physiological realities, and that there's muscle damage created in a squat that's maybe not as present, say, on a on a snatch or a baseball swing. So that's those are three elements, that if you want to maximize strength, those three things need to be addressed. Now what needs to be prioritized, kind of depends on the lifter, a guy that's been squatting for 20 years, may not need that much quote, practice, like though that movement is kind of ingrained in his body to where he doesn't need but a newer lifter, that's part of why they may only benefit from squatting three days per week, because that pattern is not yet embedded in their neurological system. It's like, you know, to a degree, it's like riding a bike, right? I mean, if you've spent a lot of time as a kid riding a bike, you can take 10 years, and often, you know, that's the same, it's just like riding a bike, you jump back on, and maybe you're a little wobbly at first. But, you know, within an hour, you're back to being able to ride a bike and not feel like you're gonna fall off. So

Philip Pape  22:46

yeah, and I know you see it all the time with the new lifters doing the squat, they're wobbling, they're unstable, and some people are more athletic than others that have kind of have that precision, ability to do it. And some are solid, but it doesn't take long to get at least that first step jump I think in in these elements, you definitely see

Andy Baker  23:03

it in the the effective programming that is used for power lifters at different levels. And guys that tend to focus if you look at the training programming for especially modern day, the guys that tend to benefit the most from high, very high volume, high frequency programming. So these are the guys that are benching four days a week, I've seen some guys that bench five or six days a week, but guys that bench four days a week, maybe squat in some form or another, you know, four days per week, deadlift here. So these higher frequency programs tend to be present much, much more in the lower weight class athletes, your your guys that compete at 165 181 98. You don't see it as much on the big heavyweights. And I think part of that is because if those lower weight classes, they're not building any more muscle. They're not getting bigger. And so what are so what, what lever do they pull will they pull the neurological efficiency lever? Because they are they have the amount of muscle mass that they have is more or less set, they're not getting they're not gaining any weight, they're staying at 165 or whatever. So the only way for them to increase their their total is by the goosing that are pulling that neurological efficiency lever. If that makes sense. They have to get better with the amount of muscle mass that they currently have. Guys that are moving up the weight classes over time, they're going from, you know, 165 to 181 to 198 to 220. As their their obviously as they're climbing up the weight class, they're building muscle. And they may not have to, they may not have to pull that neurological efficiency lever as hard as a lower weight class guy. Does that make sense? Yep, for sure. Right for so. Does that make sense? No. Yeah,

Philip Pape  24:49

it makes sense. No, it makes sense. And so now we're talking about we're for today I want to focus on intermediate lifters. gent general population, right, we're going to assume that the stuff about strength holds for rank beginner, just get stronger, do something like starting strength. You're good. Now the question is,

Andy Baker  25:05

let me let me give you real quick, I want to give it I want to give one more example of this, that this, this, this audience might be more familiar with. This is something that I've meant to point out in a couple of different places that I have it. But guys will notice, often, if they've been, let's say they're squatting twice a week or once a week, and you give them a new plug in a light squat day, somewhere in the middle, they will immediately start to see improvements on their heavy day. So let's just say they've been they've been squatting heavy on Mondays, and that's it. And they've maybe they're having a hard time progressing on their squat. And then you stick a light squat day, so something like three sets of five at 60%. It's not very heavy to medium amount of volume, you stick that in on say, Thursday, within two to three weeks, a lot of times they're heavy day squat starts to improve. Why is that? Well, they didn't get bigger by adding in three sets of light squats later in the week. That's not a very hypertrophy oriented protocol. But what did it do it immediately, that's why I'm saying this adaptation is transient, it immediately increased neurological efficiency. By having that added day, that increased frequency now they're squatting every two or three days instead of once, once every seven days, that that adaptation occurs pretty quickly, the system gets more efficient, really, really quick. And so that's why that, that even that added light squat day. That's why it improves performance almost immediately, because that neurological efficiency thing can be can be manipulated in pretty short order, if that makes sense. Yeah,

Philip Pape  26:39

it makes sense and actually brings up another question because you address this toward the end of your last show. You were talking about bro splits versus high frequency programs for intermediate lifters. And it kind of brings that question to mind of this is getting more popular now. Andy, right. You've probably heard it. Jeff Nipper made it popular three years ago when he was experimenting with it. And now I see it coming up. Again, my own community is asking about it, why not do a five day Full Body program. And you kind of addressed it on your show. But one of the reasons I hear the science guys saying it could be more effective is there's a diminishing point of return with heavy the number of sets. So like if you did, if you do a typical bro split, you're hitting say 15 to 20 Hard sets across that muscle group in one session. Whereas if you do high frequency, you might hit six to eight and eight is kind of that point of diminishing returns. And so therefore, you're able to get more effective reps across the week. What are your thoughts on that?

Andy Baker  27:32

Well, first of all, I don't think that some of it depends on how you define like a heart set, I kind of reject the idea that anybody responds well to say 20 sets per week, 20 hard sets per week, on any muscle group, somebody that, in my opinion, somebody that feels like they need 20 sets, the exception might be back, like back training, but you're also talking about, you're actually talking about different muscle groups. That's that's actually not one muscle group, it gets lumped in. But that would be the only case where I would say that somewhere close to 20 sets could potentially be effective. But say for like the quads, anybody that needs 20 sets of direct quad work in order to grow their quads, is simply not training. Okay, and, and so there's an assumption that you have to either accept or reject it when you talk about volume. And that is relative intensity, how close to failure is optimal. If you accept as I do, it's going to change your opinion on this. So some of it just depends on if we agree or disagree on this, we'll you'll have a different, you're going to have a different opinion on volume and frequency. But if you accept that higher RPE training, if we want to use that term, or training closer to failure is more effective for muscle growth than you then that is going to reduce the amount of volume that you're capable that you either can do or should do. And by extension frequency. So I operate under the premise that, and a lot of the the current research supports this. And I think, you know, most bodybuilders have always kind of known this or accepted this, that training closer to failure is the superior stimulus for hypertrophy versus training very far away from failure. So taking your sets right up to the point where you can't do another one is another rep is more effective than leaving three or four reps in the tank. And so it kind of depends on where you fall on that. But if you accept that, if you say well, training closer to failure is superior. Then you're going to have a different calculation for how much volume is optimal. You cannot like on the quads, you cannot take your sets to failure and also do 20 sets per week when Do you do it all in one workout or spread loaded out? It's just not going to work. And so that, that that's going to impact the volume calculation. So what was your question? I

Philip Pape  30:12

don't know. That was the I kind of wanted to get that out of the way, just because I know we I've had some questions on it as well. And you basically dress it. There's two other things you mentioned on that show I wanted to bring up one is it leaves no room for error, like you have to get everything perfect, right.

Andy Baker  30:26

Like, like when I say, Well, if you're doing 20 sets per week, you're just not training hard. And I'm not saying that because it's like, well, you're not you're just a policy. And it's like, it's not, it's actually because I believe that that that that harder training, taking your steps closer to failure is actually more effective. And I to the degree where I think that that should be primary, and then the amount of volume that you do is subservient to that. And so I think a lot of these guys have it backwards, where if they believe that volume, is the most important thing. If you believe that volume is the most important thing, then you're going to reduce intensity in order to get more volume. But if you believe that higher effort training and progressive overload is primary, than volume and frequency become subservient

Philip Pape  31:18

to that, does that make sense? To intensity training to failure? Yeah, yeah.

Andy Baker  31:22

So there can be a fundamental disagreement, depending on which side of the line that you fall on. But you know, one of the most fundamental rules of programming is that intensity, both absolute intensity, so load, or, or you could as expressed as a percentage of one RM, or relative intensity, which is more effort level. So your RPE, or our IR, however you want to do it, intensity is inversely related to volume. So as intensity goes up, volume goes down, and vice versa. So I tend to believe that progressive overload, and higher effort training is more important than the total, I do think there's a minimum threshold of volume that has to be met. But it's that but that I think, the volume and the frequency of some is subservient to the other factors.

Philip Pape  32:14

And you know, it's interesting, I believe, there, there have been a lot of studies, we want to talk about science and look at Fat Loss phases. And which ones hold on to the most muscle and it tends to be the ones with the higher intensity, right? Sure, it kind of gives you it gives you a good look of what's important when you're especially in an energy starved environment, if that's the thing that kind of keeps it going. Okay, so, go, I want to talk about goals for a second because I want to get into your bodybuilding style programming, some of the details of it, and the bro splits and backoff, top set back off and all that. But I was just talking to my friend, Tony on the way over here, and he's like, What are your goals for next year? And I'm like, you know, my goals are just to progress as much as I can on this bodybuilding program. Like I don't have PRs that I'm trying to hit necessarily having had surgery not long ago. But that does raise the question, Who wants your intermediate advanced? Why would you run this bodybuilding program? Right? What are the goals that you see from your clients? So people don't run the wrong thing for their goals?

Andy Baker  33:07

Yeah, so I mean, the thing is, with when you're trying to talk about like, and again, I'm talking bodybuilding with a small beats are not necessarily competitive. But But still, if you're, it doesn't do any good to talk about this. If somebody says, Well, you know, I don't really want to be that big or that strong, I just want to be fit or whatever, then none of this stuff really matters. Because the, you know, you can basically do anything with any modicum of effort. And it's that's going to satisfy those goals. But if you're talking about I want to be as big as possible, and have as well developed a physique as poss. Even if I'm not, obviously, if you're competing than that, that kind of goes without saying you want to be as big and as well developed as possible. Even if you're not competing, though, and you say, Oh, I just want to have the best possible physique out there. Then one of the fundamental differences between that type of training, bodybuilding training and powerlifting is that there's really no with powerlifting there's only three exercises that you have to do. Right, you have to but with bodybuilding, you have to train everything. Everything has to be trained, you can as a power lifter, you could go in your whole career, never do any work for your side. delts never do any work for your calves never do work for your biceps, there's a whole lot of stuff you could ignore completely, and still be a really good powerlifter as a bodybuilder, you can't really do that, like the and that's why like, there's really the whole concept of say assistance exercises, doesn't exist in bodybuilding. It's all important. Like your side delt work is potentially just as important as your chest work. If you've got it like if you want to be as big as possible and you you have like underdeveloped shoulders, like especially if you're going to step on stage, like you can't have underdeveloped side delts right. You can't have underdeveloped cows or no biceps or what so there's no body part or no area of your body that can be be ignored, which means everything has to be trained hard, and with, you know, with adequate volume. And it's really hard to do that in the context of a full body split. So training your full body, three days per week, or even like an upper lower split. It's so energy intensive to do the type of bodybuilding training that you have to necessarily just, from a practical standpoint, even have just time management, that those things have to be split up into their own, let's say their own days, or at least they have to be given adequate amount of time and energy. In the workout, if you're doing a full body split. And you do, you know, you do squats, and then you do bench presses, and then you do bent over rows on Monday, you're kind of at the end of the I mean, by the time you do all three of those lifts, and you do all three of them with, you know, the amount of volume that they need and the amount of effort and intensity, the amount of effort that they require. The progressive overloading over time, like it doesn't leave a whole lot else in the workout, there's not a whole lot of room for other stuff. And to the extent that you will do other things, they're going to be half assed, like for most people, if you do it, especially as you get stronger, squatting, benching, and bent over rows, all in the same workout, I mean, you're probably pushing an hour and a half, right. And so whatever you do after that is, even if you're trying to push hard, you're just not going to be able to devote the amount of energy and effort level into those sessions in a in a practical way. So it makes some sense to at least split things up, say, into upper body, lower body. But even then, again, as you get stronger, and you develop, as you get stronger and more advanced, you also develop the ability to fatigue yourself a lot more. And so it may be difficult to bench, then over row, shoulder press, dips, you know, five or six different movements, all with the all for different muscle groups, those workouts become both very long, because you have to say warm up new new movements. So you have to move from benching to rowing, there's a whole warmup process for moving to that completely different muscle group. And that just the time and the energy spent just on an upper body workout may not allow you to give adequate attention to all the areas of your body that need development. And so there's a natural progression, I kind of went over this in my last podcast episode of, you know, what that progression might look like if a guy Yeah, even if he wants to be a bodybuilder, let's just say we take some kid who wants to be a bodybuilder on day one, but he's never been in the weight room, I'd still probably start them out with like a three day or week full body program, because he doesn't necessarily need at the beginning to have a dedicated arm day, or whatever he can, he can just kind of hit those big rocks and get stronger on those. And he's going to see progression in his physique. But then as he gets stronger, and he wants to continue to put on even more muscle, he's probably going to have to split things up into like an upper body, upper body, lower body. And then at a certain point, he may have to split that up into like a legs push pole. And then at a certain point, he may have to split up, you know, it's It didn't used to be common, but it's becoming more common now to say split up quads and hamstrings. You know, if you've got a squat, leg press and leg extension, it's hard for to move from that into stiff legged deadlifts, and be able to put in the you know what I'm saying. So a lot of guys will wind up splitting up their lower body work, you know, and then you get to the point where, okay, my arm development sucks, well, you're doing triceps after chest and shoulders, and you just don't have the time or the energy to devote enough volume and intensity to those movements. And I think if you're going to be if you're going to really maximize physique development, you have to treat all of your movements, even the little movements, the tricep extensions, the curls, the side delt work, those have to, those have to be trained with an adequate amount of again, volume and effort level, and progressive overload. And it just, it becomes a matter of resources of time and energy. How do you do that without splitting it up? And so I think that that's where bodybuilders naturally over a course of a couple of years are going to evolve into some sort of body parts split by by necessity. Yeah,

Philip Pape  39:18

it makes total sense. And your your specific program of six days when I first saw it, I was thinking, Man, that sounds like a lot. And then once you run it, you realize makes a lot of sense, especially for us older guys who have less recovery. It actually worked out really well for time management as well. So I'll give you an example for me. My rest day is Wednesday. Right? Your program is a six day program. For me that's four days a week training just like I was always doing on something like a conjugate or upper lower, and then I can work on the weekends and many of us have flexibility to do that on the weekends. You also only have three or four movements so like this morning doing flat bench, incline bench, cable fly, and then I think I threw an ABS or something. You know, you're over in 4560 minutes. It doesn't feel crazy, but you're able to be fresh. for each of those movements, or even the cable flies, you

Andy Baker  40:02

know, I was able to be fresh for those. So yeah, it's, it's a great strategy, the workouts are shorter. And they're also less systemically stressful because you're all of the stress is being directed at one, one area of the body. I mean, when you do a squat, a bench press and deadlift or a squat a bench and a barbell row or something like that, there, you're working way more of your body, the workouts take longer. And I think there's a trade off there between the you know, the the length of the workouts, and your ability to recover that even if you're training more often say five or six days per week, if the workouts are shorter, and less energy intensive, it's actually quite sustainable. And I get like that, that's why I have like in my primer, like, Okay, I know, there's going to be a good portion of you guys that can't do six days per week. But here's an option for five, here's an option for four, that still kind of holds to the same principles, I mean, you don't necessarily have to do six, I lay that out, it's here's the, here's the way to split it up, you know, maximally, and then you can kind of condense that down as needed. And some of that's going to be based on you, and certainly with advanced bodybuilders, all of those guys will train based on weaknesses, you know, most guys and weaknesses and strengths. So certainly, it's like at the higher levels, like guys that are going to compete in bodybuilding, they're going to have a certain, you know, there's going to have a certain amount of genetics that predisposes them to be good in that, and part of that is, most guys will have one or two body parts that are pretty well developed with a minimal amount of work. And so they and, and certain, one or two body parts that don't develop as well that require more work. So to some degree, you're the split that you derive is going to be based on your own individual weaknesses, or just areas that you want to prioritize. So your your movements, if you've got an awesome lower body, than maybe you'll have to split up quads and hams, like if that's if you if you you know, or you just don't care that much about it. Or if you've got, if you've got kids like me, I've I've got, I still train my arms directly. But I've got genetically, probably a fairly gifted set of arms, that if I didn't, I wouldn't necessarily have to train them by themselves, I could tack on triceps at the end of chest and biceps at the end of back and still have reasonably good develops at arms were but somebody that doesn't have that, that really, you know, especially if they're going to compete and they've got very small arms, they're going to need the weight, they're not going to be able to get as good a result to do and triceps. After they do chest and shoulders and doing biceps after back. Like they're going to benefit from having their own day dedicated to just direct bicep and tricep work where again, an adequate amount of volume, effort and load can be dedicated to those muscle groups.

Philip Pape  42:44

So let's continue on that with a specialization, then if you if someone were to run your 60 program, which is I'll call it a balanced program, right. And I know women, I don't know if it's geared toward men or women, but women tend to like more lower body work in their program, and yours has to, you know, to lower body days for upper body, which I kind of like about it, because as a percentage of the week, the dreaded days are smaller. Yeah. But if somebody had weaker legs, or women or whatever, how would How would you make a tweak to this? Well,

Andy Baker  43:13

part of that is part of that is women tend to recover better than men, you know, men, and that's not that they have some superhuman ability to recover. Women are not as good as men at generating the same amount of stress men, generally, because of that higher level, we have higher levels of motor unit recruitment, we have more ability to fatigue ourselves then do women. So it's not that they recover better. They create stress, not as well as we do, if you want to express it like that. They don't, they don't, they don't create as much stress. So they tend to recover like women can operate at a far higher like on strength work, they can they will do their volume work on a strength based program and a far higher percentage of one our end, like women can do volume work at 90% of one RM men can't do that. And it's not that they recover better. It's just that they're their one RM it's not as because they lack the neurological efficiency, that same thing happens, honestly, and this is this is one thing I've and I know like your audience here in mind, too, is not into the drug use and all that kind of stuff. But the same thing happens with guys that are taking a lot of anabolic steroids. Steroids actually don't make you recover faster. They make your output in the workout that much more like your neurological efficiency goes through the roof. So you actually generate a ton more stress during the workout. And I think that's part of the reason why you don't see IFBB pros, training their legs three days per week, or training their chest three days a week. People say well, they recover better, they can do much higher workloads, that's actually not true and they don't actually do more volume. They generate more stress, they create a more significant stress with their training and their adaptation to that stress. It's more profound. Does that make sense? But But But, but their recovery is not is not bad. If you take a steroid user and have them trained legs heavy three days per week, you won't be able to recover from that. So actually someone who's less neurologically efficient could get away with training their legs three days per week. Does that make sense? Yeah, I see. If you have that spectrum, if you want to, you know, if you like, if you wanted to have like a three part spectrum, at one end of the spectrum, you would have this is a very oversimplified version. But on one end of the spectrum, you would have, you know, women on the middle, you would have non enhanced males. And then at the other end of the spectrum, you would have enhanced males. In terms of neurological efficiency, the closer you are, to the female side of that spectrum, the more volume and frequency you tend to be able to do because you're generating less stress in every workout. Does that make sense? Yep, for sure. Yeah. And so that's, I don't know where I was going with that. Oh, for women. Yeah. So women, you might be able to put in, you know, three leg days or, or instead of splitting up, say, if they kept two leg days in there, which I would probably do, I would probably keep two leg days in there. But you might hit quads and hams hard on both of those days, like they might, they might, instead of splitting up quads and like you could maybe they could get away with a higher volume leg workout twice per week as opposed to splitting things up.

Philip Pape  46:19

Got it? That's, that's good to know. So

Andy Baker  46:22

that if somebody like let's say, a guy wanted to specialize in any particular body part, is that a similar approach where they would take the day that's focused on that part and just add, are they adding intensity? Are they adding another movement in there? So I the way that I do, it is like the way that I have my I have two specialization programs. On my website, I have an arm specialization program, and a shoulder specialization program, I'll probably write some other ones. But those are just the two that I started with. Because I have a little bit more familiarity with designing those. So I've got some, I've got more feedback from customers and clients and stuff with those. But what the first thing that I do is I don't look, I don't look at saying, Okay, how can we just blow up the amount of volume and frequency that we do? I don't, that's not again, that's not my primary. My primary, actually, let's say with the arm specialization program is with the training stimulus itself, how can we optimize the amount of stress that this person can put onto their biceps and triceps, so I prioritize that during the week. One is I proceed that day with rest. So I might, so I may give them those Saturday and Sunday off, right, what I do is I bracket the area of the body that we want to prioritize, I bracket that on both ends with rest. So let's say Saturday and Sunday, I'm gonna give them an off day. And then Monday, we're going to hit their arm training. And we're going to do it so that way, they're they are fresh, they're not coming to that workout sore, tired, they're fresh, so that they can maximize loading, effort, level enthusiasm, even volume into that workout. And then the next day, I would do legs, followed by another rest day. So they actually get to two rest days on either side of that workout. And then later in the week, let's say Thursday, we would do like chest and shoulders, and maybe one other tricep movement in there. So I do I goose that frequency a little bit by giving them one really, really hard day of tricep training, say on Monday, and then touch it again later in the week. And then the same thing like we do like a back day on Friday with a little bit of bicep work.

48:30

My name is Tony from a strength lifter in my 40s Thank you to Phil in his Wits, & Weights community for helping me learn more about nutrition and how to implement better ideas into my strength training. Phil has a very, very good understanding of macros, and chemical compounds and hormones and all that and he's continuously learning. That's what I like about Phil, he's got a great sense of humor. He's very relaxed, very easy to talk to. One of the greatest things about Phil, in my view is that he practices what he preaches, he also works out with barbells, he trains heavy, not as heavy as me, but he trains heavy. So if you talk with him about getting in better shape, eating better, he's probably going to give you some good advice. And I would strongly recommend you talk with him. And he'll help you out. Thanks.

Andy Baker  49:14

And I think where a lot of guys go wrong, as they say, Well, I want to develop my arms. So I'm going to, I'm going to have three dedicated or I'm going to train my arms heavy and hard and high volume Monday, Wednesday, Friday. So I'm just going to go apeshit with volume and frequency effort like and I'm going to just going to annihilate my arms. One, it doesn't work that well, because recovery is not going to be good, too. There's going to be interference effects on the other the other upper body work that you do. So when you do chest shoulder, work backward. Where are you going to put that in? If you're training you're it's like you're going to be now instead of like letting your arms rest and recover after you bomb the shit out of them. You got to go right into like a chest day or a back day or whatever. So you're training alarms. Yeah, yeah, you're training those damaged muscles and I think Like in order for a muscle to grow it, it needs adequate stimulus and it needs adequate rest. You don't the way to do it is to is to maximize the, what I was saying before maximize the stimulus, but not necessarily through just bombarding that muscle with more volume and more frequency. Does that make sense? Yeah,

Philip Pape  50:20

makes sense. Yeah, I was wondering the context, even though of the Six Day Program, is it already? Are you already maxed out effectively? And you're talking about now substitutions for specialization? Or do you take take the day where you're focusing on that one body part, now you have two days around it that don't have that body part. And you can still apply the same approach?

Andy Baker  50:40

Well, if you do this, like if you do the six day, like you said, the six day program that I laid out, it's very well balanced. Like if you just take it, if you just look at it, you know, on paper, it pretty well balances everything. But if you want it to maintain that six day program that you want it to prioritize, say your arms, what I would do, you've got the arm day on Friday, on Monday, on your chest day, I would just add a tricep movement after you do your chest work, and then a bicep, one bicep movement after your back day, and then just keep your arm day in there. So I do I do move that frequency lever a little bit, but not a ton. Does that make? Does that make sense? I

Philip Pape  51:20

guess no, you're not interfering with the body parts day itself. And you're putting it far enough away from that day to kind of just hit it a little bit more. And that's

Andy Baker  51:27

the way that that six day program is laid out. It allows you to do that with just about any muscle group. I mean, you could do I think it might be a good idea to let some people know what we're talking about is to actually lay out the six day split. Yeah,

Philip Pape  51:41

let's try to I'm jumping all over the place to the split. And then I want to get into things like top setback offset, which I think is pretty cool. So that's

Andy Baker  51:48

the split. And you know, it kind of the joke is Monday is chest day, like Yeah, you know, like everybody, but yeah, Monday is chest. Tuesday is back. Wednesday is quads and calves. Thursday is shoulders and traps, Friday, biceps, and triceps, and Saturday hamstrings and then calves again, and then Sunday is an off day. So there is that's pretty well balanced, like every major muscle group has its own day. But again, the idea though, that like the criticism of a split like that is well you're only hitting muscle group, once per week. Well, there's two reasons why that's the well, there's a main reason why that's not true. And that's because the effect of overlap, like overlap is a real thing. Like there's a natural overlap of and this is influenced mainly by your exercise selection. So let me let me lay that out a little bit. So people can see that, even at if you're worried about frequency of oh, I'm only you said I'm doing shoulders on Thursday, like I'm only hitting my shoulders. Once per week. Well, that's not really true. If you look at your chest day, I always have a move an incline movement. On your chest day, it may be the first movement, it may be the second movement, but there's always an incline press on your chest day. All your EMG studies will show that inclines hit the front delts just as well as overhead pressing does. So right there. If your overhead pressing on Thursday with a machine or dumbbells or a barbell, whatever and then hitting inclines on Monday as part of your chest stay right there, you've got two direct stimulus stimuli for the front and the side delts. On your back day, any rowing movement that you do, especially rows where you've got, you know, elbows high, you're pulling in line with the chest, if you're, that's gonna, that's a tremendous rear delt movement, like you're going to get a lot of rear delt stimulus from basically all of your rowing movement, and then you're hitting them again, in isolation on your shoulder day. So rear delts are getting hit twice per week, traps might get hit three days per week, because I would generally have people do like, say a shrug on Thursday. But most of your rowing exercises that you might do on your back day are going to incorporate traps. And then on your hamstring day, I usually have some sort of deadlift variation, the stiff leg deadlift and RDL, or even a conventional deadlift, all of which are also going to hit the traps. So even though we've got quote, one on paper, we've got one day for doing traps, they're actually getting stimulated three days per week, triceps are going to hit Get hit as many as four days per week. You have a direct tricep, you know, workout on Friday, but when you do overhead pressing on your shoulder day, when you do all of your chest pressing movement on Monday, those are those are hitting your triceps. And if you do, certainly things like pullovers but even things like chins where there's a lot of shoulder extension work that actually hits your triceps. So your triceps are actually getting hit four days per week only once really hard and really directly but that whatever need there is for more frequency is more than covered. Yeah, with something like this, you know, and then the leg days the same thing like if you lost if you know if you do a quad workout that has squats and leg presses and things like that there's going to be some hamstring and adductor overlap in there and Then you know, and again, you can be intentional with this by through your exercise selection, if you say, Well, I really want to hit my chest a little bit more, alright? Well, when you do your, on your tricep day, make sure you're incorporating things like close grip, bench pressing, and dense, like you're gonna, those are effective tricep movements, but there's a ton of overlap on the chest. And so you can very, very easily create a scenario where every muscle group is getting hit a minimum of two times per week, even if on paper, it's really only one day. And I actually think that's a better way to do frequency than is trying to annihilate every muscle group two to three days a week, actually think recovery is better. And the idea that you're somehow going to atrophy, or lose muscle mass by, you know, only hitting it hard once per week is not true, like your your triceps are not going to atrophy, when they're getting stimulated four days per week, even if, on three of those four days. It's quote, indirect,

Philip Pape  55:59

for sure. And I'm feeling it. I mean, I'm walking in right now, where as soon as something gets hit, maybe two, three days later, I feel it again, you know, I feel it again. So it's kind of coming back, but not so frequently that you're training through soreness. And for those of us guys who have like the low back fatigue, I've found this program extremely great for that kind of recovery, even during fat loss, like and we can talk about that. But just it which is counterintuitive to a lot of people, because we're thinking six days a week. So part of part of the movements, let's talk about the top setback offset approach they incorporate because I think that's pretty cool. And the fact that not everything is you know, three sets of eight to 12. Right, right. What's what's behind that?

Andy Baker  56:36

Well, it is six days a week still. So you do run the risk is if even even though like I said the workouts tend to be shorter, they're less systemically fatiguing, it's still you're still in the gym six days a week. And if you overdo things on the volume side of things, it is going to wind up being a whole shitload of work that's going to be hard to recover from. And so you really can't bombard you really can't do, you know, 15 or 20, even if it was more effective, which I don't think it is, but even if it was, it still would be very hard to do say 15 to 20 sets per muscle group, like you will wind up still overtraining to do that. And so, again, you have to look at, you know, if you're gonna be in the gym six days per week, the idea is, yes, you're in the gym six days per week, but basically, all of your workouts are under an hour. You know, I mean, it is possible to run them up a little longer, especially if you take more rest time, or you just bullshitting around or whatever. But it's the main reason around that Sunday Ticket is it is. But if you're really focused, and you really get in there, you get to the warmup sets, you time, your rest periods, and you don't have to rush and rest periods, but you keep track of your rest periods, you stay off your phone, you know, all that kind of stuff, you can get all of these workouts done in under an hour, you know. And so that's really the only way that that six day a week program is sustainable over a long period of time, is to keep that volume minimal. And again, if you operate under the notion, like as I do, that your effort level, taking more of your exercises to failure is an important component of muscle growth, then it limits the amount of volume that you can do in a given workout. You can't, you can't do you know, 20 sets of quads and push you're going to be having way too many of your sets be just submaximal junk volume is what I would consider so. So it winds up being, you know, what I have found, as I've gotten both older, but also stronger, and also better at delivering a stress to a given muscle. And that comes through a lot of different things when it comes through just mindset like Do you have the mental toughness and the grit to really push hard and not rack the bar, as soon as it gets hard? Or do you have the grit to really push through that. But I also think that there's a, you know, as you get stronger, and the load increases on all of these exercises, that influences the amount of volume that you can do. But also things like mind muscle connection, and really understanding how you know how muscles work, and how things are supposed to feel and really getting good at like all of those lend themselves to being able to generate a high high level of stress with less work. And the analogy that I always use and also exercise selection. Also pick picking and choosing the exercises that deliver the optimal amount of stress to that muscle group through taking it through a full range of motion. Having a longer eccentric component, limiting the amount of limiting the amount of work that other muscles like this is where you might consider you can make the argument that a hack squat is actually a better quad developer than say like a low bar squat because of the fact that you did it. Other quads are doing all of your taking the quads through a full range of motion and it's really only the quads that are doing the work. So when you take that to failure, let's say or right up to failure, it is your quads that are failing verse is when you take a deadlift, this is the I've made this. I've played devil's advocate on this for a couple of years now. And just to try to get people to think when you take a deadlift to failure, what is failing? You don't know. Right? You could be any number of things. Could when you take the Romanian bottleneck, when you take a Romanian deadlift to failure? What's failing? Yeah, probably. So you take a leg curl to failure, what's failing, you definitely it's the hamstrings, right? When you take a hack squat to failure, what's failing the quads. So that starts to get into that the whole Mike is retail concept of the stimulus to fatigue ratio, the stimulus is increasing on that muscle group. But the overall amount of systemic fatigue is less. So by choosing better exercises, doing the exercises in the right manner, from a from a mechanical standpoint, you know, when you do a hack squat, having your feet low and narrow on the platform versus high and wide on the platform, makes it harder on the quads. So doing when you when you start to manipulate your exercise selection to be more stressful on the muscle that you're trying to target, you're going to need less volume. Make sense? Does that make sense? Yeah, and excited. And then you couple that with extremely high effort level, you know, you can you can do one all out set Hack Squats, is potentially more. here's the, here's the even better comparison, a hack squat versus a front squat, a Barbell Front squat, like people love to point at front squats is like the preeminent quad movement. I don't think that it necessarily is because most people fail the front squat because of their inability to hold the bar on their, like, it's not their quads that fail, it's usually their abs or their low back or their upper back, like you're so limited by something that doesn't have anything to do with the movement, that it makes it not not as good of not as good of an exercise. So you, you probably can't do just one all out set of front squats and get the same stimulus as you would to one all outside of Hack Squats. If that makes sense.

Philip Pape  1:02:09

Yeah, it makes sense. And as you're saying, as I'm thinking of all the different techniques you have programmed in, I was looking at just the last week alone, on squat day, after some sort of front squat or safety bar squat, you had a single all outset of I don't know, it was programmed in there. I did a Platts squat, but it was the same intent it was to hit your quads really hard just for one set. You also have almost every day, the the top setback offset was just two sets, but you're doing it in a heavy range and the more of a hypertrophy, like you know, higher rep range. So then there's the DC method, there's all these things that you incorporate that Keep it keep the session short, but really let you hit the the muscles.

Andy Baker  1:02:46

Yeah, that's so that's, and that's part of the reason that that works, when coupled with the right exercise selection. So when you're, when you're doing movements that really allow you to target the muscles that you're trying to work, you take the muscles to a full eight range of motion, they can be loaded progressively over time, they have a longer eccentric component, all of those sorts of things that put a ton of, they're not limited by other muscle groups, all of those things are going to reduce the amount of volume that you're going to need. Because it's a better tool, it's a more stimulative tool. And so that's, I think that's a part of where, you know, that comes from, is, is and I found that with those types of movements, you can generate more than enough stress with to all outsets. And I typically will do, that's just one of those things that it just comes through trial and error of, you know, you do one kind of heavy, you know, one set to kind of maximize loading that like four to eight rep range, and then strip some weight off and do a second set like maybe an eight to 12 rep range. And you put push both of those sets maximally, you're pretty well done with that movement. After that. It's

Philip Pape  1:03:54

you It's It's hard man, you know, it's hard, you think it's easy on paper, or some people do, but it's if you're pushing the right load, it's it's tough.

Andy Baker  1:04:02

And part and part of that is you look at I look at this, and this is something that you kind of I borrowed kind of from the sprinting world, is, when you're looking at how much how many sets to do on an exercise, it's how much performance drop off is there from one set to the next to the next. And if you're losing a significant amount of performance ability from one set to the next, you're really pissing in the wind or just piling up fatigue with less stimulus. So like if you put on three plates on a hack, squat machine, the four plates, whatever it is, and you push, you know, one all out set of, say 12 reps and it's just you know, that 12th rep you could just barely get it, you know, you took that you could not have gotten a 13 throughout. If you do if you rest say three to five minutes and do another set at that same load. What's going to happen to your reps, well, they're going to drop down to like six or seven like you're going to have a massive so I look at that As I'm not really creating any new significant stress without additional set, all I'm doing is compiling fatigue. And it's the same way sprint coaches tend to look at track workouts is that what speed drops off at a certain amount of repetitions, let's say you're training a guy for 100 meter sprint or whatever, once the speed drops below a certain threshold, they're not training speed anymore. So they have they're going to cut they're going to cut the workout off. Does that make sense? So that's it's not an exact, perfect analogy. But it's something I feel like carries over to the bodybuilding or strength world or whatever is like a certain amount of performance drop off is a good a good way to learn what your cut offs should be volume wise. So I like like to, that's why I like the one heavy top set, followed by the one lighter back offset, take both of them maximally. And then that's it like you've you've pretty much it's time to move on to a different exercise like I've, I've extracted everything that I'm going to get from that particular movement. And I'm going to get more benefit from just moving on to a different exercise.

Philip Pape  1:06:04

Yeah, and just how much more time do you have? By the way? I got? I got plenty of time. Good. Yeah. And it's not like everything is like that, because you'll have pre exhaustion, I guess is what you're going for. When you start with a lighter movement, let's say lateral raises on shoulder to you might start with that. And it's it might be three, four sets. And then you might even have, say pull ups or chin ups on backdate, you might have five sets, it's some places it makes sense right to have.

Andy Baker  1:06:30

Yeah, because their volume. And that's just like the pull up thing like that's just that comes directly from my own kind of training experience is this funny thing happens to me on pull ups is like, let's say the first set that I do, I get like 10 or whatever. And then I do a second set. And I might get like seven. But then I can do a third a fourth offense of a six. Yeah, it's never drops off. And I think again, that's not that the back has some superhuman ability to recover better, it's that certain, it's harder, it's harder to generate the same level of stress on say, a pull up, like you're not actually taking that muscle to absolute and complete failure in the same way that say a half squat does to the quads. Does that does that make sense?

Philip Pape  1:07:16

Like it doesn't, I've always wondered that too. It's like, am I not training hard enough and previous sets? Or is it just recovering that that much, it's

Andy Baker  1:07:23

the same like with a lateral raise or something like that, like you, you can't one you can't load those things up very much less. So there's like an inability to just progress and load. And there's also because they're so mechanically disadvantaged, is that it's actually hard to really create a ton of stress where that where that, that that muscle group is just done like it's exhausted, like you can do, like on the pecs, the quads, even the hamstrings to some extent like, like, not all muscle groups are the same, like it's not that the muscle groups are different, it's just that the movements themselves are harder to generate the same amount of fatigue or like, even like with back like a barbell row or something like that, like, like you don't actually really hit like true failure becomes like technical failure, like they just get really really sloppy, whereas like on a bench, you know, your chest pressure go in, and then like all of a sudden boom, like, it just stops, like no force can be generated from that like and part of that's just your positioning, like the way that you're locked in, you can truly take that muscle to failure. So like pecs, quads, things like that tend to be easier to actually take to like true failure. Whereas other exercises, pull ups, lateral raises certain other things, you just can't, you can't generate enough stress with a low volume. So I tend to operate at a little bit higher volume there to get this equipped, same equivalent amount of work in.

Philip Pape  1:08:45

And let me ask you about that for a newer a newer lifter, newer lifter, but a lifter new to this style of training. There's the mind muscle connection, there's the temple, there's things like that when I think of a lateral raise. Sometimes I have to remind myself just to slow down, take it easy and really pull with adult like Don't you know, don't get too much of the traps involved. Don't like use too much momentum. And then you realize you don't have to go as heavy, either. Like what are your thoughts on helping someone get to that point through their training, so they're really lifting want, it

Andy Baker  1:09:16

takes time? Like mind muscle connection takes time. I do think that it matters. Like a lot of people say well, that doesn't really matter. It absolutely matters. Like, like you're gonna get like if you come off of a set of lateral raises, and your side delts are just blown up and they're, they're pumped and they're burnt, like you're gonna get better growth than the guy who comes off a set a lateral raises that's like, what is this work? Like? I don't know, like, you know what I mean? And that's how most like beginners are especially like backward, they'll come off of a pulldown machine. They have no sensation whatsoever that their lats were worked it's all forearms or biceps or anything other than the her laughs Yeah, right. And it but a more advanced guy. He's going to come off of a pulldown machine or Whatever he's gonna come off of that and his lats are going to be burning and blown up like, it's, it's easier on certain muscle groups like you don't have to teach mind muscle connection on a leg extension, like you put somebody on a leg extension machine and have them beg out 10 or 15 reps, whether they're more gifted athlete or not, their quads are going to be burning, right, they're going to be pumped, they're going to be burning, like, there's no doubt, like what muscle group is doing that work. But that's just because of the mechanical nature of that lift, it locks you in to the point where there is no other muscle group that can contribute to that movement other than the quads. And so it's easy to establish that mind muscle connection on that when it's something that's really, really formed dependent, like a lateral raise, or most of you like most of your rowing exercises, or pull downs, guys do those for years and never really feel their back. And it takes time to do that. And then once, once you start to develop that mind muscle connection, and then you you pair that up with loading and effort level, and all that sort of thing, then it becomes even more effective, because you're really, really aware of like, what you're targeting, and how to how to slightly manipulate your grip, or your back angle or the touch point of the bar, so that you can really, really feel the muscle that you're trying to work. And that is I don't think that's an unimportant thing. Because if you're trying to do a movement, like, are we just trying to row or are we trying to hit the lats or the upper back or whatever like, and you need to learn those types of one is just time. But two, I think, like machine exercises can be really helpful on this, like, you're going to learn like on a like a chest supported seated row machine, you're going to learn how to feel your back on that, more so than you will on a barbell row like you're going to, and then you can take the lesson that you like how to really squeeze the scapula and like really feel all the musculature of your back and your lats and stuff working on that chest supported machine row, which is a more simple movement. Now you take that mind muscle connection that you've developed there and try to translate that into a more complex movement like a barbell row. So sometimes, like just stepping back and going to we think of like a barbell row was like a basic movement. But really like a, like a chest supported, machine row would actually be more basic in that regard in terms of it will really teach you the proper mechanics of rowing. Like you'll develop that mind connection faster on that. And actually like on like lateral raises or something like that, like one of the better like the one of the best ways to kind of learn it's like on one of those seated lateral raise machine, where it teaches you to hear Yeah, like your your, because most guys like on a lateral raise, if you watch them, they're focused on the dumbbell. So they're focused on the dumbbell getting up high, but not their humerus, and the job of the side delts is to actually elevate the humerus up. So like learning how to do that, but with a dumbbell held out in your hand. So you're not just swinging the weight around, you're actually using the side delt to abduct the humerus, like that's like so just like they learned some some of it is just intellectual understanding of anatomy and muscle function. Like what, what is this muscle? What is it actually trying to do like on a like, like on a chest, like your chest, like, the role of the PEC is not to press the bar out. It's to add up to the humerus, it's actually sort of like a fly is actually technically a more direct pectoral stimulus than, say, a benchpress. But if you understand that, what the pecs role in the benchpress is to I don't know if people can see but like, if your arm is, you know, abducted out here, and you're trying to draw it closer to the midline of your body, like that's the role of the PEC. So if you can think about that, while you're bench pressing, it's going to enhance that mind muscle connection and in your chest pressing movements, if that makes sense. Yeah, like

Philip Pape  1:13:48

probably better for the shoulders too, because you're not trying to like fooling the shoulders forward.

Andy Baker  1:13:51

Yeah. Or like even even certain things like, like, I've made the argument before, like, I actually think bench pressing is a good PAC developer, but not in the same way that a power lifter might benchpress like power lifters guard Yeah, power lifters are focused on moving the most amount of weight from point A to point B not not to try to stimulate the packs. And so a powerlifter might take a really wide grip, have a big arch, and lower the bar down low onto the torso and hit even like in the upper abs, like if they've got a little belly like actually hitting in the upper abs, or like far below, you know, the the, like the sternum like might actually be a stronger bench. But if you look at what is the peck doing in that movement, sometimes it's not doing that much as if you were if you lowered your arch a little bit, touch the bar up a little bit higher and focus more on the actual function of the chest like that actually makes for a better that's the argument that like a hammer strength chest press machine is better than a barbell bench press. That would be the argument because it actually takes the PEC through, it's more a fuller and more natural range of motion then does a barbell, but if you're aware of muscle function, you can kind of manipulate those movements a little bit to get better contractions out of them. And so that's, that's, that's a part of that as well. So I

Philip Pape  1:15:08

think it's very important all of this because you know, people listening, I think a lot of people treat accessory and are no, we're not calling them that. But these isolation movements as easy, right? It's just, you just go through the motions, treat them as technical as as low bar back squat, and really learn the anatomy, what

Andy Baker  1:15:25

actually almost almost even more so like, I tell my guys that, like, when I have an online client, you know, that's more interested in hypertrophy, I'll be like, alright, this is our first week together first couple of weeks, like, I want you to send me videos. And it's like, what the videos that they send me are like the squat, the bench and the deadlift, right, like the big movements, but I don't see videos of their lateral raises, and their curls and their triceps stuff. But I'm like, No, I want to see that too. Because actually, the technical execution of those movements is just as important, if not more important than the big lifts, like, like on a squat, I don't teach my muscle connection on a squat, like I teach mechanics, right? Like, but on, you know, you know, some other movement, I'm going to be more focused on like, learning, like making sure that guy is really, really technically executing that movement well, and feeling that movement, where he's supposed to be feeling it. So it's, it is like mechanically, the little, the quote, the little stuff, it's just as important, if not more important than the big stuff. And that's where, again, yeah, the idea that, and even for a powerlifter. Like, if you're going to be doing these bodybuilding style accessory movements, to support your squat bench and deadlift, you still need to do them almost with the same mindset that a bodybuilder does. Like, it's not less important for them, because the idea is still you're doing tricep extensions to what to build muscle in your triceps. It's the same reason a bodybuilder would do it. So like the technical execution definitely matters. And I think the better you get at the technical execution, and the more mind muscle connection you can develop. And again, you couple that with increased strength, more mental toughness, or crit or whatever you want to call it, more of a comfort level pushing to failure and beyond, then that starts to cut down on the amount of volume that you would need to do.

Philip Pape  1:17:12

Here's more for the work. Yeah, yeah, here's

Andy Baker  1:17:14

a great analogy that I love to use, okay. In terms of, if you have a guy, like, let's say we have a board, we have a two by four, and the object is to hammer the nail into this two by four. And I give you a nail, and I give you a big ol heavy crescent wrench. And I say, alright, hammer that nail into that. Can you do that? Yeah. And how many times do you need to hit the nail to drive it all the way into the board? Maybe 70 times, right? And so if you're using a bad tool, for this task, you may come to the conclusion, well, it takes 70 strikes to drive a nail into this board. But what if I take the crescent wrench away and I give you a hammer? Well, now you just drove it in and 15 hits, right, maybe you're not a good craftsman, right? So you still have to hit this nail at times, but you have a now you have a better tool, right? Just in this is exercise selection you're taking you're have a better tool, it takes less volume, less number of strikes to accomplish the same exact task, because you'd have a more efficient tool. Now, give that good hammer to some guy that's been a carpenter for 20 years. You ever see those guys driving nail? It's like my dad, like, yeah, it always pissed me off, because like, we would do be doing fencing or something and heat, my dad would take it and Bobo, you know, two hits, and the nail is driven. And it took me eight times, you know, to drive that same nail, because of the skill. He's and that's the same thing if he's using a better tool, but he has more skill. And so in the hand, the the right tool in the hands of a more skilled person, it's going to take less strikes or less volume, if you want to call it that to accomplish the same task. And I think it's exact same thing with trading is that a stronger, more efficient user of a good tool can do the same, it can get the same benefit from a hell of a lot less work.

Philip Pape  1:19:08

Yeah, and this is training like that's the point even the bodybuilding stuff is training. So treat it like that skill. And it's good reminder to me to you know, get up and go to go to in tomorrow really make the most out of my time. But So besides that, what are what are some of the other mistakes you see people making on this style program?

Andy Baker  1:19:27

I think I think, like, I don't, I don't want to call it a mistake. But learning opportunities. Well, it's a mindset shift. In a way I think it's very it can be very difficult for guys who they, they maybe they're they're coming from a strength background, or whatever they've put a certain amount of time into their say their squat bench and their deadlift, their one of their one RMS and these lifts and they don't when they make a shift, they say okay, well now I want to do hypertrophy or bodybuilding or whatever You Your one Rm is not a get because of the things that we talked about in the beginning of this episode, which was the neurological efficiency, your one Rm is very much going to be influenced not just by the amount of muscle mass that you have, but also the amount of volume and frequency that you do on that particular lift. So you're, if you reduce that, if you already and you switch to a slightly different style of training, like, it is possible that your one rep max is going to go down, because you're not training in a way that prioritizes that because you're not focused on that that neurological development of, of just a given lift. And so there's sometimes can be a mindset shift of it. It's not that strength doesn't matter in a bodybuilding site, it does. It's just one RM strength and the squat bench. And deadlift is not the key component for developing more muscle mass like and so when I talk, like when I say strength is still a part of muscle building, like you have to get bigger to get stronger. But you also have to get stronger to get bigger. Like it's a it's a loop that feeds itself. And so, but what we're what we're now talking about is that maybe your five to eight rep max, in a hack squat is actually more important to quad development than your one rep max low bar squat is. Yeah, does that make sense? So it's the focus

Philip Pape  1:21:28

on these new lists. And we're missing.

Andy Baker  1:21:31

It's Yeah, so there's still the progressive overload is still there. It's just, it's in a different manner. Like if you start on day one of it, you do eight reps on the hack squat with two plates on each side, like that still has to go up, like you still need to be able to progress to eight reps with three plates and eight reps with four plates or, you know, like, you're still have to focus on progressive overload and trying to add weight to these movements as often as possible. But that is different than saying, I need to work on my one rep max, on squat bench and deadlift, because there's an element to one rep. Maxine, that's purely neurological right, does it factor into bodybuilding, just like 20 rep sets. On squats, there's a cardiovascular or component and a muscular endurance component to getting good at 20 rep sets, that has very little to do with muscle growth. So that you you don't need to worry about that. So that's why I like that middle range is the bodybuilding rep range. Like you talked to most bodybuilding coaches, the guys that I respect the Dante true Dells and Matt Janssen, Justin Harris's, all these guys that coach bodybuilders. So I'll tell you the same thing. Like if you had to sum up bodybuilding, it's progressive overload on those middle rep ranges, that five, five to eight, five to 12. Some of its exercise dependent, like certain mood, like you're not going to do five reps on lateral raises, but like, it's your let's just say, five to 15. You know, again, that depends somewhat on, but it's really about building strength in that rep range. Because you get below the five rep range you get into, especially with singles and things like that there's a neurological component there that is enhanced with methodologies that don't really have that much to do with building muscle. Right?

Philip Pape  1:23:24

If that makes sense. It makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Right. Like you don't

Andy Baker  1:23:27

need to have like, you don't need to enhance muscle mass, you don't need to have light and medium squat days. Right? Like that's a strength product that those light and medium days are there to enhance neurological efficiency, but aren't going to do that for the singles. Yeah, yeah, they're not, they're not going to do all that much in terms of building muscle mass. So the the way that you're going to train for more muscle mass is that progressive overload in those medium rep ranges pushing to failure and then exercise selection just divorcing yourself from the idea that you that you have to low bar squat bench press, and deadlift and that even if you are you may be performing those movements in a way that actually is like, like bench pressing, you're going to be able to benchpress more weight in a powerlifting style bench laying arch, wider grip, lower touch point, you're probably gonna bench more like that, but you're gonna have less stimulus on the pecs. You know, it's, it's progressive overload but done in a certain manner.

Philip Pape  1:24:25

And there's still plenty of big lifts on this program. I mean, compound lifts every day regardless, and

Andy Baker  1:24:30

I put them in there because partly I put them in there because one of the equipment selection for the mean, most guys are not not necessarily trading in Gold's Gym Venice, so they don't have a pendulum squat and Sunday guys do. But I'm trying to set the program up that is in line with most people's equipment situations. I mean, most people that are doing this program and I say, like don't do this, if all you have is a as a barbell and a rack, you're gonna struggle with this program. It's hard to shoehorn all that stuff in like you You need but most of the guys that are doing this program have a pretty well equipped home gym, or are training in a commercial facility where they have access to machines and cables. And things like that. Because it does, it does make it easier because the systemic stress is lower with machine type stuff, but the local stimulus can be higher. And so you need to have access to some of these tools that allow you to really, really highly stress the individual muscle groups but don't create the same level of systemic fatigue. An interesting observation I talked about this with Dave Tate, actually, a couple days ago when I was at Elite FTS, was that when you saw during the pandemic, when everybody was kind of all at once all these body builders were forced out of their commercial gyms and like, into their home gym, like maybe they had something set up in their garage like just their old barbell and rack that they haven't used in 20 years. Like they were kind of forced into using, like a more basic setup. And they tried to recreate their training program with just barbells. Like a lot of them got injured, or overtrained like, like even Matt Janssen, who's like the top bodybuilding coach in the world, like towards PEC, you know, and I think part of that is they're trying to recreate these, these, these bodybuilding type splits using nothing but a bar with a barbell, and it's not the same thing. Like it's, it's more highly stressful to try to do everything with a barbell, and it's going to be difficult to do, you know, six days a week with all the different exercises and everything trying to recreate it on a barbell. So you need some of these movements in order to do that. And I think so, part of it is if you want to do talking about mistakes guys make is if is if you really want to get into bodybuilding, or you know, maximal physique development, whatever you want to call it, you're gonna have to invest in the appropriate equipment, like you can't just like so either, you're gonna have to get a gym membership, or you're going to have to spend some money on developing a really good home gym, or whatever. But you can't just say, Well, all I have is a bar, how can I do this program like, that doesn't work. And then the other thing you're gonna have to do is divorce yourself from the idea that one rep, Maxine, and squat bench and deadlift is still the primary goal of the program. Because it's not like there may be there's going to be like you've seen it, like, there's going to be periods like I do the six week blocks, where we don't squat bench or deadlift, in any on any of the days like that, usually, we'll put them in there partly because I know guys want to do it. And if I go, if I go too long without letting a bench or squat or deadlift, like they're gonna wind up, go into something else. But part of that is I'm trying to show guys that yes, you can actually build muscle, and maybe even build muscle better. Getting away from these lifts. Like I'm still a fan of, like, I make a lot of arguments that I make about not squatting, benching, and dead lifting. Some of that is Devil's Advocate, stuff, as I'm trying to get people to think about why you might not do that. Like, I still think those are good movements, like I still think deadlifts are probably need to be in the program, at least part of the year. You know, for maximal development of the back, like it's just too good of a, like the loading and everything that you get from deadlifting is hard to replicate with other things. But it's getting guys to think about why we might not deadlift because I think once you kind of understand that you're going to have, you're going to understand the program that you're doing better. And that's better. Yeah,

Philip Pape  1:28:24

I like the variety. It's funny, it took me about three years of telling my wife what to get me for Christmas to get my home gym to where I could easily do a body but because you know, you need some sort of leg develop or some sort of hack, Squat leg press something or other, all the extra bars, you know, the dumbbells and it's quite a bit, you know, but but, uh, yeah, so the last, the last thing I want to talk about, because you alluded to it is the progression. And I'm kind of going to switch two or three topics in one here, but you've got your six week progression with the pretty much the same movements on, you know, you got the six days, and then those movements are repeated over six weeks, maybe a little bit of shift in rep range, but you're progressing them, then you have the week D load and then you go into a new cycle with new movements. Just talk about that a little bit in terms of autoregulation and also why it works well on a cut because this is like usually say this is your number one program recommended on a cut? Well,

Andy Baker  1:29:12

it is auto regulated in that, you know, one of the things I think you can make a mistake on a cut is that you alluded to it earlier in the podcast, which was that, you know, the studies have shown that like the higher IR or higher RPE training, lower volume is actually better at preserving muscle mass than doing like a bunch of like low weight volume or whatever. And I think you know, during the cut that one of the big mistakes that you can make is trying to do a bunch of volume you don't have you don't have the energy reserves to do that for one. So doing a ton of volume. You know if you're if your calories are low, your carbohydrates are lower. Like you have to make the most out of what you have like, like neither one of us believe in like no carb diets but But But typically, in a caloric deficit, your carbs are still going just because you have to cut calories, the cart, and you have to keep the protein up, right. So that doesn't, it doesn't leave a huge budget for a lot of carbohydrates. So you're going to have a limited supply of carbohydrates. And you need to utilize the gas in the tank that you have, right. And you don't want to burn that up. That's why I don't like, like hit protocols, necessarily, because I think it burns up too much glycogen. And the same thing happens with with like really high volume training, you're burning up too much energy without actually doing the real stimulative work on the muscle mass. So I think there's that one, it's just a question of energy resources and trying to be efficient with that. But then also, one of the mistakes that guys make during a cut is you, it's very difficult to preserve maximal strength on a cut. And that's not really the goal, you're trying to preserve muscle mass, not top in strength, top end strength is I mean, even there's, you could probably speak to this better than me. But being topped off on carbohydrates has an effect on the nervous system, like you're going to, you're going to have better nervous system activity in the presence of more carbohydrates, like your nervous system is not going to operate as well in a caloric deficit. So trying to focus too much on preserving maximal squat bench and deadlift, strength, let's say for one rep maxes is kind of a fool's errand. One, it's very hard to do. So you're going to wind up getting overly fatigued, overly frustrated, and worse, potentially opening yourself up to injury. You know, especially if you're late stages in a diet where like in bodybuilding, where you're really low in carbohydrates, because you're trying to pull water out and that sort of thing, you like you're more susceptible to injury, like that tissue is not as pliable. And so you don't. And that's typically where the injuries come from is maximal loading, especially on things like a squat or something like that. So you want to be careful about trying to get too wrapped up in a diet about preserving top end, like top end strengths. Because it's one, it's just not possible and the risk is high. So you want to say, I want to preserve the maximum amount of muscle mass that I have. And that's easier to do with a program like this, because it doesn't take as much to preserve muscle mass, like if you're working the muscle, hard, even at a low volume, you're not going to lose muscle mass like you're going to you may not gain a lot. And you certainly aren't, may not gain as much top end strength. And you may even lose a little bit of strength, but you want to you want to fight to to keep as much strength as possible. But on in those medium to higher rep ranges. You know what I'm saying? And so this a program like this tends to allow you to push as hard as you can at any given workout, but kind of allow whatever happens to happen in terms of I don't know if that makes sense. So, yeah, yeah, no, no, it does. And it's just working within a range. Like I may just say, I want you to perform one all outset in the four to eight rep range on a pitch. Like that's like as long as you if you do that, regardless of what the load is, but you take as much load as you can, and push hard in that four to eight rep range. And then you take a little off the bar, and you want additional set as hard as you can right up to failure in the eight to 12 rep range, you're not going to lose muscle mass with that type of approach, it may not gain that much strength, but you're not going to lose. And that's when you're dieting, the idea is to trim as much fat off as possible, but preserve as much muscle as possible. And so a protocol like this helps with that. Also, there's some some evidence, I think both in the literature as well as just anecdotal. And this, this is really into whether you're dieting or bulking or maintaining or whatever, the harder you're pushing on your exercises. So the more the more you're pushing your sets to failure, and that sort of thing, the quicker you're going to plateau on those movements, like you're, you're going to hit a wall faster on those. And so there's a need to rotate out to different movements. Whereas if you're training more powerlifting style, and you're doing much more of your your work sub maximally like you can because a lot of like my powerlifting programs, and it seems counterintuitive, but a lot of the work is submaximal work, more sets and that sort of thing so maximally and you can actually sustain that's that's actually the only way if you want to train squat bench and deadlift year round, like most of your work is going to actually wind up being submaximal that's the only way to sustain it. But if you're pushing your your exercise, if you're pushing to failure on these movements or right up to failure, you'll actually find that you hit plateaus and burn out those movement patterns faster. And so that you need to rotate out to new exercises. Body builders have been doing that for decades. Some guys will do it physically. So they'll do it in phases they'll do they're going to You know, start their chest day with an incline press and they're going to do that as long as possible until it kind of burns out, they're not making any more progress and then they'll switch over to a flat bench or to incline with dumbbells or something like that. Or, you know, what is more common in bodybuilding programs traditionally, is guys switch out all the time. And sometimes it's just completely auto regulated. So this week I went, I started within client the next week, I started with bench the next week, I started with dumbbell inclines, or whatever. And that looks if you're familiar with like the conjugate method, that's, that's the same exact principle, like most like the most bodybuilding programs are the is the conjugate method. I talked with Dave Tate about this last week, it's going to be on the podcast, but they don't call it that in bodybuilding. But it's the same principle. And when you do the conjugate method, you're what we're, this is a powerlifting program. But what we asked you to do is say every week, you're going to max out for a one rep max on a benchpress variation. Okay, now, why do we use variation? Why don't we say every Monday, we're just going to max out on the benchpress. Because if you max out on the bench press every week, you're going to regress, like you cannot do the same movement pattern. Yeah, you can't do the same movement pattern every single week for a max. But if you slightly alter it, and one week is bench the next week is close grip, the next week is incline the next week is pin presses, you actually can max out every single week, just by that slight alteration in exercise selection. And the same thing happens in a bodybuilding program, because you're pushing, you're not pushing to one rep max, but you are pushing to failure, you can't stay with those movements that long before they need to be rotated out for something else. And so it's because there's similar things that happen, say in a one rep max versus a five rep max or an eight rep max, and that it's very demanding. And you basically burn that movement out. So there has whether it's six weeks, or every other week, or however you're going to do it, there has to be some mechanism in there to rotate the exercises out. Because if you do the same exercises, to failure, or for one rep maxes, or whatever, every week, you're going to wind up actually going backwards. So that's even more true. Again, the more advanced that you are, the more this is going to be true. And so for like a brand new guy that's doing this program, if after six weeks, he still feels like he's progressing on the six week block that he's in, I would actually tell it Yeah, you could actually keep going with that six week block, and then just extended out to eight weeks or 12 weeks or whatever, until you start to see diminishing returns and then switch. So you don't necessarily have to switch every six weeks. I encourage people to push hard enough and load aggressively enough so that in six weeks, you're ready to switch movements. Yeah, yeah, where you've probably reset once during that time, maybe it's really hard when you start at the top of the rep range move down maybe have to set well that's that would be ideal. Like it's like in the program, it might say, okay, you know, first set on Quad Day as a safety squat bar for four to eight rep, you know, one set one all out set of four to eight, like it I don't always say but it is implied that all of those sets are basically max effort, not nuts, like on squats, I'm not necessarily saying you have to fail, like you have to wind up like on the floor, like failure. But basically, you're going to push those sets as hard as you can so that at the beginning of the six weeks, let's say you start off at eight reps at 315. You know, by the end of the six weeks, you want to be down, you've you've wanted to load aggressively enough so that you're safe, barely getting four, you know, so and then you can either reset the way or switch to a different exercise. And that's the thing with hypertrophy is that there's a much much wider range of movements that are available to you like as long as you're pushing maximally whether you're doing a safety squat bar, or a cambered bar or a hack squat or a leg press like exercise selection is as long as they're all kind of check all the boxes, there's there's nothing that you have to do. And lots of movements can be equally effective. And that's one of the big differences between bodybuilding and powerlifting is in powerlifting, you have to squat bench and deadlift.

Ep 130: The Hardgainers Guide to Outsmarting Your Metabolism and Maximizing Muscle Gain

Are you trying to gain muscle but still struggling despite being (or thinking you're in) in a calorie surplus?

Today we are tackling the hardgainer's dilemma: How do you eat enough to build enough muscle without putting on too much fat when you have an overactive metabolism, whacked-out hunger cues, and potentially years of trying to build without success?

Hardgainers can indeed create the conditions for muscle growth and overcome their genetic limitations. They can make impressive gains that they never thought possible.

Episode summary:

We delve deep into the challenges hardgainers face when trying to pack on muscles. Often, hardgainers feel like they're fighting a losing battle with weight gain, but with the right strategies, they can overcome these hurdles and achieve their desired physique.

One of the key factors that impact a hardgainer's journey is the misconceptions and myths surrounding weight gain. A scientific understanding of weight gain can go a long way in helping hard gainers overcome their unique muscle-building dilemmas. It's important to understand that the body's response to calorie intake and expenditure can vary widely from person to person. This is why some people may gain different amounts of fat for the same increase in calories, which can make muscle-building a challenge for hard gainers.

Another critical aspect we discussed is the power of a positive mindset. Building muscles is not just about physical effort but also about mental resilience. Having a growth mindset, setting realistic goals, and staying motivated are key factors in turning small wins into massive gains. We emphasized the importance of celebrating every little stride made towards fitness goals and reframing the thought process to focus on progress.

A large part of the discussion was also dedicated to nutrition. Achieving a calorie surplus through strategic meal planning is vital for muscle growth. We addressed the fear many hard gainers have about gaining fat and emphasized the role of macronutrients in stimulating muscle growth. Eating more calories than you burn, getting those calories from nutrient-dense foods, and fueling your workouts with enough carbs and protein are all essential strategies for muscle gain.

We also touched on the role of training in muscle building. Hardgainers need to follow a challenging training program that includes heavy compound lifts, progressive overload, and adequate recovery. We discussed the importance of supplementing with protein and carbs and encouraged listeners not to be afraid of incorporating their favorite foods into their diet.

Hardgainers can indeed overcome their genetic limitations and build muscles successfully. It might require a little extra effort and planning, but with a positive mindset, strategic nutrition, and a challenging training program, muscle-building is entirely achievable.

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Today you’ll learn all about:

(2:04) What is a hardgainer?
(5:21) Strategic nutrition and training plan for muscle gain
(6:54) Metabolic adaptation
(9:25) Mental obstacles
(12:19) Four practical positive mindset shifts
(18:48) Consuming more calories than you burn
(20:16) Strategies to stay in the surplus
(30:08) Training for hardgainers
(36:47) Outro

Episode resources:

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Transcript

Philip Pape  00:00

hard gainers may struggle to put on muscle, but they can still achieve their goals with the right approach. Whether you have a fast over responsive metabolism feel like you can never eat enough or are worried all that gain is going to fat. You'll learn how to finally maximize your muscle gain in this episode. Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in. Wits & Weights community Welcome to another solo episode of the Wits & Weights podcast in our last episode 129 Why passively consuming my podcast is getting you nowhere. With Carl Berryman, we discussed how to implement the content you're consuming to integrate it into your life rather than being a bystander and constantly binging podcast without taking action. Carl walked us through his simple but effective mental muscle up mmm you today for episode 130. The hard gainers guide to outsmarting your metabolism and maximizing muscle gain. We are tackling the hard gainers dilemma. How do you eat enough to build enough muscle without putting on too much fat when you have an overactive metabolism, whacked out hunger cues, and potentially years of trying to build without success. hard gainers can indeed create the conditions for muscle growth and overcome their genetic limitations. I work with hard gainers all the time, and we are doing this every day. And you can as well, they can make impressive gains that they never thought possible. And that is what we're diving into. On today's topic, the hard gainers guide to outsmarting your metabolism and maximizing muscle gain. What is a hard gainer? A hard gainer is simply someone who has difficulty or believes that they have difficulty building muscle and struggling to gain weight, despite their efforts to eat more or again, believing that they're eating more. So there's a lot of mindset and psychology here. And so we have a mix of science and reality, a mix of genetics, along with some science and mindset. And we're going to cover both today. And you can kind of identify which one you fall into, it might be a mix of both, as a self described, quote unquote HARDGAINER, you are likely to relate to a certain set of beliefs. So one of those beliefs is that no matter how much you eat, you don't put on weight. And you'll notice some of these are the opposite of people who struggle the other direction and say no matter how much I diet, I don't lose weight. So hardgainers have the opposite approach, which can be just as annoying for folks. So that's one belief. The second belief is that you've quote unquote, tried everything. But you can't gain lean mass, oh, I've tried all the programs I've lifted heavy, I've lifted high reps, I've done different volume, I've done all the diets that it added up, and you can't gain lean mass. The third belief is that you have a fast metabolism. And it's so fast that you just it's impossible to gain muscle. And then the fourth belief is that bulking just makes you bloated, whether it's just bulking in general or eating a certain amount of carbs or whatever. But it doesn't actually make you bigger just makes you bloated, right? Just just big fat bloated, whatever. Now, the only study that I wanted to mention today because the science is kind of sparse in this area. Eric Trexler actually wrote a great article about hardgainers A while back, and he references the article I'm going to mention here as well by who at all in 2022. So it was just a year or two ago. And in that study, which was titled higher than predicted resting energy expenditure and lower physical activity and healthy underweight Chinese adults. They found that different people can gain different amounts of fat for the same increase in calories. And that this was directly linked to how their energy expenditure increased in response to overfeeding, I think to simplify it, this study and several other others, what they basically show is that yes, some people will when they eat more when they overfeed, right? So they eat beyond their maintenance calories, and their metabolism will start to catch up. Not all the way not a one for one relationship. But their metabolism will increase at a much greater rate than someone else. Right. If you think of the population. If you think of a normal curve, a bell curve, we're all going to find we're all going to fall in different areas. Everybody's metabolism is a little bit different due to genetics and other factors. And some people when they add 500 calories a day to their diet, their metabolism ramps up by 250 calories, and now they're really only in a two 150 calorie surplus. And then they wonder why they can't gain, you know, the half pound or pound or the pound a week that they're going for. And they're only gaining half a pound or not or less. That could be why. So there is a genetic component. But as with all of this stuff, whether it's fat loss, building muscle, whatever, you can't change your genetics, all you can change is how do you express those genetics and what you do about it, given your genetics. So the truth here that we just have to acknowledge right off the bat before we go to the rest of the episode is, if you have a strategic plan, strategic meaning you've thought about it, a nutrition and training plan that is tailored to you, building muscle is 100% achievable. Even if you are a genetic, hard gainer. And many of you listening to this episode are not even genetic hardgainers you just haven't taken the right steps and put it all together, or some sort of fear or limiting belief is holding you back from making those steps. So it may require a little extra effort, a little extra planning a little extra know how, definitely something that we help you with on this podcast. And today I'm going to address specifically. Now once you understand why you struggle to gain weight, and then how to fuel and do those other things appropriately for that, why then packing on lean muscle again, is 100% within your reach, just like when someone says I can't lose weight, or I can't lose fat. absolutely not true. Everyone can it is within your reach. You just have to know how might be harder for you than for others, but it's definitely possible. And even if it is harder, it's not going to be monumentally so. Okay, so I'm gonna iterate reiterate that the the reality here is with a strategic plan that's tailored to you HARDGAINER or not, you can build muscle successfully. And you just have to know what to do. All right. Well, some of the things that we have seen confirmed for what would be a typical hard gainer is, first what I just mentioned that you may have a rapid ramp up of your metabolism in response to calorie intake. So either when your activity goes up, your metabolism adapts quickly. And so either that or when you eat more, your metabolism adapts quickly, right. And your neat might go up quickly, whatever. Regardless, what it means is you're burning, you're eating a bunch of food, you're eating a bunch more food feel like you're stuffing yourself every day. And your body's like whoa, I've got this great food environment, I'm just gonna go burn all these extra calories, because you're giving me a feast every day. And like, really, I wanted to gain weight on purpose. And now my body is fighting me. Okay, so that's one thing. The second thing is that a hard gainer may just be and this might be you may just be someone who is moving a ton outside the gym. And this might be because you just love all sorts of sports and cardio and obstacle course races and all that kind of stuff, CrossFit, whatever, or you have a physically demanding job. I mean, if you're a construction worker, if you do something with your hands where you are burning, like you know 2000 extra calories a day just from moving around. That's very possible, right that you just have a high NEET right non exercise Activity Thermogenesis and are going to have to offset that with with your food, or with some conscious reduction in activity elsewhere, it is kind of the opposite of when we're in fat loss when we're trying to ramp it up, you may have to try to find ways to ramp it down. And then the only other thing that I've identified in the research is the potential for fast gastric emptying, that food moves rapidly from your stomach to your intestines, and so you have less time to absorb all the nutrients. And so you're actually more food more you know, foods coming out than for someone else. But I don't know if that I don't know how big of an impact that can be. Because we know that the vast majority of our energy is lost through our breath through our co2, you know, very little is lost through things like urine and feces and whatnot, you know, hopefully you're not eating when you listen to this. But anyway, those are those are three factors that could make it challenging for someone who is trying to gain muscle by by just eating more and gaining gaining weight, right because these things are out. You can't out eat these things. I mean, you can but you feel like you can't. So let's start with the mindset right? Let's just start with the mindset because a lot of you this is really where it's at. Okay, tell me if one of these or not, you know in your head, tell me through the ether, or do tell me by sending me an email or something a note on IG whether any of these hit home with you the first one are you a perfectionist, and someone who gets frustrated by slow progress you have these perfectionist tendencies you try to plan everything out. I mean, I've got this some in mind as well.

Philip Pape  09:53

I did a quick wits recently about procrastination and one of the types of unmet needs is your perfect Accidents and you wait for everything to be perfect. And if it's not just changing now now now you get frustrated. And this, this may come in the form of, hey, I want to build muscle, so I'm bigger. And then when I lean out, I'm like more jacked. But I also don't want to lose my six pack as I'm building muscle because now I'm building fat. And, and just after a few weeks, my six pack starts to get soft, and then it goes away. And now I'm frustrated because my end goal is to be this lean, jacked person, right. So it could come from that you may just be demotivated because you've tried to gain weight many times in the past and failed. And you're like, okay, it just doesn't work, right? Same thing as the opposite where people, they've tried to lose weight many times and they fail. The the third mental obstacle is just a lack of knowledge, you may not know how to customize your nutrition or your muscle building strategies like your training for you specifically, you might be a high volume type responder, maybe you're younger, a younger male, or maybe you just need that extra volume, or you're female. Sometimes females need more volume than men. And I know this episode is going to sound like I'm talking almost exclusively to men, because they're usually the ones that have this problem. But there could be some women that want to build muscle and are struggling as well. Especially very athletic, maybe very active. So you just may not know what to do. Right, you may be training a certain lift not frequently enough, and not getting the stimulus you need. So even if you're eating, you're not really building much muscle, and so then you gain fat and you're like, Okay, this doesn't really work. So maybe your problem is not that you can't gain weight, but you feel like you're gaining mostly fat. And then the last thing is, I just alluded to it, the fear of gaining too much fat and losing the lean physique, or the visible six pack or whatever it is this muscle definition you've had, knowing deep down inside, that it is in your best interest to spend that time building muscle along with a little fat, knowing that that's the only way to add that tissue to your frame. And so it's a temporary state you're going to be in where you're not going to look like you do it your leanness, but eventually you'll look even leaner and more jacked and ripped, which is probably your goal, right? Or most people's goals to improve their physique, in addition to the other things like strength and function. So as far as cultivating a more positive mindset, because at the end of the day, if we can think positively, and reframe the situation, it's going to go a long way toward then taking the practical steps. So I'm going to give you four things to try. Number one, is having a growth mentality, growth mindset growth mentality focused on the long term gains. If we focus too much on the end result, we're just gonna get frustrated. But if we focus on the things day to day that get us closer and closer to that result, such as getting in your workout, hitting your PRs, or your your maxes or lifts, or whatever it is, you know, your sets and reps pushing the weight up, pushing the reps, whatever the volume is to progressively overload because again, we're talking about being in a gaining phase where you should be able to make continual progress, that focus on the process, that growth mentality will give you lots and lots of wins along the way to know that this is worthwhile. And at the end of the day, you might find that that is really where the fun is, I've discovered now, even even if I sit sit around for three or six months, with a little bit of a soft belly, that I don't mind, in the least I am proud to wear that little bit of fat on my belly, because I am my lifts are going up, I'm going to the gym feeling energized and strong and being able to lift and you know, I still have some muscle popping out through the arms and the shoulders and everything. But I know there's some fat covering whatever else is in there, but I'm really loving that process. So if you can do that, it's gonna go a long way. And then it serves the other choices you make, like the fuel, right, what you eat, and having carbs and things like that. So that's one, adopting a growth mentality. Number two, is celebrating the small wins. So I alluded to that already, but every day you're gonna have wins like PRs, you're gonna have strength increases, you're gonna have increases on your circumference measurements. Even when you gain body mass that can be a win. Now, we talked about in fat loss, not focusing on the scale, but scale scale is one of many metrics. And if you see it slowly trending upward over time, that itself can also be celebrated. Of course, the third thing for a more positive mindset is to go ahead and set mini goals. So this is again, we're tying or integrating these ideas, but instead of just having that six or nine month or 12 month goal to gain a certain amount of weight, because that's how long it's going to take much longer than fat loss. Okay, set many goals to stay motivated through that time. And for me, the mini goals are going to be every strength training session I have, I have numbers that I want to hit. And so I do everything in my power to make sure I'm free Pair to hit those numbers, I don't think, Okay, I hope those hit those numbers. No, I say, all right, did I get enough sleep? Am I eating enough? Am I fueling enough carbs and my heart hydrated, I'm getting enough sleep, am I you know, is my workout plan appropriately for the volume, and on and on. Like all those things, I'm setting myself up to achieve that mini goal that's going to happen tomorrow. And then the next day, and then the next day. And the days that you don't go to the gym, you may have other goals related to your food, or related to recovery or self care. So many goals are a huge tool in the toolbox for anyone, but especially in this case, what we're talking about with hard gainers, because it's a long process to build muscle. The fourth mindset strategy is to understand that results require what I'm calling aggressive consistency, over time, aggressive consistency over time. And it sounds kind of like a catch 20 tour Contra, what am I trying to say contradiction a little bit. By consistency. I mean, you know, you show up every day, and you get about 80 or 90% of the things done you intend to do every single day, you're gonna achieve massive results that way, because most people either don't show up, or they show up very sporadically, or they show up and they try to be perfect for a day. And then they don't show up at all for three days, you're going to be aggressively consistent. So that means if you go to the gym four days a week, you go to the gym four days a week, maybe they're not perfect sessions, but you went to the gym and you try it and you you didn't just give up and not do the lift, you try the lift, maybe you didn't get all the reps because you didn't sleep well the night before having a food the night before. So aggressive consistency over time is where it's at. And if whatever you're doing is not allowing you to be consistent. This is where we rewind, and we say why not? What is preventing the consistency? Are we trying to do too much? Do we need support countability coaching? Do we need to focus on just one thing at a time, whatever. Okay? So just like training a muscle requires some sort of stress to kind of break it down to tear it down. Not not not muscle, tear him so much. But just to kind of over stress it so that it can come back stronger the next time. Right. Training your mind in that way of progressive overload is important overcome these beliefs. So hopefully that was helpful. I do want to get into the nuts and bolts now because you know, that's often where a lot of what I talk about lies. But if you are struggling with the mindset stuff, definitely please reach out to me and say, Hey, here's this thing struck a chord with me. Let's talk more about it. Let's dig into details. Hey, this is Philip. And I hope you're enjoying this episode of Wits & Weights, I started Wits & Weights to help people who want to build muscle lose fat and actually look like they lift. I've noticed that when people improve their strength and physique, they not only look and feel better, they transform other areas of their life, their health, their mental resilience and their confidence in everything they do. And since you're listening to this podcast, I assume you want the same things the same success, whether you recently started lifting, or you've been at this for a while and want to optimize and reach a new level of success. Either way, my one on one coaching focused on engineering your physique and body composition is for you. If you want expert guidance and want to get results faster, easier, and with fewer frustrations along the way to actually look like you lift, go to wits & weights.com, and click on coaching, or use the link in my show notes to apply today. I'll ask you a few short questions to decide if we're a good fit. And if we are, we'll get you started this week. Now back to the show.

Philip Pape  18:46

All right, so hardgainers. Gaining Muscle Gaining weight requires a very simple thing, consuming more calories than you burn. But just like energy balance in the other direction, consuming fewer calories than you burn to lose weight is simply the outcome. We know that there are million things standing in the way of us doing that that we might need to figure out hardgainers must eat substantially more than expected. And if you're a true hard gainer, it's more than the the person next to you to gain the same weight. Because your metabolism is probably ramping up more quickly. Now, here's the reality. Do hardgainers exist? Yes. But it's very individual. And it also shifts. And what I mean by that is I've seen one single person be a hard gainer at one point in their life and not in another. I've been in that situation where my metabolism has just been skyrocketing. And I'm like, Whoa, I have to just eat way more calories and other muscle burning phases where that didn't happen. And so then the question is, does this just change with our lives and our situations? Is this more epigenetic than simply genetic? And at the end of the day, then maybe we shouldn't worry about all that stuff and just fall Guess on understanding our metabolism right now. And what surplus we want to be in and identify that number. And if that number is climbing quickly, we're going to have to ramp up the strategies that allow us to stay in that surplus. And we're going to talk about those. Okay, so the first strategy, you've got to be tracking, you've got to be tracking your food, and your expenditure. So here's where I'm a stickler for an app like macro factor. And I've had, I've had some arguments with people recently about other apps like chronometer, and my fitness pal. Look, My Fitness Pal is junk, in my opinion, because the database is unreliable. The features are terrible, it doesn't do anything for you. It's just a it's just a database to put numbers in. And you have to figure out what numbers to put in there. And what targets you want to go for. It's Chuck, so don't use my fitness pal. chronometer. Okay, I like chronometer I used to like chronometer, I mean, it's got some nice nutrition features and a decent database. It's a verified database, like macro factor, but it doesn't calculate your expenditure automatically. It calculates your expenditure, but it's not accurate. Do you know why, if you go look up the Help Page of how it works, all it does is it takes the one of the standard formulas that you can just plug in, and then it adds in your activity. That's one of the most inaccurate ways to do it. Because first of all, the formula is, can be off by several 100 calories, it doesn't know you and how your body responds. Secondly, using your activity from a device, we know is terribly unreliable, up to 80% inaccurate, and it's just all over the place. totally worthless. So it's junk. And so definitely go and use macro factor. Yes, I'm an affiliate proudly. So because I use it all my clients use it. And it's the only app that does what it does. And that is it auto adjusts your weekly, calorie and macro targets to your true expenditure. And it calculates that expenditure in a very elegant way, by looking at how your body adds or gains or loses weight over time, and looking how much you're eating every day. It needs two things, your weight and your food. That's it. And then it has a nice, elegant, probably slightly complicated algorithm in the background that says, Okay, this week, you're burning about this many calories a day. And it's pretty darn accurate. Pretty darn accurate, I would stake my coaching business on it, because I do I have my clients use it for that very reason. So track using macro factor use my code, Wits & Weights, all one word Wits, & Weights, when you download it for the first time to get an extra week in your free trial. And then yes, it is a paid app, it's something like 72 bucks a year. If if that is too much for you, then I'm sorry, your health is not worth it for you. That's just I'm sorry, that's just my take on that. Alright, so track your food and track your expenditure over time. And by doing so this, this honestly is probably the most important step of all the ones I'm going to tell you. By doing so you will know that your metabolism is ramping up like a rocket like you think it is as a hard gainer. It may not be you may you may discover it's not, you may discover that you're just simply massively under eating. And you're not even eating that much you maybe your metabolism maybe around I don't know, say 2800 calories, and you've just been eating 2400 thinking that you're eating a lot because maybe you eat a lot of protein, maybe eat a lot of Whole Foods and they're just filling for you. Right maybe you drink a lot, maybe move a lot you just are and you don't have good much hunger signals. That's the awareness that you get from it. So track your food and expenditure over time using macro factor that is number one. Number two, this is the food part. How do you just eat more food? Okay, very simple strategies. First, you need enough frequency throughout the day, I would aim for five to seven feedings instead of what I'm sure a lot of you hardgainers are doing right now you're probably only eating three or four times you eat four times thinking yeah, meaning four times three meals and a snack that's that's a whole bunch of times, split it up into like five to seven, you know, first thing you get up post workout mid morning, lunchtime, mid afternoon dinner, and then dessert or a pre bed snack, there you go, that's 678 times right there, you'll be able to eat more, okay, your stomach will never get fully empty and never get fully full. And you'll be in this kind of consistent state of just being able to continually feed yourself and you won't feel stuffed and you won't feel hungry either. So it's kind of in between. You also get a constant influx of nutrients, you're gonna feed your muscles with the protein, all that good stuff, muscle protein synthesis, making sure the protein is spread out throughout the day. You're not going to have these long fasting periods, which could be affecting some of what's happening to you, right, other than when you're asleep, you're fasting. I wouldn't train fasted either like I wouldn't make any drastic changes in your, your workout or nutrition relative to each other. I would just kind of have a nice continuous feeding throughout the day every day. I think this frequent higher calorie meal approach is one of the main reasons one of the main things that unlocks success for hardgainers Yeah, okay, so that's what that are. That's number two. Number three, having your carbs around your workout, I think this is great no matter who you are, right carbs, carbs replenish your muscle muscle glycogen after post exercise, I would, I would have your higher carb meals before and after your training, you'll probably find that you have more hunger for them, then your body needs them, your body wants them, and you'll just be able to fit in more food that way. Okay, if you have to use something like highly branched cyclic dextran, it's a simple digestible powder form of carbs, use it, use it, put in a scoop and get 100 grams of carbs that way, you know, that's easy. If you need four grams of carbs, that's a quarter your carbs right there, and you hardly will feel it in the stomach. Number four, I want you to optimize your protein distribution. And this should be super easy. If you're eating five, six or seven times a day. I'm just gonna leave it at that do both and you'll be fine. Number five is the calorie density now is the opposite of what you do in fat loss. Now you want higher calorie dense foods. But, but still nutritious Whole Foods for the most part, for the most part, okay? You can still or not can I still want you to have 10 20% of your diet reserved for things that you just want to eat. I don't care if it's ice cream, pizza, doughnuts, the things that you love. This is great when you're trying to gain and you need more calories. Actually, those become even easier, like a donut is just a fairly fat dense piece of carbs, right that has the fats and the carbs in there, hardly fills you up and give you a lot of calories, which is a good thing in this case. But but let's let's take a step back to what I was starting with here and that is eating foods that are higher in calorie density, which usually are things with more fat, so eating salmon instead of whitefish eating ribeye instead of sirloin eating whole eggs don't even think about a whites you don't need them. eating cheese. I mean, have you been avoiding cheese, now's the time to enjoy cheese, nuts. Oh my goodness, handfuls of nuts will go a long way toward giving you calories nuts and nut butters. For example. Have your starchy carbs. Now I know some carbs like potatoes actually are kind of filling. But you still need the carbs. So it's good to have Whole Foods sources of carbs like rice potatoes. This is where you bring in the beans and lentils you know Beans are high are fairly calorie dense actually do get the carbs and some protein. You can add oils, nut oils, coconut oil, olive oil, avocado oil, like dump them in stuff, have your salad and just go crazy with the oil this time make sure to track it of course, right make some homemade blue cheese dressing. If you got oil and cheese together, you can see I'm just like working up an appetite myself because I'm in a gaining phase right now. So great time to do this podcast. Number six, if you still need more calories, supplements, okay, not not just protein shakes. I don't even think I mentioned it. But obviously, liquid forms of stuff is going to be easier than solid to fit it in your stomach like liquid protein shakes the liquid carbs that I already mentioned, or even making smoothies and taking fibers things and mashing them down into the where they're effectively pre digested. But I'm talking about like, I don't know, meal replacement shakes like first form has a meal replacement protein shake that has the carbs in there as well already, so they're more convenient. They're things like weight gainers, I'm not a big fan of all these, like, you know, kind of overly marketed stuff used to get a GNC type type thing. But like the higher quality meal replacement shakes or meal replacement bars, there's actually a bar made it here in Connecticut called the muscle up bar that is made from sweet potato and it's it's like 260 calories in a really densely packed bar with very simple ingredients. It's got whey protein isolate, it's got sweet potato,

Philip Pape  28:44

maybe dates, maybe some nuts, maybe some monk fruit or stevia or something and sweetened and stuff like that, right, maybe some chocolate, maybe peanut butter, and so on. And if you're getting hungry, listening to this and your hard gainer, take advantage of it, walk to the kitchen and make some of this stuff right now, right now and eat it, enjoy it, track it. Number seven. Okay, so when you have days of the week, this is another big challenge I see you will have days a week when you're not training, maybe you don't walk as much. Maybe you're sitting around the couch all day because it's a weekend you're watching football, or it's the holidays. This is where you have to watch out because you can do kind of the opposite of what some people in a fat loss phase worry about. They worry about overeating on some of these days, you might actually be under eating. Because you don't have that routine, you don't have the training sessions kind of pushing you the days that I don't train, I have to intentionally get that extra feeding in because I'm not training where I would have the before and after. So now it's just one feeding when I had to fit in another one not have to but I choose to fit in another one to get the same calories for the day. I'm not a big fan of cycling calories, especially when you're in a surplus because you've just got all these calories coming in anyway. There's no need to go like really high on Sundays and lower on others. So the goal here or the moral the story here is meal planning like to plan ahead and make sure you know how you're tackling the training days versus the non training days to make sure that calorie surplus is nice and high. So I'm going to mention one last thing. I know some of you are worried about gaining too much fat. But muscle gain requires being in a surplus. And the main variable that's gonna cause you to build muscle with that surplus is your training is your training. So there's the mindset side of it, of course, we have, we have to celebrate the wins, do all the short term, focus on the process and so on that we talked about focus on non scale metrics, like your circumference measurements, and maybe getting some new shirts that like where you fill them out, because you have these nice big traps and big arms. Now nice, big broad back, even though you have a little bit of a belly, you're going to look big and strong out in public, you know, if you're not walking around with your shirt off all the time. Okay, so great time of yours is winter to do this. But training is the most effective part of this whole thing to actually build the muscle and not just gain fat, and offset the fear of gaining too much fat even though I'm sorry to say you're gonna gain some fat. And it depends on the rate again, you go at and I did an episode not long ago, called like, oh man was it called it was like the best way to gain for building muscle or something. Just to summarize, point, two 2.3% of your body weight per week is a decent rate of gain. Okay, so that's a super good rule of thumb. For most people, even a hard gainer, it's just a hard gainer might find it harder to get to that surplus because of these other factors we talked about and are going to have to just eat more food. And if you track it with macro factor, it's going to tell you to eat more food. Okay, so how should you be training, just like anybody else should be training, heavy compound lifts, progressive overload principles, like adding weight, or reps or set or some other form of volume, having enough recovery, right, having enough frequency using intensity techniques as needed, right. Supplementing with with, you know, protein and taking creatine, you know, whatever other supplements you need, getting enough carbs, getting enough protein around your workouts, all of that. That's it. Like that was the entire section on lifting for today that I wanted to cover, because I've done plenty of other episodes, specifically about training. And today was more about the distinct challenges that hard gainers face, which is trying to eat enough food and having and struggling to do so. And by the way, I have clients who go through this all the time. And I can I see them struggle for a few weeks, but because they're getting feedback from me where I say, look, we've got the data you're tracking with macro factor, you're just not eating enough. Here's why. And then it gives them ideas. Okay, what do you like, oh, you love peanut butter? Well, we'll go crazy on the peanut butter. Oh, really? I can do that. Yeah, absolutely. You like this particular process food because it's just delicious. And you've been avoiding it, or cutting it out because of some low carb diet, Iran, put it back in, it's fine, put it back in if it represents 10 or 20% of your calories. Go for it. All right, you have my permission, and you have your own permission to do that. Alright, so and then there's the lifestyle component, which again, really applies to everyone to make sure that you're optimizing your recovery and your growth, and that is the seven to nine hours of sleep, right? You've got to get those muscles to, you know, to have the right environment to get built and repaired. And to have optimal hormones. You want to keep that stress low, keep the cortisol low, the anxiety low because all of those, believe it or not, could come into play with you, not having regulated hunger signals and thus feeling like you're to fall. More often than not, it's the other things we've already talked about. But sometimes it is, you know, you're just too stressed. And we talk about stress going the other direction and like making you overeat but but when you're trying to eat a lot of food, having too much stress could maybe suppress your appetite as well. So, adequate sleep, you know, adequate stress management, sufficient hydration and electrolytes. Yes, even though we don't want to, you know, be so full on water that we're hungry. We do want to have enough hydration. So it's it's quite a balanced. Alright, I think I covered what I wanted to cover. What we've learned today, basically, is that true hard gainers definitely have challenges because of things like an overall response and metabolism. misfiring hunger cues, potentially years of being discouraged by slow gains. But if you have the right fuel, you train smart. You have a constructive growth oriented day by day celebrating the daily win mindset and you support things like recovery. Even if you are a true hard gainer, you can just as easily just as easily make progress as anyone else. You may want to do some things more precisely, and think ahead and have a plan and maybe have some accountability or a coach. You want to monitor your energy intake and expenditure. You're going to obviously eat more calories than you burn and the only way to know that is know how many calories you're burning. You want to get those calories from dense foods but still mostly whole nutritious foods. But now it opens up the palate to things like nuts, beans, all the other stuff. We talked about oil. You want to fuel your workouts with enough carbs and protein don't Train fasted, you know, don't do long fasting periods, eat healthy fats, follow a challenging training program that has progressive overload, and rest and recover and keep the stress low. This is the way to gains all of my HARDGAINER friends out there. And here's the thing, if you want to explore what this entire process might look like specifically for you, because as I've alluded to this entire podcast, it's got to be tailored to your needs. If you want to do that, I will go over the strategy that I use with all my HARDGAINER clients, but personalized for your situation. So I have a call called a free results breakthrough session call. It's just a 30 minute zoom call. I don't sell I don't pitch. It's just a conversation between two people who are looking to solve what seems like a pesky problem, but absolutely has a solution. We'll make it happen. Just use the link in my show notes. Schedule a free call. Again, it's called the results breakthrough session. You should see it in my show notes. I always leave a few spots open on my calendar each week. So let's do it. Alright, so our next episode 131 Andy Baker, on bodybuilding for hypertrophy, and an aesthetic muscular physique, Andy the man, he's my coach, he's one of the best programmers out there, and strength conditioning coaches, he is back to talk about bodybuilding style programming. Last time we talked more on the strength side today. In this episode, we're gonna get into bodybuilding. We'll get into techniques like the top set back offset approach, training up to six days a week, the contribution of hypertrophy to strength, the methods like the DC rest pause method, and lessons that Andy has learned from coaching people through these programs, including yours truly, who is one of his, you know, barbell club coaching clients. As always, stay strong. And I'll talk to you next time here on the Wits & Weights podcast. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights, please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong.

Ep 129: Why Passively Consuming My Podcast is Getting You Nowhere with Carl Berryman

Are you an avid podcast listener who binges on shows but struggles to integrate the information actively into your life?

In this episode, we have back on the show—for a record third time— Mr. Carl J. Berryman, the host of the Inspired by Impact podcast and one of my closest brothers from another mother.

Carl had me on, along with Paul Salter, on his show, and we discussed the very important concept of INTENTIONALITY—of being intentional, deliberate, and directive with your actions after you hear something notable, helpful, inspirational, or profound in some way.

How are you using all this content you consume? If you're a podcast listener like me, you've probably binged shows, even Wits & Weights, which I'm happy for, but are you actively applying that information to your life?

 Carl listens to this program and is an expert at implementing information, and he will demonstrate the Mental Muscle Up (MMU) approach to show you how to accomplish this yourself. All I ask is that you attempt it in this episode.

Episode Summary:

Content consumption has become an integral part of our daily lives. However, it's not just about passively consuming information; it's about actively integrating valuable takeaways into our life fabric. In this episode, we dive deep into this concept with expert Carl J. Berryman. He shares his unique method, the Mental Muscle Up (MMU), a potent tool for personal growth.

The key to personal growth is intentionality in content consumption. Instead of being a passive observer, we must engage actively with content and use it to improve ourselves. This process involves being intentional about the content we consume and integrating the information actively into our lives.

Transforming thoughts into actions can seem like an elusive concept, but it can be simplified by using potent tools like quotes. These nuggets of wisdom can effectively drive your self-improvement journey. By turning a quote or idea into a question that represents a challenge you are facing, you can harness its power for personal transformation.

It's essential to define your situation and the desired transformation to make the most out of these quotes. A useful technique is to list four things you don't want and four things you do want in your transformation. This process can help clarify your goals and provide a clear direction for your personal growth journey.

An integral aspect of personal growth is physical health, productivity, and relationships. Being organized and productive, coupled with nurturing relationships, can significantly enhance your mental and emotional health. For instance, MMUs can be a transformative tool. By tracking your energy levels in relation to carb intake, you can improve your physical health.

Ultimately, achieving personal growth is about taking action and getting results. It's about knowing what you want and being committed to achieving it, rather than just being aware of it. It's essential to be clear on our values and targets, and establish specific behaviors that will lead us to our goals.

Active content consumption is a powerful tool for personal growth. By being intentional, taking action, and utilizing tools like quotes and MMUs, we can drive our self-improvement journey.

__________

Click here to apply for coaching!
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Today you’ll learn all about:

(3:32) Importance of being more than a passive content consumer
(5:50) Role of intentionality in daily life
(8:25) How Carl curates what he listens to
(11:58) Process for active improvement from passive listening
(13:36) Applying and refining the MMU process to Wits & Weights episodes
(34:09) Unexpected actions resulting from podcast listening
(35:51) Advice for those overwhelmed by information without change
(37:34) Managing and prioritizing content takeaways
(40:27) Accountability in the MMU process and involving others
(48:18) Examples of behavior or mindset changes from podcast takeaways
(52:53) Learning from unsuccessful podcast takeaway implementations
(54:54) Aligning actions with core values and avoiding reactionary changes
(1:02:12) Carl's biggest regret with his health and fitness
(1:07:34) Outro

Episode resources:

• The Brotherhood Bootcamp Training Manual (free digital copy)

• Inspired by Impact – A Podcast for Men

• IG: @ignitetheimpact

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https://www.witsandweights.com/coaching

👩‍💻👨‍💻 GET A FREE RESULTS BREAKTHROUGH CALL WITH PHILIP
https://witsandweights.com/free-call

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Transcript

Carl Berryman  00:00

Let's say I'm listening to your podcast and it's just notable, quotable, after notable chordal after notable quote a while I'm like, You know what, as I'm listening to this podcast, I'm limiting myself to four. That is it. So then once those four are done, every other piece of content that you say that really triggers something in me and inspires me, I now have to compare it against one of the other four to see which one I'm going to ditch because I've maxed myself I've made my overwhelm limit, four.

Philip Pape  00:29

Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host, Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry. So you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in. Wits & Weights community Welcome to another episode of the Wits & Weights podcast. We have back on the show for record third time. Mr. Carl J Berryman, host of the inspired by impact podcast and one of my closest brothers from another mother. Karl recently released a series of episodes about men's mental health month for November, covering everything from purpose to relationships to fitness, and lots more. So subscribe to his show to check those out. And in one of the shows, it was on November 16, titled, what are the best ways to use physical fitness to strengthen your mental health? Carl had me on along with Paul Salter, and we discussed the very important concept of intentionality, of being intentional, deliberate and directive with your actions after you hear something notable helpful, inspirational or profound in some way. What exactly are you the listener? Yes, you the listener right now dealing with all this content you consume. If you're an avid podcast listener, like I am, I've got dozens if not hundreds of my feed, perhaps that you've you've been shows before even Wits & Weights, which I'm grateful for, but then are you integrating that information actively into your life, not just passively. And then moving on to the next episode, or video or distraction. Today, we are going to help you out. Carl is a master at implementing information, and is also a regular listener of this podcast. And he is going to give you concrete examples of how he used the takeaways from a few of our earlier episodes and took action, Carl is going to demonstrate a very effective method he calls the mental muscle up or MMU to give you the exact steps you can take to do this yourself. And all I ask is that you try it with this very episode, Carl, my brother, I'm always excited to have you back. Welcome. Welcome back.

Carl Berryman  02:47

I'm excited to be here as well. And I wanted to pick apart that intro a little bit, but of course, you've just completely blown it out of the park. So thank you for that. And thank you for putting just a tiny bit of pressure on me for the for the MMU, because I didn't realize I signed up for a workout here, but actually yeah.

Philip Pape  03:07

I mean, coaching this process, man, you're not gonna get away from it. You are you are, I love it. I love it, who also learns from you every day. And I'm really excited because you're you're running a challenge. Now in parallel with our 21 Day Challenge, you're doing a 24 day challenge. And I want to get into the drivers behind that in the process and the steps. But before that, as always, let's go back to principles, right first principles. Why is it why should we care? Why is it important? Why is it necessary to be more than a passive consumer of content? You know, and I ask that seriously, because there are people who listen to content for entertainment, for information for learning, maybe a mix of all three, I mean, I have stuff in my feed that has nothing to do with fitness. It's you know, science fiction, or news or just entertainment stories or true crime? Why is it important to be an active consumer?

Carl Berryman  04:01

Great question. I'm going to play both sides of fence. Number one, it's not if your goal is not expansion. If your goal isn't to get better, then it's not important at all. Like listen to like there's some times say for example, when I'm when I go in the sauna, I don't like like after every one of my workouts, I don't like taking notes on the stuff that I'm listening. So to so that's when I'll listen to like a modern wisdom podcast, right, because I can. While there's a lot of good takeaways there. I'm not going to apply anything specifically to the MMU unless something really jumps out at me in that case, like, one thing that I've learned over the years is that the good ship sticks, so I'll remember it anyways. Or I'll just quickly take a timestamp but I I consume that more so for relaxing purposes. Whereas if I'm listening to your show, you're specifically because I don't listen to every single episode. I go through the ones and it seems like more often than not now. They're very applicable to specific goals. And I think that kind of goes hand in hand with how much more intentionality you've given me with regards to my my physique transformation and in nutrition, but, so to put things into context, it's not important. Unless you are consuming content for the sake of getting better in a specific way, then it's important to make sure that we're going from passive to active.

Philip Pape  05:24

I like that you mentioned, you pick the topics out that are relevant to you. And also notice that they are specific, I occasionally will come across a new podcast that looks interesting. And then I start going through the episodes, and I'm like, What is the purpose of the episode? Like they'll they'll even have a big name guests on this Olympic medalist who experienced all the success and this podcast is all about success. And like, what are they getting at? And the questions are just kind of rambling. And, and so you're right, that is an aspect of being efficient with our time and being intentional is the content itself, not even what you do with it has to be worthwhile content. Right.

Carl Berryman  05:59

And so the thing, the analogy that just came up there is like, you and I, I know you, you phrase it in terms of going from exercise to training, and I like to think of it in terms of going from working out to training. And this just to me, I look at podcasting or sorry, consuming content, no differently. Like when I go into the gym, the next time I go in the gym, I just have to look at my journalist See what I did last time. If for whatever reason I forget, which I won't, but just to confirm, Kay, what is today? Okay, today's legs. Okay, so what am I doing for legs? Okay, well, today is leg day one, because I have a two day option now. So I know I'm doing squats, dads, and ham curls. Like, those are the three exercises I'm doing. I'm not guessing I'm going in specifically to do those things to accomplish a specific target. So when I'm consuming content, relative to old Carl, who would just I'd be the guy who essentially mentally went to the gym and just got on as many machines as I possibly could and pounded out as many reps as I possibly could without really thinking about okay, is this actually taken me where I want to go? Like, it doesn't make any sense for me anyways, and the reason why it didn't make any sense, because I noticed finally, when I had a hardcore wake up call, that all the time I was putting into the gym wasn't doing anything. And then when I found when I looked at that I was like, all this time and literally 10s of 1000s of dollars, I'm investing in coaching and programs and communities like, my life hasn't changed. And yet, had asked me throughout the day, oh, yeah, man, I got this great idea. This is so good. I'm gonna do it. And it's like, no, no, what you're doing isn't working. Like when are you going to stop and wait the fuck up? Like, oh, you know,

Philip Pape  07:46

that's like so many workshops and seminars and Guru like speeches you go to and you're all fired up, you might even get some material and then it just goes on the shelf and you're done two days later is back to normal. Okay, so you're talking about intentionality, I want to I want to address again, how, okay, let me give you my personal experience, I've got a lot of podcasts in my feed, and I try to whittle them out, you know, when they're relevant anymore, but I do notice that some shows will build up and others immediately when the episode comes out, I want to watch I want to listen to it. Right. And that's, that's a form of intentionality, in my opinion, right? Where I know that there are things that are serving me, but it's not as rigorous as what I'm hearing from you, which I'd be curious about, how do you curate what you listen to? And when you listen to it without it becoming? You know, some people might say, Well, I'm not gonna have a calendar for like, what pocket pack has listened to win? How do you do that?

Carl Berryman  08:39

Another awesome question. Phillip, thanks for that.

Philip Pape  08:42

That's what we're here for man. Exactly. Awesome questions.

Carl Berryman  08:47

And mediocre answers. Okay. So how do I curate it? There's a couple different ways. So specifically, when I'm doing my mental muscle ups, like in the morning, that journaling experience, I have to make sure for me that I'm not just spending every single morning focused on purpose, because purpose is the one thing that I can't stop ever thinking about. I just can't like the podcast, the training manual, everything like that, right? So because when I was younger, I hated doing legs at the gym. But I don't want to be one of those guys who's got a jacked upper body and just these ridiculous chicken legs, like you have to train every single muscle group you have to. So that's how I develop intentionality in terms of I'll go back in my journal and I'll just look at all man, you haven't done ironically enough physical health and fitness is the one that gets skipped the most for me. And I say that because my physical health and fitness is probably the aspects that I'm least concerned with at this point. time because of your help. And my intentionality, I've gotten myself to a point where I'm content but not satisfied, because I definitely want to achieve more. Yet at the same time, if I have to allocate my time, which is limited to other areas of the prep work, say, for example, relationships, or my mental and emotional health and fitness, those are going to take a priority. So really, it boils down to what haven't I been training? Or where does it hurt the most? Okay,

Philip Pape  10:38

I like that, because you in your training manual, which I'm showing on the video here for YouTube. This is the Brotherhood boot camp training manual, you've got the prep work, as you call it, the P R EP, right purpose relationships, emotional and physical. And you're saying that you can choose on any given day, which one you're going to focus on. And sometimes you just don't focus on something for a while. Yeah. And maybe you need maybe you need or want to. You also mentioned though, sometimes you do that intentionally because it doesn't need that right now. There's all these things to balance, you only have so much time in the day, you kind of go between them, and maybe one can uplift the other when you know when you focus on it, right? So people listening, like Carl's really good with the analogy of taking the gym and applying it to life. Like he said, the chicken legs versus the strong upper body. Which is like the opposite for women. Right? Big legs. Yeah, that's right. That's right. So all of this aspect of intentionality is really important. And you're wondering why the hell do I have Carl on here to talk about this on a fitness show? Besides, you know, he's, he's one of the best dudes in my life, and you learn a lot from him, is when you're listening to this show, I put out two episodes a week and two short episodes a week. And if you're listening to every single one of those, that's a lot of time commitment. And I thank you for that. But I want you to take action with that. Right. And so I want to understand, Carl, you're now let's drill down a little bit more. With your focus on integrating lessons from podcasts in your life, what are the steps that somebody can take without being overwhelmed? Right now?

Carl Berryman  12:06

Okay, so really, really quickly. Inside the gym, again, I really like to as I'm teaching classes, or working with clients, I really like to use the scale of level 123. and So level one is taken nice and easy. Level two is dial up and you can dial back when you need. And level three is give it everything you got. So as it relates to, sorry, remind me the question so I can make sure I dial this in. Right. The question

Philip Pape  12:35

is, when you are listening to podcasts, how do you take the next step from that to action? Okay, excellent. So

Carl Berryman  12:42

when I first started, like the the training manual that you're holding in your hands, that is the level three, as far as I'm concerned, like, those five questions are level three. So it might be a little bit intense for everybody, because or not everybody for some people because it requires a lot of introspection. And if you're not used to introspection, it's gonna be a bit much. It's like putting too much weight on the bar. So the first level is just kind of contemplation. So you hear something and man, like, just kind of sit there with it for a minute. Like you don't have to do anything, just let it sink in. Because eventually, what I found, and I'm sure a lot of people can relate to this, is it's going to come back in some way, shape or form. And there'll be something that happens in your life where you can apply what you were contemplating on. But I don't really want to leave it to chance like that. So level two,

Philip Pape  13:32

let's address that though the contemplation when he says it, when you say it comes back, do you mean because you're continuing to consume content that the theme reemerge is because it's relevant to you or something else? You

Carl Berryman  13:43

know, something else? I'm glad you asked for clarification on that. So for example, I can't think of a specific No, I can't think of a specific example. So day one of our challenge like the 24 before 2024 challenge was all about values. Right? So this morning when I'm going for a walk, I actually it was something that happened later in the day. I was in Instagram and I saw Chris Williamson from the modern wisdom podcast post a post that he got 1.5 million subscribers Okay, so instantly that triggered a little bit of an like just insecurity in me like man this guy's so far ahead of me right? So but now since values is top of mind for me, I immediately asked myself the question Question Carl, what do you truly value like what do you really value do you value the number of subscribers or downloads you have? It's like no, what I truly value is the connection I have with the people that I love the most and the video you sent me today and then Alan sense and then Dennis text me as well like, that's what I value. So am I going to feel horrible about something that means nothing to me, in this case, subscribers, or I'm going to feel amazing about what means the most to me. And that's connection with For the guys in my life. So that's what I mean by if if you're just contemplating something, now you're kind of putting it into into your RAS so that you can start keeping an eye open for it more. So that's it. That's level one. And then level two, which is what we're doing in the challenge right now for part of it is just answering a question that's relevant to what you're consuming. So for example, if I hear from your podcast, like the one with Mike Milner, what was that? 126? Oh, geez, no, no, was 123 123. So there were a lot of gems in there. But the one that I that hit me the hardest that I did an MMU on, was this idea of depositing trust money into your bank account, like self trust, right? So now I'm asking myself the question, How can I continuously make deposits into my self trust bank account? And then I'm literally writing down and finding an action step that represents me putting those words that inspired me into action? So That's level two. So that's inspiration? Yes. Okay, level three, the difference between level three or level two, and level three is the difference between exercise and training. So it's all good to hear really, really good stuff and implement it right away. But that's like going to the gym without a plan. It's better than sitting on the couch, but it still might not get you anywhere. And even if it does, you're going to hit a plateau, and you'll probably stay there. So what really helped me go from level two to level three, in other words, exercise to training was making sure that those steps I was taking, were linked to a very specific outcome that I was wanting. So for example, with you. The goal is to gain muscle, right? Like I want to add some muscle. So if I'm listening to your podcast, and I'm like, oh, man, that's a really good idea. I should start tracking my calories. Okay. Yeah, that's good. And everything like that. And this is a really good example, because you know, better than anybody I, I hated tracking calories. And now I love it. The reason why I hated it before is because it wasn't linked up to a specific target. I knew I should do it. I knew there was benefits to it. But it wasn't linked up to something specific that I was measuring. And this is where I used to go wrong big time. I would have goals like I want to get bigger, I want to get stronger, I want to be in better shape. Those aren't goals. Like those are just words. Like what is what does that even mean? Like? What does that look like? So what do I want to look feel and perform? Like if I can define those to the point where I can measure them? Now I'm going from exercising to train? Does that make sense? Makes

Philip Pape  17:53

perfect sense. So you can either contemplate That's level one, right? And one of the things you talk about in your manual and on your show all the time is no level zeros. So at least doing something here is but way better than nothing. It's kind of like going from from zero to 80% Then you go from 80 to 90 and then 90 to 100 level to answering the relevant question getting inspired putting it what you've heard into an answer a question to yourself that you then answer and then level three linking that to specific outcomes that you are measuring. And in your challenge you're doing kind of an escalating approach to get there for the brothers in that because people might feel overwhelmed doing it all on day one just like I told you you need to train need to sleep needy do this this all on day one. Forget that. I'm gonna go back to keto again keto. That's the boogeyman for

Carl Berryman  18:46

the boogey man, I like that I like that the Keto boogeyman

Philip Pape  18:51

it's the trigger. So alright, so you gave a little example there from the episode 123 with Mike Miller, I don't know if you want to dive into more of that. Or another example that's specific to this show. So people listening to me like okay, that's how I can do it. Yeah,

Carl Berryman  19:04

we'll do another we'll do another one. And actually, I'm not going to do so I sent you the three this morning. But I'm going to I'm going to skip the one or I'm going to call an audible on the one from your episode. 100 Do you happen to have that handy what the quote was that I got from you there? I don't remember off hand if you don't take it

Philip Pape  19:23

away. You sent me there this morning with Okay, I

Carl Berryman  19:25

got it Okay, which means I can pull it up right away. Give me two seconds. Yeah, go for is the one with all the photos. Yes, it is so Okay, so I got it right here. Okay, so, this is what Philip said in Episode 100. He said quote, skepticism is not just questioning everything that comes at you. It's questioning everything that comes from you. And quote, I remember specifically when I was in the gym listening to that I had to stop what I was doing, like, Ah, that was gut wrenching. It was a gut wrenching aha moment. So I'll I'll just you know what Yeah, I'm going to call an audible on this one and pull it through the MMU. So the situation that's so the first question in the in the MMU is what is your situation? And essentially, think of that, like you're determining what you're going to be training inside of the gym, like what is, what is the outcome that you're kind of going towards? So you define what the situation is. So if you're going to the gym, oh, I want to increase my bench by 20 pounds. Okay, well, that's the situation. In this case, I'm realizing that I have some stories and some beliefs when it comes to my physique that probably aren't serving me. So what are those beliefs? And how do I change them to ones that are serving me? So that's what I would put as the situation. So

Philip Pape  20:47

let's, let's break that down real quick. So you took a quote that I said, and by the way, this is really cool that you can talk to the person who said the quote, right, because is sometimes the things I will say at a podcast, and I'm sure you've seen this the same, they just come out. It's not like some profound thing. Yep. And it hits somebody else. And I'm not going to, I'm not going to diminish that at all. I'm not going to say, oh, you know, that's I didn't mean anything by it. When you took something from that. That's, that's awesome. So the skeptic skepticism, not at you, but from you. You heard that that's your notable, quotable that the phrase you use. And you turn that into an interpretation for you of limiting beliefs. Yes. Which is extremely profound concept in everything we do to approve. And then you said, Okay, that's the beginning of my inspiration. Right? Yeah.

Carl Berryman  21:35

Right. So that's like, that's where you then link it back to the situation. And side note here, when I do, you can look at it a couple different ways. It's like if you go to the gym, and it's leg day, and you normally like say, for me, it'd be squats, deads. And then like curl, right? Well, let's say all the squat racks are taken. And for whatever reason, there's no Olympic bars, well, I don't want to do leg curls first, for sure. Because like, that's definitely going to limit my squats and my dad's. But at the same time, I don't want to wait half an hour to start my workout. So unfortunately, I'm gonna have to go there. So there's flexibility in the way that you do the exercises. Same thing with this in the mornings, I always start off with the situation, because I want to, I'm lucky that I have access to hundreds of quotes that I've gotten in my podcast that I have readily available on my phone. So I know who the author is. And it's like, Okay, so today, if I'm working on physical health and fitness, I'll just go to all the Philip Pape quotes that I have, and I'm going to pick one that is relevant to whatever I've defined the situation and be. And so then, but if you get your notable, quotable first, chances are it hit you for a reason. And that reason is something that you can probably put in the form of a question. That is a challenge that you were facing. So applying the notable, quotable, and then defining your situation in the form of a question that represents a challenge you're facing. makes it so much easier that you're going to are much more likely that whatever you took from the podcast is going to serve you well.

Philip Pape  23:13

Okay, okay. I like that. So you take a quote that you hear, turn it into a question, I would expand on that. And I know you have as well that it doesn't have to be a verbatim quote, if you hear a general idea concept, some of your paraphrase. Maybe it was half an hour ago on the podcast, and it's been sticking with you. And now you just want to get it out. You don't necessarily have to find the timestamp. We want to make this easy for people to get what you want out of it. And and there you go, okay. Yes. No,

Carl Berryman  23:39

no, that's perfect. Because then in this situation, if I didn't have the timestamp, I'd have been like, Oh, what did Philip say? It would have been something along along the lines of Don't believe everything you think, okay. And then I just write down Don't believe everything you think. And that would be my, quote, unquote, notable, quotable. And so then, the next question inside the MMU is what is your transformation? And this one really, really helped me i? Where did I hear it first? I think I can't remember. I think I read it somewhere, actually, where you hear about this couple, and they're looking to go on vacation. So they go to the airport, and they're talking to a travel agent, and they're like, Oh, well, where do you want to go? They're like, we're not quite sure. It's like, Well, what was the last vacation? You went on? Oh, we went, we went to this place. We went to that place. Well, what did you like about it? Well, you know what? I'm not really sure. But then so he's had enough of this, like just going around and around. So he says, What didn't you like about the vacation? Oh, man, the food wasn't really that good. Oh, the hotel was not that clean, and people can just rattle off what they didn't like about it, right? So he's like, Okay, so now he makes a list. He has a list of all the things that they don't want. So it's like, okay, so then a vacation that you wouldn't be looking for would be one that has great food, one that has pulsar, one that has whatever it is they listed, right, so we just list off like five things. So I found that for me, what really helps to get me clear about what I do want is to first list out what I don't want, which is why What is your transformation, you look for things that you don't want versus for things that you do want. So in this case, this case, if I'm looking to be a skeptic for myself, and keep in mind, I'm just doing this impromptu. If I'm looking to be a skeptic of my own beliefs, what I want to make sure is that I'm not letting my limiting beliefs guide my behavior. So what I would want on the opposite that is I want empowering beliefs to guide my behavior. And then I would keep going down list just saying the opposite of what I don't want to get very clear about what I do want, because now it's going to be dialed in to what I want at the end of the day, right? Yeah, it

Philip Pape  25:36

makes a lot of sense the way you explained it, where, because of psychology, we love to criticize, we love to say we don't like, you know, if everything goes well, we tend to be it's like going to Amazon looking at a product you're gonna see the one star reviews and the five star reviews and five star reviews are probably all bought for one star reviews are the all the honest reviews, and nobody reviews in between, right? So and that just for listeners, right? Again, in your training manual, that is the next section, what is your transformation, and it is just four lines that say don't versus do. And what Carlos said is, if you can't think of what you want to do, think of what you don't like, and then turn it into the opposite of what can serve you.

Carl Berryman  26:17

And so as it relates to our physical body, right, like, for me, if I say, You know what, I don't want my arms to be small, I don't want to have a flat chest, I don't want to not be able to see my six pack. Okay, well, what do I want, I want jacked arms, I want a full chest, I want to rip six pack like it's just, it comes so much quicker. If you're stumbling upon the things that you do want if you first list things that you don't want. So anyways, not to be no

Philip Pape  26:46

and and Carl probably notices me looking down a lot. But again, I'm just admiring his training manual, as we go through today, like cover fields, I like the way they come. That's nice. It's but it's structured. You know, it's like you've got it all listed in here and the whole first like 30 pages, explain this whole process and give you a bunch of examples. So alright, so that's the transformation. You've got your situation, your notable quotable, your transformation. And then what's next?

Carl Berryman  27:13

The next one is what is your inspiration? And what I found with this one, and this actually ties back to what you said. Because what you said is that sometimes you say things on your podcast that become aha moments for somebody else that weren't necessarily what you meant. So what I found for me, is that the the fourth question, what is your inspiration that allows you to make this really personal and customized to you? So it's where you're essentially, what I do is, right before I'm about to write out, what is my inspiration? I go back, and I just really quickly review. Okay, what was the situation? What's the notable, quotable, and what's the things that I don't do want? And then I'm trying really to come up with an answer for what is the situation, and I'm just kind of word vomiting on the page to let my own inner wisdom come through. Like what does this mean, to me, it might be a place where I let out some more frustrations about the way that in this case, the way that my limiting beliefs have been holding me back. Why I need to let them go, how it's not serving me. So this is kind of a free for all. But it's where you you kind of bring everything together and put it into context before the final and what I would say is the most important step so

Philip Pape  28:22

that makes sense. So you've taken this these pieces, you're now putting them together in freeform, it kind of reminds me of the classic classic like journal I know I know. You don't necessarily want to use the word but that's like to me is kind of putting it together which is nice because then you get you get the brain dump away from the all the initial information you wrote down. You're synthesizing it right? It's kind of like when you have all your notes and you need to write a paper or do a podcast now you synthesizing it together and then what comes after that?

Carl Berryman  28:50

So before what comes after that, though, I just to give an example. I want to demo whatever is down for this one specifically in today's MMU. So what is your inspiration? I put what if I'm completely wrong? I love and hate this question, because at first glance who wants to be wrong, yet isn't being wrong? Typically the first step to being right. So what do I want to be right about as it relates to my body? And what does right look and feel like both tangibly and intangibly? So now I'm just I'm really just asking myself more questions to help me get clear on the next step, which is, what is your integration? And this one? Oh, man, if I were to show you the different pieces and versions of the training manual, that's this is this is the one that's given me the most headaches because like I've been doing this since 2017. And it for such a long time. I was doing the I was doing it used to be called implementation. I was doing the implementation, implementation implementation, but nothing was really changing. And there would be times where I didn't do what I was supposed to do. You won't, I wouldn't realize it until the next morning, I opened up the training mountains. Um, and yeah, that's right. I was supposed to do this. And I just, I just forgot. So there's five extremely critical steps there. Because the question, what is your integration, the whole, the whole idea behind that is to get you to take one small, specific and simple action the next 24 hours, whatever that is. So the first three of those five little check, like literally checkboxes in the training manual that you want to check off to make sure you're doing the right thing. There you go. Thank you, Philip. That's awesome. So are small, specific and simple. But then I added to, that made a huge difference number one was scheduled. So I had to, like literally set an alarm in my phone to remind me when I was going to take the action that I come up with, and then shared. So I shared I might change in the next version of the manual to either say spot so that I can ask somebody for a spot with that, or shout out because if you were the one who inspired me with your notable quotable, I want to give you a shout out for helped me take this action.

Philip Pape  31:11

So that's the that's the community slash accountability slash brotherhood aspect of that.

Carl Berryman  31:17

Yeah, you know what you're gonna count. I'm not a huge fan of that word. Accountability

Philip Pape  31:21

beyond Okay. Support Community says, you know, whatever you want to call it friends. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And I liked the scheduled, right, because I think I don't know if any of this was inspired by the SMART acronym. Which specific, measurable action or whatever it is. There's a million versions of measurable actual, realistically bound. Bound.

Carl Berryman  31:40

Yeah. time bound, even realistic. Like,

Philip Pape  31:44

I know, that's realistic.

Carl Berryman  31:46

That's why yeah, anyways,

Philip Pape  31:48

the schedule part is important, though, because sometimes that comes up a lot with I know, with my clients where it's just add a reminder to your phone like that, if you do nothing else, just put this reminder in your phone. And like you said, it might be a reminder to remind yourself or something like it may not even be a thing itself. Because you don't know when you're gonna do that thing necessarily, right? Yeah.

32:08

My name is Tony from a strength lifter in my 40s Thank you to Phil and his Wits, & Weights community for helping me learn more about nutrition and how to implement better ideas into my strength training. Phil has a very, very good understanding of macros, and chemical compounds and hormones and all that and he's continuously learning. And that's what I like about Phil, he's got a great sense of humor. He's very relaxed, very easy to talk to. One of the greatest things about Phil, in my view is that he practices what he preaches. He also works out with barbells, he trains heavy, you notice that he has made but he trains heavy. So if you talk with him about getting in better shape, eating better, he's probably going to give you some good advice. And I would strongly recommend you talk with him, and they'll help you out. Thanks.

Carl Berryman  32:53

Yeah, another piece of that though, the that I got from James clears book atomic habits. And that's why the first part of the integration is your I Am statement. So I found for me that linking behaviors to the type of person I know myself or that I want to be, and he talks about this and atomic habits is extremely powerful for getting us to follow through on the things that we have difficulty following through on. So linking it up to an identity statement. So in this case, my identity, my identity statement for physical health and fitness because I have one or two for each area of prep work that are just standards that when I say them, and I think them they generated a very, very empowering feeling in me. And one of my I am statements for physical health and fitness fitness is I am one jacked, motherfucker. And as soon as I as soon as I read that, it's like, yeah, whatever this action is, it's getting done.

Philip Pape  33:56

That's like a vision board, man. You know, it's like, hey, Arnold, and like Ronnie, and all these guys on the vision board, like that's cool, man. Oh, yeah. Yeah. self identity. Yes. Yeah,

Carl Berryman  34:09

the integration is easily the the most important part in terms of making sure that Listen, you're listening to brilliant guys. Like, Philip, let's, let's put their words to some actual action. And the reason why I switched it from implementation to integration is because I wanted to get myself to start thinking about rather than just like, one hit wonder steps, because that's what I was doing all the time. I like to think about little, like the atomic habits thing where little tiny habits that I can start developing into practices,

Philip Pape  34:39

right. Rather than are part of your new routine. Yeah. Right. So say for extended comfort zone. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Carl Berryman  34:45

Like the other day when Derek had that whole thing on gratitude, right. So one of the things that I this was just a conversation with a friend of mine that when I had him on my podcast, and he mentioned how gratitude for him is the first step to self awareness. Somebody Okay, I'm going to start practicing gratitude a bit more about how am I going to do it. So now, since I'm going for walks everyday things to fill up, I have two different types of walks, I have a walk with the block, which is, the block is my inner enemy. Let's call him that. So I give him some airtime and let him come out and tell me why he's doing, what he's doing, and what he needs from me. And then I do the same thing with gratitude. So I'll go for a gratitude walk where it's like, Hey, what is the one thing I'm really going to be grateful for during this walk and just giving that some emotionality? So what what are the practices that I can potentially make into an integration that way it is actually integrated into my life, and therefore has a much more likely chance of sticking?

Philip Pape  35:44

Okay, so then I have a follow up on that. And it's actually two parts. One is, how do you avoid getting overwhelmed because you're doing this every day, and now you're coming up with a new action every day, where those would stack up? If they were all new habits every single day, five days, seven days a week, you're starting something new? And you could you could just imagine these layering on top of each other. There's this overwhelming set of things you're doing. If they're not one hit wonders. That's, that's one. And then the other piece is how do you close the loop? You know, you've written it down. How do you hold yourself? I guess I will use the word accountable, but it's self accountability to that.

Carl Berryman  36:19

Okay, are you gonna remember both those questions? Because yes,

Philip Pape  36:22

I will. Outside. That's what media does, right to the politicians. Questions and once Yeah, okay.

Carl Berryman  36:30

So the first question is, how do you prevent overwhelm? Yeah, how do you prevent Okay, so let's say in the gym, right now, there are so many different principles that I could be using during my workouts, right? Like, I could be super setting, I could be doing five by fives, I could be doing German volume training, I could be doing long range partials, which I am right now. What I'm going to do is I'm going to pick one, and then I really have to decide, okay, how long am I going to test this for? Because I don't know if it's going to work, but I want to test it. If I'm coming upon new stuff all the time, I then have to compare it to say K. Number one, have I given my previous thing enough time to actually see if this works? If these answer's no, then I just discard it. And if the answer is yes, it's like, Okay, we're gonna move on to this something new or do I really, really like long range partials? I'm getting great results. So there's no need to change it. So how long have I been doing it? Have I given enough time to test and then another really, really simple way thing that helped me? Oh, man, you should have seen my notes before, whenever I was doing. Let's say, I'm listening to your podcast. And it's just notable, quotable, after notable cordial, after notable quote a while I'm like, You know what, as I'm listening to this podcast, I'm limiting myself to four. That is it. So then once those four are done, every other piece of content that you say that really triggers something in me and inspires me, I now have to compare it against one of the other four to see which one I'm going to ditch because I've maxed myself, I've made my overwhelm limit, four, which means if anything else comes after the four, it's either replacing one of the four, or it's not making it to the list, just like exercises, like how many exercises do I have time for in the gym today? Well, I'm going to be there for 45 minutes. I know, given how I'm doing it. Three exercises good for me. But what if I want to do five? Too bad? You've got time for three? Yeah.

Philip Pape  38:23

Let's get more specific, though. If if you're doing your prep work every day in the journal, yeah. And you're writing down a integration action, because you have the statement here. I am committed to doing something by some time. Yep. Right. And and generally, I'm guessing like, it's what you said it's within 24 hours. Yep. Is that action? Something you can do once? Or is it sometimes an action that then becomes a repeated action? It's both. Okay. And the ones that repeat, repeated actions couldn't get overwhelmed every day by adding a new one? Or do you sometimes repeat the one you did yesterday? And if I'm overthinking this, let me know.

Carl Berryman  39:00

You are not overthinking us. This is a brilliant question. And it takes us into IBI principle number one, right quality versus quantity. So a lot of the times when I'm doing it's like it, so when I'm doing the MMU Now I've done it so many times, it's like, if you're doing a squat, for example, I found one of the things that really helps me add weight to my squat is if I focus on at the bottom of the squat, forcing my knees out, like really thinking about forcing my knees out in order to get up faster. Like that's just a, that's just a cue that works for me, doesn't have to work for everybody. But what I found with the MMU is, is at some point in time, those cues, you're not gonna have to think about them, they're going to become unconscious, because you've done them so many times. So now when I'm going into that fifth question, what is your integration? I'm automatically thinking of quality over quantity. So I'm probably going to ask myself a question that will represent me doing something that I'm already doing with a higher level of quality. Okay, so that way you're not really piling on more and more things to do. You're going for depth instead of with like

Philip Pape  40:11

it. Okay. Yeah, that's actually a really good answer. And, you know, I might, I might throw that in our group later as like inspiration, right as like, okay, that's my action.

Carl Berryman  40:25

And then the second question, what was it again?

Philip Pape  40:26

The self accountability. So now you have that the next day comes along. What if you didn't do it? Like, there's a chance you didn't do it? So yeah, what does that? Yeah, yep. Oh, okay.

Carl Berryman  40:35

So there's a couple things that happened there. Number one, is I scheduled it. So in my phone, I have a standard alarm that just says MMU. And then I change it to whatever time I've designated during my morning routine that that is gonna be the time that I do my MMU. But sometimes stuff comes up, and I can't get to it. So there's a couple different options that I do. Number three, if you think about it, number one, well, if I didn't do it, maybe it wasn't important enough to be done. So then I'm really gonna evaluate if I needed to do it. Maybe I just got lazy, maybe, maybe I got busy. So now it's like, okay, well, do I need to put this on top of the thing that I that I'm planning on doing today. So again, now it's like going back to that thing of where I have four notes, but now it's really two. So but what I usually do is most of the things that I come up with in terms of integration steps don't take very long at all. And there are things that I can do in really a few minutes. So what I do is, every morning, I go to my previous pages, and I don't have this in your current training manual, but at the top where it says PRP, I'm rating myself out of three in every area of prep work to give myself a daily score. Okay, so then I do that before I start a new MMU. So then if I'm going back and was like, Ah, I didn't do that thing for physical health. Now, it's like, did it need to be done? No. Okay, we'll move on. Yes, it needed to be done. So say, for example, your latest not your latest episode, but Episode 126, where he talked about the importance of carbs and making sure that I'm not going to like, I'm not ripping down my muscle and using it as fuel, essentially, that's an important one for me. So if I didn't do yesterday's MMU, and today's MMU was based on that from your podcast, guess what? Yesterday's, it's gone. I'm forgetting about it. Because focusing on my carbs, which is essentially what I did this morning, really long story short with that MMU, I realized I'm not thinking macro factor, I'm hitting my calories, I'm hitting my protein by hitting my fat, but I'm not hitting carbs. And I've noticed that it's really affecting my energy throughout the day. So what I came up with long story short for the integration, is going into macro factor today in advance making sure that my day hits my my carb targets. And then, at the end of the day, and I set alarm for this, is I'm going to give myself a rating for my energy as it relates to my carbs. So I'm going to write down what was your energy out of three? What was level three in the evening? Okay, well, what was your carb count? Well, your carb was 367. And that's what it's supposed to be. Okay. Awesome. So now, over a couple of weeks time, I'm going to be able to see, does the does the amount of carbs that I have actually affect my energy in the evening? Because that's what I want to know. So I'm going to do that for a couple of weeks.

Philip Pape  43:28

Everyone listening should do that. Really good. This integration

Carl Berryman  43:33

step, how much? How much time does it take me to write down my energy level and compare it to my carbs? Like, that's 30 seconds. So a lot of these steps? Sure, there can be a lot of them. But they'll take like 1530 seconds, and some of them are dynamic.

Philip Pape  43:46

And that's, that's actually part of the answer right? There is just keep them short and simple, because you aren't gonna get overwhelmed if it's like, make a list of 100 Blah, blah, blah, and then do this and do this and do that. It's funny, because I, I am a little bit well, I'm organized in a different way. But like, I will keep emails unread. In my inbox, I have a very small inbox, I'm a zero inbox type of person. I like to just take care of things, or file them away if it's just information or leave them unread if I'm going to get them done. But those lower they get on the list that I realized that they must not be that important. And eventually it's like, they go. Yeah, so same kind of thing. You just never know. Because in the moment, you're all excited, you're like, Yeah, I got to do this thing. And then you realize, you know, time is an interesting moderator.

Carl Berryman  44:28

I do that with a lot of your text messages. Actually. I'll read them and I'm like, this isn't important. I'll make it unread. And then I just completely delete it all together. So

Philip Pape  44:37

that explains it explains a few things. All right. So if I haven't lost the audience with getting too much technical about this, hopefully not. I think it's pretty cool approach no matter what like, what do you have Karl's journal The principles are, you know, time tested and you've referenced things that you've borrowed from right like atomic habits and behavioral psychology and all this stuff. You know, Carl's The man reached out if you have questions about this, I want to get into some follow ups on this outside of the specific application, for example, doing this process, is there something that has really surprised you, you know, over the years after listening and then going through this process?

Carl Berryman  45:15

Great question. And it already makes me think that I can't believe I haven't thought of an answer in advance to what your last question is going to be. But yeah, the thing that surprised me, and this may sound like it's not gonna sound like a broken record to your audience, but it sounds like a broken record to me. One of the reasons I first started doing this journaling process, if you will, was because when I hit rock bottom back at the end of 2020, beginning 2021, I really wanted to evaluate and figure what the lead domino in my life was, as it related to the prep work. So is it my physical health or fitness? Isn't my emotional health and fitness, my sense of purpose? Like, what is it that if I take care of it, it's going to take care of everything else. And it made sense to me that it was my emotional health and fitness, because I'm like, Man, if I can, if I can become the master of rather than the slave of my emotions. And despite how I feel, I can take the actions that I know I need to take. That, to me is like the lead Domino. So I followed that for a long time. And nothing changed. In fact, it got worse, because I was putting so much pressure on myself. So then I just asked myself that, again, at that point in time, I was being skeptical of my own beliefs. So saying, okay, Carl, what is the thing? I kind of pulled a George Costanza, in that I did the opposite. So if you don't know who George Costanza is and what the opposite is, then just stop listening if you're not in the Seinfeld, because I don't want to talk to you. Anyways, so relationships was the bottom of the prep work for me, like the bottom, hence why Jenny Lee and I had our three months separation, and just Yeah, I had you asked me if our relationships were important. Mavenlink Yeah, they are. But if you look at my actions, they're not because I'm canceling on friends. I'm not returning messages. I'm not returning calls. I'm not spending time with Jenny Lee. So I said, Okay, well, what would happen if I did the opposite? What if I made relationships like the lead Domino? And wouldn't you know, that changed? Everything? Absolutely. Everything. So what surprised me. And this has become a fundamental belief of mine is that if I wanted to improve any area of my life, whether it was my body, my sense of purpose, and especially my mental, emotional health, It all depended on the quality of the relationships I have with the people I cared the most about. I was not expecting that. And

Philip Pape  47:47

that has carried forward into your mission today. I mean, it shines in everything you do is connecting, connecting people to each other and connecting with them. So if someone listening feels like they are struggling, and they're like, why, like your idea, but I'm overwhelmed, and I'm not sure where to start, and maybe it's a mental health, maybe it's something else, like you said, emotion sounded like the obvious root cause because it was tied into mental health, but something else was holding it back. Even if you had, quote, unquote, leveled up your emotion as best you could. How can someone figure that out? Well,

Carl Berryman  48:19

to me, it's like, I didn't figure out what the squat, that's my knee that if I focus on doing my knees out and tell, I'm gonna say this was within the last 18 months, and I've been a personal trainer for 12 years. So it's going to be a matter of taking in testing, taking and testing, taking and testing. So consuming something that works or that you think is going to work and testing it out. The hard part is, you got to figure out okay, how long do I need to give this but it's like a diet, right? So if people are going to try, say, for example, shred tilbyr. Okay, well, if people are going to do that, you got to stick with it for the two weeks to see if it actually works. You can't you can't do shred Tober for a week, and you can't do it for six weeks, you got to do it for the specified amount of time. So you got to figure out okay, well, if I think this is really going to help me, what's a realistic amount of time that's, I need to give this to see if it actually works. And more importantly, this is one of the this is one of the questions. It's called the Miracle questions from the book switch, which is a phenomenal book on habits. miracle question that therapists would use with their clients. Say, for example, if they're an addict, and or an alcoholic, say, Hey, you work you wake up tomorrow, and your problem is 100% gone and you're like, you're just a new person. What would be the first sign that you know it's gone? So when it comes to our goals, and changing them from goals to targets, if we can get clear about what the first sign is that what we're doing is working, then we'll be able to really tell if we know what we're doing is working. So for example, like I've got a client who had to come decision with him the other day about macro factor he went in, and he changed his goals to weight loss because the scale wasn't going down. And we had a very interesting conversation. So he changed it back. But I said, dude, like, what are you measuring? Like, what specifically are you measuring? He's like, Well, I'm measuring my waist circumference and a measuring how my clothes fit. Like, I want to lose weight, because and then I asked them why? Because I want my clothes to fit better. I want to feel stronger. Like, do your clothes fit better right now? Yeah, they're looser. Do you feel stronger right now? And do we have the numbers and the evidence to support that? Yes. So then why are you changing your fucking targets? Because he lost sight of what his targets actually work? Well,

Philip Pape  50:40

that's okay. I'm processing this, because I'm trying to think of what the people who are listening, you just gave them a few different ways to approach this one one way sounds like first of all, the prep work has has different areas, right. And if you can identify the different areas of your life, at least spending time on all of them, to some extent, would help versus neglecting one completely. Right that that comes to mind. And then the second thing is testing, measuring, and then going by the things that are improving, that would have improved if you knew the problem was gone. Yeah. So I had a client recently who long term client. And it's similar situation, you said, like she knew what to do, and wasn't doing it. And it was showing the results, right. And as soon as she, for example, started eating more, whatever it was, in the next day, hey, feeling great. I was scared about regaining weight, for example, but I'm not anymore. Because I realized that what's more important is this other thing, and I was, you know, way worse off with that. And I'm not going into details here, but it's good, Carl. Okay, so

Carl Berryman  51:49

one thing I want to add there, that shirt really, really important. Yeah, we don't give ourselves enough credit when it comes to looking at our past experience. So for me in terms of training, for example, I, I knew what I like to do for training before I was as consistent as I am now. And I deviated from that. So when I had my wake up call, I'm like, Carl, just what do you what do you like to do for training that, you know, gets you results? And so that's why I'm doing the style that I do now. So if we can get quiet and reflect on once upon a time, when we were experiencing the opposite of that, which we don't want to be experiencing right now and put the pieces of the puzzle together of what was different than its compared to now hence, the second or the third question, don't want versus do want it, it becomes pretty clear that you already know the answers.

Philip Pape  52:36

So that's interesting. That brings up the also the idea of if you are testing and measuring and taking action, and things are not going as planned, right, what what how you learn from that experience. I mean, that's that's what comes to mind to me as well, because I'm sure you've done your prep work, and you did some integration. And it's not. It's not giving you what you want. Right, right. Yeah. And, yeah, yeah, no, no, go ahead. No, no, no, you go ahead. Just

Carl Berryman  53:05

that, to me. This is where the 8020 rule really applies. Like, I know, my results are going to come from 20% of the work. But typically speaking, if I'm not getting results, from the integration steps that I've been dedicating my time and energy to doing, there's really about 20% of my excuses, or reasons that are going to be why. And one of them is going to be you haven't been doing it long enough. Plain and simple. So say, for example, my podcast, right, like, I don't have the quote unquote, amount of followers and downloads that I want right now. And why is that? Oh, well, there's 1,000,001 reasons. But the main reason that I am choosing to entertain, I just haven't been doing it. I haven't gotten in the reps yet. I need to get more reps. I am convinced because this is what so many successful people in front of me have told me is that you just need to get in more reps. So I am committed to getting in the reps. So if if ever anything's not working, it typically boils down to have I really given it a chance. Sure. I mean,

Philip Pape  54:18

we talked about consistency, and it's become a buzzword. But really, it should be replaced with commitment. Yeah. Commitment. Yeah, right. Getting doing something for repeated basis over time. Not perfectly and not necessarily every day, continuously over time. You can miss a podcast episode, but you do the next 10 years. You're still golden. As soon as you drop off that's that's where the challenge comes in. All right, one or two more things you got time. A couple couple minutes. Yeah, okay. You and I had a I think was a conversation over text not long ago about not being reactionary or conversely being reacting too quickly when you hear something on a podcast and be like, Oh, that blows my mind and you know, it just opened my mind and changed my mind. Whatever, you probably know what I'm talking about. Right? Almost like, sometimes the what might be a notable, quotable is really just a soundbite that just sounds great in the moment. Yeah. And then you and you're like, you want to take action on it, but maybe you shouldn't maybe step back and like, just wait and sit with it. So what are your thoughts on that?

Carl Berryman  55:23

It because, okay, so I'm trying to think of who quoted this on my podcast? Oh,

Philip Pape  55:32

it was actually I think we're not saying yeah, weird, or, or was it the awareness and either last step is not awareness or whatever. You know, I'll

Carl Berryman  55:41

summarize it right now. But di talked about when you know, your values, it gets really, it's very easy to say yes or no to things. So if you know specifically, what your targets are in a specific area, say for example, your physique, okay, well, I know what I'm eating today and macro factor already, because it's programmed in there. And I've left some room because it's Friday, so I'm probably going to have a cocktail. So there's room in there for that. But if something comes up, and I want to Jenny Lee wants to go somewhere, something's like, Ah, it's not part of the plan right now. Like, it's not macro factor, we're going to do this. So when I'm crystal clear on what my macros are, it's easy for me to say no, I can't have that. So what if instead of macros, whatever area that prep work you're talking about, you are so crystal clear on the behaviors that are taking you to where you want to go, that you do only those behaviors. So say, for example, with my podcast, right, like the podcast, I'm not gonna say it's my life. But in a way it kind of is, like it kind of is. So I know, actually, let me put it this way. In my phone, I have an app called done. It's a free app, it's a habit tracker. And inside of there, I've established what my big lifts are, for each area, the prep work. So what is my squat, my bench, my dead? For my purpose? What's my squat, my bench, my dead for my relationships? I forgot, I have one thing for each area that prep work. But I know what those three lifts are for me. So those are the things I'm focused on on a daily basis, I have to hit those things. If I get other things in Sure, that's fine. But I don't need to because I am crystal clear on what is most important. And the less clarity you have on what's most important to like, the more likely you are to do that, which is not important. Okay, I get that.

Philip Pape  57:36

So what about the situation where you haven't been able to crystallize that yet? Because there's so there's so many angles, and potential, quote, unquote, facts and evidence and things and I'll give you I'll be very concrete, somebody, one of my followers, reached out by email and said, You know, I really trust your opinion. But um, here are 10 things that are all different and conflicting, that I'm hearing from influencers, and this doctor and this person, this person about all sorts of things, whatever carbs and keto listen, and they all conflict. And it's like, she, you know, she felt that a lot of them were trustworthy sources. And she's not sure which one to go with. And that's just an example. Like, I gave her clarity. Give me my strong opinion, on which way to go. She's like, Alright, cool, I'm good. But when people are just not sure, from the from day one, they haven't gotten to that point, like I was for 20 years, and the health and fitness space, just didn't know what to do. How do you get that clarity? Right? That's like the premise. Yeah. Okay. So

Carl Berryman  58:40

I'll address two things. The first one, this is what I would say to Carl. Okay, so I'm not necessarily going to say this to your listeners. But I would be sharp. And for me, I would really appreciate it if somebody if I came to you. And I was listing all these things, I would really appreciate because I know myself well enough that this is what I'm doing. I'd appreciate if you said Carl, why do you keep using this as a as an excuse to not take action? Like why are you so afraid to fail? Because I know if I'm const if I'm skipping from one thing to the other? It's because I'm afraid of failure. If I'm if I'm making excuses and finding all these things is too. Now I know which one I don't want to do. It's because I'm just uncomfortable with uncertainty. So I would ask myself, Carl, when are you going to allow yourself to be okay with uncertainty, because we don't know which one of these is going to work like Philips, a brilliant guy, we can take his advice. It might not work for you. But at some point in time, and that time is right fucking now. You're gonna have to make a decision to take action. So ask yourself which one of these feels the best and then be okay. If it doesn't work out, like cool.

Philip Pape  59:50

That's good. Yeah, I agree. But

Carl Berryman  59:54

then the clerical piece of it right? Well, wait, wait

Philip Pape  59:57

so and like you said, if it doesn't work Get out. So all it really comes down to is take action on something, do it test, see if it goes if it doesn't off the list go to the next thing. Yeah. Right. I mean, I mean, granted, you know, you can get complicated and say like certain things are going to be more out there than others and blah, blah, blah. But I can tell when I when I got to 2020. And I started and I found like starting strength and muscle strength pyramids and all of that. And I'm like, Oh, this this new way to lift for me. I also didn't know if it would work. But I'm like, it seems like it should based on what all these people are saying like, these are smart folks. I'm just going to do it. And it worked. And so I stuck with it. Anyway, continue.

Carl Berryman  1:00:35

Know that and that's that's exactly how it goes to. It's like, it's interesting. I was having a conversation with a brother of ours yesterday. And it it had to do with relationships. And what do you do when there's a recurring conflict in your relationship? Like, when do you sweep things under the rug? And when you say, Kay, I know, we don't want to have this conversation, but we need to have it. And the bottom line is, how much does it hurt? Like, how much does the pain of continuing down the path you're going on supersede the pain of taking action to potentially change your trajectory? And the answer to that question will give you the answer that you need. But you don't want to hear. Because we all know we like if you're contemplating taking action on something, you're already at the point where you should have taken action a long time ago. And that's like, that's the way that I look at it's like, Oh, should I have done this? Yeah, of course, you should have done it sooner. So like, they like we always hear better late than never. But let's, let's not even make never an option. Like Jake action.

Philip Pape  1:01:41

Coleman. Good. No, I just wanted to put it out there for people this this is this whole episode, this whole discussion is about that. It's about taking that action. And the only way you do it is identify do it. Identify, do it and then test it. Alright, cool. So you know, you know, you could ask yourself the next question, which is, is Is there anything else you wanted me to ask? That you did cover? Ask?

Carl Berryman  1:02:02

Yeah, I you know, it's funny, as we were talking, I had a good one in my mind. And I should have written it down because I forgot it. Here's a question that, yeah, this is this is coming to me right now. So I'm not sure where this is gonna go. But I'm curious what I would have said, if you asked me, What is the biggest regret you have right now as it relates to your health and fitness? The biggest regret right now in year half of this? Okay. Yeah. And the answer was in my head, before I was even done the sentence, I would have gotten a coach a lot sooner, I would have gotten a coach a lot sooner. Because the transformations that you and again, I'm not Philip didn't sponsor me or anything. This is just what came up the transformations I've been able to make on a multitude of levels as a result of our our friendship, the bond that we have, but then your coaching and your willingness to press me compassionately, have changed, not just my physique. But my relationship with food, my relationship with fitness, like food I, I do food prep almost every single day now, like every day, like it's all I'll do food prep before I go to the gym. And not like schedule wise. But if I have to pick one or the other, I'll do my food prep. And that was like pulling teeth before. But now as a result of tracking my calories, I realized just how important that is. But sure, I can see that my relationship with food and my relationship with fitness is so much better. And I'm enjoying those. And that is not a small feat at all. Because even being a trainer, I would have to drag my ass to the gym a lot of the time now I can't wait to go. But like all that has translated into my relationship with you and my relationship with Jenny Lee specifically, like, I've got Jenny Liam macro factor, she's a lot more conscious about what we're eating. And as a result of me feeling and looking a lot better. That's translated into me being a better podcaster and a better partner for Jenny Lee. So it's stuff that I would tell myself I could have done on my own before, but if I could have done it on my own, I would have done it on my own. So it wasn't until I got a coach.

Philip Pape  1:04:20

It means a lot to me, man. And, and for folks listening. I think they hear this message a lot. And don't take action on it. Do you agree?

Carl Berryman  1:04:30

There's a lot of people like yeah, because I'm the same way like how long did it start me to take me to start doing the shit that you told me to do forever and a day ago and that I already knew I needed to do but then also from from other areas of life as well like I know and there's still places like I could I could be investing way more in a in a business coach. I could be investing way more. Yeah, it would never hurt to have a relationship. Coach like Jalen I really good so I don't know if that sucks. cost benefit ratio would be there. But yeah, if you're constantly on a treadmill to nowhere, and you don't have a coach, the coach is going to tell you to get your ass off the treadmill. And let me show you the real way to walk. So, yeah, yeah,

Philip Pape  1:05:15

it's true. And I think we can't deny that having other people of some kind in our life that are supportive, is kind of where it starts. Right and you have to the coach is that's what a brother is. That's what a friend a really good friend who, who isn't sabotaging you, right, who's positive and with you on that is, that's what a online community could be too. So, you know, because sometimes people hear all their that they are selling a coach and I can't afford a coach. First of all, I would say like, you'll find a way when it comes to money to do things that are the most important in life, and that are going to change your life compared to all the other junk we spending things money on. But besides the money is just don't do it on your own is really the key message. Exactly. Don't do it on your own. Yeah. Cool, man. Well, this has been a pleasure it was every time we meet on this show. It's like it's a very different kind of feel and topic that I think is super valuable to the listener. And I hope everyone listening will take Karl's words and, and actions and thoughts to heart. I want you to reach out to him. I'm definitely going to include Carl's IG, which is at Ignite the impact because remember that the podcast is, hold on. Oh, man, no, because your IG is different than your podcast. So

1:06:28

tell it tell the audience the difference. And so we can be clear, inspired by impact as the podcast is the podcast. I tried to get inspired by impact from my IG and it was taken so it's ignite the impact because when

Philip Pape  1:06:40

I went to IG, you I started typing inspired. I'm like, just type Carl and I

Carl Berryman  1:06:45

should I should have come up with this idea like 10 years ago.

Philip Pape  1:06:47

No worries.

Carl Berryman  1:06:48

Is that where you want people to reach you from this? Yeah, definitely reach out on there. Or you know, what would be kind of cool to see too. I know, at least on Spotify, they have that area where you can like it pops up and you can leave some feedback right there. Right. Like when you're listening to the q&a. Yeah, yeah, q&a. Thanks. So yeah, just ask a question. And if you want, like, I've got the MMU blueprints, if anybody's interested in that, like it's a digital download, just shoot me a message and I'll send it to you. It doesn't cost anything. So we really we have to we have a link for that. Yeah. I'll send you the link for that. Yep. All right. Because people want to know where do I get this this incredible format that they can guide guide them to this exact process? The physical training manual?

Philip Pape  1:07:27

are that the five physical you said you have a digital one? Yeah, yeah, that way I just give it away for free. I don't care so yeah, for sure. So we'll include that we include Reggie will include the link to the podcast as always, you guys know where to find me where to find Carl and man. Thanks again for coming on.

Carl Berryman  1:07:42

Thank you, my man. This was beautiful. As always.

Philip Pape  1:07:46

Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights. Please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong.

Ep 128: My Favorite Gym Things (7 Gifts Under $100)

Are you ready with your gifts for this holiday season? Whether you’re shopping for a fitness enthusiast or someone just starting their fitness journey, I have you covered.

Today, I’m answering a question I get all the time about what equipment is most useful in your gym bag or your home gym, so rather than focus on the big stuff like a power rack or barbell, I put together a budget-friendly list for you just in time for the holidays or any occasion where you’re looking for a gym-related gift or toy to buy.

Stick around for the entire episode because I might have one bonus idea near the end.

Also, I’m not including affiliate links or anything like that because this is more about the equipment itself, the benefits, and how and why you’d use them. But if you want to know what I use in the gym or ideas for you or someone you like, just hit me up on IG  @witsandweights or by email at philip@witsandweights.com.

__________

Click here to apply for coaching!
__________

Today you’ll learn all about:

(2:58) Dip belt (dips, calf-raises, belt squats)
(5:32) Lifting straps (deadlifts, rows, shrugs, pull-ups)
(9:38) Any power rack attachments [multiple in one]
(14:21) 12” box for box squats, step-ups, and others
(16:27) Microplates (BB and DB types)
(19:19) Deadlift jack
(21:15) Wrist wraps (wear them properly!)
(24:15) BONUS
(26:59) Outro

Episode resources:

• Say hi to Philip on IG @witsandweights

• Email at philip@witsandweights.com

👉👉 APPLY FOR COACHING

https://www.witsandweights.com/coaching

👩‍💻👨‍💻 GET A FREE RESULTS BREAKTHROUGH CALL WITH PHILIP
https://witsandweights.com/free-call

The FREE metabolism assessment is available!
Click here to take the assessment and find out how high your energy flux is with a free report and strategy.

📱 Follow Philip on IG @witsandweights
📧 Get Philip's emails here
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Transcript

Philip Pape  00:00

stick around for the entire episode because, in addition to the seven gift ideas, I might just have one more bonus idea near the end has a little twist on it and you'll see what I mean when I get there. Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry, so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in Wits & Weights community Welcome to another solo episode of the Wits & Weights podcast. In our last episode 127 Five fat loss mistakes women need to avoid what to do instead, we talked about why women should think twice before jumping right into a fat loss phase, the five most common fat loss mistakes women make and how to set yourself up for a successful healthy and sustainable fat loss phase. Today for Episode 128, which is going to be a fun one. It's titled My favorite gym things seven gifts under $100. I'm answering a question that I get all the time about what equipment is most useful in your gym bag or your home gym for maybe a gift idea or just something you want to buy for yourself. So rather than focus on the big stuff like a power rack or barbell, which I talked about many moons ago in one of my earliest episodes about setting up your home gym. For today, I put together a budget friendly list for you just in time for the holidays, or any occasion where you're looking for a gym related gift or toy to buy. And I'm wearing my Super Mario shirt that my girls got for me. Because when I was six back in the mid 80s. That was one of the most exciting gifts I got was a Nintendo Entertainment System. For those of you who are into games at all. I'm still a gamer. It's one of the fun things I do for fun on the side to relieve stress, but definitely getting in the spirit of gift giving right now. So stick around for the entire episode because in addition to the seven gift ideas, I might just have one more bonus idea near the end has a little twist on it. And you'll see what I mean when I get there. Also, I'm not including affiliate links, or anything like that in my show notes because this is more about the equipment itself. What are the benefits, how and why you would use this equipment. These are the most useful things that I found among the most useful things in my gym. If you do want to know what I personally use exact brands and Amazon links and stuff like that, or other brands that I use for ideas that you want for yourself or someone who you like or even don't like just hit me up on IG at Wits & Weights or by email at Philip at wits & weights.com all those links are always in the show notes. Alright, let's not waste any more time. Let's get into it. Here are my favorite gym things seven gifts under $100. Gift number one, a dip belt. What I'm talking about here is a what looks like a canvas or sometimes leather strap or belt that you can put about around your waist and it will have some way to cinch it up. And then hanging from that belt will be either a chain or some sort of strap with a hook that you can put into a plate and hang that plate from your body. And so it's called a dip belt because it's designed to add weight while you're doing dips, or dips are the most effective exercises you can have in your routine for your both for your chest and your triceps, there's different angles you can hit them with. And doing loaded dips is a fantastic way to progress the movement when you're working in say the anywhere from eight to 15 rep range and you want to push your press for example is really good at pushing the overhead press for a lot of people when you get plateaued on that movement. So dips are fantastic.

Philip Pape  03:54

I regularly have them in my routine. And you can't go wrong with a dip belt. Now be careful especially for the guys, the the cheaper belts, they might be effective. But sometimes they'll have hooks or chains that hang in the wrong places if you know what I mean. And you got to be careful to avoid pinching in that in that area. But even for the ladies, you know you gotta watch out how it interacts with your clothes if it pinches your clothes and stuff like that. My brother got me one and again, I'm not including specific links, but you can find ones designed like this that the belt straps tight together. And then there's a long Canvas strap with a hook that connects to the other end and so that strap goes into the plate and there's really no chance of pinching whatsoever with that design. So I love it. A dip belt can also be used for things like calf raises. Yeah, if you want to get creative, this is where this stuff I love multi uses for these things. You can hang a bunch of weight from your body and use a power rack and just a calf block or box or whatever wedges and do calf raises with that weight hanging down from you You could even bend forward and do like a donkey Caffrey style movement with a dip belt. The other thing that dip belt is good for is belt squats at home. So if you have two platforms that you can stand on on either under either foot and hang the weight between, you can go down into a squat and have it loaded in a different way in a way that doesn't give you as much low back strain as a typical back squat. Okay, so that's number one dip belt. See, I told you this would be useful episode, it's not just telling you what to get, it's telling you how you can use them. Okay, gift number two lifting straps, and I'm talking about deadlifting straps. Now, there are different types out there, there, everyone has an opinion. When I first started, I got the ones that were figure eight shaped, but quickly found those were not the most effective. So I then moved to the kind that has a single loop. Now you can get the single loop deadlift straps, or you can go even all the way to the kind of hardcore, just a pure strap. And then you have to learn how to wrap it around your hand, which is a little tricky first few times. But there's plenty of videos on that. And honestly, if you're just kind of the average home gym goer, let's say or even if you go to the gym, the kind with a loop can work perfectly well. The way I like to use the lifting straps, and then I'll tell you what I use them on is I will send them to my non dominant hand first and use my dominant hand tighten it, and then tighten it around the bar. And then I'll use my dominant hand and tighten it around the bar, looping the strap with the same hand. So it's hard to describe on a podcast, I know I have video here too, but I'm not going to show it show that to you. You can just reach out to me or again, there's plenty of videos to show you how to use them. If you buy one from like Amazon, for example, there's usually videos that show you how to use a lifting strap. But why I like lifting straps. And again, some people you will hear I think even like the mind pump guys, for example, will say like Yeah, you never really need to use them. I liked them for a few things. First, I liked them for deadlifts when there's a lot of volume involved. So I'm a big fan of not using lifting straps when you're doing your novice linear progression when you're deadlifting for the first time, and trying to build that grip strength. And keep doing that as much as you can like to this day when I do very heavy deadlifts and lower reps, I will do at least one or two sets without the straps. But if I get into like testing my one RM, I might throw the straps on. The other time I would throw on straps is high volume work. So I'm doing if I'm doing you know, 10 sets of four or something like that. I'm not as concerned about the grip strength as just getting in the volume for the deadlift for my legs for my back and so on. So there's no shame in using them. And if they help you avoid the bottleneck of your grip, use them. Now, the caveat to this is, I also encourage you to learn the hook grip. Some people like an alternate grip as well, but I don't like the asymmetry of that. So for me, I like the hook grip, the front facing hook grip for deadlifts, but doing it the right way. And there's a special way to do that. I think I put a YouTube video about this like a couple of years back, but it involves having your thumb out at kind of a parallel to the bar as opposed to up and more across the bar. Anyway, I'm going off on a tangent has nothing to do with the straps themselves. I'm just saying that these are the things that you don't want to just give up and use straps too early. Okay? So lifting straps are good for deadlifts. When you're doing high volume or you know on your second, third, fourth set, whatever. They're also good for movements like barbell rows, for example, anything where you're lifting a heavy bar and you don't want the grip to be the bottleneck, you're actually trying to get back work done. And you don't care about the grip, you're just trying to get all those reps in and really focus on the mind muscle connection and contracting that back and getting the squeeze and, you know, pausing at the top for a split second things like that, that can get bogged down or be harder to do when you're just trying to hold on to the bar. shrugs are another great example both with a barbell and dumbbells or trap bar or whatever you're using for shrugs where you just take the grip out of the equation, you're you're trying to load up as much as you can for those traps. And then the other. The other place I use lifting straps all the time is pull ups. Okay, I don't use them for chin ups, which is the supinated grip palm facing you. I use them for pull ups which is the pronated grip with the palms out right where you just have a wide grip and you're pulling yourself up, classic pull up. I like lifting straps there again, so that the grip doesn't give out before my back is fatigued. I want to fatigue my back when I'm doing those. So there you go. Number two was lifting straps. Number three is this is kind of a multiple gifts in one idea, any power rack attachment. So this is generally going to refer to a home gym. I suspect if you go to a regular gym where you know what the rack dimensions are and they allow you to bring in some sort of attachment great, but this is mainly for a home Jim. And what I'm thinking about here are things like J hooks. So a J hook is the hook that holds the bar when you rack the bar. And, you know, when I first got my power rack, I had one pair that wasn't enough because I wanted to have a couple bars on at a time or I wanted to leave hooks in place. So I didn't have to kind of figure out where they go. And so I might have two or three pairs of hooks all over my rack. So those are J hooks, and there's different designs of those, there's the kind that are just like a small piece jutting out and then they have ones that have like a big back piece against the rack. So when you slam it into the rack, you're not scraping the racks, metal, you're putting it right on the hook, etc. So J hooks, a landmine attachment which can go on the bottom of your rack, right your rack is this big, heavy thing so it can hold the landmine in place. And, you know, a landmine is where you can put the barbell in the in this cylinder down on the floor and then it pivots in all different directions. So you can do things like landmine presses or landmine rows, landmine calf raises whatever. Okay, spotter arms are another great power rack attachment if you if you have say, you know spotter arms or spotter pins depending right like pins are good, because they go kind of inside the rack but spotter arms can be put outside the rack, giving you more versatility. Again, for safety, you want to have spotter arms, whenever you don't have a human spotter and there's an opportunity, you might miss a rep and you need to set the weight down. And then another one I love is dip attachments, you can get either the separate attachments, those are the ones I have that I like because when I say separate I mean there's there's one for the right one for the left, and they kind of go at a diagonal angle so that you can pick the width of your dip grip, because everybody has different anthropometry, right like your fit your body is different. So like a smaller a petite female might need to go up to where it's really close together. And then really big guy might need to go where it's farther apart. So I like that now, a less flexible version of a dip attachment is called a matador. And that's a single attachment where it comes out at a diagonal, and you can do your dips inside the diagonal, I find that it doesn't have quite as much width outward for me. But that's just me. So this was number three is pretty much any attachment that goes into power rack. The caveat here is you got to understand the size of your rack and the spacing of the holes. So for example, I have a small two inch by two inch, right, I wish I had a bigger one or rogue or something. But it's the one I've had since I started lifting and it works just fine. But it's two inch by two it so I need to buy two inch attachments. And if I buy one that isn't made by the manufacturer of my rack, the hole spacing may not work. And so some attachments, it doesn't matter. Like it just has one peg that goes in one hole, then it doesn't matter how it spaced others though, might have two pegs, for example. And then of course, it won't fit if it's not designed for that space. So if you have a well made rack that has their own brand of attachments, that's always a good approach. So think ahead when you get your rack but otherwise there's there's plenty of generic attachments that will still work with most racks. So I think yeah, that's those are the ones I can pick up for that.

Philip Pape  13:17

Hey, this is Philip. And I hope you're enjoying this episode of Wits & Weights, I started Wits & Weights to help people who want to build muscle lose fat and actually look like they lift. I've noticed that when people improve their strength and physique, they not only look and feel better, they transform other areas of their life, their health, their mental resilience and their confidence in everything they do. And since you're listening to this podcast, I assume you want the same things the same success, whether you recently started lifting, or you've been at this for a while and want to optimize and reach a new level of success. Either way, my one on one coaching focused on engineering your physique and body composition is for you. If you want expert guidance and want to get results faster, easier, and with fewer frustrations along the way to actually look like you lift, go to wits & weights.com and click on coaching or use the link in my show notes to apply today. I'll ask you a few short questions to decide if we're a good fit. And if we are, we'll get you started this week. Now back to the show. Gift number four is getting a 12 inch plyo box plyo meaning plyometrics meaning jumping, but this is not for plyometrics. I'm not going back to CrossFit here, a 12 inch box I like 12 inches and not 18 inches, for example because 12 inches for most people will allow you to get into a below parallel squat when you're doing box squats. So if you haven't progressed to that point, if let's say you're brand new and you have mobility issues and you're using boxes to progress to your squat, and you're at a high box now and you're eventually going to get to a low box. The 12 inch box is the ultimate goal. right to get you below parallel, and it's also low enough that if you need it a little bit higher, you can always put it on a 45 pound plate, for example, or put it on a mat to bring it up a little bit. But if it's too high, if you buy too high of a box, you can't lower it, right. So definitely get that 12 inch box, I have one that's metal, and it has like a rough textured, kind of reminds me of like sandpaper or stucco or it's very nice, high friction, textured top, which is you know, no, no slip top. And I use it for box squats. I use it for step ups. So like if you do barbell or dumbbell step ups, you could do it for CAP music for calf raises. So think of a step, but now you're up, you know, decently high height. So you've you can go deep in the stretch at the bottom. And then you could use it as a platform to get up onto things. So if you if you're kind of short, and you need to get up to the pull up bar, you could use it to get yourself set up or to get up and do you know hanging leg raises, or I don't know anything, just use it as a step, right. So I really love having a box. Now if you get a second box, you could then do the belt squats that I talked about with your dip belt. Okay, I actually don't even have a second box, I keep thinking I should just get another box. So I have that option. So maybe that's that's a gift that I will be asking for here. All right, so that's the 12 inch plyo box. And I like the trapezoid shape. By the way, I feel like it's just more structurally sturdy, like it's not going to tip over. Alright, gift number five is microplates Oh, these are super useful, okay, microplates, both for barbells. And dumbbells. Even if you go to a gym, there's a decent chance they will not have these, they might have the two and a half pound plates, which are def a definite must, okay, in any gym so that you can go up by five pounds. But what I'm talking about are the little plates that are in increments of a quarter a half, three quarters and one usually maybe also one and a quarter pounds. So that you can get you know, when you double it, you get, say a two pound jump or two and a half pound jump or a one pound jump. So it's a way to increment and progress on a barbell in much smaller increments. That's the barbell microplates. And those are simple. They just look like you know, smaller disks, small plates with the two inch hole in the middle dumbbell microplates. There are a lot of different types of those. I've talked about these wax I don't know if I have on the podcast, I did a video long time ago. But you could get either the magnetic type that will go on a cast iron dumbbells and they just snap on, or the ones I like are the thereby micro gains. And I have no affiliation. And I think Gaines has a z there. These discs that look they remind you of like Pac Man, but they actually don't really have as open of a mouth as Pac Man. And they snap right on to the handle of the dumbbell. And so you could get two pairs of one and a quarter pound each. And if you do the math, one and a quarter plus one and a quarter is two and a half pounds. Now you can take a dumbbell add two of those plates and you get an increase of two and a half pounds. Since in the gym, most dumbbells go five pounds at a time, right? You go from 10 to 15 to 20 to 25. Well, if you are going from 10 pound dumbbells to 15 pound dumbbells, that's a 50% increase. That's a lot. Even though you know you can say oh, they're only 10 pound dumbbells, but it's all relative. So adding those microplates will let you go up from 10 to 12 and a half, and then eventually to 15. And they snap right on. And if you have adjustable dumbbells, some people find that when you put these microplates on the handle on the inside of the weights, it's too tight of a squeeze for your hand. Like my wife tried this out and she was fine with it because she has smaller hands, but for me it like squeezes both sides of my hand. The trick there is to simply snap the microplates on to an empty part of where the discs are. So again, we're talking adjustable dumbbells, you're going to have like empty slots when you take the dumbbell out. Unless you're at the max weight in which case you're probably not going to need the microplates you can use you can snap it right on to the to the spindle if that makes sense. Where were the one of the empty slots is that's the way I've done it. So microplates can be hugely helpful in not making excuses about why you can't progress your weight. Okay, number six is a deadlift Jack now I think I heard about this first from Juji MUFA right crazy guy you don't know who that is look him up but anyway I think and the one he used was this fancy name brand one that looks like a hook and everything I was cheap I just went again online and just like googled it and found a cheap deadlift Jack whatever works folks right like it perfect is always the enemy of the good. So if you want the whiz bang more expensive one and it's a little more convenient, go for it. If you've got the money great if not any deadlift Jack will work the way a deadlift Jack works. It's very simple. You can position it under the barbell and just push it flip it up in kind of angle it up just like a jack like as if you're jacking the car up to change the tire, but it's not hydraulic or anything, it's just a simple wedge, if you will, that's at an angle that when it's under the bar the bars just above the ground. And now you can put the plates on the bar without having to shimmy them on, or, you know, all the fun dances that we do trying to get a plate on the bar for deadlift, we're like scooching, and holding it with one arm and kind of jimmying it on. This just holds it up in the air, you know, few more inches clears it from the ground, so you can slide plates on. And then you can bloop. Like, you know, drop the jack now, you know, get your foot out of the way, drop the track down, do it on the other side, same thing. And then when you're all done now when you've got your four or five or 495 pounds, right, because you've been progressing your deadlift, and you've got 440 fives on each side, you can just stick that Jack in again, and then slide him right off without all the the crazy dancing. Okay, so deadlift Jack, you might find you might not have ever thought of it before, but it can be an extremely useful piece of equipment, anytime you have to load up a heavy barbell on the ground. Okay, give number seven. Now this is the last gift, but then I didn't I hinted before, I'm probably gonna have a little bonus gift in here. Gift number seven is wrist wraps. So this is different from lifting straps when we're lifting straps. I don't know if I thoroughly described what the heck they were earlier. But lifting straps allow you to put straps around a bar and have a better grip, you know, with the bar. So you can avoid slippage wrist wraps, they actually wrap around your wrist just like they sound and most of them have a little loop that goes on your thumb. And then you can start to wrap it around. Now the biggest mistake people make and I made this myself for a long time is they will wrap it around their wrist and you're like wasn't at the point, well, where on your wrist are you wrapping it, most people will start to wrap it where the base of their hand meets their wrist, you actually want to wrap it where part of the wrap is over the base of your palm. So it should clamp practically clamp up your thumb to your hand when you wrap it nice and tight. Where it's like a little cast so that it's connecting your hand to your wrist. And they cannot pick they cannot bend like you don't want to be able to bend your hand. That's the whole point of wrist wraps, wrist wraps, keep your wrist neutral beach from your you know your fingers all the way through to your forearm. So when you wrap them, and again, you could probably Google this, but there might be a lot of people that are telling you the wrong way to do it, you want to you want to wrap nice and tight up a lot higher than you think. So that it kind of closes in your thumb against your hand. And now you've got these leg, okay, you can move your fingers, we can't really move your thumb type of deal. And so what that lets you do is when you get under the bar for a bench press or an overhead press, let's say or even dumbbell bench presses, you know, you you keep a nice neutral angle, so that all the load is transferred through your arm to where it needs to go. Instead of extending your wrists like a lot of people mistakenly do. And now you're putting force, you're creating a moment arm that makes the lift much harder, increases chance of injury, it puts the load in the wrong place. Okay,

Philip Pape  23:17

so the neutral wrist with wrist straps really help you kind of get a feel for okay, this is how I do it. And then you're going to find like in the bench press and overhead press that your fingernails are now facing more forward. That's one of the cues I learned early on when I was overhead pressing is fingernails, looking at the wall, like fingernails staring at the wall. If they're staring at the ceiling, your your wrist is probably to extend it. For some people this is going to feel like the bar is going to like maybe slip forward but there's a sweet spot where it's sitting right on the base of your palm and transferring that load where it needs to be. So it's wrist wraps can help with that proprioception as they call it. Like I said that right? And I still use them. I like the feel of them. I like to feel like it's just the solid structure. And I feel like I can get just a tiny bit more weight on the bar that way. Okay, so that's number seven. So we had number one dip belt, number two lifting straps, number three power rack attachments number 412 inch box number five microplates number six, deadlift, Jack, number seven wrist wraps. And now I have a bonus number eight for you and it is a food scale. You're like really had to do it right you had to go there a food scale only because only to imply that nutrition is always a big part of your strategy here when it comes to strength, muscle health, fitness, physique, body composition, all of it. And we just never want to forget the fact that what we put in our mouth has a huge impact on our results in our performance. And if you don't have a Food Scale. And you've been listening to me and you know the importance of tracking and awareness. What are you waiting for this is the perfect time get it as a gift. They run the gamut in terms of price, he gets super duper cheap Home Depot food scales, and you get big fancy ones that have removable displays and special bowls and whatever, you know, have fun with it, right like experiment get to get three, I have three food scales, I have a big fancy one. I have a little one for kind of the the table to the side, like the snack table, just for convenience. And then I have a tiny travel food scale, which I rarely use, I'll be honest, but if I ever want to pop it in my jacket or pocket, it's there if I need to use it. So food scale is the bonus item for your gym. Because again, the gym, you know only means so much when you are not fueling properly and when you are fueling properly, then your results go through the roof. Alright, I hope you enjoyed the list that I put together for you. And as always, you can reach out to me anytime at any of the links in the show notes if you have questions about these. Any other questions for the podcast? I do occasional q&a episodes. Or if you just want to chat about what's going on with your health and fitness journey. I love meeting people I love having honest authentic conversations. So if you just want to bounce ideas off me if you want to share what you're going through, I'm all ears. I'm here for you anytime you need it. In our next episode 129 Why passively consuming my podcast is getting you nowhere with Carl Berryman. Carl is back for his third appearance, this time to talk about how to implement the content you're consuming to integrate it into your life. Rather than being a bystander and constantly binging podcast without taking action and you know who you are. So many of us do that. He'll share his mental muscle up formula that I will be using myself over the next few weeks. So you can do this yourself. As always stay strong. And I'll talk to you next time here on the Wits & Weights podcast. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights, please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then stay strong

Ep 127: 5 Fat Loss Mistakes Women Need to Avoid (What To Do Instead)

Are you struggling to achieve your fat loss goals? You might be making one of these common mistakes!

Today, we will go over why females should think twice before jumping right into a fat loss phase, the 5 most common fat loss mistakes women make, and how to set yourself up for a successful, healthy, and sustainable fat loss phase.

Two-thirds of my clients are female, and most of them are over 35, putting them squarely in the peri- and post-menopause phases where hormones become an even more sensitive factor during fat loss, though it doesn’t have to be a deal-breaker.

I wanted to create this episode to focus specifically on aspects like low energy availability, carbs, and even the discomfort of change that comes up most frequently with my female clients and listeners.

You can grab my totally free guide called “FEMALE FAT LOSS” now available HERE or at witsandweights.com/free. It’s a nicely organized summary of all the topics discussed on today’s show as a reminder of what’s important, mistakes to avoid, and how to approach successful fat loss.

Episode summary:

In this podcast episode, we delve into the world of sustainable fat loss, specifically tailored for women. Many women fall prey to the common misconception that drastic calorie cuts and quick-fix diets are the answer to weight loss. We're here to debunk this myth and show that a sustainable approach to nutrition is the key to successful fat loss.

The journey to sustainable fat loss starts with a body recomp phase, focusing on muscle building and boosting metabolism before fat loss even begins. This counters the typical dieting pitfalls many fall into, opting for quick fixes rather than embracing healthy change.

A crucial point we cover is the danger of extreme calorie restriction. While it may seem logical that less food equates to weight loss, extreme calorie restriction can do more harm than good. Instead, we guide you towards a healthier approach, focusing on foods high in nutrient density.

Micronutrient deficiencies are a common problem during a fat loss journey. Incorporating a range of nutrient-dense foods into your diet can help combat this issue. But it's not just about what you eat; addressing potential underlying health issues, like hormone imbalances, is crucial before embarking on any fat loss plans.

Hormones play a vital role in fat loss, and we dedicate a significant portion of the episode to this topic. The Macro Factor App, which we discuss, is an excellent tool to help you track your food intake and optimize hormone production. In addition to using tech aids, we explore natural approaches to hormone optimization, such as stress reduction and improved sleep quality.

We offer a free guide to female fat loss, to help you redefine your relationship with food and set the stage for successful, sustainable fat loss. This guide complements the information provided in the podcast, making the process of sustainable fat loss easier to understand and implement.

Remember, the path to successful fat loss has nothing to do with drastic calorie cuts and more to do with a sustainable approach to nutrition!

__________

Click here to apply for coaching!
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Today you’ll learn all about:

[2:47] Low energy availability
[8:01] Training fasted
[12:28] The 5 nutrition mistakes women make before  a fat loss phase
[26:06] How to have a successful fat loss phase
[42:55] Hormonal imbalances can cause fat loss plateaus
[45:34] Proper food tracking
[49:19] Get a coach or join the community
[53:27] Outro

Episode resources:

• Female Fat Loss Guide (free)

• Jeremiah Bair's podcast: Living Lean

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Transcript

Philip Pape  00:00

This is maybe the most important for getting a setup for fat loss for everybody really, but females especially, is doing a body recon phase, doing a primer phase doing a prep phase, a pre diet, maintenance phase, whatever you want to call it, spending about four to eight weeks before fat loss on a few key behaviors and routines or habits or systems, whatever you want to call them. Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in. Wits & Weights

Philip Pape  00:51

community Welcome to another solo episode of the Wits & Weights podcast in our last episode 126 more carbs, more muscle why low carb and keto are keeping you skinny fat. I discussed all the reasons a moderate to high carb diet is essential. If your goal is to build muscle get stronger, improve your body composition get leaner and make fat loss easier. Today, as promised, for episode 127 Five fat loss mistakes women need to avoid what to do instead, we will go over why females in particular should think twice before jumping right into a fat loss phase. The five most common fat loss mistakes women make and how to set yourself up for a successful healthy and sustainable fat loss phase. Now two thirds of my clients are female. Most of them are over 35 Putting them squarely in the Peri and post menopause phases where hormones become an even more sensitive factor during fat loss, though they do not have to be a deal breaker. And I wanted to create this episode to focus specifically on aspects like low energy availability, carbs, and even the discomfort of change that come up most frequently with my female clients and listeners. Last thing before I jump in, I did create a new and totally free guide called female fat loss now available at the link in my show notes or at wits & weights.com/free. It's a nicely organized summary of all the topics discussed on today's show. As a reminder of what's most important, what mistakes to avoid and how to approach successful fat loss. Again, just click the link in my show notes, or go to wits & weights.com/free, to download the female fat loss guide. With that, let's get into today's topic five fat loss mistakes women need to avoid and what to do instead losing body fat. It's often seen as an aesthetic goal. But we have to understand that for women especially there are additional considerations here regarding your health, your hormones, your performance that needs to be factored in, I'm all for going after the physique that you want the dream body, whatever it is. And at the end of the day, we all want to have a healthy level of body fat. We want to look and feel our best. But we do have to understand the unique considerations that come into play. Now every individual is different regardless. But there are some differences between men and women. I wanted to focus exclusively on women today. So approaching fat loss with realistic expectations. And a plan. An appropriate plan is really the key here. And before I dive into these, I do want to give a shout out and give credit words do I want to give a shout out to Jeremiah bear of the living lien podcast for inspiring this topic because he had Brandon to cruise on who by the way, was on the show twice before. And they did a female fat loss series it was something like six or seven episodes very detailed if you want to go check those out. And I definitely borrowed generously from some of the key points, as well as my own experience and working with female clients. But I wanted to give a shout out to them. And I'll include a link to that. I'll include a link to Jeremiah's podcast in this episode. And I'll go ahead and tag him. So he knows, give him a shout out. All right, let's start by talking about how fat loss especially when done aggressively affects women in particular, and why you should avoid just jumping into a fat loss phase before you're ready. We want to be ready for fat loss. So it's not just another crash diet. So there's really three big things here that I want to talk about. The first is that females you know women are more susceptible to the negative effects of low energy availability and calorie restriction. This is probably the biggest one. Many women are walking around for years and years and years in a state of low energy availability. I just talked to a client this morning on her check in a longer term client who she told me you know After, after she was done with her fat loss phase and she went back to maintenance. I was asking her to eat a little bit more than that, like, not just exactly at maintenance, but a little bit more, because I felt like her body needed to recover, and wasn't getting the opportunity to do that. And she's like, Well, I really want to maintain my results, I don't want to gain too much weight, I'm just going to kind of stick around maintenance for a while I said, Okay, you can do that. But just just understand that I think you'll get better performance and quicker recovery, if you just kind of pop above that threshold for a bit. And recently, she did that. And lo and behold, everything just started to improve, right? Her performance, her hormones, her even her menstrual cycle, her sleep, stress, just the psychology of it, everything. And you may be walking around in a state of low energy availability, not even knowing it thinking that, okay, because I've maintained my body weight, I'm eating what I need. No, it could be that your body is simply in that purgatory, and that no man's land in between, you know, full energy availability and a diet where you're losing weight, we're actually what's happening is you are in a very, very, very, very slight deficit. And so it doesn't even look like you're, you're losing weight. And every time you get a pop on the scale, because of a little extra carbs, you freak out, right, tell me this doesn't sound like a familiar story. So being in that state of low energy availability, it's going to cause a perpetual disruption to your hormones, it can cause issues with your cycle, it can decrease your bone mineral density, everything gets downregulated. Because your body says, well, you're giving me 90% Of what I need, but not 100%. So guess what, I'm gonna dock everything by 10%. And I might dock certain things more than others. And you have a higher risk, the deeper you go have what they call red s right, which is relative energy deficiency syndrome. In all honesty, that tends to be in the more extreme cases, when you're severely in a deficit, I'm just talking about being in an unintentional deficit constantly. That's the big thing. So if you are in that state, if you feel like things are not right, things are foggy. Maybe it's my hormones, maybe it's because of my age, whatever reason you tell yourself, and you're doing a lot of other things, right, like your strength training, for example, and keeping the stress moderate, it could simply be that you're not eating enough. And I know, I know, it's a simple thing. And you've probably heard people say, Well, you need to reverse diet and eat more food. I'm not a fan of reverse dieting, I'm a fan of knowing exactly where your metabolism stands, and then eating just slightly above that level. So that you have all the energy you need, and you feel great and you perform great, but you don't really gain any weight. And if you do gain weight, it's going to be the most infinitesimal amount of weight over many, many, many, many months, which is easy to cut off in a very short period of time with a fat loss phase. Okay, so that's the first one is understanding that you may be in low energy availability, and that females are even more susceptible to this because of your hormonal situation relative to men. The second thing is training fasted. All right, a lot of your training fasted. I'm going to suggest that you try training with some food in your stomach and seeing what the difference is, I'm not going to say oh, it's better. We're gonna say let you decide that for yourself. But training, fasted does a number of things, it increases your cortisol, believe it or not, it increases your cortisol, okay, it increases muscle breakdown, it can impair your workout performance and recovery, you definitely have the risk of other hormonal issues down the road if you train fasted for a long time, and training intensely while fast, it seems to exacerbate these effects. So before you even go to a fat loss phase, I would want you to evaluate how you train when you train and the timing of your food. Sometimes when people ask me about meal timing, they're looking to optimize and I'll tell them, you know, that's not as important as getting enough protein and getting enough food. But in other cases, if you're for example, training fasted and you literally are just not eating around your workout, that can have a much bigger effect. Like even if you aren't getting enough food and protein the rest of the day, the training fasted piece, especially for females can be detrimental and backfire before you've even gone into a fat loss phase. So I want you to strongly consider that it might be more beneficial to have a banana and a protein shake an hour before you workout, right? It doesn't have to be anything huge. It can be a bowl of oatmeal, right? Mainly protein and carbs and little to no fat and you're good. Um, the third thing that I wanted to mention here with regards to why women would avoid aggressive fat loss or going into a fat loss phase before you're ready, is and this is maybe the most important for getting a setup for fat loss for at for everybody really but females especially is doing a body recon phase, doing a primer phase doing a prep phase, a pre diet, maintenance phase, whatever you want to call it. I'm spending about four to eight weeks before fat loss on a few key behaviors and routines or habits or systems, whatever you want to call them. And they include the following number one, building some muscle. Now this could be building muscle and body recomp phase, or this could be spending a longer period of time actually building muscle, even in a surplus. But, but best case, or worst case, doing it at maintenance calories in what we call a recomp. And for those of you interested, we are doing the let me see what does this episode come out, it might already be happening, but we're doing our body recomp challenge in December. But regardless, that's just like a kickstart. For three weeks, a real recon phase should take anywhere from like four to eight weeks, sometimes longer. And that's definitely the phase that I take my clients through first, before we do a fat loss phase. You're trying to address the metabolic issues, the hormonal issues, the the lack of fuel, the things like fasted training, you want to make sure you're lifting heavy that you're lifting the right number of days per week for you and not doing too much, not doing too much cardio, making sure you're getting enough steps, making sure you're hydrated, making sure you're getting enough protein. It's all of those things, right. And I don't mean to overwhelm you by saying like, you've got to fix 20 things all at once. What I'm trying to suggest here is taking that four to eight weeks to slowly add in one to three of these tiny habits a week so that by the end of the 40 weeks, you're in a great state for fat loss, rather than jumping right in, they want no I gotta lose a fat, what do I do? Oh, calorie deficit, let's do it. And then all these things are way off where they need to be. The fat loss phase is not going to be successful. And it's just another crash diet. Just give me another yo yo diet. All right. There's things like improving your relationship with food, thinking of food as a fuel that serves you that aligns with your goals that that helps your performance. Eating for satiety, like all of all of these skills that we've developed in a body recomp, or pre fat loss phase are extremely important to address before we go on to fat loss. Okay, so I just wanted to lay all that out first, just so you know that this is a long game, that we want to take this the right way we want to do it sustainably. And if you work with me as a coach, or if you're one of my challengers or even in the Wits, & Weights Facebook community, you'll see these themes come up time and again. And we can help you get to that point we can put in place some of those foundational habits. All right. So now I want to cover the five big nutrition mistakes that most women make. So you can avoid these when you're setting up your fat loss phase. Now, we all love odd numbers. We like fives, we like lists. Could I have done seven? Could I have done three? Could I have done 10? Of course. But I spent some time on this. And I think these five come up the most often? Or could be the most helpful. All right. So you know beyond what we just talked about, like not taking this overly aggressive approach and just jumping in? What are the common pitfalls that women run into? All right. The first one is really about behavior, psychology, it's getting stuck in old habits and being unwilling to change and accept the discomfort that is inevitable. When you're going after a transformation like this. Yes, this is the long game. Yes, this is your life. But you also have been stuck for years doing something that hasn't worked. And even when it quote unquote, worked in the short term like you lost a bunch of weight, you gain it back, didn't you? And when you lost the weight, did you have the physique and the health that you wanted? I'm pretty sure the answer is no, you probably lost muscle. Right? Doing it the right way is going to get you the results. But it requires a little bit of discomfort. And so I actually talked recently in the podcast about getting about pushing your comfort zone into the expanded comfort zone and being willing to change. But you don't have to change so much that it feels overwhelming, right? None of these diets you've done in the past work. They don't work for a reason. They don't work because they're not sustainable. They're not flexible. They don't work with you and your lifestyle. Wouldn't you rather live in the identity of a person who enjoys her life and enjoys what you eat, and never feels guilty about it? Right? And so accepting that change is inevitable, but also realizing that the cost of that change is far less. In fact, it's a basement bargain, compared to the cost of not changing and continuing to do what you've always done. So for some reason, especially, there's a difference I see between men and women when it comes to this kind of thing. I you know, not sure what it is. And I'm not going to dissect that because every individual is different even within that spectrum. But I think this is maybe the number one pitfall is just not being willing to accept change. Now if you're working with a coach like if you work with me, you've already shown that you are open until that kind of change and are willing to listen and an experiment, I've seen many people who don't work with a coach, or they're looking for a quick out, or the answer, right? They'll send me a question like, What do I do for this? I just want the answer. And then even if I give them a suggestion or an answer, it's like, well, I don't want to do this. Because this, this, this. And there's always excuses, right? If you are making excuses, step back and ask yourself, whether it's an excuse, or just a reason not to change. Okay, two different things. All right. So that's the first one. All right, I told you tough love today, a little bit of tough love. Because we all we all want to hear this sometimes. And we know we know what it takes. And it's, it's not that hard, it just takes a little bit of a little bit of change and discomfort. Alright, number two, the second big pitfall or mistake is the yo yo dieting, which is yo yo dieting on the large scale weekend dieting on a short scale. And either way, it's a form of a Yo yo, it's an up and down pattern. And this up and down pattern results in what I mentioned earlier, have low energy availability. So it's this metabolic whiplash, where you think that when you're on the downside of it, right, when you're quote, unquote, in the diet, the dial is turned on, I'm going all after I'm using my discipline and willpower, you think that, okay, now I'm going to be losing the fat or the weight or whatever. And it might happen in the short term, and then you gain it back and then have the short term gain back and then you hit a plateau. And you constantly feel like you're dieting, and yet you get nowhere, and things get worse and your body composition gets worse, and you get weaker, and the hormones get worse and the sleep gets worse and sleep gets worse. Does this sound familiar? Does this sound familiar? And so on the short scale, what might be happening is very simple. You may be Monday through Friday, sticking to that diet, Saturday, off the rails, and I'm using terms that are kind of the standard conventional terms. And when you are taking the right approach to fat loss, and you're taking a sustainable approach, no longer are you going to have, you know, sticking to it, stayin on track, getting off track off the wagon, none of that, because it's not so rigid. But what you've done before is rigid. And so Monday through Friday, you're like a machine, you're rigid, you're perfect, quote unquote. And then Saturday, I'm not going to track today, I'm going to go out with my friends, I'm going to have just everything right, the alcohol, the appetizers, the deserts. And before you know it, you've over consumed by 2000 calories. But because you're not tracking, you don't know what your metabolism is, you don't even know what your exact, you know, weekly calories need to be to get where you want to go. You're not in touch with their hunger signals, because you eat like a monk during the week. And then you eat like, you know, a queen or whatever. I was trying to think of like, kind of a gluttonous I was thinking of a king really. But then I thought, Okay, this is about women. So what's the analogy, but you get what I'm trying to say. So that happens on a weekly basis. And then on a monthly or yearly basis, you're doing these like strict diets for three months. And then you're just ravenous for carbs and sugar and fats and you over consume and you binge and you get it all back. And before long, you weigh more than you did before and more of it as fat than muscle. And the irony, I guess it's ironic is that you have been in a low energy state the vast majority of that time, and yet it still hasn't gotten you anywhere. Because the net energy balance has not been favorable. But the majority of the days you've been suffering in this low energy state. Right? Does that make sense? So when you're hearing this, you're like, Oh, you're speaking to me, like, I'm constantly feeling like I'm dieting and I'm not making progress is because you're not actually in a consistent energy deficit for fat loss. You're probably not doing a lot of the other things to him, but that's okay. We'll talk about that. And you're offsetting those.

Philip Pape  18:52

Any progress you do have with the yo yo aspect of it. So we're gonna stop doing that. But that's number two. Number three, cutting calories too aggressively. Very simple. Most of these diets whether it's keto, carnivore or whatever, even Weight Watchers doesn't matter. Are the really bad ones like Octavia Octavia? Yeah. Really rely on the simple energy balance equation, right calories in calories out. And yeah, you're gonna lose weight if you just starve yourself. But you're gonna get a lot worse than that you're gonna lose a bunch of muscle, you're going to dramatically slow down your metabolism. You're gonna ramp up your cortisol and get super stressed, you're gonna shoot down your performance in the gym, you're not even be able to build and hit your lifts. You're not going to feel like going to the gym, right? And you're gonna do what's called a crash diet. You're gonna lose muscle, you're gonna get hungry, you're gonna binge it all back. Same idea. It's kind of tied in with the yo yo, yo yo dieting. And so this is why we want to understand our calorie intake. We want to understand our metabolism. And we want to understand how much weight we are losing every week like body fat and Body Weight wise, so that we can stay within a reasonable rate of loss, which you've may have heard me say before, but I'll just reiterate is 1% of your body weight per week, that's the maximum you would want to lose. And most of these crash diets, you'll, you'll, you'll lose 40 pounds in a month, which just do the math and based on whatever you weighed before, that's probably like, you know, three or 4% of your body weight a week, it's insane. You're losing so much muscle doing that, actually, a lot of what you're losing initially is just fluid, but then you're losing a bunch of muscle, it's not what we want. Okay, number four, mistake, mistake number four, avoiding or restricting carbs. Yes, you know, I was gonna say this. So number, the earlier things we talked about related to just restriction overall, and, you know, not being willing to change cutting calories too aggressively. And I'm not even mentioned protein, as one of the five Believe it or not, believe it or not, I'm not, because for some reason, that ends up being something a lot of women get, find out pretty quickly that they need to do and then they start to increase it. If they are focused on it. We're talking about carbs. Okay, and I talked all about this on the last episode, so I'm not going to rehash everything. But by eating too few carbs, you are impairing your, your performance, you are impairing your muscle growth. Yes, carbs are needed for muscle growth, not just protein. For a lot of reasons that I talked about in the last episode. Carbs are protein sparing in so many amazing ways. Not having enough carbs means you're going to disrupt your hormones, you know, increasing your carbs, I've seen time and again, have improved hormone production, testosterone, for example, reducing cortisol helping with your insulin sensitivity, believe it or not, okay, it sounds counterintuitive. You increase carbs, you get more insulin, you combine that with strength training, better utilizing the insulin, you're more insulin sensitive, and now easier to lose fat because you have more carbs. And now if that's not the opposite of what so many influencers are saying, you know, tell me I'm wrong. Right? That's that's exactly the opposite of what a lot of these influencers, say when they say carbs will make you fat, carbs from ride fuel, they help with recovery, they support muscle growth, muscle building, optimize hormones, all the things. So that's Mistake number four is just not having enough carbs. We all have these have an asterisk behind them. And that is, if it's right for you. But what I'm sharing here are the pitfalls that affect the vast majority of women who are having trouble with this. And I will never say you have to do this or have to do that. What I'm suggesting is that many women are restricting carbs unnecessarily, and having more carbs would help them with all these things. And once they introduce the carbs, voila, a lot of these problems go away. Okay, mistake number five, is neglecting nutrient density. So we talked about flexible dieting, and we talked about diets or good and bad foods and these restrictive diets, and it's always about the foods themselves. The thing is, you can eat any food, if it serves your goals. The question is, will it especially for fat loss. Also serve your health, serve your satiety, serve your digestion, serve your performance, like once you add all the list of things where we want to improve with what we eat, we realize it's not about specific foods. It's about the density of those foods, the nutrient density of those foods, which ends up being primarily Whole Foods, but not a restrictive list of Whole Foods, all Whole Foods, meats, you know, eggs, seafood, dairy, all the plants, grains, starches, right? Fruits, vegetables, seeds, nuts, all of it is okay. Right? Unless you have an intolerance or something like that, or just don't like it. It's all okay, and having a diverse food matrix. A diverse diet will improve your chance of not having micronutrient deficiencies, and improving all these other things, hormone production, thyroid function, metabolism, digestion, and the list goes on and on and on. Right. So instead of like cutting out carbs, and now all of a sudden you're eating just meat, and you're missing out on all these other nutrients and dense foods that will fill you up and so on. Have a diverse diet. Okay, so we're going to talk about that. Some of the details when we talk about specifics for fat loss at the end, or actually shortly. But what I wanted to do here was establish you know, when it is appropriate for women to consider fat loss and in the mistakes women make so you can look for those as you're going through this process. Now, I want to lay out exactly how to execute a successful fat loss phase, the moment you've all been waiting for. And remember, you don't have to write all this down because I created a free guide called female fat loss that covers everything in today's show. Just click the link in my show notes for the free female fat loss guide or go to Wits. & Weights dot dot com slash free. Hey, this is Philip. And I hope you're enjoying this episode of Wits & Weights, I started Wits & Weights to help people who want to build muscle lose fat and actually look like they lift. I've noticed that when people improve their strength and physique, they not only look and feel better, they transform other areas of their life, their health, their mental resilience and their confidence in everything they do. And since you're listening to this podcast, I assume you want the same things the same success, whether you recently started lifting, or you've been at this for a while and want to optimize and reach a new level of success. Either way, my one on one coaching focused on engineering your physique and body composition is for you. If you want expert guidance and want to get results faster, easier, and with fewer frustrations along the way to actually look like you lift, go to wits & weights.com, and click on coaching, or use the link in my show notes to apply today. I'll ask you a few short questions to decide if we're a good fit. And if we are, we'll get you started this week. Now back to the show.

Philip Pape  26:06

Okay, women, you are looking to drop fat in a healthy sustainable way, what do you need to do. So I have a decent list here of things and again, so that you're not overwhelmed, you may just want to go download the free guide where I summarize all of this stuff kind of in CliffsNotes style. And you can re listen to the episode along with it, make notes, all that good stuff. At the end of the day, what's important is that you take action, whatever that action is, I would take one action today based on this podcast episode, that is based on how you were inspired by the show and what you are not doing that you want to do. Okay, first. So this is gonna sound What is this gonna, this is gonna sound counterintuitive, or a cop out. The first thing to do for successful fat loss phase is don't do a fat loss phase build muscle first. That's the first thing. I'm not even talking about the prep phase, I'm talking about the opposite of a fat loss phase going into a very slight surplus, a lean gain phase, where you just pack on your first you know, 1015 pounds of muscle over the next six to 12 months, having more muscle is going to boost your metabolic rate. You're going to be lifting heavier, you're going to be building that strength, building that muscle, improving your hormones, improving your insulin sensitivity, all these things, it's going to basically shift everything toward a metabolically healthier state so that when you do fat loss, it's even easier. Yeah, you're delaying the fat loss. But you're going to thank me for it, you're going to be thankful that you went through that process of building muscle first. So that's the first thing but now I'm going to get the rest of these are okay, fine. I got it. Philip, I need to build muscle. But I really damn, I just really want to build lose fat right now. Okay. So again, assuming you've done all the other things we talked about and are not making the mistakes, what should you be doing? First we have protein. All right. Protein, you know what? Hold on, I got to look at my list here. Because the one thing I wanted to add to this actually don't actually didn't have in my notes, which is kind of silly is is training strength training. And that's primarily because today I wanted to focus on the nutrition side. But even if you aren't going to build muscle first, you need to be training as if you're building muscle before you do a fat loss phase. And this can happen in the body recon phase. So training for progressive overload, lifting heavy and all that. I recently did an episode on progressive overload Look, isn't this so nice? Every one of these topics, I've got like a full episode that goes into details on it. And you can always reach out to me on IG at Wits & Weights and say, Hey, what was the episode about this? What was the episode about that? Do you have a video training on this and I will send it to you. Okay, so training. But assuming you're doing that the next thing is prioritize protein intake. can't say it enough. In fat loss protein becomes even more important than when you're not in fat loss. Because this is going to help you preserve and repair and regrow your lean tissue, your muscle mass, this is how you hold on to it. So that your body will be really stingy with the protein and instead it's going to go to the next source of energy which is fat. Okay, it's gonna go to fat. If you don't have enough protein, then it's going to your body is going to break down that muscle protein tissue because you also don't have very many carbs coming in and let's be honest, the calories are low, and you're going to lose muscle. We don't want to do that. So what's the target? I would shoot for the full one gram per pound of bodyweight, which is like 2.2 kilograms, grams per kilogram, or even a little higher like 1.1 Give yourself a little bit of a stretch goal 1.1 grams per pound, which is about 2.4 grams per kilogram. And how do you do that? Okay, that's the big challenge. You want to consume high protein foods. So eggs yes are kind of in that category, but you got to be careful for the with the fat in the yolk. So I would supplement holy Eggs with egg whites during a fat loss phase. Chicken is always a good option in Turkey fish, low to emit low to moderate fat or even no fat dairy are all good options. And of course, you can supplement with protein powder if needed. And most people do need to like the amount of protein you're going to want to get usually requires at least one protein shake for most people just to kind of get through the day with with everything intact, and then distributed evenly throughout the day is the best advice I have in terms of how to fit it in. A lot of people say well, I'm too full, or I can't fit it in or, you know, I can get my calories, but I never get my protein. Plan ahead, look at your day. How can you get three feedings, maybe two feedings, three feedings, four feedings, depending on what it is. And just divide just subdivide the protein. If you need 120 grams, and you eat four times, that's 30 grams per meal. Now one meal might have 50 And one might have 20. And one might have 15 or 35, but just distributed throughout the day. So you can you can get it. Okay, prioritize protein. Second, I'm gonna I'm not gonna use numbers because I have these bullets on my notes. So the next item is ensure adequate carb intake. Okay, so again, we're just focusing on macros right now just to start simple. The thing in fat loss is your calories are low, right? So and your protein is high, and your fat needs to be at some certain minimum level. We talked all about the benefits of carbs for muscle in the last episode. But I also suggested that it gets really difficult or gets to be more of a trade off during fat loss because you only have so many calories to play with. Carbs are anticon up catabolic, they prevent the breakdown of muscle protein, they provide fuel for high intensity exercise. So my suggestion is after the protein needs are met, let's say it's 1.1 grams per pound. You can experiment with different fat and carb levels, mainly to ensure you have enough carbs. But some women respond better to higher carbs versus fats and vice versa. And I've had female clients who the carbs are pretty low, the fats are pretty low, we increase the carbs not much difference, we increase the fats and all of a sudden the the started to perform better. So you just never know until you try it yourself. But I wouldn't just pick a fixed number and go with it. As a one size fits all. I would experiment with different levels. So for women, the fat can come down to as low as like 15, even 10 grams. I mean 10 is getting sporty, I think Eric Trexler mentioned seven is like the rock bottom. But I would give yourself a little buffer and say 15 and all the rest, go to carbs, anything that's not already reserved to protein, and give it a shot right now, part of it for a lot of women. It's the timing of the carbs. And here's what I see. For example, let's say you train in the morning. First of all, don't train fasted or at least experiment with training fed to see how it feels. So that's that's one problem is training faster. But let's say you're not training fasted, and you are eating, you know, three meals a day, and you trade. If you are not shifting those carbs toward your workout, you may experience a performance degradation. And so time, the most carbs around your workout, if you work out in the morning, get like 60% of your carbs or even 80% of your carbs around the workout. If you work out around dinner in the evening. Same thing, if you work out in the middle day, same thing, shift your carbs so that they are parity workout pairing meaning in the vicinity of your workout. So that's the second thing, especially important for women, especially cuz you're gonna have lower calories to play with and most men, sorry to say it's just just reality, right? You're smaller, your metabolisms are lower, you have less muscle mass, etc. That's one of the differences. Okay, next is the

Philip Pape  33:49

the wealth, nutrient timing around the workouts I think I already covered. But the last one was carbs specifically than I wanted to talk about nutrient timing, specifically around training, both carbs and protein. So in addition to shifting most of your carbs to around your workout, also make sure to have protein before and after. And by before I mean, two hours, you know, before or less doesn't have to be half an hour before and after. I mean, like within an hour to have protein. So again, you're kind of shifting a lot of your calories, you're really important calories to the workout period to maximize the muscle preservation and the use of that training signal. Okay, the next thing for successful fat loss is eating high nutrient density foods. So the very simple approach here is the 8020 or even in fat loss might be 9010 approach, where 90% of our foods are Whole Foods. The other 10% is indulgences, whatever you want, right and so it's a little tighter during fat loss than if you weren't in fat loss. So you're going to focus on whole foods, lean protein, fruits, veggies, dairy, whatever Whole Foods That fill you up to have a lot of nutrients. So I have a preference or bias toward more green veggies, more salads, more steamed vegetables, roasted vegetables with your dinner, like putting vegetables wherever you can. As well as fruits that are lower in calories like strawberries, a huge bowl of strawberries can really fill up your stomach, at the cost of like 100 calories, you know, very few calories, but it fills up your stomach. But don't discount other things like even in your indulgences, if you like popcorn, I mean, you can eat a huge bowl of just lightly salted popcorn, air popped popcorn. And that's very few calories, compared to like a tiny bowl of you know, chips, which are which are cooked in fat, right, they're gonna have a lot more calories. Again, I'm never saying anything's good and bad. What I'm saying is during fat loss, nutrient dense foods are going to be your friend, because they are going to have more fiber, they are going to fill you up, they're going to take up more space, okay. And they ensure that your diet includes some, at least the minimums of certain things of certain nutrients like magnesium, zinc, iron, chromium, all those things, which leads me to the next item to address micronutrient deficiencies, which become way more common during fat loss because you simply can't consume as much food. So even if you are focused on nutrient density foods, you just may not have enough mass of it coming in to give you optimal levels of all the different vitamins, you know, vitamin D, iron, zinc, and so on. And this is where you could use bloodwork, like if you want to if you want to take this to the next level and be totally sure get bloodwork done, you know before the fat loss phase, and then maybe halfway through, and kind of an even at the end, and you can see what you are susceptible to in terms of deficiencies, correlated with the calorie deficit, right, not just in general, because everybody has certain deficiencies, because they eat a certain way, or genetics or whatever. And this is where you would use supplementation strategically. So the common supplements I recommend for most people in most of my clients are going to be a multivitamin of some kind. Magnesium for most people, vitamin D, for some people, fish oil. For some people, it depends on if you're deficient and really need these, if you get a lot of sunlight, you may not need vitamin D, if you eat a lot of fatty fish, I mean, the fish oil, but in a fat loss phase, you might be eating super lean fish or white fish, and not getting very much of the Omega threes, right? So in fat loss, it becomes even more important that you're addressing your micronutrients where you can't, okay. And the reason I say that is because these minerals and these vitamins cascade into lots of performance related aspects of your life, how you feel how you sleep, your stress on and on and on. And it could be the simple remedy, you need to for example, get a better night's sleep, like you may be deficient in magnesium, you may be getting migraines, you may be whatever. And it can be a nutrient deficiency. And this is more common in women, because you're eating fewer calories than men. All right. Next is improving your relationship with food. Now I'm not just going to say do it. Like, okay, improve your relationship with food go. It's more complicated than that. But it doesn't have to be. So the big rule I hate to call it a rule because we're talking about getting away from rules and rigidity. But if I had a rule of be don't view foods as good and bad, it is what it comes down to eat foods because they satisfy you. Because they are important in your lifestyle for who you are, what your schedule is what you do what you like your preferences, your social calendar, your you know, the things you do with friends and family plan in the indulgences because we don't want to binge eat, we don't want to emotionally eat, we want to be able to have the things we enjoy occasionally by choice. And then part of that is learning your hunger and satiety cues, you know, physical versus emotional hunger. And I know I'm throwing a lot at you here. But the overall the overall picture here is we want to be consistent and be able to add here to our diet during fat loss and not feel like we are suffering. Like we're miserable. Like we can't eat things. Instead, I want you to take one or two indulgences that you enjoy and plan them in. plan them into Saturday plan them in every day if you if you want to write like if every single day you want to have a cookie, this this awesome cookie that you like and it satisfies a sweet tooth and one cookie we'll do it or two cookies or whatever. Plan it in, look at the macros calories planning in and work the rest of your diet around it. As far as hunger, you're going to have higher hunger during fat loss. And so this is why going back to nutrient dense foods high fiber foods high volume foods is going to make a big difference. If you can drink a lot more water and eat a lot more veggies and eat more strawberries and watermelon and whatever and things that fill you up in addition to the things you need for protein because protein is also satisfying and filling. Then you've got it covered. You can still fit in okay white potato white potatoes are the highest satiety food because they are resistant starch. A lot of people don't realize that, right? They're more way more satisfying the sweet potatoes, people think of sweet potato is this amazing nutrient food, dense food and potatoes. white potatoes is bland, inferior cousin over here. Not true. white potato has a ton of nutrition. And it's extremely filling. So slice it up, put some seasoning on it, and cook it you roasted in the oven and have that with your dinner. Right? Okay, so being consistent rather than perfect. Eating for satisfaction, planning in indulgences, not viewing foods is good, bad, all of that stuff related to your relationship with food. If, if you are not there yet, before you start a fat loss phase, it's just gonna get worse during fat loss. This is why the body recomp or the prep phase is important because at least there we can say, okay, all these things are in place. I know how to eat like my 8020 I know how to plan things in I know how to do meal prep, I don't eat with guilt, I know that I can enjoy my indulgences, I understand why when I'm physically hungry versus emotionally hungry. All that. And this is where we're working with a coach. I know I say this a lot. And it sounds like I'm plugging my service. But I got into this, because I saw these problems and I had them myself. And when you can help somebody and guide them through and take the stress off in this area, a lot of the other stuff just gets easy. So it's very important. And especially for women, I just see this way more with women than with men, for whatever reason, okay? And it's probably the pressures you put on yourself, the pressure society puts on you. It's the body image. It's the dieting, it's the this this this, okay? Okay, the next thing, hormones, we want to make sure hormone production is optimized as best we can with the natural approaches. And by natural I mean, your lifestyle. Yes, supplementation to an extent or even herbal supplementation in some cases, and then some form of hormone therapy or treatment if needed. Now, if if you've got a dysregulation or an imbalance in your hormones, whether it's thyroid or testosterone, DHEA, whatever, right? You're perimenopause, menopause, whatever. And you haven't addressed that I would not want to be, I would not want to have you do a fat loss phase until you do. So, I'm going to make the assumption that you've gotten bloodwork you've gotten urine metabolite testing, or saliva testing, you're working with maybe a hormone specialist, you've gotten your free testosterone checked through bloodwork, you've got your progesterone, estrogen, estradiol, all that stuff checked. And you've taken steps during the body recomp of the pre fat loss phase, to improve your training, your stress, your sleep, all that stuff, naturally, to get it to the best level possible. And then, if you need replacement therapy, you're getting that as well. But for you do a fat loss phase, I know not everyone can do that, I realized that it's sometimes a longer process. But just know that during fat loss, if you hit plateaus, or if your body isn't responding, or your metabolism drops, like a rock, it could be related to some hormone imbalances that are not lifestyle derived, you know, your ovaries produce testosterone, while your ovaries produce less and less until they produce zero testosterone at some point. And if your stress is through the roof, that also affects your testosterone. Well guess what testosterone is a huge player in all of this. I'll actually be covering that in my first one of my first episodes in January with Karen Martel, we talked about that. But anyway, my point here is, hormones for women are extremely critical. You know, I don't You don't need me to tell you that. natural ways to improve it are going to be the big one is reducing stress, and getting better sleep quality and quantity. If you're getting five hours of sleep. If you're running around constantly with a busy schedule with no time for yourself whatsoever, that is going to be

Philip Pape  43:52

that is going to make fat loss a lot harder. And the reason is, is those hormonal imbalances lead to a downregulation your metabolism that's really what it comes down to, you're simply going to burn fewer calories, and that means you can't eat as much. And then if you can't eat as much, you might be in low energy availability, and guess what happens? It all gets worse. And it's a vicious cycle. So reducing stress by improving your adrenal function, improving your sleep quality and quantity. Okay, and I have a lot of resources in past episodes where I talked about some of the stuff so reach out if you need specifics, make sure you have normal menstrual function. Make sure that you've gotten things checked as needed, like thyroid and cortisol, your reproductive hormones, testosterone, estradiol, DHEA, estrogen, progesterone, all of that. And if you need to be taken therapy under the guidance of a specialist or doctor, go for it. One more thing is adaptogens. I'm a big fan sometimes of certain adaptogens like ashwagandha I just came I just found out about something called gorilla mind sigma as well for women to potentially boost your testosterone. Now again, these are all herbal, supple Since I'm not a medical doctor, I'm not dispensing advice, I'm just saying that those options are out there. And if you want to experiment with them, go for it. Okay, so this is really important during fat loss because if you don't have your hormones optimized, you're just shooting yourself in the foot by down regulating your metabolism by potentially hundreds of calories. And not only that, it could be to such an extent that as you cut calories, your body just further down regulates to catch up, and you just stay in a plateau. And that's why we want to address these issues first. Okay, almost done here. Second, the last item here is setting up and running your fat loss phase with proper tracking. Okay, so now we're talking about the nuts and bolts of the actual fat loss phase. Here's where I'm going to suggest using macro factor to log your food. I don't like any other food apps on the market, food logging apps, they all suck this is the only one that I think works really well because it is adherents neutral. It doesn't punish you doesn't give you flash ups you know read numbers because you were over on your on your calories. It simply says, hey, here are your targets. Here your minimums here targets based on how many calories you're burning this week. And then next week, your your new targets next week. Are you new targets, oh, you changed your goal. Okay, we'll give you new targets. very objective very neutral. And what it does is it calculates your expenditure. Go back and listen to episode 98, episode 98. If you want to learn all about food loggers, but definitely go get macro factor use my code, Wits & Weights all one word Wits & Weights to get an extra free week on your trial. And reach out to me for help. If you need help setting it up, definitely have to log your food for one minimum reason alone. And that is awareness. When you're in a fat loss phase, if you don't know what's going in your mouth, from a calorie Mac and a macro perspective, you're going to be all over the place, you're gonna go back to yo yo land, and you're going to be over consuming on the weekend, or you're gonna be grazing and not realizing you could be snacking, and you're gonna have alcohol, and you're going to just have lots of uncertainty floating around. But if you can just track your food, you're gonna have that awareness. And if you've been tracking food and use it for targets because the food lager knows how many calories you're burning, even better. All right, so then once you've got that set up, you're going to go at a reasonable rate of loss. Remember, before I said one of the biggest mistakes is cutting too aggressively. And the most you want to go is the most you want to cut is 1% body weight per week. But I found that most women because of the tighter calorie budget are better off at around half to maybe point seven 5% body weight per week, so that you're not restricting those calories too low and causing all the other issues we talked about. Yes, it's going to take a little longer. But wouldn't you rather it take longer be able to get through it successfully, and not have to feel like you're suffering on low, you know, lower and lower calories. Probably most people would take that trade off, you can shift calories around within the week to work with your lifestyle. So if you're a big weekend partier and you'd love to go out to eat on the weekends, shift the calories a little bit toward the weekend. Now the more you do this, the more extreme you get with this, the less consistent your schedule is, and that actually could backfire with your metabolism. So I wouldn't go too much, I wouldn't do that too much. I would shift a little, you know, a few 100 calories here and there not like 1000 calories where you save them for the weekend. And then you can as you go through the dieting phase, the fat loss phase, you can use tools like refeeds and diet breaks, to give you some psychological relief as needed, or to fit within your lifestyle. Like if you're going on a trip, right? A refeed is like a one to two day period where you eat up at your maintenance calories and take a little break. Worst case, it's just going to pause your fat loss for a few days. Diet breaks are just longer versions of that where you might go for a week. Like maybe you're going on a cruise, maybe you're going on a trip you go for a week. Now, if you're if you still log during that time, you'll at least know where you stand. If you don't just be aware of all the other things of selecting protein you didn't right amount of carbs, you didn't nutrient density and like stick close to that when you're on your cruise, so that it doesn't completely backfire progress, but it is still just one week. And so we've got to enjoy life, right? It's fine. Sometimes you just need the break and that's fine too. So whatever works for you. Last thing is if you want to get the best results possible, having accountability from another person or community is going to make a huge difference. It just is every time I look in my life where I you know wanted to go after a goal and I floundered around and I experimented and I tried to do it myself, you know, DIY and I read podcasts and read books, is just fits and starts and fits and starts and sometimes going down the wrong path but then kind of reconnecting and back and forth. And then I'd hire a coach and it was like boom, one month done or whatever whatever you're trying to achieve. You know, you would you would do it. You kind of take a shortcut right to that direct path. So a free The way to do this right if coaching is too expensive is to join our Wits & Weights Facebook community in there, you have the opportunity to ask me questions that I answer live, you have the opportunity to ask a whole bunch of smart people in the group questions about your training your nutrition, recipe ideas, just to share your wins, share your frustrations, talk to people, you know, have that support people who are positive by the way, our community is positive, and not in a delusional way, in a genuine, we all want to help, we've all been there kind of way, there is no room for people who try to bring others down, people are toxic, I've only had to kick out like two people from the group the whole time it's been open. So we invite positive people and generally have positive people, you can gain a lot from that the Wits & Weights, Facebook community, link is always in the show notes. And then the other way to get accountability is working with a nutrition coach. I am a Nutrition coach. But there are many others out there. There's lots of different levels of service people provide. And you know, you've got to find what's right for you. If you like what you hear on my show, if I sound like a decent enough guy that you could stand listening to giving you feedback on a weekly basis, so that we get you that result, please reach out. And if not, you know maybe I can refer you to somebody else. Or at least join into the community and say hello. Alright, so accountability is the last piece. That's quite a list. I hope it wasn't overwhelming. And again, there's this free guide that will go through it all again for you. Hopefully it is clear, it is crystal clear that losing body fat requires some strategy. It requires some thinking ahead, some patience, and some special considerations, especially for women, we want to support your body's needs your hormones, we want to have realistic expectations. We want to adhere to an appropriate for you nutrition and training plan. So you get there the right way, and avoid all these other mistakes that so many women make. So if you are ready to chat about your specific situation, and how to go through a proper body recomp prep phase, you know the primer, the prep phase we talked about if you want to avoid the negative effects of low energy restriction, if you want to train properly for your body to improve your health, your physique, hormones, and execute a successful fat loss phase. And if you want to lose some more like 20 to 30 pounds of fat the right way. Just reach out to me and set up a free results breakthrough session. Totally free every week, I clear spots in my calendar to chat with women about their nutrition and training strategy. And what we're going to do is just map out here are the top two or three steps to take right now to get unstuck and make real progress. And that's it. No selling no pitching none of that simply a strategy that we work out together, click the link in my show notes for the free call. Let's make it happen. Okay, in our next episode 128, my favorite gym things seven gifts under $100. I've put together a fun but highly useful list of equipment and accessories that I recommend for your home gym or gym bag, just in time for the holidays, or maybe your birthday, or just a gift to yourself to celebrate a recent win. Make sure to subscribe to the show, please subscribe. It's one of the best ways that you can support me is just tap the little toggle in your podcast app right now that says follow or subscribe so you get new episodes. And you'll get all these new episodes as soon as they drop. If you don't want to listen to them, you just delete it. But please subscribe and you'll get notified. And I really thank you thank you from the bottom of my heart for supporting the show and for listening and I always welcome your feedback. As always, stay strong. And I'll talk to you next time here on the Wits & Weights podcast.

Philip Pape  53:42

Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights if you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights, please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then stay strong

Ep 126: More Carbs, More Muscle (Why Low-Carb and Keto Are Keeping You Skinny Fat)

Are you scared that carbs will make you fat and avoid them completely? Did you know that a balanced diet rich in carbohydrates is not just good but essential for building strength muscle, and shedding fat?

Today, I will be going over all the reasons why, 9 reasons in particular, eating a moderate to high carb diet—or what I like to call a balanced and healthy amount of carbs—is absolutely essential if your goal is to build muscle, get stronger, improve your body composition, get leaner, and yes even make fat loss easier.

Let’s call this the “I love carbs, and you should too” episode. You’ll definitely want to share this with a friend, especially if they’re a low-carb or keto zealot who loves to brag about how they haven’t looked at, let alone eaten a potato or bowl of oatmeal in a while. They are leaving massive gains on the table, and this is a very fast road not only to skinny fat but to a miserable existence in terms of enjoying your food.
If I sound a bit sarcastically aggressive today, it’s because I lived the low-carb delusion for an entire decade and paid the price. Now that my bloodstream is flooded with nature’s sweet glycogen drug 24/7, I look back and feel sorry for my carb-deprived former self and want nothing more than for YOU to put that person in the rearview mirror, too.

Episode summary:

Carbohydrates have often been misunderstood and maligned. There exists a widespread misconception that carbohydrates, or carbs, contribute to weight gain and are therefore detrimental to achieving a fit and lean physique. This misleading belief has given rise to various diet trends such as low carb or keto diets. However, in the latest episode, we seek to debunk these myths and illuminate the crucial role that carbs play in muscle development, recovery, and overall performance optimization.

Carbohydrates serve as the body's primary source of energy. When consumed, they break down into glucose which fuels our cells, tissues, and organs. For individuals who engage in high-intensity workouts, such as weight lifting or resistance training, carbohydrates are particularly important. This is because these activities deplete muscle glycogen, the storage form of glucose. Consuming carbohydrates helps to replenish these glycogen stores, providing the necessary energy for muscle contractions during workouts and promoting faster recovery post-exercise.

One of the major points discussed in the podcast is the protective role of insulin, a hormone released by the body in response to carbohydrate intake. Insulin is often misunderstood and vilified due to its association with diabetes. However, insulin serves as a powerful anti-catabolic, protecting muscle tissue from breakdown and driving nutrients into muscle cells. Additionally, carbohydrates play a vital role in preventing muscle protein breakdown, a common concern for athletes and fitness enthusiasts striving for muscle growth and retention.

Another important aspect of carbohydrate consumption highlighted in the podcast is its influence on the testosterone to cortisol ratio. Proper carbohydrate consumption supports a favorable testosterone to cortisol ratio, which is beneficial for muscle anabolism and recovery. Testosterone is a hormone that promotes muscle growth, while cortisol, often referred to as the "stress hormone", can lead to muscle breakdown when levels are too high. Therefore, a higher ratio of testosterone to cortisol is desirable for those seeking to build and maintain muscle mass.

Furthermore, the podcast episode stresses the importance of maintaining a balanced macronutrient intake. While carbohydrates play a pivotal role in muscle development and recovery, it is equally important to consume adequate amounts of protein for muscle repair and growth, as well as healthy fats for optimal hormonal function. It is also crucial to dispel the misleading belief that carbs invite weight gain. Weight gain is primarily a result of consuming more calories than the body burns, regardless of whether these calories come from carbohydrates, proteins, or fats. Therefore, rather than demonizing carbs or any specific macronutrient, the key to a healthy diet lies in balance and moderation.

This episode debunks common misconceptions, advocates for a balanced and moderate carbohydrate intake, and emphasizes the multifaceted benefits of carbs for muscle building, recovery, and overall performance.

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Click here to apply for coaching!
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Today you’ll learn all about:

[2:44] Carbs are beneficial to muscle growth
[7:34] Energy for high-intensity workouts
[8:52] Glycogen replenishment
[10:16] Protein sparing and mTOR activation
[11:56] Insulin release and hormone balance
[15:45] Prevent muscle protein breakdown
[18:05] Carbs optimizes testosterone to cortisol ratio
[20:02] Reduce muscle soreness post-workout
[21:18] Support muscle retention
[23:58] Improve overall performance
[27:13] Outro

Episode resources:

• Ep 124: How to Use Progressive Overload the RIGHT way to Build Strength and Muscle (Even in Fat Loss)

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Transcript

Philip Pape  00:00

When it comes to carbs, you fall into one of three categories. You're scared they will make you fat and avoid them completely. You're testing the waters but whether they will make you fat, or you've realized that a balanced diet rich in carbohydrates is not just good, but essential for building strength, muscle and shedding fat. My goal today is to help you find your way into this pleasant third category. Stay tuned as we uncover nine compelling science backed reasons to embrace carbs for a leaner stronger you. Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in. Wits & Weights community Welcome to another solo episode of the Wits & Weights podcast in our latest episode 125 peptides, hormone therapy, medical esthetics and personalized wellness with Kristin Jim. We discussed peptides, hormone therapy, medical weight loss, and other ways to complement lifestyle interventions to optimize your health today for episode 126 more carbs, more muscle, why low carb and keto or keeping you skinny fat? I will be going over all the reasons why nine reasons in particular, eating a moderate to high carb diet, or what I like to call a balanced and healthy amount of carbs is absolutely essential. If your goal is to build muscle get stronger, improve your body composition, get leaner, and yes even make fat loss easier. Let's call this the I love carbs and you should to episode you'll definitely want to share this with a friend especially if they're a low carb or keto zealot who loves to brag about how they haven't looked at, let alone eaten a potato or bowl of oatmeal in a while they are leaving massive gains on the table. And this is a very fast road not only to skinny fat, but to a miserable existence in terms of enjoying your food, at least for 99% of people. If I sound a bit sarcastically aggressive today, it's because I've lived the low carb delusion for an entire decade. And I paid the price. Now that my bloodstream is flooded with nature's sweet glycogen drug 24/7. I look back and feel sorry for my carb deprived former self. And I want nothing more than for you to put that person in the rearview mirror too. So let's get into today's topic, more carbs, more muscle, why low carb and keto are keeping you skinny fat. So as often is the case, I love to look at the science look at what the studies say. And I'm going to reference one in particular. But I will say that there are multiple studies that support the idea that carbs are beneficial for building muscle. And there don't seem to be any, there was one that was retracted that support the opposite. So there's a plethora of evidence in support of this case, not to mention, my clients, the very vast majority of them come to me not eating enough carbs, we increase their carbs, lo and behold a lot of the issues they had before not just related to muscle building, but energy recovery, sleep, which all contribute also to muscle building. just magically go away just from having more carbs, hormones, etc. You name it. So I want to get into the exact reasons why this is a beneficial thing. But let me mention one study that Bill Campbell reviewed in his research review, I think it was back in Issue two in the study is by Paoli at all 2021. So it's just a couple years old. And the title is effects of two months of very low carbohydrate ketogenic diet on body composition, muscle strength, muscle area and blood parameters in the competitive natural bodybuilders. And the study looked at the effects of a keto diet, you know, a keto diet versus a normal Western diet, which we're going to call moderate or high carb throughout this episode, but frankly, we can just call it normal carbs. But this is all in the IODP eye of the beholder. If we think of how language works, we've gotten so used to the idea of low carb and keto being somewhat of a norm that the any contrast to that is considered high carbs. By the end of the episode, I hope you'll come to the conclusion that moderate high carbs as we call them, are really just balanced, diverse and balanced diverse diet and a healthy level of carbs. Okay, anyway, they looked at keto versus normal on body composition and strength in 19 Male natural bodybuilders so people were already knew how to train they already knew how to eat control their macros and so on. The keto group consumed very low carb, very high fat, moderate protein, the normal diet group ate higher carb lower fat and that same amount of protein so same calories, same Protein Protein equated diet very important. After eight weeks, the normal diet group gained significantly more muscle mass five pounds of muscle, compared to the Keto group, only 1.2 pounds. That is a 5x difference. The keto group gained very little for all that training and all that work. And they still gain the same amount of weight. So what does that tell you? If they didn't gain muscle mass? What did they gain? Okay, so now we're already seeing one of the differences. Both groups increase strength similarly, right, but muscle wise, the non keto group gained a lot more. The researchers did confirm that the Keto group maintained ketosis based on their ketone levels. And so overall, the studies suggest that a normal higher carb diet may be better for maximizing muscle growth in people who lift. And this is actually one of the first studies on keto diets in bodybuilders that also should, you know, that also show that lower carb intake impairs muscle building capabilities, compared to a more balanced diet that can has adequate carbs. I think Brandon Cruz covered this topic in a recent episode of chasing clarity as well. And he mentioned another study, I didn't get time to verify it. But it showed that women in particular, also experienced a performance hit a performance impact when the carbs are lower, even more than men did. And there's probably some reason for that a validity for that, that I'm going to be covering in I think my very next episode actually is going to be covering female fat loss, specifically for females, because there are differences between men and women. And I think it's important to talk about those differences, both physiologically and also in terms of stigma and society and kind of the the culture as well. So I'll be covering that in the next episode. But for today, let's get into nine reasons. The carbs are just awesome. Like that, you should just eat more carbs, period. All right.

Philip Pape  06:59

By the end of this, if you're not convinced, nobody's gonna convince you. And honestly, I'm not even trying to convince you so much as enlighten you as to what the evidence says. Because I am so excited by the fact that I could always eat way more carbs than I ever used to. And every day I wake up thinking, here's another day, I get to just eat a bunch of foods I love and I just have to balanced approach. That means by goals, it isn't that what we all want is that like rule number one with sticking with it. I feel so bad for the people who are just cutting out entire food groups thinking that that's going to get them results, I just I feel sad for them. And if you know someone like that, please share this episode with them. All right, number one, energy for your workouts. Alright, we're not even talking about strength training here, I wanted to get this one out of the way. High intensity and Glagolitic workouts, glycolytic aerobic workouts like high intensity interval training, cardio, even CrossFit, okay. Carbohydrates are the crucial energy for those modes of movement. And these movements may be part of your overall programming, they may be part of your, you know, muscle building repertoire, even though we often I don't want to say I denigrate cardio, I think cardio is very important for just general conditioning and cardiovascular health. But if you're doing any sort of glycolytic movement, just know that having carbs is also supportive of this. So I just wanted to mention that muscle glycogen is the predominant fuel source during moderate to high intensity exercise. And its availability can make or break the performance you gained during that. And so if you don't have it, it can really wipe you out. And that could actually impede your recovery for other things like you're lifting even more than if you didn't. And so a high carb diet gives you a ready supply of glucose for glycogen synthesis. And this keeps your muscles primed and energized even for those types of workouts. Okay, so that's it energy for high intensity workouts was number one. Number two, glycogen replenishment. One of the most important things we have when it comes to cars, post workout, carbohydrate consumption, replenishes your muscle glycogen, we can drain as much as something like 40% of your glycogen during a heavy lifting session. And if you train frequently, you know, if you're working out four days a week, maybe five days a week, this is a daily thing almost right? And having a more optimal glycogen storage meaning you're filling up the tank, you're having the the carbs around your workout, not necessarily just after but also before just kind of around your workout will improve the it's effectively a form of endurance is it not? Right even though you're you might be lifting very heavy weights, you might be doing singles or triples, you're still draining this, this energy tank. And once it's drained, you're gonna feel wiped out you're gonna feel like you can't quite get enough reps. You might feel like you have to cut the workout short, or you just may feel like you're dragging and this also doesn't make it as enjoyable either you because next time you're like, I gotta go back to the gym and I'm going to feel like that again. Right. So, the carbs for glycogen before and after are important now. After New York out, you've, you actually have greater insulin sensitivity. And so you're gonna be able to make really good use of the glycogen coming in, you're gonna be able to replenish that tank even faster. So that is a really nice synergy there. Alright, so that's number two, glycogen replenishment. Number three very important one, this one comes up a lot. And I think it confuses people, or they don't even realize that this happens. And that is the protein sparing, and mTOR activation. So a couple of mechanisms here, I want to explain. By consuming sufficient carbs, you're effectively telling your body, here you go, here's the easiest, most ready source of carbs or energy for you. And and you're good. Without the sufficient carbs, you're going to start to utilize muscle protein for energy. But when you have carbs coming in, well, now your muscles didn't get repaired and built using your protein directly. It's very efficient. All right, and part of this process is called the mTOR pathway. The mTOR is considered the master regulator of cell growth. It's influenced by nutrient availability. So this is why we want to have protein, protein and carbs coming in. So we get this optimal muscle protein synthesis, right? The carbs enhance the body's anabolic response by activating mTOR. When paired with adequate protein intake, this is probably a very key mechanism as to why carbs are anti catabolic, why increasing carbs helps with the use of the protein to build muscle. Does that make sense? So carbs are protein sparing, partly because they activate the mTOR pathway. I forget what mTOR stands for. It's like mammalian. Oh, man, don't I forget, but a mammalian something of Oh, don't forget, I'm not even gonna I'm not gonna say here. I could look it up and I'm gonna move on. Alright. mTOR pathway, MTR. Alright, number four, insulin, insulin release and hormone balance. All right, so carbs stimulate insulin release, it's one of the reasons they have a bad reputation. People, oh my god, if you eat too many carbs, you're gonna spike your insulin. Now, if you're sedentary, and you're over consuming calories and gaining weight, and you're not training, and most likely the majority of calories are coming from carbs and fat, you probably don't have much protein, then yeah, you're gonna gain a lot of weight, you're going to head toward that pre diabetic, by pre diabetic, eventually diabetic state of metabolic disease. And it's correlated with higher insulin and insulin resistance, but not because of the carbs in and of themselves, because of the carbs being consumed in a hyper caloric environment, right, you're over consuming. You're not training you have in your, you don't have any muscle mass data, data, that right the whole thing, ties together. unhealthy lifestyle means more carbs, and calories are not going to be good for you. But when you are working out when you do eat, the appropriate amount of energy for your needs, carbohydrates stimulate insulin. And this helps with things like nutrient transport into your cells and also modulating other hormones, right? Insulin can reduce cortisol. So there's a reason when you work out, you feel a little bit calm down, like you might feel ramped up mentally, right, like in terms of you're energized for the day. But you've also, quote unquote, burned through some cortisol, because the insulin spike has reduced the cortisol levels. Guess what that does? It mitigates muscle protein breakdown, it increases growth factor, IGF one. And all of this helps with the recovery and the muscle building. I mean, it's a beautiful cascade, I say beautiful a lot I know. But it's a wonderful cascade between carbohydrate, insulin, and the other hormones that are synergistic with building muscle and avoiding muscle protein breakdown. Hey, this is Philip. And I hope you're enjoying this episode of Wits & Weights, I started Wits & Weights to help people who want to build muscle lose fat and actually look like they lift. I've noticed that when people improve their strength and physique, they not only look and feel better, they transform other areas of their life, their health, their mental resilience and their confidence in everything they do. And since you're listening to this podcast, I assume you want the same things the same success, whether you recently started lifting, or you've been at this for a while and want to optimize and reach a new level of success. Either way, my one on one coaching focused on engineering your physique and body composition is for you. If you want expert guidance and want to get results faster, easier, and with fewer frustrations along the way to actually look like you lift, go to wits & weights.com and click on coaching or use the link in my show notes to apply today. I'll ask you a few short questions to decide if we're a good fit. And if we are, we'll get you started this week. Now back to the show. So insulin is a powerful anti catabolic Like, it protects muscle tissue from breakdown, right? And elevated insulin post carb intake then drives nutrients into muscle cells, which supports growth and prevents catabolism. So we love insulin. If you're a lifter, if you're lifting weights or training heavy progressive overload, you're getting the calories you need to get the protein you need. Embrace that insulin release, we want it. We want it because it does all these wonderful things to anti catabolic. All right, you're actually becoming more insulin sensitive, because you are lifting weights. All right, number five. This is the fifth out of nine beautiful reasons. Again, beautiful Saturday, again, sorry, that carbs are worth having as one of your best friends. Okay, number five,

Philip Pape  15:46

preventing muscle protein breakdown. So again, we're talking about the anti catabolic effects, right? Anti catabolic, catabolic is breakdown of tissue. Carbs are anti catabolic. Alright. Now, when you are in a low energy availability state, which is common when you are on a low carb diet, right, or when you're in a calorie deficit, the body is going to accelerate muscle protein breakdown to use those amino acids for energy. Going back to the protein sparing thing, this happens both during fat loss and in a surplus. Now, we're not talking too much about fat loss today, because with fat loss, all of us experience some of the challenges of low carb, because we have to keep the protein relatively high, we need a certain essential level of fat for health. And we're left with kind of a limited level of carbs. So my limited, I mean, oftentimes around 100 grams or less, which I'm going to call low carb slash keto territory. Whereas something like 150 grams or higher, gets into more normal moderate to high carb levels. And a simple formula for that is one gram per pound, very much like protein, right? So if you weigh 150 pounds, and you're getting 150 grams of protein, consider that moderate. And then it can go up from there. Anyway, what I was saying is that when you're losing fat, when you're in a fat loss phase, we know that one of the hardest things is to hold on to muscle. And that's because the body is going to break down the muscle protein and use that energy, because you just don't have much energy coming in. But here's the thing, when you're at maintenance, or when you're in a surplus, you get the same negative effects by not having enough carbs. That's the powerful thing here. That is why the bodybuilders in that study I started with could barely put on new muscle when they were deprived of carbs and the ones had the carbs flowing in. They're like, yeah, pack it on five pounds of muscle. Let's do it. And so adequate carb intake prevents that scenario, right? Here. Here's how the body uses its energy. But just to simplify it, I realized it's more complicated this, the body's energy hierarchy is going to use carbs first, fat second, and proteins as a last resort, adequate carbs adequate consumption, right dietary carbs, ensures that protein is reserved for its primary function that we want it for, which is muscle repair and growth. So carbs prevent muscle protein breakdown, super important. Number six carbs can optimize the testosterone to cortisol ratio, or this is one of those that I was refreshed in my if I even remembered it to begin with for my nutrition education. When I was researching this topic, proper carb consumption supports a favorable testosterone to cortisol ratio. And this is also favorable for muscle anabolism. And recovery. just intuitively think about it, the more testosterone the more anabolic you are, the less cortisol, the less stress the better recover, you have men and women, right? Even though men have multiples the amount of testosterone has women. You know, it's still important in both. And we mentioned before that carbs also help balance hormones. Well, conversely, a low carb diet can lead to hormonal imbalances that can impede your muscle gains. And in this case, the testosterone to cortisol ratio is one of those balances. So whenever somebody tells you like, you know, women over 40, they need to keep the carbs low. Watch out. I honestly that that's pretty terrible advice, just as generic advice, because at the end of the day, the right advice is you need to eat for you and your goals. And he's tested out and experiment with yourself. But also don't just assume that cutting something out to an unnatural level of aloneness. I just awkwardly worded that. But you know, what I mean, would somehow benefit you, right? Whereas a moderate to high carb diet is not moderate to high carb, right? It's a balanced level of carbs. And that actually maintains hormonal balance. So again, women over 40 Way more often than not, in my experience, and two thirds of my clients are women, and most of them are over 40 are going to thrive on higher carbs, their hormones are going to just balance the heck out of each other generally, right generally, unless you have other issues, but I'm just saying relative to a lower carb approach for most women, and And also for most people, all right, number seven, recovery, okay, and soreness. So these are very important aspects, carbs will reduce muscle soreness after your exercise. And they're going to speed up your recovery. I mean, we talked about glycogen, right? But even during and right after the workout, and up to like a day or two afterward, a higher carb diet will decrease the perception of fatigue. And they're going to lower the markers of muscle damage. cart. And the reason is, this is so cool. Carbs enhance the repair and rebuilding process of muscles. And I think that's because of the mTOR pathway. It's because they're anti catabolic is because they allow protein to be used for what they need to be used for just building muscles. You can see this is all related. It's all related. So carbs enhance all of those things. And guess what that means? You don't feel as sore you don't feel the tearing of the muscles as long they recover better. Also, who you know what else that means? Sar stress adaptation recovery I talked about in my last solo episode, progressive overload, this means you're gonna have better adaptation and growth over time. This is why you're gonna build muscle faster. It's so cool. I mean, improve recovery, less soreness, more energy, more anti catabolic, the list goes on and on. Alright, now we get to number eight. So carbs support retaining muscle in a calorie deficit. Okay, I alluded it to I alluded to it earlier, but we have to address fat loss. What does this all me? All right, especially for women, okay, because women apparently will see it and even bigger performance drop with low carb intake. But either way men and women need sufficient carbs to preserve muscle mass during calorie restriction. And I know that's hard to do, because we're also trying to keep the protein high. So if I were to prioritize that, I would say, hit your protein minimum. And that might look different for different people, but it's usually around point eight to one grams per pound, hit the fat minimum, this is where you have a little bit of a lever to play with, because a lot of us might just be consuming more fat than we really need relative to carbs during fat loss. And sometimes just dialing that fat a little bit down from say, 30% of the calories to 20%, or 25 to 15% of the calories and saying keep it pretty tight, gives you that extra room to crank up the carbs a little bit. Now I've also seen cases where just a small drop in protein can go over to a slight increase in carbs, and like these are like dials on a machine. And all of a sudden,

Philip Pape  22:30

the stress response gets reduced, right? Your expenditure starts to climb back up, or at least not drop as fast. And you're still able to retain muscle. It's a fine balance between multiple various variables. And I know it's tough. And this is why it really helps to have a coach like when I'm working with clients and fat loss. It is not just about the calorie deficit, it's about so much more than that. It's about how are we playing with the protein, fats and carbs for you, to give you enough energy to hold on to muscle, as measured by your lifts, and how you feel in the gym and your strength and all that. To give you enough energy, I think I said an energy to help with your sleep topple the recovery, it's all this balanced with the end goal to number one, get through the diet. That's number one, because you can't even do that you're gonna you know, you're not going to be successful. And then number two, hold on to as much muscle mass as possible. Okay, so it just remember even though the carbs might be down to like 100 grams, 80 grams, even 50 grams Aikido territory, do you have some dials to play with on the fat protein side give you a little bit more carbs if it seems to be affecting you. Otherwise, the only other options are to reduce the aggressiveness of the diet. So you eat more food, or, and or to increase your expenditure in other ways, like a higher step count, for example, or maybe you need more sleep or whatever a number of other areas, right. So it's all this kind of budget that we're playing with. All right, number nine, for why carbs are so important. Beyond muscle building, carbs improve your overall athletic performance. And this is this is different than recovery. And this is different than glycogen, this is just that just everything about how you're able to push the weights, you know, handle the intensity of from one rep to knock another and one set to another, to be able to ability to handle smaller rest periods, your work capacity, like all of your athletic markers, during a training session, whether it's lifting or cardio, both. You can have higher quality, more intense workouts in general, by having those carbs in your bloodstream, period. This is why I don't like fasted training, right? When people ask I say just don't do it, unless you've want to compare the two and then see which one works better for you. And 99% of the time it's going to be having the carbs in your system or having the food in your system. So if you only have a little bit of time before you work out out something very fast digesting like banana is a good option. If it's a little farther out, you have more options, it could be a slower digesting carb, like a grain like oats. And if if you have to fast train at all, I would eat a lot more carbs as my dinner the night before and have the dinner a little bit later. I mean, not so late that it impedes sleep but late enough that it kind of carries over into the next day, but it's still suboptimal in terms of the glycogen in the tank when you work out. So sufficient carbon take ensures that the muscle and liver glycogen stores are optimized like we talked about before. And this helps you with your training performance. So a lot of what I said today, these nine things inter weave, right like there's dependencies on each other, so they're not like completely isolated in a vacuum. But I thought it was important to bring up the whole picture so that you understand why carbs are so important. Now, we're gonna go over the negatives of a moderate to high carb diet and they really are not okay, so that was that section. And if you enjoy fruits, rice, pasta, oats, potatoes and the many other sources of carbs in a diverse balanced diet, please, by all means do enjoy them. Okay, so if you found this trip down carb lane, enlightening, or even just entertaining, I don't know. I'm gonna I'm in a good mood today. For some reason I'm always in a good mood but but a little bit more of a cheeky mood today, I guess, as my friends would say. share this episode with a friend please if you found this enlightening entertaining helpful in any way whatsoever, please share it with a friend, especially a low carb keto zealot who thinks that carbs make you fat, please share it with them, and then share it with them in the hopes that we can save one more soul from the misery of constantly cutting out carbs. I mean, that would do a huge service in the world. And it would probably help you know the agricultural industry as well. Anyway, in our next episode 127 Five fat loss mistakes women need to avoid what to do instead, we will go over why females in particular should reconsider jumping right into a fat loss phase. The five most common mistakes women make and how to set yourself up for a successful fat loss phase instead. As always, stay strong. And I'll talk to you next time here on the Wits & Weights podcast. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights, please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong