Post-Bulk Body Image Struggles and Fat Loss with a Slower Metabolism | Ep 341
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Have you ever looked in the mirror and felt like you were staring at a stranger... but in a good way?
That's exactly where Allan finds himself after successfully building visible muscle mass and fundamentally changing his relationship with food.
In this real-time coaching session, we get into the fascinating psychological phenomenon of mental lag that happens when your body transforms faster than your self-perception can keep up.
Discover how to handle rising metabolism during cuts, manage post-bulk hunger, and process the psychological side of major physique transformation.
Episode Mentions:
Allan's previous episode: After Bariatric Surgery, He Found Optimal Health and Strength Over 60
Try MacroFactor for free with code WITSANDWEIGHTS
Timestamps:
0:00 - Allan's physical and mental transformation since Episode 77
6:31 - "Feeling fat" is a fallacy
11:49 - Relationship with food and emotional eating
16:06 - Current training and what's working
19:03 - Live coaching on metabolism and hunger challenges
27:27 - Identifying the real cause of grazing behavior
34:32 - Family responsibilities and life balance
39:15 - Planning the next bulk
44:15 - The deeper "why" behind transformation
46:35 - Importance of proper warm-ups and injury prevention
52:40 - Biggest takeaways and next steps
Rebuilding Confidence After a Bulk (How to Navigate Fat Loss with a Slower Metabolism)
After a successful bulk, when you've packed on visible muscle and feel stronger than ever, you might think the hard part is over. But for many of us, especially those who’ve spent years reshaping their bodies, the mental game is just getting started.
In this coaching episode, we worked through Allan’s fat loss strategy after a long and productive bulk. We covered the post-bulk body image struggle, recalibrating expectations, and what your metabolism is really doing under the surface.
The Mental Lag After a Bulk
You can transform your physique and still not fully believe it. Allan described seeing himself in the mirror and not recognizing what he saw, even though he looked stronger and healthier than ever.
That disconnect is common. We change faster on the outside than our self-image can adapt. You might feel softer even after gaining visible muscle. That feeling is valid, but it doesn’t mean you failed. It means your brain is still catching up to your progress.
A Slower Metabolism Isn't the Problem
When Allan first came on the show in 2023, his maintenance calories were about 1,380. Today, after building muscle and increasing his activity, he's maintaining closer to 1,600. That’s a meaningful improvement.
But if you’re cutting based on old data, you might be running too deep of a deficit without realizing it. Allan was sticking to 1,100 to 1,200 calories per day, which created strong hunger signals and frequent grazing. The problem wasn’t discipline. The problem was a mismatch between actual energy needs and the target he was following.
Tracking apps like MacroFactor adjust slowly based on trends. If your activity and metabolism are rising quickly, the app can lag behind. Allan realized that and decided to trust his body’s signals by increasing intake slightly. He’s still losing fat but feeling more in control.
When Hunger is a Signal, Not a Mistake
If you’re lifting consistently, eating mostly whole foods, and still finding yourself constantly hungry, your body may be telling you something useful. In Allan’s case, the afternoon grazing started only after his training volume increased. His maintenance had climbed, but his targets hadn’t.
Instead of fighting the urge to eat more, he leaned into it strategically. He added 100 to 200 calories to his daily target while monitoring weekly fat loss. That was enough to satisfy hunger, support performance, and maintain a reasonable rate of progress.
Planning Beats Willpower
One of Allan’s biggest wins has been shifting from emotional eating to intentional eating. He still has moments of stress or temptation, but now he sees food as fuel and something to be enjoyed, not a coping mechanism.
This mindset helped him prepare for situations that used to derail him. For example, when visiting family in the hospital, he brings high-protein snacks like hard-boiled eggs so he’s not stuck choosing between vending machines and hunger. This didn’t require perfection. It just required planning.
Progress is Personal
Allan’s doctors gave him various targets, like reaching 160 pounds to improve certain health markers. But he no longer fixates on the scale. Instead, he’s focused on body composition and how he feels in his skin. That’s a better north star.
He's already dropped a few pounds while eating at a more appropriate level. He’s also aware that his next phase might look different. His long-term goal includes another bulk, but this time with a more measured approach, knowing exactly how his body responds to higher calories.
You Don’t Have to Start Over Every Time
Allan’s current cut is built on top of years of work. His habits are strong. His workouts are consistent. His food environment is dialed in. The only tweak he needed was a small adjustment to match his new maintenance. That’s it.
This is the difference between someone trying to overhaul everything at once and someone refining the system they already built. If you’re in the first camp, the goal is to get to where Allan is. If you’re already close, take this as a reminder that tiny adjustments often beat total overhauls.
Final Thoughts
If your metabolism is changing, your food targets need to change with it. If you’re constantly hungry on a fat loss diet, the answer might be to eat more, not less. And if your post-bulk body feels unfamiliar, give yourself time to mentally catch up to your physical transformation.
Allan’s story is proof that body composition, health, and mindset are all connected. The more we understand our own data and stay grounded in our why, the more sustainable our results become.
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Transcript
Philip Pape: 0:18
Thank you so much for joining us feel it. Today we're doing live coaching on his current cut strategy, tackling the post-bulk mindset challenges and figuring out his next steps. If you've ever felt that disconnect between how you look and how you feel, this conversation is going to have some gold for you today. Welcome to Wits and Weights, the show that helps you build a strong, healthy physique using evidence, engineering and efficiency. I'm your host, philip Pape, and today I'm doing something a bit different.
Philip Pape: 0:56
We're doing another focused coaching session, this time with Alan, who was on the show way back in episode 77, talking about his journey with emotional eating and bariatric surgery. So go check that out for the backstory. But Alan has been very busy since then. He has successfully built visible muscle mass. He's flipped around his relationship with food. Now he's dealing with what I call the good problems. You know like how to cut strategically after successfully bulking and that weird mental space where you've transformed your physique but your brain is still kind of catching up. So today's conversation is more coaching focused as we work through his current challenges in real time. We're talking about his pretty aggressive fat loss timeline, the post-bulk mindset hurdles and, of course, mapping out his next phase. Alan, are you ready to do this?
Allan: 1:46
Yes indeed.
Philip Pape: 1:48
All right. So people now say that you look like you train, like you've lived, and that you've added visible muscle mass and I definitely can see it and you've sent me before after photos and it's incredible. But you've said you don't recognize yourself in the mirror, but in a good way, right, right, how are you feeling right now about the new you?
Allan: 2:09
Surprised and learning to accept it. I think learning to accept it is a great pivotal point for discussion, because I have to give myself grace, I have to allow for my transformation that's occurred over the past couple of years. You know this is not something that happens within three months time. Yeah, you know. So, for example, my expenditure, when we've my daily expenditure for maintenance, was about 1380. Um, back in when we did our last podcast in June of 2023. And now my, my, I'm pushing 1600. Now, in terms of my expenditure. So I have. So I, when I look in the mirror or I look at my photo of me, sometimes I feel like, you know, adolescents go through something when they're 1415. They look in the mirror and they go this is what I look like now. So I recently looked at some photos of myself and it was like I don't. It's just a very, very visible reminder of that. I've achieved a certain physique and wellness because I look healthy. That's the most important thing.
Philip Pape: 3:20
You do Super vibrant, clear, skin, glowing smile. It's all there. It's right, we all try to vibrant, clear skin, glowing smile.
Allan: 3:26
It's all there. It's right. We all try to take care of ourselves, Philip.
Philip Pape: 3:28
Exactly that's what we're about, and so I like something you mentioned already, because we get into numbers, we get into data. I think that's important to just peel back reality. We were talking earlier on a Physique University coaching call about reality versus fantasy, and we all have these projections of ourselves from the past and into the future. And you look at something like your metabolism now is 250 or 300 calories more than it was and that's, and that's your kind of maintenance calories that have gone up by that much. And there's an episode I did not long ago and you know it was, uh, inspired by you on what to do with a slow metabolism, because people compare their metabolisms to others and unfortunately that that that can be very difficult when your metabolism is low. But you've got to compare it to yourself of the past, right, and it sounds like you've. That's one concrete change that you've noticed. What are some other in the last two or three years concrete changes that you've noticed?
Allan: 4:23
Chest size, arm size, strength, concrete changes, I think, in terms of coaching, in terms of everything that we've touched upon, I think one thing is that my sleep hygiene has been a lot better. I definitely have a sleep routine and I get six to seven and a half fish hours at night, I'd say. Physically, my legs are solid. Sometimes I sit in a chair and my jeans are stretched and my legs are all swollen, and it's not fat.
Philip Pape: 4:59
It's swole, man, it's swole.
Allan: 5:01
Right. So I'm like what did I do in the gym to deserve these legs today? So my forearms are stronger. One thing so through training, the consistency and variety of exercises that I've done over the past couple of years have strengthened my weakest parts. So my forearms used to always give way. Now they don't. My adductor muscles used to give me issues, but I've learned to warm up and I've learned to be smart and wise about the weight that I apply for myself and when. So these are all changes that some of it's mindfulness, but it translates into physicality, if that makes sense.
Philip Pape: 5:45
A hundred percent, and I didn't mean to limit concrete to just physical, right, because there are concrete mental changes which we're going to dive into. Some of that I want to get into it, and that's actually a good segue, because you wrote me something that I'm really curious about that you recognize your feeling of being fat, because you acknowledge that sometimes you feel that way because, for whatever reason, as actually a fallacy, despite needing to drop some body fat, maybe objectively, and so I think this is a very mature self-awareness about this mental lag that we wanted to talk about today, this mental lag behind the physical transformation, and maybe it'll always be there, right, we're not saying that it's a good or bad thing and it's going to just go away. How are you processing that disconnect between the two?
Allan: 6:31
It gives me a. It gives me a more comfortable resting place, so to speak. Um, like a more comfortable and safer foundation. So, even though I definitely have belly fat, without a doubt, all right, um, and I have some adipose tissue I always joke around with my trainers. I'm strong underneath this layer, you know. But seriously, um. So, in terms of in terms of the question, um, it gives me a safe platform to work for. Medically, I definitely would benefit to lose another 10 pounds. That's not, it's not a whole lot, but my doctor be specific on that, yeah okay, what do you mean?
Allan: 7:11
my doctor said that when I was 172, when I saw him and he said alan, he goes if you lose five percent, I think. He said then certain markers that you have that are very minimal, but but they will go away. Will organ fat, like liver fat, stuff like that? He said you're very minimal. He said, but if you lose, get down to 160, they won't be, it'll be gone. And then if you lose and if you had other scarring issues or anything else which I don't have, if he gave me another number to go to, he said, but this 160, he said, would be the place that he would want to see me. Similarly, my cardiologist likes me at that weight as well.
Allan: 7:52
My bariatric doctor is another story. Last time I saw him he said Alan, he goes. You can't go by the scale, he said. He said Alan. He said you know he goes. Yes, you can lose some weight. You definitely have gained some weight, but some of that is muscle. He said, ideally, I'd like to see you like closer in the lower one sixties. You know that's kind of where his mind is. He said, but you have to also. The bottom line is that you have to see your body composition. He said that's going to determine what scale of weight you end up at.
Philip Pape: 8:22
That is the biggest misconception we have to deal with on on this show. I think in in general in the fitness industry. Right Is that a dichotomy between weight and health and where there's sometimes a correlation for sure?
Philip Pape: 8:38
Like if you go from 400 pounds to 200 pounds, I don't care how you did it. If you've lost a bunch of muscle you're probably going to be far healthier. Um, regardless, like there's, there's cases where that's necessary and then there's other cases, like yours, where you're kind of in the optimization point here where, honestly, you probably right now fitter than you know 95% of guys your age, I mean I don't know what percent, if you've looked at percentiles of your blood work or anything you've got to be up there.
Allan: 9:08
My blood work is fine, my blood work is good, my blood work is fine. Yeah, my testosterone is actually in there as well. I mean, I, I'm, I'm okay, just um, genetics, so cholesterol issues, you know, like there are things, there are markers that I need to be aware of, um, just based on family history and my own history, um, and my a1C is still low, you know, it's like 5.3, you know that's all that. That doesn't move too much. So I'm, I'm, I'm good, um, so, so that's it. So I feel like I definitely want to drop to 160. I will feel better in my skin, for sure. Phillip, I'm five four. 10 pounds on a five four frame is pretty decent. You know, in terms of, in terms of me, where my fat is, I definitely see a difference.
Philip Pape: 9:48
A hundred percent. If I didn't know you and you said, and you told me your height and weight, I would you know. I would generally say, for, like, let's say, younger guy in his twenties and thirties who's 5'9", you'd want him to be packing on some muscle and pushing 200, but then leaning out to like 180 or something like that. Right, in general, that's what a lot of guys want to be. So, to want to be 160, 170, um, given your history, given your you know age and everything else passes the sniff test. You know what I mean. Like it's not like. I know you, I see you, you're, you're, you're like a stocky, muscular guy. Now.
Philip Pape: 10:20
You know, what I mean. That is a compliment and everybody's different, right, everybody's different. So before we get into that situation about what you're doing now, what's working, what's not working, just one real quick thing to tie our last history from a couple or our conversation from a couple of years ago emotional eating. You've said that your relationship with food has become so much easier. You're not avoiding carbs, you love meal prepping. You're posting all the time like wonderful recipes and things like that and helping others in the community too, like here's what you can do, here's some ideas. How has this supported what you're doing and become kind of more positive with your health, the idea of food and your relationship with food?
Allan: 11:49
So emotional eating really doesn't go away. It's more of an understanding of, of everything, Um, in terms of. Can you clarify the question again?
Philip Pape: 11:58
It was a very badly worded question, so there's a lot of avenues.
Allan: 12:02
I could take, but what would you like me to talk about, exactly?
Philip Pape: 12:06
I would like you to talk about how the shift in your relationship with food has supported your success over the last two years.
Allan: 12:13
Oh, yes, yes, let's go with that. That's it, baby. So, yes, so my relationship with food has supported me. I've learned how to eat again, philip. Okay, I've learned that I could have my sourdough bread as long as it's sliced and pushed and cooked, and I'm not eating half a loaf, although I could eat a half a loaf of salad dough bread. You know, it's not a big deal, but in the general scheme of things, it's not a practice. So so, to be honest, I love going food shopping.
Allan: 12:43
Um, I love meal prep. Um, it's a, it's a form of creative nurturing, even though my recipes are kind of standard, um, the fact that I can take a Sunday morning and meal prep, um, just a whole array of different things fish, chicken, my, my eggs and egg scramble with vegetables. Um, sweet potatoes, if I, if I want potatoes during the week. Um, you know, it's just, it's just a nice nurturing thing. I enjoy food. I don't look at food as as something to fill a void. I look at it in terms of a physical need and sometimes training, which is another subject we can get into. Sometimes my training dictates my desire for food more than my emotionality does. Now, if that Does that make sense to you, yeah, You're saying food.
Philip Pape: 13:37
it isn't filling an emotional void anymore. It's a practical thing for your body, for your training, for your needs, for your nutrition, and you enjoy the nurturing aspect of making it.
Allan: 13:48
Right. But I will say this that there are times when I'm taxed. For example, if a relative is in the hospital and those vending machines at Lorna Dunes are calling me, it's like all I want to do is have a Lorna Dunes package. All I want is you know. But then I go to the machine and I look at all the garbage in the machine and I was like, do I really want this? And I look at all the garbage in the machine and I was like, do I really want this? Let me wait a half an hour.
Allan: 14:15
Go to the cafeteria downstairs and they have like chickpea salads with arugula and they have other things that I could eat instead of running to the vending machine. So if I'm hungry and I feel like I want to eat emotionally or physically at that moment in the hospital, emotionally or physically at that moment in the hospital I will try to make the best choices that will fill my gut, satisfy my need to eat something, but do it in the realm of adequate nutrition instead of Lorna Doon cookies Not that there's anything wrong with Lorna Doon.
Philip Pape: 14:45
No, no, no, yeah, yeah, I had a music teacher in high school who loved them the Lorna Doon cookie, the shortbread but what you're, what you're, what I'm hearing is you've, over time, and after doing the work, you've gotten to a place where you make choices that are aligned with what you want. And it's not always what somebody on the outside would call the perfect choice, cause there's no such thing. It's the best choice available to you in the moment. And we were kind of talking about that, about all or nothing, thinking earlier.
Allan: 15:12
Yes, that's what it sounds like. Yeah, nope, that was a great summation. You're absolutely on point with that.
Philip Pape: 15:17
Yes, it's a modicum of control that you didn't have before, and really anyone listening that's what we're trying to get to is like how do you have control over the situation in some way more than you do today?
Allan: 15:27
Right A lot of times. I'll, I'll bring, I'll, I'll bring, I'll cook up. If I know I'm going to be the hospital that week for or for a few days, I'll boil up a dozen hard boiled eggs and I'll have those to you know in the hospital. They're ready to go and transportable. So it's just, it's a matter. You're right, so you brought that back to me because it is a matter of making choices.
Philip Pape: 15:49
Um, yeah, yeah, so that's good. So this kind of sets the foundation. Now you alluded to a weight and a body composition goal. What are you? Just just give us a brief overview of what are you doing now. That's, that's kind of working, and feel free to mention anything that you feel is not working. Just high level with your overall routine.
Allan: 16:06
Okay, okay, what's working is my workout in the gym. Um, I did about three, four months of iron clad built on two pounds of muscle. Um, really, you know, through it, through it a scan that you know might be accurate. Might not be, but at least, um, there's some visible muscle growth.
Philip Pape: 16:27
And now I said two pounds, two pounds. That's good and you already had a good foundation. And just so the listener knows Ironclad, it's like an undulating wave-based, volume-based program that I kind of stole from Alex Bromley Just so people know what Ironclad is Okay.
Allan: 16:42
So now I'm training a little differently. I'm training with a trainer and it's more about, I don't know, hypertrophy, it's more about um, you know, hypertrophy it's more about um, going to failure with 15 reps type of deal. Okay, um, and doing, doing like 10 sets a week on a, on a muscle group. You know, that's that same paradigm, but just it's making me hungry as anything. Okay, so, so, so. The gym is working really well, really well. My arms, I mean. I feel the physicality, I feel safe and I feel worked. However, I leave the gym, man, and I'm like where's my bet? Where's my apricots? Where's my carbs? Where's my this, where's my that? And it's like I've got to reign that in. That is where my difficulty lies right now.
Philip Pape: 17:33
Do you feel like the change is strictly from the training approach or the fact that you've been in a deficit?
Allan: 17:43
Both. I think that my deficit based upon my new maintenance, philip and this is something you know you can eyeball and we could discuss so like, instead of having a 1400 or 1500 maintenance, my maintenance is now pushing probably over 1600. By the time macro factor catches up, the way it's going up every week, I'm going to end up around 1650, I think. So in that regard, that 1100, that darn 1100 or 1150 that I see in terms of my goal at 0.8 pounds a week might be too stiff.
Philip Pape: 18:21
Isn't that amazing. Like that is fun. That is a phenomenon that I want people to understand. The hunger assuming it's true physiological hunger because for you it probably is at this point you've normalized your signals. You eat quite a healthy dietary pattern overall. That's satiating is pretty much just telling you you need to eat more. The question is, do you kind of fight it to maintain a bigger deficit or do you rise with it a bit to maintain what you were kind of used to? It gives you a few more options, but we always think in terms of sustainability. So are you letting it rise or are you fighting it?
Allan: 18:57
I'm letting it rise.
Philip Pape: 18:59
Okay, and you're still having the same progress because the deficit is the same.
Allan: 19:03
I'm losing weight. I'm losing like last week. Last week I definitely ate in my in maintenance.
Philip Pape: 19:08
Maybe if my true maintenance is about 1650, I'm eating 100 calories a little over that or around there no more than 100 calories up and I'm losing half a pound a week. So you met because you mentioned. One of your struggles now after bulking is that your brain telling you you want to eat more because you were eating more. Yes, and yet you need to be in a deficit. This sounds like it's maybe helping.
Allan: 19:31
It might be Looking at the new data. Philip, you're absolutely correct. I'm glad we're talking about this, because I kind of felt that maybe you would see it that way. I envision our conversation talking about this. So yeah, so it's helping.
Philip Pape: 19:48
Let's take a step back, okay, but hold on, let's take a step back. Um how long were you at maintenance after the bulk?
Allan: 19:54
Oh, by default, or by or by no, seriously, I would say, I would say um a few weeks, I may, I, after my bulk, I didn't, I didn't I, it must've been. It was a while, it was a period of at least three weeks.
Philip Pape: 20:13
Was it long enough to feel normalized at that maintenance?
Allan: 20:15
Oh, yes, 100%.
Philip Pape: 20:16
Okay, okay, that's what I was getting at. Again, sometimes when you switch fast which I've done, just because I'm impatient when you switch quickly, you could really throw off the hunger signals and then have that issue.
Allan: 20:29
But what kicked off my expenditure rising, oddly enough, is, I mean, it is summer, so I'm basically I'm gardening, I'm out a little more. I'm getting I'm definitely getting steps in um is the the um fat loss, rapid fat loss challenge. My expenditure during that, during those two weeks, rose like 30 points. I mean just the graph went like that during the during the rapid fat loss phase, and I think it was in tandem with my increase in activity.
Philip Pape: 20:58
Okay, yeah, I was going to say that you wouldn't expect that and also it was too short a period, but that makes sense if I had more activity Unless man. We're discovering weird little mechanisms all the time regarding refeeds and how some people on a certain refeed schedule can get some little boost in their metabolism, but I don't want to overthink that, so it's not overthinking, but I but I definitely think that there was a something cool that happened during that rapid fat loss phase where I lost weight, um, but my expenditure was going up.
Allan: 21:28
I was still lifting, I was still, you know, it was still working. After that, I have been on maintenance since, even though technically I'm on a deficit. Some days I'm in a deficit, but if you look at my weekly calories, they're averaging about 1,600, 1,700 calories a day.
Philip Pape: 21:48
So are you on pace at that 0.8 pounds a week.
Allan: 21:51
I'm at point. I've been losing a half a pound a week, half a day. So are you on pace at that? 0.8 pounds a week. I'm at point. I've been losing a half a pound a week.
Philip Pape: 21:53
Half a pound. Okay, so I know you want to get another like nine pounds off and at 0.8,. That would take like 11, 12 weeks, but if you assume less, it could take 16. Uh, and it is June already, so let's talk realistic expectations, cause I think you mentioned something like August.
Allan: 22:11
The end of August, yeah, but that's only eight weeks.
Philip Pape: 22:14
Oh, end of August, that's 10 weeks. Yeah, you're kind of in the ballpark. I mean it's not too far. If you ended up at like 163, would that be at the end of the world?
Allan: 22:22
Not at all.
Philip Pape: 22:23
Okay, okay.
Allan: 22:24
It would be the world. Okay, so it's a stretch goal, that's good, it's a stretch goal. 160 is a stretch goal, 162 is fine. Also, I want to be as far away as from 170 for medical reasons, not physique reasons, although that's a separate issue. I got it.
Philip Pape: 22:41
I got it.
Allan: 22:41
I got it. I want to be there.
Philip Pape: 22:44
Okay, so there's some really good directional things going on with you. Obviously, your expenditure going up, potentially due to your NEAT, you're at a modestly aggressive deficit. I wouldn't say it's too aggressive. I mean, I know your history. At half, even half a pound to 0.8 pounds, as long as you're hovering at 11, 1200 calories or more, that makes sense. And then are there any, given your past fat loss phases, do you foresee any type of resistance or expenditure drop that you would predict from the past?
Allan: 23:17
No, not at this time of the year and definitely not Good.
Philip Pape: 23:21
Okay, yeah, and is there any other lever? Are there any other levers we haven't already pulled, because you're pretty solid all around the board with your habits.
Allan: 23:31
That's a good question. Yes, there is. What is it? There might be a couple, and it's a good question.
Philip Pape: 23:39
See, this is a coaching man. I don't tell you what to do, I just ask you to tell yourself what to do.
Allan: 23:44
Yeah, but the levers are there. The levers are there. So the levers that I have been picking up are steps you have spoken on some of your podcasts Other people speak about man. If you don't get those steps in, it's a big game changer. Those 10,000 to 12,000 steps are are game changers in terms of, in terms of expenditure, in terms of um, weight loss. So that's number one. So I I've pulled that lever recently even more so Um. The other level level lever is Philip. I have a hard time with grazing. I have, and this is this is not a physical lever, this is not an action level lever, this is a strategy lever that needs to be addressed. That I have a problem with. I have a problem with grazing and that's and I could easily keep my expenditure to 1400. You know, if I had to be at 1400, I mean that my expenditure, my deficit at 1400, I could do it. But it's the grazing that that tweaks it into maintenance and and and takes me off target a little.
Philip Pape: 24:52
Okay, let's, let's put a pin in that for a second Steps. You mentioned as a lover you're more active. Do you have any long stretches of sitting?
Allan: 25:01
I try not to Uh, but yes, I think probably I would say but yes, I think probably I would say living room time maybe three hours a day. Yes, you know, in the morning when I get up I'm sitting at my desk going through emails and everything with coffee for about an hour and then I get to the gym. So I would say I'm sitting, for I would say I would say I'm sitting maybe four, four hours a day for sure.
Philip Pape: 25:31
Is it mostly contiguous or do you take breaks?
Allan: 25:34
I do take breaks, I go out and I garden and I do things. My watch says time to stand. But yeah, at times, you know and there's also also I'm up really early in the morning. So some days if I'm up, if I'm up if I go to sleep early, I'm up really early in the morning. So some days if I'm up, if I go to sleep early, I wake up early and sometimes I'll take a 45-minute nap in the afternoon.
Philip Pape: 26:03
So late afternoon I might take like a half an hour snooze or something like that, but basically so that's part of my resting of the day, so, um, okay, it's good, I'm not, yeah, and, by the way, I'm not going to take away naps. Naps are great.
Allan: 26:18
So that's it. So that's the um. Go ahead, philip.
Philip Pape: 26:21
I was just going to say like so this is a big tease for the audience. The next episode after this is about walking breaks and how impactful it is on muscle protein synthesis, as well as like insulin sensitivity and how your body uses nutrients, and so I always think, if there are windows on a daily basis where you could take breaks like every half hour, throw those in. Add some reminders, do a little. It's an easy thing to tweak in your day to day and who knows if it'll have an impact on your metabolism, right.
Allan: 26:50
Yeah, I mean, I was thinking about bringing the elliptical into the living room.
Philip Pape: 26:55
Yeah, yeah Well.
Allan: 26:56
I was asking you to the.
Philip Pape: 26:57
Facebook group about those elliptical on the ground things, because I think there's something to be said about, like blood flow. Blood flow is a big piece of it, honestly. Okay, so let's talk about grazing. So I know you're pretty, I'll say, advanced in terms of the psychology of some of this stuff. Like, okay, what's step one? When we have an issue with emotional eating, it's the trigger, right, identify the root trigger or the cause. What's your thought on that? Like emotional, environmental, physiological what causes you to graze?
Allan: 27:27
The feeling like I need to eat because I'm lifting weights.
Philip Pape: 27:31
That's an interesting one because there could be some reality to it, right, like genuine hunger, your protein is pretty high, right.
Allan: 27:41
Yes.
Philip Pape: 27:42
Okay, and what's the timing of this grazing?
Allan: 27:45
Because grazing to me seems like all day, but potentially there's Okay, so I usually have lunch about 11.30, 12 o'clock, and by two o'clock I want more protein and carbohydrates, so I'll have something then and then I'll eat around five o'clock.
Philip Pape: 28:04
Okay, when's the grazing occur?
Allan: 28:06
The grazing occurs around two. Oh, grazing two to three, two to four, and then from six, 30 till eight, 30, if I don't stay out of the kitchen.
Philip Pape: 28:19
Okay, and do you like, do you use meal timing, like timed meals is what I mean, like do you have a schedule for your meals?
Allan: 28:27
Unofficially yes.
Philip Pape: 28:29
Unofficially, which which implies there's some wheel room. In other words, I'm going through my brain of like what are you not already doing? That could be a simple um tool to kind of help with this Cause. I again, you know, you know my philosophy on emotional eating is start simple, start small, start easy to try to address it before going deeper and deeper into the psychology. You're an expert in psychology, right, it's in your background and I'm still learning about this stuff, but honestly, that helps. So if you had that spacing awareness via a structured eating window or schedule, could that help?
Allan: 29:06
That would help, but it's not the answer. I think I'm listening to you, I'm listening to what you're saying and in my mind I'm going through this idea that sometimes I think that what I was thinking maybe psychologically if macro factor is telling me that I need to be around 1200 calories, in reality I may need to be around 1400, let's say for a deficit or 1300, let's say, okay, stop there, stop there.
Philip Pape: 29:38
So are you saying that the grazing has only started recently because of that?
Allan: 29:42
Yes.
Philip Pape: 29:42
Okay, okay, then that sounds more logistical. I guess what I would say is do the homework of eating more, which isn't a hard assignment, and report back on whether the grazing goes away, because if that's all it is, that's real hunger.
Allan: 29:58
Right. So with the grazing I'm still losing a half a pound a week. So it's just very interesting. So here I have the macro factor numbers in front of me and you know that I honor, know, I honor that, you know. But then at the same time it's like darn, you know, I want a nectarine, like I want a nectarine and a banana, you know. Or I'm craving like fruit, and then I'll have chicken in the fridge and I'll say you know what, I'm going to have three or four ounces of chicken now and I'll have the fish for dinner. So, like, like, so my body is kind of telling me like I need those 200 calories extra during the afternoon.
Philip Pape: 30:36
Yes, and this is why I'm asking you to be more intentional Now. I think I think the I think the quote unquote answer since you said that like that's not the I think the answer is to be intentional about what you want to do. Do you want to add the calories in deliberately? And then you just be intentional, like you know how to do, or and we went, we talked about this earlier like do you want to fight it or not? And it's okay, if you want to fight it, you know we could do that, in which case we're talking about satiation, like all the things you know, already know and probably have built in um, having a pre-planned snack budget so that when the craving comes, you can flex into it. Gamifying habit stacking, you know, taking a pause and drinking water, right, like all the techniques right.
Philip Pape: 31:16
But maybe you don't need any of them. If you just say, no, I'm going to eat 200 more calories, and this is what is going to happen every day, you know. Does that make sense?
Allan: 31:25
It makes sense and it makes sense. Yes, it does make sense, it makes sense and it makes sense. Yes, it does make sense. I'm going to refigure my macro factor and see what it tells me and I'm going to discuss it. I think the expenditure, because it's still on the increase, is cutting me short a little bit. It's lagging, yeah, it's lagging, it's lagging.
Philip Pape: 31:48
Yeah, it's lagging.
Allan: 31:49
It's lagging. I think that's what's happening and that's why I'm hungry.
Philip Pape: 31:52
Okay and that's a good one. The good thing you mentioned there because traditionally in a bulking phase I see this all the time right, where your expenditures estimated at a number and it's rising pretty fast, and so because macro factors in a lagging algorithm based on historical data, it's not going to give you 300 more calories overnight, it's going to just titrate you up. But if your metabolism is going up too fast, you never catch up and then you're always hungry and that's why I would tell clients like I need to eat 200 more calories pronto, so it can happen in a deficit, like you as well, if your expenditure is going up, and so I would just split the difference. I would say, okay, if you've been grazing and getting in 200 more calories, maybe deliberately add 100 more calories and kind of split that difference right now and then let the app kind of bring you up on top of that.
Allan: 32:41
That makes wonderful sense, Philip. Okay, yeah, that's wonderful, it makes wonderful sense, and I was thinking, I was, I was, I was waiting to discuss this with you and I wanted to hear your, your decision on this and your wisdom on this, and you are so in sync with what feels right to me.
Philip Pape: 32:59
Good. I mean, my other option was going to be a detox juice cleanse combined with fasting. So I'm like, if one doesn't work, we'll try the other I'll take out my Omega, my Omega juicer, we'll try the coffee enema, right yeah.
Allan: 33:13
No, seriously no, but I was, I was, I I was looking forward to this coaching call and I wanted to hear your solution and you just said it and it's beautiful, it makes total sense and it fits in once again. It fits into what? And it fits in once again. It fits into what I intuitively know about what I'm doing and your eyeballing everything and discussion really was right on point with me, so I appreciate it.
Philip Pape: 33:42
Would you say that's your biggest bottleneck at the moment?
Allan: 33:46
Yeah, 100%, oh, 100%, okay, say that's your biggest bottleneck at the moment. Or yeah, 100, oh, 100, um, the other things are just just um. Last summer I was in the hospital with my dad pretty much from the end of june all the way through, probably till october or november september, you know. So through september. So this summer I decided that I'm gonna enjoy the summer. My, my dad is well, he's stable, everything's good. I'm going to have the summer I didn't have last summer. So I'm out, bicycle riding, I'm walking, seeing friends, doing things you know, instead of being in the hospital every day or every other day. So that's why I'm it's not my why, but it's my conscious way of living right now is to get out and do things and enjoy life.
Philip Pape: 34:32
Which potentially reduces your stress as well.
Allan: 34:36
Yes.
Philip Pape: 34:36
And could also contribute to the physiological change. Not to bring it back to that, I want to acknowledge that you've been through a rough time. It sounds like everything you told me from last year and and you're taking advantage of the, the new environment and situation now. Um, and honestly, that's a makes you a role model, too, for everyone around you. It allows you to support them. Um, the way I see it, so right, it's a very positive thing right, I have family, you know, it's just.
Allan: 35:02
Everything is everything is good. Um, I still have concerns, you know. I still have family responsibilities, but I'm able now to take care of myself. In fact, my father also says he wants, you know, he's expressed multiple times that I need to come take care of myself. If I visit him twice and twice, like you know, if I visit, if I visit him on a monday and I go on again on tuesday, he says why are you here again, alan? He said go home, go home, enjoy your family, enjoy everything. You know you don't have to come every day. So I was like okay, dad, like you're feeling well and you're absolutely correct.
Philip Pape: 35:36
That's nice.
Allan: 35:37
That's nice, you know so. So so it gives me. He wants me to take care of myself. When I, and I tell him, I said Dad, I said Dad. I want to let you know that even though I, even though you know I'm here a lot and I want you to exercise every day, I take, I'm watching what I'm eating, I'm taking really good care of myself because my parents always that was kind of like always ingrained in us to be healthy, take care of ourselves, not at the exclusion of other people, but we should not get sick over taking care of other people other people, but we should not get sick over taking care of other people.
Philip Pape: 36:13
I agree, it's funny. You mentioned that, not to the exclusion of other things. One of our other members I'm not going to name his name just for privacy, but you would know him he sent me an Instagram reel and he's like is this really what people are thinking now? And it was this guy, it was a comedian, stand-up comedian talking about how if a father has big muscles, he must not be a great dad, because the time it takes to be in the gym, he's not using those muscles to play with his kids. And I'm like it's sad, right? No, I get it, because it's the biggest common denominator when it comes to comedy and I totally get it.
Philip Pape: 36:42
I love standup comedy and it's like a relatable thing because 90% of people probably aren't working out, but you you mentioned, you hit it right in the head where no, it's, it's, it's the thing that allows you to show up and be there, um, and that's great. So, okay, I want to, I want to. I want to stay on point now with some of the some of the things you've got going on into the next six months, because we kind of tackled up till now. We talked about your current deficit. I think you also mentioned that after that, you want to maintain and then go into another bulk. Is that right?
Allan: 37:12
Yes.
Philip Pape: 37:12
Cool. Do you think you're going to approach it differently than the last one?
Allan: 37:18
Well, that causes me to pause. That's a great question.
Philip Pape: 37:22
Or should you, or is it going to be exactly the same?
Allan: 37:24
No, no, no, no, I'm going to be wiser. Um, I think I know what a bulk is about now. I know how it, how I feel physiologically, I'm very much in tune with it when I lift weights, like, I'm very much in tune with my body, how it feels, how it responds to the progressive overload and visibly what happens to me. Um, so it's been a while and I think I'm wiser.
Allan: 37:46
This set, this next book, is going to be the maintenance is going to be maintenance and maybe I may do. You know, depending on where my weight stays, I'll be either the lower end or the higher end. But when I bulk, um, it's going to be great because I know the foods that will fuel me and I know, I'll know if I'm gaining too much weight too quickly or actually more fat. I would have to qualify that. I know now what my body starts doing when it gains too much fat over muscle and I'll be able to work with you and play it. You know, every month or every couple of months, say, check in with you and play it. Every month, or every couple of months, check in with you and say this is what's happening, I feel good. Or I may say you know, these extra 300 calories I have might be a little too much for me now and then it's something we can't predict. Let's see what happens.
Philip Pape: 38:47
That is no truer statement for anyone listening who has been, or has never been, through a cut in bulk cycles. Every single one is different and if you try to predict from the past, you're just going to be frustrated because it could be way. And it's not that it's better or worse, it just you respond differently. You're a different person, physically when you start the next cut, and environmentally, and you know all that lifestyle. Tell me what. What would success look like for you in this next bulk?
Allan: 39:15
I'm looking at my biceps right now. Are they nice?
Philip Pape: 39:20
and cut now because I want to get these biceps?
Allan: 39:22
no, seriously, what would it feel, what it would be? Um more health, I think. I think underneath it all, underneath it all ties into my why, or my deeper why, is to keep myself mentally and physically sturdy, um to repair where I've come from and to continue to build solidity in health as I'm approaching my upper 60s. So I think that is where I'd like to be. I'm also, I think, when I envision a bulk filler, I envision doing exercises and movements that are safe, that are taxing, because the bulking is definitely like you want to do those, and I might tap into more strength training at that time with the more calories. And I think that the bulking will also have an effect on my metabolism. Um have an effect on my metabolism, um, I think, as I'm getting older, I think A1C and my family increases and I think that that will continue to offset the um. Any kind of sugar metabolism issues I that may be happening.
Philip Pape: 40:43
Ooh, that's good. Okay, so you've got a lot there. I want to break each one down. You mentioned muscle is health. I don't think you said it literally, but that's what I got from that.
Philip Pape: 40:52
Yes, that's such an important message for anyone listening that okay, if you have excess weight to lose, fine, you can. You can work on that, but also you've got to. You got to have the muscle. Muscle is health, like you said. It makes you sturdy, it helps you connect with the why of being there for your grandchildren enjoying all the years ahead. Because when you say you're approaching the late 60s and I think of the condition of some people in their 70s, again I just have to say congrats, alan, on the work you've put in, because it's demonstrating you've turned back the clock by 15, 20 years where you are right now easily you know what I mean Like you're operating, where, like some 50 year olds who haven't taken care of themselves are. I mean you're operating. Better than that, but you know what.
Philip Pape: 41:34
I'm saying Um, and then you said to re. You said you want to repair where you've come from. I want to dig into that just to one more level deep. What do you mean by that?
Allan: 41:44
Physically, I was 220, was 220 pounds. Um, before I had bariatric surgery, I, I had, I went down to like 160. And when I was in my 40s and then I gained weight, um, when the kids, you know, came to live with us, um, I became daddy again and I cooked and I, who went to the gym, I had that. I was a daddy as I had no time to go to the gym, but I had that I was a daddy. I was like I had no time to go to the gym, but anyways, but eventually I've always, even though it was through being in spin instructor and teaching yoga, I still was always on the, on the bigger size, you know, more of a heavier weight. And then, when they've been so, I, back in 2020, I was, I reached like 220 again and I, I so, in terms of weight, I don't want to go back there. But when I made that statement, philip, that I want to repair, what did you say to me?
Philip Pape: 42:35
Repair where I've come from is what you said.
Allan: 42:38
So my mom passed away. This is a deep why, and I'm sharing this. Maybe it could help somebody. That's the only reason I'm sharing this. My world fell apart. You know, when you have parents and you have arguments and you have, you know, love relationships, but you, you know it's. You know I love my parents, I love my, you know love my mom and we had a wonderful relationship. But when she got sick and she passed away, everything changed. My whole perspective on life changed and my heart broke. I was there when she passed away. She called me to come, called me to come.
Allan: 43:31
So it was like that trauma and working through it is something that I'm realizing. I'm picking up all the pieces now. So by doing the cardio to having fun with sprinting, having fun on a spin bike again, listening to music again, getting out for walks, enjoying family, enjoying life, I'm putting all the pieces together again. So a bulk signifies me going to a next phase of health, of solidity, and putting things back in place and enjoying life with the blessings I mean all around, you know, without getting spiritual or anything. That's just kind of how I. That's it.
Philip Pape: 44:15
So yeah, so you've carried sounds like you've carried your mother's influence with you forward in a meaningful way. It made it really mean something is what I'm hearing and has made it a source of strength and motivation for you. Is that fair?
Allan: 44:24
assessment, yes, and my grandma, my, her mother, mother when I was heavier back in the 1990s. She said to me in the kitchen one day alan, take care of yourself because nobody else will. So so both you know there's. So I've always had a history of you know, of um, I don't know, just just in general. We've always just taking care of of myself. I guess, is a mantra that's in my head Al, take care of yourself, that's it.
Philip Pape: 44:53
That sounds like exactly what you took from it and what you're doing.
Allan: 44:56
I mean you're doing that.
Philip Pape: 44:57
Everybody gets to hear you talk about this and even though we get into nuts and bolts and fun science-y stuff and how to do calorie deficits and everything, at the end of the day I think we're just saying, look, this is our one and only life and we can do something to enjoy it, and the process of doing that can be enjoyable, like, I think, a lot of what you're doing and sharing with the audience about emotional eating and lifting and everything you know. Sure, there's challenges, but it sounds like you've really embraced it. It doesn't sound like someone who's sees this as a form of suffering or a form of sacrifice. You know what I mean. Even though there's, even though it's hard, it's hard in a fulfilling way, right?
Allan: 45:33
And that's.
Philip Pape: 45:34
that's the human struggle. What, what, okay. And then you mentioned this is really great for our older lifters who are worried about injury, and you mentioned doing things that are safe but also taxing. Again, I love that juxtaposition as well, because that's exactly how I would put it. It's like we need to lift heavy as we get older, to support our spine, to support our hormones and health, but people want to do it safely. What does that mean for you?
Allan: 45:58
Form.
Philip Pape: 45:59
Form Okay, form and technique.
Allan: 46:01
Yep Total.
Allan: 46:03
Total form technique and warming up. If there's one thing I could share, no matter what kind of you know, because I'm not you know form, philip. You put on form videos. People can get form videos elsewhere, even in their gym. But the most important thing, I think, as we get older, is the warming up. Okay, I messaged you about a half a year ago or a few months ago about my warm up with squats or warm up with whatever, and I forgot exactly what it was. But and you texted me back your typical warmup, you know type or your suggestions.
Allan: 46:35
So warming up, I think, is really essential, because the one time that I got injured was the time that I pushed through my warmup because I had to take my father to a doctor appointment and I said, oh, I could skip, oh, I could skip. I went up 30 pounds instead of 15. And that's what did it. I was squatting, I was on my way up. It wasn't a crazy amount of weight for other people, but for me it's my beginning of my working weight at 150-pound squat back then and I went from like 120. And also the bar wasn't available, so I was working out in a different place in the gym. So all those things came about and the warm-up failed. I didn't warm up and I pulled my my, my attitude. So I think one thing I I'd like to say I know this was a little rambly everyone needs to warm up and then that you can count your working sets and log them in. But the warmups behind the scene are probably as important as the form, if not more important.
Philip Pape: 47:38
You just inspired me, man, to do a whole episode about this, because I think you hit on some important factors about warming up, and we're talking about warming up with the lift itself. We're not necessarily talking about like cardio or dynamic warm-ups, just literally the lift itself. You mentioned, um, or you alluded to the fact that it helps with injury, with safety, with the feel. I would say that it helps program the movement pattern as well which then kind of gets you into a safe motion before it gets heavier.
Philip Pape: 48:08
And then even, um, you know you're, you're thinking about being distracted and like trying to go too quickly, like that. That's, that's a mindfulness thing. We've got to understand that this is a important thing. We're doing, we're lifting a lot of weight and we want to, but you got to feel things out. Also, if you're recovering from an injury, I've, I've definitely told clients to warm up more, because then if it's, if they're at the point where they're recovered enough, they'll, they'll slowly feel that soreness or pain like dissipate as they warm up.
Allan: 48:36
Yes.
Philip Pape: 48:37
Because you've got that residual pain. Sometimes it's more of a mental pain than anything, but if it still hurts, you'll catch it early in the warmup. You could say, all right, I need to make an adjustment.
Allan: 48:46
One other thing that I want to hit, philip, everything you just mentioned is right on point and in my mind I just thought about something else that perhaps warming up is a form check as well. It's a period of time where you're using manageable weight and you can get that proper body angle. If you're doing, if you're doing you know barbell rows, standing barbell rows you want to get that perfect angle and that diagonal movement into your belly with the bar. You know, because you're kind of like movement and keeping your hands in a certain so like when you're using lighter weights, you can definitely get your movement intact.
Philip Pape: 49:28
Figured out oh, a hundred percent, cause it's going to be a little clumsy that first warmup set. Even if you're skilled at this, you're like kind of like getting it just right. And then you can say, oh, wait a minute, I'm not tucking the elbows, well, I'm not doing this, or whatever, and you can just yeah, exactly.
Allan: 49:42
And you know what's crazy, philip, that sometimes it's these little nuances of movement that make all the difference.
Philip Pape: 49:47
It's true, it's true, oh yeah, I preach that to the cows. Come home and every, every movement has has it's a range of things you could do.
Philip Pape: 49:55
One more thing you mentioned was you talked about A1C. For those listening, this Friday's episode is coming out with Ben Zeal really great guy, I mean, he and I are going to be friends I could tell already just from having recorded one show together and he has type one diabetes and it's all about blood sugar management combined with nutrition and training. And we get into A1C and you mentioned how building muscle we were talking about your bulk just now, alan and you talked about A1C and I want people to understand the connection is that having more muscle increases insulin sensitivity and blood sugar management to the point where my belief at this point, alan, is, unless you have a lot of weight to lose, just being active and lifting, you really don't have to worry about blood sugar. You really don't. I mean, eat balanced meals, eat nutritious food, but don't worry about it. You don't even need to measure it unless you've got some specific issue like diabetes or something. Do you agree with that or do you find that? Is that what you meant by dementia?
Allan: 50:49
you can see. Yeah, I agree, I agree. My cardiologist told me Alan, he goes. I can't believe I have diabetes and to look at him you would never know. But he said Alan, he said I have. You know he was diagnosed with diabetes and he said you know what? You know what was told to me lift weights it is, it's the solution.
Philip Pape: 51:09
He said.
Allan: 51:09
He said alan, he goes. I have a trainer now and I'm lifting weights, so so it.
Philip Pape: 51:14
Muscle is a sink of for glucose yeah, it's a sink, and the act of the act of training it also uses the, the glucose and moving and moving and not being sedentary I, I'm going to look forward to that.
Allan: 51:27
Yes, I'm going to look forward to that, but, yes, I definitely feel that, um, the whole constellation, the nutritional approach, plus the lifting weights, plus my walking, it all combines to to create a constellation of good health markers, you know, or better health markers than they would be if you weren't, if I wasn't doing this. Yeah, so, even though I still have some health markers, they've gone down. Um, I still have things, you know. I mean, you know, um, there are things I have to watch out for, which is you know that that you know, everyone has medical history, um, but it's nowhere near where it could be if I wasn't, you know. Does that make sense?
Philip Pape: 52:10
Oh, yeah, no, a hundred percent. A hundred percent, and people have to understand it. So I think your experience today, that you've shared what you've gone through, what you're going to go through, tells the story itself, makes the convincing case for it. I don't think we have to like say to the listener, hey, you need to start lifting weights. Like, just just take, do what Alan's doing, man, and you're going to be healthy, is my take on that. Just start where you're at what feels most actionable now going forward, like what's your biggest takeaway today?
Allan: 52:40
Oh man, my biggest takeaway is having a breather and saying I don't need to think about 1,200 calories, maybe I can go to 14. And that, to me, gives me such a relief because you know me, philip, I'm so fastidious, so I try to be fastidious. You know, and I was losing it because my you know I was losing that, that you know that clarity in my focus.
Philip Pape: 53:01
Confidence and clarity. Yes, I was losing the clarity.
Philip Pape: 53:05
You know, if someone's listening who has never tracked their food before and has no idea what to do, and they're frustrated, that's what you're, that's the same thing, even though, even if you're not as advanced as where Alan is like, just tracking your food and knowing what your expenditure is gives you the clarity at least know. Oh, here's why I'm not losing weight or not getting the thing I want, and and not not to let it, you know, make you feel bad, but to give you data to act from. So, and here's why I feel like I'm fighting with hunger.
Philip Pape: 53:32
And it's your body, biofeedback telling you what to do, and it's not because you eat Oreos and Lorna Dunes all the time and that's why you're hungry. It's you've got everything dialed in and your body is actually saying no, I'm hungry, and the data is now correlating, giving you the confidence that, okay, I'm not going to balloon up and wait.
Allan: 53:49
So that's number one. I just said one man.
Philip Pape: 53:51
I just said your biggest. What are you doing here? That's it. No, I'm just kidding. What's the next?
Allan: 53:55
one. No, no, there's no real next one. This just reminds me of how our coaching is so valuable and so informative. Just to be able to discuss this, come to a reasonable foundation to build upon for the next step, for the next couple of months, knowing what's going to happen in the fall, it's a beautiful feeling, a solid feeling of now I know what I'm doing and both of my feet are on the ground and I'm ready to go.
Philip Pape: 54:32
Good, that's what we want, alan. That's why we're doing these calls Um, and then people can hear what the process looks like as well. You know? Just just so, everyone knows this is a. This is a prize that Alan won, let's say, as a result of a challenge he did. He did the um. That was the rapid fat loss challenge, right? Uh, that he won't, he won't. He was voted the winner and we do these challenges and if you're voted the winner, you get a free call like this or you can do it for the record, for the podcast.
Philip Pape: 54:52
But more importantly is um the, the support that you get. Like Alan mentioned, sometimes you need a third party to talk to you and you know, if you don't have a lot of money and you want to join a free Facebook group, we have that. Come in and say hello and talk about your issues. We were just having a chat in the Facebook group chat today. Somebody was asking about protein and they said they were eating amino acids and I kind of challenged them and said you know you may be wasting your money. You could just eat real food and get great results and you know, it's those little things that people just need that third-party perspective. If you want a little more, if you want more custom support, check out Physique University. It's two weeks free. Alan's been there for a while because he doesn't want to leave. We've got coaching calls, you've got nutrition plan, you've got workout programs. You've had a lot of great people. Alan, is there anything else you want to add about that or anything else before we sign off?
Allan: 55:51
No, wlpu is a great forum, for we share ideas, we share support, we share recipes. It's just. This is a great place, it's a great forum. It's one of the things I check out in the morning while I'm having my coffee and see if anybody posted from the previous evening. It's just a great way, great structure, and it's a great way to access some of your coaching too, philip.
Philip Pape: 56:08
Yeah, for sure. No, I mean, I'm in there every day. You guys can tag me, we've got the courses, we've got all the fun stuff, but I anyway not to make this a pitch for it, but that is how Alan ended up on the show today and I want to thank you everybody for checking this out. Alan, thank you so much for being open about things. You know you're great at digging in to the details, but also tying it to your why and tying it to the history of what's important to you, and this is an honest conversation that is going to help people. So I thank you so much.
Allan: 56:35
You're welcome, you're welcome, and thank you for everything you do for the, for the fitness community.
